[HN Gopher] In 1886, the US commissioned watercolor paintings of...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       In 1886, the US commissioned watercolor paintings of every known
       fruit (2019)
        
       Author : perihelions
       Score  : 566 points
       Date   : 2023-11-02 22:30 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.openculture.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.openculture.com)
        
       | AgentOrange1234 wrote:
       | Wild! This fills me with joy for reasons I do not understand.
       | Thanks for posting.
        
         | neontomo wrote:
         | I feel the same. It's like this kindled a new interest, or the
         | beginning of an interest, and I don't quite know what it is
         | that is so interesting. I'm happy this is in the public domain
         | and I'm gonna brainstorm things to do with it!
        
       | blululu wrote:
       | Tangentially related but about a year ago I trained a StyleGAN on
       | this dataset. The results did an interesting job mapping out the
       | transition from apples to stone fruit:
       | http://www.highdimensionalcoconuts.com/Work/GenerativeImages...
        
         | BandButcher wrote:
         | Very cool
        
       | CSMastermind wrote:
       | This reminds me of John James Audubon and his seminal work, "The
       | Birds of America."
       | 
       | Audubon dedicated much of his life trying to paint every American
       | bird. He basically crowdfunded the work by getting people to pay
       | in advance for bird prints.
       | 
       | "The Birds of America" is a book of 435 images, portraits of
       | every bird then known in the United States - painted and
       | reproduced in the size of life, with original copies being
       | incredibly valuable collectors' items.
       | 
       | If you want to go down a rabbithole read up on his biography.
        
         | MaxLeiter wrote:
         | I once (very very slightly) tore a page of one of the original
         | copies. I've never seen a librarian be so speechless. The good
         | news is my class was just learning about restoring paper and
         | you can't tell it ever happened. The few seconds after it
         | happened were some of the scariest in my life though.
        
           | SpaceNoodled wrote:
           | How did you fix it?
        
             | strombofulous wrote:
             | It's not hard to repair these sorts of things with a little
             | glue.
        
             | IggleSniggle wrote:
             | There's this cool product called _invisible_ tape,
             | colloquially  "scotch tape" but really that's a brand name.
             | Get it all lined up just right and nobody will know the
             | difference!
        
               | photonerd wrote:
               | That's... almost literally the worst tape product you
               | could use (outside of obviously awful ideas like Duct
               | Tape).
               | 
               | In fact repairing use of scotch tape has its own whole
               | section in most treatises on document restoration
        
               | Ma8ee wrote:
               | Just don't. It's a sure way to ruin any book.
        
             | bazzargh wrote:
             | I've seen this done to badly deteriorated paper with
             | japanese tissue tape, eg https://www.preservationequipment.
             | com/Catalogue/Conservation... and it did a pretty
             | incredible job. There's a video on the left of that page
             | that shows the process, worth a look.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | HN has some of the best little anecdotes.
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | > I've never seen a librarian be so speechless.
           | 
           | Before pointing and screaming ala Donald Sutherland in
           | _Bodysnatchers_ '78, I assume?
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | _I've never seen a librarian be so speechless._
           | 
           | It comes with the job.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Neither here nor there, but I just read an article today about
         | how a bunch of birds are being renamed, because of 'harmful'
         | views by Audobon et al
         | 
         | https://apnews.com/article/bird-renaming-american-ornitholog...
        
           | oooyay wrote:
           | John Audubon was a slaver outside of his contributions to
           | birding. That's why all the "Audubon Societies" are changing
           | their names. The rest of the birds are birds named after
           | people and the general decree is to rename all birds named
           | after people and never name things after people again.
           | They'll all have descriptive names now.
        
             | oh_sigh wrote:
             | Neither here nor there, but my alma mater (TCNJ) renamed a
             | building a few years ago - from "Loser Hall" to "Trenton
             | Hall". Paul Loser was the superintendent of the Trenton
             | school system in the early 20th century, and he was in
             | support of segregation of black people into separate school
             | systems. So, a reasonable renaming I think. But renaming it
             | Trenton is itself problematic - Trenton is named after
             | William Trent, a merchant who became one of the richest men
             | in Philadelphia by trading, among other things, literal
             | boatloads of slaves, which seems strictly worse than
             | believing "merely" in segregation.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | I think the most silly version is that King County in
               | Washington, named after a pro slavery vice president, was
               | renamed... to King County, in honor of Martin Luther King
               | Jr.
        
