[HN Gopher] Microsoft won't let you close OneDrive on Windows un...
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Microsoft won't let you close OneDrive on Windows until you explain
yourself
Author : cprecioso
Score : 115 points
Date : 2023-11-08 21:59 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| pxeger1 wrote:
| I've noticed the Office and OneDrive web apps now make it subtly
| harder to download your files. All part of their lockin strategy
| I suppose.
| woleium wrote:
| Most first year university courses have to teach students how
| to use files and folders, it's just not that well known anymore
| codeful wrote:
| I am speculating that only a fraction of users explicitly shut
| down a program that appears beasides the clock. Is it truly worth
| irritating that segment of users? I am one of those who
| occasionally turns off OneDrive. However, the idea of starting to
| look for alternatives has only just struck me. I'm really tired
| of waves of popups everywhere.
| Justsignedup wrote:
| Every 3 months MS "updates" windows by prompting me to enable
| edge, buy/try office, enable one drive, etc. And every button
| for no is in a different location.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| Today I had the Bing Search bar appear on the desktop,
| without Edge ever having been run (new 10 pro install).
| Previously it always appeared after the initial Edge launch +
| non-consensual Edge setup ordeal.
| uxp wrote:
| My mother in law works for a company that allows her to work
| from home from a personal device running Chrome.
|
| Several times a year I get a phone call at 6:30AM from her
| asking to quickly drive to her house before her shift starts
| at 7 to fix her computer, because "something happened" or "I
| was hacked". Every time, it's been an update which has reset
| her default apps so email opens in the newish Mail app and
| not Outlook or Gmail-in-Chrome, or changes the browser to
| Edge from Chrome. I'm not a systems administrator, so I
| havent a clue on what the magical incantations of registry
| paths and values should be which prevent this despite trying.
|
| Obviously if this was a domain managed asset at a company,
| someone would know how to prevent this. As a "home device",
| it feels like you're automatically enrolled in the "Global
| Microsoft domain", and subject to the whims of a product
| manager making IT decisions.
| theknocker wrote:
| One monopoly continues to single-handedly shit on personal
| computing for the whole species.
| jprd wrote:
| I'd wager that all tech monopolies do this
| Solim wrote:
| Same as restarting a server. It is something that should be
| running all the time so turning it off points to something not
| working, and asking for a valid reason makes sense.
| JohnFen wrote:
| > asking for a valid reason makes sense.
|
| Only if you're trying to annoy your users as much as possible.
| Especially for something like a server, where presumably if the
| operator thinks Microsoft's help is required, they'll ask for
| it.
| McAtNite wrote:
| This line of thinking only makes sense if you actively use
| OneDrive. If you don't and have no interest in using it why
| leave it running? It's bad enough that they automatically
| bundle it into Windows, but intrusively forcing a user to
| explain why they are using their own hardware in a certain way
| is silly.
|
| I'm going to guess that the intersection of people who actively
| close unneeded background programs, and the users who are
| willing to explore alternatives overlaps quite a bit. This
| seems like a really shortsighted decision on Microsoft's part.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Is it even possible to run Windows anymore without a
| Microsoft account?
|
| If you only have a local account, OneDrive has nothing to
| sync to, right?
| McAtNite wrote:
| I've seen some guides in arduous ways to get around the
| Microsoft Account requirement, but I can't say from
| experience. I abandoned Windows when the hardware
| requirements meant I couldn't upgrade my personal computer
| to Win11.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > Is it even possible to run Windows anymore without a
| Microsoft account?
|
| Sure. On Pro you choose Organization/Domain setup and
| create the local account. Home is harder and the process
| keeps shifting. There are guides.
|
| > If you only have a local account, OneDrive has nothing to
| sync to, right?
|
| Mostly correct except if you have a local account and an MS
| login for Store/Office/etc. It isn't syncing automatically
| (so far) but could be triggered accidentally.
|
| Another first today. I saw a dot next to my username
| (Start->username) that was naggy notification to MS Account
| myself.
| unaindz wrote:
| Either install windows without being connected to the
| internet or log in using username: test pass: fuckmicrosoft
| It will fail to log in and offer to create a local account.
