[HN Gopher] Hello, stranger - Talking to random people
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Hello, stranger - Talking to random people
Author : willemlaurentz
Score : 67 points
Date : 2023-11-14 13:36 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (willem.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (willem.com)
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| While enjoying my fresh wok lunch in Amsterdam, I noticed
| something odd: other folks coming in for something to eat ignored
| the person standing at the counter, preferring to order through a
| digital kiosk. The crazy thing about this? They are just
| centimetres apart!
|
| In fact, they are so close that the staff member peeks at the
| display to get a head start on picking the right vegetables - all
| without any words spoken. Now, I get it: modern technology allows
| us to be more efficient, but I think I might be witnessing
| something deeper: we prefer not to talk to each other anymore.
|
| I decided to dive into this and do a little experiment: talk
| (more often) to strangers.
|
| I made this blog post to tell you about it, give it a try!
| jjice wrote:
| On that specific example, I have a drugstore near my home that
| I go to regularly for miscellaneous things. There are one or
| two humans at checkouts, and two self checkouts. The self
| checkout is almost always (with the only exception being
| someone who hasn't used the machine before) much faster. I'm
| talking like half or a third the time to use.
|
| Same with the grocery stores near me. Nothing wrong with the
| cashiers, but it's just so much faster to checkout for myself.
| I've found the same at restaurants as well. I get full
| exploration of the options at a kiosk, kind of like the
| benefits of a GUI vs TUI interface. The menu rarely has all the
| options (at least around me).
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| I talk to strangers all the time. I'm from abroad and agree
| that it's a pity here in the Netherlands that it's not more
| common or accepted.
|
| But I still prefer digital kiosks. It gives me more time to go
| over the menu and compare the prices of different combinations,
| discover more options, and I can give more exact instructions
| about how I need it to be prepared etc.
|
| Talking to strangers is fantastic but the meaningful difference
| between given your Big Mac order to a human rather than a
| screen is minimal.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| The screen _never_ smiles. It never makes eye contact.
| Sometimes the people do.
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| I understand that but I speak with many other smiling eye
| contracting people throughout the day who also converse
| with me and get to know me outside of my wedding no cheese
| on my burger.
|
| Like I say it's great to meet new people and to build human
| connection in your life. I'm just not convinced that
| avoiding order screens is the thing to focus on for
| achieving that goal.
| petercooper wrote:
| _I think I might be witnessing something deeper: we prefer not
| to talk to each other anymore._
|
| I'm happy to smalltalk with strangers, but I use the machines
| as I hate _ambiguity_. I often had orders misheard or
| misunderstood and prefer to explicitly select and see what I
| want in an unambiguous way, if I can.
|
| Even with something as a single drink this can become a
| problem.. a _venti soy mocha frappuccino with vegan whipped
| cream_ or whatever, let alone when you might have _several_
| people 's orders to make at once and not mess up.
|
| Talking to strangers _is_ great fun, and the ambiguity there
| can make it more so! Relaying and verifying precise information
| to a stranger? Not fun.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| > I'm happy to smalltalk with strangers, but I use the
| machines as I hate ambiguity.
|
| Yeah, I admire the patience of people who have the
| energy/patience/motivation to overcome misunderstanding with
| other people.
|
| I also dislike all sorts of ML/AI/algo features for similar
| reasons, when it pretends to be a machine but is vague like
| human (or worse) it's the worst.
| rambambram wrote:
| In the supermarket it's 50/50 for me, sometimes the selfscan
| checkout, other times I put my groceries on the conveyor belt.
| On the way to the supermarket though, I made a habit of
| smiling, greeting and eye contact with everybody I encounter.
| It always adds something extra to the day, greeting a stranger
| and having a short connection. Always. I had to practice a bit,
| because not getting any acknowledgement back might feel as a
| discard at first. Not anymore.
|
| BTW, do you see any difference between Amsterdam and Limburg?
