[HN Gopher] Brits make Amazon, Meta stop using third-party data ...
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       Brits make Amazon, Meta stop using third-party data to undercut
       rivals
        
       Author : LinuxBender
       Score  : 124 points
       Date   : 2023-11-05 17:10 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | tshanmu wrote:
       | sad that el reg is also doing this: "In Amazon's case, the
       | e-commerce giant used vendors' sales figures to decide which
       | items it should sell, and how much to price products to get an
       | edge over everyone else. The internet behemoth also promoted its
       | own products with its Buy Box feature and it further cut into
       | retailers' margins by charging extra costs if they wanted to use
       | Amazon's Prime delivery services, the CMA said.
       | 
       | Now Amazon has committed to doing less of that. "
       | 
       | less of that -> became stop :(
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | Doing what? That's their dry humor. Are you new to reading The
         | Reg? Or the British press in general?
         | 
         | The rest of the article explains in detail all the ways they're
         | being forced to curtail what they've been doing.
        
         | andylynch wrote:
         | The Reg's usual cynical attitude is probably warranted here.
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | So basically, Amazon is not allowed to look at what products are
       | selling well on Amazon before they decide which products to make.
       | However, Amazon is still allowed to sell products, and presumably
       | market research firms are going to give them the same results,
       | more or less. So what did this accomplish, really? It seems like
       | some UK lawmaker is up for reelection and wants a feather in
       | their cap.
        
         | m3047 wrote:
         | As the market makers they have data which is otherwise only
         | available to the sellers themselves. If they have to buy market
         | intelligence from third parties it won't be as good, plus those
         | third parties now have intelligence about what intelligence
         | Amazon is willing to pay for which I'm sure they can sell on to
         | the highest bidder.
        
           | rkagerer wrote:
           | Could the left hand sell said data to market research
           | analysts first, before the right hand buys their reports?
        
             | actionfromafar wrote:
             | The Five Eyes approach! Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook and
             | eBay could all share their customer data with each other.
        
             | avar wrote:
             | Well, yes, and that's not some circumvention of measures
             | like this, but the intent of these sorts of anti-
             | competitive laws.
             | 
             | Amazon can use the same data they've been using all this
             | time, but they must not put themselves in a special
             | position in acquiring that data. If they want to publish
             | their sales data for free or for a price that they
             | themselves pay, that's fine, as long as others can also get
             | the data.
        
               | Arelius wrote:
               | Wouldn't selling it, perhaps not be particularly fair.
               | Like, couldn't they sell it at a price that would eat up
               | all potential profits from the company using the data.
               | But it'd be fine since they could run that segment of the
               | company at a loss to bolster profits in other parts of
               | the company?
        
             | pdpi wrote:
             | At that point, Amazon's data will be up for sale for
             | everybody else to buy too, which fixes the problem.
        
         | andylynch wrote:
         | It strikes me as very similar to the ever present conflict of
         | interest in the securities world between clients and broker-
         | dealers. A business like Amazon's retail one is quite like the
         | latter, and I would be totally unsurprised to see more and more
         | legislative pressure applied to force them to segregate if not
         | choose between their 'agency' and 'prop'-type franchises;
         | especially outside the US. Stuff like the EU's DMA are just
         | first steps; in securities trading a lot of this stuff sails
         | into criminal rather than civil law.
        
       | skizm wrote:
       | What products or services does Meta sell on FB marketplace?
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | Not only does the article cover this, there's links to further
         | coverage about Meta's involvement in the "more context"
         | section.
        
       | richwater wrote:
       | Every single grocery store uses data to curate and prioritize
       | house brand products.
       | 
       | Somehow this is lauded in the food industry, but demonized in the
       | tech industry.
        
         | andylynch wrote:
         | It's not lauded. Suppliers hate the power the big supermarkets
         | have over them. But stores' data is probably down the list
         | after the payment terms they dictate, _not being paid_ , and
         | payment for in-store product placement etc
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Suppliers are welcome to get into the dirty business of
           | dealing with the retail public for 2% profit margins.
        
