[HN Gopher] Hacking ADHD: Strategies for the modern developer
___________________________________________________________________
Hacking ADHD: Strategies for the modern developer
Author : vberg
Score : 584 points
Date : 2023-11-15 09:15 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ledger.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ledger.com)
| fwsgonzo wrote:
| A very good writeup of how it works. Especially the perfection or
| nothing thing. I found that Trello helps because the stickers you
| create can be very simple, and I always need a reminder.
| rlemaitre wrote:
| Thanks. I tried Trello, but it wasn't a good fit for me. I
| prefer using Todoist and I totally relate to the need of
| reminders
| icepat wrote:
| I've been in the diagnostic process for ADHD twice. First time I
| ended up losing all the paperwork, and getting kicked out of it.
| In the time between the first and second attempt, I developed
| PTSD which essentially stalled the second diagnostic as they
| could not cleanly differentiate between the two. For some reason,
| getting a diagnosis has been nearly impossible for me, despite
| each diagnostician saying "ADHD is highly likely", and the PTSD
| was a downstream effect of untreated ADHD.
|
| I'm curious of any other developers have found effective, non-
| medication based ways to manage this.
| 83457 wrote:
| How does your PTSD present?
|
| Have you tried meditation and breathing exercises?
| icepat wrote:
| Yes to both. I also wear an Apple Watch with the main display
| being a heart rate graph to monitor my stress levels over the
| day. I tend to average a resting rate of 100 bpm during
| periods of higher stress, and between 60-70 in periods of
| lower stress. Longer periods of high BPM indicates that I
| need to take a break.
|
| The PTSD presents mostly in incredibly severe trust issues,
| periodic nightmares related to events, depersonalization,
| sleep problems, and paranoia. I also have an absurdly
| overblown startle response that looks more like a panic
| attack than someone being jump-startled. If I'm startled
| "badly enough", it triggers a panic attack. "Badly enough"
| can simply be someone tapping me on the shoulder when I
| didn't notice them coming up behind me.
| 83457 wrote:
| If you haven't already, you should absolutely seek help and
| medication for the non-ADHD issues. It sounds like they are
| seriously affecting your life.
| sureglymop wrote:
| I feel incredibly lucky that my parents got me evaluated for
| ADHD and Autism when I was still a minor. It's much much harder
| as an adult. There is a lot of stigmatization and also this
| thought of "oh you got through school, oh you got this far" for
| adults with ADHD.
|
| I used to take medication and it helped me a lot. Now however I
| have come off of them completely. The side effects can be
| devastating. In my case, I developed strong insomnia as
| amphetamines are much stronger than caffeine. Sleeplessness
| over a longer period can be very mentally deteriorating.
|
| The advice I can give is to actively seek interaction with
| others suffering from the same, actively accept and ask for all
| accommodations and help, give yourself enough time for what you
| need to do and don't compare your experience to the
| neurotypical one. It is different and it's a matter of coping
| and accepting oneself and ones disadvantages as a normal part
| of life.
|
| Another thing I often say to people in my therapy group is that
| they should also be politically proactive about their
| condition. Things like healthcare covered medication, ensured
| accommodations etc and the fight against stigmatization are
| political by nature.
| icepat wrote:
| > The advice I can give is to actively seek interaction with
| others suffering from the same, actively accept and ask for
| all accommodations and help, give yourself enough time for
| what you need to do and don't compare your experience to the
| neurotypical one. It is different and it's a matter of coping
| and accepting oneself and ones disadvantages as a normal part
| of life.
|
| This has been my approach at this point. I've had to accept
| that I will likely never get medication, or even a proper
| diagnosis. My family actively fought every teacher who
| suggested I had ADHD, and there were several. Very honestly,
| the only reason I have sought diagnosis is to get
| accommodation which would let me work within the focus
| patterns ADHD causes.
|
| My closest friend has ADHD, and my partner is in the process
| of getting an ASD diagnosis. The majority of my time is spent
| around neuroodivergent types.
|
| Simply having people around you who share your experience is
| incredibly helpful, since you can talk to them freely and be
| understood. I've given up trying to discuss the experience
| with people who are NT simply because the understanding that
| the challenges I face are not just inconvenient just isn't
| there.
| hughesjj wrote:
| >This has been my approach at this point. I've had to
| accept that I will likely never get medication, or even a
| proper diagnosis.
|
| I don't see how the rest of your comment follows from this
| quote. Don't give up bud, its always worth trying. You can
| simply not take meds if you don't want to.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| > don't compare your experience to the neurotypical one
|
| I can't help myself from doing this, but I am not sure if I
| truly should want to stop making such a comparison. I find it
| leaves me feeling like I am inferior or sub-human. I have
| ADHD, and so what? ADHD can make things more challenging, but
| not impossible (within the realms of reason).
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| The fact you lost the paperwork should be a pretty damn good
| indicator and this part made me laugh out loud. I'm glad to
| have been simply diagnosed by someone who just accepted my
| story as true. All this talk about diagnosis is just bizarre.
| It's not a 0-1 sort of thing, they have to trust you.
| Unfortunately you have to be confident and assertive because
| they will gas-light you in the name of being 'careful'.
|
| Sports can be an important piece of the puzzle in the ADHD
| lifestyle. Especially high-intensity, game-like, engaging ones
| that you can identify with and be good at. I swear my executive
| self-control and discipline have improved since I started
| training tennis several years ago.
| atcalan wrote:
| Now do remembering to fill your medicine when you're off your
| medicine :) you need extreme executive loading to argue with
| insurance and RXs especially with the supply chain issues.
| falcolas wrote:
| It always bothers me how the procedure for getting ADHD
| meds is the single most ADHD unfriendly procedure in
| existence.
| tstrimple wrote:
| The first time I got medical treatment for ADHD, I
| eventually stopped treatment because I missed a Dr. appt
| due to being sick and just couldn't get myself to arrange
| a follow up appointment.
| gogogo_allday wrote:
| I like to joke that the test should simply be "can this
| person get their medication filled if they run into any
| impediment?"
| hughesjj wrote:
| And they vend it out to you one refill at a time too (at
| least with my provider), and due to the stimulant
| shortage you have to go to hospitals to get it filled and
| even then they don't have it available for some time
|
| I ran out of meds once but thank God my lady forced me to
| go get them asap because she couldn't handle me off the
| meds anymore
| chrisweekly wrote:
| meditation
| gibagger wrote:
| Do you also have an aversion to paperwork? Seems to be "a
| thing". Paperwork has paralysed me ever since I've been in high
| school. Have gotten in trouble and paid fines over
| procrastinating paperwork over my whole life.
|
| I am also on the "Highly Likely", and currently on the waitlist
| for a clinic. The best thing I did was being open and honest
| with my partner, as my ADD behaviors would sometimes exasperate
| her. I did the same with my manager at work, and it can usually
| get you some degree of accommodation which can help you cope.
|
| I suffer for the 3-for-1 Triple A special: Autism, Anxiety and
| ADD. Seems to be a fairly common combination. Physical exercise
| helps greatly with anxiety, and helps to some degree to ADD as
| it does generate a certain sense of "reward" in my brain.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Last year I sent a friend a package. It took me over a year
| to send the damn thing. Why? I just couldn't find the
| motivation to send it. I had all the contents packed up in a
| box ready to go, and I live like 0.2 mile walk away from a
| Post Office. Still took over a year to send it.
|
| Oh! I have another. I once drove with expired car tags for
| like 3 to 6 months. I already had them renewed and
| everything. In fact, my tag sticker was in the damn glove
| compartment the whole time. I just kept procrastinating on
| putting the sticker on because I didn't want to carve out the
| 1 minute it takes to unscrew the license plate cover, clean
| the plate, and apply the sticker.
|
| "I'll do it <insert future time>."
|
| It's shit like this that kills me.
|
| Ironically, I had less issues with this kind of stuff prior
| to being medicated, but I also was younger and had less
| responsibility in my day-to-day life, so medication might not
| be a correlated much.
| hughesjj wrote:
| FML I think my tags are expired, thanks
| idlewords wrote:
| If you want to take one more shot at it, try any online pill
| mill, the diagnostic process is much easier post-covid and may
| be as simple as a brief in-person interview with a non-MD
| practitioner.
| atcalan wrote:
| You still need cognitive behavioral therapy. Stimulants are a
| blunt instrument.
| swozey wrote:
| I always find it interesting when people have a hard time
| getting a diagnosis. I was diagnosed as a child with ADHD and
| I've had ... tens of psychiatrists over my life and when I
| eventually move and go to a new one I've never once had one
| want to re-diagnose or have me prove in some way that I'm ADHD.
| I just tell them that I'm ADHD and my other neurodivergent
| issue and they prescribe me my medication.
|
| I've never told a new pysch who my previous psych was so I'm
| sure they're not getting my medical records from them unless
| there's some sharing system I'm unaware of.
|
| I wonder if I come off as strongly ADHD. I've been called
| "intense" before, whatever that means. I'm definitely fidgety
| and a horrible leg bouncer.
| bratwurst3000 wrote:
| Lol I was kind of rediagnosed as an adult and I missed the
| first appointment. Then it took me half a year to make another
| one. There I forget half my papers ... and so on ...
|
| After 1h talk and some tests where I refilled everything so oft
| that it was a mess they didn't have any doubt.
| feydaykyn wrote:
| Ask a friend to dedicate time to be with you (even on remote)
| when you fill/send the paperwork. Or hire a secretary/student
| to do it for you. You need a crutch, that's OK and totally
| normal!
| VoidWhisperer wrote:
| Can you share the plugins or scripts used with obsidian mentioned
| in the post? (Ie the ticket one/the calendar one) those seem very
| useful!
| rlemaitre wrote:
| Hi,
|
| Sure, I'm using Agile Task Note
| (https://github.com/BoxThatBeat/obsidian-agile-task-notes) for
| the Jira sync and for Google Calendar, I'm using obsidian-
| google-lookup (https://github.com/ntawileh/obsidian-google-
| lookup) and obsidian-google-calendar
| (https://github.com/YukiGasai/obsidian-google-calendar)
| hyllos wrote:
| Pauses. I am experimenting with basic scheme of 25 mins focus and
| then 5 mins pause. It is mind blowing how it lowers frustration
| and sort of ensures that I start work only on a clear task which
| I often tend to loose to easily. The biggest surprise are the
| pauses (no, no email checking or web browsing; get up and move
| around). While formerly I experienced it that I don't have enough
| time to do what I want to do, I experience just the opposite of
| it during pauses. Now, what do I do in this time? Wow. That's
| new. But also hard to stick to it. But there is more to it, the
| rules and principles that go along with it.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| Sounds like the Pomodoro Technique [0] (also mentioned in the
| article). Glad it is working out for you! I tried that to help
| with my ADHD with very little and very fleeting success.
|
| 0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique
| rchaud wrote:
| The classic Pomodoro is said to be 25minn + 5 mins break,
| which adds up to half an hour, which is a common measurement
| unit for time worked. I've discovered that for my needs, a 20
| min pomodoro with 5 mins rest works better.
|
| The problem is that Pomodoros are hard to count if you hit
| flow state and find it hard to stop when the timer rings.
| mmatants wrote:
| To add a data point, I used to do Pomodoro timing (25+5 min)
| but now switched to 15 min timer with a loose 2-5 min break.
| It's still hard to actually pull out of hyper-focus/anxious
| perseveration sometimes, but the shorter timer period seems to
| match my task cadence better. And the non-timed break just
| vibes better because it doesn't feel like punishment then.
| toyg wrote:
| I'm sure the post is useful but i'm getting really distracted by
| the AI anime-like art. Maybe tone it down a bit, yeah? For a post
| about helping ADHD sufferers focus on what matters, it's quite
| incongruous.
| bre1010 wrote:
| I'm into the art style, but was tipped off that it's AI-
| generated because it's filled with almost-letters making up
| almost-words
| damnitpeter wrote:
| I liked it but it also made me think the text of the article
| was probably AI generated as well.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Extremely relatable. Hyperfocus... I can easily spend over twenty
| hours focusing on something once I get in the zone, but it's
| extremely difficult to open the editor and start programming.
| Coping mechanisms and adaptative behaviors are all good and all
| but the power of lisdexamfetamine cannot be underestimated.
| upupupandaway wrote:
| At least one study found no relationship between hyperfocus and
| ADHD.
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089142222...
| thibaut_barrere wrote:
| For reference:
|
| Highlights
|
| * We could not demonstrate a higher frequency of hyperfocus
| in adults with ADHD relative to healthy controls.
|
| * Hyperfocus is experienced both by healthy and ADHD adults
| although it correlates positively with ADHD traits.
|
| * Age and educational level are important determinants of
| hyperfocus.
|
| * Motivational, situational and clinical aspects of
| hyperfocus need to be taken into account in future studies.
| aidog wrote:
| Coping mechanisms also help with getting started. Mine are
| history podcasts and stimulating YouTube videos in the
| background.
| sureglymop wrote:
| Lisdexamphetamine is a big help, but the side effects can be
| devastating. Of course every person is different, but for me
| this reduced my sleep quality significantly. I can no longer
| take any of these meds if I want a good restful night of sleep.
| When I was younger it was no problem though.
| JoBrad wrote:
| I don't have any issues with sleep and this medication, but I
| take it pretty early (usually 5:30/6). It is well over by
| bedtime.
| sureglymop wrote:
| It only really became a problem after about 10 years of
| being medicated for adhd. However taking it early as well
| as physical exhaustion does help.
| dymk wrote:
| It took me a long time to dial in my vyvanse prescription so
| it wasn't impacting my sleep, plus not taking it on the
| weekends.
|
| Stress in all its forms also turned out to be a critical
| factor in sleeping well, too. Simply taking on fewer
| responsibilities (which I attribute in part to my particular
| ADHD) helped a lot there.
| financltravsty wrote:
| I can plus one this. I thought it was the stimulant dosage
| in the afternoon that was keeping me up all night, but it
| turns out to be stress! Once that is relieved, things go
| back to normal.
| scohesc wrote:
| My doctor suggests I take Vyvanse on the weekends, 7 days a
| week - I feel like after taking it so long (almost a
| decade) I don't know who I am anymore off the pills - like
| I'm a different person almost?
|
| Did your doctor suggest weekend breaks, or is this
| something you've tried yourself and found works for you?
| deltaburnt wrote:
| That's interesting, I found it actually helps with my sleep.
| As it wears off (around the end of the work day) I feel
| pretty tired. Plus I no longer need to drink coffee to get
| through the day, so I think the lack of caffeine helps too.
| FuckButtons wrote:
| I just want to offer an alternative perspective because I
| think it's important not to discourage people who might be
| put off trying meds because of the potential downside. Once I
| had the dosage, and importantly a second dose at mid day
| dialed in, my sleep actually improved. My sleep problems were
| caused by adhd, so having it be treated as I was winding down
| for the night was a huge improvement in my ability to sleep.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| I don't take it myself either. I've always been afraid of the
| cardiovascular risks associated with stimulants. I've seen
| recent research suggesting it doesn't increase risk but
| still.
|
| The medicine completely cured me though.
| jakey_bakey wrote:
| "Coping Mechanisms: Over the years, adults develop various coping
| strategies that can mask ADHD symptoms. For instance, someone
| might excessively rely on calendars, to-do lists, or alarms to
| compensate for forgetfulness."
|
| You're goddamn right I do
| coremoff wrote:
| do you find that todo lists help you?
|
| I certainly agree with calendars/alarms but todo lists for me
| are a place to put things instead of doing them and then they
| become a separate problem all of their own
| artdigital wrote:
| Same for me. Todo lists don't work for me at all
|
| The only kind of todo list that does is a piece of physical
| paper with the items that I want to finish that day
| pseudoramble wrote:
| I find that for calendars and to do lists to work well, I
| need reminders to tell me to check the lists lol. Not great.
| mofeien wrote:
| I made a kanban board of post-its on my bedroom mirror,
| that's hard enough to miss so that I automatically check
| them several times a day.
| tbrake wrote:
| They help me. At least the physical, paper ones do.
|
| I keep my days on track by taking time in the early morning
| and reviewing the previous days accomplishment/misses/notes
| and then writing down an outline of today's goals and
| reminders. Notes throughout the day get jotted in the
| margins. Something like maybe 70% blogging, 30% to-do list?
|
| Can't say I've ever used an app that felt 1/8th as helpful.
| It feels like there's some extra brain magic going on in the
| process of putting thoughts on actual paper that results in
| more retention and effort of thought put into writing.
| naavis wrote:
| For me the most important function of a todo list is to
| remind me what I am supposed to be doing _right now_. I often
| get distracted and veer off to do something else, but a quick
| glance at the top of my todo list gives me that little nudge
| to go back. Anything further down the todo list will possibly
| stay undone.
| arketyp wrote:
| That's a feature of todo lists I think. Well, perhaps not for
| ADHD per se, but it's a way also to offload and let go of
| things. At least that's what I remember the lifehack
| character on Queer Eye for the Straight Guy said.
| dymk wrote:
| Todo lists help me deal with tasks not worth doing. I feel
| anxiety over forgetting things, even if they're ultimately
| not important - it can be hard to tell what's important in
| the moment.
|
| Putting it in a todo list allows me to let go of the anxiety
| of forgetting, because I know I'll triage and prune my todo
| list soon enough.
| anthonypz wrote:
| Yeah, prioritizing tasks is also part of the problem for me.
| I use the TickTick app to save my tasks and it has a feature
| called the Eisenhower Matrix, which allows me to prioritize
| my tasks in a visual way like a kanban board. Sometimes
| that's not enough. Keeping to a schedule to form a habit is
| also a challenge, so I prepend a number to the most important
| tasks and set up reminders for them. Once I have the big
| tasks laid out in the app, I revert to old school pen and
| paper to break the tasks down into smaller parts because it's
| faster and reduces friction.
|
| Maybe that sounds like overkill, but I've found that having a
| system for writing down tasks, prioritizing them, and
| creating a daily schedule/habit are all equally important for
| people with ADHD.
| pydry wrote:
| I used to think they didn't. It is entirely pointless and
| even something of a distraction if it's something that's
| currently part of my hyperfocus/obsession.
|
| If it's something I might forget (e.g. an admin task), then
| if I don't put it in a list and have either a habit to pluck
| it out of the list or a reminder prompting me then it is
| usually forgotten.
|
| I also rely very much more heavily on checklists (especially
| templated checklists) than the average person. If I'm
| traveling and I don't set a reminder for 7pm the night before
| a trip with a packing checklist then I will either forget 4
| critical items or I will be frantically packing at the last
| minute or both.
| Capricorn2481 wrote:
| I mean the author in the article uses a to do list
| JohnBooty wrote:
| and then they become a separate problem all of their own
|
| I struggle with it too.
|
| There are an infinite number of possible todo systems and
| different systems will work for different individuals at
| different times. But, I do feel there are two immutable
| truths w.r.t. successful todo list tasking.
|
| 1. You have to aggressively prioritize and prune them.
|
| 2. You should have separate daily/weekly/monthly/"someday"
| lists. Or some variation on this them. Maybe you do
| weekly/monthly/someday. Or today/tomorrow/someday. Whatever.
|
| Point is it can't be a single infinitely expanding list or
| multiple infinitely expanding lists. Otherwise it's just a
| giant guilt pile that is 50% full of crap you don't even care
| about any more.
|
| I still struggle but I think embracing those two principles
| is table stakes
| qup wrote:
| > today/tomorrow/someday.
|
| For me: now, soon, eventually
|
| And things might be in the "now" list for a long time. It's
| the hardest list to work on, for me.
| Mordisquitos wrote:
| In my case I have to say that is only half true. As an adult-
| diagnosed ADHD sufferer I cannot say that I _developed_ coping
| strategies on which I relied excessively that masked my
| symptoms. Rather, I _used to try_ [0] to develop coping
| strategies, only for me to eventually drop them for
| unexplainable reasons at the slightest routine-messing incident
| or event, regardless of how effective the strategy was being or
| how good it felt. And then some time later I would [will] try
| again, under the blissful delusion that this time it will stick
| overriding the rational memory that I never succeed in setting
| up a system on which I can rely for the medium-to-long term.
| Rinse, wash, repeat.
|
| I am now in a low, with no active strategy, and without the
| mental strength to start working on a new one. Hopefully though
| I will recover my mojo soon and organise myself again. And I'm
| sure _this time_ it will stick...
|
| [0] I still try to develop coping strategies, but I used to
| too.
| worklaptopacct wrote:
| This is me. I stopped trying to be organized, because I know
| that as soon as there is some inconvenience or difficulty
| organizing, I will just get overwhelmed and drop everything I
| was trying to do. For example, I just cannot take notes or
| manage a calendar.
| jwozn wrote:
| I got an e-ink notepad, which helped organize my thoughts
| better than the 10 different legal pads I would jump
| between. Still disorganized, but at least now my notes for
| a single topic are in one place.
|
| For a calendar, my wife hung this acrylic calendar on the
| kitchen wall and we update it at the beginning of every
| month. I try to add things as they come up, and I often
| forget to add things if they are in future months, but it's
| helped for me to keep track of family arrangements. Any
| personal appointments I make on my own I try to put
| immediately into my google calendar, and then my work
| calendar is completely separate. As I'm typing this I
| realize I rely heavily on others to manage most of my
| time...
| thunkshift1 wrote:
| Which notepad?
| escapedmoose wrote:
| I do the same. And while it's frustrating that nothing seems
| to stick long-term, I think it's important to be trying. I'll
| create a recurring to-do list of errands and I'll stick to it
| for a week if I'm lucky. It feels bad when I find all those
| errands incomplete the following week when there's a slight
| change in schedule, but at least those things got done the
| first week. And I pivot to a new strategy and try it all
| again.
|
| The cycle stopped bothering me so much when I realized that's
| what it is: a cycle. It ebbs and flows with my energy levels.
| And frankly part of why I can't keep it up is probably
| because I'm putting too much demand on myself. If I need to
| take a break, I guess that's just what needs to happen. I'll
| probably pick up a more productive routine again next week.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| I think that seems healthy to me. As folks with ADHD we are
| typically novelty-seekers. I think it's ok to accept that
| one's systems will be ever-shifting.
|
| For a decade or two I've gone back and forth between paper
| and electronic note-taking and I think that's OK, I don't
| have to find one perfect forever system for everything.
| meiraleal wrote:
| this hits home with a caveat: Every time I try a new
| strategy, even if I drop it later, I end up a bit better than
| before. It's like with each try, my starting point for the
| next attempt is a little higher. Once I accepted that this is
| just how things work for me, I stopped feeling anxious about
| it too.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| That's me too (except I was diagnosed as a kid). Only thing
| that has worked reliably with me is Dexmethylphenidate, but
| it messes with my sleep, so I get to choose between my brain
| feeling like mush in the morning or playing the focus-lottery
| for the rest of the day.
|
| P.S. Nice Mitch Hedberg reference
| 93po wrote:
| Severe adhd here. The book "tiny habits" has been life
| changing for me. It hasn't solved all my problems but it's
| made a massive difference
| corobo wrote:
| I've recently been wondering if maybe I'm overcrowding myself
| in this way. I mean I definitely am, but I'm starting to
| wonder if there are any other options besides burning through
| tasks whenever I get a good day.
|
| I don't think I've had an empty task list in my entire
| professional career outside of changing jobs and effectively
| declaring task bankruptcy. Todoist's end of day notification
| often says something like "review the 54 tasks remaining for
| the day".. One day someone will figure out a system that
| works for every ADHDer in the modern world and we'll have a
| new tech/space/etc renaissance, haha
|
| Incidentally I saw this meme on Twitter while procrastinating
| something or other earlier, quite apt
| https://img.imgy.org/1xkR.jpg
|
| Best of luck to you, me, everyone else struggling with this
| one!
| JohnBooty wrote:
| For me, the biggest takeaway from David Allen's "Getting
| Things Done" book (which was hugely popular in the early
| 2000s) was that todo lists require aggressive pruning.
|
| Otherwise they work well at first but quickly become giant
| guilt piles, aka "54 tasks remaining for the day" syndrome.
|
| (Also then you never get the satisfaction of clearing your
| daily list, because it is one neverending eternal infinite
| list)
|
| Which of your 54 daily tasks should be put on a "tomorrow"
| or "next week" or "next year" list? Which of them truly
| need to be done in the next 24 hours?
| albert_e wrote:
| Oh God this sounds so much like my autobiography :(
| notfromhere wrote:
| Honestly no coping strategy worked until I got medicated.
| Then it all became so simple and easy to do.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| And then some time later I would [will] try again,
| under the blissful delusion that this time it will
| stick
|
| First... damn. I know the struggle. Much love to you and much
| respect.
|
| Just an idea w.r.t. systems. Have you tried prioritizing
| "ease of use" over "completeness and awesomeness"?
|
| I made some progress myself that way lately. I was always
| trying to organize things in some kind of... I don't know?
| perfect and aesthetically pleasing way? In hindsight, I think
| I was telling myself I had to get to some perfect system like
| these garages, where everything is perfectly organized and
| has a purpose and place.
|
| https://www.pinterest.com/pin/721209327810494107/
|
| Instead what worked for me in the end was a bunch of clear
| plastic bins from Home Depot, with big labels on them. They
| are not literally childrens' bins but in spirit, the end
| solution for me was not too far away from this:
|
| https://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=active&nfpr=1&.
| ..
|
| Point being, what finally worked for me was the system with
| the lowest possible friction, not the "best" system.
| Pikamander2 wrote:
| I don't see why any of that would be excessive or exclusive to
| people with ADHD. Neurotypical people forget important stuff
| all the time and would also benefit from good organizational
| skills and reminders about important deadlines.
| Bjartr wrote:
| I recently started talking to a therapist again after several
| years not, this time focusing on ADHD. I never realized until
| now the sheer number of little tweaks I've integrated into my
| thinking and behavior, nor the degree to which I've optimized
| them all for maximum likelihood of actually getting stuff done.
| No one approach works consistently, but every now and then I
| get lucky and one does, and that's a real improvement over not
| doing them.
| deafpolygon wrote:
| > For instance, someone might excessively rely on calendars,
| to-do lists, or alarms to compensate for forgetfulness."
|
| Holy objects. Can't survive with any of these things.
|
| I have 2 calendars running (it's actually only one, but I have
| Outlook mobile installed, plus Apple Calendar- they sync to the
| same calendar , I get two separate notifications for everything
| so I can't just dismiss them as easily).
| upupupandaway wrote:
| I swear that every time I read an article by somebody who claims
| they've been diagnosed with ADHD, it is the same formula: "when I
| was a child...", "I didn't know what it was", ..., "I was finally
| diagnosed with ADHD", then finally "I have super powers no one
| else has so I will use them to my advantage".
|
| I would love to see an ADHD version of the horoscope/personality
| tests administered by Stagner and Forer. I predict the effect
| would be the same. This study seems to be on this track:
| https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07067437221082...
| m463 wrote:
| I read a book once decades ago about ADHD, and it said lots of
| children are misdiagnosed with it. One of the very common
| causes is that kids who don't eat regularly (or eat sugar then
| crash) will encounter low blood sugar. The body reacts to this
| by dumping adrenaline in the bloodstream and ... voila ... an
| excitable kid with little focus.
| chownie wrote:
| Between decades ago and now we've recognized that sugar only
| causes excitableness in children who are prompted (Clever
| Hans style) by adults who expect such an outcome.
