[HN Gopher] Toyota's new $10k pickup
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Toyota's new $10k pickup
Author : fwungy
Score : 68 points
Date : 2023-11-07 16:21 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.motortrend.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.motortrend.com)
| hcarrega wrote:
| Waiting for see one technical in the Middle East
| jabl wrote:
| From TFA:
|
| > But Toyota's longer-range plan is to minimize profit on sale
| of the basic truck, and earn on the upfit potential.
|
| Eagerly awaiting the official Toyota Technical.
| eschneider wrote:
| Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with. (looks
| like that diesel has _enough_ torque for my needs.)
|
| It's become almost impossible to find a cheap pickup truck in the
| US. Even older USED trucks are commanding $30K these days.
|
| If they could fit this out to pass safety regs in North America
| and keep the price under $20K, it would be a license to print
| money.
| gottorf wrote:
| A small pickup, at least with any kind of ICE, is literally
| illegal to sell here due to CAFE regulations, which are
| strangely based on the footprint of the car. An actually small
| pickup would have to be as fuel-efficient as sedans and small
| SUVs, which isn't going to work out.
|
| EVs will work, but not at that sub-$20k price point.
| nathanaldensr wrote:
| People don't even realize that the government agencies
| responsible for saving us from "climate change" are the same
| ones causing absolutely stupid issues like this.
| gsk22 wrote:
| Why the scare quotes? Are we still pretending climate
| change isn't real?
|
| The rest of your point is totally valid (CAFE is a textbook
| example of well-intentioned regulations backfiring
| spectacularly).
|
| But the climate denier nonsense kinda spoils the message.
| jstarfish wrote:
| This can't be right. Maybe it is, but it makes no sense.
|
| The 90s Frontier is a tiny little thing, almost what a Kei
| truck is today. Same with the Ranger. An El Camino is bigger.
|
| I bought a base Frontier in 2017, wanting that tiny truck but
| ended up with something the size of a 90s F150. Literally the
| smallest option on the market, whose weak-ass v4 struggles to
| haul its own weight (and has the turning radius of an
| aircraft carrier).
|
| Tacomas? I like Toyota but the used market for those is worse
| than MSRP.
|
| And Ford stopped making the Ranger; the Maverick ain't it.
| It's basically what I have already.
|
| How is _this_ the result of new _efficiency_ standards? We
| still have small cars on the road. Cutting the roof off and
| appending a flatbed doesn 't require a monster footprint.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM
|
| TL;DW:
|
| In 2008 CAFE introduced a formula that calculates the
| required MPG based off of the track times the wheelbase
| (basically the rectangle formed by the tires). Trucks are
| less aerodynamic than sedans, so small trucks can't be made
| that get sufficiently low MPG to meet this standard, and
| thus even though a smaller truck would use less fuel than a
| larger truck that meets the standard.
| fwungy wrote:
| Toyota has a small pickup in the works for the US market to
| compete with the Ford Maverick, which is a huge success.
| Probably won't see it till 2027.
| samketchup wrote:
| The Maverick is nowhere near a success. Powertrain issues
| aside, it was nearly impossible to buy the $20,000 trim of
| the truck. Sure you can buy a $40,000 optioned out hybrid
| version, but a used Frontier or Tacoma is a much better
| option for a $20,000 truck.
| jonwachob91 wrote:
| If you ordered new from Ford, you'd get the maverick with
| your desired options at the advertised price. The problem
| was, it's such a great truck that the order books for the
| entire year have closed within DAYS of opening. It's the
| used ones, or the new orders declined by the customers and
| then sold by the dealerships, that are ridiculously priced.
| If you have the time, ordering from Ford is a great option
| to get a great value truck.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| The Maverick is only small in modern terms. It's larger than
| the old S10 or Rangers were by quite a bit, and more like an
| old midsized truck -- it's length is actually smack in the
| middle of a short-bed and long-bed 1990 F-150 and 11-inches
| longer than the _Long Bed_ 1990 Ranger.
| mesarvagya wrote:
| > If they could fit this out to pass safety regs in North
| America and keep the price under $20K
|
| And add dealer's markup fee and hidden fees, it will
| automatically touch 30K
| rewmie wrote:
| > Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with.
