[HN Gopher] One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression f...
___________________________________________________________________
One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days
in mice
Author : clouddrover
Score : 220 points
Date : 2023-11-02 20:43 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.northwestern.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.northwestern.edu)
| ge96 wrote:
| What's your secret? I'm always manic
| not-my-account wrote:
| Queue people blogging about their monthly "sleep fast" for
| optimized mood and focus.
| ge96 wrote:
| For me it's forcing myself to only sleep 6 hours so I get
| through my day with loud music, caffeine and self hate.
| catchnear4321 wrote:
| plenty of people force themselves to stay up all night once in
| a blue moon for mental health reasons, all without blogging
| about it.
| nehal3m wrote:
| Really, this is a thing? I've never heard about it.
|
| I used to stay up late sometimes when I was younger, but that
| was because the world went to sleep and I felt at peace doing
| my own thing. It wasn't because I was trying to feel better
| the next day, in fact it tended to screw the next day up.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| There's something to it. Also with dissociatives. Something
| about these substances or practices can help "reset" you
| like pulling the plug on an electrical device and forcing
| it to reboot with refreshed state
| catchnear4321 wrote:
| pushing the system to a point where it flips over to a
| different operating mode. overheating your phone until it
| reboots. ctrl+alt+del.
|
| it usually feels a little precarious. maybe not for
| others. but there's definitely an aspect of futzing with
| your mortality, with your primary systems.
|
| but if it works...
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| I think there's some shared aspect of "too many
| background processes running--must reboot in safe mode!".
| Its also a bit impairing to the point you're not exactly
| "you" so you have a better chance of viewing things with
| different eyes which might be all it takes for someone to
| get to that point where they are aware and able to act on
| incremental changes in-line with that which appears in
| such a state
| catchnear4321 wrote:
| the second day, you slept poorly, mistakes don't matter.
| and that's just an added bonus on top of the biological
| changes.
|
| it is more about the third day.
|
| not surprising to not hear about it. it isn't permanent, so
| catching a "practitioner" in the right moment to bring up
| the topic, while being in the right moment, is unlikely.
|
| plus, bodies are weird, and laws are scary. should everyone
| do this? probably not, and probably for differing reasons.
| ghostie_plz wrote:
| Just sharing an anecdote - I noticed this effect in college
| for myself. Since then i do one or two all nighters a year
| specifically for this
| penjelly wrote:
| this runs counter to what i understood, we had allnighters
| for productivity or bonding among friends. But i never
| wouldve guessed not sleeping for a night would make you feel
| _better_ under some circumstances, always figured the health
| drawbacks would worsen the issue
| ngngngng wrote:
| That's exactly where my brain went. Now I need a Huberman Labs
| podcast telling me how I can incorporate this with my
| supplements and cold showers to achieve my maximum potential.
| shikshake wrote:
| This must be why new parents always seem so bubbly and happy!
|
| But seriously, that's very interesting and explains what I've
| experienced. I've been in a depression since quitting my phd a
| couple months ago and not having a direction in life, but
| whenever I have trouble sleeping I end up feeling better the next
| day. Maybe I'll trying utilizing it to get my portfolio looking
| better.
| fsloth wrote:
| I went several years more or less depressed and observed this
| phenomenon and utilized it. Night of Kerbal Space Program and
| next day the world is much better. For a while. Also, a lot
| fuzzier. And I couldn't code very well (just good enough to do
| my job so everyone was happy but I could _feel_ slipping).
|
| Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end.
|
| But, for sure in a pinch it does alleviate unbearable darkness.
| The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot -
| especially when entering middle age, when you (or I at least)
| can't shrug off sleep debt as easily.
|
| The interesting thing is that this apparently was not well
| known during my therapy. I discussed this effect with my
| therapist, and she was skeptical and non-plussed. No hard
| feelings there, I'm super pleased she was robustly evidence
| based. But very happy to read these results in any case to
| validate my personal discovery.
| romwell wrote:
| Seconding everything you wrote.
|
| Emphasizing:
|
| - "The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot"
|
| - "Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end"
|
| Still resort to this sometimes when I'm not on a schedule
| (i.e. between jobs).
| harimau777 wrote:
| > Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end.
|
| How did you find that therapy helped you? I've started
| therapy a few months back and so far I can't find all that
| much value in it. They can't fix any of the stuff that is
| making me depressed, so it mostly feels like I'm mainly
| getting self help style advice.
| Hard_Space wrote:
| I've been in therapy over six years, and also did it for a
| shorter spell in the early 1990s.