| PD: that password is optional, any password will do, but
| over time I noticed it is good for mental health.
| anothernewdude wrote:
| Nonsense. Windows Server is an OS that can be used for
| anything.
|
| Besides, they're the only people making an OS that regularly
| needs to be restarted anyway.
| vel0city wrote:
| > Hopefully, Microsoft won't start injecting a poll at shutdown
| demanding to know why I'm turning my PC off for the day.
|
| Clearly they've never used Windows Server.
| baal80spam wrote:
| Oh god, I remember...
| laxd wrote:
| That's event tracking for system logs. Serious bizness feature.
| You could turn it of in group policy.
| HelixEndeavor wrote:
| This. Important distinction between "the company wants to
| know everything that happens to the server" and "Microsoft
| wants to know why you don't want their bloated adware running
| 24/7"
| Someone1234 wrote:
| That prompt has saved me from an accidental shutdown more times
| than I'd care to admit. In some cases we didn't have offline
| management/VM console to trivially turn it back on.
| breadwinner wrote:
| Strange that data corruption [1] is not offered as one of the
| options :)
|
| [1] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-
| us/msoffice/forum/all/onedr...
| projektfu wrote:
| Wow.... Also love the typical clueless response from the forum
| agent.
| DaiPlusPlus wrote:
| I haven't even clicked the link above yet, but I just know
| it's a green checkmarked Accepted answer post from a v-dash
| MSFT contractor, asking the OP to run `sfc /scannow`, and
| somehow "2+ people found this post helpful", while below it
| is a collapsed post with "2,536+ people found this post
| helpful" votes criticising the state of the MS Answers
| community.
|
| ...right?
|
| UPDATE: I read the thread, and was even more disappointed:
| none of the official responses even acknowledged the entirety
| of the problem and callously disregarded important points
| like OneDrive for Business vs. Personal, the hard evidence of
| corruption, and MS' twisted messaging on backups for
| OneDrive...
| tux3 wrote:
| The newer versions of Windows seem to care less and less about
| what the user prefers.
|
| This is emblematic in the message boxes that offer a choice
| between Yes and Not Now/Maybe Later. It takes real effort to make
| Windows accept a No.
| Sharlin wrote:
| Windows 7 (Pro/Ultimate) will probably remain the least bad
| Windows ever released. Shame.
| quantified wrote:
| When it's as good as it can be, any change makes it worse.
| transcriptase wrote:
| Precisely why I'm on a Windows 10 install that hasn't been
| updated in nearly 2 years.
|
| "yes but those updates contain security patches!"
|
| If three letter agencies or foreign state sponsored hackers
| want my Baldur's Gate 3 save files that bad, they can have
| them.
|
| Otherwise I'm not installing Linkin_Park_Numb.mp3.exe or
| raw dogging Russian URLs in my spam folder so it's tough to
| care.
|
| Bitdefender tells me when something tries to send a packet
| or if a exe changes.
| pxmpxm wrote:
| All the CVE bros just fainted reading this
| hypeatei wrote:
| I miss Windows 7 so much. Apart from the slightly dated,
| although not bad UI, it would hold up just fine today if they
| didn't abandon it.
|
| No junkware pre-installed, consistent settings interfaces
| (not three ways to configure a setting), and no telemetry or
| dark patterns.
| RajT88 wrote:
| With a bit of work to nerf some of the telemetry and dumb
| stuff, I liked 10 as much as 7. I won't say you're wrong.
|
| Windows 10: From my Cold, Dead Hands.
| JohnFen wrote:
| Win 7 is the only version of Windows that I think is actually
| good.
| bobmaxup wrote:
| They are just forcing you to provide reasons for you not
| wanting to use their software, so they can change it in a way
| that makes you want to use it.
|
| If that doesn't work, maybe they will use more hostile methods
| of coercion. For example, they could make it a service that
| restarts every 5 minutes after you kill it. They could also
| prevent you from disabling the service.
| jm4 wrote:
| The irony is that they do care about what the user prefers. All
| this telemetry and the surveys are to better understand user
| habits and preferences so they can make their software better.
