[HN Gopher] ICE faces heat after agents install apps, VPNs on of...
___________________________________________________________________
ICE faces heat after agents install apps, VPNs on official phones
Author : LinuxBender
Score : 96 points
Date : 2023-11-07 16:12 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
| KMnO4 wrote:
| Since it's not clear without reading the article, ICE in this
| case stands for Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
| iAMkenough wrote:
| Since it's not clear without reading the article, VPN stands
| for Virtual Private Network.
| resizeitplz wrote:
| It might be possible that on an international _TECHNOLOGY_
| forum, a significant percentage of users know what 'VPN' (a
| tech thing) stands for and don't know what 'ICE' (a
| government office (off topic) of a single nation (limited
| scope)) stands for. Context matters. ICE isn't within either
| the regional or topical domains of common conversation on
| this forum.
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| I'm from Europe, to me ICE refers to German high-velocity
| trains. I was not aware the US had an ICE office.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| There are so many things that are called ICE, several of
| them would make sense in sentence.
|
| https://www.acronymfinder.com/ICE.html
|
| My preferred one is "Intrusion Countermeasures
| Electronics", from cyberpunk literature.
| acka wrote:
| Depending on one's technical background or interests,
| reading about ICE can refer to many things. in my case
| Internal Combustion Engine and In-Circuit Emulator.
| coding123 wrote:
| > ICE faces heat after agents install apps, VPNS
|
| I thought this was another article about cars - engines
| overheating after bad security update and nation actors
| (agents) install apps and VPNs in cars.
| ct0 wrote:
| apps stands for appetizers but not in this context. HN has
| officially become reddit.
| NewJazz wrote:
| This is what happens when presidents boast about how they are
| bolstering border security by pointing to number of agent hires.
| You get a bunch of low life wannabe warriors. Quality over
| quantity. Get the mid off the street.
| libraryatnight wrote:
| I wish there were some way they could filter out the whole
| super patriot warrior persona from law enforcement, it's
| useless to the community and it doesn't feel safe it feels
| hostile, they have no business being in a position of power
| over anyone.
|
| I shouldn't see cops with punisher skull and crossed AR15s
| sleeve tattoos, that's not a law enforcement vibe, that's
| murderous vigilante cult vibe.
| simbolit wrote:
| It's a vicious cycle. As long as the punisher types are cops,
| the "right" people are disincentivized to join, whereas other
| punisher types feel welcome. :-(
| sublinear wrote:
| Wouldn't that just filter for the ones who really are
| murderous vigilantes or agitate those jokers into being
| serious about it?
| Spivak wrote:
| Take away the guns and the ability to use any real force (ie
| on duty cops are held to the same standard of assault as
| everyone else) The police department as a whole needs that
| ability but reserve it for a small exclusive units that can
| only get called in to deal with matters that require rapid
| deesclation by force.
|
| When 99/100 of best cops are glorified meter maids, social
| workers, and civil servants you'll see the machismo disappear
| overnight.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Taking away cop guns in America would just equate to a lot
| of dead cops.
| MeImCounting wrote:
| I wasnt aware having a gun could stop bullets from
| killing you? Unless you think its appropriate for cops to
| be acting as judge jury and executioner.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| You didn't realize that? You really need to think harder
| on this.
|
| Are you aware that having a gun can stop a grizzly bear's
| teeth and claws from killing you too?
|
| > Unless you think its appropriate for cops to be acting
| as judge jury and executioner
|
| So if someone starts shooting at at random people in a
| mall, and a cop has a gun on him, he is supposed to run
| up and use some judo to disable the mass shooter, since
| the cop shouldn't act as judge jury and executioner?
| MeImCounting wrote:
| So your argument is that cops should have weapons because
| some extraordinary circumstances sometimes happen and we
| should hope that instead of acting like the cops at
| Parkland did they take it upon themselves to circumvent
| the justice system and instead dispense "frontier
| justice"?
|
| I am going ignore the part about grizzly bears because I
| dont believe that is in good faith and is basically just
| a non-sequitur
|
| I fail to see how thats any better than disarming the
| bullies and letting specialized teams IE SWAT teams take
| care of extraordinary situations. That is if they even
| manage to show up in time to do anything which is in
| doubt.
