[HN Gopher] The Uprising of Mesopunk Books
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       The Uprising of Mesopunk Books
        
       Author : simonpure
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2023-11-06 01:19 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bookriot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bookriot.com)
        
       | mock-possum wrote:
       | This seems oddly sparse on details to me - what are the tropes
       | that characterize the genre? Stepped pyramids? Chocolate?
       | Obsidian blades?
       | 
       | The only two recommendations for the genre are one novel, and one
       | collection of short stories that includes other -punk genres
       | 
       | Like does this feel like it's making a mountain out of a
       | molehill?
        
         | svachalek wrote:
         | "Mesopunk builds on the sense of family, community, and the
         | structure of society for the benefit of all." It seems pretty
         | light though, although it's possible based on their examples
         | that this is mostly a Spanish language genre.
        
           | slowmovintarget wrote:
           | By that definition The Fast and the Furious franchise entries
           | qualify.
        
             | skyyler wrote:
             | That's so rad for The Fast and the Furious!
        
         | dchung333 wrote:
         | I genuinely thought this was satire when I clicked on it.
         | Honestly the -punk genre itself to me doesn't really make any
         | sense. There is little to no real connection between punk
         | genres with the notable exception of Cyberpunk and Biopunk and
         | even those don't necessarily have much in common.
         | 
         | Personally I think it's great to see more american culture in
         | novels but I feel like this is a stretch. It requires too much
         | information for a writer to have knowledge of. There's a lot of
         | faults and issues with modern day writing and the publishing
         | industry as whole. But I just think it's getting ridiculous
         | that we're expecting new and upcoming writers to be able to do
         | all of these things in order to fit into possible niche genres
         | that generate little to no profit. Honestly, a part of me is
         | concerned this is a way for publishing companies to silo young
         | and upcoming ethnic writers. I think it's great that we're
         | trying to be more inclusionary but I don't think this is the
         | way to do it.
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | Which books or authors have these problems?
           | 
           | It's interesting that it's almost 'punk' to be anti-punk -
           | anti-inclusionary, etc. People always have reasons, but I
           | think we recognize the form, tone, and conclusions of so many
           | of these arguments.
        
             | rexpop wrote:
             | > it's almost 'punk' to be anti-punk - anti-inclusionary,
             | etc.
             | 
             | I see the most dull, buttoned-up conservatives claim this,
             | but I think they're lying or delusional. Major hegemonic
             | institutions have capitulated only superficially to the
             | trappings and the suits of "punk," or liberalism, and
             | certainly not in the slightest to the threads of
             | Marxism/Socialism that demand a dictatorship of the
             | proletariat, ie worker ownership, ie DIY.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | The argument that conservatism is "punk," delusional as
               | it is, is less based on any superficial capitulation to
               | leftism but the premise that the mainstream power base of
               | modern society (particularly American society) _is_
               | leftist | "wokeist"|feminist|anti-white|anti-Christian,
               | what have you, which they claim places them in the
               | position of underdog rebels fighting against the
               | establishment.
               | 
               | It's a weird phenomenon I've noticed within the right of
               | claiming the identity and language of oppressed and
               | minority groups in order to subvert them and claim
               | whatever political and cultural power they have for their
               | own, despite they themselves still being the most
               | politically powerful and culturally influential
               | demographic by orders of magnitude.
        
               | wolverine876 wrote:
               | Yes, agreed. A couple things I've observed:
               | 
               | People naturally rebel against institutions. To a degree,
               | it's healthy. As you say, a certain form of liberalism is
               | institutionalized.
               | 
               | At the same time, the reactionaries (the right) has
               | highly strategic, effective messaging: As you say they
               | portray themselves as the oppressed; white people in the
               | US are oppressed! A recent poll by CBS or Pew supported
               | that it was a widely held view, at least on the right.
               | 
               | Also, they use the same tactics very frequently, in lost
               | of situations:
               | 
               | First, just follow basic military tactics and stay on the
               | attack; always keep the initiative and remain inside the
               | enemy's OODA loop; force them to respond and reorient
               | rather than plan and attack. You can see their attacks
               | are often completely absurd, but it doesn't matter - they
               | stay on the attack, keep the initiative, force you to
               | respond rather than do anything effective. And their
               | supporters love it, even knowing it's lies - they are
               | winning the fight ('owning the libs').
               | 
               | One way they do it is to find their own biggest weakness
               | (e.g., racism) and accuse the other side of it. Not only
               | does it follow the tactics above but it disorients the
               | enemy, and it floods the public space with so much BS
               | that you can't talk about the topic. Try talking about
               | racism, for example.
        
               | wolverine876 wrote:
               | You don't see how it's cool and rebellious to reject
               | diversity, inclusion, etc.? It's on HN all the time. All
               | the kids love Musk and Rogan. Etc.
        
           | cjohnson318 wrote:
           | I mentally replace "-punk" with "-schtick" and it makes
           | sense. Steam-punk? Steam-schtick, everything is steam
           | powered. Cyber-shtick, usually a bitter critique of consumer
           | culture, with a protagonist that's heavily invested in the
           | internet. Meso-shtick, they put a light veneer of classical
           | Aztec culture on what is basically a detective novel in
           | space.
        