| Unfortunately, they are so out of touch and ignorant that the
| methods they use are the exact bullshit users don't want.
| RajT88 wrote:
| You're being way more charitable than MSFT deserves here. And
| I'm usually one of those guys defending MSFT on HN.
| thedaly wrote:
| "Better" is subjective and not the term I would use in this
| context.
| ImaCake wrote:
| I would expect that some people are genuinely working really
| hard on making the UX better. But there are equally powerful
| forces of people who see how they can enrich themselves by
| actively making the UX worse. It is difficult to
| underestimate the effectiveness of a sociopathic manager who
| sees a path to making money at everyone's expense.
| bozhark wrote:
| All the people they should be tracking block it
| enlyth wrote:
| They are going to remove Windows Calendar in 2024 and force
| replace it with Outlook. Out of curiosity I clicked the opt in
| "preview" for this change and it opens Outlook, which I have
| never used, and wouldn't let me do anything unless I "linked"
| my Gmail address. Just so I could open a calendar.
|
| So I closed it and when I need to look at the calendar now, I
| use my Macbook instead.
|
| It's so infuriating how Windows is turning into a total
| shitshow lately.
| whelp_24 wrote:
| i didn't realize they were getting rid of the calendar too. I
| wonder what is making all this anticonsumer stuff happen at
| once
| troad wrote:
| I'm no dogmatic, soapbox-spewin' free software acolyte, but at
| this point using Windows just feels somehow degrading. It's
| like a bad night in Vegas. Like being trapped inside the Daily
| Mail.
|
| Thank God for all of you free software types, or I'd have
| nothing to boot instead!
| isk517 wrote:
| I built a new computer a few months back and made the mistake
| of buying Windows 11. The amount of effort it took to get to
| work the way I want made me really feel like I could have
| just spent the same energy on a Linux operating system. Thank
| God for Valve and all of the effort they are putting into
| making Linux gaming viable.
| rurp wrote:
| No kidding. I have plenty of complaints about Mac and Linux,
| but JFC Microsoft! At this point I can't imagine I'll ever
| buy another windows machine. These days it's like Microsoft
| is trying as hard as they can to insult and drive away users.
| projektfu wrote:
| I wish I could understand why product managers come up with these
| ideas and developers implement them. Every release, Microsoft
| improves Windows in one way (like WSL) and then adds two reasons
| why it should be uninstalled completely. I use OneDrive on
| certain computers in my business. In others, it's inappropriate.
| On all my business computers, Xbox, Candy Crush, MSN etc. are
| inappropriate. And Edge was great for a while until it became the
| preferred route to feed me clickbait and more annoying pop-up
| ads. Why chase your users away?
| nullindividual wrote:
| > I wish I could understand why product managers come up with
| these ideas and developers implement them.
|
| To become Senior Product Managers. You can't advance your
| career without putting your mark on the product.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Isn't that supposed to be a _positive_ mark?
|
| "Yeah, he ruined the product, let's promote him to Senior
| Product Manager" is not a thing that people say very often.
| projektfu wrote:
| I get it, there's usually another metric that's at fault.
| Increasing Edge browser use by underhanded techniques on
| every install is easier than convincing users to install
| it. Boosting MSN hits by having a hundred million computers
| constantly downloading content is easier than making
| content people share. But the net result is going to be
| more of us opting out. It's a real Yahoo approach.
| waynesonfire wrote:
| The next guy that reverts the feature gets the promotion.
| And so the wheel turns.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| But this person gets to give a presentation to leadership
| about the reasons users disable OneDrive and propose am
| ambitious plan to improve it. Users filling up their
| OneDrive means more money while probably not only a tiny
| minority will move away from Windows because of stuff like
| this. The cost of moving to a new OS you aren't used to is
| huge for most users.
| Zircom wrote:
| My integrity in regards to my job goes as far as not doing
| things that are illegal or straight up immoral, but other than
| that'll do pretty much whatever my boss wants me to. Something
| that's annoying but relatively harmless like this I wouldn't
| even bat an eye at. It's a pretty rough job market out there at
| the moment and I'm not looking to make any waves or get on
| anybody's radar by being difficult.