| googlryas wrote:
| I think you haven't been paying attention if you think
| people shooting guns at the public, or at cops, is an
| "extraordinary circumstance" in America. It's not just
| mall shootings, or parkland. It's also people just
| shooting at cops after getting pulled over for speeding,
| which is far less likely to get national news attention.
|
| You're free to ignore it, but I added the point about
| grizzly bears because you seemed confused how a gun can
| help defend you against someone with a gun. It can help
| defend you against many threats, in fact.
|
| Edit:responded from the account on my phone, sorry for
| any confusion.
| MeImCounting wrote:
| The premise of a gun being able to defend you from
| anything is dependent on you using that gun to kill said
| thing. I feel like maybe I didnt get across what I was
| trying to say clearly enough. Cops being protected by
| guns = cops killing anything they "perceive as a threat"
|
| I dont believe police officers should have the right or
| responsibility to dispense "frontier justice" meaning to
| execute people because they do something that is illegal.
| I am sure there is some legal definition of when an
| officer is allowed to shoot and kill another human being
| but I, and I hope most other people see that as
| circumventing the rule of law, making themselves into the
| judge jury and executioner.
|
| The entire premise of our legal system is thrown out the
| door when we accept police officers having the capability
| to use their own judgement to dispense death. See
| "Robocop" this isnt some new idea. Cops having guns on
| them is equivalent in many ways to martial law. I hope I
| dont need to explain why martial law is not a good thing
| for a free society.
| Teever wrote:
| How much is enough weaponry for law enforcement, and when
| is it too much?
| briffle wrote:
| As we have seen over and over again, the police have no
| duty to stop a crime in progress. We have seen where
| police sometimes sit there and wait for backup (ie, SWAT)
| before running in anyways.
| Spivak wrote:
| No it wouldn't for the _exact_ same reason that regular
| people don 't need guns on them at all times. What makes
| the police threatening isn't individual cops projecting
| the threat of violence and dispensing it randomly like
| Batman. It's that the police as an institution have the
| people, time, and resources to follow you to the ends of
| the earth (i.e. "the long arm of the law") and dispense
| collective justice. If your goal is not going to prison
| killing a cop is a really terrible way to go about that.
| NotACop182 wrote:
| Good luck filtering them out. It's almost built into the
| culture. You're an outcast where I come from if you fall out
| of line. You learn to just go with the flow and avoid the bad
| elements to survive.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Maybe start by not hiring people with punisher skull and
| crossed AR15s sleeve tattoos.
| wyldberry wrote:
| The ability for hacker news commenters to grossly over-
| simplify and misrepresent things like this is unparalleled.
| Just like it takes all folks to make a village, it also takes
| those folks to do some missions that police forces have. The
| problem is when the culture of a police force is all of one
| type. There, however, is value in having people appear strong
| to those who would take advantage if weakness is detected.
| Today's punisher skull is yesteryear's ceremonial armor and
| masks.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| Nothing we need done requires a punisher skull bully with
| an inferiority complex intimidating citizens.
| wyldberry wrote:
| Nothing we need done requires .... intimidating citizens.
|
| Until you need SWAT to kick in a door with actual
| murderers on the other end. Really until you need
| violence to contain violence.
|
| Then you get into the real questions: in their day-to-day
| interactions such as issuing citations are they
| intimidating citizens with behavior or their appearance?
| I've known several Military folks who later became police
| (and had significantly better escalation of force
| training from the military) who looked fierce but were
| big softies most days. No better friend, but no worse
| enemy and all.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| Yeah man I literally know two dozen cops and almost every
| single one is a racist coward who gets off on bullying
| people they have power over. That's what the punisher
| skulls are for.
|
| The murderers behind a door thing sound scary tho, how
| often do you think that happens? Vs like every other
| encounter the 700k american cops do each day? Also uh,
| uvalde? maine? Seems like we might be optimizing for the
| wrong thing here and also it doesn't even work.
| seanw444 wrote:
| Ah, giraffe_lady again. No, that's objectively not what
| the Punisher skulls are for. People don't slap a Punisher
| skull on their truck and say "alright, how many
| minorities can I oppress today." At least not the
| overwhelming majority.
| acdha wrote:
| The Punisher skull is a statement that they believe in
| vigilantism, not the rule of law, to the point where the
| guy who created the character condemned police officers
| who do it:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20190116204016/https://www.sy
| fy....