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| Here in Limburg folks speak in their own dialect. They
| immediately hear that I am "not one of them" (although I
| understand their language well). Sometimes that's an
| advantage (as it invokes curiosity), but moreover they'll
| treat you with a little more "distance"; I often feel an
| outsider here.
|
| In Amsterdam it greatly differs per area. My office is
| located in Amsterdam-Zuidoost where a lot of different
| cultures mix and mingle. In that neighbourhood I feel
| particularly 'free' to talk to strangers. My experience may
| be biased however as I know these folks a little better
| because of my work as volunteer in Amsterdam Venserpolder
| (another post on that can be found here:
| http://willem.com/blog/volunteer).
|
| I try to balance it, like yourself. It also depends on my
| 'mood and energy', with two young kids I sometimes don't have
| the "power" to engage in talking to strangers - but when I
| do, it is often very rewarding.
| arp242 wrote:
| > we prefer not to talk to each other anymore
|
| The "we" here being "The Dutch". Pretty much everywhere (other
| than Eastern Europe maybe) is it easier to talk to random
| strangers. I've also never seen any place where it's more
| socially accepted to be a complete dickhead to strangers (other
| than locals in overcrowded tourists destinations, but that's a
| special case). After spending a few years abroad I found it
| absolutely shocking.
| hospitalJail wrote:
| > I noticed something odd: other folks coming in for something
| to eat ignored the person standing at the counter, preferring
| to order through a digital kiosk. The crazy thing about this?
|
| This reduces costs by reducing man hours. This increases
| communication since you are not playing telephone.
|
| Literally everyone wins.
|
| Wouldn't you rather spend the 20 seconds talking to your buddy
| or 20 seconds asking where to put the credit card?
| xigoi wrote:
| I use self-checkouts whenever possible because most cashiers
| don't like the job and probably want to interact with as few
| people as possible, so I'm hopefully making their life a little
| bit better. Also, I can check that the prices are correct instead
| of being socially pressured into paying and leaving as fast as
| possible.
| omgsean wrote:
| >I use self-checkouts whenever possible because most cashiers
| don't like the job and probably want to interact with as few
| people as possible
|
| I don't know if that's really the case. When I worked retail I
| mostly really liked chatting with customers.
| polygamous_bat wrote:
| I seem to have seen the opposite recently, possibly because
| the cost of living has gone up significantly faster than the
| wages for low-end jobs.
| rc5150 wrote:
| I too worked retail and dreaded having another interaction of
| forced/fake pleasantries, pretending to give a damn about
| what the customer wanted. Give me a digitized interaction or
| give me death.
| pnathan wrote:
| I worked retail many years ago. I found the required fake
| cheer rather horrid. I was good at it, and every now and then
| I'd have an interesting chat. But I prioritized moving people
| through _fast_, because they didn't come to chat with me,
| they came to buy their stuff.
| Kye wrote:
| It might depend on the store. I used to get stuck behind
| cashiers and customers who obviously knew each other and
| would get into long conversations while I stood there
| waiting.
| rokkitmensch wrote:
| Comrade, I use self-checkout to undermine Accenture business
| case for firing checkers and to fight back against unpricipled
| capitalist dogs' greedflation.
| pengaru wrote:
| Dude, they like the job a whole lot more than no income at all.
| Which is the direction you're cooperating with pushing things
| by using self checkout lanes.
| emodendroket wrote:
| For me it's because I love hearing "unscanned item in the
| bagging area" fifty times before the machine locks me out and
| an employee has to help me after all.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| My experience is entirely opposite. I much prefer to go to
| cashier, because they're easily 2-5x as fast as me, which isn't
| surprising because they literally scan barcodes for a living.
| On top of me-being-non-specialist penalty, self-checkout
| machines also slow down the scanning process, as you need to
| wait up to few seconds for the scale to stabilize.
|
| Now, neither self-checkout nor human register display some
| discounts, because they're using the same system, and the
| system applies those discounts at the end. But here's a thing:
| I can ask about promotions and prices while the cashier is
| scanning. Also, if I realize after paying that something is
| wrong, I can immediately dispute it with the cashier, instead
| of waiting for the employee to maybe come in the next 5 minutes
| (they're probably on the other side of the store, busy
| unloading some boxes).
|
| As for the pressure, I personally feel much more pressure
| coming from an unyielding machine than from a human.
| n4r9 wrote:
| > Even a short and simple conversation can make you feel good.
|
| I think when people prefer to use a digital kiosk, it's sometimes
| because they have had negative experiences of conversations with
| service staff. For example, a staff member might give you a funny
| look if you order something weird, hurry you along if you're
| pausing a lot, or force you to say "no" when they offer extras. I
| know that's where my mind goes! Of course short conversations can
| - and often do - make you feel good, we as humans are not great
| at focusing on that.