               | GauntletWizard wrote:
               | That's the least silly - it cost nothing in confusion and
               | chaos, they slowly replaced the branding, and (almost,
               | unless you really, really hate philanderers) everyone
               | agrees the new subject was a great man.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | Right, it's a low-effort cop out without any actual hard
               | work.
        
               | selimthegrim wrote:
               | Wait until you hear about Judge Perez Drive in St.
               | Bernard Parish, Louisiana.
        
               | kbelder wrote:
               | In a nearby city, we had a 'Dead Indian Highway'. It was
               | eventually renamed to 'Dead Indian Memorial Highway'.
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | > That's why all the "Audubon Societies" are changing their
             | names.
             | 
             | According to the article, the National Audubon Society is
             | keeping their name, which I think is probably for the best.
             | 
             | Renaming birds named after people is a good idea too, but
             | it's nice to be able acknowledge that people can do amazing
             | things that deserve recognition while also doing terrible
             | things that deserve to be condemned. The blanket painting
             | of people as either heroes or villains is childish and
             | doesn't reflect reality or the complex nature of what it is
             | to be human.
             | 
             | Renaming the National Audubon Society would make about as
             | much sense as renaming the Washington Monument. A history
             | of slavery is something that has tainted the pasts of human
             | civilizations all over the globe and slavery continues to
             | be a something we all profit from even today (which is
             | something I think we may all be judged as "evil" for). In
             | the US it's a very large and shameful part of our history,
             | but I think it's probably better to face that openly rather
             | than to try and sweep that shame under the rug by erasing
             | anyone involved.
        
               | chottocharaii wrote:
               | OTOH slavery is so morally abhorrent that it far
               | outweighs any positive contributions a person might make
               | in their lifetime. I think its good that society condemns
               | it in the strongest possible manner, including by
               | renaming
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | I can understand that others won't feel the same way I
               | do.
               | 
               | Would you then support renaming the Washington monument?
               | Removing any mention of his name from history books, or
               | taking him off of our money? Should we take "Washington
               | Crossing the Delaware" down from the walls of The Met and
               | burn it?
               | 
               | I don't think that the bad things someone does should
               | cause us to pretend that the good things never happened.
               | We should see people for who they were, the good and the
               | bad, even if in the end there was more of one than the
               | other.
               | 
               | It might even be that the worse someone was, the more
               | important it is that we shouldn't forget the good things.
               | It helps remind us that everyone has the capacity for
               | (and a history of) acts both good and evil and that even
               | those who have done terrible things that could never be
               | "made up for" (if that's ever even possible) are/were
               | still capable of making the choice to do something
               | wonderful.
        
               | hooverd wrote:
               | Well, Washington was our first president, so he can get
               | away with that. If chapters of the Audubon society want
               | to rename themselves, I say let them. The living
               | shouldn't be beholden to the dead. It's nothing but a
               | name at this point Also he and Audubon weren't really
               | known for upholding the cause of slavery. I think Mount
               | Blue Sky (formerly Evans) is an example of something that
               | ran the opposite direction. We all agreed it was better
               | off not to commemorate a disgraced territorial governor.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | > I think Mount Blue Sky (formerly Evans) is an example
               | of something that ran the opposite direction. We all
               | agreed it was better off not to commemorate a disgraced
               | territorial governor.
               | 
               | Yeah, I don't have any problem with that one either. I'm
               | not even sure what, if any, connection he had to the
               | mountain. It's not like John Evans was super into
               | mountains and inspired generations of others to get
               | really into the enjoyment/study/preservation of
               | mountains. It's really not clear what naming it after him
               | was for exactly.
        
               | mrobins wrote:
               | Changing the name of a landmark or a species may require
               | thoughtful consideration but not an organization.
               | Companies change names all the time and a bad name drags
               | an org doing good work down. Why should employees have to
               | come to work in the name of someone who doesn't deserve
               | it in the light of history.
        
