[HN Gopher] Dengue rates plunged after release of lab-altered mo...
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       Dengue rates plunged after release of lab-altered mosquitoes
        
       Author : cxrlosfx
       Score  : 176 points
       Date   : 2023-11-05 16:24 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dw.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dw.com)
        
       | gcatalfamo wrote:
       | Starfield companions would've frown upon this solution.
       | 
       | More seriously though: 10 years is a long time, this is super
       | interesting but one would wonder if in such time other limiting
       | dengue factors might've arose.
        
       | rekttrader wrote:
       | These are dangerous experiments as we've seen with the accidental
       | release of covid.
       | 
       | But it's fair to say America has funded these types of
       | experiments for almost 70 years.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Big_Buzz
        
       | henearkr wrote:
       | Wolbachia is "healthy gut microbiota" but for mosquitoes.
       | 
       | It prevents their infection by many viruses.
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | It seems that it shortens their lives, so it's not healthy for
         | them.
        
           | gehwartzen wrote:
           | long life riddled with parasites or somewhat shorter life
           | sans parasites. I feel like they would be cool with it
        
             | smt88 wrote:
             | Mosquitoes aren't affected by dengue. It's a human disease.
             | 
             | Even if they were affected by it, they don't feel pain or
             | have emotions, so they'd "choose" to live longer.
        
       | firewolf34 wrote:
       | This Wolbachia bacteria is really something else. It seems to
       | have a massive set of effects on a variety of organisms, directly
       | impacting the way they reproduce, or even the way which sex they
       | develop into. Remarkable.
       | 
       | As some sort of bonus it also prevents the host from developing
       | other viral diseases in the case of mosquitos, I guess because
       | it's a parasite, so it's advantageous for it to do so? Wild
       | little thing. Does a lot.
       | 
       | >"Computational models predict that introducing Wolbachia strains
       | into natural populations will reduce pathogen transmission and
       | reduce overall disease burden.[64] An example includes a life-
       | shortening Wolbachia that can be used to control dengue virus and
       | malaria by eliminating the older insects that contain more
       | parasites. Promoting the survival and reproduction of younger
       | insects lessens selection pressure for evolution of
       | resistance.[65][66]"
       | 
       | >"In addition, some Wolbachia strains are able to directly reduce
       | viral replication inside the insect. For dengue they include
       | wAllbB and wMelPop with Aedes aegypti, wMel with Aedes
       | albopictus.[67] and Aedes aegypti.[68]"
       | 
       | [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolbachia]
        
       | indigo0086 wrote:
       | So all benefits, no negatives?
        
         | vGPU wrote:
         | I can't help but feel like I've heard this before.
        
           | bradleybuda wrote:
           | The great thing about technology is that it's possible to
           | have new things or ways of life that are strictly better than
           | the ones they replace! We can move beyond the efficient
           | frontier; progress is non-zero-sum.                 * Golden
           | Rice       * Unleaded gas       * HCFCs (over CFCs)       *
           | etc
        
           | dan-robertson wrote:
           | How often do you hear about the downsides of malaria
           | eradication in the United States (probably spraying most of
           | Florida with DDT would be one...)? What about screwworm fly
           | elimination in the United States and parts of Central
           | America? That program is much more similar to the thing
           | described in this article than spraying every puddle with
           | insecticide.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Afaik, DDT continues to be accepted for malarial mosquito
             | control; DDT as an agricultural pesticide is what got a
             | worldwide ban.
        
       | somenameforme wrote:
       | I find these sort of things somewhat odd. Dengue is extremely
       | unpleasant, but as the article mentions it has a 99.98% survival
       | rate in spite of being predominantly spread in some of the most
       | impoverished areas in the world. Wiki [1] gives even better
       | figures than the article which yield a 99.99% survival rate, and
       | a total hospitalization rate of 0.13%.
       | 
       | Unforeseen consequences are a thing, and nature can evolve in
       | difficult to predict ways. For instance one of the big early
       | arguments for GMO crops is that it'd enable us to reduce our
       | overall usage of herbicides. The main modification was glyphosate
       | resistance, and since glyphosate was otherwise highly toxic to
       | all plants, it was thought that just a bit of it would be enough
       | to take care of what used to require much more herbicide.
       | 
       | And it lived up to this promise at first. But nature responded by
       | naturally evolving glyphosate resistant weeds, and farmers
       | responded by just spraying more of it, and more regularly, and
       | we're now using more herbicide/acre than ever before. In 1991
       | (just prior to GMO crops starting to really kick off), we were
       | using a rate of 1.18 units of herbicide per acre. By 2000 that
       | had declined to 1.06. "Now" (2014) we're up to 2.02 and rapidly
       | increasing. [2]
       | 
       | So many things (related to interacting with nature in various
       | forms) seem to be being done under the assumption of a stationary
       | target, when nature is anything but.
       | 
       | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_fever
       | 
       | [2] - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5044953/
        
