[HN Gopher] Win-Vind: Vim key binder for Windows
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       Win-Vind: Vim key binder for Windows
        
       Author : philonoist
       Score  : 203 points
       Date   : 2023-11-12 02:32 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pit-ray.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pit-ray.github.io)
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | You can already use Windows exclusively with the keyboard since
       | at least 3.11, although I'm not sure if they've since broken some
       | of that in 11.
        
         | MrVandemar wrote:
         | Indeed. With the File Explorer keyboard shortcuts, and naming
         | folders sensibly, you can very swiftly navigate around the file
         | system with just the keyboard.
         | 
         | I'm the only one at work who does this.
        
           | eviks wrote:
           | Can you press A to swiftly go to the parent dir and B to go
           | to the previous dir in history (and C for the next), and D to
           | switch to the next tab?
        
             | jachee wrote:
             | Sorta? Alt-uparrow navigates to the parent directory.
             | (Also, Alt-left/right arrow will move back and forth
             | through your folder history.) Ctrl-Tab/Ctrl-Shift-Tab will
             | switch among next/previous tabs.
        
             | RuggedPineapple wrote:
             | Alt+up arrow gets you to the parent directory. Alt+left
             | arrow gets you to the previous folder in the history.
             | Ctrl+tab gets you to the next tab, or ctrl+[number] to go
             | directly to a specific tab.
        
               | eviks wrote:
               | How is Alt-up, which requires holding a modifier and
               | moving your hand off home row, a SWIFT alternative?
        
               | RuggedPineapple wrote:
               | If it's not for you its not for you, but pretending that
               | a keyboard shortcut of alt plus a key is somehow an
               | entirely different concept and outside the realm of
               | alternative is pretty hilarious.
        
               | eviks wrote:
               | I've capitalized that word specifically for you, but yes,
               | if ignore speed, then bad keybinds are in the same realm.
               | 
               | Likewise, having a single E key to jump down by 10 items
               | in your realm would be no different than pressing the
               | down arrow 10 times , or using search to find the file
               | which ends with "_abc" is no different than using your
               | eyes to find all such files and then using a cursor to
               | nagivate to them and select - after all, these are all
               | keyboard-only (except for the find part)!
        
               | RuggedPineapple wrote:
               | lol, I just figured out I'm being trolled. It was subtle
               | at first, but you went a little over the top with the
               | comic book guy style 'well akshully' stuff at the end
               | that let me suss it out, but you really did have me going
               | for a while. Kudos.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | Backspace is sufficient to go to the previous.
        
         | nolongerthere wrote:
         | A lot of that functionality was neutered in Win10 and even more
         | was totally removed in Win11, imo the issue is that apparently
         | all the UX devs at microsoft use macs and are trying to MacOS-
         | ize windows.
         | 
         | Specifically the start menu is no longer nearly as keyboard
         | friendly as it used to be, but other parts are also broken,
         | settings is supremely broken wrt keyboard nav, the context menu
         | is just a mess in Win11.
        
           | danjc wrote:
           | Start menu is also stupidly laggy. You hit start and have to
           | wait before typing text will actually activate the search.
        
             | yellow_postit wrote:
             | It's the focus on Bing integration and waiting for web
             | results.
        
             | addicted wrote:
             | I absolutely detest how I have had to train myself to pause
             | after hitting the Windows key.
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | I believe that's at least partially because they rewrote it
             | in UWP.
        
             | hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
             | Much better to install PowerToys and hit Alt+Enter to find
             | whatever exe you need. And if you're hunting down a
             | specific file - install Everything, then Alt+Enter ->
             | Everything -> search to your heart's content.
        
               | jdhendrickson wrote:
               | Add in flowlauncher and it becomes even more useful.
        
               | hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
               | Looks slick! https://github.com/Flow-
               | Launcher/Flow.Launcher
               | 
               | Do you know if it does anything like what Everything does
               | re/ tapping into Windows's underlying file database?
        
               | avtar wrote:
               | Looks like there's an Everything plugin
               | https://github.com/Flow-
               | Launcher/Flow.Launcher#everything-pl...
        
               | iconhacker wrote:
               | The best is https://fluentsearch.net/ that supports on
               | screen keywords search as well as a powerful launcher and
               | file indexer. For screen search it supports UIA as well
               | as image/text based on OCR like search. It is the best
               | and more accurate than win-vind.
        
               | avtolik wrote:
               | PowerToys Run is even slower than the Windows start menu.
               | And I have disabled a half of the plugins including file
               | and folder search.
        
               | ImaCake wrote:
               | I find it to be much, much faster. Not sure what might be
               | the difference between our experiences here. I basically
               | dont open the windows menu bar anymore, especially since
               | the powertoys run bar has a shutdown keyword too.
        
               | hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
               | Confirming the other comment - I've always found it to be
               | much faster than the start menu, on every corporate
               | issued ThinkPad I've used in the last year (3). Maybe
               | something is weird on your machine.
        