| projektfu wrote:
| Fair enough, but this was going on during the good times,
| too.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I've been trying to get rid of OneDrive for months now, but I
| haven't been successful. It's yet another thing that makes me
| really hate Microsoft products.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| What happens when you go thru the uninstall process?
|
| I've uninstalled OD on 100+ systems. It's always followed the
| pattern of other crapware; it goes away until the next major
| update.
| JohnFen wrote:
| It's been a while since I gave up on it, so I don't remember
| clearly. But I think it gets reinstalled within a couple of
| days. It's probably because of some idiotic policy my
| employer implements, now that I think of it.
|
| It's still incredibly annoying, though. It's not something
| that brings benefit to me, so it's not something I ever use.
| Nathanba wrote:
| I've uninstalled the xbox uwp apps and various built in apps
| many times and they keep coming back, it is very annoying.
| Especially the xbox one because one time their xbox game bar
| thing popped up during a meeting while I was remote desktop
| sharing and I never play any games on that machine but hey,
| it showed up randomly anyway.
| TalEs wrote:
| Look into Windows debloating tools. I use Atlas OS which
| debloat Windows after a fresh install. There is also XToolBox,
| Chris Titus's Windows Utility, Win10ShutUp and many more, that
| let you pick and choose what to remove. It's great for privacy
| and also gets rid of Microsoft's annoying "features".
| bj-rn wrote:
| Use IoT Enterprise LTSC. Comes without the bloat by default.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I have to use what my employer says. I don't use anything
| Microsoft on my personal machines at all, so it's not an
| issue on machines I have control over.
| korse wrote:
| YEPP!
| jonathankoren wrote:
| This is just as annoying as Docker constantly asking me to rate
| it.
|
| This trend is just tacky.
| anothernewdude wrote:
| Something asks me to rate them, they get a 0
| pseudo0 wrote:
| Or even worse the pattern of: "Are you enjoying <product>?"
|
| If yes: - prompted to submit 5 star review
|
| If no: - prompted to submit an internal
| feedback form
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| I really hate how needy apps are nowadays: "do you like me? Do
| you? Did you install the mobile app?"
|
| Do your job and shut up; you're a program.
| fidotron wrote:
| Disappointed it doesn't show you a photo of the Product Manager
| responsible for OneDrive and make you answer them personally,
| like Jira went through a phase of doing. A totally missed
| opportunity.
|
| It should be the law that PMs have their faces on such things to
| promote the same trust we feel towards real estate agents.
| Privacy policy when signing up? The PM should be there, being
| responsible.
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| Wouldn't it be a lawyer typically responsible for the privacy
| policy?
| dessimus wrote:
| They should include a family photo and explain how the PM's
| kid(s) might not eat because of your selfish decisions, maybe
| include Sarah McLachlan doing a voiceover, too.
| ShamelessC wrote:
| And the PM's address and personal cell number too! Make
| employees be highly available for any and all death threats.
| jfim wrote:
| Oh man, that was also an annoying pop-up at the end of
| HackerRank interviews, with a picture of the PM asking to rate
| the experience after each interview.
|
| 1 star each time just to tank their metrics.
| nerdjon wrote:
| My decision to just stick with Windows 10 LTS version for gaming
| is reinforced as a good decision on a fairly regular basis at
| this point.
|
| My partner was on Windows 10 and was running into some issues
| with OneDrive. Apparently it just moved the entire user directory
| (or something like that) to OneDrive and most of his files were
| not local. We tried to disable OneDrive and his Desktop just
| disappeared.
|
| We finally just got rid of it, but it was a pain and I don't
| think he ever turned it on. At least not purposefully.
|
| Also please don't say to just use Proton and SteamOS for gaming.
| I have had enough issues with games not working under proton
| (Particularly if not from Steam) or updates breaking games on my
| Steam Deck that I also use Windows LTS on my Steam Deck most of
| the time now.
