[HN Gopher] Microsoft is retiring Visual Studio for Mac in 2024
___________________________________________________________________
Microsoft is retiring Visual Studio for Mac in 2024
Author : kaypee901
Score : 121 points
Date : 2023-11-03 20:14 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (visualstudio.microsoft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (visualstudio.microsoft.com)
| gberger wrote:
| Not to be confused with Visual Studio Code, the text editor,
| which will remain supported.
| rco8786 wrote:
| > the text editor
|
| This is...not a super accurate way to describe VSCode
| outside1234 wrote:
| This was how the Visual Studio crowd inside of Microsoft
| described it until VSCode basically destroyed their business.
| :)
| phillipcarter wrote:
| I wouldn't use the word destroyed - Visual Studio (Windows)
| has been a billion-dollar ARR business for a long time, and
| likely still is. The trajectory is certainly not in favor
| of it, but there's an utterly massive number of enterprise
| .NET and C++ devs on Windows who will be using it for a
| long time.
| umeshunni wrote:
| The crazy thing is that - I worked on VS 10 years before
| you did - and it was at a (near) billion $ ARR back then.
| So, it looks like it has been a flat business for a long
| time.
| phillipcarter wrote:
| Oh, undoubtedly. When I was there the writing was on the
| wall -- it's got a decade or two more life to it, but
| it's long peaked on the ARR curve.
| uxp8u61q wrote:
| That's what happens to mature products. Not everything is
| a brand new startup that grows 1000% every quarter.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| It's more that Microsoft lost the cross platform war.
| .NET lost and electron won. They even use it (or their
| own WebView knockoff) for their own products now. So
| there's no more need to give .NET away. They just milk
| the niche market that still depends on it.
| thesuperbigfrog wrote:
| >> the niche market that still depends on it.
|
| That "niche market" likely pulls in billions of dollars
| from enterprises.
| benbristow wrote:
| Indeed. To use the new C# devkit in Visual Studio Code
| you need a Visual Studio/MSDN subscription too.
|
| JetBrains Rider's a bigger competitor but even then (at
| least at my org.) most devs have a Visual Studio
| Professional/Enterprise subscription as a backup.
| notpushkin wrote:
| There are alternatives though. I've heard somebody hooked
| up Samsung's open source C# debugger, for example.
| atonse wrote:
| I don't know how good VS Code is now (with regards to all
| the features VS had) mainly cuz I don't code in .NET, but I
| still miss the powerful tools from VS that I had nearly 20
| years ago (for C#), in Ruby, Elixir, etc (and some other
| languages).
|
| The amazing debugging, stepping through, etc that Eclipse
| and Visual Studio has, were leaps and bounds more superior
| to all the stuff that was lacking in the simple text
| editors.
|
| LSP has helped tremendously. And there are similar
| debugging protocols. It's kind of getting there, but again,
| nearly 20 years ago, I could start up a project and hit the
| debugger immediately without fiddling around with settings
| and googling around.
|
| And I feel the lack of such good tooling has enabled a
| whole generation of "print string" debugging (which I
| totally do now) because we simply can't easily run and step
| through.
|
| Is this other people's experience? Hopefully the debug
| world is better in Go/Rust land than it is in Elixir/Ruby
| land.
| notpushkin wrote:
| > but again, nearly 20 years ago, I could start up a
| project and hit the debugger immediately without fiddling
| around with settings and googling around
|
| It's working in VS Code now, too. For popular languages,
| you just have to install the respective plugin (only
| TypeScript is builtin), but it's just a click on the
| prompt. I've been doing lots of Python debugging and it's
| pretty much a seamless experience.
| atonse wrote:
| Excellent. I remember C# support for .NET Core was really
| solid even 6-7 years ago.
|
| So for a large number of use cases, they have to be
| talking about retiring VS eventually too.