               | GuardianCaveman wrote:
               | I mean, half the country thought it was fine so you can
               | automatically remove monuments to anyone who lived in the
               | south and some parts of the north from 1619 to 1865. And
               | yes I know only a small percentage owned slaves but
               | that's because they were expensive not because no one
               | else wanted to.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | When it comes to monuments it's important to consider
               | what it is they are honoring. We can keep monuments that
               | celebrate the amazing acts of otherwise flawed people,
               | but (as an example) I think that those monuments by the
               | UDC which were created to glorify people _because_ they
               | fought for the right to keep slaves is something very
               | different.
               | 
               | I'm not okay with the idea of destroying those kinds of
               | statues and monuments, they are still artistic and
               | cultural works after all, but they are probably best left
               | to be displayed in civil war and civil rights museums
               | where they can be contextualized appropriately.
        
               | pbj1968 wrote:
               | You know what would be better than some mythical museum
               | of context? Melting that garbage down into park benches
               | or public toilets.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | > You know what would be better than some mythical museum
               | of context? Melting that garbage down
               | 
               | Do you think civil war/rights museums are mythical? I
               | promise you that there are several and if you've never
               | seen one you should really make the time. I'll warn you
               | though that they are filled with _many_ things you 'd
               | find extremely distasteful which is exactly how they
               | should be.
               | 
               | Ugly as it is, it's our history. A group of KKK loving
               | racists put monuments to their heroes up all over the
               | place including state capitol buildings and courthouses
               | and some remained for over a century. That actually
               | happened.
               | 
               | Current and future generations should be able to see
               | those monuments with their own eyes, the same way that
               | they should be able to visit Auschwitz or the Hiroshima
               | Peace Memorial. We need to confront our history and learn
               | from it, not just erase the parts that make us
               | uncomfortable. It would be wrong to take away that
               | opportunity by destroying all evidence of the shameful
               | things in humanity's past.
        
               | mensetmanusman wrote:
               | Renaming is probably counterproductive as many view
               | erasing history with suspicion. We could more agree to
               | actually fight slavery today, as there are more today
               | than in years past.
        
               | mistercheph wrote:
               | This will be said, and said rightly, about a great deal
               | of the things that you and I do every single day without
               | thought.
        
               | deely3 wrote:
               | Private, for profit prisons?
        
               | barry-cotter wrote:
               | This is trolling, right? You think there's a meaningful
               | moral differences between whether the constituency for
               | keeping more people locked up for longer are government
               | employees or private sector companies?
        
               | silisili wrote:
               | Where is the line drawn? AFAICT we just outsourced
               | slavery, which is equally abhorrent. We all own
               | electronics, clothes, and other trinkets made under
               | duress, and knowingly. Should we all be denigrated and
               | forgotten for turning a blind eye?
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | Yeah I can't imagine history is going to be very kind to
               | us https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57522186
               | 
               | Audubon was born into a world where slavery was
               | considered a perfectly normal part of life and widely
               | practiced. We don't have that excuse. We're supposed to
               | know better than this. We just try to forget about the
               | slaves that made our iphones and give a pass to the
               | corporations responsible.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | We do as all times do, glorify what we do, ignore the
               | evil we do, and complain about those before us who did
               | the evil we do not do.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | It _is_ "good that society condemns it in the strongest
               | possible manner" and ideally never does it again. But the
               | problem of this absolutist black-and-white view is that
               | you're missing a lot of details and nuance. Someone can
               | be both good and bad, in fact all of us are. Everyone
               | deserves to be commended for their good actions and
               | vilified for their bad ones.
               | 
               | The other problem is when this all-or-nothing way of
               | thinking escapes this kind of narrow case and seeps into
               | the common public discourse, see the way politics are
               | evolving in way too many western countries.
               | 
               | That said, renaming birds named after obscure figures is
               | generally a good thing, descriptive names are more useful
               | and don't require knowledge of the historical background
               | to make sense.
        
             | mannyv wrote:
             | Not all the audubon societies are changing.
             | 
             | IMO it's ridiculous. Why not change the name of the
             | Democratic parry while they're at it? They were the party
             | of slavers.
        
               | hooverd wrote:
               | Well, the Democratic party isn't named after a particular
               | person for one.
        