|
| Edit: I remember what the problem was. he ran out of space. So
| the service that he didn't sign up for (at least purposefully)
| that synced his entire home directory stopped syncing because he
| ran out of space on it, and his files are basically being held
| hostage by OneDrive.
| aligray wrote:
| This has happened to me and it's causing me a lot of headaches.
| Haven't found a solution yet as I've not had the energy to
| figure it out.
| nerdjon wrote:
| I wish I could remember exactly what I found to help you.
|
| But if I remember correctly I found a script to remove
| OneDrive that would first download all of the files locally.
| HelixEndeavor wrote:
| This sounds nightmarish. One of many reasons I refuse to
| sign into my Outlook account on Windows, I just know
| they'll use the excuse of "integration" to completely fuck
| up my computer with cloud bullshit. I want what's on my
| computer to stay on my computer, dammit.
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| Yeah, Windows tries to constantly trick you into using a
| Microsoft account and storing your Desktop, Documents, etc in
| OneDrive online. The reason is simple: money. When you
| inevitably run out of space, you can't save anything else. And
| you can no longer use your linked Hotmail account. I had to
| explain to my Dad's 80+ year old neighbor why she couldn't
| email photos with her kids and then try and fix the messed up
| Windows settings to get her back working again. This type of
| behavior in software is honestly evil.
| nerdjon wrote:
| It is interesting because in many ways Apple does the same
| thing with Mac. They push iCloud fairly heavily.
|
| But it feels like when you need to disable it or whatever
| it's not jumping through hoops. If I want to disable iCloud
| Drive on my Mac, as long as I wasn't working out of iCloud
| Drive things just keep working as expected.
| theropost wrote:
| This should simply be illegal. Fraud.
| daedalus_j wrote:
| Just as a counterpoint, the same games run _better_ for me on
| the Linux /proton side of the same hardware. Haven't had any
| real issues with non-steam games either on my Linux desktop or
| my steam deck.
|
| It's interesting to note how different the experience of
| different users is. Makes me curious what part of the stack is
| causing such massively divergent outcomes. Graphics driver?
| Window manager? Distro defaults?
|
| Tough issue to debug. I hope someone over at Valve is studying
| it so the Linux experience can become better for more people.
| nerdjon wrote:
| So my only real experience with linux gaming is with SteamOS
| and Proton.
|
| A big example of a game that I had to jump through hoops (and
| just gave up and switched to Windows) was Kingdom Hearts.
| FF14 (not through Steam) was another example of a game that I
| got to work fairly well, but the steps to get it working was
| weird and meant I lost the syncing the real launcher had.
|
| However I do want to mention that I actually did some
| comparisons, and at least on my steam deck I got better
| battery life and performance on games running on Windows 10
| LTS vs the same games running on SteamOS.
|
| I didn't do extensive testing, but enough to make the choice
| fairly easy and remove any compatibility issues.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Additionally, LTSC is a lifeline that was designed to
| eventually run-out. The individuals that rely on it are in
| for a rude awakening when the LTS period expires. Microsoft
| has no interest in catering to you; they want enterprise
| users on metered B2B solutions, and individuals on their ad-
| ridden "Home" OS. If you feel insulted, the best they'll
| offer you is the option to buy a "Pro" license and feel even
| worse about yourself.
|
| If it works, it works. But LTSC users are like that meme of
| the smug guy on a plank, aiming at the dude who's keeping
| them from falling off a cliff.
| nerdjon wrote:
| I don't understand why you are making such a critical
| reply. LTS versions of operating systems have been a
| standard thing for years. Even some Linux distros do it
| (did? do they still).
|
| Also a simple google search would have shown otherwise.
| https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-
| blog/w... Windows 11 LTSC was announced for next year.
|
| Given how Windows 10 LSTC differed strongly from all of the
| crap they added to normal 10, right now I am leaning
| towards that Windows 11 will likely follow a similar cut
| down version of Windows without all of the crap.
|
| LTSC isn't going away, at least not right now. When it does
| then we can talk about Linux again but right now there is a
| perfectly valid option without any compatibility issues.
| low_tech_punk wrote:
| Now they must add another option: "I quit OneDrive because of
| this dialog!"