|
| The wisdom you're referencing is circa the 70's, it's been
| attempted many times since and has never replicated.
| hnbad wrote:
| The comment you're replying to doesn't seem to mention the
| debunked "sugar rush". The "crash" on the other hand seems
| to be more replicable.
|
| Also your framing ignores that the "prompting" can be
| circumstantial rather than targeted. The "rush" is
| frequently misattributed to sugar when it can actually be
| better explained by the food itself being a rare treat (and
| thus exciting) or the situation in which it is provided
| being special (e.g. a party). Or it can simply be the joy
| of eating something very tasty.
|
| It's less Clever Hans and more "kids are more prone to
| sudden outbursts of strong emotions and adults blame it on
| food".
| m463 wrote:
| sigh, the book wasn't blaming sugar.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| It's both under- and over-diagnosed because the funnel for
| children is teachers who have basically been trained to refer
| the "problem children" for diagnosis.
|
| I have a son who has extreme anxiety, and kept getting
| referred by teachers for ADHD. Hyper-vigilance for danger can
| make it hard to focus on arithmetic, particularly in an
| elementary school classroom. The psychiatrist ended up
| putting a note in his file because this was happening.
|
| Meanwhile, I also have a daughter who is so obviously ADHD:
| she forgets to turn in her homework; there were 6 of her
| jackets in the lost and found in October; she will go to
| school without her eyeglasses; &c. But, she doesn't disrupt
| the classroom and is otherwise seen as a "good kid" so she
| was never referred by a teacher.
| serialNumber wrote:
| I used to be your daughter! Super quiet, got all my work
| done on time, was seen as "gifted", but would lose
| absolutely everything (and I mean everything).
|
| I really suggest some sort of setup to maintain structure
| as she gets older - being aware of a diagnosis or having
| medication / therapy would've really saved a couple painful
| years in university for me
| Difwif wrote:
| I have been personally diagnosed with ADHD and have benefited
| from medication but it doesn't come without its costs. My wife
| was diagnosed when she was very young and we've had a lot of
| time to run self experiments and discuss ideas.
|
| I don't think people want to hear this but I believe so many
| people think they have ADHD because of a lack of discipline.
| Even people with ADHD will understand what I'm talking about.
| Some days you can take your medication and still get nothing
| done with endless distractions.
|
| We live in a world full of distractions and our attention spans
| are being whittled down with every new dopamine slot machine on
| our phones. What's rare today is someone stopping themselves
| from reaching for the digital crack and embracing the less
| stimulating but more rewarding long term goal slog. Treating
| every focus problem you have as a medical issue or a fleeting
| lack of motivation gives you an easier out. What you really
| need to accept is that sometimes you just avoid discomfort and
| the only thing missing is forcing yourself to get shit done and
| being content with it.
| RhodesianHunter wrote:
| The good thing is that while getting started sucks, if you're
| consistent with it you can train your mind to seek out and
| crave long term goal progress and completion in the same way
| you can train your body.
|
| Just don't forget to be in the present.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| > _if you 're consistent with it you can train your mind to
| seek out and crave long term goal progress and completion
| in the same way you can train your body._
|
| How? I mean, one of my major symptoms is that I can't for
| life do either! "Training my body" doesn't feel like
| something natural or within range of possibility.
| viraptor wrote:
| Yeah, I found it close to the annoying "you could try not
| to have issues... harder". I'm glad some people find they
| can actually change their behaviours. But it's more of a
| "if you /CAN BE/ consistent with it" issue for others.
| bacza2 wrote:
| "Life is suffering". Better to accept it. There is joy in
| life but what you are present for even without training
| your mind is suffering. It's way easier to recognize and
| remember than joy.
|
| What do you mean by "natural or within range of
| possibility"?
|
| One is consistent by doing, not by feeling (of course
| feelings have their own place in life). I don't enjoy
| going to the gym per se. I let go of that and go. I don't
| go because I feel happy and motivated before exercise.
| First, I went because people for thousands of years have
| saying so, and biologically it makes sense. Then, because
| I know how I feel in the short and long term after the
| exercise.
|
| I do different sports for enjoyment and different for
| keeping in shape of course. I love hiking but going to a
| gym is more sustainable as a regular way of keeping in
| shape in all seasons and weather.
| helboi4 wrote:
| Yep, I know a lot of people who have the most horrible
| lifestyles who claim to have ADHD. I had previously been
| entirely useless in my life and claimed to be depressed. As
| soon as I made an effort to be happy and implement healthy
| coping mechanisms I quickly became a much more functional
| human being. I have found myself recently wondering if I have
| ADHD a lot. I'm starting to realise this may be the same
| thing and I do need to have some self discipline. I am pre-
| disposed to being disorganised, terrible at dealing with time
| and very contrary in the face of things I don't want to do.
| However, I'm pretty sure these are things I can sorta improve
| on and are not so tied to my brain chemistry that I must
| yield to them. Recently I had a gf who was hypersensitive to
| all noise, practically unable to sleep, extremely
| hyperactive, addictive tendencies, impulsive to a ridiculous
| level, terrible relationship to food, always talking too much
| or too little to hold a conversation as expected, worse
| concept of time than me, constantly living in an extreme
| level of chaos. She was recently diagnosed ADHD and nothing
| has ever been less surprising to me in my life. That gave me
| a good insight about what is the difference between me being
| pretty disorganised and always feeling like it's hard to
| start doing things, and what being ADHD looks like. Mainly, I
| do not have all these other neurodivergent tendencies like
| hypersensitivity. So hopefully I will be able to continue
| working towards functioning as a normal adult although I do
| find it sorta challenging. I am investigating physical
| medical reasons for my difficulty focusing and still looking
| to see if I can get assessed though, just to rule anything
| out. But I think I can do a lot more with my behaviour than I
| think.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| > _As soon as I made an effort to be happy and implement
| healthy coping mechanisms_
|
| What _are_ some of the "healthy coping mechanisms"? Other
| than "diet and exercise" panacea nonsense?
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Diet and exercise! I mean it helps but the commenter
| probably means stopping with social media and passive
| distractions.
| helboi4 wrote:
| Erm a lot of things. Diet and exercise are literally key.
| Diet less so, I can be depressed with a great diet. But
| with adequate sun exposure and exercise it's pretty hard
| to be super depressed unless you have a serious chemical
| imbalance. (edit: I also think having goals in your
| exercise that you actually care about somewhat helps).
|
| I go outside and stare at the sun every morning for like
| 5 mins (this is so key I can't even overstate it). I take
| a cold shower after that (proven to increase your
| baseline dopamine). I exercise almost every day. I try to
| never spend a whole day in my house unless I'm sick,
| preferably spending the majority of the day outside my
| house. I try to get 8 hours of sleep at least 5 out of 7
| days a week, by which I mean 9 hours in bed with the
| lights off. Being in bed 8 hours isn't sufficient. All
| this makes me feel awake and sorta alive.
|
| I keep a journal where I set myself goals for the day and
| I reflect on my performance and my state of mind at the
| end of the day. Sorta a bullet journal deal with a bit
| more feels but in a practical way. It's for monitoring
| and encouraging iterative improvement and for analysing
| and mitigating negative thought patterns. This allows me
| to keep myself accountable but also just cope when I'm
| literally crying in the evening for no reason. It's like
| my emotional support book.
|
| I was having trouble with caring about anything I usually
| would. I just started trying to act like I cared. Like
| acting curious, being highly engaged. And it sort of
| leads to you naturally being more interested after a
| while.
|
| I try to create social interaction for myself every week
| even if no-one invites me to do anything.
|
| I have Freedom app on my phone blocking most stuff for
| the first 5 hours and last 1 hour of the day. I also
| don't listen to music or podcasts in the morning. This
| leaves my brain feeling less sluggish and helpless.
|
| I sign up for really random stuff sometimes just to make
| my life interesting.
|
| Lastly, I do a lot of deep breathing when I'm trying to
| get things done because I tend to get anxiety about
| literally any task.
|
| Edit: I don't know why I need so much going on to make
| myself function like a normal person. But it works a lot
| better than not doing this because otherwise I literally
| curl up into a ball, give up on life and get fired from
| jobs.
| escapedmoose wrote:
| For a while there I thought I had ADHD, and started looking
| for avenues to get diagnosed. But when I talked more with
| some friends who have serious cases of it, I started to
| doubt. Instead of going for the medication, I removed
| distracting apps from my phone and logged out of socials. It
| took a few weeks to settle into the routine, but now my
| focus/attention problems are all but gone. Go figure!
| sureglymop wrote:
| I have diagnosed ADHD and I do not have social media
| (besides HN), distracting apps or anything. I just have
| stock GrapheneOS on my phone, no extra distractions. This
| helps tremendously but doesn't really affect the core
| issues of adhd, which are a lack of focus when that is
| needed. Note that it's not a general lack of focus and not
| a lack of discipline. People with ADHD often fall into
| depression _because_ they cannot focus well enough even
| with the right discipline and motivation.
| escapedmoose wrote:
| Exactly. I came to the conclusion that for me it was an
| environment/discipline issue because (among other things)
| my severe-ADHD friends would try the same tactics with 0
| effect. If I can manage attention issues with lifestyle
| changes alone, it's probably not a brain chemistry
| problem.
|
| I do think it's a testament though to how brain-rotting
| the always-on socials/apps/notifications can be. They
| messed me up so bad I literally thought I had a medical
| condition! Yikes.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I found an article written... a while ago now which describes
| the issue already, having the internet under your fingers and
| endless short form distractions:
| https://randsinrepose.com/archives/nadd/.
|
| > My mother first helped diagnose me with NADD. It was the
| late 1980s and she was bringing me dinner in my bedroom
| (nerd). I was merrily typing away to my friends in some
| primitive chat room on my IBM XT (super nerd), listening to
| music (probably Flock of Seagulls--nerd++), and watching Back
| to the Future with the sound off (nerrrrrrrrrrd). She
| commented, "How can you focus on anything with all this stuff
| going on?" I responded, "Mom, I can't focus without all this
| noise."
|
| I'm confused btw; the date on the page mentions it was
| written in 2003, but the article mentions Slack which didn't
| exist until 2013, unless the article's been kept updated over
| the years.
|
| edit: It has been, that's a cute time box; the 2004 archived
| version https://web.archive.org/web/20140214120052/http://ran
| dsinrep... has the following:
|
| > Me, I've got a terminal session open to a chat room, I'm
| listening to music, I've got Safari open with three tabs open
| where I'm watching Blogshares, tinkering with a web site, and
| looking at weekend movie returns. Not done yet. I've got
| iChat open, ESPN.COM is downloading sports new trailers in
| the background, and I've got two notepads open where I'm
| capturing random thoughts for later integration into various
| to do lists. Oh yeah, I'm writing this column, as well.
|
| the current version:
|
| > Me, I've got Slack opened and logged into four different
| teams, I'm listening to music in Spotify, I've got Chrome
| open with three tabs where I'm watching stocks on E*TRADE,
| I'm tinkering with WordPress, and I'm looking at weekend
| movie returns. Not done yet. I've got iMessage open, Tweetbot
| is merrily streaming the latest fortune cookies from friends,
| and I've got two Sublime windows open where I'm capturing
| random thoughts for later integration into various to-do
| lists. Oh yeah, I'm rewriting this article as well.
| Uptrenda wrote:
| Not really. ADHD is well documented in brain scans that show
| a lack of activation and structural differences. You can
| actually see the difference between the brain of a person
| with ADHD and a control. It's not just 'having weak
| discipline' and 'not trying hard enough.' It would be like
| looking at someone with no arms and saying 'I believe that
| this person can pick up a ball but they just lack the
| discipline.' Nope, the structural basis to make that happen
| is absent. That's ADHD.
| 93po wrote:
| I dislike this post because medication is only a
| (meaningfully large part) of managing adhd. It's not a magic
| pill that solves it and if the patient doesn't have a
| holistic approach that includes mindfulness, exercise, diet,
| managing other mental health issues, and structure - then
| they're still likely to fail.
|
| I'd encourage you to read more about adhd because a huge
| symptom of it is lack of long term perspective in decision
| making. It's like one of the defining characteristics. Trying
| to dismiss that as someone being lazy or undisciplined is a
| damaging stereotype to spread. It's the equivalent of telling
| someone with depression to snap out of it or get some
| sunshine
| Difwif wrote:
| I think you missed my point. I'm mostly talking about the
| litany of people on social media that believe they have
| ADHD without brain scans or any formal diagnosis.
|
| Almost everyone suffers from some lack of discipline and
| some mistake it for being neurodivergent. People with ADHD
| can also lack it. Your point of taking a holistic approach
| is correct and I wasn't trying to single out medication.
| People with ADHD don't get a free pass on building
| discipline. In fact, to your point they require more of it
| to overcome their struggles. Medication, mindfulness,
| exercise, diet, and structure all take a lot of effort and
| consistency. It requires you to be more disciplined.
| 93po wrote:
| I'm not sure I like the word disciplined but I'm being
| pedantic. It takes tremendous effort, finding the right
| resources, and setting up structure to be successful.
| Which maybe is discipline? Idk
| Bjartr wrote:
| > I believe so many people think they have ADHD because of a
| lack of discipline
|
| A fundamental characteristic of my ADHD _is_ lack of
| discipline. I cannot force myself to do something if ADHD is
| getting in the way. On the rare occasions it 's not, and I
| have initiative (a truly precious resource), it doesn't
| matter how much or little I enjoy the task, or how
| uncomfortable the task is, it's getting done.
|
| As I'm sure you know, ADHD diagnosis, like many other
| diagnoses, needs two things: 1. Have at least N of M symptoms
| on a list. 2. Have those things have a material negative
| impact on your life.
|
| > the only thing missing is forcing yourself to get shit done
|
| ...yes? Obviously?
|
| As far as I understand it, that's the whole point. People who
| don't have ADHD just don't struggle with that to the point
| that it shapes their life, it's just an occasional annoyance
| that doesn't require any special effort to deal with.
| nraynaud wrote:
| I got diagnosed with ADHD a couple years ago, and it has
| remained a shit show since then. It was a shit show before, but
| now medical appointments and crazy restricted medicines have
| been added to the mix (I ran out of an addictive antidepressant
| this weekend, not fun). It feels like everybody agrees I'm sick
| but nobody has an effective treatment for me. I went to see all
| the doctors who accepted to see me (it's not that many, the
| appointment system is made to fend of patients, not help you
| see a doctor), nobody had any magical insight. I lost the best
| job of my life because of my inability to stay on track.
| hh_throwaway385 wrote:
| I don't find this hyperfocus to be unique and became quite
| resentful when diagnosed later in life by a therapist +
| psychiatrist. In my case, I was confused as to why I was always
| underperforming and needed to work extra hours to catch up with
| my peers, for example. It is not lazyness, when alone I'm a
| dialed down version of Martin Lorentzon (reference here from
| the Spotify docuseries)
|
| As a child, I had nicknames related to "crazy." Today, the one
| thing I take pride in related to ADHD is my ability to think
| outside the box.
| sureglymop wrote:
| I personally don't believe in any "superpowers". Its just
| adversity you face, nothing good about it. I'd rather not have
| it obviously. But maybe my experience is different became I
| later also got diagnose with having Aspergers.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| What is everyone's experience getting officially diagnosed and
| treated? I match up pretty closely with textbook symptoms and all
| of the free online "tests" indicate I should get treated for
| it... but how? I've found places that offer an ADHD screening at
| the tune of multiple thousands, not in network with any
| insurance, but those places don't also treat it. I'm more
| interested in pharmacological treatments rather than typical
| therapy (after over 40 years, I've developed coping mechanisms
| like the author), but it's hard to choose what type of doctor is
| best here. What experiences does everyone here have?
| upupupandaway wrote:
| I am surprised you are having any problem getting diagnosed.
| ADHD is one of the easiest conditions to fake:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3173757/
| danielheath wrote:
| OP didn't report trouble getting someone to believe they have
| ADHD, they reported indecision and difficulty identifying
| someone who offers treatment and arranging an appointment.
|
| As someone who did get diagnosed: It took me _five_ attempts
| to get all the way to an appointment with a psychiatrist
| (inability to find a suitable psychiatrist, lost referrals,
| missed appointments etc). Navigating the medical
| establishment with untreated ADHD is hell. Now I've got
| treatment for it, I could do it easily, but it's really hard
| to overstate just how non-functional you can end up.
|
| Because the symptoms are easily faked, I needed a significant
| range of retrospective evidence - quotes from school report
| cards, interviews with my parents - which I had to arrange
| prior to assessment. If I hadn't been able to produce those,
| I likely would not have been able to get treatment.
| iteria wrote:
| Not me, but my BFF managed to get diagnosed in her mid-30s. She
| was killing her heart with all the stimulants she was taking
| and her other ways to cope. I don't k own hoe she got
| diagnosed, but she definitely didn't do it for thousands of
| dollars. She couldn't have afforded that.
|
| I do know that therapy and medication made it night and day for
| her. She immediately dropped all caffeine. Her sleep and
| general mood was so much better and she wad way less flakey.
| She doesn't dismiss therapy although I know she hasn't gone
| every week for a while not and mostly goes when she's feeling
| like she needs it. Medication was a trip and error, but she's
| much happier with this steady state.
| upupupandaway wrote:
| I am confused by this post. Aren't stimulants the most common
| medication prescribed for ADHD?
| Jensson wrote:
| Coffee is the wrong kind of stimulant, it is a band aid. It
| is like eating sugar to try to dampen cravings for protein,
| causes you to overeat sugar.
| viraptor wrote:
| Yes, but they also can have side effects, some worse than
| dealing with ADHD. There are various non-stimulants like
| Atomoxetine which are also approved for ADHD and work for
| some that can't use the stimulants safely.
| nicbou wrote:
| I got diagnosed and then got medication. Ritalin/medikinet is
| the default here.
|
| It felt like a really strong coffee. It did not really help as
| I could just focus intensely on the wrong things for hours then
| crash. The comedown was not fun. The side effects were not fun.
| The benefits were questionable.
|
| Above all, my lifestyle is built around ADHD. My work is
| structured to accomodate my quirks. I was happier riding the
| waves as there were almost no consequences for doing so.
|
| Perhaps another type of medication would have worked better,
| but no medication at all is good enough.
|
| One thing I appreciated is that they titrated the medication
| safely. I hear that American doctors start people with a much
| stronger dose. German doctors seem more moderate, and more
| willing to try therapy first.
|
| Your mileage may vary.
| coremoff wrote:
| you will need to tell us your location; it will vary greatly
| across the world.
|
| In the UK, for me, diagnosis wasn't too hard via BUPA - my
| phsychiatrist seeing me for my other mental health problems
| recommended me and it was relatively quick to get an ADHD
| diagnosis; now, however, I am stuck - there's a UK shorage of
| medication so my psychiatrist is unwilling to proscribe for a
| new patient whilst existing ones aren't getting what they need.
| Until that gets unblocked I'm in limbo; additionally BUPA do
| not cover any ADHD costs (except the diagnosis) - after that
| you're on your own and you either need to self-fund or go via
| the NHS; the NHS won't "just" prescibe; for me they want that
| to come from the psychiatrist and they'll then pick up the
| medication part of it - but see above about BUPA not funding
| ADHD costs.
|
| If you go NHS all the way then you'll be on long waiting lists
| and, presumably, some sort of post-code lottery as to your
| experience.
|
| I'm willing to self-fund to get to the point where the NHS will
| take over (and apparently that's a dice-roll too; my GP says he
| will prescribe once the shrink gets me on a stable dose, but
| not before - apparently some GPs refuse and require that you go
| via the NHS for everything, so you're on long waiting lists
| again); but am currently unable to progress due to the shortage
| of medication, as mentioned. I am also expecting relatively
| large bills as I will need to self fund both the psychiatrist
| and the initial medication prior to the NHS picking it up.
|
| Anecdotally (reading ADHD forums on reddit) experiences in the
| US sound much more random.
| Velc wrote:
| I'm in the same boat.
|
| Expect to pay between PS700 - PS1500 (initial consultation,
| titration fees). Then the ongoing medication costs.
|
| Honestly I am torn on this issue, I don't think we should
| have a nation filled with amphetamine users, but right now
| I'm a self funded founder and I can't justify this cost. So I
| have no choice but to self medicate with medication I have
| procured myself through alternative means...
|
| The whole thing feels scammy in the UK
| piperswe wrote:
| Is there something inherently wrong with amphetamine use?
| Fluorescence wrote:
| The other option is "Right To Choose" through the NHS - you
| ask for a referral by your GP to a private ADHD specialist.
|
| The NHS ADHD waiting list in my region was over 6 years but
| using RTC, I was diagnosed in around 6 months with no extra
| cost and prescriptions costing the NHS standard. Places like
| ADHD360 and PsychiatryUK focus on high throughput / low cost
| so the amount of time and qualifications of the practitioners
| won't match hand-picking a private psychologist but you can't
| argue with the cost.
|
| https://psychiatry-uk.com/right-to-choose/
| viraptor wrote:
| Hard to say without some idea where you are, but it was not
| hard for me. It did cost me a few hundred $ overall, but the
| process was fairly simple. It did take a few months to get a
| spot for a remote appointment (if I lived in the city it would
| be faster in person) And I just knew the clinic knew who
| they're dealing with (reminder sent a week and a day before,
| reminder sent about payment, reminder about a followup, etc.)
| Maybe try finding some group which may have experience /
| specific contacts in the area? There's bound to be a
| country/state-specific group online where you can ask.
| Uptrenda wrote:
| Every now and again a certain disorder becomes more culturally
| prominent and psychiatrists get a wave of patients interested
| in being screened. The unfortunate part is this is what's
| happening with ADHD at the moment. Mostly outside of America it
| was always hard to get a diagnosis because ADHD is treated by
| 'drugs of abuse' (which really sketches doctors out.) It's a
| very common experience for people to try get a diagnosis only
| to have a doctor that either believes ADHD is BS or that the
| patient is just after getting high. But now there's a new
| stigma too: doctors who believe the condition is being
| massively over-diagnosed.
|
| I think in America you should still be able to get access to
| meds fast. But trying to chase local doctors means all the
| slowness that comes from a local economy (you really want an
| ADHD specialist because of stigma.) I would be trying to find
| telehealth options if they're there. I do agree with you about
| the behavioral approaches. The best option IMO is
| pharmaceutical. Stimulants are ~70-80% effective for people
| with ADHD.
| kamranjon wrote:
| If you live in the US - go to Zoom care - talk to a doctor,
| fill out a survey - walk out with a prescription. I don't use
| medication anymore but when I first discovered it, it changed
| my life for a time - and in the US it is incredibly easy to get
| prescribed from my experience.
| 93po wrote:
| Self reporting for adhd tests is notoriously unreliable to the
| point of being useless. It requires interviewing people close
| to the patient.
| uberduper wrote:
| If you're in the US, talk to your GP, family Dr or w/e. They
| can prescribe but they cannot diagnose. They'll refer you to
| someone. You probably want to be referred to a counselor rather
| than a psychologist.
|
| You should _really_ consider therapy in addition to any
| medication. The meds will be amazing for a month and then
| useful for a year. After that you're going to have to make a
| decision about how you want to continue treatment. Keep bumping
| the dose and adjust to the side effects or 'typical therapy'.
| By then, that therapy is going to be much harder to apply to
| your life than it would have been in the first few months when
| you started the meds.
| karpour wrote:
| Anyone else tired of blogs trying to make their content more
| interesting by slapping loads of generated images into each post?
| JoBrad wrote:
| I thought the images were pretty good, although obviously
| generated. They complimented the author's points well.
| lopis wrote:
| While they are good, they fall in the graphic design uncanny
| valley where several details are disturbing and distracting.
| codingdave wrote:
| Not in the slightest. It adds flavor to the page and makes it
| more approachable than just a wall of text. This is one of the
| benefits of generated images - it is a nice middle ground
| between creating your own and choosing from stock images.
| noname120 wrote:
| Yeah. These are basically glorified stock pictures that
| superficially seem to fit the content. But images shouldn't
| just be about aesthetics: they should also complement the
| content. AI-generated stock pictures don't have any sort of
| hidden meaning, you're wasting your time if you look at them.
| keyle wrote:
| This hits home.
|
| I think we need to really take a hard look at today's world of
| tech and how we communicate and collaborate.
|
| I find that, if time allows, I get a massive productivity boost
| after 4:30pm and everyone is either winding down or leaving. All
| the sudden, the walls flatten, the horizon deepens and I enter a
| deep state of flow.
|
| Around 10 AM, after an elongated "stand up", I should be ready to
| go... And yet it's absolutely impossible to not alt-tab 300 times
| per hour, and I can't seem to even remember the code I just typed
| or what the hell I'm even trying to do.
|
| Even if I close Slack, Outlook and turn off all notifications,
| I've got a minute-by-minute cron job in the back of my head that
| ticks "Hey! One minute has passed. The world
| could be on fire! Is it?"...
|
| I remember once I had to travel for family, to a different
| timezone, I was super productive. Only 1 14" screen and a
| different timezone. Pedal to the metal.
|
| Ah, the 90s. The CRT, the keyboard, the fullscreen applications,
| the lack of communication. 1 or 2 emails a day. Bliss.
|
| Add to today: kids, imessages, facebook, twitter, mastodon,
| instagram, emails, slack, discord... How the fuck do I even
| survive the week?
|
| I think ADHD is the new norm.
| conception wrote:
| If you haven't tried any sort of mindfulness/meditation
| program, I'd recommend one. I like Ten Percent Happier and
| enjoyed the app and its content (not affiliated in any way).
|
| Being able to think about nothing is a skill/habit/muscle that
| needs to be learned and practiced. My mind still can churn but
| at least now I have the tools and some ability to tell it "not
| now" and quiet it some. It's been pretty dramatic, especially
| in being able to fall asleep quicker.
| jimmydddd wrote:
| Agreed. I like the vibe of Ten Percent Happier which is kind
| of like "Yeah, I thought this meditation stuff was bogus,
| but, for some reason it helps. No, it won't solve all of your
| problems, but it does seem to make things 10 percent better.
| And don't even think about saying 'Namaste.'" :-)
| keyle wrote:
| I will try this, thanks!
| atcalan wrote:
| Unfortunately genuine ADHD is a physiological problem that
| requires stimulant therapy _and_ cognitive behavior therapy
| in conjunction. Your dopamine and/or acetylcholine receptors
| are out of whack. This is why coffee and cigarettes/vapes are
| so prevalent. Methylphenidate or dexamphetamine work best but
| you pay a price. Yes, I have real world executive function
| research lab experience, so I know a bit of what I'm talking
| about. You need a good neurologist.
| collegeburner wrote:
| Maybe you can provide some perspective here: it seems
| almost universal that people who start these medications
| never find a dose that provides durable benefit over the
| long term. Makes sense; we acclimate to a new dopamine
| baseline, right? Almost everyone I know ends up on a
| significantly higher dose than they started with.
|
| And the stories of feeling like a zombie when off meds are
| very real and pretty freaky.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| I was on Adderall for ~6-7 years. The following is just
| my personal experience but it seems to match well with
| the vast majority of anecdotal experiences I have read
| about in _many many_ years of being immersed in this
| stuff... although these won 't be true for 100% of
| people. Almost everyone I know ends up
| on a significantly higher dose than they started
| with.