               | Rebelgecko wrote:
               | Democratic is derived from the Greek "demos", which was a
               | term used to delineate free people from slaves
        
               | mjan22640 wrote:
               | Demos means people, while slaves in antiquity were not
               | considered people but living tools.
        
             | enw wrote:
             | It's ridiculous. If we measured all past without nuance and
             | with the fleeting standards of some people of today,
             | everything would be abhorrent. I'm sad to see this way of
             | thinking permeate so deep in our culture.
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | It doesn't look like any of them were comically racist and
           | were just named after questionable people.
           | 
           | I was hoping there'd be things so antiquated you'd have to
           | look it up, eg: stereotypes about people from Dalmatia or
           | Tyrol based on some scandal from 1832.
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | if you want "a certain type of accuracy" in your bird
         | paintings, dig up a copy of Roger Tory Peterson's Field
         | Guide(s) (to birds of various regions). Rather than painting or
         | photographing "a" bird of a species, the books feature
         | illustrations of average/representative birds with little
         | arrows pointing out small features which are key to identifying
         | that species as opposed to some other. It's been a long time
         | since I did any birding, but after getting used to the
         | simplicity of that method, it was difficult to adapt to others
         | that I tried.
        
           | CobrastanJorji wrote:
           | If you want the opposite type of accuracy, I recommend Matt
           | Kracht's "Field Guide to Dumb Birds of North America" or its
           | sequel. While it does provide reasonably accurate drawings of
           | many birds, its focus is more on insulting that specific
           | bird, birds in general, and birdwatchers, with the sort of
           | venom that can only come from someone who has a great deal of
           | love for the subject.
        
             | civilitty wrote:
             | _> with the sort of venom that can only come from someone
             | who has a great deal of love for the subject._
             | 
             | Or their neglected spouse.
        
             | acomjean wrote:
             | "Oh, and birder is the word you have to use. One is a
             | birder. If you say, 'I'm an expert bird watcher' you've
             | automatically tipped off that you aren't a birder"
             | 
             | From the always entertaining "how to be an impostor"
             | article.
             | 
             | https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/08/magazine/how-to-be-an-
             | imp...
        
           | ClassyJacket wrote:
           | I don't know if it's the same one but my uncle used to do the
           | paintings for Field Guide To The Birds of Australia. He's
           | very talented, and it's not just a job for him, he has always
           | been obsessed with birds.
        
         | ndiscover wrote:
         | Images from the book https://artvee.com/books/the-birds-of-
         | america/
        
           | randycupertino wrote:
           | Magpies are so gorgeous. Talk about striking plumage. The
           | kingfisher paintings are nice too! Thank you for the link.
        
           | sotix wrote:
           | I would love a low-energy digital frame on my wall that could
           | rotate through these and the fruit paintings from TFA.
           | Delightful works to look at that deserve more time to
           | experience than quickly scrolling through. One image per day
           | could last years before I would have seen each of them!
        
             | TomK32 wrote:
             | Throw in the bird sounds and you'll live in a very
             | different place.
        
             | imp0cat wrote:
             | There is a TV that can do that - Samsung The Frame.
             | 
             | And as an added bonus, it actually looks like a real
             | painting during the day.
        
               | pests wrote:
               | Huh, I doubted the "energy efficient" requirement and wow
               | yep Art Mode only uses 30% of what its TV Mode uses.
        
               | ZeroGravitas wrote:
               | I believe it can wake up based on movement sensors, which
               | will help.
        
             | sphars wrote:
             | I jailbroke my Kindle Paperwhite just so I could set custom
             | lockscreen images to these bird images. Looks fantastic on
             | an e-ink screen
        
         | fbdab103 wrote:
         | I was curious, and a random hit[0] claims there are 750-800
         | different species in America. So getting ~half of the total 200
         | years ago feels pretty good.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.notesfromtheroad.com/roam/how-many-birds-
         | north-a...
        
           | huytersd wrote:
           | In a way, I bet an ornithologist from a tropical country
           | would envy how someone in North America can completely wrap
           | their hands around the couple hundred species that exist
           | there. In the tropics you probably have 800 different species
           | in a 100 square miles.
        