       | mcenedella wrote:
       | Dumb government. Higher prices and less variety for you.
       | 
       | Why can't they just let adults buy and sell the way they want to?
        
         | logifail wrote:
         | > Why can't they just let adults buy and sell the way they want
         | to?
         | 
         | Perhaps we should all go and (re-)read the history of Standard
         | Oil just to refresh our memories of what it looks like if we
         | were to let that happen?
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil_Co._of_New_Jersey...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Successors_of_Standard_Oil
        
           | mcenedella wrote:
           | You're arguing that govt action in 1911 effectively
           | alleviated oil and gas industry influence on the economy and
           | politics?
           | 
           | Why then did John D Rockefeller (correctly) advise "buy
           | Standard Oil stock" on hearing the news?
           | https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/20/business/us-v-
           | microsoft-t...
        
         | EliRivers wrote:
         | _Why can't they just let adults buy and sell the way they want
         | to?_
         | 
         | Would be nice but Amazon are quite keen on not letting that
         | happen.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Amazon has never stopped anyone from putting up a website and
           | shipping things to customers.
        
             | EliRivers wrote:
             | They certainly have stopped people doing it at prices
             | cheaper than they sell through Amazon. They're running a
             | protection racket.
        
           | mcenedella wrote:
           | How's that? Amazon is lobbying for legislation to prevent you
           | from purchasing from someone?
        
       | r_thambapillai wrote:
       | There's a really interesting analogy here with the LLM platforms
       | that both are a vendor to companies that use their APIs, but also
       | potentially compete with those companies as well as they evolve
       | their offering over time. It would be interesting to see if this
       | kind of regulation could be applied in that context as well.
        
         | Dudester230602 wrote:
         | This is why I don't understand new LLM start-ups. They hope
         | their low-hanging integration or LLM-flavor-of-the-day fruits
         | do not attract attention long enough.
        
       | ukoki wrote:
       | The law just needs to be: You can be the platform or you can be
       | on the platform, but not both.
        
         | throw__away7391 wrote:
         | I agree. There are similar laws for many other industries
         | already that either prohibit or put operational restrictions
         | such that their "on the platform" subsidiaries are on equal
         | footing with competition.
         | 
         | Enron was breaking this principle when their energy traders
         | would call up a power plant they also owned and ask for an
         | unscheduled outage. I don't remember if this was specifically
         | illegal in this case, but I used to have to take an online
         | class once a year to remind me not to share any non-public data
         | with marketing in one such regulated industry and that there
         | would be serious consequences if this rule was broken.
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | Yup. A complete ban on in-house brands for anyone operating a
         | marketplace.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | Including grocery stores?
        
         | happytiger wrote:
         | Ok, honest question. Wouldn't this just encourage conglomerate
         | interests to capture the value outside the company? Seems like
         | a logical place for a large PE funded wedge company if the
         | opportunity was made available like that. Going from one player
         | to two is very possible if we do something simplistic -- it's a
         | big juicy target and a land grab if it's simply divested. How
         | can we insure a healthy diversity instead of the immediate
         | reconsolidating that would come with a simple separation of
         | interests?
         | 
         | I am for these changes, just asking the question I honestly
         | worry about.
        
         | Osiris wrote:
         | Same should go for internet.
         | 
         | You can own the infrastructure or you can provide the service,
         | but not both.
        
           | spacebanana7 wrote:
           | The distinction between platform and product is much hazier
           | in software compared to physical industries.
           | 
           | For example, it's taken for granted that most personal
           | computing platforms have built in PDF viewers, but this
           | wasn't always the case and used to be a distinct product
           | category (and still is to some extent). Similar for media
           | players, some networking software, and spreadsheet apps.
           | 
           | Should Cloudflare be allowed to offer reverse CDN services
           | for uploading content? Or would that unfairly compete with
           | companies like Mux?
           | 
           | (Entertaining the notion that Mux is built on CF)
        
       | Osiris wrote:
       | How would something like this be enforceable?
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-05 23:01 UTC)