[HN Gopher] How Bad Rails Conventions Got Me a Weekend Stay with...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How Bad Rails Conventions Got Me a Weekend Stay with the CEO of
       Airbnb
        
       Author : steventey
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2023-11-08 20:50 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.josephofiowa.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.josephofiowa.com)
        
       | davetron5000 wrote:
       | To save anyone a click, the author figured that AirBnB's urls had
       | monotonically increasing numeric ids, which is the Rails default,
       | and figured out that the AirBnB CEO's id was 3, and got the
       | direct link before it was shared publicly.
        
         | ericol wrote:
         | Obviously I didn't RTFA, but without this comment I wouldn't
         | had understood what that title was about. Thanks. (English is
         | funny)
        
       | wilg wrote:
       | This article doesn't make good on its claim to explain why this
       | "Rails convention" is bad. It's probably actually good. I
       | wouldn't have clicked on it otherwise. Rude, IMO.
        
         | gaogao wrote:
         | It's pretty common outside of rails too, like
         | https://facebook.com/4
         | 
         | Some main weaknesses, if I recall correctly, is that's
         | incremental ids make scraping pretty easy, or guessing content
         | outside of a URL given explicitly by the service (like here).
        
           | david_allison wrote:
           | They also leak metrics (#of registered users)
        
           | simlevesque wrote:
           | Also, competitors can analyze your growth more easily.
        
           | cartothemax wrote:
           | Yep, you're correct. Panera had an issue where folks could
           | scrap every user profile due to sequential profile ids. The
           | bigger part of the exploit was they just openly exposed user
           | data but making the profiles ids sequential made it really
           | easy to scrap
           | 
           | https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/04/panerabread-com-leaks-
           | mi...
        
         | WendyTheWillow wrote:
         | It's "good" if you're enumerating a potential target!
         | 
         | Otherwise, you typically either want to make your URLs
         | intuitively discoverable or not discoverable at all. An
         | incrementing ID like this is neither, so it sits in a weird
         | middle ground that probably satisfies nobody (except those
         | trying to get things done who don't care, I guess).
        
           | thrownblown wrote:
           | Incrementing a URL can (and has) get you prison time.
           | 
           | https://www.wired.com/2012/11/att-hacker-found-guilty/
        
             | WendyTheWillow wrote:
             | The incrementing itself wasn't the issue! It's all the
             | other stuff around their scraping and apparently their
             | provable desire to harm AT&T that got them convicted.
        
             | ric2b wrote:
             | In the same way that squeezing on a hunk of metal that some
             | may call a "trigger" can get you convicted for murder.
        
       | ulizzle wrote:
       | There's no engineering analysis in this post, so those of us who
       | were looking for that, let me save you the click
       | 
       | Be born to the right people and toe the party line. That's what
       | Brian's story will show you. But that's basically a cliche right
       | now so I doubt you're in any way surprised
        
       | xkcd1963 wrote:
       | I'll be damned, billionaires are normal people! (or at least they
       | want us to believe it)
        
       | polishdude20 wrote:
       | "If Brian Chesky, cofounder and CEO at Airbnb, listened to his
       | mom, Airbnb wouldn't exist today. Or at least according to her:
       | "I told him it's a bad idea. I didn't think it was going to work,
       | and I didn't really understand it. If he listened to me, Airbnb
       | wouldn't be here now.""
       | 
       | I mean, in the end, isn't it turning out to be a bad idea?
       | Removing homes from the rental market, increasing housing prices.
       | Encouraging more treatment of housing as an investment.
       | 
       | Sometimes, Brian, your mom is right.
        
         | filoleg wrote:
         | > isn't it turning out to be a bad idea?
         | 
         | Not for Brian, no.
         | 
         | Even if Airbnb ceases to exist tomorrow, I am fairly certain
         | that Brian is gonna be in a better spot than he would have been
         | in if he listened to his mom.
        
           | polishdude20 wrote:
           | Oh yeah he will be of course. It's the rest of the world that
           | won't be.
        