|
| One: At least in the US, for whatever reason, doctors
| tend to initially prescribe you a very low dose. I think
| this is a big part of why everybody ups the dosage.
|
| Two: Many/most people seem to avoid dosage creep by
| reducing or limiting their dose on weekends or on other
| days when it is feasible. If you take e.g. 20mg every
| day, 365 days a year, it's pretty much guaranteed to lose
| effectiveness. But if you can take that down to ~5-10mg
| on weekends that helps. Also weaning yourself off of it
| entirely from time to time seems to provide a reset.
| Doctors seem to never tell anybody this.
| And the stories of feeling like a zombie when off
| meds are very real and pretty freaky.
|
| Well, let's call it what it is... it's withdrawal.
| However to put it in perspective, most people find it
| milder than or similar to caffeine withdrawal.
|
| If you do significant amounts of stimulants every day and
| then go cold turkey you're gonna have a real bad time for
| a day or three.
|
| On the other hand if you steadily taper your dosage down
| to 0mg over ~3-7 days it's not bad at all.
|
| Again, doctors seem to never tell anybody this.
|
| BTW, while I am kind of "rebutting" your points I am not
| pushing Adderall. There are downsides to it. It made me
| more high-strung and prone to arguments and stress. The
| frequent shortages are a nightmare. And so on. I
| eventually moved on.
| bratwurst3000 wrote:
| I am someone with severe adhd and I only use meds (
| adderal) if needed. The side effects are heavy on the
| long run.
|
| Having coping mechanisms and and understanding
| surrounding is way more important.
|
| Without that and only meds I am only the person with the
| highest tension in the room.
|
| And my adhd was measured. Low dopamine.
|
| Btw I tried a adhd friendly diet and sports once . I
| don't know if it was placebo or real but it felt like it
| helped much.
|
| Mini meditative naps of 5 minutes also help if my brain
| is on the run.
|
| Honestly in my opinion meds are the easy way out but the
| side effects make alternatives necessary. On the long run
| there need to be better solutions that imply that society
| has to go a step toward the mentally divergent or Ill and
| respect their behavior as good willing and maybe find a
| better way to incorporate those in the workplace and
| social life.
|
| Sorry for edit:
|
| For example. If I have one of those adhd moments, where I
| am bit to specific about something and talk too much
| because of it, my friends recognize this and tell me to
| ,, wake up". And everything is fine. But if someone like
| this is needed.. there I am ;)
| JohnBooty wrote:
| My experiences as well. In the long run for me, meds are
| a small part of the solution.
|
| One thing you didn't mention was night time sleep, which
| is actually maybe the biggest single thing for me. The
| rest matches my experiences exactly.
|
| I love the part about respecting and embracing
| neurodiversity.
| footy wrote:
| I've been on meds for about four years now and I'm now on
| a (slightly) lower dose than I was for the first few
| months after I started.
|
| The higher dose was better for my emotional regulation
| and my focus, but it made my body feel wired all the
| time.
|
| The dose I am on now does provide significant benefits
| compared to not taking it, especially when combined with
| daily vigorous exercise (likely at least partially due to
| improved sleep).
|
| But I've never been on Adderall and I've never been on an
| IR med and I'm a woman diagnosed in childhood and again
| in adulthood, so I'm an ADHD unicorn really.
| petercooper wrote:
| Did modafinil ever come up in your lab? I was DXed ADHD
| somewhat by surprise and due to the situation, medication
| was not an option (and is rather difficult to obtain in my
| country anyhow). After reading about off-label use of
| modafinil for ADHD, I gave it a go, and it has worked very
| well from my POV.
| P_I_Staker wrote:
| Yet this is not the current stance of the industry that is
| trying to select the correct people for extermination
| instead of help people.
|
| What does a neurologist do anyway. I have CP and ADHD, yet
| haven't been referred and think all. It's not clear what
| they'd even do.
| sibeliuss wrote:
| As someone with a lot of focus potential, its mildly
| frustrating to read these accounts because even I'm terribly
| distracted, if I let myself be. But I've been meditating for
| a while and, in conjunction with a lot of discipline around
| avoiding social media, have been able to hit a sweet spot.
|
| I wonder though if I never discovered these two things, and
| simply absorbed everything I read online and convinced myself
| I had ADHD and got on meds. It's modern life, getting people
| down. There's simply no way to break through without
| recognizing that life is inherently distracting, and finding
| strategies around that.
|
| This is not dismissing the reality of ADHD, however, only to
| note that medication is overprescribed and that many confuse
| biology with extremely targeted algorithms designed to
| capture attention.
|
| And then there are the drug companies who capitalize on
| workers required to maintain long periods of focus; knowing
| they are vulnerable to performance pressure, they flood the
| industry with marketing. Next thing you know, an entirely
| healthy person's attention is destroyed, because the new
| baseline is oriented around a stimulant which they do not
| need, and which operate contrary to someone who actually has
| ADHD, which meds benefit. Like the opiate crisis, its all
| just an everyday American tragedy.
| Eumenes wrote:
| > Add to today: kids, imessages, facebook, twitter, mastodon,
| instagram, emails, slack, discord... How the fuck do I even
| survive the week?
|
| uh, perhaps by not using all of those things? sounds like
| you're uber distracted
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| Kids: not even once.
|
| Seriously, though, there might be external factors at play;
| different social circles might use these things and
| abandoning the apps could be the same as abandoning the
| groups.
| aidos wrote:
| You're at work. Sure, there's Slack - but dial the
| notifications down as much as you can. Almost none of us
| need access to social tools in that time. If you can't help
| yourself then do what developers do and use tech to stop
| you reaching for those things.
| Teridee wrote:
| At my company, we have daily standups and they throw off my
| whole morning. I only really work effectively when I am left to
| it and so have outlook/slack/messages turned off during periods
| where I am trying to focus - has got me in trouble with
| management a few times but I am not sure what else i can do.
|
| The piece was a good read but its so personal to me that it
| doesn't really help sadly.
| cottage-cheese wrote:
| > has got me in trouble with management a few times but I am
| not sure what else i can do
|
| Don't worry about it. I think this is good advice for any
| software engineer. Eventually you'll be senior enough or on a
| different team and it won't be a problem.
| throwoutway wrote:
| Agreed, I'd add to give your manager your phone number for
| emergencies and tell them you've allow-listed their number
| to ring when others can't. Then get back to flow
| TremendousJudge wrote:
| That sounds like a terrible idea to me, I'd never want to
| do that. If they like the work I do, management should
| learn to respect the way I do it.
| dannyw wrote:
| Sometimes there are genuine emergencies. If your company
| got hacked and is all hands on deck, you kinda have to be
| interrupted. There are situations in which emergencies
| may not be paged through normal systems.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| If you have the kind of clueless/toxic manager who is
| going to abuse this sort of arrangement, they are
| probably never going to agree to this sort of arrangement
| in this first place.
|
| For nearly all working relationships, I think it's
| reasonable to keep an emergency communication channel
| open.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| If you like the company/team enough to work there, you
| should learn to respect the way it operates.
|
| Hopefully it doesn't sound too combative, but I wanted to
| express that it's a two way street and compromises have
| to be found. I dislike various things in my company on a
| personal level, but often make sense from company/team
| point of view.
| greenie_beans wrote:
| daily check-in throws off my morning too. i have an hour from
| when i start til check-in, which is not enough time to get
| into deep work. looking forward to moving to a new timezone
| where i can take advantage of that timing with two hours
| before check-in.
| flir wrote:
| WFH encourages scheduled meetings. It's a nightmare. I'd
| much rather just get an interruption out of the blue than
| have someone schedule a meeting to talk to me, because in
| the run-up to the meeting I won't try to start anything
| (what's the point if I've got a pending interruption?) At
| least my standups are first thing in the morning.
| swozey wrote:
| I don't understand it. My company is fully remote but
| they are absolutely horrendous at async comms. I was
| trying to walk someone through adding a docker build
| process to their CI and.... he just couldn't
| communicate/understand it through slack and he wanted to
| schedule a meeting. Great, now instead of being able to
| respond while working on other things I have to cut out
| an entire hour of my day just for you.
|
| Thanks.
|
| Beyond that I refuse to do daily standups. I'll quit a
| company if they won't let me do async or communicate
| through slack. I'm not logging in and the start of my day
| being a meeting every single day. Absolutely not. I've
| been there before.
| flir wrote:
| Interesting. I like the daily meeting - gives me an
| anchor for my day that works with the meds. But like most
| ADHD people when unmedicated I get more productive at
| night, so I can see why you'd hate the daily checkin.
| swozey wrote:
| I'm about 20 years in and the first 10 years of my career
| as a SWE I had absolutely horrendous managers and daily
| checkins felt more like proving to someone that you had
| done any work the day prior, shaming you if you didn't
| produce enough. I have a hugely negative connotation to
| them even today, vs feeling that they're a positive team-
| collab sort of scenario.
|
| At two companies the actual CEO and CTO were in every
| single one of our standups (startups of course).
| JohnBooty wrote:
| It's funny how good (or shitty) experiences shape things.
| I like peer reviews and regular 1:1s with management.
| I've had good experiences with them, and have sorely
| missed them at jobs where they didn't happen.
|
| But I know good engineers (who are also good
| communicators) that loathe them with a great passion.
| tayo42 wrote:
| Idk if that has to do with async working. People pull
| that kind of stuff in office too. "Hey I don't get this,
| can we schedule some time so we can /you just do this for
| me " then you sit at a conference table or at their desk
| for an hour lol
| greenie_beans wrote:
| that's unfortunate, you have 20 years of experience but
| don't want to pair program or help out other developers.
| swozey wrote:
| I'm a Staff SRE. I literally mentor an entire SRE team
| every single day.
|
| I didn't say a single thing about paired programming.
| Christ. Did I say that the dev wanted to pair program?
| No, I didn't. I would have happily hopped in a huddle
| with him as OPPOSED to scheduling a meeting 3 days later.
|
| I am sick of meetings and people who are incapable of
| working async, especially when we're in different
| timezones, which is exactly what this thread I'm
| responding to is about.
| greenie_beans wrote:
| > I was trying to walk someone through adding a docker
| build process to their CI and.... he just couldn't
| communicate/understand it through slack and he wanted to
| schedule a meeting.
|
| this sounds like pair programming imo.
|
| > Great, now instead of being able to respond while
| working on other things I have to cut out an entire hour
| of my day just for you.
|
| this reads as a bad attitude towards mentorship. sorry
| for that assumption.
| swozey wrote:
| Nope, I love mentoring.
|
| My frustration is not knocking this out over 10 slack
| messages right now and having to round back to it days
| later. I want it done and off my plate.
|
| I'm ADHD. I don't want lingering tasks floating around
| giving me anxiety when they can be done quickly. I'm
| going to forget it exists until 10 minutes before when it
| pops up on my notifications, then I'll have to context
| switch over to that situation.
|
| One of my biggest coping mechanisms is as soon as
| something pops into my mind I do it RIGHT NOW. If I walk
| by the laundry basket and think of doing laundry I grab
| it and do it RIGHT now. Or I'll just walk by it for a
| week completely oblivious to it.
| greenie_beans wrote:
| i feel you. thanks for sharing your working style. i'm
| sorry i misread your comment.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| I'd much rather just get an interruption out of the
| blue than have someone schedule a meeting to talk to me
|
| After 15+ years of exploring my own ADHD and learning
| about others' experiences, I'm still constantly wowed by
| how differently we all react to this stuff.
|
| For _me,_ out-of-the-blue interruptions are a worst case
| scenario for my ADHD. It 's very hard for me to get into
| the "flow" if I know that I might be interrupted at any
| moment. I prefer scheduled meetings as a less-evil
| alternative.
|
| But many many feel similarly to you.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| In my experience scheduled meetings tend to be longer and
| involve more people than necessarily.
|
| Also, somewhat contraintuitively, I often avoid starting
| some new work e. g. 30 minutes before a scheduled
| meeting, meanwhile without it I just start, and if
| interruption happens,... it just happens.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Also, somewhat contraintuitively, I often avoid
| starting some new work e. g. 30 minutes before a
| scheduled meeting
|
| No, I think that makes sense and is pretty common.
|
| It's hard for me to get into the zone if I know I've got
| a hard stop in 30 minutes.
|
| Two workarounds for me. One is that I tell myself I'll
| spend the final 5 minutes jotting down todo's so I can
| pick back up relatively close to where I left off. I
| normally work in 20-30 min bursts anyway. This is
| actually not super successful for me but better than
| nothing.
|
| Slightly more effective for me is using those 30 minutes
| to bang out some smaller tasks. Review a small pull
| request. Pay a bill or two. Apply some software updates.
| Gotta be done eventually so I get them out of the way
| now, in service of more focus time later.
| taude wrote:
| That's a bummer. My team does standup at 3 PM (we're also bi-
| costal), but I let the teams chose their time, and this is
| what one particular team chose. Maybe talk to some of your
| teammates, and maybe you all decide you want an afternoon
| standup, so you can hit the ground running in the morning for
| a few hours, before the interruptions start.
| interestica wrote:
| This is extra useful if your mornings are left for you to
| continue working on any problem where you had the chance to
| "sleep on it".
| hn1986 wrote:
| we changed our standups to right after lunch and this has
| helped for everyone
| atcalan wrote:
| I found that standups help crystallize social consequences in
| my VM prefrontal cortex so they help keep me honest.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| Haha yes
| Aurornis wrote:
| This exact complaint is very common among juniors I've
| mentored: A single meeting can destroy their productivity for
| hours following the meeting.
|
| The most successful advice I've found is to find a way to
| reset after meetings _without using your computer_. For
| whatever reason, they're emotionally drained after meetings.
| They get back to their computer and reach for Reddit or
| Twitter or something for a low effort snack, which then
| spirals into an hour or more of doomscrolling or
| distractions. This then translates into self disappointment
| at their low productivity, which further drives them to seek
| more cheap online entertainment and the cycle repeats.
|
| So try something else. After your standup, go for a walk.
| Don't use your phone. Do some stretches if you WFH or have a
| quiet place. Whatever you do, don't fall into the rut that
| destroys your productivity.
| omginternets wrote:
| This is an under-rated comment. I had a similar revelation
| that eventually led to the conclusion that the _computer_
| is a crucial part of the distraction, and that many
| activities are best performed at least partly without it.
| Examples include:
|
| - taking breaks
|
| - thinking through a problem
| pstuart wrote:
| Taking a walk is a good way to combine the two.
| omginternets wrote:
| Amen. Being inside all day is the other big factor, it
| seems.
| johnfn wrote:
| I've tried all these tips and more. I've gone as far as
| taking a run after meetings. Nothing really works. I've
| come to conclude that the problem is the meeting itself,
| not the way you recuperate from it.
| laurels-marts wrote:
| I don't have ADHD but I also get destroyed by meetings. I'm
| not sure if it's the fact that I was in a deep flow just
| before the meeting and it was near impossible to fully
| disconnect and actually be present or that I felt the
| meeting itself was a waste of time and the realisation I
| just clocked in 1hr of unproductive work. Often it's a
| combination of both and it can be quite distressing
| mentally.
|
| Regardless I would never allow myself to browse anything
| not work related when I'm actually working (i.e. twitter,
| reddit) even when I'm "destroyed". I think cutting the
| unproductive crap out completely when working and trying to
| find more healthy coping mechanisms is far better.
| lostdog wrote:
| I suspect the juniors are taking the meetings too
| seriously, and getting stressed during the meeting to the
| point that it's difficult to transition away after.
|
| I've had this problem too. But now that I have more
| meetings, it's become much easier to transition back to
| focused work. It's only the occasional more-stressful-than-
| usual meeting that eats up my attention for hours
| afterwards.
|
| I don't know what the solution is for most people. I guess
| this is why some people who transition manager --> IC can
| be so effective.
| klodolph wrote:
| Depends on where you are, but you can often get by, ignoring
| directives from management, if you are an active communicator
| and you're completing assigned tasks.
|
| It's still better to state your problem. I like to use the
| "non-violent communication" as a template. Something like,
| "When we have the standup, I have a hard time refocusing on
| work afterwards. I'm concerned about the impact this has on
| my productivity. Can I send status updates via Slack?"
|
| I'm not gonna pretend that this is a solution to your
| problem; I just want to sympathize and have a conversation
| about some of the strategies that we can use to fix problems
| with management that interfere with technical work.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Standups kind of destroy my flow as well. HOWEVER:
|
| - Everything destroys my flow anyway. So $# _& #$_% fragile.
|
| - Standups are 100x less destructive to my flow than random
| _unscheduled_ synchronous communication.
|
| - For management and collaboration purposes, I recognize the
| need for some kind of synchronous communication for most
| projects/jobs.
|
| - When working remotely I've found video standups help keep
| me feeling connected to humanity.
|
| - Most teams I've been on are quite understanding if you
| choose to miss standup and offer an update via Slack instead
| because you're "in the zone."
|
| So.... they suck, but they have upsides for me, and I accept
| them as kind of a "least-bad compromise solution."
| dboreham wrote:
| This is because your brain is like ChatGPT: it's in a loop
| generating the next symbol based on the prior context. You
| need to load the context up, then you're ready to generate
| symbols. If there's a BS meeting, all that context is paged
| out and now you need to re-load it. Plus there are
| motivational aspects that make "loading context some AH
| manager just blew out my brain" more difficult.
| suzzer99 wrote:
| I'm the opposite. I have ADHD and I function much better with
| meetings, talking it out with other programmers, and the
| cacophony of noise from an open office. Everything distracts
| me anyway, so I'd rather it be work stuff than my own
| thoughts about some awkward moment I had in 1995.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| It's probably because this is not an ADHD issue, but just a
| difference amongst individuals. I have ADHD and meetings do
| not really seem to impact my functions other than
| increasing urgency because I have _Total Time - Meeting
| Time_ left to do whatever task..
| granra wrote:
| This comment absolutely reads as someone with ADHD telling a
| story :D
| keyle wrote:
| I think self-deprecating humour is one and sometimes the only
| weapon against today. Glad it made you smile!
| granra wrote:
| I want to add that I've also been diagnosed with ADHD so I
| didn't mean anything bad by it :)
| PaulWaldman wrote:
| >I find that, if time allows, I get a massive productivity
| boost after 4:30pm
|
| This sounds oddly specific. How consistent is this time? If you
| start working an hour earlier does it impact the timing of your
| productivity boost?
| sedivy94 wrote:
| I experience a flow state around that time as well. Mostly
| because everyone leaves the office. 0630-0730 and 1630-1730
| have become my golden hours. Which is weird because body
| doubling is often an effective tool for me. My true "0430"
| like the parent comment is really at 2000, but I force myself
| into a normal sleep schedule and fail often.
| erosenbe0 wrote:
| Does the time change for you with season and light
| exposure? I sometimes experience this sort of thing too,
| where I will have a consistent window of productivity at an
| unusual time, but it never lasts for a more than a few
| months.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Yeah. My body/brain's natural "mental flow" time is really
| early mornings.
|
| In reality, I generally have too much external distraction
| around me in the morning to capitalize on this.
|
| So my actual productive hours are basically like, "whenever
| I am reasonably sure that everybody else will leave me the
| fuck alone for the next few hours." Which often means, "the
| end of the work day when everybody is signing off for the
| day."
| b33j0r wrote:
| I have been fired while I was off getting more insurance-
| approved stimulants.
|
| You ask us to perform unreasonably tops, then hate us for
| inventing doordash and shit because: we were smart labor, not
| cheap.
| atcalan wrote:
| In the US? EEOC would like to have a word with your employer.
| b33j0r wrote:
| I'm too old and arrogant to be litigious. I just try to
| clear the path for the next generation by equipping them
| with expectations that match reality closer than I got.
| navjack27 wrote:
| I think ADHD is the new norm.
|
| Huh? ADHD is a debilitating and disabling disorder... I don't
| think you're talking about ADHD.
| sedivy94 wrote:
| ADHD has little to no physiological markers. As the floor of
| expectations for attention and executive functioning
| continues to rise, the rate of diagnosis increases.
| fao_ wrote:
| citation needed.
|
| ADHD is a deficit in dopamine processing/production within
| the brain, it has physiological signs that we can look for:
|
| https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s11689-022-09440-
| 2
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| DSM-V and ICD?
|
| ADHD is diagnosed based on symptoms, not based on
| physiological signs. Like most diagnoses, it's a co-
| occurring set of traits we'de decided is outside of
| what's normal.
| atcalan wrote:
| Diagnosis is not the same as underlying physiological
| cause. The Browns or Vanderbilt assessments are useful
| for identifying the disorder because the symptoms are
| stereotypical.
| InSteady wrote:
| This is being investigated and may eventually become part
| of the diagnosis (if you can afford the tests):
|
| https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1
| 026...
|
| >In conclusion, a series of biomarkers in the literature
| are promising as objective parameters to more accurately
| diagnose ADHD, especially in those with comorbidities
| that prevent the use of DSM-5. However, more research is
| needed to confirm the reliability of the biomarkers in
| larger cohort studies.
|
| But yeah, generally there are a lot of conditions where
| you go report symptoms to your doctor or perhaps a
| specialist and they prescribe a treatment based on that
| alone. Testing is mostly used to rule out the really
| nasty possibilities or figure out what's actually going
| on when first-line treatments don't work.
| atcalan wrote:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:
| tex.... Correct. fMRI studies show stark prefrontal
| activation differences between ADHD and neurotypical
| brains. I have run fMRI studies for air traffic
| controllers, who have the opposite experience from ADHD.
| Very high working memory and processing speed.
| RugnirViking wrote:
| > Very high working memory and processing speed
|
| Are both of those really clinical markers for ADHD? as
| in, adhd would be expected to have low working memory and
| low processing speed? My understanding is its more about
| executive function I.E. deciding to start tasks.
|
| admittedly my experience is coloured by my own clinical
| diagnosis of adhd plus anecdotally good working memory
| and processing speed
| intelVISA wrote:
| One imagines it's like a fast CPU with great L3 cache but
| nobody plugged the actual RAM in so you gotta use
| spinning rust as swap for bigger workloads.
| tapland wrote:
| One thing I noticed: Other people would get hyper from
| coffee, I would not. My brain would calm down a lot with
| the help of caffeine.
|
| I would regularly down 3-4 red bulls (diet) in the evening
| if I knew I needed to fall asleep and sleep well. I'm not
| sure if it's been studied but anecdotal evidence from
| others seem to suggest I'm not alone and that some others
| have the same experience.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| N=1, I sleep better on stimulants than off them. No
| problem falling asleep after drinking coffee (usually it
| makes me _more_ sleepy), or even taking a prescribed
| stimulant before going to bed.
| atcalan wrote:
| There is actual research on this. So n>>1.
| intelVISA wrote:
| Same, coffee is quite sedating.
| piperswe wrote:
| Some of my best naps have been after taking amphetamines.
| My brain shuts up, and I can actually relax.
| qup wrote:
| I fall asleep halfway through an energy drink with
| surprising regularity.
|
| In my youth, I would pound a mountain dew before bed.
| sonicanatidae wrote:
| Paradoxical effects are not uncommon. My DNA is weird. I
| have lots of them.
|
| One example, is opiates make me MOVE. Most people they
| zonk out, not me. I'm ready to move your house, one brick
| at a time, with my bare hands and feel like I could knock
| it out in about an hour.
|
| Proton Pump inhibitors are common meds for acid reflux.
| About 10 years ago, I did a genetics study (I worked at
| the lab, and my data stayed mine) and learned that of the
| 7 classes of PPIs available, at that time, my body only
| works with 1. The others either have little/no effect or
| similar.
| KittenInABox wrote:
| ADHD is known to be highly hereditary and has genetic
| markets. I don't think it's normal, as it's fairly
| consistent globally (not all countries have the same access
| or culture around technology and yet ADHD occurs at around
| the same rates).
| atcalan wrote:
| People can't see it. I've had someone chastise my son for
| missing an appointment due to his calendar app not
| working while standing right in front of a wheelchair
| bound person, then proceed to a discussion of
| accommodations with the latter :|
| atcalan wrote:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:te
| x.... O.o
| FullKirby wrote:
| Being distracted (even a lot) and actually having ADHD are very
| different things
| muhblah wrote:
| Thanks, also had this discussion with a colleague (obviously
| not having ADHD) who thought he understands what I'm (having
| ADHD diagnosed) talking about and I argue he does not. I then
| almost started to doubt my own perception abilities
| _InsertHugeFacepalmHere_
| swozey wrote:
| If you ever forget or wonder if you have ADHD vs being
| inattentive, just look back at its affects on your romantic
| relationships and how much it damaged them or made them
| more difficult.
|
| How often a partner probably told you that they felt
| neglected or forgotten, or how often you'd wind up in a
| rabbit hole and forget that you also have to nourish that
| relationship.
| muhblah wrote:
| Totally agree. I stopped counting long time ago.
| _4pjx wrote:
| Oof. This hits close to home. I have ADHD and my partner
| recently ended a four-year relationship for several
| reasons but feeling neglected and like she had to fight
| to get my attention was one of them. We didn't
| consciously realize this was a major problem until it was
| too late. And now reading this thread I'm realizing wow
| yeah I really wasn't doing a good job of paying attention
| to her and her needs even though I cared a lot about her,
| now this is something to be aware of and put effort into
| changing in my next relationship.
| swozey wrote:
| It's something that I unfortunately didn't put 2+2
| together until my 30s after ruining quite a few and
| always wondering why I would be so enamored with someone
| and they never felt like I was giving them enough.
|
| And my most recent ex was anxious attached. That was
| rough. I'm far more on the avoidant side, not sure how
| much of that is upbringing vs adhd.
|
| There's a bunch of books about marriage/relationships
| with ADHD people. I haven't read any but I should. The
| lady in this video has written a bunch
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pyAfOPGKlI&t=1s
| atcalan wrote:
| This!!! ADHD is unfortunately named based on misunderstanding
| of the prefrontal cortex. It is executive function disorder.
| Similar behaviors occur from prefrontal cortex trauma.
| Barkley notes that ADHD stays so named because it is tied
| legally to entitlements.
| pc86 wrote:
| Such a minor part of your comment, but I simply cannot focus on
| anything if my apps aren't all fullscreen. I have two monitors,
| and two applications visible at any time. Right now I have this
| on one screen and a non-work YouTube video on the other (Your
| Mom's House is a great podcast btw, especially if you already
| have YT premium).
|
| I have trouble focusing, I don't think quite to the level of
| ADHD, but it would be so much worse if I had 4 or 5 apps on
| each screen.
| rovr138 wrote:
| > I don't think quite to the level of ADHD
|
| Or you found coping mechanisms. We all figure out what works
| for us. Like drinking a ton of coffee or things with
| caffeine... you're self medicating with your stimulant of
| choice.
| erosenbe0 wrote:
| That's fairly common. Think back to old school paper
| workflows or studying for school. Some people can concentrate
| with 5 books open and papers strewn all over the place.
| Others can't stand to have but one book open and one sheet of
| notes.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| You know, it's funny how different we are all when it comes
| to this.
|
| I need all my apps visible in a tiled arrangement. Shuffling
| windows shatters my flow. I _literally_ cannot have enough
| screen real estate. My dream is something like a curved 48 "
| 8K monitor filling my entire field of view at 300dpi. (Vision
| Pro?)