| gumballindie wrote:
| Installing Linux distros these days is trivial, and i encourage
| anyone with a usb stick laying around to give them a try.
| supertrope wrote:
| Cortana and Candy Crush is why I use switched to Ubuntu on
| every PC except one. That one autostarts Steam.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| To +Windows -Cortana reg add
| HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Search /v
| BingSearchEnabled /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f reg add
| HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Search /v
| CortanaConsent /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
| surgical_fire wrote:
| I switched fully to Mint almost a year ago, and I second this.
|
| Using Linux nowadays is nothing like trying to use Linux 2
| decades ago. Many common distros are easy to use and have
| intuitive, familiar interfaces. I haven't missed Windows a
| single time since making the switch.
| wave100 wrote:
| I've managed to avoid the Windows 11 "upgrade" so far by
| disabling my motherboard's TPM in its BIOS menu. Not sure what
| I'll do in 2025 when Windows 10 hits EOL.
| baal80spam wrote:
| I suggest (if you really want/need to use Windows) to just use
| LTSC version.
| DoctorDabadedoo wrote:
| LTSC in a consumer machine is for sure pirated, no? Not sure
| that is better than just sticking to windows 10 post EOL.
| HelixEndeavor wrote:
| "pirated" yes but you can often source the install images
| direct from Microsoft and then use open source tools to
| crack the activation systems. Microsoft has kind of stopped
| policing piracy at the individual user level, you can even
| download Windows cracking tools off GitHub, a platform that
| Microsoft owns. As long as you're using their software it
| makes them happy. And LTSC is worth it to have a barebones
| no-bullshit Windows installation.
| isk517 wrote:
| I was able to get Windows 11 to a decent state by using 3rd
| party programs, so there is that option. Not holding much hope
| that the next version of Windows will permit users to even have
| that option.
| kylec wrote:
| And Microsoft wonders why I don't want to install Windows 11...
| blibble wrote:
| prediction: next version will also make you watch an ad before
| being allowed to exit
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| Don't forget the big flashing "Backup" button that shows on
| Windows 11 23H2 prompting you to upload your files to OneDrive. I
| ditched OneDrive due to all of these annoyances.
| kettlecorn wrote:
| Bad taste is irreparably laced through Microsoft's culture. It's
| why I've stopped using their products.
|
| When I worked there the job of PMs, and many managers, seemed to
| be to figure out how to appear polite while attempting to distort
| common sense to get their metrics pumped up.
| Tommstein wrote:
| Microsoft has been a known quantity for a long time. At this
| point, anyone willingly subjecting themselves to their bullshit
| (as opposed to having it forced on them by work) has only
| themselves to blame.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > At this point, anyone willingly subjecting themselves to
| their bullcrap (as opposed to having it forced on them by work)
| has only themselves to blame.
|
| Yeah. That and their employers, customer base, relatives, biz
| associates....
| Tommstein wrote:
| > Yeah. That and their employers, customer base, relatives,
| biz associates....
|
| You found a wealth of ways to repeat the word "work."
| HelixEndeavor wrote:
| So is there a regedit you can do to disable OneDrive completely
| or does Microsoft worm their way around that as well.
|
| Honestly the only thing keeping me from updating from Windows 10
| to Windows 11 is that the ads and forced behaviors are an order
| of magnitude greater in their shittiness.
| data_monkey wrote:
| The buzzword bingo management "Deliver on a integrated
| streamlined customer experience with inline analytics to deliver
| sharedholder value" culture strikes again.
| zwieback wrote:
| The sad thing is that Windows can be lovely in the Enterprise, at
| least where I work it's virtually friction-free as everything is
| preconfigured and no annoying popus. For home use: different
| story.
|
| It feels like part of the whole trend of constant polling and
| setting tips at 18-30%.
| theropost wrote:
| Time to regulate OS releases. Prove your new version is actually
| an upgrade, and increase user productivity first - not just
| forcing them into your regulatory captured product suite.
| pjs_ wrote:
| So bad ass. Love OneDrive. The GG Allin of business software.
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