|
| A few months is really the start of the relationship - it
| usually takes that long for most people to establish trust
| with their therapist. That doesn't mean you have the right
| therapist, but it is hard to know this early on.
| runlaszlorun wrote:
| That's my experience as well- though my therapy was a while
| ago. I had worked a stretch of utterly miserable jobs back
| then and conversation would always drift back to the work
| mess I likely left just prior and only frustrate me more. I
| saw several, mostly because I'd be on different insurance
| plans, etc. But not once did anyone say "maybe you need a
| new career path?" If anyone of them had followed that up
| with "and since procrastination is a problem why don't we
| work on helping you get there", I'd be singing the praises
| of the field.
|
| I'm not hating on the profession or anything and I have
| friends who swear by it. But each of them, after a bunch of
| these sessions I could almost see a hint in their eyes of
| "damnit... none of this crap is working." Like I slightly
| felt bad for them in a way. Slightly.
|
| And honestly, given the trajectory of the world, I'd be
| more concerned if many people _weren't_ depressed.
|
| Out of the field, personally I did like Acceptance and
| Commitment Therapy (ACT), but it mostly reinforced what I'd
| learned from a decade of meditation and my buddhist
| practice.
| pr0zac wrote:
| While I def got more from therapy, I concur regarding ACT
| being the methodology that worked best for me and that
| it's wild how much it overlaps with mindfulness and
| Buddhist practices.
| pr0zac wrote:
| You might not have a good fit with your therapist. It took
| me a few tries but once I found someone with a similar mode
| of thinking I got a lot more out of the discussions because
| she said things (often the same things as the prior
| shrinks) in a way that resonated with my brain better.
|
| In that regard, therapy never fixed my problems, but it did
| help me recognize unhealthy thinking patterns and provide
| mechanisms for handling them, both of which have helped me
| avoid spirals and getting trapped in negative thought
| processes.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Therapy helped me when I did it in a group. Mostly in
| making me realize how good I had it.
|
| People that weren't able to drive, weren't able to go
| outside at all etc. I was just permanently afraid.
|
| What I gained from my other sessions was mostly a 'get out
| of jail' free card to unload all of my thoughts. You can
| only do that on your family and friends so many time before
| it starts to wear on them hearing the same things again.
| But my therapist is paid for that shit, so I have no
| compunctions.
|
| SSRI worked much better on a daily basis, but the therapy
| was nice when things were bad.
| leetrout wrote:
| I noticed something similar (see also: my comment about using
| magnesium and getting better sleep on the thread about deep
| sleep yesterday).
|
| When I get ~5ish hours of sleep one night a week I am
| surprisingly more alert the next day but I also crash much
| harder by night. I cannot sustain multiple days of little sleep
| but one short night doesn't seem to have such a detrimental
| effect.
| manvillej wrote:
| I wonder if this is why ADHD people struggle with sleep.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| We have many reasons aha. Always good to start chipping
| away at the list ;)
| pstadler wrote:
| One of my teachers told us to make sure we're getting a good
| amount of sleep two nights before an important event (exam,
| job interview, competition, you name it). One can easily cope
| with a single sleepless night, but not with two in a row.
| danielvaughn wrote:
| There's something about getting 2-3 hours of sleep that makes
| me feel like I'm on top of the world throughout the day. I've
| always assumed it was a kind of wild delirium.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| The sleep quality is super lossless and actually gainful when
| you compress it by allowing a slight sleep debt to accrue
| dgb23 wrote:
| Are you claiming that 2-3h of sleep is enough or healthy?
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| Why don't you try it and see? Some of my best sleeps were
| after a sleepless night and for only like 1-3 hours,
| caffeine or other stimulants in the blood be damned
|
| Edit: also make sure you have bright blue light during
| wakeup/morning/day and mellow non-overhead
| orangey/amber/yellow light (nothing east of yellow) at
| evening/night. Red 2 hours before bedtime for bonus
| "points"
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| My experience does not match up with yours here.
|
| Given work deadlines I have a lot of experience with full
| all-nighters and 1-3 hour nights.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| Can you comment on sleep hygiene and the stuff i
| mentioned about light? Do you sleep in complete darkness
| in a slightly cooler ambient setting and really get a lot
| of bright line first thing at waketime?
| whateverman23 wrote:
| > Why don't you try it and see?