         | fodkodrasz wrote:
         | That work gets a central role in a pretty good heist movie (or
         | something along those lines, based on a true story): American
         | Animals. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6212478/)
        
         | billfruit wrote:
         | Did he paint the passenger pigeon?
        
           | CSMastermind wrote:
           | He did: https://artvee.com/dl/passenger-pigeon#00
        
         | aydyn wrote:
         | Coincidentally, all birds named after him are going to be
         | renamed to dissociate with his legacy.
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/01/science/birds-ornithology...
        
       | NoImmatureAdHom wrote:
       | I have nothing to say other than: I fucking love this
        
       | flakes wrote:
       | What's wild about this, is that there are probably a huge number
       | of fruits that were not even discovered yet at this time. For
       | example, this fruit discovered in 2016
       | https://blog.pensoft.net/2016/02/12/new-species-with-heart-s...
       | 
       | > Just in time for Valentine's Day, botanists from Hawai'i have
       | discovered a new species of plant with small heart-shaped fruits.
       | The new species is a member of the coffee family (Rubiaceae) and
       | part of the genus Coprosma, which occurs across many remote
       | islands of the Pacific Ocean. They named the new Hawaiian species
       | after the symbol of love - calling it Coprosma cordicarpa -
       | meaning the Coprosma with heart-shaped fruit.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | This would make a fantastic children's book/"kidcyclopedia" for
         | teaching kids the fruits and vegetables
        
           | sunsetonsaturn wrote:
           | I take a similar approach in this children's book:
           | https://github.com/ralienpp/book-two. In the end there is a
           | section about the trees* that grow in the area, their leaves
           | and fruits - so kids can learn to identify them. I'll
           | incorporate some of these materials in the next iterations of
           | the book.
           | 
           | The first link in the repo readme is for the on-screen PDF,
           | you can look at the pictures.
           | 
           | * One of the characters in the story uses trees to figure out
           | where they are and find their way back home.
        
         | markdown wrote:
         | How disappointing; an entire article about a new fruit but not
         | a word about whether it's edible or what it tastes like.
        
           | kadoban wrote:
           | Figuring that out in a safe way is likely not easy.
           | 
           | In survival conditions, the process is messy, painful and
           | dangerous. If you don't have a strong need, I'd think you'd
           | happily wait for the next person to figure it out.
        
             | BandButcher wrote:
             | I forget where i read it, whether book or anecdotal, i
             | wanna say there are general rules for testing these
             | 
             | I think first you're supposed to rub the leaves on your
             | skin and see if a rash or reaction occurs. If not you
             | proceed to lick or chew the leaf/stem, spit it out, then
             | await a any reactions...
             | 
             | This continues to consuming a small piece, then the fruit,
             | ... Etc.
             | 
             | Again just what i remember hearing before
        
               | bdamm wrote:
               | Which, for certain mushrooms, would lead to concluding
               | that you can enjoy a plate of the tasty speciments. After
               | which your DNA will be ripped to pieces over the course
               | of a week, followed shortly by death from general organ
               | failure.
        
               | burnerburnito wrote:
               | Wow that's insane. Any examples in particular? I knew
               | about some plant seeds that if eaten raw have toxins like
               | canavanine that cause malformed proteins but wouldn't be
               | obvious at first or (afaik) if you still overwhelmingly
               | had enough protein in your diet... but getting your DNA
               | completely shredded like that from a source other than
               | radiation sounds so intense.
        
               | sidvit wrote:
               | Destroying Angel and similar mushroom's have a toxin in
               | it which kills some kind of rna enzyme needed for cell's
               | to function properly. Not sure if it exactly fits the
               | bill of DNA shredding but it'll give you irreversible
               | organ failure in a matter of hours
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroying_angel
        
               | kadoban wrote:
               | Yeah, I think this kind of procedure is basically for
               | "you're stuck in the wild, and if you don't find
               | something to eat soonish, you're dead anyway".
               | 
               | So it's inherently risky, not sure there _is_ a non-risky
               | way out. But you definitely wouldn't want to do this
               | without need.
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | This happened on Naked and Afraid where some guy found
               | chicken mushrooms but didn't boil them before eating them
               | and almost died of liver failure.
        
