[HN Gopher] The Svalbard fibre optic cable connection
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The Svalbard fibre optic cable connection
Author : perihelions
Score : 130 points
Date : 2023-11-10 15:26 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (spacenorway.no)
(TXT) w3m dump (spacenorway.no)
| gottorf wrote:
| I can recommend a visit. It's an easy flight from the Norwegian
| mainland.
| sgt wrote:
| Just very far.
| arcticbull wrote:
| A lot of the coolest places are, in my experience :)
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| It's only a 3 hour flight from Oslo.
| runeks wrote:
| So is Rome
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| Right. Europe is not that big.
| canjobear wrote:
| Seconded. If you're already in Norway the flights are not too
| expensive. If you feel the romance of remote far north
| environments, Svalbard will not disappoint.
| cardiffspaceman wrote:
| How often are the flights to Longyearbyen canceled?
| EliRivers wrote:
| Svalbard has a very weird legal status. It has visa-free right to
| live there and work there. Russia maintains a population there at
| a loss-making coal mine, arguably to keep a persistent claim of
| having a national interest in it. As well as the location being
| ideal for polar satellite comms, with the opening of trade routes
| past Svalbard (with the melting of the Arctic) suddenly a lot of
| nations care a lot more and Norway and NATO allies have picked up
| the pace on exercises in the region. I have reason to believe
| that "what do we do if Russia decides it wants to take Svalbard"
| is regularly considered in military planning. The Svalbard treaty
| is a weird leftover from a different time; a time when Svalbard
| was much less valuable.
|
| Svalbard has a surprisingly large Thai population. I don't know
| about today, but at one point about ten percent of the population
| were Thai citizens.
| killjoywashere wrote:
| > ideal for polar satellite comms
|
| Indeed, Svalbard can be a handy keyword if you want to find
| articles on ionospheric disturbances to satellite comms, like
| GPS.
|
| > surprisingly large Thai population
|
| Hmmm... that sounds suspiciously like fisheries-related
| slavery/indentured servitude. See also: Dutch Harbor.
| wbl wrote:
| I've been to Dutch Harbor but in the summer: sadly only three
| restaurants none of them Thai. But some good sushi and decent
| pizza. And apparently they now have a fiber connection to the
| rest of the world.
| yorwba wrote:
| https://journal-njmr.org/articles/10.33134/njmr.488 says job
| opportunities for migrants from Thailand and the Philippines
| are "limited to the spheres of cleaning, shop assistance,
| construction works, catering (hotels, restaurants and cafes),
| massage studios or the Thai store", so no fishing. But "as
| Norwegian legislation regulating working conditions is only
| partially valid in Svalbard, people without permanent full-
| time jobs often accept conditions that are immoral".
| arcade79 wrote:
| > Hmmm... that sounds suspiciously like fisheries-related
| slavery/indentured servitude. See also: Dutch Harbor.
|
| Well, no. There's two parts to this.
|
| 1. Svalbard is rather nice. While years there doesn't count
| towards Norwegian citizenship, the wages are rather high and
| Norwegian-like. Building up a good personal economy is
| certainly appealing to a lot of people. 2. There's boatloads
| of Norwegians married to Thai women.
|
| However, to get to Svalbard in the first place, you need to
| show that you can sustain yourself without being a burden on
| the local society. There's no health care to speak of there
| (except a regular doctor). There's no social security there.
| You need to be able to fend for yourself and build your own
| thing, or have a work contract.
| cromulent wrote:
| Also the taxes are really low, especially compared to
| Norway. Low income tax, cheap petrol, cheap alcohol.
| lol768 wrote:
| > cheap alcohol
|
| Subject to a rationing card, though!
| haunter wrote:
| >to live there and work there.
|
| The problem is the housing as most of them are provided by
| employers. It's really hard to get a rent just by your own
| https://www.sysselmesteren.no/en/entry-and-residence/
| bookofjoe wrote:
| > I have reason to believe that "what do we do if Russia
| decides it wants to take Svalbard" is regularly considered in
| military planning.
|
| A series called "Occupied" (trailer below) imagines Russia
| invading Norway to control its oil fields. It's excellent, with
| a superb cast.
|
| https://youtu.be/yfqRRHaFyJg?si=fbamSuZM6sM6WuE_
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| Haven't watched the show, but it sounds interesting. How do
| the writers rationalize the Russian invasion of a NATO
| country without kicking off WWIII?