         | foota wrote:
         | I believe conditions like this cause impact to people's
         | livelihood by putting them out of action.
         | 
         | Caring for the sick also has economic costs.
        
         | c_o_n_v_e_x wrote:
         | Presumably, the 99% survival rate is for the first infection.
         | Follow on infections of dengue are increasingly dangerous.
        
         | Izkata wrote:
         | Dengue is the poster child for antibody dependent enhancement:
         | The first infection is typically pretty mild, but there's 4
         | Dengue strains and a second infection with one of the other 3
         | is much more severe.
         | 
         | The original vaccines for these had to be scrapped because they
         | had the same effect, though current ones work against all 4
         | strains.
        
       | bedobi wrote:
       | This is hardly the place for this kind of discussion but I can't
       | help but comment on this.
       | 
       | Countless species are already going extinct all the time, both
       | known to us and completely unknown to us, and both "naturally"
       | and from human impact, and no one really cares.
       | 
       | Here's a rare case of a species that there is very good reason to
       | deliberately get rid of, and suddenly people care and object, a
       | lot!?
       | 
       | Of course there's justifiable skepticism and a long, sorry
       | history of unintended consequences of introducing, eradicating or
       | in any way modifying a species or its behavior, but seriously,
       | read up on it, this is not one of those species, pretty much
       | everyone who knows anything about it (including otherwise very
       | environmentally minded people who as a rule would never, ever
       | agree with deliberately eradicating anything) agrees it can be
       | eradicated with no meaningful impact on the ecosystem. (and yes,
       | that includes even the armchair criticism from cynical
       | misanthropes who consider human deaths resulting from this
       | species a good thing "because humans are bad for the environment"
       | - while these mosquitoes do cause a lot of human deaths, the
       | environmental "benefit" of those deaths are completely
       | meaningless in the grand scheme of things)
        
         | Simon_ORourke wrote:
         | > yes, that includes even the armchair criticism from cynical
         | misanthropes who consider human deaths resulting from this
         | species a good thing
         | 
         | If ever there was a species under no threat whatsoever it's
         | those guys. I'm all for eradicate and move on, nature will be
         | bound to throw something else at humanity so go for the small
         | wins and to heck with it.
        
         | somenameforme wrote:
         | It's the means. If people wanted to look for ways to help
         | reduce stagnant water, as a means of reducing mosquito
         | populations, I suspect exactly 0 people would object. But
         | releasing billions of mosquitos with a bacteria and hoping
         | there's no natural evolution to it, and everything continues to
         | work as planned indefinitely...? There's more than sufficient
         | reason for skepticism there.
         | 
         | Beyond this, I would also consider the arrogance of the
         | present. When you look back at stupid decisions made in times
         | past, it's not like they just blindly rushed into them (well
         | not always at least). They certainly assessed them using the
         | latest knowledge available at the time, and then moved forward
         | after it was deemed safe and effective. It just turns out that
         | we're quite frequently wrong on such assessments, and so things
         | that fail in 'obvious' ways only look obvious with the benefit
         | of hindsight. It's like how NASA can lose a half a billion
         | dollar probe in modern times because nobody bothered to ensure
         | that all systems were using the same unit systems. [1]
         | 
         | Take yourself a decade in the future and imagine reading about
         | these mosquitoes gaining, at the minimum, a resistance to the
         | bacteria being used. Would it really surprise you? Or would you
         | be thinking something more along the lines of, 'Wow, how could
         | they not see that coming?'
         | 
         | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
        
           | epistasis wrote:
           | Are these the concerns of people who study ecosystems deeply,
           | and dedicate their lives to environmental protection through
           | understanding it deeply?
           | 
           | Or are they the concerns of people who don't know much,
           | though they care deeply? I find these folks often pursue
           | actions with great passion that are effectively neutral or
           | sometimes even detrimental to the environment.
           | 
           | You say that most mistakes of the past have been made after
           | careful consideration, but I do not believe that is the case
           | at all. Most disasters, like the dumping of chemicals from
           | semiconducting manufacturing in Silicon Valley that created
           | so many superfund sites, was just carelessness and complete
           | lack of concern or study.
        