       | toolz wrote:
       | > over 7,500 paintings, drawings, and wax models commissioned by
       | the USDA between 1886 and 1942...
       | 
       | > ...After investing $300,000, they had made $600 in fees in five
       | years.
       | 
       | They couldn't get better art for 300k?! First inflation
       | adjustment calculator I found says 300k in 1910 is 9.3MM today.
       | Maybe, in a way this is reassuring though, that the world can
       | maintain status quo since the late 1800s even with such frivolous
       | misuse of public money.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | I read it as $300k was the amount spent digitizing the
         | paintings in ~2009. So about $40 per painting, which seems a
         | bit high but I'm more curious what prompted them to digitize
         | them at all.
        
           | defrost wrote:
           | Conservation.
           | 
           | Digitized objects can be "looked at" without exposing the
           | originals to light, humidity, and tempreture changes (which
           | cause slow degradation) and serve as a "record of original"
           | should the originals be damaged or otherwise need restoration
           | work.
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | I'm surprised the USDA cared about the originals enough to
             | spend resources on conservation. Imagine the pitch meeting
             | for the project.
             | 
             | "Let's spend $300k digitizing these old paintings of fruit,
             | if we do surely we'll make a killing selling high def
             | access to them. After all, nobody else has paintings of
             | fruit, we'll have the market cornered!"
             | 
             | I'm not saying it's a waste that they did this, I'm curious
             | how they decided to.
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | > if we do surely we'll make a killing selling high def
               | access to them.
               | 
               | In my experience of _Commonwealth_ ( Australia | UK |
               | Canada ) public record conservation this never happens -
               | nobody pitches profit via flogging access although that
               | can arise as a useful side revenue.
               | 
               | The focus tends to be on record preservation, digital
               | version of documents (for example) allow rapid indexed
               | access and extends the lifetime of the original
               | considerably.
               | 
               | The silos of the British library (for example) make the
               | closing scenes of _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ look small in
               | comparison.
        
               | boomboomsubban wrote:
               | The project included setting up a paywall to access the
               | pictures, profit seems like it had to be a stated goal at
               | some point, or at least a recouping of costs.
        
               | chefandy wrote:
               | No, it's the same way here in the US. Archivists are
               | important to government work and take their stewardship
               | roles seriously. It's one of the more professionally
               | principled groups I've worked with.
        
               | mrjudgejoebrown wrote:
               | The scanning was funded through a grant from Ceres Trust,
               | iirc.
        
           | chefandy wrote:
           | While this work is almost always funded by private grants,
           | anyway, that's still not bad. You have to consider the other
           | work that goes into this sort of thing. They don't have a
           | flat bed scanner with some intern popping pdfs onto a network
           | drive or bringing a stack down to the copy shop-- there's
           | cataloging, preservation, metadata analysis and recording
           | (this was probably still all on paper with a lot of it
           | handwritten,) storage, etc. Even a basic scanning setup to
           | take perfectly even, color-accurate pictures of 140 year old
           | paper... Plus people to manage the workers, manage the money,
           | etc etc etc plus space to do it, storage of huuuuuge tiff
           | images... $40 per painting is not bad.
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | The usda.gov is unusable right now. Maybe its being slasdhdotted
       | or maybe its always been unusable.
       | 
       | https://search.nal.usda.gov/discovery/collectionDiscovery?vi...
        
         | hhh wrote:
         | works perfectly and loads instantly for me
        
         | Firmwarrior wrote:
         | I think they're all or mostly mirrored here:
         | 
         | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:USDA_Pomological...
        
       | _a_a_a_ wrote:
       | I think the title should be qualified as 'edible fruit' because
       | that's what this seems to be about, not any old fruit botanically
       | speaking
        
         | smegsicle wrote:
         | i think the 'botanical definition of fruit' meme is getting a
         | bit tired
        
           | _a_a_a_ wrote:
           | Why? It's relevant here surely.
        
             | smegsicle wrote:
             | apparently not, as you admit
        
               | _a_a_a_ wrote:
               | I've no idea what you're talking about. My point was
               | edibility of fruit.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | It's only fruit if it's edible?
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | HN guidelines suggest against editorializing headlines.
        