|
| From an outsider, that's the thing that baffles me the most
| about the current state of the whole world's auto industry.
| Sometimes it seems that all auto makers are colluding to
| prevent any competition based on price, and are instead
| invested in forcing this notion that the only possible consumer
| pressure is on seeking luxury features like onboard computers,
| touchscreens, media centers, etc etc.
|
| A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A
| to B, and do so reliably and economically. The automotive
| industry is the textbook example of economy of scale. Why are
| we still seeing low-end cars being sold for small fortunes?
| swatcoder wrote:
| > A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from
| point A to B, and do so reliably
|
| Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades
| years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a
| motivation for new car sales anymore. If they just need
| something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars
| that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of
| thousands of more miles. It's tough to compete in that space
| and come away with a worthwhile margin on top of fresh design
| and manufacturing costs.
|
| So manufacturers, who don't want to scale down sales and
| production, try to _entice_ buyers with shiny things that
| aren 't available on old models and focus on higher price
| tiers. And that it coincides with booming tech culture and
| its fashion/impulse-driven purchase cycles makes it that much
| easier for them.
| avar wrote:
| The reason is government regulation. I'm not saying that
| increased safety and emission standard are bad, but they're
| the main thing driving up car prices.
|
| How can I assert that with confidence? Because all you need
| to do is to look up what the cars that are illegal to sell in
| the US, EU and countries that are similarly regulated.
|
| E.g. South Africa has pickup trucks starting at around $15k,
| new: https://briefly.co.za/facts-
| lifehacks/top/138901-12-cheapest...
| ezekg wrote:
| Not gonna lie, this thing looks pretty hot. With a lift and
| overlanding gear, this looks like it could be a fun rig. (I have
| no real overlanding experience, only wanderlust.)
| petee wrote:
| I mean, $10000 is almost enough to ignore just how ugly that
| thing is. I just don't see the comparison to the 70 series or
| Hilux, except vaguely, maybe similar to La Croix's relationship
| to water.
|
| To be clear, I find the effort they put into "styling" it ugly;
| if they committed and made a utilitarian vehicle without the
| style-effort, it likely would look great.
| fwungy wrote:
| It's modular. Doesn't look bad at all when built out.
|
| https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2025-toyota-imv-0-pickup-...
| petee wrote:
| I get that, which on its own is awesome. But even fitted out,
| it looks like overlanding is their goal market, cause its
| gotta look "mean." Maybe because I use power tools so often
| that when something flips form-follows-function backwards, it
| stands out like a sore thumb -- for example none of the
| exterior design of the cab affects its use or modularity, yet
| they clearly spent some time on it.
| saltcured wrote:
| In the cab, I see mostly just flat surfaces and simplified
| corners incorporating the plate glass, all of which seems
| driven by low cost manufacturing while also meeting basic
| structural requirements.
| fwungy wrote:
| Simple materials and construction that make it easy to
| repair in developing countries.
| p1mrx wrote:
| The single-color exterior looks decent, reminds me of a sci-fi
| moon vehicle:
|
| https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/11/2024-Toyota-IMV-0...
| everybodyknows wrote:
| > The Toyota Tacoma pickup is built in America for Americans and
| Canadians, to dodge the "chicken tax," ...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
|
| Yet another regressive slant in our tax system, inglorious legacy
| of an earlier generation.
| genter wrote:
| Tacoma is a softer and less rugged vehicle than the Hilux,
| since people use them more like a car. People in third world
| countries use the Hilux as a work truck. People here in the US
| use a one ton truck for a work vehicle.
| xcdzvyn wrote:
| The loophole examples in this article are great.
|
| > Japanese manufacturers initially found they could export
| "chassis cab" configurations (which included the entire light
| truck, less the cargo box or truck bed) with only a 4% tariff.
| A truck bed would subsequently be attached to the chassis in
| the United States and the vehicle could be sold as a light
| truck.
|
| > From 1978 to 1987, the Subaru BRAT carried two rear-facing
| seats in its rear bed to meet classification as a "passenger
| vehicle" and not a light truck.