|
| I feel great after a few beers, but keeping that state is
| a very bad idea. "try it and see" is not a great idea
| when it comes to your brain.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| I don't think you build up a "Beer Debt" that grows as it
| depletes like sleep and hunger. Cute wrong example but
| there's really nothing all that malevolent or
| irresponsible about the suggestion. Maybe keep it to the
| weekend (like don't start till Friday/Sat night) and
| obviously you need the set it up so you don't have to be
| places or hold meaningful convos although Im not going to
| rule them totally out
| whateverman23 wrote:
| > there's really nothing all that malevolent or
| irresponsible about the suggestion
|
| You are underestimating the impact of sleep deprivation,
| and the ability for a person to recognize the impacts
| while sleep deprived.
|
| https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.118
| 6/s...
|
| "It was concluded that sleep deprivation has a greater
| impact on driving performance than a BrAC of 22 mg/100mls
| of breath, as measured by driving simulation. Coffee is
| not an effective countermeasure for sleep deprived
| driving and drivers' ability to judge this impairment is
| suggested to be limited."
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| Can I ask how heavily everyone desire I pre-caveat the
| main lede here in order to get the discussion centered
| more on the idea itself and competing views on the extent
| to which folk's have found some usecase or success with
| it? Like, obviously if you're a pilot who needs to be
| able to thread needles and sew while you're able to still
| control the plane should maybe wait till they're relieved
| of duty for the weekend or some amount of time allowing
| the latitude to try this thing out but I feel like
| there's an amount of obtuseness and ridgidity on display
| here.
|
| Edit: also, Polyphasic is insane so anyone making a false
| equivalence here can simply stop. I'm referring to an
| occasional all-nighter for the joint purposes of
| resetting ones mental slate and also helping prime
| oneself for a better quality and faster easing-into the
| next sleep
| whateverman23 wrote:
| > in order to get the discussion centered more on the
| idea itself and competing views on the extent to which
| folk's have found some usecase or success with it?
|
| So you only want "competing" views if they line up with
| your views?
|
| The study was about driving, something many/most of us do
| on a regular basis. It shows that:
|
| 1. Sleep deprivation while driving is comparable to being
| intoxicated while driving.
|
| 2. Those who are sleep deprived are not reliably able to
| recognize their impairment.
|
| If you think it's "obtuse" to bring this up, then I don't
| know what you're trying to do here. Those are extremely
| important pieces of information to bring up.
| mrexroad wrote:
| I have extensive experience with it. I would disagree
| that there's nothing irresponsible. I don't recommend
| anyone try skipping a night just to see. Blood pressure,
| heart rate, and glucose levels can easily go to shit and
| exacerbate underlying any conditions. FWIW it would take
| me 1-2 weeks after shifting to a polyphasic before seeing
| any benefits (which makes sense, respective to jet lag).
| I can easily skip a single night (without stimulants,
| etc) and run off adrenaline the next day, but the day
| after sleeping again I'm useless state of sleep-lag-wtf.
|
| Mediocre analogy: something like polyphasic sleep with
| extremely disciplined sleep-hygiene is like using a stack
| of high-interest credit cards for the rewards/benefits,
| but if you make a mistake then there's a high cost and
| it's not really tenable forever. Skipping a night of
| sleep outright is basically a pay-day loan.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| []
| mrexroad wrote:
| Not to be flippant, but that's called sleep deprivation.
| I did this daily for 18-24mo straight, sleeping a 3h
| block early morning (~4:30-7:30) and a 27min nap aligned
| with my sleep/wake cycle during mid-afternoon. I did this
| without caffeine, stimulants, sugar, etc. After having
| more kids I couldn't keep the daily consistency required
| and scaled back to 1-3x a week. I spent years convinced
| that it elevated my coding, insights, etc., and there was
| a degree of truth to it, as it did mitigate the worst of
| my ADHD. Then I got medicated and suddenly everything in
| the world that had always screamed for my attention 24/7
| started quieting down a little. It took me another decade
| or two to break more of the coping mechanisms I'd
| developed in my late teens for ADHD and dyslexia. I could
| ramble down several tangents for paragraphs here, but
| I'll just throw out my personal note that while there
| were clear cognitive benefits (note: I'm sidestepping the
| increasingly clear long term cognitive risks indicated in
| recent research), the muscular-skeletal costs we're
| greater.
|
| As they say, adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| Its def not a lifestyle, I don't feel like I made that
| super obvious. I'm talking about a once in a blue moon
| type deal where you need a hard reset. Sorta like how
| most people rarely turn off their phones, things get
| fucky with it eventually, and it needs a hard reset or
| reboot. Don't get too hung up on the metaphors, but I've
| experienced it working and I'm not exactly an n=1
| joshspankit wrote:
| For a while there have been theories stating that monophasic
| sleep 8 hours a night is actually disordered sleep. Maybe
| that's worth looking at again.