|
| This multi-process architecture (with language servers,
| debug servers, remote SSH mode, etc probably making much
| better use of multiple cores has to be easier to migrate
| to)
| notpushkin wrote:
| Yeah. Remote mode is a killer feature IMO (sadly the
| official implementation is closed source, and there's no
| support for Docker in unofficial ones - although
| coincidentally I'm working on this)
| edgyquant wrote:
| Properly navigating through python modules (clicking
| through to the module source) doesn't even work nicely in
| VSCode (even with the base python extension installed) so
| I don't have high hopes for debugging being any better.
| VSCode is amazing for typescript though, and I had great
| success doing C++ and Rust. Python seems lacking in my
| experience though
| notpushkin wrote:
| > Properly navigating through python modules (clicking
| through to the module source) doesn't even work nicely
|
| That's weird, it works for me just fine.
| somewhereoutth wrote:
| In Node/React/JS land with VS Code I mostly pray for rare
| function names (miss-spelt words for such names are
| gold!). There are definitely some things I miss about the
| Java ecosystem.
|
| But then I debug with console.log (nee
| System.out.println) so probably I'm some sort of
| neanderthal.
| irrational wrote:
| Have you tried JetBrains IDEs? I use IntelliJ for
| everything from database work to web development to
| Python coding and more.
| swatcoder wrote:
| It's in the same feature family as emacs, Sublime, Notepad++,
| etc -- all of which are called text editors.
|
| They all have extension architectures that expand on what
| that means, but they all cover the same kind of use cases and
| they all stop short of traditional Integrated Development
| Environments.
|
| Unless you're saying that none of the others should be called
| text editors either (a daunting uphill fight against
| history), it's an exactly accurate description.
| jupp0r wrote:
| They cover all use cases of traditional IDEs, but you need
| to edit files instead of clicking through endless menu
| hierarchies. They also don't tell you what your compiler or
| build system should be.
| hateful wrote:
| VSCode is far superior to the actual Visual Studio in so
| many ways. It's definitely closer to Visual Studio than it
| is to Notepad++.
|
| On personal note: my company pays for Visual Studio
| Ultimate + Jetbrains for me and I rarely open it these days
| and use VSCode 99% of the time.
| globular-toast wrote:
| Yeah, it's superior to Visual Studio because it's more
| like Emacs, a text editor.
|
| Emacs users saw the benefits of a single text editor a
| long, long time ago. Back when I started programming it
| was common for people to use a different IDE per
| language. There was VS, Eclipse, Dreamweaver etc. I
| thought that was insane. It's been funny seeing people
| finally realise the same a decade later.
| no_wizard wrote:
| counterpoint:
|
| JetBrains IDEs are the sweetspot between absolute single
| purpose IDEs (like Eclipse) and text editors that require
| plugins to be useful (broadly speaking).
|
| I am all in on JetBrains, to be perfectly transparent,
| but I have yet to see anything come close to the seamless
| experience I've had with their IDEs
| wkat4242 wrote:
| I don't agree. Visual Studio Code lacks the actual
| 'visual' part, like the form builder.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| That is a good point about the name, never thought about
| it. And if I ever wanted to write gui code that only
| worked in windows, I guess I'd consider it? But that has
| never been a use case for me, and everything else about
| vscode is better.
| SirMaster wrote:
| What can VS Code do that Visual Studio can't?
| thesuperbigfrog wrote:
| >> What can VS Code do that Visual Studio can't?
|
| Run natively on Linux:
|
| https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/setup/linux
| galangalalgol wrote:
| Set breakpoints and step through rust code running
| remotely on a microcontroller?
| thesuavefactor wrote:
| Try publishing a .net webforms project in vs code. Or
| jetbrains Rider for that matter.
| this_steve_j wrote:
| The gauntlet has been thrown! I respectfully decline the
| challenge, as I am no longer a gentleman of the ViewState
| society.
| philippejara wrote:
| And so is emacs, but nobody has an issue calling it a
| text editor.
| booleandilemma wrote:
| For Windows development Visual Studio is still more
| powerful. People who have developed solely on Macs or
| juniors who started in 2020 with only web dev experience
| won't understand and they're usually the ones that have
| the "VS Code is better" opinion.