               | linhns wrote:
               | Might want to reinstall. Mine was also sluggish on the
               | first installation but afterwards run swimmingly
        
               | subtra3t wrote:
               | Speaking of PowerToys, does anybody know of similar
               | generic useful tools for Windows? I know that a lot of
               | such apps exist for macOS, but I haven't found many for
               | Windows.
        
               | pohuing wrote:
               | There's Monitorian to change external screen brightness,
               | eartrumpet to give a better audio settings experience in
               | your tray and AutomaticDarkMode to change your system
               | theme based on some conditions (such as time). These are
               | the utilities I always install. Apart from that I use
               | ExplorerPatcher because win11 took a big step back in the
               | start menu and task bar flyouts.
        
               | sva_ wrote:
               | > And if you're hunting down a specific file - install
               | Everything, then Alt+Enter -> Everything -> search to
               | your heart's content.
               | 
               | Imagine your operating system's search is so bad that you
               | allow a closed source app to hook the entire file api
        
             | bboygravity wrote:
             | Doesn't Classic Shell (or whatever its follow-up is called)
             | fix this like it did in Win10?
             | 
             | If not that alone is reason enough for me not to upgrado to
             | Win11.
        
           | PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
           | start menu searching was amazing in windows 7 and completely
           | bonkers bad in windows 10 (haven't tried 11).
           | 
           | It's actually hard for me to fathom how they took the best OS
           | they've ever produced (win7) and evolved that into win10.
        
             | vladvasiliu wrote:
             | > and completely bonkers bad in windows 10 (haven't tried
             | 11)
             | 
             | Still bad in 11. The other day it had a hard time finding
             | notepad for some reason, even after typing in the full
             | name.
        
               | PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
               | yes! I've seen that too, especially after a fresh reboot.
               | But if you wait a bit and search again it'll find it.
        
               | wredue wrote:
               | The worst is that lots of the time you can just type
               | "not" and hit enter and 99% you'll get notepad. But then
               | it'll randomly just do something else.
               | 
               | God forbid you don't disable bing search. If you don't,
               | that search is all kinds of fucked up.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | I... what? OSX has been very keyboard friendly for as long as
           | I can remember. Sonoma is buggier than previous versions, but
           | you're been able use the keyboard to navigate most UI widgets
           | except for the menus just as before.
        
             | abdusco wrote:
             | It has no access keys (underlined letters in menus) which
             | forces you to use touchpad
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | You can definitely navigate the menu bar with your
               | keyboard, there's even a little search thing in there to
               | search through the menu items.
        
             | eviks wrote:
             | > except for the menus just as before.
             | 
             | that's a huge exception
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | it's not discoverable in the slightest, but if you hit
               | fn-control-f2, you can access the menus via cursor keys
               | instead of having to use the mouse
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | It's actually listed here:
               | 
               | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236
               | 
               | And so is "open the help menu" which would take you right
               | to the menu search widget, but that doesn't seem to work
               | at all in Firefox or Electron apps.
        
               | eviks wrote:
               | Thanks for the tip, I'm aware of it, but it breaks the
               | core benefit of Alt+X : guaranteed repeats, with fn-
               | control-f2-F-Enter you can't be certain to open the File
               | menu since there might be another menu starting with F
               | 
               | Predictability is a core feature of UI design
               | 
               | Anyway, personally I use a better alternative to fully
               | recreate the Alt+X to open a menu via keyboard maestro,
               | so I've sovled the issue for myself, but it still is a
               | core Mac deficiency contrary to the "OSX has been very
               | keyboard friendly" claim
        
             | Sakos wrote:
             | What does that have to do with it? They're clearly going
             | for the aesthetic without considerations for how users
             | actually interact with it. It's likely they don't even know
             | how what keyboard navigation is like on MacOS, because they
             | don't use keyboard navigation.
        
         | eviks wrote:
         | Not really, many operations are too painful to do using the
         | default design primitives, the short jump labels for all the UI
         | elements that this app has is an especially good paradigm
        
         | PhilipRoman wrote:
         | This is a godsend for quickly solving hardware issues when
         | mouse is unavailable. I've also had to use the reverse (only
         | mouse, no keyboard)
        
       | appleskeptic wrote:
       | This is extremely cool. What a testament to the Windows APIs too.
        
       | chezelenkoooo wrote:
       | I haven't used windows in a long time but I love seeing features
       | like this.
        
       | yonatan8070 wrote:
       | This looks like Vimium for the desktop, I'd love to try it out at
       | some point
        
       | ashton314 wrote:
       | For macOS users who like the keyboard, Shortcat is awesome. I'm
       | not affiliated, just a happy user: https://shortcat.app/
        
         | TheVultix wrote:
         | I'd also recommend looking at kindavim: https://kindavim.app/
         | 
         | Also a happy customer here. I use shortcut and kindavim in
         | tandem
        
           | shizzy0 wrote:
           | Dang, this kindavim is kinda amazing.
        
           | hollander wrote:
           | But why is this a subscription?
        