| nlowell wrote:
| It's sad for me to admit this but I find online ordering
| especially for fast food in my area is a much better experience
| because it standardizes the presentation of the order details
| for the cashier. When I speak to a human being however I often
| run into language barriers immediately, and as a result my
| orders get screwed up more often.
| haswell wrote:
| The other side of this coin is that many people take
| _forever_ at the digital kiosk. If there aren't enough kiosks
| and the location is a busy one, I'll actively avoid that
| place.
|
| I might as well figure out how to use their website/app at
| that point.
|
| But all of this leads us further down the path of
| abstracting/hiding the reality of the purchasing decisions we
| make. I can't help but feel this all chips away at our
| collective humanity.
| BeetleB wrote:
| You've never been stuck in a line where the guy at the
| front is spending forever?
| dheera wrote:
| Yeah a new amazing matcha drink/ice cream place opened at
| my area. There is always a long line out the door, so I
| went there to check it out. It was amazing, but the real
| reason for the long line is that the kiosk wanted an SMS
| confirmation to place the order.
|
| There was a very tiny "skip" button but most people ahead
| of me probably didn't see it.
| JohnFen wrote:
| That could be.
|
| Personally, I detest using digital kiosks and strongly prefer
| placing my order with a human, even if your examples happen.
|
| I stopped going to a sandwich shop I used to visit nearly every
| workday because they switched to a kiosk to place your sandwich
| order.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Did you tell them why?
|
| If you want to stop kiosks, it's not enough for you to vote
| with your feet. They need to know _why_ you voted with your
| feet. And the place you switch _to_ also needs to know why.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| Tell them, tell them now!
| JohnFen wrote:
| I did, yes. I didn't switch to a new place because there's
| a lack of eateries in the vicinity of my workplace. I just
| started bringing my own lunch instead (which is probably
| healthier!)
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| Is it really kiosk only? I've only ever seen kiosk as an
| optional with staff at the counter ready to serve.
|
| What do they do at that store if there's a failure on the
| kiosk or they have to go down for maintenence etc?
|
| Not doubting your story but even as someone who avoids places
| without kiosks I find that a pretty drastic change.
| dheera wrote:
| I stopped going to a sandwich shop because they had QR codes
| of their menu posted while lining up.
|
| If you can print the QR code why can't you just print the
| damn menu?
|
| I hate mobile menus, 95% of them are hard to use, most have
| jumpy scrolling where the thing you're looking at doesn't
| stay put on the screen as the rest of the page loads
| (goddamn, use "width" and "height" on your images...), some
| even throw GDPR popups at you, all kinds of nonsense.
| eloisant wrote:
| Sadly the kiosk also forces you to tap the "no" button on the
| screen for multiple extras. One screen at a time.
| cortesoft wrote:
| People don't get the same emotional response from saying no
| to a screen that they do when saying no to a person.
| barryrandall wrote:
| The verbal equivalent of angrily stabbing the "no" button
| would make you famous for all the wrong reasons.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I find it much more annoying with a machine than with a
| person. With a person, I can shortcut the process. With a
| machine, I can't.
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| That might be so on a psychological level the average
| person will have a harder time saying no to the human and
| avoiding the upsale. Clicking No a couple of times can be
| annoying but so can leaving the store with product you
| didn't want and the feeling you lost money you didn't
| want to spend.
| drivers99 wrote:
| Even the manned checkouts require you to interact with a
| payment terminal a lot of the time, often with multiple
| questions to answer.
| Osiris wrote:
| I do it because the kids can't make up their minds and I don't
| want to make everyone else wait while I beg the kids to say
| what they want.
| VancouverMan wrote:
| At fast food restaurants in Canadian cities, I've found that
| ordering using a kiosk is often the only way to place a
| complete and correct order.
|
| Due to Canada's immigration policies and economic policies,
| retail and fast food jobs that used to be done by local high
| school or college students are now often done by foreign-born
| adults instead. Unfortunately, many of these staff have poor
| English and/or French skills.
|
| When ordering a meal verbally, miscommunications and
| misunderstandings creep in far too easily, even for what used
| to be simple and routine orders.