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| What does objectively mean to you?
| Unfrozen0688 wrote:
| Excuse me? Because they installed NordPVN they are "low life
| wannabe warriors"? What are you even talking about?
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| Nah they are low life wannabe warriors for joining ICE
| though.
| bandyaboot wrote:
| I wouldn't use that particular language, but it does raise
| questions when they're installing privacy apps on official
| devices. If it's a security thing, that shouldn't be handled
| individually.
| pj_mukh wrote:
| Is a university degree a requirement? Would that help?
|
| I know four year degrees get a bad rap and god knows the prices
| are definitely bloated.
|
| However, it could be a good filter to really take out the
| wannabe warriors.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > However, it could be a good filter to really take out the
| wannabe warriors.
|
| Plenty of wannabe warriors with bachelor's degrees,
| particularly in fields related to government, criminal
| justice, etc.
|
| And there'll be more if you make it a requirement for a job
| for which it currently isn't required and to which wannabe
| warriors are attracted.
| acdha wrote:
| How many of the war criminals in the Bush administration or
| the people who tried to help Trump break U.S. law not only
| had 4 year degrees but also things like law degrees or MBAs?
| You can't use credentials to filter out things like this any
| more reliably than head shape.
| tengbretson wrote:
| If I had to guess I would say that willingness to stand up to
| institutional corruption is negatively correlated with being
| in 5 figures of unforgivable debt.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| It's not. It should be. I have no issues with applying
| educational rebates for members of the police force, but it
| needs to result in less litigation. At this point police are
| costing taxpayers huge sums of money due to lack of
| understanding and short term training. I don't know if we'll
| every move away from the current thinking, but I think most
| citizens want protectors, not warriors.
| pookha wrote:
| There's absurd amounts of cartel violence right now in Mexico.
| My brother in law is married to a lady who grew up in Mexico
| and she's lost several cousins to cartel violence. The town
| where her family lives is more or less vacant after hours. And
| I don't know about border-enforcement but state park police are
| actively engaging with these same cartel members and they are
| armed and violent (https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-
| blog/3577673-cartels-ar... from that I'd assume that these New
| Jalisco soldiers are not pleasant to deal with if you're one of
| these low-level BP guys (cartel's are involved in smuggling
| people through the border). I wouldn't want their jobs and I
| wouldn't call them "low life wannabe warrior's" either.
| NewJazz wrote:
| I don't doubt that there is considerable violence along the
| border.
|
| But I think there should be much more professional actors if
| they are state-sponsored. These guys make 40k on the low-end
| and 100k at peak.[1] That's nothing.
|
| Of course with such low pay you end up with the bottom of the
| barrel of people. And in particular the kind of person who is
| there for reasons other than the compensation... think for
| example one of the victims you mentioned or someone adjacent
| to them. Or just replacement theorists, supremacists, and
| garden-variety sociopaths.
|
| [1] https://www.cbp.gov/careers/ofo/pay-benefits/cbpo
| kube-system wrote:
| These things aren't locked down with a strict MDM?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| A control improperly configured and unmaintained is not a
| control, it is a checkbox. Start at page 6.
|
| "Even though ICE's MDM provides visibility to all installed
| applications, ICE did not have a process to periodically
| review, assess, block, and remove risky applications installed
| on devices."
|
| Also didn't prevent folks from installing VPN apps and _TikTok_
| (redacted, but easy to discern from what isn 't).
|
| (i own $day job's acceptable use policy and MDM
| baseline/operation)
| josteink wrote:
| Chinese government social media on official ICE phones.
|
| _Nice._
| intpx wrote:
| i.e. they are really, really lazy
|
| As of two years ago when i dumped fedspace, the agency i was
| tied to had the phones legit mdm locked down and usage was
| actively monitored. It sucked so hard that phone was
| effectively unusable, but when the site youre at makes you
| leave all personal electronics outside the fence, its better
| than nothing.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| OIG Report:
| https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2023-11/O...
| burnerburnson wrote:
| Don't let this blogger find out, but I too have installed apps on
| my employer-provided phone.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-11-07 23:01 UTC)