| wouldbecouldbe wrote:
| I don't know.
|
| Seems very correlated with people having a good reason to pull
| an all nighter.
|
| Whether kids or business.
|
| Meaning makes us tick
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| Yeah, meaning is great, or you know, having something
| exciting or enjoyable to look forward to... but also, I used
| to heavily experience this type of emotional lift from lack
| of sleep but when I started taking Beta Blockers a decade ago
| the benefit stopped overnight never to return.
|
| Adrenaline and the bodies "stress" responses really are a
| wonder drug, you have to completely reconfigure your life and
| processes when it goes away.
| dotnet00 wrote:
| Yeah I feel like this is probably a big part of it. Nothing
| does away with my depressive existential dread better than
| just having any kind of work to do, be it working on a
| personal skill or employment related work.
| culi wrote:
| It's an experimental study not an observational study. So
| that correlation won't have an effect here
| smokel wrote:
| ... in mice.
| henryaj wrote:
| It is very well established in humans too.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_therapy
| Murfalo wrote:
| Indeed, the article title is a little misleading! Sleep
| depravation producing short-term improvements in human
| depression has been well known for some time. What the
| authors actually propose is an underlying mechanism to that
| improvement, in mice...
| jl6 wrote:
| > In a new study, researchers induced mild, acute sleep
| deprivation in mice and then examined their behaviors and brain
| activity. Not only did dopamine release increase during the
| acute sleep loss period, synaptic plasticity also was enhanced
| -- literally rewiring the brain to maintain the bubbly mood for
| the next few days.
|
| What's a mouse like when it's in a bubbly mood?!
| smokel wrote:
| Perhaps we misread, and "their" refers to the researchers,
| not to the mice!
| stevenwoo wrote:
| Further in the article they discuss monitoring activity of
| dopamine neurons and modifying individual neurons in the
| brains of these mice (which has parts analogous to human in
| many ways including emotion) and describing the behavior of
| sleep deprived mice which sort of implies what the normal
| behavior is.
| pvaldes wrote:
| Are we talking about that small mammal that is a nocturnal
| species?
| dang wrote:
| Indeed. Inmiced. Thanks!
| the_cat_kittles wrote:
| i have noticed i have a sleepless night every once and a while,
| maybe once a month, and i usually have been feeling bad
| emotionally leading up to it. and i do usually feel better the
| next day, despite expecting to feel bad from no sleep
| AlexandrB wrote:
| I always thought it was related to anxiety. After staying up
| late it feels like I'm forced to focus on what's important
| because I don't have the mental capacity to let my mind wander
| and worry about stuff.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Once I go past 24hr I get really loopy and giggly.
| jackcosgrove wrote:
| Not sleeping for over 72 hours is the threshold for insanity.
| slenk wrote:
| I was awake that long once. I can understand why that
| threshold exists
| shtopointo wrote:
| What about all the other studies claiming that poor sleep causes
| depression? Not sure what to trust these days. Gut tells me poor
| sleep won't make you ahem "your brain feel slap-happy, loopy and
| almost giddy" (very scientific).
| croes wrote:
| From the article
|
| >Chronic sleep loss is well studied, and it's uniformly
| detrimental effects are widely documented," Kozorovitskiy said.
| "But brief sleep loss -- like the equivalent of a student
| pulling an all-nighter before an exam -- is less understood.
| thibaut_barrere wrote:
| I guess it also depends on what your past has been.
|
| After going through a "sleep-deprived burnout cycle", I found
| that any all-nighter will pull me back into the emotions I
| got at that time, even if I feel originally great physically
| & mentally.
|
| So, YMMV!
| mrbungie wrote:
| I guess just one sleepless night is not the same as chronic
| poor sleep patterns.
|
| Also, it's interesting because sleepless nights are kind of a
| sign in bipolar disorder patients that an (hypo)-manic episode
| is about to occur or is actually occurring.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _What about all the other studies claiming that poor sleep
| causes depression?_
|
| What about them?
|
| This is about one sleepless night every several days/week for
| an already depressed person.
|
| Not about non-depressed people continuously sleeping poorly
| (which is where poor sleep would cause depression).
| Jerrrry wrote:
| The "morning hormonal" dump that gets offset by not sleeping
| could easily shift neuro-chemistry.
|
| For (sufficiently) depressed people, any perceived shift is
| likely going to be a improvement.
|
| Related, similar studies have postured that nights with
| occasional stirrups lead to a more rested day, un-intuitively.
