[HN Gopher] Why did US $2 bill fail to become commonplace, unlik...
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       Why did US $2 bill fail to become commonplace, unlike in Canada and
       elsewhere?
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 18 points
       Date   : 2023-11-12 17:16 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
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       | n1b0m wrote:
       | Due to a mistaken belief that they might be valuable as
       | collector's items which results in them being hoarded and so not
       | widely circulated.
        
         | ksaj wrote:
         | That's like 50c coins. Both USA and Canada have them, but they
         | tend to be collected instead of spent. Afaik they have only
         | ever kept their worth at 50c.
        
           | jareklupinski wrote:
           | i wonder what the economic impact was of all those 50 State
           | Quarters books kept in people's closets
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | The real question is more why it _became_ popular anywhere else.
       | 
       | Currency denominations seem to be efficient* when they follow
       | roughly half-an-order-of-manitude increases -- e.g. $0.05 to
       | $0.25 to $1 to $5 to $20 to $100.
       | 
       | Adding mere doublings in there just complicates things for no
       | good reason. There's already no particularly good functional
       | reason for dimes or $10 bills, except we seem to want a
       | denomination for every power of 10 -- it's more of an aesthetic
       | thing.
       | 
       | But there's _absolutely_ no practical reason for a $2. There 's
       | no functional reason and no aesthetic reason either.
       | 
       | * Finding a practical balance between carrying a minimal number
       | of bills for any given total value (where powers of 2 would win),
       | versus minimizing infrastructure like sizes of cash registers
       | (where powers of 10 would save space in layout).
       | 
       | (Edit: maybe the case is different for heavy coins though? E.g.
       | $10 in $2 coins will weigh significantly less than in $1 coins in
       | your pocket. On the other hand, the US already mainly uses bills
       | for $1, which is why $2 makes no sense in the US.)
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | I don't know, we have 2EUR coins and they aren't such of an
         | issue, they are handy.
        
           | FirmwareBurner wrote:
           | Would it be any less useful if the coin were 2,5 Euros?
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | It would definitely complicate mental math for most people.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | How so? Prices are rarely fixed even integers so people
               | are used to floats anyway.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | You need to understand how people do math mentally,
               | especially cashiers.
               | 
               | When someone pays, say 6.80 euros and gives you a 10 what
               | virtually every cashier does is:
               | 
               | - tell you it's 6.80
               | 
               | - add 20 cents to get to 7 and put them on the table
               | while saying "seven"
               | 
               | - add 1 euro to get to 8 and put them on the table saying
               | "eight"
               | 
               | - add 2 euros to get to 10, put them on the table "and
               | ten, thank you good bye"
               | 
               | Now add 2.50 euros to the mix. It gets complex and slower
               | which is what you want to avoid when counting money.
               | 
               | Same reason why we have 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50c coins but no
               | 25c one.
               | 
               | Some shops have the machines do the calculation and even
               | give you the change automatically, but that's not most of
               | the businesses, it's more common in supermarkets than say
               | a diner, a gas station or your auntie's garage.
        
               | mlyle wrote:
               | Imagine if Coke had gotten their way and had gotten a 7.5
               | cent coin issued in the US...
        
         | mlyle wrote:
         | 1 to 5 is .7 orders of magnitude; 1 to 2 is 0.3; both are
         | roughly equidistant from half an order of magnitude.
         | 
         | Clearly we need $1, $3, $9, $27 bills ;)
         | 
         | An interesting thing to think about is-- assuming the
         | distribution of transaction values follows a power law--
         | where's the point of diminishing returns on having more
         | denominations? I know this isn't well-posed; we'd also have to
         | quantify the downside in having more denominations.
        
           | dasyatidprime wrote:
           | Exactly equidistant, in fact. 5x2 = 10 [?] log(5) + log(2) =
           | log(10) [?] 0.5log(10) - log(2) = log(5) - 0.5log(10).
        
             | mlyle wrote:
             | Good point-- I should have thought that through a little
             | more :)
        
         | jltsiren wrote:
         | The 1, 2, 5 scheme is simple and consistent. You use the same
         | algorithm for giving back change, regardless of the sum. There
         | are other similar schemes, but 1, 2, 5 seems to be the most
         | popular. The US scheme, on the other hand, is unnecessarily
         | complex. For some weird reason, there are $0.25 coins but $20
         | bills. For the sake of consistency and simplicity, one of them
         | should be replaced by either a $0.20 coin or a $25 bill.
        