| ghshephard wrote:
| I think the point at which you have integrated intelligent
| breakpoints, seamless in situ data inspection, call stack
| tracking, proper lexical scoping of variables, etc, etc..
| you've left the realm of "text editor"
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Does Emacs also have text editor?
| ArchOversight wrote:
| No, it's an operating system. Sadly they left out the
| text editor.
| sarahlwalks wrote:
| There actually is a text editor in there somewhere at
| least if you believe some of the MIT neckbeards. But you
| have to sort of tease it out with the proper meta key
| what-have-yous
| galangalalgol wrote:
| You can install vi into emacs, and vi is the best text
| editor.
| alexvoda wrote:
| You can however use a facsimile of Vim called Evil.
| jrgd wrote:
| i once had a fax machine running on emac
| coliveira wrote:
| No, but some people insist in use it for this purpose.
| dist-epoch wrote:
| It does, but it's a pretty mediocre one.
| a_wild_dandan wrote:
| Categorizing VS Code as akin to Microsoft Word or Google
| Docs seems...profoundly weird and more confusing than
| elucidating. I'm gonna stick with "IDE", personally.
|
| [EDIT] It seems folks won't classify Word/GDocs as "text
| editors" due to their additional features. Great point! I'm
| getting deja vu...
| skyyler wrote:
| Microsoft Word and Google Docs are _Word Processors_
| which are technically for editing text but are now much
| closer to desktop publishing software, especially with
| the emphasis on styling and graphics.
|
| emacs, vim, and VSCode are _Source Code Editors_ which
| are a type of text editor. You can make a source code
| editor into an IDE by adding integrated compiling and
| debugging tools.
| layer8 wrote:
| Word and Google Docs are not text editors [0], they are
| word processors [1].
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_editor
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_processor_program
| a_wild_dandan wrote:
| Yep. I _didn 't_ call Word/Docs/Code text editors, and
| all for the same reason. That's the joke. Guess I was too
| cute by half.
| eviks wrote:
| That would indeed be weird given the fact that the text
| editor does not edit rich text like Word does
| rco8786 wrote:
| What on earth would VSCode need to add to be classified as
| an IDE? It does so much more than Sublime/Notepad++/eMacs
| out of the box. It's not even close.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| The line has become fuzzy now that vim has solid LSP
| support for auto complete and highlights errors in real
| time.
| swatcoder wrote:
| Vertical _integration_ with the toolchain, for one. Most
| text editor extensions rely on least common denominator
| integration with tooling through an adapter layer like
| LSP.
|
| And that works pretty darn well, but struggles to
| _integrate_ all of the toolchain 's _development_
| opportunities into the workspace _environment_.
|
| Horizontal _integration_ across workspace modules would
| help too. Most text editor extensions rely on a least
| common denominator UX language through command palettes
| and button arrays and human-editable config files.
|
| And that also works pretty darn well, but struggles to
| _integrate_ all of the workspace _environment_ 's
| features into coordinated _development_ workflows.
|
| There is no slight being made against VS Code to say that
| it's not the same as a more fully _integrated development
| environment_. It 's a very powerful tool in itself,
| capable of meeting most developer's needs and is far more
| _extensible_ and _adaptable_ than IDE 's aim for.
| gustavus wrote:
| > It's in the same feature family as emacs,
|
| I resent that emacs is a full on OS that just happens to
| have a less than stellar text editor.
| belfthrow wrote:
| From the crappy bolt on things required to make it anywhere
| close to a decent IDE, it is essentially vim with tons of
| incompatible plugins that continually conflict one and other.
| fshr wrote:
| Can you provide an example of a crappy bolt on or a set of
| incompatible plugins? I've not had that experience and I've
| used it for six or seven languages.
| wiseowise wrote:
| Calva and vim plugin. Anything that adds custom
| shortcuts.