|
| The variation in sleep requirements within groups may have more
| obvious evolutionary benefits; the security of camps overnight
| depend on those who stay up overnight to stand guard or
| occasionally tend to the fire.
| rottencupcakes wrote:
| My entire life, I've been a night owl. I'm prone to depression
| in the mornings. I prefer to avoid doing anthing in the AM. In
| the evenings, I can have a lot of get-up-and-go energy and can
| be positive about a lot of ideas, but when I wake up the next
| morning, my entire mood has shifted and I'm often quite
| negative.
|
| Staying up all night (or only getting a few hours of sleep)
| avoids that mental reset that causes my entire mood to shift.
|
| I wonder if this is related to the phenomenon studied.
| sys32768 wrote:
| Once I hit my 40s, staying up too late causes a sleep hangover
| that would last a couple of days.
|
| Gone are my days of playing Ultima IV all night and feeling giddy
| in the morning.
| dralley wrote:
| It doesn't work for multiple sleepless/almost-sleepless nights in
| a row, ask me how I know.
| croes wrote:
| >Chronic sleep loss is well studied, and it's uniformly
| detrimental effects are widely documented
| romwell wrote:
| >It doesn't work for multiple sleepless/almost-sleepless nights
| in a row, ask me how I know.
|
| In other news, beneficial effects of a single cup of coffee
| don't seem to show up after you have a dozen of them.
| JaDogg wrote:
| I have some experience with this. But what can happen is sometime
| you overdo it and burn out physically, and depression hit at the
| same time. And you will be worse off.
|
| Happiest time of my life was when I was going to gym regularly
| (about 3 - 4 days per week)
| taude wrote:
| Can't wait to read about how bio-hackers are using this tool with
| their optimal morning routine ice-baths and lunchtime cocaine.
| romwell wrote:
| >and lunchtime cocaine.
|
| In fact, forget the ice baths
| throwaway4837 wrote:
| Waking up in the mornings helps reset my mental state sometimes.
| I wonder if it's related. If I have an early morning, I usually
| find that I'm more productive and have more energy to work out or
| focus on tasks. There's nothing more depressing than a cycle of
| waking up at 2pm because you stayed up until 5am. Waking up so
| late makes me feel like I'm wasting my life.
| hshsbs84848 wrote:
| I've found that too
|
| Somehow I feel really energized if I wake up like 2-3 hours
| before my regular time
|
| But only if I haven't done it in a while
|
| Something about disrupting the pattern seems to throw off the
| usual morning grogginess
| LesZedCB wrote:
| it's my favorite part about early morning flights. i don't
| fly often, but when i do travel the following two weeks where
| i practically jump out of bed at 6-7am are amazing.
| cactusplant7374 wrote:
| I have a prescription for ketamine and when I take it at night it
| causes poor sleep and noticeable lethargy the next day. It's not
| a great thing.
|
| But I think "reversing depression" is codeword for manic and
| euphoria sensations. It's not targeting the core of what is
| depression.
| Hard_Space wrote:
| Having suffered from severe depression for over forty years, this
| reminds me of when I was 17, 18, etc. and suddenly discovered
| that if I stayed up for two days, the problem went away. So I
| knew this a very long time ago; but it always seemed to me that,
| besides smoking, this was just about one of the worst habits you
| could develop. By my mid-twenties, I had stopped.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues
| long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep
| anymore.
|
| Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but
| also deeply appreciate everyone's comments.
| datameta wrote:
| Try Type III cannabis (high cbd hemp). Nowadays it looks and
| smells like Type I cannabis (the high thc standard variety of
| weed). It has all the various combinations of cannabinoids,
| terpenes, and flavonoids that contribute to the entourage
| effect except for THC (<0.3%). In many if not most cases it
| can do what Type I medical cannabis can do.
|
| i.e. amongst non-psychoactive hemp flower there are relaxing
| indicas for insomnia, functional hybrids for chronic pain,
| sativas for a pick-me-up, etc.
| pstuart wrote:
| I've not tried it yet, but CBN seems to be the winner in
| this category. It's legal in all states if pure. Black
| Friday is coming and I plan on getting some from a vendor
| I've used in the past. Ping me for that info if you wish.
| YMMV.
| Loughla wrote:
| So I feel like you exactly identified the long term problem
| in the same paragraph.
|
| I learned years ago that any chemical that helps you sleep
| ensures that you can't sleep without it. I've used everything
| from thc to Benadryl to lavender and everything in between.
|
| It all had the same effects: slowly degrading effectiveness
| and sleeplessness without it.
