[HN Gopher] Vitess 18
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       Vitess 18
        
       Author : ksec
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2023-11-07 17:55 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (planetscale.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (planetscale.com)
        
       | IceWreck wrote:
       | Why is planetscale making release notes for vitess - a google
       | project
        
         | nilslice wrote:
         | i believe the creators of the Vitess project originally founded
         | Planetscale
        
         | Operyl wrote:
         | As far as I know, they're the primary stewards for the project
         | because the founders are the guys that made Vitess.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Seems Vitess is a CNCF/Linux Foundation project?
        
         | samlambert wrote:
         | We (PlanetScale) are the maintainers of Vitess.
        
         | caniszczyk wrote:
         | Vitess is an open source and openly governed CNCF project
         | 
         | https://landscape.cncf.io/?selected=vitess
        
       | jetru wrote:
       | Interesting, foreign key constraints typically make sharding
       | harder, interesting to see them add support for some type of fkey
       | constraint (even though it's same-shard only) to the db. I wonder
       | how it impacts use-cases like vreplication/online DDL - I suppose
       | you have to be careful with the exact semantics of the fkeys.
        
       | ik8s wrote:
       | It's great to see support for foreign keys, at least for FKs in
       | the same shards. I've been wanting to explore PlanetScale
       | (Vitess) for a while and the lack of support for FK was a blocker
       | because the application currently relies on them.
       | 
       | I wonder how practical it'd be to attempt using this now, or
       | would I have to go through too many hoops or footguns?
        
         | tbarn wrote:
         | Just wait until December, we will release more information
         | about foreign key constraints on PlanetScale then!
         | 
         | It shouldn't be too many hoops, fairly standard foreign key
         | constraint support. Let us (PlanetScale) know if it is!
        
         | samlambert wrote:
         | FKs will be available on PlanetScale within weeks so it's
         | probably worth just waiting.
        
       | aantix wrote:
       | When will Postgres be supported?
        
         | tristan957 wrote:
         | If you want something similar to Planetscale, but Postgres, you
         | can check out Neon, which is where I work in the interest of
         | transparency.
        
           | samlambert wrote:
           | Quite a stretch to say similar. Neon does not support
           | sharding, Boost, or scale to anywhere near PlanetScale as
           | reliably.
        
             | nikita wrote:
             | Neon will stay true to Postgres. Our storage is sharded and
             | bottomless. You can get a ton of TPS scale with large
             | Postgres compute plus read replicas.
             | 
             | Shared nothing architectures are useless for 99% of the
             | market and break compatibility with the single node
             | databases.
        
               | sgammon wrote:
               | As a user of PlanetScale I don't know what distinction
               | you are making here and why.
               | 
               | I've never had compatibility issues with single-node
               | databases. It "just works" in the cloud and locally
               | thanks to MySQL support in vitess.
        
               | samlambert wrote:
               | > Our storage is sharded and bottomless.
               | 
               | Anyone can claim this and LVM together 20 64TiB EBS
               | volumes and put them on one big node. That's not sharding
               | or bottomless.
               | 
               | Sharding and a shared nothing have incredible benefits to
               | anyone who has a requirement for uptime, scalability, and
               | cost reduction. We've avoided supporting parts of MySQL
               | that make scaling worse and are working to add them back
               | in ways that work, like FKs. In return for not supporting
               | all MySQL features we hand back an immense amount in
               | return. This is something our customers have been happy
               | with.
        
               | nikita wrote:
               | Neon doesn't use EBS volumes. That's why it has an
               | inherent cost advantage over Planetscale.
        
               | sgammon wrote:
               | Not to mention the 99.8% uptime at Neon, which is
               | shocking. Look, if you are going to bring percentages,
               | make sure they are the right ones.
               | 
               | https://www.planetscalestatus.com/
               | 
               | https://neonstatus.com/
        
               | tristan957 wrote:
               | FWIW, our uptime is definitely something we are
               | prioritizing.
        
               | sgammon wrote:
               | Of course... this is a Vitess/Planetscale post or I
               | probably wouldn't have even brought it up. All of these
               | products are constantly undergoing change. They embody
               | the best intentions and dreams of very smart people, such
               | as yourself.
               | 
               | I believe Neon will be one of the providers that sticks
               | around to do this. Comparison is the thief of joy.
        
               | nikita wrote:
               | Our uptime will improve. We have been keeping up with the
               | growth (2500 databases are created per day). And I
               | insisted to be fully transparent on uptime.
               | 
               | There is a ton of work internally that will improve the
               | uptime as we get to GA.
        
