[HN Gopher] Ex-Meta employee says his warnings of Instagram's ha...
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       Ex-Meta employee says his warnings of Instagram's harm to teens
       were ignored
        
       Author : curiousObject
       Score  : 74 points
       Date   : 2023-11-07 21:46 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | CSMastermind wrote:
       | Recently I've been getting shown lots of deepfake ads on
       | Facebook. I report them but then I get back a message saying that
       | they don't violate the advertising guidelines. There's no option
       | to report it specifically for being a deepfake.
       | 
       | I imagine this is a similar problem that Meta won't address until
       | they're forced to.
        
         | lozenge wrote:
         | Is it a fake of a recognisable person? What are they
         | endorsing/promoting?
         | 
         | I don't see the issue with using AI to generate video ads.
         | Sure, it makes it unreasonably cheap to produce video. But the
         | cost of displaying the ad is the main cost anyway.
        
           | greenthrow wrote:
           | The use of the term deepfake implies it was of a recognizable
           | person. That's illegal.
        
             | generic92034 wrote:
             | And if that person has agreed, getting paid for the
             | permission? It would be way more expensive to get
             | $celebrity to have a shooting in a remote location compared
             | to calling them/their agent for a permission. And the
             | result could be comparable.
        
           | CSMastermind wrote:
           | Yes: Joe Rogan, Donald Trump, and Mr. Beast are the ones I've
           | reported so far.
           | 
           | One of them was a pill that supposedly grew your penis,
           | another was for some conspiracy theory site, and one was just
           | a straight up phishing/scam attempt.
           | 
           | Here's one of the products:
           | 
           | https://thepatriotsdigest.co/code-red-blackout
           | 
           | Here's one of the ads:
           | 
           | https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/?active_status=all&ad_t.
           | ..
           | 
           | Apparently all of these were somehow reviewed by a human and
           | determined to be within Facebooks guidelines.
        
             | willsmith72 wrote:
             | Yeah don't these all supposedly go through a review
             | process? How does that go through?
             | 
             | A team of facebook engineers could write an AI to at least
             | flag that stuff for manual review in under a day.
        
               | hanniabu wrote:
               | The review process is just checking whether they're a
               | paying customer
        
         | ToucanLoucan wrote:
         | I commented a few weeks ago on something saying this was
         | exactly what generated video was going to really take off in.
         | Now you don't even need to pay the minimum wage for a
         | struggling actor to endorse whatever thing you're trying to
         | make: now you can just generate someone doing it. Or you know,
         | a famous person.
         | 
         | Personally, going forward, this is going to be an automatic
         | disqualification for me for any product or service. If you
         | can't even be fucked to hire an actor, I'd imagine you can't be
         | fucked to build whatever it is correctly either. No sale. I
         | don't assume this will be a tectonic shift in my consumption
         | habits anyway. I don't buy shit from instagram ads and the like
         | and I have a feeling that's where this is going to really take
         | off, but still.
        
           | mewpmewp2 wrote:
           | On the other hand, maybe if they are efficient with their
           | ads, perhaps they have more budget to put into the product
           | instead of the marketing.
           | 
           | I would rather buy a product that put 90% of the budget into
           | the product and 10% to ads as opposed to 50%/50%.
           | 
           | But I'm sure, they will first A/B test this with real actors
           | to see what the results are before they decide on the course.
        
             | ToucanLoucan wrote:
             | The problem is there's no way to differentiate on the
             | consumer's end from well-prioritized internal spend while
             | responsibly assuring quality where required, and just being
             | a cheap ass business operator who's nickel and dimeing his
             | own products into shit.
             | 
             | It feels like everywhere you look online is nothing but
             | scams and grift now. Everyone out to fleece everyone else
             | with minimum viable products. Nonsense letter combinations
             | masquerading as brands all over Amazon hocking aliexpress
             | garbage with poorly photoshopped product images comes to
             | mind immediately.
        
         | lawlessone wrote:
         | I found an entire company of 50 or so fake people called "AI
         | FIRE" All the same bio. All generated images. Reported multiple
         | profiles as fake LinkedIn as fake.
         | 
         | I only got halfway before it stopped letting me report.
         | 
         | Now LinkedIn doesn't let me report things anymore. It just
         | gives me an "unknown error" message.
         | 
         | *AI FIRE, i got it backwards.
         | 
         | All the fake accounts remain. Because it's not in LinkedIns
         | interest to reduce their usercount.
        