|
| > Ford imported all of its first-generation Ford Transit
| Connect models as "passenger vehicles" by including rear
| windows, rear seats, and rear seat belts. The vehicles are
| exported from Turkey, arrive in Baltimore, and are converted
| back into light trucks by replacing rear windows with metal
| panels and removing the rear seats and seat belts.
| fwungy wrote:
| It's modular. This is very cool. Too bad we won't see them here.
|
| https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2025-toyota-imv-0-pickup-...
| pedrocr wrote:
| For a farm run around I'd love an EV version of this with just a
| small motor and battery. Even a simple golf cart costs more than
| this these days. A 50kW motor and 25kWh LFP or Sodium battery
| would be plenty and should allow hitting a very similar price
| point.
| petee wrote:
| I'm sure you've seen this already (or its numerous bretheren)
| and it's relatively affordable --
|
| https://electrek.co/2021/10/25/i-actually-bought-a-cheap-ele...
| pedrocr wrote:
| The Chinese manufacturers are definitely promising but it's
| still an import ordeal for a dubious quality product. For now
| we're making do with some second hand lead-acid UTVs and
| planning on doing lithium conversions mostly to get rid of
| the hassle of watering and maintaining lead-acid. But this
| market could definitely use some more options from the
| automotive side. EV converting a small Suzuki 4x4 has been on
| my mind for a while now. That and an EV converted skid steer
| would be my ideal duo of farm vehicles. With LFP batteries
| finally becoming more easily available it may become possible
| soon.
| specialist wrote:
| > _EV converting a small Suzuki 4x4 has been on my mind for
| a while now._
|
| That'd be perfect.
|
| Please share when you do.
|
| I was curious about converting a 80s VW Rabbit/Golf to BEV.
| Starting with a non-functioning car, my wild guess is ~8k.
| Assuming a ~10 kWh battery, which should have > 100m range.
| Way more than I need for dog parks, groceries, errands.
| gottorf wrote:
| > which should have > 100m range. Way more than I need
| for dog parks, groceries, errands.
|
| If that's the range you're looking for, very lightly used
| (under 20k miles and less than 3 years old) Nissan Leafs
| can be had for around $20k, and comes with CarPlay. It
| certainly wouldn't be as cool as an 80s Golf EV
| conversion, but it would also be a lot more comfortable
| inside ;-)
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| In other words, a pickup truck! Not a giant SUV masquerading as
| one, with a 5ft bed and 5-passenger luxury car cab, with price to
| match. I'm old enough to remember normal pickup trucks,
| affordable for actual "work" use, with bench seating for three,
| full 8x4 bed with half ton cargo capacity and not much else.
| jeffwask wrote:
| I want a 15+ year old truck with this exact configuration as
| beater for dump and hardware/Lanscaping runs. They are
| virtually impossible to locate.
| tbihl wrote:
| You can still buy those, typically ex-contractor vehicles at
| auction. Crank windows, cloth bench, long bed, crappy radio.
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| Cloth bench? Luxury! The ones I remember were vinyl. And what
| do you mean a mono AM radio is crappy?
| SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
| I have a 2 door late 2000's Ford Ranger I've been driving for
| the past decade. Crank windows and the vinyl seats are
| falling apart and it's my favorite vehicle I've ever owned.
| Low maintenance costs: only had one actual mechanical
| problem, bad coil pack, since I've owned it and I've had the
| sway bar replaced but otherwise nothing. other than that it's
| only been batteries, oil and tires and
| registration/insurance. I bought a $200 vinyl tonneau cover
| off of Amazon a few years ago and the utility of the thing is
| just amazing for the price (I paid around $6000 USD for it in
| 2012). I recently replaced the crappy radio with a $40 unit
| with Bluetooth.
|
| I've been interested in upgrading it as it's kind of getting
| old now and it would be nice to get something with CarPlay
| without having to do a retrofit but the main killer feature
| that's just not available on consumer trucks anymore is the
| bed size. It's extremely rare to find a truck with the
| features I want that still have a 6 ft bed size. There are so
| many things I haul around that fit exactly into that bed
| length
| gottorf wrote:
| For brand-new trucks, both GM (Chevy/GMC) as well as Ford
| make half-ton trucks with a regular cab and six-foot bed,
| which is the closest thing to what your Ranger is and can
| be optioned with CarPlay. Ram, unfortunately, stopped
| selling the regular cab 1500 Classic as of the last model
| year.
