[HN Gopher] Microsoft pulls OneDrive update that would quiz you ...
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       Microsoft pulls OneDrive update that would quiz you before letting
       you quit
        
       Author : stalfosknight
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2023-11-10 20:58 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | input_sh wrote:
       | Discussed 3x yesterday:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38197715
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38208568
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38208473
        
       | amlozano wrote:
       | The last line of the article is just a stunningly good summary:
       | 
       | "But it's just one more annoying default you need to change to
       | make sure that modern Windows stays out of your way."
       | 
       | Microsoft is constantly pushing the limit of what users will
       | tolerate. I switched non-technical people to Linux OSes after
       | hearing about this, and heard no complaints from them. It's
       | almost like Microsoft wants to lose whatever footholds they have
       | left.
        
         | tornato7 wrote:
         | I started using Kubuntu and I absolutely loved it. Leagues
         | ahead of Windows 11 in terms of user experience, customization,
         | and speed.
         | 
         | However, I had to switch back. I just can't get by without
         | Adobe apps and other specific productivity apps and video games
         | that I couldn't get to run on Ubuntu. Maybe some day!
        
           | cdelsolar wrote:
           | Gimp, figma, Kdenlive, etc
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | I don't use windows at all, but for others (parents, s/o,..) i
         | would install it as a 'default' (because every instruction
         | anyone was written for windows)...
         | 
         | Then they added ads in the start menu, and I found it easier to
         | deal with the "this is linux, not windows, to do this, you have
         | to do that", than to constanty fix and change windows settings
         | making stuff shittier by default.
        
       | Multicomp wrote:
       | This is an unforced error on Microsoft's part. The latest in a
       | long line. But I'm not even surprised these days, just
       | disappointed.
       | 
       | I must have just had rose-tinted glasses when I was young, but I
       | totally believed the 'force augmentation' PR Microsoft offered
       | with their Windows XP tour and their SkyDrive initial offering
       | and their Office 2010 ribbon. I was young enough to not get why
       | people complained so much about those switches. Grow up, toolbars
       | are old and boring, this is cool, life is change, yada yada.
       | 
       | Now? After the confusing Windows 8, the killing of WP7, the
       | spyware of W10, the forced updates of W10, the loss of
       | fundamental human interface guideline compliance and look & feel
       | by new-age UX designers who have forgotten the lessons of the
       | past searching to be the next not-Apple of W11, (I could go on)
       | I've grown so sick of Microsoft's current direction that I've
       | apparently clipped over to the other side of the screen.
       | 
       | Now, I don't care. I miss what I see and saw as good. I let my
       | inertia keeping me using Onenote and familiar tools. But I'm not
       | in love with MS like I used to be, I had to let go of MS
       | fanboyism to hang on to "fight for the users" fanboyism.
       | 
       | Luckily the Year of the Linux Desktop will arrive shortly, any
       | second now, and we will be fine (EDIT: /s). In the meantime, I've
       | had to treat my computers as tools, not hobby projects...it's too
       | depressing otherwise.
        
         | deafpolygon wrote:
         | > Year of the Linux Desktop will arrive shortly
         | 
         | I think we've been saying this since at least 1990.
        
           | jamespo wrote:
           | We have tablets and phones now all running unix variants
        
             | ziddoap wrote:
             | > _Year of the Linux _Desktop_ will arrive shortly_
             | 
             | I don't consider my phone nor my tablet to be a "desktop".
        
               | threePointFive wrote:
               | In my circles, personal Windows PCs have gone almost
               | entirely away. Chromebooks are massively popular, but
               | most people do everything on a phone/tablet. In the PC
               | market, gaming is the only thing keeping Windows
               | relevant, and each Proton update shrinks that market
               | segment.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | Sure, lots more people (maybe most? I don't know) use
               | phones/tablets in place of a desktop. I still don't call
               | my phone a desktop.
               | 
               | As for what is keeping Windows relevant, I would bet
               | gaming is just a blip on the radar. Corporations,
               | especially larger ones not in the tech market, like to
               | use Windows for user machines (also applies to
               | governments).
        
           | _Algernon_ wrote:
           | It's bound to happen eventually.
        
           | Multicomp wrote:
           | Sorry, I should have included a /s, my bad!
           | 
           | But yes, i'm not holding my breath.
        