       | famahar wrote:
       | All public domain too. Someone should make a card game using the
       | art. I plan on using the art as set dressing in a game I'm
       | making.
        
       | wumms wrote:
       | torrent:
       | 
       | https://archive.org/download/usda-pomological-watercolor-col...
       | 
       | magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2f3f472d24980c11d82cb236f04d1f74138e45c4&dn=u
       | sda-pomological-watercolor-collection&tr=http%3a%2f%2fbt1.archive
       | .org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fbt2.archive.org%3a6969%2fa
       | nnounce&ws=http%3a%2f%2fia801808.us.archive.org%2f11%2fitems%2f&w
       | s=https%3a%2f%2fia601808.us.archive.org%2f11%2fitems%2f
        
         | tristanb wrote:
         | thank you - i was looking for that :)
        
         | bash-j wrote:
         | Thanks! Is it possible to include the metadata in the images?
         | So we can know the artist's name, the title of the piece and
         | the subject, e.g. strawberries? It seems to be available on the
         | site when you click one on the images.
        
           | me-vs-cat wrote:
           | One of the files is usda-pomological-watercolor-
           | collection_meta.sqlite (16M). Hopefully the metadata is all
           | there.
           | 
           | Also, curses upon whomever created a 100G torrent that is
           | half padding files.
        
       | barbe wrote:
       | For those of you intrigued by these watercolors, I highly
       | recommend The Food Explorer by Daniel Stone about the botanist,
       | David Fairchild, who is credited with introducing most of the
       | foods we eat today to this country, starting in the 1890s. Many
       | of the watercolors in the exhibit are the samples he and the
       | other food explorers brought back to this country from their
       | world travels. After reading this book, you will never look at
       | the produce aisles in a grocery store in the same frame of mind
       | again. A marvelous, remarkable read...
        
       | jpasholk wrote:
       | Wow, this is so amazing. I wonder if these are available through
       | an API?
        
       | jgalt212 wrote:
       | And the twitter feed based on these:
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/pomological?lang=en
        
         | Niksko wrote:
         | And the equivalent mastodon account:
         | 
         | https://botsin.space/@pomological
        
       | karim79 wrote:
       | Similar thread from March:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30546986
        
       | np_tedious wrote:
       | Covid stimulus should've funded cool stuff like this. Submit one
       | watercolor painting per week to get that extra $600/wk federal
       | unemployment
        
         | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
         | I think we need a bunch of peoples crappy watercolor paintings
        
           | np_tedious wrote:
           | Hey it doesn't need to be efficient when you're just throwing
           | money around. Pay someone else to rank them and pick the best
           | ones. Some amount of them will be good
        
             | chankstein38 wrote:
             | This is such an interesting idea. Basically employ everyone
             | receiving the stimulus as contractors to do something like
             | this. A group of people make the paintings, a group
             | assesses them for quality, others categorize and label.
             | Every job is small and relatively straightforward while
             | also giving something to show for the money!
        
           | mistercheph wrote:
           | Your low opinion of others is simply a reflection of the low
           | esteem in which you hold yourself.
        
             | chankstein38 wrote:
             | To be honest, I don't think I'm the only one who would
             | agree that, if they hired me, the results would be crappy.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | That's actually a really cool idea. Like, make something.
         | Anything. And you get paid.
         | 
         | I know some people would revolt against the idea that one
         | should "have to do something to get welfare money" like it's
         | some sort of thumbing the nose at "welfare queens" or whatever.
         | But no, it has a lot of very constructive benefits.
         | 
         | 1) a person feels a sense of pride for earning money for
         | something they created
         | 
         | 2) they are building a portfolio of work and training
         | themselves toward perhaps making it a meaningful career
         | 
         | 3) we as a society may benefit by seeing some really
         | astonishing work that we would never have discovered otherwise.
        
           | unglaublich wrote:
           | You don't need forced labor for that.
           | 
           | Most people did try out creative things during covid. Those
           | that didn't aren't necessarily "rough diamonds", but likely
           | just uninterested and unmotivated.
        