             | hnlmorg wrote:
             | Yeah I was ready to pay right up until I realised it was a
             | subscription. Man do I miss the days when you used to buy
             | software and only pay for the upgrades
        
         | tannerellen wrote:
         | Thanks for mentioning this. Just installed it and it's just
         | what I've wanted. Been using vimium in the browser for a long
         | time but I was always frustrated with every other app that I
         | couldn't use my keyboard to navigate.
        
         | crunchbang123 wrote:
         | There's also Homerow: https://www.homerow.app
        
       | mpaepper wrote:
       | Wow, does something like this exist for Ubuntu as well?
        
         | MistaGobo wrote:
         | i3wm might be what you're looking for.
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | There's a bunch of things like i3wm. But I have to give a big
         | warning. These are very addictive and you'll go down rabbit
         | holes making your system beautiful and easy to use (for you and
         | absolutely no one else) that you may lose lots of productivity
         | (well... work productivity?). So caution, do not visit
         | /r/unixporn and do not search tools like picom and rofi. Sure,
         | the life looks glamorous but it is an addiction worse than MTG
         | or Warhammer, albeit cheaper. Fuck it, who am I kidding, go for
         | it.
        
           | mpaepper wrote:
           | I use xmonad as a tiling wm, which I guess is quite similar
           | to i3, but what I mean is that you can control all apps with
           | vim like experience a la vimium. For example controlling gimp
           | with vim key bindings. Does i3wm support that?
           | 
           | It sounds like this app for windows does that.
        
             | broscillator wrote:
             | Programs that highly rely on their GUI are probably not the
             | best for vim-like binds, imo they're the exception. And
             | even if you did want that, you'd need a whole
             | reimplementation from the program itself, to include modes.
        
           | theblazehen wrote:
           | It took a long time to get it there, but my current config
           | hasn't changed significantly in ~5 years, and it works very
           | effectively
        
             | broscillator wrote:
             | Same, this is something they don't tell you. That the
             | rabbit hole _does_ have a bottom, and it 's really
             | comfortable down there!
        
         | mpaepper wrote:
         | This sounds a bit like it. Haven't tried it yet, though.
         | 
         | https://github.com/phil294/vimium-everywhere
        
       | kqbx wrote:
       | I wanted to build something like this but for Linux, especially
       | the vimium-like hints that would work in any app. I even made a
       | prototype by abusing the AT-SPI2 accessibility API.
       | Unfortunately, querying AT-SPI2 for all buttons takes too long in
       | complex apps. And even if it was fast, many apps (especially non-
       | GTK ones) implement accessibility poorly or don't implement it at
       | all, so I abandoned the project.
       | 
       | I guess it would be possible to make a framework specific
       | implementation, for example by replacing the GTK shared library
       | with a modified version, but that's too much effort and I lost
       | interest in the whole 'mouseless' thing anyway.
        
         | ossusermivami wrote:
         | at least for the terminal, I use kitty which has a "hint" mode
         | https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/kittens/hints/
         | 
         | I use this with emacs and avy + firefox and vimium and don't
         | need it anywhere else (works across OS too)
        
         | phil294 wrote:
         | I have built this here https://github.com/phil294/vimium-
         | everywhere, and it works okay-ish performance-wise. For
         | example, generating the click hints on this thread on Firefox
         | takes (including FF's UI elements) takes one second, perhaps
         | less on a fast machine. I use it on a daily basis. It needed a
         | lot of optimizations to get to that point though. There are
         | also a few alternatives listed.
         | 
         | And almost all applications support at-spi once you set some
         | env vars! Including electron apps etc., see the readme
        
         | broscillator wrote:
         | The thing about linux is that ime you can just implement this
         | individually across all (most) the apps I use. I have vim-like
         | binds for mpv, my pdf reader, terminal emulator/terminal file
         | manager, image viewer, and of course my window manager.
         | 
         | The ones where I don't are the ones where it would be too
         | complex to be taken care of by an external app. A DAW would
         | need its own core implementation of modes for example, same
         | with something like Krita and in that case it would probably
         | not even be advisable.
        
       | i_am_proteus wrote:
       | Maybe with this tool, 2024 will finally be the year of the
       | Windows desktop.
        
       | amoss wrote:
       | Looking at the usage page of the docs leaves me confused. Does
       | this rebind the ':'-key system wide??? How would that work with
       | using the key in normal text entry fields, or in vim?
        
       | cristeigabriel wrote:
       | The first thing I did is to check if the easyclick functionality
       | uses UIA. It does. I am very satisfied. For those interested,
       | Windows Kits comes with a tool called INSPECT.EXE, which allows
       | you to interrogate UIs. Very cool!
        
       | gsuuon wrote:
       | Wait -- you also get a window manager for free?? This is very
       | cool.
        
       | silentguy wrote:
       | A very happy user of this. I mainly use it's vimium like feature.
       | And, the author is very responsive on github.
        
       | bsnnkv wrote:
       | I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that people who are interested
       | this might also be interested in a tiling window manager for
       | Windows[1]
       | 
       | [1]: https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komorebi
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-12 23:01 UTC)