|
| I know a lot of people, ADHD and otherwise, like me in this
| regard.
|
| I also know a guy like you, diagnosed with ADHD FWIW, who
| takes it a little further than you. He needs his apps
| fullscreened, and can't even do multiple monitors. One
| screen, one app.
|
| I don't know how the f-- he works that way but I'm jealous.
| He's effective and has no trouble working on a 13" laptop in
| a coffee shop or whatever.
| swozey wrote:
| I had a coworker a few years ago who worked ONLY on his
| laptop. No monitors. No keyboard. No mouse. He programmed
| all day on a 13" Macbook Pro.
|
| I will never understand it because I absolutely hate having
| full screen windows and I am almost worthless working off
| my laptop when traveling. Just lots of frustration juggling
| windows back and forth. I always have 2 or 3 apps side by
| side on my 48" and I have a 28" 16:18 DualUp monitor next
| to it for long text/dev.
|
| I didn't work with him so I don't know how productive he
| _actually_ was but I 've always been curious if he kept up
| with the people who had 2-3 monitors and input devices. I
| have a hard time believing that he did but no actual idea.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Damn, that's crazy. Yeah, I don't see how that's
| physically or mentally possible. Completely alien to me.
|
| The "laptop only, one app only" guy I knew actually was
| really verifiably productive. Which again is insane. We
| were working on a big Rails monolith. A task that
| inherently involves working with dozens of files
| simultaneously and looking at things up and down the
| stack while also looking at documentation and running
| code in the browser.
| pc86 wrote:
| Not sure if you ever watch programmers on twitch, but
| check out ThePrimeagen, I think he's a perfect example of
| someone who _really_ understands his tool of choice. One
| screen, one app, one window, and he navigates through
| code bases faster than anyone I 've seen. It's a pretty
| entertaining stream too if his super high energy style
| isn't off-putting to you.
| pc86 wrote:
| I've known a few of the "one monitor, minimal peripherals"
| types as well. When I think back to the "most productive"
| (whatever that means) half dozen or so people I've worked
| with, it's a mix of both. I don't think there's anything
| inherently better or worse about either approach, just a
| matter of finding what works best for your specific mix of
| discipline, interest, and brain chemistry.
|
| I actually enjoy working on laptops directly but the
| keyboards always do me in. Just a little too cramped for my
| wrist/arms, and if I'm adding an external keyboard the
| monitor is just a bit too far away so I'm back to the
| normal docked setup.
| gosub100 wrote:
| during covid I was "overemployed" at first 2 jobs, then 3
| (which I sustained for over 8 months). Some of it was luck,
| like not having conflicting meetings, having jobs in different
| timezones, and the leniency given due to the chaos of the
| times, but I actually did get work done. But during the average
| day, I was only there to respond to slack and participate in
| meetings. I wouldn't really "work" as in write code, until
| after the sun went down (and I was west-coast working a central
| time job). I was just a body in a seat until the day was over,
| then once I knew nobody was available to pester me or expect me
| to do something, I could crack open the editor and hyperfocus.
| I also found that getting up super early, I could hyperfocus
| for an hour or 2 in the AM, then about 9-10am once all the
| meetings and bs started, I was just an actor. The rest of the
| time was juggling tasks and procrastinating, and using that
| energy to drive me to get work done. I would work saturday and
| sunday mornings (often, not always), but once my focus was lost
| I would stop. It was a hell of a time, but I learned that (like
| you) certain times of the day just weren't compatible with
| getting anything done. I dont think it's correct to say its due
| to "overstimulation" or caffeine, I think it has to do with
| brain states, and somehow knowing that I had to be available on
| slack (or had to make sure my mouse jiggler kept my status
| green) seemed to be enough to break me away from writing code.
| datadrivenangel wrote:
| Was it worth it to have multiple jobs?
| gosub100 wrote:
| For me personally, yes. I had gone into debt from gambling
| and bad financial discipline. OE allowed me to pay off all
| my debt and put a down payment on a house. Watching "number
| go down" in rapid fashion was very rewarding, and I wasn't
| a very active person to begin with so I didn't miss out on
| as much as a regular person would, being holed up in an
| apartment for virtually the whole year. But towards the end
| it had an effect on me, it definitely wasn't sustainable.
| muhblah wrote:
| This reflects exactly my day to day struggles. Especially that
| productivity boost when every one starts leaving, and I _was
| not able_ to finished the smallest one of my tasks planned for
| the day 'til then most of the time. I'm writing "was not able"
| on purpose here, because as someone (being blessed) with ADHD,
| your brain does not allow you to make progress on the smallest
| tasks due to all those fireworks being blown around you in your
| brain.
|
| During my part-time studies (I had a 70-80% employment at that
| time) the time I really started studying productively was after
| 9-10pm when everyone around me went to finish their day and the
| world around me started to go silent and night is coming in.
| Thinking of it today, I don't know how I would have survived
| that time without the huge support from my wife back then. So
| all the credits of me being able to complete my studies go to
| her!
|
| Nowadays, I would not know how I would get through the day-to-
| day work without medication most days. That often worries me a
| little.
| swader999 wrote:
| Yup, I think all the meds for this can succumb to tolerance.
| A real life Flowers for Algernon. Over the years I've upped
| the dose, switched meds, drug holidays but nothing has
| matched how well my brain worked the first couple of years on
| meds.
| muhblah wrote:
| > nothing has matched how well my brain worked the first
| couple of years on meds
|
| As someone who also has a bit more than 2 decades
| experience with ADHD medication and started with meds quite
| early in my teenage years when I went to school, I have
| very similar experience to yours.
|
| One of my assumptions is that it also has a lot to do with
| the humans metabolism that changes over the years.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| One of my assumptions is that it also has a lot
| to do with the humans metabolism that changes
| over the years.
|
| That theory makes sense to me. However, my anecdotal
| experience is that I never tried any of these meds until
| my early 30's.
|
| The first few weeks on Adderall were f'ing magical. I
| remember tearing up, I was so happy. Finally I was laser-
| focused. A bit emotional thinking of it now.
|
| The magic faded fast. Adderall was still a large net
| positive for me for ~6-7 years. But never like those
| first few weeks. I guess I got _somewhat close_ to that
| original experience a few times, after extended breaks
| from Adderall and restarting it.
|
| Anyway, this is of course a sample size of 1. But since
| all the experiences described above took place in my 30s
| I don't think that metabolism change was a major factor.
| Certainly not within the first year. Again I know... n=1
| =)
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Well, I'm jealous. For me it was literally like... the
| first few _weeks_ on adderall lol.
|
| I continued to benefit from it for ~6-7 years. But, never
| felt anything like those first few weeks.
| dhruvmittal wrote:
| > Especially that productivity boost when every one starts
| leaving, and I _was not able_ to finished the smallest one of
| my tasks planned for the day 'til then most of the time.
|
| This is super true for me as well, to the point where I
| structure my day around this. I'm lucky to have a workplace
| with flexible hours and enough seniority that nobody
| complains when I roll in at 10, which gives me a few "quiet
| hours" from 4-6 as others trickle out.
| swader999 wrote:
| I hate having stand-up early am. If you get to work early,
| there's little motivation to start anything significant just
| because you'll be soon interrupted. Mid day before lunch is
| great, you get a sleep period in between two work sessions
| which often leads to better solutions. Everyone wants to go to
| lunch so the meeting moves at a quick pace, you have lunch time
| to decompress and absorb it. There's a morning block and
| afternoon block for uninterrupted deep work. It gives people a
| flexible arrive time in the morning, they aren't struggling to
| make it in for the meeting.
| albert_e wrote:
| > 1 or 2 emails a day. Bliss.
|
| Just reading that made me feel the presence of 'bliss' :)
| Aurornis wrote:
| > I remember once I had to travel for family, to a different
| timezone, I was super productive. Only 1 14" screen and a
| different timezone. Pedal to the metal.
|
| I think the pop-culture definition of ADHD has shifted a lot.
| In the past, being able to focus well (as you described in a
| different environment) would have been a sign that the issue
| was more environmental in nature, not a sign of clinical ADHD.
| Patients with ADHD struggled _everywhere_ , even in
| distraction-free environments like a quiet library or quiet
| test taking environment.
|
| Now, the pop-culture understanding of ADHD has shifted so far
| that we don't bat an eye at declaring ADHD even when someone is
| operating under a constant barrage of environmental
| distractions. To be clear, someone with ADHD will have an even
| harder time resisting impulses to seek out distractions, but
| the fact that someone can focus just fine when their
| environment is minimally structured to keep distractions at a
| reasonable level would suggest that person doesn't have classic
| ADHD.
|
| > I think ADHD is the new norm.
|
| I think this is my problem with the current pop-culture
| definition of ADHD: When the definition shifts so much that it
| becomes the "norm", we've lost the plot. Something isn't really
| a disorder if it's "the norm".
|
| There's a secondary problem I've been noticing in a subset of
| the young people I've worked with: Some of them self-diagnose
| with ADHD or get a doctor's diagnosis, then mistakenly think
| that their ADHD diagnosis is an excuse for everything. I've had
| far too many conversations where I had to gently explain to
| juniors (via a volunteer mentor program, not as their boss)
| that having an ADHD diagnosis doesn't mean that deadlines don't
| apply them, or that they get a free pass for being late to
| meetings, or that they're still obligated to perform at the
| level of their peers at work. Some of them have grown up in an
| environment where ADHD students get extra time to take tests,
| which some of them assume should translate to more forgiving
| expectations at work. It's difficult to get some of them to
| accept that having ADHD means they need more accountability and
| oversight, not less.
|
| I think we're making a huge mistake by normalizing ADHD to the
| point that people think it's the norm or that everyone has it
| because they surround themselves with distractions.
| Anecdotally, I've seen too many young people self-diagnose with
| ADHD and then actually spend _less_ effort to curtail
| distractions, train their focus, and work on self-improvement.
| There's something about becoming convinced that your behaviors
| are a medical condition that is out of your control (many
| erroneously declare they have a "dopamine deficiency" or
| similar misunderstandings of the science) that can give people
| a false sense that they either can't improve their situation or
| that they shouldn't be held responsible because it's a labeled
| medical condition.
|
| I don't know where we go from here, but I can say it's been an
| uphill battle to get recent mentoring cohorts to accept that
| attention is something they can improve with practice or even
| that they need to do things like silence phone notifications
| while they work.
|
| I'm often stunned when I screen share with someone who has a
| non-stop stream of unimportant notifications in the top right
| corner, who later laments that they just can't focus on
| anything for someone.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| but the fact that someone can focus just fine when
| their environment is minimally structured to keep
| distractions at a reasonable level would suggest
| that person doesn't have classic ADHD [...]
| Patients with ADHD struggled everywhere, even in
| distraction-free environments like a quiet library
| or quiet test taking environment.
|
| Imperfect analogy, but this is a bit like saying that
| somebody who is able to walk with reasonable assistive
| devices doesn't have a physical disability.
|
| Like many or perhaps most things we classify as disorders,
| ADHD isn't a binary "you have it or you don't" condition.
|
| Also, what constitutes "distractions at a reasonable level?"
| Very few jobs would meet my personal definition of that.
| declaring ADHD even when someone is operating under
| a constant barrage of environmental distractions
|
| The definition of "disorder" in an individual is always going
| to be somewhat relative to the society in which that person
| lives and that person's life.
|
| A person who lightly dabbles in illicit substances once in a
| blue moon would not generally be considered to have a drug
| problem. However, this is also going to be relative to that
| person's circumstances. Are you a 23 year old with no
| responsibilities? Are you a breastfeeding mother? Are you in
| a profession with frequent random drug tests? Are you a
| shaman in a culture where psychedelics have been a sacred
| part of your culture for thousands of years? The definition
| of problematic drug use is going to be very different for
| some than others.
|
| As our society changes, and the number of assaults on our
| focus multiply, I think it is reasonable to expect more ADHD
| diagnoses.
|
| Another way to think about it is that modern (and future)
| society will _expose_ ADHD more aggressively. A farmer in
| 1923 lived a hard and demanding life, but he faced a very
| different set of cognitive challenges than a software
| engineer in 2023.
|
| Think about how changing society exposed some humans'
| susceptibility to motion sickness. Motion sickness was not a
| thing until we learned to ride animals and build vehicles.
| Perhaps someday the DSM may contain some disorders specific
| to humans living in colonies on other planets.
| I don't know where we go from here, but I can say it's
| been an uphill battle to get recent mentoring cohorts
| to accept that attention is something they can improve
| with practice
|
| A thousand times yes.
|
| I love that we've made great strides toward destigmatizing
| mental health issues. But holy shit, it feels like younger
| people wear this shit as a badge of pride and it often feels
| like an excuse to avoid actual solutioning.
|
| A loved one was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I told them
| I'll be their best friend and their toughest critic when it
| comes to ADHD. I told will love you and empathize with your
| struggles all day long because I have been fighting this shit
| for almost 50 years and it is soul-draining.
|
| I also told them, watch the fuck out. I accept zero excuses.
| We can struggle together, we can cry together, but you better
| be looking at every single facet of your ADHD through the
| lens of _figuring out a working solution._
|
| "I have ADHD!" is not an acceptable excuse or thought-
| terminator. What I want to hear is, "I have ADHD so what
| works for me is doing it _this_ way: ______ " or perhaps even
| better yet just leave off the ADHD part and tell me your
| solution. Or that you are working on the solution. I will be
| by your side for that too. But overall that has got to be
| your mindset.
| cottage-cheese wrote:
| > I think ADHD is the new norm.
|
| Maybe selection bias, but a significant number of my friends
| are diagnosed.
| atcalan wrote:
| 5% of the population have the disorder. Self selection may be
| causing you to see it as very prevalent.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| I think that may be true.
|
| I also think it's true that many professions will
| aggressively _surface_ ADHD.
|
| Imagine a plumber making house calls all day. There's a
| fair bit of structure and variety baked into his day, he's
| moving around, gets to use his hands, etc. It's hard and
| skilled work but it also might be really compatible with
| ADHD.
|
| Now think of a software engineer. 8-10 hours of monofocus
| on a single task every day. It's just you and the
| computer... which also has the largest array of
| distractions (the internet) just a click away. Fucking
| nightmare scenario for ADHD. If you've got even a hint of
| ADHD this career will expose it and expose it hard.
| plugin-baby wrote:
| I'd say nightmare scenarios would be:
|
| * PA * travel agent * event planner
| JohnBooty wrote:
| It's funny because I could see those going either way for
| ADHD individuals
|
| either nightmare scenarios or dream scenarios
|
| i've actually done some small amount of event planning,
| an annual event for about 125 people. (i realize that's
| tiny, obviously people are out there planning events for
| 100,000 people)
|
| yeah, you're constantly switching your focus back and
| forth between the 20 things that need to get nailed down
| in the next 3 months for an upcoming event. and a
| professional event planner is probably juggling ten small
| events or several larger ones. it's a juggling act but
| it's kind of fun. also you have executive freedom to an
| extent.
|
| engineering is kind of fucked because you are expected to
| do deep deep deep deep deep big-brain thinking for 2000
| hours a year, and yet you are still often bombarded with
| distractions on a minute to minute basis. absolute
| MISMATCH.
|
| event planning is chaotic by nature, and hard, and
| requires context switching, but generally no individual
| element requires hours of meditative thought and
| iteration while 3 different managers ping you on fucking
| Slack and you're also supposed to "keep an eye on
| production" and also mentor five kids who just graduated
| from a 6-week code camp like engineering does.
|
| a lot of entrepreneurs are ADHD as hell. the context
| switching suits them, especially when they are calling
| the shots.
| corobo wrote:
| There may be a little bit of birds of a feather flocking
| together on this one. Similarly my closest circle have all
| got a diagnosis of something or other. Most are in the IT
| field too.
|
| For me personally I mostly attribute this to how the circle
| initially formed - a bunch of outcasts to varying degrees new
| to college glomping on to any familiar faces from highschool
| (despite not really interacting during high school)
|
| Any additions since college were adopted into the group
| through a mutual "we're the weirdos in this world, aren't
| we?" initial bond.
| PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
| or it could be that ADHD is a spectrum with most people
| having some symptoms of it even if it's not very
| disruptive.
|
| The better question is how many of the people in these
| groups have been medically diagnosed?
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| For myself, I find I mostly can't maintain relationships with
| other people who don't have ADHD.
|
| It sounds stupid, but I will forget to talk for months and
| people just drift off, not interested in reconnecting.
|
| But other people with ADHD will reconnect after months as if
| we'd just been talking yesterday, no bad feelings of being
| ignored at all.
| lolinder wrote:
| > I find that, if time allows, I get a massive productivity
| boost after 4:30pm and everyone is either winding down or
| leaving.
|
| The most important ADHD accommodation for me has been a private
| office (in my case working from home).
|
| I'm insanely distractible--the slightest noise can throw me
| off, and even the threat of an impending interruption is enough
| to make me lose focus thinking about how I'll respond if it
| comes. In an open office, I had very little control over my
| environment, and so it was impossible for me to keep focused
| for any length of time. If it wasn't a coworker interrupting me
| personally, it was a conversation happening behind me, or even
| just someone walking by and me wondering if they're going to
| interrupt.
|
| At home, I have a private office with a locked door, and I put
| on hearing protection over earbuds, which blocks essentially
| all sounds from the house. I can control my notifications, so
| if I'm in flow I'm completely uninterruptible.
|
| The other big benefit from privacy is that I don't have to feel
| guilty when I do get distracted with something. There's no one
| to see me and judge me for not "looking like I'm working", so
| when I do lose focus for hours and then get the whole day's
| work done in a single hour of hyperfocus, no one knows or cares
| that I couldn't stay focused that day--all they see is that I
| finished what I said I would. Privacy allows me to use my
| _strengths_ (working well under pressure) without fear of
| judgement.
| qumpis wrote:
| Why not put these earbuds in the office?
| actionfromafar wrote:
| Overthinking responses to interruptions, looking for visual
| cues etc?
| wpm wrote:
| Did you not read about all the visual and social
| interruptions they talked about? Noise-cancelling for your
| eyes is called a blindfold.
| gopher_space wrote:
| The fundamental point is that I'm not putting a box on my
| head so I can cope with your open floorplan.
| smcleod wrote:
| Way too many distractions in an office, it's not just
| trying to tune out sound, it's visual, temperature,
| lighting, social, commuting etc.... They all increase your
| load.
| lolinder wrote:
| I did, but that was never enough: even 37dB ear muffs
| aren't enough to completely suppress the noise of a
| conversation happening nearby, but the ear muffs _plus_ the
| walls and the door are.
|
| And, of course, as others point out, the auditory
| distractions are only _part_ of the problem with an open
| floor plan.
| jacobyoder wrote:
| I've been in open office plans where wearing
| earbuds/headphones was seen as hostile/negative towards
| others. This was many years ago, but... not that many (in
| the mid 2000s).
| hinkley wrote:
| I have migrated toward process and disaster recovery/avoidance
| over time. In the last ten years I have spent a lot of time
| thinking about the latter because everywhere I have ever
| worked, if an emergency goes on long enough I am one of the
| last three people still having a coherent thought at the end,
| and often the only person with enough brain cells to summarize
| what just happened and propose a 5 Why's theory. Which sounds
| like bragging if you ignore the consequences of this, which is
| that I am also the last person to recover to 100% in the
| following days. Which is exactly why I'm thinking about it so
| much.
|
| I have learned at least two things about myself and a few about
| other people from all of this. For myself, I know I am overly
| acclimated to blowing past my limits into my reserves. I am
| used to constantly monitoring my mental state and pushing for
| breaks.
|
| For others, I know that adrenaline and cortisol reduce
| everyone's cognitive abilities. It's why we do fire drills.
| It's why NASA launch facilities ritualize everything. Save your
| brain cells and improvisational skills for things we can't
| predict, not for things we can.
|
| In the first hours of an emergency, everyone else's brain turns
| to mush while mine gets just a little squishy. What for them is
| their worst work day in months is to me just a bad Tuesday. And
| self monitoring is one of the first things to go. They're
| operating at 80% while I'm at 95%, and they absolutely won't
| call for breathers without prompting.
|
| On projects where I am at the periphery, we all struggle
| together. On projects where I get to influence the agenda, or
| even father chunks of it, people often walk back out of that
| room feeling like they braced for a collision that never came,
| because I've routed around all of the foot guns and created low
| cognitive load ways to answer the important questions. If
| anyone has been complaining about me spending "too much time"
| on this, about half of them are convinced after one or two non-
| event events. If the majority of the people didn't agree with
| my methods before, they do now.
|
| I used to say I spend my A-game days protecting myself from my
| C-game days, but these days I'm more likely to cite Kernighan's
| aphorism about not being smart enough to debug your own code.
| Write all of your code like you're going to have to wrestle
| with it on an off day, because you certainly will at some
| point.
|
| And putting high functioning ADHD people in charge of process
| and tooling is not a terrible idea. If you can figure out who
| those people are, that is. To be high functioning means
| constantly masking, because in this world it's better to be
| rude and aloof than to be seen as broken.
|
| On my current project our hot fix process is so bullet proof
| that I could do a hot fix in the middle of our sprint demo. And
| I have, three times. Once while I was the MC. All of that was
| me, and the automation tools I wrote for myself are the
| official process now. And instead of a bus number of 3 it's
| somewhere north of 6. Important, especially this time of year.
| imkehno wrote:
| I'm using chunk of my A-game days to improve the results of
| my B- and C-days. This means automating and simplifying
| things as much as possible. In work, hobbies and life in
| general. A-days are rare, and even though they are very
| productive, the output is mostly generated on B and C. Being
| able to progress even on the bad days shies away the
| meltdowns and burning out.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| I'm sure 90s workplaces were relatively better, but bliss? That
| was the heyday of Dilbert, _Office Space_ , _Fight Club_ ,
| _American Beauty_ , and _The Matrix_.
| s3r3nity wrote:
| > Only 1 14" screen and a different timezone
|
| Of all the optimizations I've done, moving to one
| screen/monitor ~10 years ago has been the biggest positive
| impact on my work, anxiety, and overall focus.
|
| When I was younger, I was way too naive in the memetic desire
| when seeing other more senior folks with multiple screens, or
| even seeing "hacker" representations in the media with many
| screens with different orientations (silly, I know...everyone
| is dumb when they're young.) When you're 22 and insecure about
| whether or not you're actually "good" or belong, then you try
| to mimic the "best."
| austin-cheney wrote:
| One key identifier not mentioned in the article is that ADHD, as
| well as manically depressed, people typically produce extremely
| low levels of serotonin. It is common for ADHD people to
| compensate with stimulants like caffeine and sugar.
|
| Many people crave minor stimulants in the afternoon or early
| morning when serotonin levels dip in the day. People chronically
| low on serotonin however will crave these all day long in extreme
| volumes in what looks like drug addiction seeking behavior. The
| result of such stimulant over consumption produces behaviors that
| appear like rapid bipolar disorders.
|
| This does not apply to all people with ADHD, but when you see the
| behavior in people close to you it's probably a good idea to have
| them tested.
|
| My biggest learning about ADHD is that it's not primarily about
| focus, but irregularities with task completion/transition
| deficiencies.
| helboi4 wrote:
| It's dopamine that ADHD lack and that you get from caffeine and
| sugar, not serotonin. People who are depressed do lack
| serotonin though yes. And you can have both. You can't get that
| from caffeine though.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| No, it's absolutely only about low serotonin. Dopamine spikes
| do directly result from sugar spikes, but that is the effect
| and not the cause.
| __potts__ wrote:
| I'm honestly interested in hearing the research on this
|
| Do either of you have sources?
| financltravsty wrote:
| I really dislike the neurotransmitter discussions because
| they do not differentiate between "free" or "in-transit"
| neurotransmitter levels vs. "stored" or "awaiting
| dispatch" neurotransmitter levels vs. "receptor sites" or
| "available destinations" for neurotransmitters vs.
| "receptor activation effect" or "destination's response
| on delivery." That doesn't even get into the complexity
| of different types of receptor sites or their roles in
| all the different bodily systems and organs. It leads for
| utterly confounding conversations without strictly
| delineating what everyone knows and/or assumes about the
| topic at hand.
|
| So, here is my quick and slipshod armchair theorizing:
| serum serotonin levels may be a predictor of ADHD due
| serotonin's role in activating certain autoreceptors that
| mediate dopamine release.
|
| _Does serotonin deficit mediate susceptibility to ADHD?_
| : https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S
| 01970...
|
| _Is there an Effect of Serotonin on Attention Deficit
| Hyperactivity Disorder?_ : https://repository.unair.ac.id
| /106894/1/Is%20There%20an%20Ef...
| helboi4 wrote:
| Can we all just agree though that coffee and sugar are
| dopamine not serotonin obviously? Like you don't get less
| depressed from drinking coffee.
| InSteady wrote:
| As with many behavior impairing/enhancing substances,
| there are effects on multiple neurotransmitters:
|
| >Caffeine activates noradrenaline neurons and seems to
| affect the local release of dopamine. Many of the
| alerting effects of caffeine may be related to the action
| of the methylxanthine on serotonin neurons. [1]
|
| Or take alcohol, which people typically associate only
| with GABA:
|
| >Among the neurotransmitter systems linked to the
| reinforcing effects of alcohol are dopamine, endogenous
| opiates (i.e., morphinelike neurotransmitters), GABA,
| serotonin, and glutamate acting at the NMDA receptor
| (Koob 1996).
|
| Two other things, first the notion that depression can be
| reduced down to a deficiency of neurotransmitters is
| almost certainly an oversimplification (if not outright
| incorrect). What we have is correlation, not causation,
| where GABA, stress hormones, and other mechanisms also
| show up. Second, even if this characterization of "low on
| neurotransmitters => depression" is correct, it is not
| and has never been just about serotonin:
|
| >The monoamine-deficiency theory posits that the
| underlying pathophysiological basis of depression is a
| depletion of the neurotransmitters serotonin,
| norepinephrine _or dopamine_ in the central nervous
| system. [2]
|
| [1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1356551
|
| [2] -
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2950973
| austin-cheney wrote:
| No. It over simplifies what is happening to the point of
| drawing false correlations. Low serotonin production is
| strongly linked with low dopamine production but the
| reverse is less clear. More direct to this conversation
| sugar and caffeine consumption addresses low dopamine
| directly, but this coping behavior seeks to address the
| results of low serotonin, not dopamine. People with low
| dopamine but regular serotonin also benefit equally from
| high sugar and caffeine intake, but are substantially
| less prone to seek sugar and caffeine for that purpose.
| In the end its about correcting for mood stimulus not
| task reward stimulus.
| helboi4 wrote:
| Oh I mean that makes perfect sense. You're agreeing with
| me. Caffeine and sugar give you dopamine. Of course those
| with low serotonin are likely to have low dopamine -
| being depressed makes you not want to do stuff. And I can
| also understand why being depressed would make you want
| comfort consumables more than being only low dopamine.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| 1) Serotonin reception explained -
| https://balancewomenshealth.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2020/03/T...
|
| 2) Serotonin and ADHD -
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25684070/
|
| 3) Dopamine cycle explained in context of ADHD -
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/
|
| 4) ADHD and sugar explained -
| https://www.verywellmind.com/the-sugar-and-adhd-
| relationship...
|
| 5) ADHD and sugar study -
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133757/
|
| That last one mentioned coloring agents multiple times.
| Different research has show artificial colors, as derived
| from petro-chemical processing like reds and yellows, are
| strongly linked with neurotransmitter disruption in all
| people, but the effect is an order of magnitude more
| significant in high risk children.
| deltaburnt wrote:
| Huh heard this before about caffeine but not sugar, that might
| explain why I'm an absolute sugar fiend. I'm just very lucky
| that my blood sugar isn't through the roof somehow.