|
| At first, I thought I was being unclear in some way, but more
| and more I started noticing the same thing happening to other
| people who were ordering before or after me. Communication
| issues that just didn't exist before have become the norm.
|
| Thanks to this and skyrocketing prices, I don't go to fast food
| restaurants as often as I'd like to. If a place doesn't have a
| kiosk for ordering, I'll just leave.
| causality0 wrote:
| I treat strangers like I want to be treated: ignore me unless you
| have a reason to talk to me. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of
| extroverts telling us we need to change because they think the
| situations that make _them_ happy are the default and best way
| for the world to be.
| supertofu wrote:
| This is a bit bluntly stated, but I agree wholeheartedly. I am
| an introvert who enjoys social interaction occasionally, but it
| must be meaningful in order not to be a draining experience.
|
| I have often felt like the nectar for a hungry extravert to
| feed on, and when they are done with me, it turns out they
| never actually cared about ~me~; they just needed to feed on
| the social interaction with me to gain energy for themselves. I
| was just a means to an end for them.
|
| As an introvert who craves meaningful connection, I have found
| myself being used and drained by extraverts countless times. I
| am as a consequence very wary of them.
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| > I have often felt like the nectar for a hungry extravert to
| feed on, and when they are done with me, it turns out they
| never actually cared about ~me~; they just needed to feed on
| the social interaction with me to gain energy for themselves.
| I was just a means to an end for them.
|
| This is a striking metaphor! Although I do try to gauge
| willingness to talk *before* actually engaging in a
| conversation I will keep your comparison in mind. I don't
| want to feed on anybody's nectar, so to speak. :-)
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| I am sorry if my post came over as if I wanted to tell you to
| change; that is never my intention. Please be exactly as you
| want to be.
|
| Taking your feedback into account I will try to get this nuance
| better in my writing, but please forgive me as I am "just an
| amateur with a blog". :-)
| tootie wrote:
| I have existed since long before self-checkout or digital
| ordering and have not ever connected with someone working at a
| cash register or serving food.
| wussboy wrote:
| Maybe you're doing it wrong?
| warkdarrior wrote:
| Was I holding the cashier wrong?
| codersfocus wrote:
| It's because you see them as a cashier or a server, instead of
| _a person working as_ a cashier or server.
|
| There was some period of 6 months where for some reason (I
| believe it was cause I was living overseas for 2 years in a
| country without my native language, then returning back to
| where I could finally talk again) I was very outgoing and
| talkative.
|
| It was glorious and I happily talked with everyone. Would crack
| jokes at people as I passed them by on the street.
|
| Unfortunately Philly beat the reserved "heads down" scowl I was
| used to back into me.
| tootie wrote:
| I know they're people. I occasionally banter. It's just
| pleasantries though. I don't remember any of them and I doubt
| they remember me.
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| Well I did, especially on my vacation to the US. I connected
| with almost anyone, especially in rural areas. Still cherishing
| the memory of the dude I talked to for ages in the gas station
| in the nowhere of Nevada. Or the place where I got the coffee
| that had lots of police patches from all over the world
| somewhere on the Route 66 in AZ.
| 1123581321 wrote:
| The employees and customers at a local convenience store have
| figured this out. While the customer's using the kiosk, the
| employee's restocking while keeping half an eye on the store.
| Both are freed up mentally to chat, and people in line also feel
| free to chat with the employee when it's not their turn because
| they're not interrupting anything. It's pleasant.
| julianeon wrote:
| Even at home, we've switched to the "digital kiosk" strategy.
|
| I'd put it this way: it is easier for a person who is preparing
| something to cross things off a digital list, than do things any
| other way.
|
| So for example, if we need something from the supermarket, don't
| tell me. Tell Alexa. Then when I'm in the supermarket, I'll
| access the list and buy what's on there.
|
| The digital version never forgets, and if the person making the
| request is entering it themselves, it's never wrong. So it's the
| best choice, really. Everything else isn't quite as good.
| speg wrote:
| While I do enjoy the digital kiosk for efficiency; they are
| limited in what they can do.
|
| Example from moments ago: my phone carrier is offering extra data
| - but when I tried to add it to my account online it said it was
| for new customers only.
|
| I called customer service, asked politely and the agent was more
| than happy to oblige.