| LoganDark wrote:
| It is a text editor. People treat it as an IDE, because it
| can be made that way with plugins, but fundamentally it is a
| text editor.
| a_wild_dandan wrote:
| A fresh VS Code install has all the usual IDE tools I need
| for my job (editing, debugging, symbol parsing, etc). Is it
| still not an IDE? Suppose it was missing something for
| someone else's workflow. What if we bundled all the
| extensions needed for most developers into the install? Is
| it an IDE then? We just need less modularity/more bloat at
| install?
|
| Distinguishing VS Code from IDEs seems so forced and
| unintuitive to me. What's the point?
| jacurtis wrote:
| I've always described VSCode as a text editor with IDE
| capabilities. I would personally call it a text editor
| and not an IDE though. If you do a fresh install of
| VSCode you may notice that almost everything is a plugin.
| Even basic language support for popular languages like
| python are technically plugins. Everything you add from
| there are as well. A true vanilla install of VSCode is
| truly a text editor.
|
| However it was designed really well in that it has a lot
| of good integrations which make plugins feel almost
| integrated and natural. Not to mention the plugin process
| is the smoothest i've seen of any text editor so for many
| people it is transparent, they just think they are
| enabling features and don't realize they are actually
| just downloading 3,000 plugins.
|
| I'm not trying to argue a no-true-scottsman here. If
| people want to call it an IDE they can.
|
| But download something from JetBrains and give that a go
| or something like xCode or the real Visual Studio and
| you'll see how deeply "integrated" it is, so that it
| feels like a full featured developer environment from the
| start, hence the IDE moniker.
|
| There's nothing wrong with VSCode. You can do your whole
| job in it i'm sure. But compare it to something like
| JetBrains and it is really really hard to put them truly
| next to eachother. With enough customization you can get
| VSCode close, but it sure isn't like that without a lot
| of customization and plugins from 100 different
| developers with varying levels of support and
| reliability.
|
| Fwiw, the Wikipedia page for Visual Studio calls it an
| IDE and the wikipedia page for VSCode calls it a "source
| code editor". So maybe as a "source code editor", thats
| where it bridges the gap between IDE and Text Editor.
| irrational wrote:
| It is not integrated, so it is not an IDE. Text editor seems
| like the best description for it.
| IshKebab wrote:
| It does have an integrated debugger, build systems, code
| intelligence, refactoring tools, and version control.
|
| What other things need to be integrated before it can be
| blessed as an IDE?
| jug wrote:
| With Microsoft backtracking on their Visual Studio non-Code
| designer interface and no longer offering it for modern Windows
| apps (WinUI 3)... Honestly... Is this a long term plan to just
| sunset Visual Studio?
|
| It always felt like it to me. From the get go. But they deny
| it. Still, Visual Studio is so heavy, feels sluggish, written
| in WPF, and not from an era of modern, plugin-based software
| development.
|
| Visual Studio Code also offers many features VS don't. Oh, and
| it perfectly debugged Python code on Windows for me (VS somehow
| failed to attach its debugger to Python.exe) and auto-detected
| venv's for me from the mere folder structure, none of which
| Visual Studio did.
|
| Code feels like the .NET Core of Microsoft editors to me. Not
| only new thing for cross-platform development, but the next
| thing for Windows development too. Just like .NET Core.
|
| Sure, Code still miss things but those only feel like
| extensions away at best. A far better and less monolithic
| design. Now, if we could only have it be WebView2 based rather
| than Electron on Windows and cut 50% RAM use right off the
| bat...
| alexvoda wrote:
| The WPF version of VS has supported many plugins from the
| start (2010). The previous version (2003-2008) also supported
| plugins but not sure how extensively. Before that VS was just
| the name for a suite of different tools (Visual C++, Visual
| Basic, Visual InterDev and a few others).
| biugbkifcjk wrote:
| As someone that works with a lot of different languages -
| vscode has been amazing. I feel its inevitable that a
| majority of the plugins I rely on start requiring some sort
| of subscription - which I'm not looking forward too.