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| Lack of secretaries for creative types is astounding
| findthewords wrote:
| Fingers crossed an AI secretary will double (or more) my
| productivity.
| spaceprison wrote:
| Correspondence, keeping records and making appointments are
| attention destroying activities.
|
| For a few year stretch I worked with a team project manager who
| wasn't technical at all. She'd setup the meetings that I needed
| to have, diligently take notes in those meetings and then we'd
| get together to recap everything figure out dates and all that.
| Then I'd get back to nerding out but with a ordered punch list
| that I knew Donna needed me to get done. It was the best.
|
| But the pmo wanted to do things a different way so their
| engagement model moved from embedded PMs focused on team
| deliverables to individual project focus. Now instead of Donna
| there to assist with correspondence, keep records, make
| appointments, and carry out similar tasks I had an army of
| fragmented Donnas each focused on their one thing and each
| needing oversight to understand my involvement and external
| dependencies. The move probably gave the pmo a more modern feel
| and better reporting but it killed productivity for ADDs like
| me since a large portion of my time each day became
| correspondence, keeping records and making appointments instead
| of cranking out nerd units.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| The Blinking LED,
|
| A simple Hack that still works for me after years:
|
| 1. Place a tiny LED (red or yellow) by the side of your monitor
| or virtually on the screen corner. Basically anywhere almost
| bordering your field of view.
|
| 2. Make it blink like a fast heartbeat (120-150 bpm) and
| gradually slowdown to around 60 bpm (or your slow heartbeat
| base). Make the slope approx 20 to 60 minutes (you can adjust the
| best rate by testing in 10m increments after a few days in one
| setting).
|
| Now...
|
| 3. Get to work regardless if distracted and agitated. Close all
| apps except what you need to work and BOOM!, let the magic
| happen. Without realising, your brain will try to sync with the
| light that you can barely see, calming you down and allowing you
| to go focus-mode with the task in had.
|
| Works like hypnosis!
|
| It is also a cheap hack... I build my unit with a cheap ESP32 and
| heart-rate sensor to sync deeper and dynamically adjust the
| slope...
|
| Will explain better if any interest.
|
| No science behind (only principles), I just hammered a solution
| like any Ape with the shakes would need!
| gregsadetsky wrote:
| Fascinating! A few questions:
|
| - once the LED has slowed down to 60 bpm, do you keep it at
| that tempo for the rest of the day? for a few hours? do you
| ever go back to 120 bpm and then go back down?
|
| - generally speaking, how did you come up with the idea?
|
| - do you think that a software version (i.e. some blinking
| pixels in the top right corner of a monitor) would work, or is
| the intensity of the LED (i.e. the fact that it's not part of
| the monitor) part of the reason why it works?
|
| - could you also talk about the heart-rate sensor - how do you
| use it / how does it affect the bpm algorithm?
|
| Thanks!
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Sure,
|
| Here is what I did to my current v.3+
|
| - Once it reaches the lowest rate, the LED goes off after a
| 30min timer set, it fades the light over that time under the
| same blinking rate. So I won't notice. - The Idea comes from
| desperation really, mostly curiosity on why sound beats from
| upbeat music had a effect to improve mood, i.e. work more at
| gym. Also the idea that your brain will take patterns and try
| to synch with. Check PubMed (few articles about) - I started
| with a software version (v.1 and v2) and then a hardware one.
| No idea why, but hardware (as a side device) works really
| good. I 3D printed a tiny case and it is discreetly below my
| iMac screen powered by the USB. Look like an old modem but
| tiny.
|
| Finally...
|
| - I added the heart monitor (a cheap cable and wrist sensor)
| to see if I could shorten the time to achieve the lowest rate
| of blink based on my heart response instead of waiting the
| time or trying to read brainwave pattern (I try measuring
| voltage and electric wave form, from a headband I bought and
| returned after a rapid test) but the signal would mix with
| the work in front of me, so useless and expensive.
|
| Using heart rate looks cheap, non-intrusive and effective to
| shorten the time, it goes 1/3 of time to get lowest, could
| use an apple watch vs cable and sensor but I'm cheap.
|
| ; )
| gregsadetsky wrote:
| Thanks, super interesting!
|
| There was research some time ago (jeez, 10 years ago...)
| [0] [1] that used video and... computer vision algorithms
| to detect a person's heart rate without any devices.
| Wondering if it could be used here i.e. use your webcam
| instead of an external hardware sensor?
|
| Other thing - would you be open to publishing/sharing your
| algorithm / esp32 code (on Github or as a blog article)?
|
| [0] https://news.mit.edu/2012/amplifying-invisible-
| video-0622
|
| [1] https://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/vidmag/
| TheRealHB wrote:
| We use this approach of video heartbeat detection on a
| real product (recruiting tool) but not for my hack ADHD
| device,
|
| You can't really do video detection it in real time and
| properly, without overheating the cheap device. On the
| SaaS we did we use a recorded segment of video so we can
| analyse it afterwards, check the colour changes in the
| face of the subject and try estimate heartbeat with loose
| accuracy. More like high, Normal, Low after taking a few
| seconds as base.
|
| The idea of the ADHD device was just a cheap hack done in
| a day for myself.
|
| Not a product or commercial as I don't feel claiming it
| can do to others what I looks like does to me.
|
| Happy to share here FREE ; )
| nerpderp82 wrote:
| I assume you are measuring the pulse/stress level of a
| candidate. Is this a proxy measurement for a lie
| detector?
| actionfromafar wrote:
| Dear Lord, hope not.
| SuperCuber wrote:
| I'm definitely NOT attending an interview where this kind
| of tech is used. My heart rate is irrelevant to whether
| someone should hire me - and I say that as someone who
| doesn't even get anxious or nervous during interviews.
| cmplxconjugate wrote:
| This should be a product.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Thanks for the complement,
|
| I guess you would be a client (few comments)
|
| I have hundreds of things I do and very few go to product or
| build phase.
|
| Not my view for this one as it is a personal issue. I would
| not be comfortable claiming it could do anything for others
| like it does for me. Also I'm not basing it on anything
| scientific other than raw experimental data from 1.
|
| I'm happy to share it here and FREE for everyone.
|
| I run a tiny tiny tech incubator in the UK, so hands full : )
| voisin wrote:
| Have you considered building this as a product and selling it?
| I could see this with a kickstarter or even Shark Tank!
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Hi thanks for complement,
|
| I guess you would be a client ; )
|
| No, I have hundreds of things I do and very few go to product
| or build phase.
|
| For this personal issue, I would not be comfortable claiming
| it could do anything for others like what it does for me.
| Also I'm not based on anything other than experimental data.
|
| I'm happy to share it here and FREE.
|
| I run a tech incubator in the UK, so hands full : )
| zubairq wrote:
| Great idea, where can I buy one?
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Explained before under another comment ; )
|
| ...
|
| Thanks for the complement, I guess you would be a client (few
| comments)
|
| I have hundreds of things I do and very few go to product or
| build phase.
|
| Not my view for this one as it is a personal issue. I would
| not be comfortable claiming it could do anything for others
| like it does for me. Also I'm not basing it on anything
| scientific other than raw experimental data from 1.
|
| I'm happy to share it here and FREE for everyone.
|
| I run a tiny tiny tech incubator in the UK, so hands full : )
| nonethewiser wrote:
| Seems likely to be a placebo. You have a vested interest in it
| working, admit its not based on any sort of science, and one of
| the setup steps is to overcome distraction (which is the
| problem that's trying to be solved).
| disgruntledphd2 wrote:
| > Seems likely to be a placebo. You have a vested interest in
| it working, admit its not based on any sort of science, and
| one of the setup steps is to overcome distraction (which is
| the problem that's trying to be solved).
|
| Fundamentally, if it works for the OP, who the hell cares?
|
| And how would you even double-blind test this anyway?
| autoexec wrote:
| > And how would you even double-blind test this anyway?
|
| Get lights that either start fast and slow down or blink at
| speeds that randomly change then use serial numbers to
| track which lights are which, but send them out at random
| to test subjects?
| disgruntledphd2 wrote:
| Which treatment you're in is relatively easily
| detectable, so unfortunately that wouldn't work.
|
| I like the approach though, it would be a reasonable
| control condition (assuming that the 60bpm is a core part
| of the effect).
| mattnewton wrote:
| you would blind the participants to the effect you are
| looking to measure. If they don't know what to expect or
| what conditions there are, they can still get a placebo
| effect from random patterns.
| lelanthran wrote:
| Trivially, given a small amount of money.
|
| He sees a correlation, correlations are amongst the easiest
| thing to test.
|
| Causation is the difficult one
| qzx_pierri wrote:
| Not to be too confrontational, but why did you feel the need
| to point this out? When someone has a solution that works for
| them, why possibly ruin it for them by pointing out placebo?
|
| Mind you, pointing out placebo could be useful if the OP made
| the claim that their solution could cure a disease or
| something (such claims could discourage someone from getting
| effective treatment).
| SquareWheel wrote:
| > When someone has a solution that works for them, why
| possibly ruin it for them by pointing out placebo?
|
| You are likely aware of this already, but for others
| readers, it's important to know that placebos are still
| effective even when you know they are placebo. The term is
| "open-label placebo".
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33594150/
| gosub100 wrote:
| the first time I tried antidepressants I had this effect.
| I even _knew_ about the placebo effect, and I _knew_ they
| take multiple weeks to do anything. but yet the day after
| I took the first pill I started wondering if things were
| getting better and I was trying to deny it, but it felt
| like a change. (spoiler: it had the opposite effect and
| once they took effect I could barely get out of bed lol).
| It was just incredible knowing that it was placebo but
| still feeling the effect.
| throwuwu wrote:
| It's not. It's called brainwave entrainment and it's well
| studied with both sound and light having a strong effect
| that's measurable on EEG.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Music BPM has the same effect. For me personally the right
| cadence can almost induce a flow state immediately.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Yes, it could be the placebo effect, but placebo works
| wonders ; )
|
| I detailed better aspects on a question above,
|
| Placebo need you to trust it works (or see a figure of
| authority to believe it does), in my case I expect nothing
| and got not much on v.1 (software) by v.3 (hardware) it is
| surprising.
|
| ; )
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Messed my earlier response...
|
| YES, it can be the placebo effect, but still placebo can
| works wonders ; )
|
| I detailed better aspects on questions above, also not doing
| it commercially or claiming it can be helpful for anyone
| other than me.
|
| In placebo, one needs to trust it will work (or see a figure
| of authority to believe it does), in my case I wasn't
| expecting much and got not far from it on v.1 (software), but
| by v.3 (hardware) I was surprised and used to it.
|
| So, I'm happy to share it here FREE ; )
| chipsrafferty wrote:
| Seems unlikely to be a placebo.
| j_heffe wrote:
| I believe there is research into rapid eye blinking followed
| by slow blinking causing the brain to "calm", so perhaps an
| external source has a similar effect?
| maskil wrote:
| "Make the slope approx 20-60 minutes", to be clear does this
| mean it should take that period of time to gradually go from
| 120 to 20-60?
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Yes, I started with a 1 hour slope... from 150 to 60 over
| that time.
|
| Also it is not really a blink but a quick fade in/out effect
| not a flash.
| herculity275 wrote:
| Do you have a script you could share?
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Just use any blinking LED template code that your OEM offers
| for your particular board (ESP32 or alike) as it will be
| specific for the PIN the LED is wired and libraries
| available, etc.
|
| Basically a function slope with a value from 150 to 60 that
| calls "blinks" over an hour, when at the end it turns off
| LED.
|
| You can make it smoother, add the heartbeat sensor, make it
| pulse instead of blink, that stuff will be particular to
| whatever you have at hand.
|
| GPT for such simple code after explaining the device and
| pointing to documentation should be a 3-4 shot process.
|
| My one is horribly inefficient and shameful to share : )
| chipsrafferty wrote:
| What if I don't know what any of that means? I only know
| how to code, never used a "board" but I want to try this
| flir wrote:
| Intriguing. Wonder if sound would work also.
| imposter wrote:
| I used to hear to Hucci alot back in the day because most of
| his songs would hover around 60-70 BPM, I'd gather it was
| having a similar effect.
| flir wrote:
| I use Erik Satie a lot
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pyhBJzuixM). Also ASMR
| videos of mechanical keyboards
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zq5blZL1P4). Wonder what
| a light with some randomness would do.
|
| You could hook up some physiological monitors and try all
| kinds of light patterns.
| ethanbond wrote:
| Try Endel! Works great for this type of stuff IMO.
| flir wrote:
| Does seem good. I laid it on top of some typing sounds, and
| it's a bit elevator muzak but that might be why it works.
| FrankyHollywood wrote:
| Nice idea, but sound distracts me very much, I just wanted to
| suggest a package deal: blinking led with a pair of noise
| canceling earbuds :)
| TheRealHB wrote:
| It does, but the blinking was better in my case.
|
| I used to do beats high to low, instrumental music basically.
|
| ; )
| shambulatron wrote:
| brain.fm really seems to help me out, when I remember to use
| it!
| arsome wrote:
| You could probably just implement this in software on a side
| monitor even...
| TheRealHB wrote:
| I explained above on another question, did started as
| Software (v.1 and v.2) but I guess my brain tried to ignore
| and sabotage the work on the screen, so I placed as a tiny
| device underneath (gotcha F brains!).
|
| Like tricking the brain to see as not part of the work.
|
| ; )
| koonsolo wrote:
| > Get to work regardless if distracted and agitated. Close all
| apps except what you need to work and BOOM!, let the magic
| happen
|
| Isn't this the part that actually does the heavy lifting to get
| stuff done?
| simplyluke wrote:
| Most productivity hacks are window dressing around this.
| koonsolo wrote:
| Yeah, but this blinking light is still at another level.
| I'm glad it works for the OP, but to me this really stood
| out as pretty absurd.
|
| Sounds a bit like: I have a hard time falling asleep, so I
| have this blinking light next to my bed. I take a sleeping
| pill and let the magic happen. My heart rate then syncs to
| the light and I fall asleep. This light works great!
| TheRealHB wrote:
| No really what I was trying to say but get your point.
|
| The idea is that you sit at your desk even if too agitated
| and remove the visual distractions that aren't work so your
| eyes will either look at work or the blinking led. I have an
| iPad by the side so I can't see the screen but will open from
| time to time to check emails.
|
| So, stare at the screen even if you don't feel like it and
| try 1o-15min.... if you forget and realised an hour passed
| and the blink stoped it... then it worked!
|
| ; )
| ark4579 wrote:
| oh sh*t. here we go again. another IoT that I would love to
| start and then abandon for some reason knowing full well how
| fix it but not find the "time" to do it.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| I Did't get this one...
|
| It is not broken, it works, I just don't feel it should be a
| commercial product as I'm not comfortable in claiming it can
| do what it does for me.
|
| Happy to share FREE here,
|
| ; )
| makeworld wrote:
| Reminds me of this:
| https://jacobshapiro.substack.com/p/teaching-at-the-brains-t...
| lelanthran wrote:
| What would be really useful is a follow-up study that used
| GPs LED optical trick to influence the brainwave frequency.
|
| IOW, set the frequency to a known external stimulus, and see
| if the effect still holds.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Interesting stuff indeed!
| sonicanatidae wrote:
| OMG. I could not do this. I hope it's useful to others, but not
| for me...at all.
|
| The biggest distraction for me, when working/focusing, is
| movement at the edge of my vision. You know, like most websites
| with their moving ads, or fly-out videos that no one asked for,
| etc.
|
| I'm glad you found your silverbullet, but that specific
| approach would wreck my productivity.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| I don't recommend my solution BUT
|
| Your description is close to what I experience at times, that
| blinking thing may help you ignore outside the monitor
| distractions as it is there forcing you to ignore?
|
| Interesting,
|
| Do one and tell me ; )
|
| I cost me $25 or less.... all spares ESP32 (most of them has
| a LED pinned anyways) and don't bother the heart monitor
| initially, just set time and rate of descent for the blink.
|
| Cheap test...
| sonicanatidae wrote:
| I'm fortunate in that I can control my office enough that I
| can simply eliminate the distractions. For the rest,
| there's pihole, Brave and Ublock. ;)
|
| I may try this, as an experiment, but going into it, I'm
| expecting a fail. If I do try it, I'll follow up.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| You can't lose as even if it does not work much for you,
| you will get the building pleasure for sure.
| sonicanatidae wrote:
| Agreed and part of why I'm a career long SysAdmin is I
| like to tinker. :)
| jblezo wrote:
| Nice tip. Thanks for sharing. I'll probably try this by making
| a cheap one with one of my kids' microbits. This seems like the
| perfect board for doing this.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Its a simple project and yes, microbit will be fine!
|
| Good luck!
| atcalan wrote:
| Sounds like a time timer. The ventromedial pfc is the culprit
| here. Time blindness.
| TheRealHB wrote:
| It's like a maestro, guiding you down with light not sound or
| words. So, yes. Done at PFC level probably ; )
| scns wrote:
| I like Binaural Beats for this, plenty of Apps on offer.
|
| Started out with this one and hacked a bit on it, never
| published my version though:
| https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.binauralbeat...
|
| Now i'm pretty content with this one:
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.project.rb...
|
| And this tune, it now is on my phone and every PC thanks to
| NewPipe.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6WNB9JN_2o
| TheRealHB wrote:
| Yes, it could be the placebo effect, but placebo works
| wonders ; )
|
| I detailed better aspects on a question above,
|
| Mostly when I added the heart monitor, somehow I can measure
| that the time to lowest blink got shorter and I'm not paying
| attention to the device at all.
|
| When I realise it us OFF I can see the logs and see how long
| it take vs the heartbeat to sync.
|
| Also, I build myself so I like there was no marketing or
| product to trust, just test and adjust.
| JaDogg wrote:
| Oh no, now this is going to distract me until I built such
| blinking LED :(
| swah wrote:
| Found an use to my m5stick C+ , will try this
| timsayshey wrote:
| Inspired by this post I threw together a new open source
| desktop app that has an annoying always on top window that has
| a flashing timer, this seems to accomplish the same thing.
| https://github.com/timsayshey/cringe-clock
| smithcoin wrote:
| How were you able to manage the window always being on top? I
| thought you had to disable SIP for that on MacOS.
| timsayshey wrote:
| In Electron it's super easy. Just set alwaysOnTop to true:
| https://github.com/timsayshey/cringe-
| clock/blob/main/src/bac...
| kristianp wrote:
| Why does the rate have to start high and slow down?
| 28304283409234 wrote:
| Would some blinking pixels in a corner of the screen not also
| work?
| pwillia7 wrote:
| This is great! So many people in the ADHD community don't dig in
| enough into the 'superpower' side of it, so I'm super glad you
| covered that here. We can't get rid of the bad parts so I think
| it's extra important to lean into the good parts too.
|
| I will also share this Historia Civilis video on the history of
| work, which really resonated with me as an ADHD person -- It's OK
| and even more 'natural' to have fast and slow days.
|
| And I will say, for me, Obsidian was another red herring. When I
| see Gwern's blog I dream about my ordered note taking life and I
| tried for about a year to do that with obsidian. I took a lot of
| notes, but I don't read them and they do nothing for me.
|
| I ended up after a lot of trial and error with a bookmarklet that
| lets me take notes right in a browser window paired with a real
| planning app like tick tick or Google keep or whatever.
|
| The quick notes are good for when I'm trying to avoid my other
| Todo list because there's something I don't want to do on it but
| I still need to take other notes.
|
| Here's the bookmarklet I started with:
| https://gist.github.com/clisamurai/1f355b6028c8b9d1836b4ca01...
| qiine wrote:
| hum the bookmarklet trick is clever, I suppose It should be
| able to sync to other device using a firefox account
| FuckButtons wrote:
| I think many people in the adhd community don't think it's a
| superpower, which is why we don't dig into that. As someone who
| was diagnosed later in life the profundity of what adhd has
| cost me cannot be overstated. It is not a superpower, it is my
| worst enemy.
| 93po wrote:
| Same. My adhd has made me a decent developer despite very
| much not wanting to do that sort of work. However it has
| absolutely destroyed my life and relationships and my ability
| to even sit down and get dev work done. I'm currently on my
| third "sabbatical" of my life because I'm incapable of
| working right now. I've been jobless close to three years of
| my adult life now - not because I was ever fired, but because
| I'm incapable of managing my adhd well enough to work. I'm
| trying extremely hard
| sureglymop wrote:
| Instead of taking many notes I just only use the daily notes.
| Its basically one continuous stream that also represents the
| stream of time. So I could very easily scroll down a few days
| to see what I did then and if I need to look something up (I
| have all the days in one continuous view). Works well for me
| although sometimes its hard to separate work from personal
| notes this way.
| navjack27 wrote:
| Being diagnosed at the age of two with pretty severe ADHD I do
| not consider my disabling disorder a superpower in the least. I
| could see it as something if I was more naive that could be
| exploited by my employer if I had one and if I let myself into
| a situation like that and that would be damaging to me if I let
| that happen. I'm sure I could be really productive if I don't
| take care of myself for an extended period of time to finish a
| project using all of The fuel in my tank multiple times a month
| but I really don't ever want to be in that situation because
| that's basically where danger lies.
| rlemaitre wrote:
| Hi, author here,
|
| > This is great! So many people in the ADHD community don't dig
| in enough into the 'superpower' side of it, so I'm super glad
| you covered that here. We can't get rid of the bad parts so I
| think it's extra important to lean into the good parts too.
|
| Thanks for your comment, that's what I wanted to express. We
| can't run away from the bad parts, so let's try to deal with it
| and find some stuff to help us.
| Podgajski wrote:
| I read that whole thing and didn't read one word about nutrition?
|
| I've come along way to understanding the nutritional metabolic
| pathways that may increase the symptoms of ADHD.
|
| Pyridoxine, or B6, is the most studied nutritional factor when it
| comes to reducing ADHD symptoms. I'm not saying this is the only
| cause of ADHD, but if this works other things might work as well.
| Zinc is a good possibility on the list also.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/
|
| According to our data, multi-year pyridoxine treatment normalizes
| completely the pattern of ADHD behavior, without causing any
| serious side effects.
| viraptor wrote:
| https://sci-hub.hkvisa.net/10.1016/j.mehy.2013.11.018
|
| While it discusses multi-year treatment, the paper says "After
| several weeks of such treatment the pattern of behavior in ADHD
| patients is normalized." which feels like something that could
| be easily tried out. Since it was published in 2013 I'd expect
| _some_ follow-up? (checking for citations now)
|
| Edit: Sadly, "No Tryptophan, Tyrosine and Phenylalanine
| Abnormalities in Children with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity
| Disorder" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777504/
| 2016, larger study. (although they measure the amounts rather
| than ratios, so not exactly the same idea)
| Podgajski wrote:
| Nutritional studies are hard to get funding for in the first
| place, never mind the follow-ups.
|
| They found nothing in the study, because IMI they were
| measuring the wrong neurotransmitters. Dopamine is not the
| cause of the symptoms. It has to do with glutamate and GABA
| Balance. Since stimulants can control effect glutamate and
| GABA as well as Dopamine , that's why there is all the
| confusion.
|
| B6 also plays a role in glutamate GABA balance through
| stimulating the glutamate dehydrogenase enzyme.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5545734/
| viraptor wrote:
| It looks like you have a whole stash of related papers. If
| you could send all those links, I'd really appreciate it.
| Podgajski wrote:
| They all stashed my brain after years of researching
| nutritional psychiatry.
|
| As far as ADHD goes, I just suggest searching both PubMed
| and Google scholar for ADHD, glutamate and GABA.
|
| I think glutamate and GABA play a larger, or fundenental
| role, in most psychiatric disorders.
| InSteady wrote:
| May be a part of why so many people with psychiatric
| disorders (especially undiagnosed or untreated) often use
| nicotine and/or alcohol to cope. They both interact
| heavily with the GABAergic system. Alcohol also inhibits
| the activity of glutamate and reduces extracellular
| levels in certain brain regions. Too much glutamate in
| the brain can cause 'failure of different
| neurotransmission systems' and is neurotoxic.
|
| It's too bad self-medicating with these substances comes
| with such awful downsides.
| Podgajski wrote:
| Ethanol is my go to medication. It's the only calcium,
| sodium, and potassium ion channel blocker that can enter
| the brain. These are implicated in bipolar disorder which
| I have. The trick is to not abuse it just like any other
| medication.
|
| I also have labile hypertension and it's the only
| medication I can take that controls my blood pressure
| spikes.
|
| I feel the same way about nicotine, although I can't take
| it because it turns me to up. Nicotine is a stimulant and
| can be used as a medicine in lower doses. The problem is
| that people used to do and that sets up the addiction
| cycle.
|
| I definitely have an issue with a very high
| glutamate/GABA ratio. My other go to medicine is Klonopin
| which I use only when I'm in a severe crisis. Like when I
| had a delusional psychosis when I had Covid.
| rlemaitre wrote:
| Hi, author here,
|
| Nutrition is very important indeed, but it has always been a
| problem for me. I wanted to focus on things I tried and worked
| on me. Of course, it's not perfect, but at least the points I
| listed made the things better for me. Everybody's different, so
| it's not a silver bullet, just my personal journey.
| Podgajski wrote:
| Can you explain more about how nutrition is an issue for you?
|
| Would you ever consider getting your serum B6 levels tested?
| It's pretty cheap and you can do it without a doctors
| prescription if you're in in the United States.
| feydaykyn wrote:
| The topics you're struggling with would be a great addition
| to the article, if only so that you can reread it later and
| check whether it had changed.
| natsucks wrote:
| or smartphone use, which is correlated with emotional
| dysregulation.
| ShamelessC wrote:
| I love how this community has such a disproportionate number of
| people who have ADHD. It's almost like programming is actually
| just incredibly difficult to pay attention to for any normal
| human being and the field is competitive enough that people
| basically have to find a way to get a prescription for
| stimulants.
|
| (Honestly not trying to discredit anyone actually suffering from
| ADHD, just seem implausible to me that so many have it given that
| programming also just requires an unhealthy amount of attention
| to finish tasks in a "timely" manner).