|
| Sometimes, especially in edge cases, having a human work around
| the system on your behalf yields the most benefits.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Over-extrapolation imho. I strike up conversations, usually
| successfully, in most places. But I prefer ordering digitally.
| Better discovery, lower ambiguity, electronic upsell and tips are
| easier to ignore.
| cyco130 wrote:
| > Even a short and simple conversation can make you feel good.
|
| Well, for some, even a short and simple conversation can make
| them feel bad.
| timeagain wrote:
| Founder: I have figured out a way to automate the interpersonal
| interaction out of another core human experience!
|
| VC: Well that woman was mean to me at Starbucks once... here's
| $1B
| WesolyKubeczek wrote:
| While I thank you for this precious nugget of your worldview,
| please let me interject for a moment to express my loathing for
| the information contained therein, for I hate and despise it when
| strangers feel entitled to slide into my comfort zone uninvited.
|
| It never fails to astonish me how blind can extroverts be to the
| fact that there exist people who don't find it at all refreshing
| to have to talk to others all the time, and who find social
| accessibility devices like self-checkout and self-service
| liberating, especially since NCR rolled out a model of self-
| checkout POS that is not a pitiful box of UX fuckness it used to
| be. And no, we know how to be polite and most of the time we are.
| We also talk to people in social settings where this is expected
| of us. For example, a lengthy train journey where we cannot avoid
| our comfort zone from being inadvertently invaded, can sure be
| made better by conversation. However, I can't help but notice
| that most of the time, strangers talking to me, if it's not their
| job in their workplace, would like me to either join some cult or
| buy something from them.
|
| Needless to say, this makes me very wary of any such
| conversation. Hope you enjoy your day.
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| And here we are, exchanging views on the subject, for which I
| am sincerely grateful you took the effort to write your take on
| "my precious nugget' (love the metaphor!)
|
| Perhaps it is good to add that I do try to gauge other people's
| willingness to talk _before_ making any move. It gets easier to
| recognise and - this is something the author of the book noted
| to - somehow other people that are willing to talk sort of
| engage by themselves as if they recognise my willingness to
| talk. I think this happens because of non-verbal clues we are
| capable of picking up because of our evolution as species.
|
| And I am sure you would signal as "do not disturb" on my
| "stranger radar" - which I would absolutely respect diligently.
| Happy day to you, too. :-)
| curtisblaine wrote:
| > Even a short and simple conversation can make you feel good.
|
| Sometimes you need a short conversation, sometimes it's the last
| thing you need. It's good to have the choice.
| RobKohr wrote:
| I love touch screen checkout for ordering fast food and wish I
| could do it in the drive thru.
|
| We are a family of 6 and each person has their particular wants
| for an order. Too often when giving our order, things are not
| entered in, and the order gets messed up.
|
| With a digital entry I can quickly go through and pick things
| out, and instead of two points of failure (cashier and kitchen)
| only one place can mess the order up.
|
| Even if it is just me, I know what I want, can quickly browse to
| the thing I want every day, see other options I can take, and
| checkout without waiting in line.
|
| And I am an extreme extrovert, but I prefer not to foist my
| disorder on those that are paid to interact with me.
| eddieroger wrote:
| McDonald's will let you start an order in the app and pick it
| up at drive-thru, and for the times I get McD's, this has
| become my preferred way of ordering. I don't have to explain my
| substitutions and hope they're translated right. I don't have
| to order in a specific way, or be prepared with my meal/drink
| preference. I even get to prepay with ApplePay. It makes the
| whole experience so much more pleasant for me.
| eloisant wrote:
| They also have a big TV screen next to the speaker so when
| you ask them what they have on the menu they can simply show
| you.
|
| You can also see your order filling up so you can check it's
| correct.
|
| Honestly, McDonalds is not the best food but they really
| nailed it on the convenience part.
| wrboyce wrote:
| My local supermarket in the UK (Booths) has just removed the
| self-service tills from nearly all their stores because it had a
| drastic impact on their customer satisfaction surveys, something
| they pride themselves on.
| badrabbit wrote:
| Here I am longing for drones to replace grocery/food delivery
| people to reduce stranger contact and OP is on a different vibe.
|
| I would have agreed with you in the past, but the world changed
| quite a bit. It's also probably not a new thing but people are
| very mean, cruel, difficult, entitled,etc... we can still
| collaborate when we must no matter what, even remotely.
