[HN Gopher] The Uprising of Mesopunk Books
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The Uprising of Mesopunk Books
Author : simonpure
Score : 21 points
Date : 2023-11-06 01:19 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (bookriot.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bookriot.com)
| mock-possum wrote:
| This seems oddly sparse on details to me - what are the tropes
| that characterize the genre? Stepped pyramids? Chocolate?
| Obsidian blades?
|
| The only two recommendations for the genre are one novel, and one
| collection of short stories that includes other -punk genres
|
| Like does this feel like it's making a mountain out of a
| molehill?
| svachalek wrote:
| "Mesopunk builds on the sense of family, community, and the
| structure of society for the benefit of all." It seems pretty
| light though, although it's possible based on their examples
| that this is mostly a Spanish language genre.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| By that definition The Fast and the Furious franchise entries
| qualify.
| skyyler wrote:
| That's so rad for The Fast and the Furious!
| dchung333 wrote:
| I genuinely thought this was satire when I clicked on it.
| Honestly the -punk genre itself to me doesn't really make any
| sense. There is little to no real connection between punk
| genres with the notable exception of Cyberpunk and Biopunk and
| even those don't necessarily have much in common.
|
| Personally I think it's great to see more american culture in
| novels but I feel like this is a stretch. It requires too much
| information for a writer to have knowledge of. There's a lot of
| faults and issues with modern day writing and the publishing
| industry as whole. But I just think it's getting ridiculous
| that we're expecting new and upcoming writers to be able to do
| all of these things in order to fit into possible niche genres
| that generate little to no profit. Honestly, a part of me is
| concerned this is a way for publishing companies to silo young
| and upcoming ethnic writers. I think it's great that we're
| trying to be more inclusionary but I don't think this is the
| way to do it.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Which books or authors have these problems?
|
| It's interesting that it's almost 'punk' to be anti-punk -
| anti-inclusionary, etc. People always have reasons, but I
| think we recognize the form, tone, and conclusions of so many
| of these arguments.
| rexpop wrote:
| > it's almost 'punk' to be anti-punk - anti-inclusionary,
| etc.
|
| I see the most dull, buttoned-up conservatives claim this,
| but I think they're lying or delusional. Major hegemonic
| institutions have capitulated only superficially to the
| trappings and the suits of "punk," or liberalism, and
| certainly not in the slightest to the threads of
| Marxism/Socialism that demand a dictatorship of the
| proletariat, ie worker ownership, ie DIY.
| krapp wrote:
| The argument that conservatism is "punk," delusional as
| it is, is less based on any superficial capitulation to
| leftism but the premise that the mainstream power base of
| modern society (particularly American society) _is_
| leftist | "wokeist"|feminist|anti-white|anti-Christian,
| what have you, which they claim places them in the
| position of underdog rebels fighting against the
| establishment.
|
| It's a weird phenomenon I've noticed within the right of
| claiming the identity and language of oppressed and
| minority groups in order to subvert them and claim
| whatever political and cultural power they have for their
| own, despite they themselves still being the most
| politically powerful and culturally influential
| demographic by orders of magnitude.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Yes, agreed. A couple things I've observed:
|
| People naturally rebel against institutions. To a degree,
| it's healthy. As you say, a certain form of liberalism is
| institutionalized.
|
| At the same time, the reactionaries (the right) has
| highly strategic, effective messaging: As you say they
| portray themselves as the oppressed; white people in the
| US are oppressed! A recent poll by CBS or Pew supported
| that it was a widely held view, at least on the right.
|
| Also, they use the same tactics very frequently, in lost
| of situations:
|
| First, just follow basic military tactics and stay on the
| attack; always keep the initiative and remain inside the
| enemy's OODA loop; force them to respond and reorient
| rather than plan and attack. You can see their attacks
| are often completely absurd, but it doesn't matter - they
| stay on the attack, keep the initiative, force you to
| respond rather than do anything effective. And their
| supporters love it, even knowing it's lies - they are
| winning the fight ('owning the libs').
|
| One way they do it is to find their own biggest weakness
| (e.g., racism) and accuse the other side of it. Not only
| does it follow the tactics above but it disorients the
| enemy, and it floods the public space with so much BS
| that you can't talk about the topic. Try talking about
| racism, for example.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| You don't see how it's cool and rebellious to reject
| diversity, inclusion, etc.? It's on HN all the time. All
| the kids love Musk and Rogan. Etc.
| cjohnson318 wrote:
| I mentally replace "-punk" with "-schtick" and it makes
| sense. Steam-punk? Steam-schtick, everything is steam
| powered. Cyber-shtick, usually a bitter critique of consumer
| culture, with a protagonist that's heavily invested in the
| internet. Meso-shtick, they put a light veneer of classical
| Aztec culture on what is basically a detective novel in
| space.
| krapp wrote:
| How does it "require too much information" for a writer to
| have knowledge of their own culture?