       | hkchad wrote:
       | It wouldn't let me login the other day until I completed my
       | signup for "hello" whatever the f-that is. I had to pull the
       | ethernet cable THEN I could login to windows. I promptly disabled
       | any signup that had "hello" in the description. I have exactly 1
       | windows machine in my house and I am pretty close to making it 0.
       | I was careful to setup that machine before connecting it to the
       | internet so I could create a local account. The hoops people have
       | to jump through just to use something they've paid for is getting
       | pretty outlandish.
        
         | itronitron wrote:
         | It used to be that once the accumulated Windows updates had
         | fully bogged down one of our computers we would uninstall
         | Windows and install Ubuntu. These days we just uninstall
         | Windows on any new system we get.
        
         | slig wrote:
         | Why can't they figure out a paid version for Professionals
         | without any BS? WSL2 works fine, docker, Steam, multiple
         | monitors, etc. Just remove the BS.
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | They have (Enterprise LTSC). You can't have it.
           | 
           | Also, you are now subscribed to _OneDriveFacts_ (tm).
        
             | taspeotis wrote:
             | You can buy a grey market CD key cheaply or subscribe to
             | whichever Microsoft 365 tier gives you Enterprise.
             | 
             | The subscription model is somewhat expensive but if you're
             | able to make it a business expense for Windows + email
             | hosting + the Office apps it's not totally egregious.
        
             | jacooper wrote:
             | The issue with LTSC is it (afaik) sucks fkr gaming, with a
             | lot of missing stuff for dx12 and so on.
        
           | taspeotis wrote:
           | You mean Windows 11 Enterprise?
        
       | 38 wrote:
       | maybe I am on an old version, but I dont get that at all. here is
       | my info:                   OneDrive version: Build
       | 23.214.1015.0001 (64-bit)
       | 
       | if I try to close, I get:                   Are you sure you want
       | to close OneDrive?         If you close OneDrive, files in your
       | OneDrive folder won't sync with your         files online.
       | [Close OneDrive][Cancel]
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | > _Change affected a "small subset" of users and has
         | (thankfully) been reverted._
         | 
         | From the top of the article. The quiz was not a ubiquitous
         | roll-out.
        
       | _Algernon_ wrote:
       | I don't understand why people invite an adversarial entity onto
       | their computer just for the convenience of syncing files.
       | 
       | Unison+ssh+Tailscale (or alternatively Syncthing for a slightly
       | more hands-off approach) accomplishes the same with much less
       | overhead and fewer annoyances.
        
         | jprete wrote:
         | Windows 11 more or less forces OneDrive onto the machine. It
         | takes active work to get rid of it.
        
         | threePointFive wrote:
         | My company switched off of perfectly working SMB shares to
         | OneDrive + SharePoint about a year ago and it has been the
         | singlehanded biggest generator of helpdesk tickets since. I'm
         | trying to get corporate to let me use rclone since I can at
         | least tell it to push/pull a specific file instead of waiting
         | for OneDrive to finish "syncing changes".
        
         | Xiol32 wrote:
         | Syncthing is so good. I wish more people would use it.
         | Onboarding is certainly more complex than just using Onedrive
         | or installing Dropbox, but once it's set up it just stays out
         | of the way and works.
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | >I don't understand why people invite an adversarial entity
         | onto their computer just for the convenience of syncing files.
         | 
         | Most dont invite it. MS sneaks it in the backdoor
         | 
         | I recently bought a new PC and only found out it was syncing my
         | desktop and user files to OneDrive (which I never signed up
         | for) unbeknownst to me when it started having problems.
         | 
         | Then I had to find and wade through a few pathetic prompts to
         | disable it. "are you suuure you want to disable cloud backup?"
         | "Are you suure you want to delete your tax filings and
         | financial docs we copied without asking?"
        
         | yetanotherloss wrote:
         | Unless you go out of your way, it's not invited in, it was
         | already inside. Most people who don't live in o365 don't know
         | or care what OneDrive even is due to how much it sucks.
         | 
         | This is more user hostile tactics to force acceptance of the
         | eventual subscription fees for everything Windows.
        
         | projektfu wrote:
         | I only use OneDrive for the auto save and versioning feature in
         | Excel. Before giving in, I'd frequently come back to a computer
         | that had restarted itself in the night (?) and I'd have to
         | figure out if I needed to preserve the auto save files of
         | things I only had open for reference.
         | 
         | LibreOffice Calc is becoming a better option though. I like the
         | new array functions in Excel but I don't think anyone else I'd
         | share a spreadsheet to understands them. Meanwhile, Excel makes
         | it hard to work with Unicode CSV, no longer has the option to
         | bring up the text import wizard when opening a CSV, silently
         | changes your date formats, etc. For my uses it's become
         | frustrating. Libre has kept working like I expect.
        