           | jfim wrote:
           | Do you have a link to the company? I'll see if I can report
           | it as a LNKD alumni.
        
             | lawlessone wrote:
             | Sure, check the people images and bios
             | https://www.linkedin.com/company/aifireco/people/
        
         | gravitate wrote:
         | > There's no option to report it specifically for being a
         | deepfake
         | 
         | FB/Instagram is fueled by AI. It makes them money. They're not
         | going to see this kind of 'pink slime' content as being a
         | hindrance.
        
       | k12sosse wrote:
       | BACK IN MY DAY.. the flip phone, t9 input, 320x200 screens were
       | pinnacle of mobile tech, and I longed for a future which started
       | in 2006 with the release of the iPhone. Now, as a dad of a 15
       | year old girl, I am crushed that the ecosystem our generations
       | helped build - with good intentions - rules her and her friends
       | life from waking hour to doomscrolling pre-bed ritual.
       | 
       | It doesn't help being in a shared custody situation. Where my
       | voice was ignored when it came to introducing the device to her
       | in the first place (aware of some of the dangers that lurked at
       | that time). My ex (her mom) are in a very amicable post-
       | relationship, but we just couldn't agree on the "own phone"
       | thing. Too early. After she's driving age. If she can't legally
       | enlist she shouldn't be connected to the hyperverse. She can't
       | decide what's right and smart, just what she thinks is right and
       | smart.
       | 
       | One very important thought is to remember that these low life-
       | experience minors just don't have the experience and mental
       | faculty to deal with low quality bait the same way as those who
       | have come before her and grew up seeing the dastardly intentions
       | of people. They are still very naive, and the power imbalance of
       | bullshit detection.
       | 
       | Anyway, I don't think I have a point here except to say I am
       | ashamed for my role in bringing the pervasive mobile device
       | reality to fruition, no matter how small a role I may have played
       | in it. At least how it stands, now. At this point I wish there
       | were alternatives to "the internet" that work alongside and
       | identically to it, but with more controls and regulation to
       | protect minors.
       | 
       | That's not to say there shouldn't be a regular internet
       | coexisting, but one where our devices can choose what network to
       | operate near identically on, but has more accountability.
       | 
       | More than one kid in our large district has been catfished and
       | had their nudes leak and criminal investigations that lead
       | nowhere.
       | 
       | One kid has tried to start a fight online and wound up paralyzed.
       | 
       | These are sub-16 aged minors playing hardball with the pros.
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | Meta seem to especially profit off the mental exploitation of
         | our elderly parents, and our young teens. Evil sandwich with a
         | pissed-off GenX inbetween.
        
         | sroussey wrote:
         | I dunno... I find that teenagers are far better at discerning
         | low quality online content then their grandparents.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | The popularity of TikTok/Instagram's unskippable garbage
           | video players makes me think otherwise.
           | 
           | I get sent links to videos that are cropped from landscape to
           | portrait back to landscape. The videos have irrelevant emoji
           | all over them. They are even split in half, showing two
           | separate videos at the same time (I presume in case you lose
           | interest with one).
           | 
           | Mind boggling as someone that grew up seeing the advent of
           | streaming high definition video, with the ability to skip
           | around, adjust the playback speed, subtitle, etc.
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | I absolutely do in certain situations but not in others.
           | 
           | Older folks are more wary of trusting strangers, but way more
           | willing to believe bullshit if it agrees with their
           | established worldviews.
           | 
           | Whereas teens are SHOCKINGLY willing to trust strangers on
           | the internet with deeply personal content, like nudes and
           | mental health or medical stuff.
        
           | zlg_codes wrote:
           | The issue is they aren't as good at it as their _parents_ ,
           | i.e. older millennials and Gen X. There's this expectation
           | that younger generations are just better at tech due to being
           | young, because a considerable portion of Gen X and
           | Millennials were enthusiastic and hopeful about technology,
           | and so embraced it and the Internet when they were younger.
           | 
           | The risks are certainly a bit more dire these days than back
           | in the 80s and 90s, but there was also just a more careful
           | culture. Platforms these days want you to share everything,
           | and so kids just fall for it because they want genuine
           | connection... but can't find it.
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | teenagers can be good at detecting low quality content, but
           | they aren't very good at knowing when they're being
           | advertised to (https://theamericangenius.com/business-
           | marketing/teens-cant-...) and they're basically wired to be
           | impulsive and make poor choices. The parts of their brains
           | that let them evaluate long term consequences is still being
           | developed. (https://www.healthline.com/health/teen-brain-
           | development) It's why they are so vulnerable to oversharing
           | (including passing around nudes). Companies who profit from
           | collecting data and pushing ads exploit teens and children
           | because they are so vulnerable.
        