|
| No one is putting a gun to "ethnic writers'" heads and making
| requirements of them, or forcing them to "represent", all
| that's happening here is that more non-Anglo authors are
| choosing to write science fiction from other than the default
| cultural perspective of the genre, and more publishers are
| publishing it. I don't understand what your objection is.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| > But I just think it's getting ridiculous that we're
| expecting new and upcoming writers to be able to do all of
| these things in order to fit into possible niche genres that
| generate little to no profit.
|
| Who, pray tell, is "expecting" writers to do this? We're
| living in the digital content-driven death of monoculture,
| there's a Cambrian explosion of subgenres and niches out
| there in the literary world. Writers can write what they want
| to. There's room for both niche sci-fi such as these works,
| and a title with more mass appeal, such as _Mexican Gothic._
| Book websites such as this are just as happy to populate SEO
| listicles full of affiliate links to advertise these works.
| Not to mention, it would appear that the YA market is bigger
| than ever, and there 's much overlap with ethnic writers. And
| then there's the infinite demand (now with higher interest
| rates, perhaps less so) from streaming services for new works
| to adapt. There's been multiple times I've looked up
| something from a list of, say, AAPI sci-fi/fantasy novels
| that I've never heard of, only to find out adaptations are
| being worked on for them. (examples include _Iron Widow_ by
| Xiran Jay Zhao, _The Poppy War_ by R.F. Huang, and _Jade
| City_ by Fonda Lee).
|
| Who are you to suggest that the authors behind these works
| are doing it out of some misprioritization of what the market
| is looking for? As far as the literary world is concerned, it
| would seem like it's looking for _everything_.
| uoaei wrote:
| I feel like this comment is focusing entirely on the aesthetic
| qualities of -punk cultures. In cyberpunk's heyday it was
| tacitly understood that the genre was about abuse and loss of
| power incentivized by the accessibility of incredible
| technologies, but today it has a more pop veneer of shiny
| holograms and cyborg badassery. Steampunk seems to focus
| entirely on what-if worldbuilding at the expense of developing
| critiques on say rapid modernization in the industrial era. I
| am not so familiar with mesopunk but I have a feeling it's
| about more than just slice-of-life narratives in a particular
| setting.
| krapp wrote:
| >what are the tropes that characterize the genre? Stepped
| pyramids? Chocolate? Obsidian blades?
|
| I suspect that the goal of authorship within this genre is
| expression through authentic cultural identity rather than the
| employment of a reductionist stereotypes. I mean, cyberpunk is
| more than orientalist fetishism and 1980s technology, is it
| not?
|
| >The only two recommendations for the genre are one novel, and
| one collection of short stories that includes other -punk
| genres
|
| The article does specifically claim not to provide a
| comprehensive list of examples, and that the genre is
| relatively new.
|
| Also, I counted four recommendations: The Daughter of Doctor
| Moreau by Silvia Moreno-Garcia, A Memory Called Empire by
| Arkady Martine, The Jade Bones (Book 2 of the Age of the
| Seventh Sun) by Lani Forbes, The Witch Owl Parliament
| (Clockwork Curandera #1) by David Bowles and Raul the Third,
| colour by Stacey Robinson, lettering by Damian Duffy and Once
| caras del punk: Antologia de relatos by Okami Maresco, Dean
| Wyes, Hannelore Adler Gailwain, Diego J. Sanudo, Kimara Louise,
| Vianey Medina, and others. A couple of those are the first
| books in a series. Is that not enough?
| Apocryphon wrote:
| To some degree the -punk suffix is just branding. Maybe this
| genre would be as accurately called Mesofuturism, just as
| Afrofuturism could perhaps be renamed to Afropunk.
| themadturk wrote:
| Not seeing from this article how "A Memory Called Empire" fits
| under Mesopunk at all -- Martine writes from the perspective of a
| historian of the Byzantine Empire. I would consider adding "The
| Actual Star" by Monica Byrne, which spans Mesoamerican history
| for thousands of years on either side of the present day.
| nepeckman wrote:
| I'm honestly not sure how this was missed, the influence is
| obvious and the author's bio makes it explicit. By the way, if
| anyone reading this comment has not read the work in question I
| highly recommend it. "A Memory Called Empire" is one of the
| best sci fi books I've read in the past 5 years, and a very
| fresh take on the well established "galactic empire" trope.
| SeenNotHeard wrote:
| Would "Grim Fandango" qualify as an ur-Mesopunk video game? It's
| cut from a similar cloth.
| ribs wrote:
| Well this is awesome for me; I've been studying Spanish for a few
| years, and want to read fiction, but jeez, A Hundred Years of
| Solitude sure is difficult. I love SF and generally want to read
| works original in the language.
|
| We'll see how the genre pans out, but regardless, I'm happy with
| those offerings that debut in Spanish.
| ribs wrote:
| Although the beautiful prose of Marquez comes through even to
| me, and I doubt such literary style will be found in Mesopunk.
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