             | np_tedious wrote:
             | It's not forced labor. Your are welcome to not get paid.
             | 
             | Also, many people find a reason (even if arbitrary /
             | contrived) useful for prompting creative endeavors
        
         | the-dude wrote:
         | We had this in The Netherlands up to 1987 for artists only :
         | the state ended up with a humongous collection of bad/mediocre
         | art, which was eventually sold off through eBay(!)
         | 
         | https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeldende_Kunstenaars_Regeling (
         | no English )
        
           | mrWiz wrote:
           | I feel like there's an implication that convincing people to
           | make bad/mediocre art was a somehow a letdown, but that seems
           | like a fine outcome to me if it got people to actually make
           | art. Making bad art is inherent in the process of making good
           | art. As written in the BRC Weekly last year:
           | 
           | > We need lowbudget art to inspire budgetless fledgling
           | artists. We need art of all kinds as an indication that this
           | is a place of radical self-expression and participation where
           | people realize that anyone can be an artist.
        
             | the-dude wrote:
             | How romantic. The practice at the time was though : in
             | order to get the benefit, one had to produce a piece once
             | in a while, so there were deadlines.
             | 
             | So lots of people smashed some paint on a canvas at that
             | point in time and called it a painting.
             | 
             | Others might call this a scam or embezzlement. In
             | particular when one is paying for it.
        
               | mrWiz wrote:
               | Sure, but the alternative discussed here is handing over
               | the money to people that _haven 't_ produced art,
               | mediocre or otherwise. This could hardly be considered
               | more a scam or embezzlement scheme than that system.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | Sorta related, but the government of Norway will purchase ~1000
         | books (meeting simple criteria) written by Norwegian authors &
         | published by Norwegian publishing houses and then distribute
         | the books to libraries, etc.:
         | https://www.kulturdirektoratet.no/innkjopsordningene
        
       | totetsu wrote:
       | The university I attended in Japan had in its library great
       | original books from this era with similar illustrations.
        
       | o11c wrote:
       | Note that the text tags are often sloppy, e.g. the one just
       | labeled "Citrus" in the text is "Pomerange" in the image.
        
       | jakeogh wrote:
       | Odd fruit YT gem: Jarad Rydelek: I spent 10 years trying to eat
       | every fruit in the world:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB44-Chp3Rw
        
       | jwilber wrote:
       | 5 years back I made a dataset of these, the USDA Pomological
       | paintings, available on GitHub:
       | 
       | https://github.com/jwilber/USDA_Pomological_Watercolors
        
         | chankstein38 wrote:
         | THANK YOU! This is much easier for me than a torrent!
        
       | bruce343434 wrote:
       | Link to the gallery:
       | https://search.nal.usda.gov/discovery/collectionDiscovery?vi...
        
         | nojvek wrote:
         | HN hug of death making site not load.
        
       | mrabcx wrote:
       | Seems to have missed out on durian.
        
       | fodkodrasz wrote:
       | Is there some similar publicly available catalog of mushroom
       | painting? Asking for a friend...
        
       | Uninen wrote:
       | I hope they'll put these on Flickr!
        
       | taubek wrote:
       | It would be nice to see if all those varsities still exist today
       | and if they have changed in an appearance. I know that in my
       | country a lot of old apples can no longer be found.
        
       | FiniteLooper wrote:
       | I love this, but could you imagine if this were something done
       | today? In the current political climate and news cycles it would
       | be "look at how the stupid {{political_party}} is wasting your
       | tax dollars!" or probably every worse/dumber things than that.
        
         | Kalium wrote:
         | This project wasn't undertaken for artistic reasons. It was
         | done so that the US government had records and depictions of
         | domestic produce that could be used in efforts to promote
         | trade. Watercolors were almost certainly the best available
         | option at the time.
         | 
         | Today it _would_ be a waste of money. We have digital cameras
         | and pretty good records of what produce American farmers grow
         | without hiring several dozen artists to traipse around for
         | years.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | It creates jobs though, which is usually seen as positive, no?
         | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
       | 867-5309 wrote:
       | guessing *edible fruit
        
       | horrible-hilde wrote:
       | "to its detriment- a friendly demeanor that allowed humans to
       | approach and capture it with little resistance." ugh, what a
       | world.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-03 23:01 UTC)