           | krapp wrote:
           | How does it "require too much information" for a writer to
           | have knowledge of their own culture?
           | 
           | No one is putting a gun to "ethnic writers'" heads and making
           | requirements of them, or forcing them to "represent", all
           | that's happening here is that more non-Anglo authors are
           | choosing to write science fiction from other than the default
           | cultural perspective of the genre, and more publishers are
           | publishing it. I don't understand what your objection is.
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | > But I just think it's getting ridiculous that we're
           | expecting new and upcoming writers to be able to do all of
           | these things in order to fit into possible niche genres that
           | generate little to no profit.
           | 
           | Who, pray tell, is "expecting" writers to do this? We're
           | living in the digital content-driven death of monoculture,
           | there's a Cambrian explosion of subgenres and niches out
           | there in the literary world. Writers can write what they want
           | to. There's room for both niche sci-fi such as these works,
           | and a title with more mass appeal, such as _Mexican Gothic._
           | Book websites such as this are just as happy to populate SEO
           | listicles full of affiliate links to advertise these works.
           | Not to mention, it would appear that the YA market is bigger
           | than ever, and there 's much overlap with ethnic writers. And
           | then there's the infinite demand (now with higher interest
           | rates, perhaps less so) from streaming services for new works
           | to adapt. There's been multiple times I've looked up
           | something from a list of, say, AAPI sci-fi/fantasy novels
           | that I've never heard of, only to find out adaptations are
           | being worked on for them. (examples include _Iron Widow_ by
           | Xiran Jay Zhao, _The Poppy War_ by R.F. Huang, and _Jade
           | City_ by Fonda Lee).
           | 
           | Who are you to suggest that the authors behind these works
           | are doing it out of some misprioritization of what the market
           | is looking for? As far as the literary world is concerned, it
           | would seem like it's looking for _everything_.
        
         | uoaei wrote:
         | I feel like this comment is focusing entirely on the aesthetic
         | qualities of -punk cultures. In cyberpunk's heyday it was
         | tacitly understood that the genre was about abuse and loss of
         | power incentivized by the accessibility of incredible
         | technologies, but today it has a more pop veneer of shiny
         | holograms and cyborg badassery. Steampunk seems to focus
         | entirely on what-if worldbuilding at the expense of developing
         | critiques on say rapid modernization in the industrial era. I
         | am not so familiar with mesopunk but I have a feeling it's
         | about more than just slice-of-life narratives in a particular
         | setting.
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | >what are the tropes that characterize the genre? Stepped
         | pyramids? Chocolate? Obsidian blades?
         | 
         | I suspect that the goal of authorship within this genre is
         | expression through authentic cultural identity rather than the
         | employment of a reductionist stereotypes. I mean, cyberpunk is
         | more than orientalist fetishism and 1980s technology, is it
         | not?
         | 
         | >The only two recommendations for the genre are one novel, and
         | one collection of short stories that includes other -punk
         | genres
         | 
         | The article does specifically claim not to provide a
         | comprehensive list of examples, and that the genre is
         | relatively new.
         | 
         | Also, I counted four recommendations: The Daughter of Doctor
         | Moreau by Silvia Moreno-Garcia, A Memory Called Empire by
         | Arkady Martine, The Jade Bones (Book 2 of the Age of the
         | Seventh Sun) by Lani Forbes, The Witch Owl Parliament
         | (Clockwork Curandera #1) by David Bowles and Raul the Third,
         | colour by Stacey Robinson, lettering by Damian Duffy and Once
         | caras del punk: Antologia de relatos by Okami Maresco, Dean
         | Wyes, Hannelore Adler Gailwain, Diego J. Sanudo, Kimara Louise,
         | Vianey Medina, and others. A couple of those are the first
         | books in a series. Is that not enough?
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | To some degree the -punk suffix is just branding. Maybe this
       | genre would be as accurately called Mesofuturism, just as
       | Afrofuturism could perhaps be renamed to Afropunk.
        
       | themadturk wrote:
       | Not seeing from this article how "A Memory Called Empire" fits
       | under Mesopunk at all -- Martine writes from the perspective of a
       | historian of the Byzantine Empire. I would consider adding "The
       | Actual Star" by Monica Byrne, which spans Mesoamerican history
       | for thousands of years on either side of the present day.
        
         | nepeckman wrote:
         | I'm honestly not sure how this was missed, the influence is
         | obvious and the author's bio makes it explicit. By the way, if
         | anyone reading this comment has not read the work in question I
         | highly recommend it. "A Memory Called Empire" is one of the
         | best sci fi books I've read in the past 5 years, and a very
         | fresh take on the well established "galactic empire" trope.
        
       | SeenNotHeard wrote:
       | Would "Grim Fandango" qualify as an ur-Mesopunk video game? It's
       | cut from a similar cloth.
        
       | ribs wrote:
       | Well this is awesome for me; I've been studying Spanish for a few
       | years, and want to read fiction, but jeez, A Hundred Years of
       | Solitude sure is difficult. I love SF and generally want to read
       | works original in the language.
       | 
       | We'll see how the genre pans out, but regardless, I'm happy with
       | those offerings that debut in Spanish.
        
         | ribs wrote:
         | Although the beautiful prose of Marquez comes through even to
         | me, and I doubt such literary style will be found in Mesopunk.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-07 23:00 UTC)