| arcade79 wrote:
| Easy. In the series, Norway decides to invest in Thorium
| nuclear power to get out of oil. We basically decided
| "we'll be environmentally friendly". Suddenly powered by
| nuclear in addition to hydro - and having a hefty petroleum
| fund - we get by without exporting oil.
|
| The EU, and NATO, kinda depends on oil, and kinda asks
| Russia to invade. ;)
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Excellent summary.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| I've wondered about that, too. Probably came at the wrong
| time, with the Crimean thing, and so on. IIRC Russia even
| protested officially, via diplomatic channels, whatnot,
| while the series aired.
|
| But yeah, it's an OK show. Not mindblowing, but OK to
| watch.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| You are a strict grader! If you have a minute, suggest
| shows/movies you consider "mindblowing." Thanks!
| FpUser wrote:
| I see nothing strict in here. It is an ok show, I watched
| it. "Mindblowing" would be something like "breaking bad"
| but this is of course to my taste. Others are different.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| By "strict" I meant nothing negative; rather, I meant
| that I thought "Occupied" was mindblowing, so I naturally
| would like suggestions from someone who thinks it is
| "ok."
|
| The recommendations of others oftimes guide our choices
| of what to watch. "Breaking Bad" = "Mindblowing?" OK. How
| about a few more of that caliber. Thanks!
| lxgr wrote:
| Not GP but I also find it somewhat hard to like a TV
| show, so hopefully that qualifies me :)
|
| The last one that blew my mind was "Severance", and
| before that "Devs". Both have a very different
| mood/aesthetic than Breaking Bad, though.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| If you liked "Devs" a lot, I believe you will like "Halt
| and Catch Fire."
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| I'm not IMDB.
|
| Seriously, it's a matter of taste, which things/themes
| are interesting to you, and how they have been put into
| the product which 'occupies' your screen ;->
|
| While Okkupert's technical production values were
| excellent, the pilot and first few parts were interesting
| because of the novelty of the EU sending the Russians to
| occupy arrogant Norway to ensure continuing streams of
| oil and gas, the rest wasn't IMO. Some some police
| procedural, some secret agent, polit crime thrill thing
| with some personal/family trouble under said occupation
| at length. Yawn.
|
| _What 's blowing my mind?_ Not much TBH. I'm rather
| bored and jaded by most of it.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Fair enough.
| spitfire wrote:
| I'll bite.
|
| Two masterpieces with Alec Guinness - Obe Wan Kenobi.
|
| Tinker tailor soldier spy. Smileys people.
|
| Forensic accountancy with violence W/ Roy Marsden
|
| The Sandbaggers
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Based on your suggestion of the two spy thrillers, both
| of which I loved, I'm gonna watch "The Sandbaggers,"
| which I'd never heard of till you mentioned it.
|
| One more reason HN rules.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| What's the US's take on it? We don't import much oil from
| Norway, and we're not historically big supporters of
| Russian aggression.
|
| Let me guess -- Russia successfully lays the groundwork
| by co-opting one of the two major US political parties?
| pests wrote:
| Sounds like it was that Norway stopped exporting oil
| which western nations depended on and then asked Russia
| to invade Norway to get it going again.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| Point being, the US wouldn't care about the oil. We don't
| import much if any oil from Norway.
|
| Yes, the loss of Norwegian exports would have had the
| effect of raising oil prices globally. But not by enough
| to make the US stand by while Russia starts mowing down
| NATO countries. That would be considered a Big Deal over
| here, even in light of pro-Russian GOP sentiment.
| ssnistfajen wrote:
| It depicts a fictionalized story. The premise doesn't
| need to be 100% fleshed out in terms of geopolitical
| realities.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| Yeah, but there's such a thing as suspension of
| disbelief.
|
| The idea that we'd chill out while Russia invades
| Norway... I mean, you _could_ come up with a way to make
| that sound plausible, but it would almost have to be the
| central theme of the whole show.
| at0mic22 wrote:
| This is so funny. Rosatom operates at least 35 nuclear
| reactors only in Russia, whilst Norway operates zero
| production reactors of any kind.
| conradev wrote:
| Yeah. Norway has insane hydroelectric resources thanks to
| the glaciers (the fjords), so the irony is that they
| don't even use oil to power the country.
| wintogreen74 wrote:
| >> they don't even use oil to power the country
|
| Well, maybe not in terms of energy, but it definitely
| "powers" the country in the sense that's where the money
| comes from.
| at0mic22 wrote:
| And again, tell that to Russians, who operate the third
| in the world by energy production dam, Sayano-
| Shushenskaya.