|
| Pro-tip: find the source of your insomnia. Is it chemical or
| is it electrical or is it just habit? Doing a real sleep test
| and working with doctors was life changing. Mine was habit
| and anxiety. Meditation and therapy have helped.
|
| Anecdotal, I know. But what happens when the thc runs out?
| You crash. That's what I did.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Yeah. I've tried. My problem is that 3-4 days of no sleep
| and I'm just about ready to sign off from this life.
|
| I've managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to
| increase the dosage. I've never ever slept well. But back
| before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to.
|
| As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My
| brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.
| omginternets wrote:
| Have you tried exercising (>2h before you go to bed,
| IME), staying away from screens 4h before bed, and
| dimming the lights 1h before bed?
|
| That was a life-changer for me.
| _puk wrote:
| Having to quarantine in a small sauna house after
| travelling introduced me to the delights of crappy
| internet, multiple daily cold river swims, and no real
| lighting outside of a few candles.
|
| Needless to say I went from awful sleep to going to bed
| as the sun went down (in summer), and not waking up until
| sunrise, all in the matter of days.
|
| Thinking back on it, I really should get back into that.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Almost as if we're not really built to do anything else
| :)
| ethanbond wrote:
| I _highly_ recommend the podcast Sleep With Me. It's
| extremely weird and the guy's voice isn't exactly
| "comforting" the way most sleep-inducing things try to
| be, but give it a few tries.
|
| It's basically bedtime "stories" that are more like
| improvised narrative mazes that are just interesting
| enough to keep your interest (and exhaust your brain) but
| not interesting or meaningful enough to keep you awake.
|
| I went from laying awake for _hours and hours_ as a
| general nightly routine to falling asleep reliably in
| 10-20 minutes. I didn't even know it was possible to fall
| asleep that fast.
|
| As a tip: There's nothing to "get" about the podcast.
| It's just a treadmill for the overactive parts of your
| brain.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| This sounds right down my alley!
| Hard_Space wrote:
| > just interesting enough to keep your interest (and
| exhaust your brain) but not interesting or meaningful
| enough to keep you awake
|
| Exactly. Back when I read more, I would have books to
| stimulate (daytime/commute reading) and 'bedtime books',
| which had to be interesting enough to read, but also
| effortful and ultimately tiring enough to promote sleep.
|
| Now I do the same with TV shows in Plex, late at night.
| Unusually, it's the documentaries that stop me sleeping,
| and the classic US TV shows (that I like) that help me
| drift away.
| Timon3 wrote:
| I used to have the same sleep problem (head won't stop
| racing), and mindfulness exercises throughout the day
| have greatly improved things for me. In a way it feels
| like the ability to turn it down for a time, long enough
| to get so tired it doesn't start back up again.
|
| One trick I found myself is to visualise things in the
| noise from your closed eyes. Try to interpret something
| you can vaguely see, and then try to visualise it. This
| imposes a kind of clear image for a short duration for
| me, from which I try to see and visualise something else
| in there and so on, kind of like a visual association
| chain. That really gets me sleepy after a couple of
| minutes!
| Aeolun wrote:
| > visualise things in the noise from your closed eyes
|
| Ooh, the visualization whirlwind. This is the first time
| I've ever hear anyone talk about it or had to give it a
| name. At least for me it's just tons of images flashing
| before my eyes, rapidly changing, only tenuously guided
| by my mind.
| interstice wrote:
| This sounds familiar, I got to a point a few years ago
| where even if I could get to sleep I'd wake up at 3-4am
| with every last problem racing around my mind, but have
| never felt good with any amount of sleep.
|
| In the end I went to the GP for anxiety and came out with
| a depression diagnosis and a bottle of Lexapro. Lucky for
| me I didn't get the crazy side effects and in combination
| with melatonin at least getting to sleep is no longer a
| problem.
|
| In the past I've also found that deliberately clearing my
| thoughts is a way to slip from 'day mode' to those dozy
| random thoughts, but its often hard to remember in the
| moment and doesn't always work.
| tomcam wrote:
| See my profile if you'd like to create a tiny support
| group. I have had horrifically bad insomnia for half a
| century. At the moment I'm having luck with 600mg
| gabapentin + 20mg Belsomra but that's only a couple weeks
| gold.
| NickC25 wrote:
| I'm with you - I have a few hits of some low-grade stuff
| maybe an hour or two before bed, and then I doze off
| naturally when it's dark out.
|
| i also eat well, and make sure to not have blue light
| exposure for the last hour of my day.