|
| Used availability varies, of course, but used cars are such
| a silly deal at the moment compared to new car pricing that
| it may not make sense.
|
| I'm a big fan of those "shorty" trucks.
| cameldrv wrote:
| All of the mid-size trucks (Tacoma, Ranger, Frontier) have
| 6 foot bed versions. Unfortunately they don't make the
| traditional pickup single row seat versions anymore, but
| you can still get a two door model with the little back
| seats.
| toast0 wrote:
| You can still buy them, but when they're gone, they're gone.
| After Ford stopped the Ranger in 2011, nobody has sold a US
| market regular cab compact pickup truck. (The more recent
| Ranger isn't available as a regular cab)
|
| You can get a regular cab F-150, or similar, and you can get
| a smaller truck with a tiny bed and two rows of seats.
|
| This seems unlikely to make it here, but my hope is someone
| bring something like it here. It will probably need to be
| electric to meet cafe standards, but I'd prefer hybrid.
| hasmanean wrote:
| Half a ton cargo capacity?
|
| That's like the weight of what, 2 fat people?
|
| A ton is 1000 lb, right?
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| A ton is 1000kg which is approximately 2200lb. Half a ton
| never seemed much for the pickup trucks of old, but on the
| other hand, you could overload them by 1.5-2x and still have
| a bit of suspension travel left for a careful drive home,
| e.g. when fetching roof shingles. This was when they were
| cheap utility vehicles of course.
| GauntletWizard wrote:
| In the US, we have an imperial ton of precisely 2000lb. A
| metric ton is commonly heard, but always specified.
| stevage wrote:
| Metric tonne.
| expertentipp wrote:
| My dude, In Europe elevators with capacity half a ton say
| they can lift 7 people.
| pstuart wrote:
| Or 4 Americans /s
| Freedom2 wrote:
| A ton has always meant 1000 lb to me and my Texas education -
| ya'll are dreaming when you mention 2200 lbs or whatever.
| westmeal wrote:
| Wish we could have shit like this in the US but we can't because
| the EPA and regulators are too busy making bank.
| cameldrv wrote:
| I love the flatbed with the flip down sides. I used one of these
| in Europe, and they are incredibly convenient. You flip down the
| sides and load it up without having to reach over anything and
| then just flip them back up to drive. Unloading dirt or gravel by
| hand is so much easier when you can just push it off the side
| with a shovel.
|
| I've seen this once or twice in the U.S., but only on very large
| trucks. I wonder if there's some regulatory reason.
| gottorf wrote:
| > I've seen this once or twice in the U.S., but only on very
| large trucks. I wonder if there's some regulatory reason.
|
| In very general terms, pickup trucks in Europe (and other
| countries outside of North America) are used for hauling things
| in the bed, whereas pickup trucks in the US are used to tow
| things. Not to mention that especially in the US, they're very
| often used as daily drivers, so the flip-down sides, as handy
| as they are, are less appealing because they look dingy and
| will rattle.
|
| With modern half-ton and higher pickups in the US, the bed is
| actually very difficult to use, because the market keeps
| demanding more and more "aggressive-looking" and "off-road
| capable" trucks, which means the whole vehicle and the load
| floor get taller and taller. You basically have to be a giant
| to actually be able to load and unload things from the bed.
| Solim wrote:
| Why can't this become a compact car at, say 15K? (as long as it
| doesn't look like 2015(?) prius that was the ugliest car of the
| decade)
| maxglute wrote:
| No build in hardpoints for weapons?
|
| Otherwise amazing. I love how value engineered the aesthetic is.
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| Man, $10000 doesn't get you very much truck anymore.
| hedora wrote:
| I wonder how much weight it will carry or tow.
| culopatin wrote:
| What is with this site expanding the video once you scroll and
| covering what you are reading? Who had the idea?
| rawgabbit wrote:
| I assume no air conditioning. Maybe heat. No radio.
|
| Does it have an outlet to run power tools? I assume the food
| truck is getting electricity from the truck?
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(page generated 2023-11-07 23:01 UTC)