         | jtriangle wrote:
         | I mean, the guy has a net worth of ~$9 Billion, so, I think
         | it's worked out pretty well for him, you know, being squarely
         | in the tres commas club and all.
         | 
         | And we can say good idea/bad idea all you'd like, that's just
         | opinion at the end of the day, the truth is there was a market
         | for his idea, a huge one, and the market isn't mound by any
         | sort of moral or ethical or even logical means, so applying
         | those things in order to support a notion of 'good' or 'bad'
         | isn't going to yield truth by any measure.
         | 
         | I think what you're seeing, mostly, with short term rentals, is
         | a lack of housing inventory being created. We've got plenty of
         | space to build, but, for a litany of reasons, it's not being
         | built, and in a general sense, the solution to this problem is
         | to solve those problems that're in the way of adding inventory.
        
         | ch4s3 wrote:
         | AirBnB is not the cause of housing scarcity, the under building
         | of Hotels to meet short term stay demand, or the economic
         | conditions that facilitate a lot of travel. If it weren't for
         | AirBnB other players in the short term rental business would
         | likely ave moved into the same niche.
        
           | thimkerbell wrote:
           | And the price is probably a really good signal of unmet
           | housing demand, which has (probably) caused a lot more units
           | to be built than would have otherwise.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | > Sometimes, Brian, your mom is right.
         | 
         | I'm sure Brian's mom is happy she was wrong and doesn't share
         | your negative assessment.
         | 
         | > Removing homes from the rental market, increasing housing
         | prices. Encouraging more treatment of housing as an investment.
         | 
         | This is a policy failure. We need to build more housing.
         | Zoning, taxes, and NIMBYism are to blame.
         | 
         | Supply and demand curves are the law of the land. Add more
         | supply and the problem is solved.
        
         | drstewart wrote:
         | >Removing homes from the rental market, increasing housing
         | prices.
         | 
         | Wow, I didn't know this! How are housing costs going in cities
         | that have banned or highly regulated Airbnb, like NYC or Paris?
         | I suppose these are highly affordable cities with falling
         | rents?
        
       | erulabs wrote:
       | The tone in here sure has shifted. I remember Brian showing us
       | his binder of maxed out credit cards they used to bootstrap the
       | company. I remember the early version spitting unicorn errors
       | every few seconds.
       | 
       | A few things can be true at the same time:
       | 
       | - Airbnb is an inspiring story for any entrepreneur
       | 
       | - it has had arguably detrimental impacts
       | 
       | - the founders came from privileged backgrounds
       | 
       | - they also worked their ass off and are fiercely intelligent and
       | risked plenty
       | 
       | On the tech side - it's always funny to hear the (correct)
       | critiques of early Rails. It reminds me of when I was talking
       | trash about Java as a kid. My boss laughed and said "Java bought
       | me my house, so it's good in my book". Or the first Tesla I ever
       | saw with the license plate "PHP LOL" in the Facebook parking lot.
       | 
       | Pragmatism must beat idealism. In business and in database
       | primary keys and everything in between.
        
       | Rebelgecko wrote:
       | How much was his cleaning fee? I imagine Airbnb employees are
       | very different hosts from the average one.
        
       | maximinus_thrax wrote:
       | Are there people who really think this is not a PR stunt? Pardon
       | my cynicism but I call bullshit on all of this not being
       | organized/orchestrated by publicist.
       | 
       | > It's wild (vulnerable, transparent, kind, generous, and
       | humbling) for the CEO of a $60B company to welcome complete
       | strangers into his home to host them - including cooking together
       | and showing them the city - for a weekend.
       | 
       | This phrase is outright insulting in my view. Do you really think
       | you will be in the company of a billionaire (and CEO of a PUBLIC
       | company) without even basic vetting? Give me a break.
        
         | thimkerbell wrote:
         | I did look for his airbnb listing at one point, after a
         | previous broadcast that he was putting it up, and there was no
         | way to book it. (I think not because it was already booked.)
        
         | elzbardico wrote:
         | And out of sheer coincidence, one of the guests is from the
         | small founders club world. Small world indeed.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | I would expect every CEO to use their companies products. Even if
       | they have no use for the product/service, their time using the
       | product has to pay off in terms of better understanding the
       | difficulties/challenges faced by the real users.
       | 
       | Sure, they could pay a study group to do that. But doing it
       | themselves will probably let them make better decisions overall.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-11-08 23:01 UTC)