|
| Everything is recorded and everyone is politically extreme. Being
| a victim is trendy and attention is the new gold.
|
| As the saying goes (not that i fully agree): "Hell is other
| people".
|
| My humble opinion is that the root cause is a lack of legislation
| to regulate tech and its effect on us, and that in turn is driven
| by people used to the old world who don't have the stomach to
| support uncomfortable changes. Ideologies need to adapt to
| changing realities.
|
| One example I can give you is that there is no longer a
| consistent expectation of social etiquette and conduct. If the
| person from the blog post ordering on the kiosk had a rude
| experience for example, they can't just report it to a manager
| unless they be called a karen, have a hostile recorded reaction
| which might cost them their livelihood and relationships. Even if
| they could report it, corrective action is no longer realistic in
| today's world. And even if the interaction was pleasant for you,
| you might get spit in your food if you unknowingly offended them.
| Tap on a screen and you're all done, that's much better. Heck,
| order it for delivery from home and they won't even see you and
| get offended by your appearance!
|
| We live in a world of half informed clever assholes and constant
| animosity. It is genuinely a shock to find a decent real human
| being.
| dexwiz wrote:
| I think he has a great point. Its crazy to me how much some have
| withdrawn into their digital world. There is so much talk today
| about understanding each other and unity, that it makes me wonder
| how much of those calls are pure projection. Our personal bubbles
| have crystalized into diamond shells, sound dampened by AirPods.
|
| Talking to strangers carries risk. They could always say
| something to makes you feel bad, or be physically threatening.
| But like in all things in life, you have to be able to assess
| risk. And taking small risks that may open doors is surely better
| than never taking a risk ever.
|
| Although I do disagree with asking questions like "Where are you
| going?" Personal questions that reveal specific details like
| location trigger many people's alarms. Its easier to talk about
| something in the local environment where there is no asymmetric
| information/power dynamic.
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| This. Thank you.
|
| > "Where are you going?" It is good to add that this is not my
| first question. Like you suggested, it is better to start with
| something that can be perceived by both parties (the author in
| the book refers to this as triangulation), you talk about
| something 'simple and stupid' like the weather to 'gauge' if
| the other party is interested in engaging. The author of the
| book (Joe Keohane) actually gives a bunch of tips to prevent
| the conversation from stalling because of 'standard script'
| (e.g. standard conditioned questions+responses like 'how do you
| do'). Worth the deep dive if you're experimenting and looking
| to get the balance right (and prevent to be perceived as the
| 'town's fool'. )
| eloisant wrote:
| Yes, we evolved as a social species that thrived because of
| collaboration.
|
| But for most of our history we lived in small communities. Modern
| cities where you cross hundreds of new strangers every single day
| isn't the environment where we evolved.
|
| Being able to ignore strangers is necessary to keep sanity.
| MichaelRo wrote:
| >> Being able to ignore strangers is necessary to keep sanity.
|
| Precisely. Even in my clubs/bars drinking strategy of
| approaching strangers, I make great effort to become "familiar"
| to them before making the move.
|
| In fact picking up a random stranger for a conversation is in
| no way different than picking a chick for a possible later
| "good time" in a club.
|
| First and foremost you need to become nonverbally accustomed to
| them and they to you. And unless pushing for town's idiot, need
| to get the signals that they are OK talking to you. Otherwise
| especially when booze is involved, things can get messy fast.
| (You gotta be prepared for this situation too if you do this).
| MichaelRo wrote:
| There's an advantage in talking to total strangely
| (intellectually) connected strangers than friends or family.
|
| It's discussing sensitive issues like what to do when you got
| a crazy b*ch wife. Years of attrition and refinement
| eventually resulting in:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38267382
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| > picking a chick
|
| Is there a need to use this kind of language here?