         | jorvi wrote:
         | > Currency denominations seem to be efficient* when they follow
         | roughly half-an-order-of-manitude increases -- e.g. $0.05 to
         | $0.25 to $1 to $5 to $20 to $100.
         | 
         | Thanks but no. I'm not gonna carry around four bills ($5 x2,
         | $20 x2) if I just want to carry $50.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Why would you need to carry $50 exactly?
           | 
           | You'd just carry three $20's.
           | 
           | Cashiers and stores hate it when you break $50's anyways.
        
         | cameldrv wrote:
         | By that argument though the $20 should also not be popular and
         | we should just use $10s and $50s, but the $20 is very common
         | and the default bill given out at ATMs.
        
       | pizzafeelsright wrote:
       | It's a half measure. We need full notes and permit quarter notes.
       | Even half notes exist but are rarely used.
        
       | keep_reading wrote:
       | Canada doesn't have a $2 bill it has a coin. This isn't a good
       | comparison.
       | 
       | We shouldn't have $1 or $2 bills because they fall out of
       | circulation too fast, but everybody interested in this topic
       | knows it already.
       | 
       | It's bizarre how antiquated our cash is and how there is no
       | appetite for removing the penny from circulation either. I really
       | thought we were going to pursue this like 20 years ago but
       | nope... our government is too dysfunctional for even these types
       | of changes
        
         | tredre3 wrote:
         | Canada withdrew its $2 bill in 1996 (when it introduced the
         | coin) but it was still pretty common until 2000.
         | 
         | Canada also withdrew its penny in 2012. There's been talks of
         | withdrawing the 5c coin recently but I doubt it will happen
         | soon.
        
       | avidiax wrote:
       | Related: What This Country Needs is an 18C/ Piece[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~shallit/Papers/change2.pdf
        
       | ianburrell wrote:
       | One reason is that registers don't have a spot for $2. It sounds
       | like they have slots for $1, $5, $10, $20. The result is that
       | people never get $2 as change. Which means that they never
       | circulate. Any $2 that are spent are sent to the bank.
        
         | calamari4065 wrote:
         | Every register I've seen has five unlabeled slots for bills and
         | five trays for coins. That usually means you have a slot for
         | 1s, 5s, 10s, 20s, then everything else. Coins are the same: 1,
         | 5, 10, 25, then whatever else shows up.
        
       | inglor_cz wrote:
       | To be frank, I don't understand why the USD 1 bill exists either.
       | 
       | In Europe, we tend to have coins up to the value of approximately
       | USD 2, included. The eurozone obviously has 1 and 2 euro coin.
       | Czechia has 20 CZK and 50 CZK coin. Poland is slightly bucking
       | the trend, because 5 PLN is a coin (of value more than 1 USD),
       | but 10 PLN is already a bill. Bulgarian has 1 BGN and 2 BGN
       | coins...
       | 
       | Coins can take a lot more daily use than paper money, and are
       | handy to use in parking automats etc.
       | 
       | I wonder of one of the reasons for this difference is that US WCs
       | tend to be free?
       | 
       | Toilets are paid in much of Europe, and you generally use a
       | suitable coin for access, though lately some of the facilities
       | started accepting contactless cards as well. Paying for a toilet
       | with a bill would be very impractical. That is a frequent use
       | case in Europe, which necessitates existence of suitable coins.
       | But in the US, this use case seems to be rare, if extant at all.
        
         | MarkusWandel wrote:
         | One thing about these free washrooms is that they're hard to
         | find, they're often dirty, and a lot of them have restrictive
         | opening hours. Frankly paying a small sum for use, and finding
         | reliable, clean facilities might be a good tradeoff.
         | 
         | As for coins being useful for parking, around here (Canada)
         | we've already moved beyond the pay-and-display machines (which
         | don't even accept cash) to - horrors - a sign with a QR code.
         | Nothing worse than wanting to do a quick 15 minute stop to show
         | visitors something, scanning the QR code and being greeted with
         | an account signup page that demands a ton of information. But
         | cash? Hardly used at all any more.
         | 
         | The only US$2 bill I've ever encountered - and of course I kept
         | it as a souvenir - was in the change for a $5 in Tanzania, of
         | all places. The Plattsburgh ferry used to give either 50 cent
         | or $1 coins in change for $10 - this dates me!
         | 
         | The pre-loonie Canadian $1 coins obviously never gained any
         | collector value. I got a sheet of a whole bunch of different
         | years at a garage sale for face value!
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | Personally I don't love the $1/2 coins. Bills are better for
       | those of us who only carry a wallet.
        
       | drpgq wrote:
       | I remember hearing as a kid that $2 bills in weren't popular in
       | Western Canada as that was the common price prostitutes charged
       | and the stigma stuck around.
        
       | the-dude wrote:
       | Steve Wozniak likes his $2 bills.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-12 23:01 UTC)