         | Jorge1o1 wrote:
         | "For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself
         | quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally
         | with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted
         | filesystem."
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe]
       | 
       | More discussion and updates:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38197715
        
         | _Algernon_ wrote:
         | This is about them pulling the update which is a new
         | development.
        
       | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
       | What's most frustrating to me is how slapdash One Drive is to
       | this day. It is their easiest way to get consumers to start
       | paying for services, yet the product still has embarrassing
       | limitations.
       | 
       | Two that I hit on my corporate machine:
       | 
       | - struggles with too many files. Last I looked, official
       | Microsoft documentation says to not exceed 100k files. Yet, $WORK
       | wants to dump basically every file I touch inside there. My Teams
       | folder alone is ~20k files.
       | 
       | - has a max file path limit which is less than the allowable on
       | NTFS. I use some software with a heavily nested folder structure
       | which One Drive cannot accommodate. A valid Windows file path
       | cannot be backed up by their promoted solution.
        
       | gailees wrote:
       | wtf
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | What happens when you have a company that doesn't understand user
       | experience and have close to a monopoly
        
       | TriangleEdge wrote:
       | Is it possible to delete OneDrive from Windows 11? Apple doesn't
       | let you delete the News app, or Safari from Macs.
       | 
       | I'm hoping the EU does something similar to iPhones and USB-C and
       | slams the hammer down on forced apps on various platforms.
        
         | soroushmo wrote:
         | you can remove OneDrive, but you cant remove Edge.
        
         | nathanaldensr wrote:
         | You want O&O ShutUp10++[1], which is an excellent app for
         | disabling tons of Windows features including OneDrive.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
        
       | tcbawo wrote:
       | The only reason I have Windows is for seamless device driver
       | support. Most things work and don't break with a system update. I
       | don't want to spend a single minute debugging issues on a forum,
       | resorting to OS reinstall due to something being broken, or
       | twiddling with buggy display or wireless settings. I love the
       | Linux desktop. I wish I could pay someone to deliver this
       | experience. But, I don't believe that I can. I wish I could strip
       | the display off Windows and run it as a hypervisor with a nice
       | hardware abstraction layer for another OS.
        
         | the__alchemist wrote:
         | I'm with you. Love the idea of using Linux, but couldn't have
         | stated the drawbacks more elegantly. I look at the OS reinstall
         | more like an insurance company totaled your car vice it being
         | at the bottom of a lake: You can always bring a Linux install
         | back to life through a correct combination of CLI incantations
         | in a fallback console, but at a point, it's easier to do a
         | clean install.
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | I mean, it's worth giving Linux another go. I've had far more
         | problems with Windows machines over the years than I have with
         | Fedora since I started driving it (since 2019).
         | 
         | Same for my parent's and family's computers. Updates have been
         | non-events.
        
           | the__alchemist wrote:
           | I keep telling myself like that. The general fragility hasn't
           | changed much in the past 20 years, but I keep trying.
        
         | BLKNSLVR wrote:
         | I've been using Linux exclusively at home for going on five
         | years now (with the only exception being for Android rooting
         | apps, which is infrequent).
         | 
         | It has been moderately painful, but for a while now I consider
         | it less painful than dealing with Microsoft's MBA-team's multi-
         | year long stream of howlers.
         | 
         | I use Pop!OS as my primary desktop, Debian for servers, and
         | have a separate Ubuntu machine for gaming that very rarely gets
         | used unfortunately. I also think that Pop would do the job for
         | gaming.
        
         | rbut wrote:
         | When building your next PC stick to a motherboard that uses
         | Intel for everything (or as many things as possible).
         | 
         | When selecting a laptop choose one that provides Linux support
         | out of the box, eg Dell XPS 13.
         | 
         | I've done the above and never once had a driver issue on Linux.
        
       | BLKNSLVR wrote:
       | OneDrive syncing, plus whatever "enhancements" Microsoft have
       | made to Windows Explorer, makes my current directory navigation
       | and file management slower than it was 10+ years ago.
       | 
       | I've started working out of a separate directory structure so
       | that OneDrive stays out of the way, and then move the files
       | manually into OneDrive's field-of-view once I'm finished. This is
       | not good practise for backups, but it's good practise for time
       | efficiency and minimal frustration.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-10 23:00 UTC)