| usrusr wrote:
| Denial might be as much a show for the motivation of the team
| that keeps maintaining the relic for some large old cash cow
| customers as it perhaps is for the outside world. Old
| customers that are perfectly locked in across the entire
| product portfolio. But if VS suddenly disappeared, all the
| other business they have with those customers would suddenly
| be open for reconsideration as well.
| verdverm wrote:
| Better link: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-
| us/visualstudio/mac/what-happ...
| yodon wrote:
| Jet brains Rider is a great replacement (including Copilot
| integration)
| lizardking wrote:
| Seconded. It's my daily driver for back end .net development on
| mac. I've experimented with the new vs code extensions, but the
| experience still isn't as smooth as using a proper IDE.
| Yabood wrote:
| Agreed. Been using for a few years and have zero complaints.
| leosanchez wrote:
| If you are using linux it is the only solution.
| biglyburrito wrote:
| JetBrains Rider on macOS is almost as good as Visual Studio
| 2022 on Windows. And JetBrains DataGrip is by far the best
| database IDE on macOS or Windows; going back from it to SQL
| Server Management Studio (SSMS) recently was painful.
| sumedh wrote:
| SSMS has a unique feature where if you run multiple queries,
| it will show the output of all those queries below at the
| same time, you cannot do that with Datagrip.
| bdcravens wrote:
| SSMS also has a number of excellent integrations with SQL
| Server itself. Overall, DataGrip is my tool of choice, but
| I occasionally boot up Windows in Parallels when I need
| some of the SSMS-specific tools.
| ozim wrote:
| SSMS has unique feature of starting away too long even on
| my dev laptop.
|
| Visual Studio starts faster not much more though noticeable
| but these two have same base.
|
| So just wonder why is that or it is just my imagination.
| wredue wrote:
| Man I wish DataGrip would improve their Oracle database
| capability. I really just hate toad so much.
| snapetom wrote:
| 10 years ago, at a job interview, the manager asked me what IDE
| I wanted. I can't remember what I was using at the time, but he
| asked if I wanted PHPStorm. I said I had never used it. He
| said, "It'll change your life," and it did. Been a hard core
| Jetbrains Kool-Aid drinker ever since that job.
| ZanyProgrammer wrote:
| I assume they always kept it shitty as to not cannibalize VS
| Code, which does get a lot of use (obviously it's very popular).
| If you ever used it you'd see that it doesn't feel like normal
| Windows VS, and it doesn't really feel like a good native Mac app
| either.
| theandrewbailey wrote:
| What? Isn't Visual Studio a paid product (aside from the
| Community edition)? VS Code is free, so if anything, they would
| keep VS Code as the shitty product.
| babypuncher wrote:
| Visual Studio for Mac was also free. It also wasn't developed
| in house, it's just Xamarin Studio with a new name.
|
| I think they are killing it for two reasons:
|
| * Cross-platform .NET development on VS Code has gotten very
| good.
|
| * JetBrains Rider is even better, especially for
| professionals, and becoming very hard to compete with.
| LoganDark wrote:
| > if anything, they would keep VS Code as the shitty product.
|
| Getting VS Code as popular as it is today was the strategy.
| For that, it needed to not be shitty.
|
| The enshittification only began after they took over the
| market
| babypuncher wrote:
| This is because it wasn't originally a visual studio product.
| This is just the name they gave Xamarin Studio after the
| company was acquired by Microsoft.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| > I assume they always kept it shitty as to not cannibalize VS
| Code,
|
| What a strange take. Why wouldn't they rather not create it in
| the first place if they were so worried about cannibalizing
| their free product by ... another free product?
| dcgudeman wrote:
| I agree it is strange take but unfortunately when you view
| everything through some sort of "big corp conspiracy" lense
| you end up with ideas like this. It's super common on hacker
| news. Tiresome but ever present.