         | hfjjbf wrote:
         | The roots of all this stretch back decades. Whereas the US
         | allowed unhealthy foods and cigarettes to advertise using
         | cartoon characters, and still do, other countries introduced
         | strict prohibitions on such activities. While Joe Camel is a
         | thing of the past, Ronald McDonald is happily sheparding a
         | pediatric obesity crisis.
         | 
         | Which is all to say none of this is the result of a "broken"
         | system, it's the result of a well designed evil system.
         | 
         | Technologists weren't "trying" to build these systems, but
         | happily devoted their lives to advertising without knowing jack
         | shit about the industry or its effects on society.
        
         | footy wrote:
         | > One kid has tried to start a fight online and wound up
         | paralyzed.
         | 
         | Jesus Christ. The catfishing thing is bad too, but not
         | surprising by now. This is a new kind of heartbreaking thing.
        
         | louison11 wrote:
         | I think digital addiction is currently the most pervasive
         | public health issue that is also the least recognized. Sure, we
         | made documentaries like the social dilemma... But whatever...
         | the numbers speak for themselves. Teenagers in the US spend an
         | avg 8 hours/day on the screen.
         | 
         | In this industry people are quick to say "but it's a tool! It
         | depends on how people use it!" But the reality is that we very
         | well know how some specific demographics use it, and we know
         | it's overall not good. Both because of the addictive component,
         | and the bullying/graphic content, etc.
        
           | Aerbil313 wrote:
           | > Teenagers in the US spend an avg 8 hours/day on the screen.
           | 
           | That's shocking! How do people survive over there, wasting a
           | third of their lifetimes and their mental and physical health
           | as well in the process?
           | 
           | only ~%20 joking...
        
       | purpleblue wrote:
       | Can't all the social media companies put comments through a
       | sentiment analyzer before they post, and determine if the poster
       | is writing something anti-social? "Get back in the kitchen"
       | should easily be analyzable through sentiment analysis, and the
       | poster should just get banned. Stuff like this should be low-
       | hanging fruit in my opinion, given what AI can do these days.
        
         | ValleZ wrote:
         | Next step is to ban your google account when you send something
         | that can be classified as not positive, right?
        
         | dudul wrote:
         | Can't tell if the suggestion is serious but I'll bite: how do
         | you distinguish from jokes/sarcasm?
         | 
         | Not everybody knows how to use /s or jk.
        
           | alwaysrunning wrote:
           | Or bothers too. This sounds like something I would say to my
           | wife, who doesn't cook and I usually put the dishes away, but
           | bc it's an inside joke between us and close family/friends I
           | would get banned for it.
        
         | tetromino_ wrote:
         | Your post contains the substring "get back in the kitchen".
         | Would you expect to be banned for it?
         | 
         | If your immediate reaction is along the lines of "surely
         | sentiment analysis will analyze all the other words in my post"
         | - consider what happens if your post is split into multiple
         | posts. Some of which, perhaps, are images or gifs rather than
         | words. And some of which refer to pre-existing context between
         | the two people communicating and of which the sentiment
         | analysis cannot possibly be aware.
        
           | pydry wrote:
           | Honestly I dont even think humans are that good at it
           | sometimes.
           | 
           | Anyway, I should get back in the kitchen. I have vegetables
           | to chop.
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | Now, what if they could recognize "anti-social" content but
         | _also_ found that it was the secret sauce to engagement and
         | played a major role in making their unimaginably large business
         | viable? Do you think they 'd ban users or maybe do something
         | else?
        
       | Aerbil313 wrote:
       | Everyone, read the articles in Jonathan Haidt's substack. He has
       | done an enormous amount of amazing work on the topic.
       | 
       | Results speak for themselves:
       | https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/13-explanations-mental-...
        
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