|
| But what really helped me, especially since I have crazy
| ADHD, is exercise. I lift when I get up, and do 1-2 hours
| of hard HIIT in the evenings after work. My body is
| absolutely shot by the time I'm done so I really don't
| have the energy to have my brain go all over the place.
| This coupled with a nice cold plunge in the evenings
| after said workouts (and another cold shower before I
| sleep), and good nutrition has helped me big time.
|
| The THC does help, especially if I do it at the right
| time. If I smoke in the afternoons I am absolutely
| destroyed by sundown. I do fear it's creating an
| addiction or a physical dependence, but I value my sleep
| considerably.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| Getting to the source certainly sounds ideal, but I wonder
| - if you find a variety of substances help though develop
| tolerance, couldn't you rotate them to try and keep them
| effective?
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| If you cannot fall asleep without a drug then I'd say the
| drug has already caused issues
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| well the issue was not being able to fall asleep without a
| drug
|
| so falling asleep with a drug is an improvement
| bdamm wrote:
| Being unable to sleep is a common withdrawal symptom for
| cannabis use disorder. Congratulations, you are habituated,
| and long-term problems are likely accumulating as you are
| losing out on REM sleep and probably developing emotional and
| physical conditions related to cannabis use. Good luck!
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| Yeah. I used to smoke a tiny bit every day and it really
| fucked me up.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| damn, so I'm screwed and I don't even get to enjoy the
| upsides of cannabis. Rough world.
| cmyr wrote:
| I've smoked weed before bed most nights for at least a
| decade, and if I happen to skip a night I... still sleep
| fine, unless I've had no exercise that day.
| hotnfresh wrote:
| I _can_ get to sleep without it. I just can 't be _sure_ I
| 'll be able to get to sleep without it. Like 30%-40% odds
| I'll have serious sleep trouble if I don't take it, so I take
| it most nights.
|
| Amazing stuff, much better than the sleeping pill
| prescription I had years back (Lunesta).
| 1980phipsi wrote:
| My brother basically needs THC to sleep.
|
| Or strenuous physical activity all day.
| jackcosgrove wrote:
| > Or strenuous physical activity all day.
|
| The lack of strenuous physical activity all day is a real
| problem with modern life. We did not evolve to be
| sedentary.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I've added an hour of exercise to my day and while it
| hasn't solve my sleeping problems, I can't live without
| it anymore. It just makes _everything_ else feel easier.
| tomcam wrote:
| Same. Nor does all-day physical activity
| manmal wrote:
| Tapering off very slowly (over weeks or months) will probably
| work better than cold turkey.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I'm just now sure how to taper off. They don't come in
| smaller doses than 5mg and that's where I'm at.
| manmal wrote:
| Split it until it's 0mg.
| tomcam wrote:
| Hang on, is it working? Didn't you say you take 5mg and
| it's been working for years at that level? I'd rank that
| as a win...
| heavyset_go wrote:
| What form is it in? If its a capsule with dissolved oil,
| break the capsule and dilute the oil.
|
| If it's a solid, just break it.
|
| If you can buy a THC tincture, you can easily use
| dilution and volumetric dosing to titrate your doses down
| over time.
| nwienert wrote:
| If you can, try Semaglutide.
|
| I am a top % light sleeper - hard to sleep, inconsistent,
| never could sleep outside of basically ideal conditions.
|
| Was prescribed Tirzepatide (similar to Semaglutide) and it
| fixed my sleep like nothing else has - I actually _feel
| tired_ at a normal hour and _doze off_ , two thing I never
| really did before. At the lowest dose you won't lose weight
| beyond the first few months, and you can maintain weight with
| small effort even still. So even if you are completely
| healthy weight, it could be useful.
|
| I wouldn't normally think recommending a totally unrelated
| drug for sleep issues would be sane, but it also happens to
| have a ton of other positive effects for me at least. And the
| safety profile seems solid, esp compared to other sleep
| drugs. Plus not psychoactive and actually reduces your
| addictive behaviors especially in terms of nicotine/THC.
| Certainly a lot better side effect profile than THC (imo,
| from research).