|
| The most logical explanation would be something like "they
| released this product because they were making a huge effort
| to get C# to be a truly cross platform language but the mac
| adoption remained low so they decided to retire this product
| and focus more on VS code which has massive adoption on mac"
|
| But that would be too aligned with most developers priorities
| so it is not even on the radar for most people.
| harshalizee wrote:
| This is my primary driver on MacOS. I had no idea they were going
| to sunset this
| tambourine_man wrote:
| You may be confusing it with Visual Studio Code, also called VS
| Code. Yeah, it's not confusing at all.
| jakv wrote:
| I found the news out by the little announcement banner at the
| top of the app when I opened it.
| ejb999 wrote:
| Probably for the best - been a VS developer for many, many years,
| since the first version - but the Mac version was never even
| close to as good as the Windows version - as much as I wished it
| was, as my Mac is my primary machine.
|
| They either needed to kill it, or make it at least as good as it
| was on Windows - guess they decided killing it was easier.
| pif wrote:
| > the Mac version was never even close to as good as the
| Windows version
|
| Care to add any detail, and reason?
| sgjohnson wrote:
| Because the VS version for macOS is essentially just
| MonoDevelop.
| chedabob wrote:
| It shared nothing with Visual Studio apart from the name as
| it was just a rebrand of MonoDevelop.
|
| I tried to use it on a Xamarin project a few years ago, and
| between the poor autocomplete and frequent crashes, I
| switched to JetBrains Rider for everything but XAML editing.
| There were also features that were locked behind a $250/month
| Enterprise subscription which other IDEs provide for free.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonoDevelop#Visual_Studio_for_.
| ..
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Never really made sense that they offered it at all.
|
| The number of .NET shops that have their developers on Macs has
| got to be quite small.
| jspaetzel wrote:
| It was an acquisition, came with Xamarin
| whizzter wrote:
| We've got almost all of our backends on .NET, but for us we
| have plenty of front-end developers and those who're not
| really full-stack are on Mac's and Linux.
|
| Our modern .NET Core codebases aren't much of an issue (pre
| core 3.1/5 are tricky without Arm support but those are easy
| enough to upgrade) but we have a bunch of older Framework
| codebases that forces them to run Windows VM's.
|
| The equation for MS is probably that VSMac was good for those
| targetting the older .NET systems but with Apple going for
| ARM it's just too much work to get them decent (and Mono's
| Framework support didn't seem good enough for even a fairly
| simple project we tried to get running recently) and with the
| new C# SDK for VSCode mostly giving parity for newer projects
| there is fairly little reason to spend any effort on VSMac.
| gnabgib wrote:
| Previously (with comment volume): "Visual Studio for Mac
| Retirement Announcement" (39 points, 2 months ago, 7
| comments)[0], "Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Studio for Mac
| after major overhaul" (116 points, 111 comments)[1], JetBrains
| also did 65% discount when it was first announced [over now] (56
| points, 64 comments)[2]
|
| [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37325427 [1]:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37326419 [2]:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37369946
| wkat4242 wrote:
| It's just really the rebranded xamarin studio. The real visual
| studio was never available anyway
| riwsky wrote:
| There was a Visual Studio for Mac?
| Dudester230602 wrote:
| They were desperate to attract more devs who don't care about
| Microsoft anyways so they started throwing things at wall to
| see what will stick. VS for Mac did not, but Chrome browser
| masquerading as a text editor did.
| fredsmith219 wrote:
| So does this mean no more Mac versions of Excel or word? Or are
| those written using the Apple development tools?
| gwbas1c wrote:
| The announcement has nothing to do with Excel and Word.
| pkdpic wrote:
| I wonder how many cumulative calories were expended on the mini
| anxiety / disbelief attacks caused by n number of people
| momentarily misreading this as "Visual Studio Code" rather than
| "Visual Studio".
|
| Not that I'm the biggest VSCode fanboy although I use it
| constantly. And not that I even own a Mac anymore come to think
| of it. But still, the wording of this post definitely contributed
| to global warming.