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| To make it broader, neurodiverse conditions, autism spectrum
| being the other one; no surprise there's a lot of overlap
| between ADHD and ASD when it comes to some of the symptoms.
| ShamelessC wrote:
| That honestly just isn't a stereotype I see play out in
| reality aside from the sort of "pop" coders like Carmack and
| Stallman. Like I've met neurodiverse coders, but in roughly
| the same proportion as I meet neurodiverse folks in other
| facets of life.
| sureglymop wrote:
| It may also be that many individuals who are on the autism
| spectrum also present with comorbid ADHD. And that things like
| coding, solving logic puzzles, rationality etc is
| disproportionately more interesting to people _somewhere_ on
| the autism spectrum. But.. I don 't know.
| fredgrott wrote:
| From someone that actually has ADHD and has finally got it under
| control:
|
| 1. Our genetics means that one gene producing double the dopamine
| uptake receptors and a combo of other genes messes with something
| else (50% of all ADHDers have an anxiety disorder either GABA or
| serotonin based). In fact that is why ADDERALL is not addictive
| for us but is addictive to a normal person with the normal count
| of dopamine uptake receptors as cocaine, meth, etc. work on the
| TAART stretch of the dopamine uptake receptor. 2. Dopamine
| analogs plus coffee troopics tend to work at getting leverage to
| put time org and note org on top. My stack is: -30 mg caffeine
| taken one to 2 hours after waking when cortisol starts decreasing
| -green tea extract -maca extract -vitamins through fenugreek
| -dopamine analog via goji berries -L-theanine to stretch the 2
| hour caffeine effect to 6 hours
|
| Note for non ADHD people your cortisol starts decreasing after
| you wake about 1 to 2 hours after waking as this is what made
| caffeine drinks a habit. It is not wrong to take caffeine an hour
| or two after waking or at 10 am. You just should follow it up
| with the weak EGCG found in green tea and L-theanine to make it
| stretch to 6 hours.
| morbicer wrote:
| Ashwagandha is also great legal supplement for mental clarity
| and focus
| jawon wrote:
| What does "vitamins through fenugreek" mean? And are you just
| eating regular goji berries or using an extract?
| Uptrenda wrote:
| I've gone through the process now of being reviewed for ADHD both
| in Australia and the US, and I can say Australia really makes the
| process nightmarish.
|
| To start with: the meds are so restricted ordinary doctors / GPs
| can't prescribe them. And trying to bring up 'ADHD' may get you
| labeled as a 'drug seeker.' But let's say you get an appointment
| with a psychiatrist (the ordained ministers who can write
| stimulant prescriptions) - wait times can be anywhere from 3 - 6
| months. Upon which you're not guaranteed to be taken seriously
| because psychiatry isn't an exact science and not every doctor
| even acknowledges everything in the DSM.
|
| In the state that I'm in I had to be drug tested before and after
| getting on ADHD meds. Before to make sure that I wasn't a drug
| seeker. And after to confirm I was taking the meds and not
| selling them. My doctor then had to apply for a special license
| just to write my script. He did this by writing a letter full of
| supporting clinical information and applying for the license to
| issue the script. So after all that effort (easily 9+ months) you
| get the chance to be given meds by such a doctor. But currently
| there are supply chain shortages so many people aren't even able
| to get their meds.
|
| My US experience (much shorter):
|
| When I was in the US I used a telehealth app on my phone to speak
| to a amazing clinician who specialized in ADHD (google some or
| this looks like shilling.) I had my meds not long after that. I
| currently don't bother with medication though because although it
| works exceptionally well: I can't sleep on them. I'd say to US
| people - have a look at some of the apps out there. You'll want
| to go with people who can actually prescribe and not
| psychologists.
|
| Keep in mind there are other reasons that can cause concentration
| issues (depression and insomnia are examples.) It would probably
| be better for most people not to have ADHD as other illnesses are
| potentially easier to treat with less side effects.
|
| ((I really liked the conciseness, typography, and artwork in the
| article, by the way.))
| throwaway2990 wrote:
| It's a good thing Australia takes it seriously. Every man and
| his dog thinks he has adhd now-a-days.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| It's better to have a diagnosis either way to be honest. If
| you have it and were undiagnosed for decades, you will
| finally have an answer to why you're different, and as some
| that took medication for the first time, it can finally go
| quiet in your head.
|
| And if you don't have it, then you can look at other causes
| for your problems. Because _nobody_ (and /or their dog) will
| think they have ADHD unless they have identified a problem
| first.
| throwaway2990 wrote:
| 100%. I'm glad Australia appears to be doing an actual
| diagnosis rather than just prescribing drugs.
|
| All kids are different. Some kids can sit and read for
| hours. But some kids need to do physical stuff. Schools
| don't cater for the latter. Gone are the days of learning
| wood work and metal work, cooking, sewing. Kids don't do PE
| class like they used to. We try to ram all kids through the
| same meat grinder and when one resists we try to dumb them
| down with drugs and force them through. These kids are
| probably WORSE off being on drugs and shoved through the
| meat grinder than had they dropped out and done a trade
| skill instead. Nope it's adhd and we got to drug them up
| and in most cases it's a visit to the doctor and "do you
| have adhd" "I think so" "good enough for me here take this
| drug that I get paid to prescribe you"
| mFixman wrote:
| My therapist recently diagnosed me with ADHD. I strongly disagree
| with that diagnosis, and I realised I don't know what ADHD
| actually is and that the internet and this article haven't been
| of any help.
|
| I can relate to everything that this article says, but I suspect
| this is true of every single person with a mentally challenging
| job.
|
| HN is full of developers complaining about open offices and
| useless meetings; do all of them have ADHD? Otherwise, what's the
| difference between a ADHD developer and a regular developer?
|
| I _do_ have specific body problems that make my work harder, such
| as a very strong noise sensitivity and a circadian rhythm that
| requires me to sleep longer than the average person. Dealing with
| those specific problems did much more than throwing my hands in
| the air and yelling "ADHD".
|
| Instead of a 2000-word article that might have been generated by
| AI, I would just follow these three points.
|
| 1. Sleep 9-10 hours every night.
|
| 2. Strong exercise regularly.
|
| 3. Work somewhere quiet and pleasant.
| viraptor wrote:
| > complaining about open offices and useless meetings; do all
| of them have ADHD?
|
| There's a commonly used diagnosis survey you can check. It
| should give you a better idea than this.
|
| > ADHD developer and a regular developer
|
| To give you one example (but this won't cover all cases /
| everyone's experience), if you're in the bathroom and think you
| need to change the toilet roll, then proceed to forget and
| remember it again 6 times before leaving the room, then head
| for the toilet roll stash, forget about it and go make yourself
| a sandwich instead... and that applies to almost everything you
| do throughout the day, you're probably in category 1 not 2.
|
| For medication, another example would be when you take
| stimulants and get relaxed, less nervous and feel like you
| could finally go for a nap...
|
| What I'm saying is, some people may be experiencing smaller
| issues for the same reason, or they may just not be satisfied
| with their environment and are able to act on it, but there's
| some threshold where it's not even the same category. If you
| don't know what ADHD actually is, maybe check the experiences
| written by people who do struggle with basic things daily while
| seemingly highly functioning otherwise? There's a number of
| subreddits where you can find them.
| enragedcacti wrote:
| > HN is full of developers complaining about open offices and
| useless meetings; do all of them have ADHD? Otherwise, what's
| the difference between a ADHD developer and a regular
| developer?
|
| Diagnostically speaking? The number of symptoms and the
| severity of those symptoms is basically it. Everyone will
| likely experience some of the symptoms of ADHD during their
| life. The co-occurence of those symptoms and the amount they
| affect your ability to function day-to-day is what makes the
| difference.
|
| Some people will debate over how "real" ADHD is, where real
| means people with ADHD are a disjoint group and not just people
| on the very low end of the "ability to focus" bell curve. From
| my research I do believe it is "real", but that whether ADHD is
| "real" like sickle cell anemia is real or its just part of a
| normal bell curve doesn't really matter because society isn't
| going to adapt around you. If medication is what make the
| difference to maintain a normal life for some then that's
| probably a good thing that its available. If people who don't
| _" really"_ have ADHD can learn strategies for focus and time
| management that's also a good thing.
|
| > Dealing with those specific problems did much more than
| throwing my hands in the air and yelling "ADHD".
|
| For a lot of people, dealing with their specific problems
| starts with recognizing what those problems are and identifying
| strategies to help. Diagnosing it gives validation that its
| something concrete you can work on, gives access to mental
| health professionals who can help you develop solutions, and
| creates a community of people all trying to solve similar
| problems.
| coolThingsFirst wrote:
| How does noise sensitivity manifest for you? Do you get
| severely anxious because of it or is it just a distraction?
| mFixman wrote:
| Noise generates a very physical feeling of pain that tires me
| down and makes it impossible to focus.
|
| It's the equivalent to having somebody constantly punch me in
| the face: it's annoying and distracting at first, and it
| eventually turns into tiredness and lack of motivation to do
| anything other than leaving the room I'm currently in to
| breathe some fresh air.
|
| I understand this is something that happens to everyone
| (which is why so many people dislike open offices), but I
| have good reason to believe my noise sensitivity is worse
| than average and that it has been so since I was a kid.
| voisin wrote:
| Worthwhile read on the topic: Dr Gabor Mate's " Scattered Minds:
| A New Look at the Origins and Healing of Attention Deficit
| Disorder"
| Eumenes wrote:
| TIL using calendars and to-do lists means you have ADHD
| codingdave wrote:
| No, that isn't what the article said.
|
| It said that calendars and to-do lists help cope with ADHD, not
| that everyone who uses them has ADHD.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Ironically, it's easy to forget to put things in a calendar
| or on a todo list.
| aeonik wrote:
| More irony:
|
| - Forgetting to look at the calendar
|
| - Forgetting to look at the to-do list -> Make a different
| to-do list
|
| - Have 10+ to-do lists
|
| - Forgetting what the to-do even refers to
|
| - Discover emacs org mode, it can link everything together
| -> constantly forget emacs key bindings
|
| - Use logseq/obsidian instead -> forget which names/links
| refer to projects -> have 10+ aliases referring to
| different perspectives of the same project
|
| I need static types, logic programming, graph search
| algorithms, and a bit of AI, to help save me.
|
| Also, it'd be nice if modern software was easier to
| interface with. Needs more support for deep linking and
| syncing. The "walled garden" approach is anathema to
| solutions that can help ADHDers.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Even more irony:
|
| - "Forgetting" to look at the calendar, or to-do list, or
| your phone reminders, or a list written in large letters
| on a whiteboard behind your desk.
|
| I seem to have a cognitive equivalent of an ad blocker,
| my mind will literally erase any task list from
| existence, the moment I start getting even slightly
| anxious about it. It's like a magic spell - I can put the
| list in front of my face, and my eyes will just keep
| glossing over it, like if it was a tear in reality.
| hasbot wrote:
| A little off topic, but I recently realized I've been stimming
| for decades. I don't fidget or do any of the standard stimming
| techniques. What I do instead is explore the space I'm in with my
| eyes. Like right now, staring at a pen on my desk, after a few
| seconds my eyes start to explore other objects on my desk.
| mathieuh wrote:
| I used to think I had some ADHD symptoms: growing up I never did
| any revision for any of my school exams until a couple of days
| before, all my coursework and projects were done last minute in a
| week of intense focus, I've had issues with drugs in the past
| etc.
|
| Then I met someone who actually has ADHD and saw them before
| they'd taken their stimulant drugs. They were completely
| nonfunctional in any sense of the word, they'd be trying to have
| five conversations with you at once and it took them about 30
| minutes to put their shoes on, it looked like absolute hell.
|
| Next to that I really don't have any issues and I don't think I'd
| be able to handle being prescribed psychoactive drugs.
|
| Ever since meeting that person I've been a lot more hesitant to
| self-diagnose problems.
| slipperlobster wrote:
| Note that ADHD can manifest physically, mentally, or a
| combination of the two. I've been recently diagnosed with ADHD
| in my late 30s after finally seeing a psychiatrist, and at most
| my physical manifestation of it is minor fidgeting.
|
| Where it really burns me is not being able to dedicate
| brainpower for more than a few minutes at a time, unless I'm in
| one of my "focus" modes. Similarly, my brain constantly has
| multiple tasks/"conversations" going on and I'm always thinking
| of something else. Additionally, I'm always chasing something
| novel to satisfy some dopamine hit.
|
| I've honestly worked around a lot of the issues I deal with
| prior to being diagnosed, knowing when I'm not in a "focus"
| mode and trying to (gently) steer back to being productive. I
| joke about my "gaming ADHD" where I don't sit with a game for
| more than a half hour or so before moving on to something else.
| Internal dialogues are just something I work with.
|
| Not saying you're right or wrong, but it's difficult to compare
| someone else's problems with your own (potential) issues.
|
| e: Also note that there are non-stimulants on the market. I'm
| currently trialing one while I wait for a cardiologist to
| review some records for possible stimulant conflicts.
| 93po wrote:
| Just one data point but my psychiatrist said that in his in
| clinical experience he's never seen the non stimulants help
| slipperlobster wrote:
| Yeah, mine said it's ~50/50 shot. We're trying the non-
| stimulant while waiting on the cardiologist to do a deeper
| look at a potential heart issue. _shrug_
|
| The most I've felt with the atomoxetine is a loss of
| appetite, which I'm not opposed to for the time being :)
| gosub100 wrote:
| Did you have the inability to read books? I notice that I
| simply cannot focus on reading a book to save my life. I can
| read internet comments and articles all day though. If I try
| to read a book I get annoyed that they're "not making their
| point" fast enough, especially with fiction and visual
| descriptions of people and places. I used to just complain
| about it, but now I wonder if thats actually pinpointing
| something wrong with my brain (such as ADHD). If I'm reading
| fiction, I do not translate the word "red" with the color,
| things like that. And usually within 2-3 paragraphs, my eyes
| are reading the text but my brain is thinking about computers
| or what I need to get done that weekend. It's awful because
| I'm missing out on an entire mode of art but I dont know what
| to do about it. I've only been enthralled in a book once or
| twice in my 40 years of life.
| slipperlobster wrote:
| My issue with reading is that my eyes will continue on
| while my brain has already left the station, so to speak.
| I'll end up having to go back and re-read
| sentences/paragraphs.
|
| I started doing some research (prior to speaking with my
| psychiatrist) and started noticing some ADHD-esque
| behaviors in my toddler. I'm not looking to get them
| diagnosed (yet?), because who knows what is "normal young
| kid inattentiveness and hyperactivity" versus anything
| else, but ADHD is absolutely hereditary and a family
| history is one aspect that is/was used to diagnose.
|
| This is a good resource I've read (well, listened to the
| audiobook of..): https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-
| Revised-Recognizin...
| gosub100 wrote:
| I think your situation (especially with your child)
| outlines one of the insidious challenges we face in our
| modern society: breaking through the confusion and
| understanding the nuance of an issue (in this case,
| ADHD).
|
| We've all heard the misinformation tropes "Back in _my
| day_ , a kid was hyper because he wanted to _play_ ,
| nowadays $BOGEYMAN says those kids need to be medicated
| so they can get a 4.0", and they sound so alluring to
| large groups of people, so they write off ADHD
| altogether. Yet I distinctly remember kids from my
| childhood who could not hold a conversation, they would
| literally break off into a new topic while you were mid-
| sentence with them. Tell me how that kid can _possibly_
| learn anything if he doesn 't even know that he vacated a
| conversation.
|
| This is a parallel to George Carlin's "It's called
| _shell-shock_ " spiel, or used by people to deny the
| existence of depression. It's very difficult to both
| convey nuance, and get people to accept it, even though
| it (the nuance) abuts life-threatening issues.
| slipperlobster wrote:
| > Yet I distinctly remember kids from my childhood who
| could not hold a conversation, they would literally break
| off into a new topic while you were mid-sentence with
| them.
|
| I have some variant of this - I'm constantly,
| subconsciously cutting in during someone else's sentence
| just to blurt out what immediately came to my brain,
| because I usually forget it by the time they are done.
| It's something I'm really working on, but it gets better
| day-by-day.
| bitwize wrote:
| For people my age it was "Back in my day, people applied
| good old fashioned discipline. That's all ADHD is, a lack
| of discipline." Often discipline came via the strap or
| similar.
| sumthingsumthng wrote:
| take good care of the kids nutrition. read up on it. take
| it serious. let it eat clean. don't fuck this up.
|
| the connection between ADHD and nutrition is brutally
| underrated, in terms of amounts per meal, intake of food
| additives and the mix as well. if starchy carbs, then
| very little fat and little protein. if meat, then no
| bread, no potatoes, no noodles or similar stuff at all.
| veggies are always fine except if the digestion of the
| kid says otherwise. sugar is a tricky thing. timing is
| important in terms of time of day and time after food
| intake but it works bad after some foods, which is
| different depending on geographical origin of
| grandparents.
|
| you don't need to point a camera on the kid or anything.
| the effects of foods and the stuff that the body releases
| to digest the different compounds on body and brain
| become obvious within an hour or two. but you need to
| know the baseline(s) of your kid, e.g. time of day, after
| activities, around certain people, in places, crowds,
| moods, etc. make sure you do.
| tayo42 wrote:
| I have this happen, I noticed reading is something I kind
| of need to practice. Maybe short comments ruined my brain
| lol.
|
| I started getting into reading long books again last year.
| The beginning was rough, I was starting to think there was
| something wrong me. Sometimes I still do, but just being
| consistent and not hard on my self, I'm able to focus
| longer on reading and enjoy it. Some books and authors are
| easier then others too. LOTR series was work at times,
| enders game was pretty easy.
|
| Alot if non fiction sucks too though and is pretty long
| winded.
|
| If your worried about missing out on writing, there are
| short stories, and novellas to read
| tstrimple wrote:
| I can read novels I'm interested in. I read a lot of sci-fi
| and fantasy, but DNF a LOT of books that I cannot get into.
| My wife cannot _not_ finish a book. Doesn 't matter how bad
| it is, if she starts it she will eventually make her way
| through the book. She may put it down for a while and read
| something else in between but she persists. Regardless, we
| both average a little over a book a week. The game changer
| for me was shifting from reading at night (often well into
| the morning) to switching to audiobooks that I can listen
| to while hauling kids around, working in the garage or
| doing chores. Now I can DNF audiobooks because the narrator
| pronounces a word weird.
| swozey wrote:
| I read a ludicrous amount of books as a kid. Stuff like The
| Wheel of Time, 1000+ page books.
|
| Now I just buy books and don't read them. I'll also buy
| audiobooks and bounce between them not really remembering
| much of the plots until I fall asleep.
|
| I think the instant gratification of refreshing
| reddit/digg(rip)/instagram and having completely new things
| to see/read has destroyed my long term attention span.
|
| I don't really like watching TV or playing consoles without
| having my laptop on my lap so that I can multitask and if I
| get bored for a minute refresh and see new things. It's
| bad. I'm single right now so I haven't actually used my
| living room TV in months. I do everything on my computer.
|
| I feel claustrophobic if I can't multitask.
| P_I_Staker wrote:
| I think this is pretty common. I can read certain rare
| books that really capture my attention, and often I read
| hundreds of pages at a time.
|
| Typically, requiring complete silence.
| phantom784 wrote:
| This is me now, but I used to be great at reading books as
| a kid/teenager.
| gnicholas wrote:
| You might check out BeeLine Reader (I am the creator). [1]
| It's fairly popular in the ADHD community because it
| enhances visual focus while you're reading. Some people are
| able to read for 2x-10x as long with BeeLine versus
| without. I'm always happy to help out HNers with a free
| code for our browser plugin, just shoot me an email
| (contact in profile).
|
| 1: http://www.beelinereader.com
| gardnr wrote:
| If you run Lighthouse against that website it will
| provide actionable suggestions for improving it. More
| info:
| https://developer.chrome.com/docs/lighthouse/overview/
| gnicholas wrote:
| Appreciate it -- will take a look!
| vorticalbox wrote:
| I am the same, I found a book I could hyper focus on. That
| was the Chaos Walking by Patrick Ness
|
| I was so fully pulled into that world I was quite sad once
| I got to the end because I know I'm not probably never
| going to find a book like that again.
|
| I do this with most texts I have to read each sentence 3-4
| times because I know I will have made up half of the words
| I just read.
|
| I have the same issue with my brain not really thinking
| about the current situation, if I'm talking to someone I
| will get bored in a minute or two and it's a real effort to
| force myself to pay attention.
| gibagger wrote:
| There are degrees to everything, and the same psych disorder
| can manifest in very different ways in different people.
|
| I have been diagnosed with generalised anxiety disorder. I
| "worry too much", in general, and have the odd panic attack or
| two per year. Some people have it bad enough they get these
| attacks daily.
|
| That does not mean I don't have it or that it does not affect
| me, it just means it's mild in comparison to them, but my
| anxiety is still high compared to the average person when
| untreated. It does not have to be crippling to affect you.
| dijit wrote:
| Well.
|
| 1. Self-diagnosis is not a diagnosis.
|
| 2. Things exist on a spectrum. The definition of it becoming a
| "disorder" is when it negatively affects your life enough.
|
| During diagnosis a psychotherapist will be tasked with
| identifying traits of ADHD (IE; Markers), you will not have all
| markers. Everyone will have some.
|
| Then those markers are investigated to discover how much they
| impact your quality of life. If it is above a certain threshold
| in aggregate then you are then diagnosed clinically as having
| "ADHD" and can be medicated.
|
| What I mean is, for example: You can still have autism even if
| someone has significantly more severe autistic traits than you
| have.
| nbaugh1 wrote:
| Exactly. So so so many people do not understand this element
| of psychological disorders
| timeagain wrote:
| The D in ADHD is "disorder", which normally means you can't
| function socially, at work, and/or take care of yourself.
| Normally I don't consider scatterbrained knowledge workers
| in the top 5% of the income distribution to be in that
| category. It is kind of fun so do work on speed though!
| falcolas wrote:
| > Self-diagnosis is not a diagnosis.
|
| Nit: Self-diagnosis is the first step towards a formal
| diagnosis. You don't go to the doctor to get antibiotics
| before self-diagnosing that you're sick.
|
| That said, as useful as a formal diagnosis is (getting proper
| help, and even meds), don't skip it if you can afford to do
| it.
| notjoemama wrote:
| Yes. Thank you for stating it so well. Self diagnosis is
| like a conjecture based on observation. It needs to be
| proved out formally to be a working theory. But that's part
| of the process and there absolutely is value in self
| diagnosis. It's up to professionals to sort the wear from
| the chaff, webmd be damned.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| There's a good chance you do have ADHD. I was in a similar
| place to you, and it's important to know that it manifests
| differently in different people, and that there is a rebound
| effect when you stop your meds so what you might have seen may
| have been much worse than their unmedicated state. If you have
| the money I'd suggest just getting tested.
| navjack27 wrote:
| Yup! I wish more people who say they have ADHD could have that
| experience. If someone says they have ADHD but they are
| unmedicated and they already are holding down a decent job but
| are only recently kind of struggling with something they called
| distraction or issues with focus... Then I say they don't have
| ADHD because it's so much more than that. It is issues with
| actual executive function. It is being unable to put your shoes
| on because you can't keep a straight train of thought because
| someone else is distracting you and you can't help but
| following all those threads of distraction while you are trying
| to perform a manual task.
| dijit wrote:
| This is not fair, there are definitely people who struggle
| with ADHD and do so with the belief they are lazy or
| internalise their issue as a problem that is due to
| personality or not being organised enough.
|
| My psychotherapist said something along those same lines but
| it was in order to force me to answer the question _why_ is
| it a _problem_.
|
| For me, in my life, I have always "worked" during the day in
| an easily distractible state and without being able to commit
| effort to anything substantial or focus. I self-medicated
| with caffeine to get anything resembling focus and did all of
| my _actual_ daily tasks in a 3hr window when I got home and
| worked into the late evening. Usually with a massive sense of
| guilt about how I didn 't really _do anything_ during the
| day.
|
| This was ADHD, I could not control when or how I focused. It
| gets worse with open office environments, but that's not the
| cause. I have an issue with executive function and delayed
| gratification. I do not have the ability fundamentally (even
| when motivated!) to task my brain with working.
|
| But I can hold down a job and have done so for 16 years at
| this point and I am very successful in my career. That is not
| a good judge, you work around your issues if you have them-
| in my case I just don't have anything resembling a life
| outside of work in order to paper over my executive function
| disorders.
| sureglymop wrote:
| I wouldn't go as far as to neglect someone elses experience
| because as with other disorders, people with ADHD can all be
| quite different. I understand you because for myself it
| absolutely affects my executive function and I've been
| diagnosed as a young child, pretty much coping ever since.
| Could I get a decent job and hold it down though? Yes,
| probably. Getting and staying in a job has many many more
| factors and making that part of the criteria only makes
| things more complicated.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I don't know, I held down a decent job without meds before
| starting a family. I definitely have days where my executive
| functioning is as bad as you mention, but it varies. I've
| known many people with worse ADHD symptoms than I have, but
| I'm also not a marginal case. I'm also fortunate to have a
| rather high IQ.
|
| It took me 11 semesters (plus two summer terms) to finish my
| undergrad with a low C grade average. Prior to kids, I would
| get to work between 7 and 8. If I was having trouble focusing
| that day, I'd leave between 4 and 5pm. If I was having a good
| day for focus, I'd stay as late as 10pm. Two "good days" in a
| week would put me at over 20 productive hours, which is a
| pretty solid foundation for being at least in the "not fired"
| category. If I didn't have two "good days," well that's what
| the weekends are for.
|
| Reading the above, I think I understand why "burn out" is
| mentioned in TFA as something ADHD can lead to...
| notfromhere wrote:
| This isn't accurate. Holding down a job is not a criteria
| because people learn to compensate.
|
| But those compensation mechanisms eventually stop working and
| I guarantee that persons life outside of their job is a
| complete dumpster fire.
| P_I_Staker wrote:
| I wish you wouldn't say things like this. It seems to fuel a
| popular narrative that's leading to underdiagnosis and
| treatment.
|
| There's a good chance that much of the ADHD behavior is being
| written off, eg. as a moral failing, when it's really a
| disorder that's really harmful to the person.
| macNchz wrote:
| My wife has a copy of the DSM 5 on our bookshelf, and flipping
| through it I noted that very many disorders have diagnostic
| criteria that, beyond just having some symptoms, they cause
| significant distress or impairment of functioning.
|
| I had a friend growing up who was diagnosed with ADHD quite
| young whose experience was similar to your story-he had major
| issues with school that ultimately led to him being expelled,
| not going to college, having trouble with work and family etc.
| I thought of him a lot as so many of my classmates in a hyper-
| competitive school environment discussed how they could get a
| diagnosis and medication to have an edge on college admissions
| or whatever.
| jon-wood wrote:
| Its the significant distress or impairment which is key. As
| an example most people will put off doing things like sorting
| out an issue with their electricity provider, but I took that
| to the degree where I only sorted it when someone literally
| turned up on my doorstep to disconnect the supply.
|
| Throughout my life I've found myself in situations where most
| people would go "well, this seems to be getting out of hand"
| and just carried on, getting ever more stressed and angry and
| seemingly being unable to get on with fixing it, whilst
| variously losing jobs, friendships, and a marriage. It was
| honestly a huge relief to discover the likely cause is ADHD
| rather than just being a failure of a human being.
| boringg wrote:
| I assume that is how most people get through high-school and
| university? Intense focus on the couple days before finals /
| final projects. I too did that. Is that not the case or is that
| warning lights for ADHD?
|
| High school you can get away with it because the course content
| is easier - college is much more challenging...
| jihiggins wrote:
| i did that all throughout university and graduated with
| honors in an engineering program. it really depends on your
| coping strategies / personality / luck / etc. i definitely
| have adhd, it just took a few boring jobs for it to blow up
| my life in any real way. (i completely burned out, turns out
| relying on adrenaline as an adhd medication is not a great
| long term coping strategy.) some people will hit that wall
| earlier or later than others.