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| Agreed! But it also has a high cost for the community of the
| city. I still prefer my Airpods in the sub.
| MichaelRo wrote:
| >> Over the past few weeks, I have been engaging in conversations
| with random people: at the train station, in the supermarket, on
| the street, and in the city.
|
| Well, for a while I jumped into the "being different and talk to
| strangers rather than ignore them" boat too. But human society
| has it's reasons why it behaves this way as a standard.
|
| Unless you wanna run for the "town's lunatic" contest, better
| respect people's boundaries: https://cdn.cluj.com/cluj/lulu-
| cluj-750x380.jpg
|
| There are a few exceptions to the rule, even that in need of
| careful threading of the waters.
|
| - One is drinking in bars and clubs. It's there where I do my
| part of my "approaching strangers" routine. It's fun but I never
| "carried over", staying in touch with the respective strangers.
|
| - Not the same can be said about the other socially acceptable
| way of "how to win friends and influence people": coffee shops.
| More precisely if you want to do this: coffee SHOP. You need to
| stick around for long enough to become a regular, to both waiter
| personnel and the clients. Of which you eventually notice the
| regulars. And it's not only socially acceptable to engage in
| conversations with them, you actually can start loose
| friendships. Absolutely necessary in general to compensate for
| the general attrition rate in friends circle. Friendship, like
| any business, needs new hires :)
| rokkitmensch wrote:
| Learning to read body language and understanding which people
| are open to conversation helps with "town lunatic" syndrome.
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| This, exactly. The funny thing is that once you start reading
| body language (as in paying attention to it) - somehow other
| people pick this up, too.
|
| The author (Joe Keohane) in the book that I mentioned in my
| blog post noticed this too, once you start looking - it often
| happens that other folks find you (first) and start talking.
| cortesoft wrote:
| I am not an extrovert, but I do enjoy good conversations.
|
| However, I rarely enjoy my conversations with strangers. Maybe it
| is a selection bias, but strangers who try to talk to me are
| almost always painful to talk to. They say things that make no
| sense, and leave me having to smile and nod at nonsense. I don't
| think I have ever had an interesting or engaging conversation
| with a stranger.
| bigkahuna1986 wrote:
| This hits home here. If one of those talkative people is
| driving the conversation, it almost always leads to politics or
| some other subject where I eventually just have to say "Gotta
| go, bye!" and basically run out the door.
| gffrd wrote:
| > I don't think I have ever had an interesting or engaging
| conversation with a stranger
|
| How have you ever met a person? Everyone was a stranger to you
| at some point.
| cortesoft wrote:
| I was using stranger to mean someone who I meet on the street
| with no context, not someone I am introduced to.
| mihaitodor wrote:
| While it's not really the same thing, I do enjoy meeting
| somewhat-random people on https://lunchclub.com. It's biased
| towards technical people and, unfortunately, I think there's a
| large gender / diversity gap, but I still get value out of
| talking with 3 complete strangers each week during 45 minute
| video calls. I'd love to see such a platform become more
| mainstream and popular in the city where I'm based, so I could
| meet them in person.
| Gys wrote:
| Before covid I organized regular friending events in several
| European cities. Using a mobile app participants would be paired
| with a new person every 10 minutes or so.
|
| It always fascinated me to see how people experienced these
| events. People were silently waiting in line to be checked in by
| the host, to be paired (for example) with the person behind, a
| person that was there for the same reason: meeting new people!
| But still the structure of the event was needed to start a
| conversation with that stranger.
|
| The event was usually 1 - 1,5 hours and sure enough they would
| talk to anybody else in the room after that :)
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| This is so cool! In the book that I described in my blog post,
| the author (Joe Keohane) explains that sometimes people need a
| sort of "permission" to engage, your events fulfilled that.
|
| Another well accepted context for strangers to engage is when
| something bad or disastrous happens. Better not wait until
| _that_ time, but it is easy to understand that boundaries fall
| away when the going gets tough. It is a survival mechanism.
| Gys wrote:
| > sometimes people need a sort of "permission" to engage,
| your events fulfilled that.
|
| Yes! I will read the book :-)
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| I love to talk to just about anyone, but when I ordered a pumpkin
| spice latte, decaf with almond milk I would've really preferred a
| digital kiosk tbh. Felt really weird to order this as a dude,
| even though I wanted it. I also don't get pushed into weird and
| totally overblown tips. (Even though I'm based in Germany, it got
| to us as well. Thanks USA!)
| jdporter wrote:
| The book Willem says he is reading, by Joe Keohane, talks about
| the benefits of talking to strangers, and calls this
| "connecting". That is not at all what psychologists mean by
| "connecting". I talk to people all the time, both familiar and
| strange, and yet am not connected to anyone, in the latter sense.