| edgyquant wrote:
| Id say not a single one. No one would believe Microsoft was
| going to kill VSCode
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Visual Studio for Mac had its roots in Xamarian Studio, which had
| its roots in MonoDevelop. Each one has always been a rebrand of
| the previous product.
|
| (Edit: I forgot to point out that Visual Studio for Mac never
| appeared to be a port. It always appeared to be a "clone" of
| Visual Studio with a very similar UI.)
|
| They've always been rather buggy and unstable compared to Visual
| Studio on Windows. They were a nice way to do C# on Mac without
| needing to load a VM; and for the last few years I really
| appreciated that C# was getting "first class" support on Mac.
|
| I hope C# works well under VS Code.
| Jare wrote:
| Last I remember, you still need a Visual Studio license to use
| the C# plugins for VSCode. (free for personal use etc) They're
| all part of the package, whether Visual Studio itself exists or
| not.
| Pulcinella wrote:
| Yep. Hence the somewhat confusing name of the software. It's
| not Visual Studio(tm) for macOS. It's Visual Studio for
| Mac(tm).
|
| How well does VSCode work with the Unity engine? My
| understanding was that for game C# programming on macOS Unity
| recommended(required?) Visual Studio for Mac(tm).
| namegulf wrote:
| Anybody using it?
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| CodeRunner's way better
| xz18r wrote:
| One solution to keep on using VS on Mac, for those that are (a)
| weary of VS Code (b) not willing to change to a (paid) JB Rider,
| is to use something like Parallels to emulate VS on Windows.
| bdcravens wrote:
| The principal use case was to build Mac apps using Xamarin,
| something that really isn't possible in Visual Studio on
| Windows.
| bilekas wrote:
| In all fairness, having being forced to work on mac recently for
| a cross platform application, the nuances of the macOs I hear
| dotNet people complain about are honestly NOTHING compared to how
| bad the Visual Studio for mac experience is.
|
| We tried the Rider trial and it was a far superior experience,
| but the price wasn't justified for our use case.
|
| I and others configured nvim to just work, and some others just
| stuck to vscode with the cli. Not one person wants to use the
| Visual Studio anymore. It's wild how Microsoft missed a great
| opportunity as I find the machines quite good, and the Windows
| experience with Visual studio is genuinely impressive.
| nvy wrote:
| >having being forced to work on mac recently for a cross
| platform application, the nuances of the macOs I hear dotNet
| people complain about
|
| Can you elaborate? I've done some dotnet work on macOS and it
| wasn't materially different from working on Linux, in my
| experience.
| capableweb wrote:
| My guess is that the "dotNet people" mentioned by parent
| didn't come from Linux, but from Windows. Different
| experience using Visual Studio on Windows compared to Linux,
| one would think ;)
| bilekas wrote:
| You're right, and I wont criticize them too much, I can
| understand when you're coming from a very robust ecosystem
| to something even slightly different, other people stuck in
| their ways tend to complain!
|
| Edit: Other, not older.
| bilekas wrote:
| Personally I agree with you, I've worked with mono
| extensively before too, but there was a few people close to
| me who would constantly complain about how the library
| support was lacking. One case I remember off the top of my
| head was Network related, so working with Samba, and the
| nuances of support that come with it. Related issues I
| remember seem to stem from that.
|
| There was a few issues (incomplete in the dotnet core) that
| would involve particular cases with threat priorities and
| pooling.
|
| This recent project though, all of the System libs seem to be
| perfect. My previous comment might have sounded disparaging
| to Microsoft, but they've done an incredible job recently and
| deserve credit.
| rokkitmensch wrote:
| VS Code has utterly failed me for a bog-standard Core project.
| No jump-to-def, no Intellisense, zilch.
|
| So I expensed a nice KVM and dug the backup Windows laptop out
| of the closet and got to work without a hitch.
|
| I'm in the habit of preemptively ordering a Mac and a Windows
| machine for anyone on my team who's so unlucky as to even
| infrequently have changes to effect on both our iOS and backend
| systems.
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