|
| once, i accidentally dragged a lab partner into doing work
| the way i did. we turned in the assignment with less than a
| minute on the clock, and he nearly had an anxiety attack (i
| was feeling pretty great about things)
| boringg wrote:
| Fair - I also graduated from an engineering program -
| though the intensity around finals was grueling. Somehow I
| think the 80-100% finals weighting might have made it that
| way.
|
| Why does the boring job blow it up? Not enough stimulation?
| red-iron-pine wrote:
| in grad school the intense few days becomes intense few
| months, but close enough
| swsieber wrote:
| IIUC, there are two main components to ADHD, and you can have
| one, the other or both. And all qualify as ADHD.
|
| I'm likely ADHD, and the majority of my siblings have it.
| There's a night and day difference though between me, who in a
| questionnaire scored high on both, and me who scored high only
| in one[1].
|
| [1] Well, borderline in one and not the other. Immediately
| after taking the questionnaire I attended a work meeting and
| realized that there were at least a half dozen questions that I
| answered optimistically through rose-tinted glasses.
|
| With all that said, I'm working to address my sleep apnea
| before getting a diagnosis because I've heard that sleep
| deprivation can manifest similar to ADHD.
| coldblues wrote:
| Sourced from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38162133
|
| >Self diagnoses (and diagnoses over the internet) are pretty
| harmful
|
| Self-diagnoses can be legitimate or not - depends on the person
| doing them. They are often a necessity, in an environment where
| a professional diagnosis takes thousands of dollars or years in
| waiting (and is often done badly, by ill-informed
| professionals, like the many-decades prevailing myth that
| women/girls "can't be autistic", or that "ADD and autism can't
| coincide").
|
| As (in this case) they are also based not on bloodwork or some
| physical indicators, but on a subjective assessment of a
| person's way of thinking, the person having the actual
| experience is often more qualified than the professional. Same
| to how you don't really need a doctor to tell you you're gay.
|
| >One might even argue that the labeling aspect of a certain
| disorder (particularly a mental one) by a "professional" to not
| be particularly helpful too in addressing ones problems
|
| One might argue that the false dichotomy between professionals
| and laymen, where the former is supposed to hold all the keys
| to knowledge and the latter to passively consult and follow the
| advice of the former, is a problem in itself.
|
| And a little outdated in modern societies where the "laymen"
| are not some mud dwelling peasants who never went to school and
| only know farm work, but univercity-educated (even over-
| educated) in their own right, and libraries are not confined to
| the rich or the scholars, but every book ever written is a
| click away.
|
| In any case, a self-diagnosis doesn't give you the required
| paperwork to get drugs, or to get benefits, or specific
| accomondations, or anything like that. So it's not like it
| hurts society by taking resources from "legitimate" diagnoses.
|
| Last, but not least, pointing that X symptoms is "quite common
| to ADD/ADHD" is not self-diagnosis, it's not even diagnosing.
| It's a suggestion hinting to a possible condition. It could
| very well be used for seeking a professional diagnosis.
|
| Or do you think people with ADD/ADHD just go to the doctor to
| get diagnosed out of the blue, and not because of some similar
| suspicion, spotting some unexplained symptoms or themselves, or
| identification with some symptoms they've read about?
| kulahan wrote:
| There are a lot of problems with this comment. It might touch
| on a few legitimate ideas, like that we should probably
| consider the value of the patient's actual experience of
| course.
|
| But even in light of ideas like that, this whole idea has
| resulted in people getting pills from people they know or
| websites based in less-scrupulous nations.
|
| There are similar problems with most of the statements here -
| they make sense on the surface, but once you consider second-
| and third-order effects, it falls apart. We should not be
| encouraging moving away from professionals giving medical
| diagnoses. It may be a necessary evil at times, but it's a
| _bad_ idea to encourage.
| alchemist1e9 wrote:
| I'd also suggest that any high IQ individual will by the very
| nature of being in an extreme of that IQ distribution exhibit
| some other behaviors that are in tails of the "normal"
| distribution for various behaviors.
|
| I've had multiple people suggest to me I might have ADHD, it's
| nonsense, I remember everything and don't miss any deadlines.
| They observe me working simultaneously on many projects and
| since that is impossible for them, and frankly their memory is
| horrible, they don't even remember correctly about the one
| project they are currently focused on, so suddenly they think
| this person is abnormal and hyper, ok they have ADHD.
| Gigachad wrote:
| I've occasionally had people with ADHD or Autism try to
| diagnose me with it. I took it seriously and read up all
| about it, watched YouTube videos where people explain their
| experience, and did the screening questionnaires. And I don't
| think I'm even close to having either ADHD or Autism.
|
| Just seems like people see something they can relate too,
| like listening to fast pace music, or ordering the same thing
| at the restaurant every time, and then link that to their
| condition/project it on you.
| P_I_Staker wrote:
| It presents in different ways. Someone isn't having 5
| conversations, but could be drifting in and out of thoughts. It
| might just look like they aren't very interested. If it's more
| severe you would have more trouble controlling these kinds of
| things for a number of reasons related to the condition (poor
| executive function and impulse control).
|
| I've met "people with ADHD" who seem to not have the condition
| at all, though pretty much always medicated. On the other hand,
| I've met people with far more clearcut symptoms, and I felt
| like I had way more in common with them. It sounded like they
| were living the exact same life.
| BagelGuy wrote:
| My foot hurts everyday but next to someone who had their's
| amputated I'm okay; therefore, my foot is fine.
| itissid wrote:
| > Some people mainly have symptoms of inattention.
|
| Its actually the opposite. I found that its to do with lots of
| attention just not at the task at hand.
| findthewords wrote:
| Best productivity hack is to unplug the ethernet cable.
| dymk wrote:
| I can't find the ethernet cable on my phone :(
| klysm wrote:
| Desolder the modem temporarily
| LeonM wrote:
| Depends a bit on the model, but you should be able to find it
| close to the mobile data toggle, do not disturb toggle and
| the physical power button.
| jcims wrote:
| I just want to be able to read a whole book.
| itissid wrote:
| TBH I found this article a bit poorly written, especially around
| the core of the symptoms*. It does not even list out what exactly
| are the kinds of things to look for when you are in say your 30's
| or something and suspect you have ADHD. The list of
| recommendations though are good, especially simplifying note
| taking, which can be a drag to keep upto date.
|
| I would also add meditation and getting a good counselor/licenced
| therapist(they are hard to find). You can find a good counselor
| in a few ways: from someone who does your formal neuropsych eval,
| ask your kid's doctor. Look at psychologytoday.com and filter the
| list and run through it. For ADHD which does not accompany severe
| cognitive impairments you want to likely look at a CBT
| coach(Phd,PsyD holders) to help. Someone who knows what they are
| doing.
|
| * If you think you have ADHD or ADD please consult the complete
| DSM-V manual[0](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/tabl
| e/ch3.t3/) and at least try and match your symptoms up from your
| past experiences. I would highly recommend a neuropsychlogical
| evaluation test. Google for it.
|
| Here is an abridged list[1] of symptoms from DSM5 for ready
| reference:
|
| Inattention: Six or more symptoms of inattention for children up
| to age 16, or five or more for adolescents 17 and older and
| adults; symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6
| months, and they are inappropriate for developmental level:
|
| * Often fails to give close attention to details or makes
| careless mistakes in schoolwork, at work, or with other
| activities.
|
| * Often has trouble holding attention on tasks or play
| activities.
|
| * Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
|
| * Often does not follow through on instructions and fails to
| finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (e.g.,
| loses focus, becomes sidetracked).
|
| * Often has trouble organizing tasks and activities.
|
| * Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to do tasks that
| require mental effort over a long period of time (such as
| schoolwork or homework).
|
| * Often loses things necessary for tasks and activities (e.g.,
| school materials, pencils, books, tools, wallets, keys,
| paperwork, eyeglasses, mobile telephones).
|
| * Is often easily distracted.
|
| * Is often forgetful in daily activities.
|
| Hyperactivity and Impulsivity: Six or more symptoms of
| hyperactivity-impulsivity for children up to age 16, or five or
| more for adolescents 17 and older and adults; symptoms of
| hyperactivity-impulsivity have been present for at least 6 months
| to an extent that is disruptive and inappropriate for the
| person's developmental level:
|
| * Often fidgets with or taps hands or feet, or squirms in seat.
|
| * Often leaves seat in situations when remaining seated is
| expected.
|
| * Often runs about or climbs in situations where it is not
| appropriate (adolescents or adults may be limited to feeling
| restless).
|
| * Often is unable to play or take part in leisure activities
| quietly.
|
| * Is often "on the go," acting as if "driven by a motor."
|
| * Often talks excessively. * Often blurts out an answer before a
| question has been completed.
|
| * Often has trouble waiting his/her turn.
|
| * Often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into
| conversations or games).
|
| ================
|
| [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/
|
| [1] Hallowell, Edward M.; Ratey, John J.. ADHD 2.0 (p. 138).
| Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
| chx wrote:
| This again? A blog post stuffed with stolen art and often heard
| but absolutely not working advice?
|
| > Every morning, I start my day by planning it out in a custom
| template that displays my Google Calendar events and Todoist task
| list.
|
| For real? One of the best ADHD tools I am aware of is called the
| Anti Planner.
|
| It doesn't take long to find posts like "why to-do lists don't
| work for people with ADHD"
| https://coachjessicamichaels.com/2022/03/30/why-to-do-lists-...
|
| Also, this blog post misses body doubling which is incredibly
| helpful and can even be done virtually with focusmate or a
| similar service (I use focusmate personally but I do want to spam
| so no referral link or crap like that). Indeed, for me the only
| way to swallow a frog is focusmate.
| klysm wrote:
| I feel similar with the "every morning" stuff. The problem is I
| have a very hard time making some happen every morning.
| piperswe wrote:
| Same here. I have never been able to intentionally build a
| routine for just about anything, despite the autistic part of
| me aggressively wanting routine.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Simple steps for ADHD Productivity Management:
|
| 1. Do not have ADHD
| rchaud wrote:
| Reeks of the "don't break the chain" cultism that originates
| from an urban myth of about how Jerry Seinfeld practiced
| wiriting jokes.
| blitz_skull wrote:
| Yeah but ADHD is different for everyone. Most if not all of the
| strategies mentioned work for me.
|
| > stolen art
|
| It looked AI-generated to me.
| chx wrote:
| And AI art is theft.
|
| Hell, even a18n have admitted it!
| https://i.imgur.com/auBNG0N.jpg
| skeaker wrote:
| Your source does not support your claim. They say that _if_
| every single individual piece of data used to train a model
| was to be paid out, there would be a lot of payouts. You
| could just as easily say that _if_ you had to pay the state
| for every step you took on the sidewalk, you would have to
| pay the state a lot. This does not prove that you are
| indebted to the state for millions in sidewalk usage
| because fortunately for you the law has not decided to make
| you pay for using the sidewalk, just as it has not decided
| to make training data have to pay per file.
| chx wrote:
| > just as it has not decided to make training data have
| to pay per file.
|
| That's quite exactly what the copyright law states,
| though. I never thought the day will come when I root for
| Getty Images but the techbros have managed to do it.
| Congrats, I guess?
| skeaker wrote:
| Source? I heard there was a trial for this but wasn't
| aware it had resolved.
| fao_ wrote:
| What's the difference between stolen art and ai generated
| stolen art? Both are illegal under the DMCA
| skeaker wrote:
| Stolen art requires the original to be taken from its
| rightful owner. The original owner still has their work,
| meaning no theft has occurred. Also worth a mention is that
| in the case of AI art the original owner is hard to discern
| in the first place because the work is often too
| transformative to pin any part of it to even a single
| artist.
| s1291 wrote:
| It is mentioned at the bottom of the post that the images are
| generated by OpenAI's DALL-E.
| zigman1 wrote:
| > post stuffed with stolen art and often heard but absolutely
| not working advice?
|
| But it gets you to the HN front page!
| charles_f wrote:
| Yes, the morning routine and "at the end of the day" journaling
| are things that I never successfully implemented.
|
| Thanks for pointing to body doubling and anti planner. They
| seem like interesting concepts. Do you have any others that are
| worth checking?
| sabine wrote:
| The audio environment plays a big role when it comes to fighting
| distractions, especially when having ADHD.
|
| The problem is usually that it's either too quiet (so the brain
| is not engaged and every small noise is very hearable and
| distracting) or too loud.
|
| The other problem is when the sound environment is not
| predictable. This means your brain is constantly afraid it will
| get distracted (phone call, slack notification etc.) and you
| can't enter a flow state.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| One of the more interesting things about ADHD is that some of the
| things ADHD sufferers call "coping strategies" (using calendars,
| writing documentation) are actually just really good ideas for
| anyone.
|
| The twin demons of diminishing returns and hyperbolic discounting
| mean that people who don't _need_ to have these systems in place
| for the _current_ demands of their lives, usually don 't have
| them in place. ADHD sufferers probably get more out of
| implementing and following these systems on the margin, so
| they're paradoxically more likely to reach for them than the
| average person. (I predict Getting Things Done is popular with
| both high powered executives of all kinds and middle of the road
| ADHD laden office workers.) But current demands being low rarely
| predicts future demands staying low, and having a habit of
| working with these things already deeply engrained is a really,
| really good idea even if your Todo list only has "Get out of
| bed", "Finish Breaking Bad S4" and "Get back in bed" on it.
| FuckButtons wrote:
| Getting things done was written by someone with adhd, the
| entire system is one big coping strategy for not having a
| functioning working memory.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| In the same way fire was discovered by an anemic woman,
| maybe. It seems most popular among my lawyer/paralegal
| friends, though, and "low working memory" is not a harbinger
| of success in those fields.
| yonaguska wrote:
| Not having a functioning working memory is one of the primary
| conditions of ADHD. I'm not sure what point you're trying to
| make.
| macNchz wrote:
| I think the number of items that any given office worker in
| today's environment has to juggle far, far exceeds working
| memory, never mind that using working memory to maintain a
| running list of tasks precludes or at least contends with
| using it to actually think about the individual task at hand.
|
| I haven't used the Getting Things Done method explicitly, but
| at a glance it looks like a more formalized version of what
| most of the people I know who are well-organized and have
| good time management skills seem to gravitate to naturally.
|
| I don't think I know a single person who I'd consider "very
| on top of things" who doesn't have some mechanism, formal or
| informal, of noting/organizing/prioritizing thoughts and
| tasks. The idea that they are in fact coping with something
| and "regular" people just keep everything in their heads
| doesn't make any sense to me.
| smallerfish wrote:
| I think Slack is a silent killer of productivity, and terrible
| for an ADHD brain:
|
| You're either "engaged" and "available" (meaning you respond to
| messages in semi-real-time, pretty much nixing your ability to do
| deep work) or you feel like you're missing a lot of conversation
| that's going on behind your back, because you're heads down with
| Slack closed. Slack is good for (shitty) managers of remote
| teams, because you can see who's "in the office", and randomly
| ping people when your lack of planning skills means that you are
| working on something that you forgot to get an answer for in a
| deliberate way (instead of buzzing by their cube as you used to
| do)...but for developers I think it's a poor bargain.
|
| There are better tools out there that encourage and support async
| workflows. Twist, Basecamp, Github discussions, even email with
| appropriate filters.
| throwoutway wrote:
| I was thinking of this in bed last night. I could focus more
| using our terrible messaging system prior to Slack. And there
| was less banter, pessimism, pile ons, etc that now show up in
| threads. Sometimes I regret replying in a thread when it goes
| 50+ messages deep and you get pinged on it each one unless you
| mute
| andrew-dc wrote:
| Just wanted to say how much thinking I get done as soon as I
| lie down in bed with the lights out. Of course, Sometimes,
| this goes off the rails, and I can't sleep. But generally it
| is a testament to having little to no sensory input, (in the
| dark, lying in bed) to be free to think clearly. ;)
| hughesjj wrote:
| I only get pings for direct @'ing, is this not the norm or
| are people acting you regardless?
| rlemaitre wrote:
| Hi, author here,
|
| You're right, but unfortunately, when your company uses it and
| teams are distributed, you don't have the choice, and you have
| to find some tricks to accommodate.
| vorticalbox wrote:
| I disable the `pop up` notification and just let the counter
| in Ubuntu dock tick up. This lets me see that there is a
| message without the distracting words in my face.
| skywhopper wrote:
| While I know it's different for everyone and every workplace, I
| think Slack can be both good and bad for ADHD!
|
| For me, while the distractions of Slack can be a problem, just
| as often my issue is less distraction than just needing an
| external motivator to get started. In that case, a sudden DM
| asking for an update or a request for help in a public channel
| may be the only way I ever get started actually working.
| (Obviously, this works best if your job is more about helping
| others in general than about getting specific tasks done.)
| rchaud wrote:
| > There are better tools out there that encourage and support
| async workflows. Twist, Basecamp, Github discussions, even
| email with appropriate filters.
|
| And devs will just set up a Slack bot to send an automated ping
| each time a task status changes in those tools.
| fnord77 wrote:
| > Dopamine acts as a motivator, urging us to achieve goals and
| complete tasks.
|
| this isn't really right...
|
| Norepinephrine comes into play with executive tasking
| iillexial wrote:
| I'm having my first visit to a doctor regarding my symptoms this
| week. Very interested if I need a treatment and what they will
| say. My main problem is craving for dopamine: nicotine,
| caffeinated drinks, hot shower, games, tv shows, drugs - I just
| cannot focus, I crave for something to stimulate my brain, and
| sometimes I end up abusing substances because of this. For
| example, I used 5-7 doses of nicotine spray per hour. Just like a
| mouse that found a button for dopamine release. I think if I can
| eliminate this, I will feel much better.
| danielbln wrote:
| Here's another hack: 10mg Methylphenidate. YMMV, but the
| alternative is a boat load of systems, routines, caffeine, which
| all may or may not work depending on how the day/week is going.
| Not a panacea to be sure, but for those adults with ADHD
| inattentive where dopamine deficiency impacts executive
| functioning it can be essential (and incredibly effective).
| coldblues wrote:
| When it comes to Amphetamine derivatives what works for you
| might not work for someone else. Stimulants generally work
| well, but some people have genetic conditions that make their
| situation worse. It's best to find out which medication is best
| for you.
| danielbln wrote:
| You're absolutely right, just one correction in that
| Methylphenidate is not an amphetamine (derivate).
| buzzwords wrote:
| This could not have been better timed for me. I was diagnosed
| with ADHD yesterday. Apparently for me, the working memory is a
| major issue. If anyone has any tips here I really appreciate it
| if you could comment your suggestions here.
| dublinben wrote:
| This is a very long article with lots of helpful information
| about ADHD and memory: https://add.org/adhd-memory-loss/
|
| The highlights of their suggestions are:
|
| * Break down complex tasks into smaller bits.
|
| * Avoid multitasking.
|
| * Create your own reminders, like setting alarms and reminders.
| Leave Post-It notes on areas you frequently look at.
|
| * Habit stacking. If you constantly forget chores, you can
| stack them on top of something you regularly do. For example,
| you may put a load of laundry in while brewing your usual cup
| of coffee.
| tstrimple wrote:
| > * Avoid multitasking.
|
| Yeah okay, and just don't breathe while you're at it.
| coldblues wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUZ9VATeF_4
|
| This video has a lot of useful information. The straightforward
| answer is to externalize your memory and take notes.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| This is me talking. I have more problems than just ADHD.
|
| This is a long comment. If you just want a strategy for dealing
| with working memory inside your head, skip to the end and read
| 3.
|
| For me increasing working memory was a dead end and I found it
| far more effective to optimize how do use what I have. The vast
| majority of my advice and strategies revolve around mental
| health. Mental and physical health alone can add one or two
| slots of working memory because your brain is working better.
|
| Some advice:
|
| - Do not limit yourself to doing daily things the normal or
| accepted way. Do not let yourself or other people tell you that
| you need to do things a certain way. If you can find a way to
| not lose your keys, it doesn't matter how crazy or stupid that
| way is because the end result is you don't lose your keys.
| (Please be considerate of other people.)
|
| - Half measures are okay.
|
| - Half done is usually better than not done. If you're stuck,
| walk away and get something else done. The feeling of
| accomplishment on a small task can recharge you. Then you can
| go back and finish the other task.
|
| - Failing doesn't mean you need to fail completely. For
| example, if you're on diet and start annihilating a large
| number of small high-calorie snacks, that's not an excuse to
| finish the bag. :)
|
| Strategies
|
| 1. Reduce your baseline cognitive load. That's basically what
| my advice is trying to do. The less you are fighting your own
| expectations and limitations, the more you can focus on getting
| things done. (Cognitive behavioral therapy is solution here.)
|
| 2. Remove stress or distractions. This is the same strategy as
| cognitive load, only applied to your environment. For me
| sometimes I just have to clean before I can get work done.
|
| 3. Map and reduce. This is involved and difficult to explain. I
| recommend using paper until you get good at this.
|
| The goal is you need to do is take complex ideas that use
| multiple slots of working memory and make them take one or zero
| slots. There are several ways to do this.
|
| Paper is the easiest method to explain. Write out what is in
| your memory and then rewrite it so that it compacts into one
| thing you understand. What you should be able to do is look at
| the paper and immediately understand what is going on without
| having to think about it. This frees up all your working memory
| to make connections to other things.
|
| This can also be done with short term memory. You think about
| the problem and reduce it to a single idea or process. When you
| understand something well enough, you can hold a pointer to it
| in a slot of working memory.
|
| Long-term memory is just regular learning. Programming
| languages and that embarrassing thing you said eight years ago
| are stored in long-term memory.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| My biggest technique is just making indented outlines. The most
| important thing is having low friction to getting started on
| them. All other parts of 'the system' basically do not matter
| and you dont need to spend any time on it.
|
| I either use a sticky note (I keep a few loose ones in my
| wallet), or I activate onenote with win+n and can type on that
| immediately. Anything higher friction than that isn't gonna
| work, which is why I don't use a phone app. Getting to the
| writing screen in any notes app is too much.
|
| I also like to take meeting minutes because I otherwise cannot
| focus on meetings at all.
| _joel wrote:
| Whilst I agree with a lot of this, I think there's an issue
| around expecting someone with ADHD to just onboard using all
| these tools without a prior history and engrained usage.
|
| Such as just "using wikis and JIRA etc" is a bit handwavey imho,
| it needs to stick otherwise it'll just be forgotten.
| gardenhedge wrote:
| I really don't think this article has much to do with ADHD. Work
| is work even if you like what you're doing. Nobody can handle the
| barrage of notifications and being always-online and always-
| available. Couple that with a job that requires focus and it's an
| uphill battle. Again, this is for everyone.
|
| Everything in the article can be applied to everyone.
| boringg wrote:
| Other hack I will put out there -- I find if I do cardio exercise
| 30-45 minutes or more it gives me more constant focus for a
| couple days.
| jacknews wrote:
| Honestly I'm not sure these are strategies for dealing with ADHD,
| rather than just strategies for dealing with modern work and
| life.
|
| Or maybe I have ADHD too.
| thejosh wrote:
| I would have thought this was me writing this in a fugue state.
|
| I was diagnosed last year with ADHD, at 32.
|
| I would say ADHD has traits, you might not have all but once you
| start doing research into it you find you tick a lot of the
| boxes. Psychologists can help as they can figure out what works
| with you, once you find a decent one.
|
| Everything in this post is great, as always find what works for
| you.
| pilgrim0 wrote:
| I don't recall a single piece on the subject that attempted to
| define productivity. I'm saying this because my own conflicts
| with the condition taught me that work is not something so
| simplistic as for the same strategies to be effective in all
| environments. What in fact has worked for me, is not exactly to
| adapt myself to the work, but rather to adapt the work to my
| limitations. I keep realizing that productivity has many forms.
| Merely being able to sit and yield artifacts at a high velocity
| is not necessarily productive. When on pharmaceutical
| amphetamine, I'm perfectly "productive", but most of the times
| the quality of the results are poor. In comparison, the work I
| yield when not on medication, although performed completely
| irregularly, tends to be much more high quality. So it must be
| acknowledged that productivity has no intrinsic relation to
| efficiency. It's much more important to be efficient than
| "productive". All in all, it's important for folks with ADHD to
| treat themselves better and find a compromise when dealing with
| the societal expectations placed on them. I honestly find bizarre
| some strategies people employ to cope with work, flirting the
| inhumane, like a self-inflicted dystopia.
| rey0927 wrote:
| i don't have adhd but i definitely have fked up executive
| function and oh boy do i procrastinate! it always has been when
| weeks have passed on, months even years! and i still haven't made
| up mind to tackle the tasks. Has led to gigantic amount of missed
| opportunities. I seriously fed up of it. God know makes me scared
| about thinking when get old and frail. Have read lots of self-
| help books based on "evidence backed science" only to realize
| that none work and the authors make a buck exploiting people's
| desperateness, lazy people are seriously helpless i guess.
| coldblues wrote:
| The way I work is being driven by obsessions. I have strong
| hyperfixation and hyperfocus tendencies that I can't control. If
| there is something interesting that captivates me, I will do it
| continuously for hours, days and even weeks. Sometimes I
| seemingly lose all interest for no reason and have a hard time
| picking it up again. When the hyperfocus hits, it feels amazingly
| euphoric and "zen". It's the same feeling you get when you're
| watching a video and just become a zombie starting at the screen,
| purely consuming the content without any other thought, and when
| it ends, you're left with this dreadful feeling of coming back to
| your pitiful existence.
|
| My mind is always preoccupied. I have a constant inner monologue.
| Whenever I tend to be in a waiting room I just stare at the wall
| and start imagining conversations and situations and start
| talking to myself about various topics. My mind always makes
| connections between so many different topics, I can never keep a
| straight line of thought. One subject will bring another and
| another. A constant web of thoughts. I tend to have very long-
| winded (up to 5 continious hours or more) conversations with
| friends that leave me sweaty and exhausted.
|
| I've heard that ADHD helps a lot with introspection, self-
| reflection. While the constant noise and urge to be active feels
| debilitating, I've had some pretty interesting and life-changing
| conversations with myself that a lot of people don't often
| experience without anyone else present. Although it balances out
| with the constant anxiety.
|
| When it comes to entertainment, I'm always a binge-reader, binge-
| watcher and binge-player. Visual novels have probably kept my
| attention the most and I must have spent entire days reading
| them.
|
| When it comes to doing my work, it's a weird dance. I must have
| the impression that the task is easy, and the steps are obvious.
| That often is not the case, but the situation gets me in a zen
| state where I combat the problem until I come to a reasonable
| situation that passes one way or another. If I know it's going to
| be hard, I can't even start without having a panic attack. You
| can feel it in your stomach. Your mind starts to blank out. Your
| vision gets blurry. It's the sort of feeling when you see
| something that makes you really ill. For some people that's a
| dead body, for me it's medical descriptions.
|
| Even saying all of that, I still doubt that's how I really
| function. Looking from the outside, I just get the urge to do
| something, and I act on that urge. That's all. Whatever it be. It
| will take all my focus, and all of my energy, and you won't be
| able to get me out of that focus state. I will keep thinking
| about it until I either get to sleep or something snaps me hard
| out of it, and that severely decreases my motivation. Relying on
| instinct and acting on my obsessions was the only thing that
| helped me, either directly or indirectly. Otherwise I can't
| manage.
|
| Medication has immensely helped me control my focus and help me
| take breaks, but not even that stops me from acting sometimes.