| Orexis-Vexatii wrote:
| Part of the premise is that Norway shuts off oil
| production. Everyone looks the other way when Russia
| invades because they'll keep suppyling oil.
| euroderf wrote:
| Yup, the EU is aware and complicit.
| pests wrote:
| Any idea how to watch that as an American?
| leesalminen wrote:
| It was on Netflix at one point...that's where I saw it at
| least. Great show, highly recommend.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| Piracy.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| https://tv.apple.com/us/show/occupied/umc.cmc.2xu539nv98qsk
| 4...
| ssnistfajen wrote:
| It's available on Netflix with English subtitles.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| https://www.netflix.com/title/80092654
| billiam wrote:
| Russia has put a lot of effort into developing the ability to
| cut and disrupt as well as intercept undersea cables, so the
| increased dependence on Svalbard for satellite traffic is a
| control point all the interested countries should be looking
| at. They have already demonstrated that they are willing to
| hold world commerce at ransom, so even as they recede as a
| naval power they are upping their asymmetric capabilities on
| the world's oceans.
| paganel wrote:
| How is Russia holding "world commerce at ransom" without
| being a naval power country? Just by sheer will alone?
| WanderPanda wrote:
| By asymmetric capabilities I guess
| virgulino wrote:
| _" Russia stages military-style propaganda parade on Norway's
| Svalbard archipelago - More than 50 vehicles, a helicopter and
| snowmobiles driven by men in military-like uniforms on the 9th
| of May paraded down the main street of Barentsburg."_ May 2023
|
| Truly terrifying images:
|
| https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2023/05/russia-st...
| dheera wrote:
| I visited Svalbard in the dead of winter, it was a very surreal
| experience, not seeing any sunlight at all for a whole week. I
| was quite astounded by how "normal" life was there in the one
| town, and the contrast of the rawness of nature outside the
| town. In any direction away from the town there is _nothing_ --
| no roads, no cell reception, no shelters, just lots and lots of
| snow and hungry polar bears (hence you need someone with a
| rifle in your group if you leave the town at all).
| ed_balls wrote:
| Barents Sea between Norway and Svalbard is quite shallow. It
| makes monitoring submarines much easier.
| korhojoa wrote:
| Another cool thing about this is that if you're at any of the
| universities that use this connection, they have a network
| monitoring tool available internally that shows the link
| utilization for the connection (uninett's nav). It's pretty cool
| to see the variation. (spotted this myself during an extended
| stay on the lofoten islands)
|
| Seems like a really neat place to visit, hope to be able to go
| one day.
| e12e wrote:
| Nav is foss:
|
| https://nav.uninett.no/
|
| And some data on Uninett is open, eg:
|
| https://stats.uninett.no/stat-q/load-map/uninett,,traffic,pe...
|
| https://stats.uninett.no/kartg/last/uninett/norge/geo/nuh
| bjornasm wrote:
| If you are at a university I highly recommend trying to take a
| subject on UNIS.
| nocarrier wrote:
| "During the period 2018-20, Space Norway carried out significant
| security related upgrades to the fibre connection."
|
| Sounds like someone was tapping cables with submarines?
| fmajid wrote:
| Only the USS Jimmy Carter has that capability, AFAIK.
|
| Likely more concerned with sabotage, as happened to the
| Finland-Estonia fiber can pipeline link recently.
| iSnow wrote:
| I guess they had a sense of foreboding, as in 2022, a Russian
| fish trawler damaged that cable link:
| https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43828/undersea-cable-c...
| Erwin wrote:
| Svalbard is larger than I thought, but not as large as the
| projection tricks you to: it's 1/6th the area of Norway shown
| below. On thetruesize.com you can drag Svalbard around and
| compare it to other countries, it's roughly the size of all of
| Ireland.
| elamje wrote:
| I've gone to Svalbard a few times and spent a lot of time in
| Norway. It's a really interesting place.
|
| GitHub has the Arctic Code Vault there. The Global Seed Vault is
| there. Lots of satellites and climate change research happen
| there. The local deer (reindeer) population evolved without
| natural predators there, so they aren't scared of people or cars
| like animals in other parts of the world. It's got pretty much
| the most Northern <insert anything> in the world, such as the
| northern most Lenin statue.
|
| I wrote a bit about it and the Russian influence still there on
| Twitter a while back.
| https://twitter.com/elamje/status/1677013676635611146
| jaktet wrote:
| Is there another link? I just see four pictures but no text,
| I'd love to read what you wrote.
| iSnow wrote:
| The whole thread:
| https://nitter.net/elamje/status/1677013676635611146
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