           | mullingitover wrote:
           | I don't think OP is talking about the bacteria-inoculated
           | mosquitoes, they're taking about eradicating the species
           | completely with something like a CRISPR gene drive.
           | 
           | I am _passionately_ in favor of this.
        
         | erredois wrote:
         | On this case of the Aedes Aegypti in the Americas, should not
         | even be a big consideration whether to exterminate or not,
         | since it's an invasive species from Asia.
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | I think part of this is that the idea can be unfamiliar and so
         | people try to come to random conclusions or raise concerns that
         | have already been considered (or they just disagree with the
         | prevailing view). The search term for this kind of thing is
         | 'planned extinction' and it perhaps won't surprise you to hear
         | that A. aegypti is the most common candidate. Another case is
         | the (new world) screwworm fly which has been eliminated from
         | North America and most of Central America by the United States
         | (it being easier to try to control spread through Panama than
         | from Mexico). There was a New Yorker article posted here a
         | while ago about the elimination efforts. I'm not sure farmers
         | in Colombia or the rest of South America would mind much if the
         | species were totally eradicated.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | Los Angeles is doing something similar with fruit flies. [1]
       | They're releasing infertile males, in the hopes that they
       | outcompete males of a non-native species that could threaten the
       | agricultural industry.
       | 
       | 1: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/millions-of-
       | steril...
        
       | e63f67dd-065b wrote:
       | This is great news. Dengue was a constant problem in my home
       | country of Malaysia, and remains a problem to this day. I still
       | remember all the public education campaigns about it that I saw
       | when I was young (random ads on TV about making sure there's no
       | stagnant water, seeking medical help if you notice <symptoms>,
       | etc), I'm very glad that there are easily implementable solutions
       | to these problems.
       | 
       | As a side note, I wonder why this kind of research is not more
       | popular in university labs of tropical countries. Malaysia,
       | Singapore, India, etc are home to plenty of university labs that
       | should have the expertise and motivation to do this kind of
       | thing, but they're really dropping the ball if they're not
       | working on it right now. Every time I read about new mosquito
       | fighting innovations it's out of an American or European lab, far
       | away from where it's most impactful.
       | 
       | Is it a problem of funding? Somehow the Malaysian government
       | funds less mosquito disease research than the US? Political will?
       | I would hope that the health ministries of tropical countries are
       | willing to throw some money at the problem. Institutional
       | knowledge? Plenty of the professors are educated in
       | Australia/UK/US, so that can't be it. Coverage? Western media
       | covers western labs, and don't notice when labs elsewhere do the
       | same thing?
        
         | melagonster wrote:
         | Malaysia, Singapore and Australia did experiment in field,
         | there are not many countries accomplished this. so they did it.
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | Maybe it's easier to be releasing them somewhere else? Oxford
         | based Oxitec also have mosquitos to counter Dengue but
         | genetically modified rather than with Wolbachia.
         | https://www.wired.com/story/genetically-engineered-mosquitoe...
        
         | sohkamyung wrote:
         | Here are some links to research on using Wolbachia in Malaysia
         | and Singapore:
         | 
         | [1] Wolbachia Malaysia [ https://imr.nih.gov.my/wolbachia/ ]
         | 
         | [2] Singapore NEA Wolbachia info [
         | https://www.nea.gov.sg/corporate-functions/resources/researc...
         | ]
         | 
         | [3] A 2021 news article on Wolbachia in Malaysia [
         | https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/malaysia-fight-dengue-m...
         | ]
        
       | hzay wrote:
       | Currently down with dengue. Wish they'd put these good mosquitos
       | where I live!
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-05 23:01 UTC)