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| Thanks for pointing this out. I purposefully write about
| "talking" to strangers. But, in the book Jeo Keohane actually
| goes a long way to have more meaningful, deeper, conversations.
|
| By offering yourself as attentive listener, random strangers
| that you engage with can feel comfortable enough to share a
| little more than just smalltalk. The book discusses several
| cases where folks with very different backgrounds and ideas
| actually come together, sometimes even forming friendships.
|
| As I am not a psychologist I do not know the accepted
| definition of "connecting", but I am sure it needs more than
| just smalltalk. I don't know, I am just a random guy doing a
| little experiment. :-)
| pedalpete wrote:
| I had a girlfriend who would get visibly anxious in the grocery
| store line if she hadn't introduced herself to the person in
| front of her. People were often shocked when she would randomly
| introduce herself, but it often turned into interesting but brief
| conversations.
|
| When I moved overseas, she told me that I should do it, and I do
| on a regular basis - though not in the grocery store line, and I
| don't get anxious if I don't do it.
|
| I've definitely made some interesting connections, including with
| a guy on a bus in 2012 who transferred me my first bitcoin on
| that bus and got me into crypto. I wish I knew he was so I could
| thank him.
|
| I've never regretted reaching out to a single person. Sometimes
| people don't want to talk, and that is easily noticeable.
| Sometimes I don't end up wanting to talk to them, and that's a
| bit harder for me to exit.
|
| Give it a shot, but do be conscious of other people's feelings
| and understand quickly if they want to be left alone.
| jeffrallen wrote:
| You wouldn't regret talking to me because I would hopefully be
| polite about it. But I'd rather you didn't.
|
| Now to admit my hippocrite bonafides: I talked to a random guy
| the other day, and we both seemed to enjoy it. But we were
| unexpectedly in each other's way at a boat ramp, and in
| exchange for asking him to move his trailer, I offered to help
| him move stuff. He refused my help, I stubbornly loaded my boat
| up myself without asking for his help (though I needed it) and
| we had a nice chat by the car window on the way out. I think I
| liked talking to him because he seemed equally happy to be as
| stubborn and introverted as me. :)
| ajcp wrote:
| Was this a cultural thing with your girlfriend? Or rather OCD?
| Or was she an extreme extrovert?
| pard68 wrote:
| I always avoid those kiosks. I prefer a cashier to a screen to
| the point that I simple do not shop at places which do not give
| me the choice to checkout with a human.
| interstice wrote:
| I feel like cities and technology can result in over-
| socialisation for a lot of people. I've noticed that dogs that
| spend a lot of time being fussed over (eg living in a cafe)
| become quite indifferent to people, and living in a city I feel
| the same thing has happened to me to a degree.
|
| That's not to say I'm not social or that I don't talk to
| strangers, its just more of a conscious decision than - say -
| talking to the only other human I've seen that day might be.
| gumby wrote:
| Some motivations to use kiosk: unfamiliar / uncomfortable with
| local language, desire to remove ambiguity, difficulty hearing /
| noisy environment, already being talked out by the time you get
| to the restaurant...
|
| I prefer to talk to the person behind the counter because even
| when I'm not in the mood for a human conversation I think it's
| rude to use the kiosk when a person is right there. But certainly
| there are days when I'd rather use the kiosk but won't for the
| rudeness reason.
| emodendroket wrote:
| I think a spontaneous conversation is one of those things that
| feels daunting but makes you feel good if you do it. Though
| occasionally you end up in an awkward one like the time my cab
| driver gave me a gory history of his wife cheating on him back in
| Ghana, I eventually ran out of things to say in response, and we
| sat in silence for another twenty minutes or so.
| louwrentius wrote:
| Leuk blog, gaaf domein! Groeten uit Haarlem.
| TheGRS wrote:
| Overall point: agreed, talking to strangers can be a great
| experience and is the stuff of adventures and stories sometimes.
| I've travelled alone a few times and the experience always puts
| me in a persona where I talk to random people whenever I have the
| chance. I've met people in bars and airplanes, hell I've had some
| great dates with girls I've met and adventures with groups this
| way. Its fun, I recommend it.
|
| But when it comes to chatting up service people? Meh. It can be
| fun, but the experience is mixed and its not really why that
| person is behind the counter. Often people struggle just to make
| the right order, let alone ask how their day is going.
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