           | sgammon wrote:
           | Having tried Neon, it's not really a replacement for
           | Planetscale. PS' in-cloud features are hard to replace. In my
           | review, PS won on a feature and cost basis.
           | 
           | I think PlanetScale is the most mature option on the market
           | right now by far
        
             | tristan957 wrote:
             | I agree that Planetscale is a very mature offering. Neon is
             | technically in preview still, but we are actively working
             | on the maturity of our offering every day. The success of
             | Planetscale to date is definitely a position many database
             | vendors want to attain.
             | 
             | I don't think _won_ is the right term. _In the lead_ would
             | be a better phrase in my opinion. I think Planetscale being
             | based on MySQL will hurt them in the long run. Tying
             | themselves to Orcale is already hurting them, having to
             | fork MySQL to add vector support for instance. Neon, on the
             | other hand, gets to benefit from a larger and much more
             | collaborative community in Postgres, as do other Postgres
             | vendors like Supabase, Azure, AWS, Tembo, Nile, etc.
             | 
             | Please continue to use the vendor that you find works for
             | you, however.
        
               | sgammon wrote:
               | "Won" is a statement which is accurate for the moment in
               | which I did my review. I think all of these database
               | providers are great.
               | 
               | Postgres people need a solution just as much as MySQL
               | people do. I think when it comes to Postgres, the name in
               | my mind is Neon, even though I am a Planetscale customer.
               | In my current job, I need MySQL, but to be clear I
               | wouldn't be against Neon (even as a PS fan) if I had a
               | direct need for it.
               | 
               | Neon has a reason to exist even if Planetscale is in the
               | "lead." There is a huge community around Vitess,
               | including, you know, YouTube, not to mention MySQL, which
               | also has an enormous community.
               | 
               | Keep up the good work. Databases as a service are a good
               | thing to be doing.
        
               | throwusawayus wrote:
               | youtube migrated away from vitess several years ago
               | 
               | Mysql product is circling drain under oracles direction
               | anymore. New 8.x "innovation" releases lack any important
               | features. even Mariadb is out executing oracle despite
               | being broke!
               | 
               | Mysql community is in bad shape too. Official slack
               | channel is avalanche of lazy newbie questions. Official
               | linkedin group is endless spew of "learn sql cheat sheet"
               | 
               | Sad. It's done for. community may still be "enormous" but
               | that is bad thing when its communication channels overrun
               | by sub-bootcamp-level devs
        
               | correct_beans wrote:
               | Nobody cares. Millions of apps run on mysql despite your
               | objections. Good luck with that one
        
               | benatkin wrote:
               | Not accurate IMO. It's marketing a feature for giant
               | users like YouTube and GitHub as important for everyone.
               | Neon and sqlite are winning from my perspective. The
               | BlueSky move to thousands of sqlite databases should
               | inspire similar architectures in other apps. Vercel has
               | stopped gushing about PlanetScale in particular and now
               | offers never options including Neon.
        
               | correct_beans wrote:
               | ??? Bluesky isn't at all a typical application
               | architecture. The code is gross and insanely complex for
               | a regular app. Vercel still gushes all the time about
               | Planetscale, and so does Cloudflare. Neon is the provider
               | du jour _for postgres_
        
         | billythemaniam wrote:
         | CockroachDB and Yugabyte are Postgres compatible. GCP Spanner
         | also has a Postgres compatibility layer. CockroachDB and
         | Spanner support foreign keys across shards which is an
         | interesting feature.
        
         | Icathian wrote:
         | You probably want to check out Greenplum for the postgres
         | equivalent to this.
        
           | andrewmutz wrote:
           | Isn't Greenplum intended for OLAP style workloads? I believe
           | Vitess is intended to be used for OLTP workloads.
        
             | Icathian wrote:
             | It works quite well for OLTP too. It's just that a lot of
             | engineering effort went into features to make it workable
             | for olap, which admittedly means that those hours didn't go
             | towards further improving OLTP features. Overall though
             | it's quite commonly used for both.
        
         | shawnz wrote:
         | I believe Citus is the closest alternative for Postgres.
        
       | ugh123 wrote:
       | Not knowing what this was about, I immediately figured
       | "planetscale.com" was some Space site and "Vitess 18" was a new
       | moon discovered somewhere -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
         | samlambert wrote:
         | If we ever have some spare marketing budget we will try and
         | discover a moon for you.
        
           | ugh123 wrote:
           | Too bad "io" is already discovered :)
        
       | getcrunk wrote:
       | So while searching for something like this for postgres I came
       | across citus. Any one know how that stacks up?
       | 
       | https://github.com/citusdata/citus
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | Does it literally repaint the terminal for the completion
       | suggestions? Dang
       | 
       | You telling me we can make a ReactJS for terminals? ha
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-07 23:01 UTC)