| I've seen a few comments here mention body doubling, this has
| also helped me a lot, services like FocusMate are amazing and I
| can't praise them enough, so simple, yet so effective, and my
| anxiety really pushes its effectiveness further.
|
| Yes, I am currently hyperfocusing on writing this, if you
| couldn't tell by the several paragraphs of text and over-sharing.
| I have a task to write an article about my ADHD, yet it's still
| sitting there, because posts like these are the only things that
| get me to write about it.
|
| I tried getting diagnosed and medicated and I was scheduled an
| appointment with a horrible psychiatrist that dismissed all of my
| problems and said I couldn't have ADHD if I could recite the days
| of the week backwards and sit still. The horrible things I felt
| after that still haunt me to this day and it occasionally slips
| into my mind and makes me sick. It is an extremely embarrassing
| thing to share, but a previous comment mentioning this told me
| that it's alright, and it's a reasonable traumatic response.
|
| Writing about how I dealt with school would be just repeating
| what others have said. Deadlines never had any effect on me, I
| would always do things on the last day or few days, and I had an
| extremely difficult time with math because I how I mostly think
| is by making connections between previous information, which I
| find hard to do with math, that requires pure reasoning and
| logic. More can be found here
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22133706
|
| I don't like breaking down tasks. I don't want to plan anything.
| The only reasonable way I get work done is by bashing away, being
| pissed off it doesn't work as I expect, and keep working hours
| non-stop until I get to a reasonable state. The less I know, the
| better. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for most of the time,
| especially for big projects. All the things people use as
| crutches make me ill. I have never planned my day. I go with the
| flow. The only "productivity tools" I've ever used is the
| reminder and a simple task list just to keep track of interesting
| goodies I might pursue. I have a horrible working memory and
| externalize an immense amount of information and keep it in notes
| format. I am a RABID fan of Zettelkasten and preach it like the
| second coming of Jesus Christ.
| totorovirus wrote:
| Is ADHD a real thing? I see too many SV engineers diagnosed with
| ADHD to the point that it feels like a large scam run by
| psychiatrists that they lowered the threshold of the actual ADHD.
| JaDogg wrote:
| That make perfect sense.
|
| If coding is really interesting to you, hyperfocus make you
| spend more time doing it.
|
| Getting into the zone is probably hyperfocus kicking in.
| deafpolygon wrote:
| Had me until "Obsidian" - absolute worst thing ever for my ADHD.
| Hours spent tinkering ... experimenting with plugins. I was on
| the verge of developing plugins before I realized: I wasn't
| getting anything done. I gave up and went with OneNote. The
| freeform canvas is a godsend for my ADHD (I am able to lay things
| out spatially left and right), but I'm not able to tinker with it
| as much anymore.
| pch00 wrote:
| So much this. My inbuilt desire for perfectionism occasionally
| leads me to believe I can create "the perfect system!" using
| tools like Obsidian, etc but what actually happens is that I
| spend a large amount of time working on the system and
| forgetting about the actual tasks I needed to do.
|
| OneNote with it's "paste anything, anywhere on the page" and
| fairly minimal organisational options make it the closest thing
| to a notebook/scrapbook I've ever used on a computer. It's not
| perfect, and I've come to accept that :-)
| coldblues wrote:
| You should try Logseq. What you do is just write. Don't
| actively think about it, organization will come naturally. Just
| liberally use tags and backlinks to find your notes later.
| That's all.
| deafpolygon wrote:
| I tried the tag thing- same organizational pitfalls. I also
| disliked the lack of a solid mobile applications on logseq's
| part.
| atcalan wrote:
| You need to have a note capable phone like a galaxy 23 ultra. You
| also need a smart watch so you don't turn off your reminders in
| meetings and to forget to turn back on. Redmine and or jira are
| your friends. Make a list of all expectations and star the ones
| that are action items. Ironclad once a day go through the list
| and either complete or transfer into a task tracking system each
| starred item and then check it off--don't use the list to manage
| tasks. If you manage others, do the same and set follow up events
| for you. Never silence, only snooze alarms unless completed. Set
| annoying alarms or block out time for heads down work to avoid
| time blindness for when you hyperfocus. Your Ventromedial
| prefrontal cortex is not functioning correctly and consequently
| your planning system needs a wheelchair.
| coolThingsFirst wrote:
| Can't hack ADHD without first sorting out other problems.
|
| It's treated as a singular issue but in my experience it's not.
| Here are some factors to consider:
|
| 1) Does the person have a quiet place get high quality sleep in
|
| 2) How is their relationship with family and significant other
|
| 3) Do they exercise - physical stamina helps build mental stamina
| and helps with clarity
|
| 4) Do they eat healthy
|
| 5) Anxiety or depression. If we are constantly distracted there's
| likely a good reason for that. You can't focus on movie if your
| house is on fire and this fire can be emotional one with
| unresolved traumas etc.
|
| What we see is only the tip of the iceberg and fixing the roof
| before we address the foundation won't work longterm.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| I think we need to stop these posts. ADHD is a disease, not a
| symptom and should be treated like that.
|
| For me, my sleep is very good, my mental health is perfect, do
| exercise, eat healthy. But I have ADHD.
| albert_e wrote:
| Sounds very much like me as far a symptoms and challenges go.
|
| will bookmark this and try some of the tips. Thanks for sharing!
| swozey wrote:
| That Amazon Silent Meeting thing... I think that would drive me
| crazy. It's annoying enough when someone hasn't read what you've
| posted as an agenda in a meeting invite and you have to tell them
| about it. I don't want to sit on camera with 6 other people
| reading a 6 page document.
| JaDogg wrote:
| I really loved it. It is much easier to read in dedicated time
| when there is nobody talking. and you can just add comments to
| the doc while reading..
| gumby wrote:
| Is in an ADHD thing to scatter random pictures through the
| article rather than just have the text? Perhaps it breaks things
| up in a way that makes concentration easier? For me they were a
| distraction -- I much prefer to have a wall of text.
|
| The web is full of this style these days, so perhaps the algos
| have decided it increases engagement.
|
| This is not a snark comment or a complaint about style! People
| should post however they wish! I am just curious if there is data
| on the topic. I know Medium requires a junk picture at the top of
| every post, but I haven't seen data on this from them, just an
| assertion that it's importand.
| kinos wrote:
| I have trouble trusting this when the first thing I see is AI
| Art. It makes me think the article might have been generated too.
| Geee wrote:
| What I've learned is that there isn't such thing as focus.
| Focusing is not something you can do. Focus is simply a lack of
| distractions. If you block all distractions, the only thing left
| is focus. Blocking distractions is something you can do, if you
| want to.
|
| The major issue is how to catch up with important news and
| developments without getting distracted.
| coldblues wrote:
| You can lock me in a room for 24 hours with nothing but a math
| textbook, but I'd probably still do nothing even at the height
| of boredom. I'd probably just space out and start daydreaming.
| I'm sure this is the case for others as well.
| nathell wrote:
| I'm 39. I've been diagnosed with ADHD/AS about 11 months ago,
| after having seen a psychiatrist complaining about chronic
| fatigue (cf. my Ask HN from two years ago [0]).
|
| Methylphenidate has helped _immensely_. As has accepting the
| wiring of my brain, taking a two-months sabbatical, and
| practicing awareness about the ADHD habits. I'm having the year
| of my life. I can't remember being productive this consistently
| basically ever.
|
| [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29768418
| fasteo wrote:
| >>> after having seen a psychiatrist complaining about chronic
| fatigue
|
| Is there a causal relation between ADHD and chronic fatigue ?
| SpaceManNabs wrote:
| yeah because hyperfocus or losing track of how much energy
| you are wasting on spurious tasks.
| hughesjj wrote:
| It's not the only cause, but yes.
|
| Could also be hormonal, sickness, stress, lack of quality
| sleep/nutrition, etc. for men the drop off in testosterone
| definitely can manifest in feelings of lethargy.
| 8ytecoder wrote:
| I have been trying to find information on this - but couldn't
| find any real scientific literature. Anecdotally, it's true
| for me and my current psychiatrist was the first one to
| recognise the link and start treating my ADHD instead of the
| depression and low energy and fatigue that I went to her for.
| Not there yet. But can confirm that the meds help a lot.
| comprev wrote:
| I was diagnosed a few years back and use the same drug - the
| difference is night and day for me. Astonishing difference to
| my life!
|
| When people ask if I'm frustrated/angry that it took until I
| was mid-30s to get diagnosed, I respond by saying how I'm proud
| of myself for achieving what I have so far
| unmedicated/undiagnosed - and excited about what the future
| might hold.
| SpaceManNabs wrote:
| article seems good but ledger.com publishing this is kinda
| hilarious.
|
| also i am about to work better at the office for focus mode
| 71a54xd wrote:
| I have ADHD and unapologetically take adderall.
|
| Yes, there's a stigma but there's also about a 6x improvement in
| my mood and ability to stay focused on a single task after I take
| 5mg. I've never developed dependency and generally only take it
| 3-4 times a week. I've also never really had to increase the
| dose.
|
| This came after two diagnosis from neuropsychiatrists both
| reaching the same conclusion.
|
| Being diagnosed at 22 I'm glad I wasn't prescribed adderall as a
| teen but I loathe how much more I could have achieved in college
| seeing how much more capable I am now.
|
| I acknowledge it's probably not great for my heart health - but I
| was so depressed about how I was unable to get anything done or
| focus on studying before that I'd always make this tradeoff.
| charles_f wrote:
| Great post! I don't know if I have ADHD, but I have struggle with
| getting into focusing and staying focused if I don't get into the
| zone, a lot of that speaks to me.
|
| > For me, having multiple monitors has been a game-changer; it
| allows me to spread out my tasks visibly and switch between them
| as needed without losing track
|
| Fun, I have had the opposite revelation. I had several monitors
| for years, and what made a difference was switching to just a
| wide one, plus some hygiene around closing windows I don't use.
| Using a nice background helps, as it motivates me yo have
| sufficiently little content that I can see it.
|
| > While the open office layout is often praised for fostering
| collaboration, it can be a minefield of distractions for someone
| with ADHD
|
| And interestingly again, I like going to the office because a)
| few of my colleagues are going, b) I have much less distractions
| there than at my place
|
| > Amazon's Silent Meeting Technique
|
| From my short tenure at Amazon, this is one thing I miss to an
| obsessive degree. These are great. But switching to other
| companies and failing to advocate for it, I realized that people
| don't like reading. They want to be fed content. I dread when
| something is documented through the recording of a meeting, I
| want a doc. I hope to find such a culture again!
|
| > Obsidian isn't just a note-taking app for me; it's the
| cornerstone of my daily organization
|
| I like the idea in concept. I even built an extension for
| Obsidian that parses all your notes for to-dos and presents them
| as an _interactive_ board and backlog (Proletarian Wizard). I
| have used that for a few years, but I usually drift enough from
| my todos that it 's not very useful. The other problem with all
| these syncs is that they are one way only, so it'd make me
| anxious that the info is scattered between my system and the
| central one. Like the idea though.
|
| > Team members are encouraged to block off periods in their
| calendars
|
| Does that work for anyone? I have been doing that for years,
| through probably 5 or 10 teams, and so far my main observation is
| that people don't give any consideration for my own agenda. The
| moment my calendar is busy to beyond 50%, people start sending
| invites on time marked busy. I think they mostly don't even
| check, or sometimes even worse they take notice and send
| something in the likes of "you were marked busy but I hope you
| can join".
| rswskg wrote:
| I cannot trust someone who did well at school but claims to have
| ADHD.
| JaDogg wrote:
| I passed lot of exams (A grades, etc) with last minute study.
| But at some point I reached a ceiling (failed). So different
| people might have different ceilings.. for some they might
| reach this ceiling at grade 5. Some might reach it at degree
| level.
|
| ADHD != dumb.
| ZachSaucier wrote:
| Reader modes for reading web articles can be really handy for
| those with HDHD.
|
| I maintain a reader mode called Just Read that is pretty
| customizable if you're interested: https://justread.link/
| coldblues wrote:
| My favorite method is RSVP. I've read entire books with ease
| using it.
| citruscomputing wrote:
| A few years ago, I was part of a neurodiversity ERG, and we were
| gathering recommendations for the new office that was going to be
| built. I found "Designing a Neurodiverse Workplace"[0]. It is a
| fantastic design document that told me about things I didn't have
| the language to express that I needed. One of the points it makes
| is "have a variety of types of spaces and let people pick and
| move between them", which the author touches on with regard to
| hybrid work. Everyone (not just ND people) gets overwhelmed by
| sensory stimuli sometimes, needs to be alone sometimes, needs to
| be around people and noise sometimes. I kinda knew "yeah yeah
| accessibility benefits everyone" but I didn't really _get_ it
| until then. Highly recommend reading this.
|
| [0]: https://www.hok.com/pdf/download/31839/
|
| If that link doesn't work:
| https://www.hok.com/ideas/publications/hok-designing-a-neuro...
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| Why do a lot of developers, especially the more "chronically
| online" ones, exhibit ADHD symptoms? I'm not saying they are
| necessarily, but there are striking similarities.. do the screens
| make people mad or are mad people attracted to screens?
| coldblues wrote:
| I tend to be on the side of "mad people are attracted to
| screens". Does Thomas the Tank Engine make people autistic?
| kylegalbraith wrote:
| This was a very well written piece and really resonates with me.
|
| I've never been diagnosed with ADHD but when I read pieces like
| this I always walk away feeling like I check most of the boxes.
| Has anyone ever encountered the same and been prompted to get
| help? Asking on HN probably isn't the best idea, but sometimes I
| really struggle with certain flows and the way others work that
| seems to run counter to my peak performance.
| mystickphoenix wrote:
| I found that https://endel.io/ worked better for me than
| brain.fm. YMMV of course, but it's worth a try if brain.fm isn't
| your jam.
| JaDogg wrote:
| Thank you for noprocrast feature. :)
|
| I wanted to do pomodoro - so I ended up writing a pomodoro python
| app. :(
|
| I wanted to build some games - so I ended up writing a
| programming language.
|
| I wanted to create a 3d design for a cyberdeck - wrote a python
| library to codegen.
|
| ADHD == Yakshaving on steroids.
| chrisjc wrote:
| Lots of things to move from multiple (mental) "I'll deal with it
| later" piles to here, so excuse the randomness...
|
| I was diagnosed with ADHD at 44/45 too. I can't believe that no
| one (not even me) identified it based on all the symptoms and
| signs throughout my life. Medication was a life-changer. Suddenly
| all of my therapy started to become more effective. I was able to
| slow things down and actually take a long, hard look inside. Gave
| me the ability listen, understand and validate my emotions,
| fears, concerns, behavior... instead of just reacting or pushing
| things down and out of the way. One important realization was
| that the medication wasn't just for work hours. It also enabled
| me to be "present" outside of work too.
|
| Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on Andrew Huberman. I'm
| always skeptical about anyone on social media these days. Doesn't
| seem like he's trying to sell us anything, and has seemingly
| decent, understandable explanations about brain bio-chemistry and
| characteristics of those with ADHD.
|
| Can anyone recommend a tool for the phone that can use Siri/etc
| to record and organize reminders, thoughts, etc? Imagine the
| functionality Loom (mentioned in the link), Obsidian, todoist,
| etc... all mixed into one app, but Voice/Siri interaction being
| the main interface to interact with? I find that when I use a
| visual UI, I end up doing something unrelated. Tweaking settings,
| noticing a txt I haven't responded to, trying to organize
| previous tasks, etc...
|
| I was one of those stay-up-to-the-late-hours type of person all
| throughout my life. That of course changed with a family, and so
| I began to suffer as a result. I found that I had no time to
| focus on learning and keeping my skills up to date. It made me
| really frustrated, fearful and resentful. Especially difficult bc
| I never really "worked", I was passionate about what I do and
| love it. At some point I figured out a way to use that anxiety to
| get me out of bed early in the morning (quite unusual and
| difficult for those with ADHD) and to my desk hours before anyone
| could disturb me. Suddenly I was getting up at 4-5am (6-7hrs of
| sleep), ready, refreshed and at my desk, giving me several hours
| before anyone could interrupt me. That all changed recently due
| to some personal matters, but I think I'm on the right path to
| getting back there.
|
| Anyone else heard that those with ADHD often think/write like a
| lisp language? Lots of "...", deeply nested "((()))", "etc"... in
| their sentences.
|
| I see every sign of ADHD in my young daughter. I guess I'm glad
| that I have and can recognize it so that at least I can
| empathize/sympathize/understand/validate what she will go through
| in life, and hopefully be able to provide some
| guidance/help/support for her as she navigates the difficulties.
| I wish I had had that throughout my life, and in many ways, on a
| daily basis, I feel like I'm learning everything from scratch
| with my recent discovery. I now see everything through a
| different lens, like I needed glasses all my life and only
| recently received glasses.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| an opinion on Andrew Huberman. I'm always skeptical
| about anyone on social media these days. Doesn't seem
| like he's trying to sell us anything
|
| I only recently became aware of him so I don't have a real
| opinion. First impression was I liked many things he said.
|
| One thing I'd note though is that he is absolutely trying to
| sell something - he runs a supplement business that has
| attracted some controversy because IIRC he may be overstating
| the research behind some of his concoctions. (That said, I
| think they're just formulations of various common generally-
| recognized-as-safe supplements, and I don't think he's pushing
| anything fringe-y? not sure)
|
| FWIW - selling something does not immediately disqualify him
| from credibility IMO. For better or worse this is capitalism.
| It's actually even worse when we expect to be ascetic monks
| with no worldly financial interests. Instead let's be realistic
| and transparent.
| theodraul wrote:
| Had such a weird feeling skimming through this.
|
| Earlier this year I've spent months intuitively building a
| product to address some challenges I've faced in the past years
| while working remotely.
|
| It took all that effort to understand, after hearing from the
| users, that the product was just the result of me trying to solve
| my own undiagnosed ADHD symptoms...
| rideontime wrote:
| Ugh, the horrible AI "illustrations." I'd rather have no images
| at all.
| TheMiddleMan wrote:
| I actually love them a lot! Came here to comment about how
| great they are. Why the hate?
| winddude wrote:
| Hyper-focus is an amazing trait for software development, when
| it's focused right, but than it sucks balls when you can't focus,
| for days, weeks or months, because... well ADHD.
| smcleod wrote:
| Good all be it brief summary.
|
| The only part I disagree with is hybrid work.
|
| For me, as I've gone through this journey - a key takeaway from
| understanding myself better is that commuting to and working from
| an office is far worse for my health than I thought and not
| something I could go back to doing.
|
| An office is a place that's very hostile to the majority of folks
| with ADHD and can have considerable health impacts. Its
| disruptions, lighting, heating, noises and work space disrupt my
| comfort, flow, mood and enthusiasm. It's not something I'd go
| back to doing again - and because of that I'm healthier, happier,
| get considerably more work done, and want to engage socially more
| outside of work.
|
| It's great to see accessible articles like this become popular, I
| think it's also important to make sure that all the mitigating
| strategies don't end up falling solely with the individual, but
| we that we also work towards a healthier, more inclusive, working
| society.
| dublinben wrote:
| You also regain 2+ hours a day that can be used to improve your
| sleep, nutrition and exercise situation. These are all key
| foundational requirements for people with ADHD that enable
| higher-level executive functioning.
| kirubakaran wrote:
| You might want to try https://crushentropy.com/
|
| It is mine, but it is completely free. Many programmers with ADHD
| have sent me fan mails about it, and that makes me very happy.
| alok-g wrote:
| I have all the symptoms described (inattention type, not
| hyperactivity), including hyperfocus. A test my therapist had
| given me indicated that I do have ADHD. However, she told me that
| I do not actually have ADHD as my hyperfocus does not fit with
| "attention deficit", and there's alternative explanation for the
| symptoms from some other issues. Upon reading this post however
| where inattention and hyperfocus are both mentioned, I sense she
| may be wrong.
|
| In my case, I feel sure that I did not have ADHD symptoms during
| childhood. These symptoms I believe have come extreme and unusual
| mental stresses I have been subjected for several years. However,
| there's not enough literature on ADHD coming during adulthood.
| Most, like the OP, say that it would have gone undetected during
| childhood. Some say that ADHD can develop during adulthood too. I
| have also read that Adult ADHD seemingly has a different
| mechanism than ADHD that develops during childhood.
|
| In terms of what's working for me, nothing yet.
| gukov wrote:
| Dr Gabor Mate's theory is that ADHD (and many others) is the
| body's response to childhood trauma.
| alok-g wrote:
| Thanks for the pointer. I'll find more about this.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Wouldn't that imply that everyone with ADHD had childhood
| trauma? I can see that explanation being true for some, but
| not all nor a majority of cases.
|
| I'd be more inclined to believe trauma to the ADHD
| offspring's mother, while pregnant, would be more explanatory
| than the offspring's environment post-birth.
| berkes wrote:
| > and there's alternative explanation for the symptoms from
| some other issues
|
| > I feel sure that I did not have ADHD symptoms during
| childhood
|
| Both are hard requirements for the indication though. (at least
| in my country where they use the DSM, Diagnostic and
| Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
|
| * Symptoms must not be attributable to other issues.
|
| * ADHD must have been there all your life, so before a certain
| age (in my country 12yo) symptoms must have been there, and
| they must be acknowledged. Not necessarily that they were then
| attributed to ADHD, but they must have been present.
|
| Source: i'm in the diagnosis currently. I'm 45 years old. I'm
| not a shrink. I'm currently actually supposed to finish my
| bookkeeping, hence I'm on HN.
| alok-g wrote:
| The test I was given is called DIVA 2.0. It says it is based
| on DSM-IV criteria. I have no understanding of how DSM
| criteria evolved.
|
| The DIVA 2.0 test notes, "Research has indicated that at
| adult age, four or more characteristics of attention problems
| and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity are sufficient for the
| diagnosis of ADHD to be made." I had seven out of seven
| characteristics for inattentive type ADHD.
|
| I am sure I did not have the symptoms during childhood. I
| started facing these around 2011 and very distinctly in 2012,
| when I was 35 years of age.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Is your therapist a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist? If
| not, I would take what she says with a great skepticism.
|
| _> I feel sure that I did not have ADHD symptoms during
| childhood._
|
| That would be an instant disqualification of an ADHD diagnosis.
|
| _> I believe have come extreme and unusual mental stresses I
| have been subjected for several years_
|
| I am not a clinician nor do I know the full extent/magnitude of
| your stresses, but have you ever investigated (C)PTSD? If can
| mimic many ADHD symptoms.
|
| _> However, there 's not enough literature on ADHD coming
| during adulthood. . . Most, like the OP, say that it would have
| gone undetected during childhood. Some say that ADHD can
| develop during adulthood too. I have also read that Adult ADHD
| seemingly has a different mechanism than ADHD that develops
| during childhood. _
|
| Based on what is commonly understood about the condition, it
| cannot come on in Adulthood. Similar to how there is no Adult-
| onset Autism. You're born with it or without it. Also, just
| because symptoms were not "detected in childhood" does not mean
| the symptoms did not exist in childhood. My symptoms were not
| detected in childhood, but oh boy, were the signs and symptoms
| there. I just grew up in the South East, US where stuff like
| ADHD just didn't exist, and I and plenty others were punished
| and ridiculed for our "daydreaming," "restlessness,"
| "laziness," and "inappropriate behavior."
|
| Personally, I am not sure if I buy the research on this topic
| though. Then again, I also think the label "ADHD" is just like
| "Cancer" -- a massive blanket-term for multiple similar
| conditions. So, who knows? It's not like there is a single
| biomarker that has ever been discovered that can be used to
| diagnosis the condition. It's all just professional opinions
| based on agreed upon patterns and heuristics.
|
| Anyway, I hope you figure out something that works for you.
| alok-g wrote:
| Thanks for a detailed response! Sincerely appreciated.
|
| >> Is your therapist a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist?
|
| Yes. Clinical psychologist.
|
| >> That would be an instant disqualification of an ADHD
| diagnosis.
|
| You could be right. That's what most literature says.
| However, there's some talking about ADHD developing in
| adulthood. I cannot say whether to trust or not; surely
| there's very little such literature.
|
| >> ... nor do I know the full extent/magnitude of your
| stresses
|
| I have been shouted upon by my wife at peak volume for hours
| at a stretch, about once every two days, for years, with her
| usually beating herself badly along the way, sometimes
| threatening with knives, and so on and on.
|
| As I wrote in another comment here, I started facing these
| symptoms around 2011 and distinctly in 2012, when I was 35
| years of age. Prior to that, I have always been a star
| performer, during childhood and at work, with no such
| symptoms to the best of my understanding.
|
| >> ... but have you ever investigated (C)PTSD? If can mimic
| many ADHD symptoms.
|
| My therapist did mention that to me and told me to read about
| it. I read about it on Wikipedia, but do not know enough
| myself to say either way. I'll talk to the therapist again on
| my next visit.
| dboreham wrote:
| The article doesn't mention this (nor have any of the 500 videos
| I've watched on YouTube on this subject), but you might find that
| listening to instrumental music has a significant beneficial
| effect. Music with lyrics doesn't work for me because I start to
| follow them. Music from someone long dead can be better because
| less inclination to pull up their Wikipedia page. Music seems to
| wedge a wrench in the brain mechanism that initiates distraction.
| It keeps the default mode network busy enough to retain focus on
| the main thing. Also pick long pieces of music, or auto-playing
| AI-based playlists, otherwise you go down a rabbit hole of
| selecting the next piece of music.
| MonortYp wrote:
| I'm the opposite of this - I can only listen to music with
| lyrics as it gives me something to "listen to" even though I
| barely hear a word of them let alone remember or be able to
| sing along. (Faster music like rap or metal is great)
|
| Brown noise is probably the only sound I can tolerate for a
| long periods of time without lyrics, even better than this is
| ANC headphones with nothing playing.
| tired_star_nrg wrote:
| I use instrumental music or one song with a good rhythm on
| repeat. Since the song is on repeat, it doesn't matter that
| there are lyrics - it all becomes part of the background
| rhythm.
| WraithM wrote:
| I can't recommend https://reclaim.ai highly enough, which the
| article mentions. It's absolutely a game-changer for me. My whole
| life is scheduled in my calendar. I have a bunch of automatic
| meetings with my team. It's really been a life-saver for the past
| couple of years. They're also always improving the product.
| scns wrote:
| Sadly won't have time to read all comments, maybe someone said it
| allready.
|
| Once a commenter here on HN wrote that meditation helps him
| better than anything else. Still have back into the groove of a
| regular schedule. The best book on the topic might be Mind
| Illuminated by John Yates, got it from a recommendation here on
| HN.
|
| Another good one is ADHD 2.0 by Hallowell and Ratey.
|
| Knowledge helps.
| TrackerFF wrote:
| I'm diagnosed with ADHD, and it's been a struggle. You can say
| that it's more a struggle now than ever, with the medication
| shortage.
|
| With that said, I always found it interesting that many
| psychologists are extremely polarized on the so-called
| hyperfocus. One I spoke with said that hyperfocus is
| contradictory to ADHD, while another said that it is indeed
| something that many with ADHD experience. These were
| psychologists with decades of experience, and have diagnosed
| hundreds/thousands of patients.
|
| Diagnosis has seemingly become very hard the past years, with the
| spread of social media and ADHD "influencers". Viewers become
| fixated on having ADHD, memorize symptoms, and parrot these when
| undergoing diagnosis.
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