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I appreciate this greatly. After reading a lot of these
| comments I think I'm smart enough to realize it's time to
| get help. I'll speak with them about this idea and others.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| A lot of "help" in this space are things like z-drugs,
| benzos, antihistamines like hydroxyzine, low doses of
| atypical antipsychotics like Seroquel, and
| antidepressants like Trazodone and mirtazapine.
|
| IMO, THC can be the lesser of two evils in comparison.
| pstuart wrote:
| You'll get plenty of advice and it's worth evaluating it all
| (as we're all different), but trazodone has been a miracle
| worker in aiding sleep. It's cheap, well understood, and the
| only negative aspect I've encountered is the risk of priapism
| (which can sound like a joke but should be taken _very_
| seriously)
| nwienert wrote:
| Trazodone felt like a Nuke to me, tried it for sleep but
| whew what a crazy strong (bad) feeling it gave me.
| tomcam wrote:
| Did nothing for me
| ProfessorLayton wrote:
| Same. All it did was give me an incredible hangover the
| next day, blurry vision, tremors, and -- scariest of all
| -- made me feel sad. Had to quit within a week. Glad it
| works for others, but easily one of the worst things I've
| ever tried.
| yankoff wrote:
| I had a period when I used THC (edibles) for sleep every day.
| This was one of the worst things I have ever done to myself.
| At first, you don't notice much side effects, but slowly it
| creeps up on you. It makes you depressed, depletes of any
| motivation, gives brain fog and you may just feel weird over
| all. When I quit I was amazed by how much better I started
| feeling and by how much my cognitive function improved.
|
| I would highly recommend getting off it asap. Maybe taper off
| if you can't quit right away. First nights will be tough:
| sleepless, cold sweats, crazy dreams, but then it should get
| much much better. Be well!
| ben_jones wrote:
| ~10 years from now we're going to have better data on
| chronic THC consumption and after being a heavy user I'm
| pretty confident it's going to shock a lot of people with
| negative externalities.
|
| Tip for getting off weed - start by lowering the damn
| dosage. A lot of commonly used products are the equivalent
| of a triple shot. And folks do it daily.
| ProfessorLayton wrote:
| >It makes you depressed, depletes of any motivation, gives
| brain fog and you may just feel weird over all
|
| YMMV. That's me on a sleepless night.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Look into weaker THC analogues like delta-8-THC or
| delta-10-THC. They have weaker binding profiles and half-
| lives than normal THC does.
|
| Same thing with CBD and its analogues.
|
| CBN will knock me out and it isn't active at CB1 like THC is,
| so it doesn't get you high.
| thowaway91234 wrote:
| I recently was forced off of SSRIs after nearly ten years
| because I lost my psychiatrist and couldn't get a new one
| because the waitlists were ridiculous.
|
| After 10 years on them, the next 6 months were absolute hell (i
| legit thought at one point I might go full Joaquin Phoenix in
| Joker) but I made it through, no small part thanks to my
| wonderful amazing wife.
|
| Rebound depression have been an issue - though in general I
| feel like I am much better off without the antidepressants now
| than with them - and I've also noticed that pulling an all
| nighter would actually fix the rebounds for a bit. A small dose
| of melatonin before bed worked wonders for me now. I sleep
| better and the rebounds are extremely rare.
| erikpukinskis wrote:
| Just a side note for anyone reading: you can get an SSRI
| prescription from your GP (general practitioner i.e. normal
| doctor) you don't need to go through a psychiatrist.
|
| This is especially true if you are at risk for withdrawal,
| they will want to prevent that.
| fsckboy wrote:
| any medical doctor of any specialization can legally
| prescribe anything. that doesn't make it a good idea. a
| piece of supporting evidence is that the doctor's
| malpractice insurance may not cover any "cowboy"
| prescribing tendencies.
| ksenzee wrote:
| GPs routinely prescribe SSRIs. Even pediatricians. At
| least in the US.
| H8crilA wrote:
| A lot of non-psychiatrist doctors prescribe SSRIs around
| the world, and that's a very good thing. These drugs are
| safe.
| ksenzee wrote:
| Agreed.
| erikpukinskis wrote:
| That's fair. But I'll note that the "General" in "General
| Practitioner" means they specialize in the wide range of
| health problems that occur frequently in the general
| population. That includes things like depression,
| anxiety, ADHD, etc.
|
| I wouldn't advocate you get a prescription for
| antipsychotics from your orthopedist, but SSRIs from a GP
| is probably pretty safe.
|
| Obviously, it depends on the doctor and the symptoms. But
| a good GP will also refer you out to a specialist when
| needed. That's a big part of their job: assessing when to
| call in a specialist.
| rl3 wrote:
| As other comments said, GPs routinely prescribe SSRIs.
| Moreover, it's not remotely cowboy to ensure continuity
| of care arising from exigent circumstances.
| 3c6bYDXLMj wrote:
| You can always tell when someone is American because
| they'll make statements like this without qualifying it
| with a jurisdiction.
|
| Where I live? This is 100% factually false.
| brokencode wrote:
| If all you need is a refill on a prescription you've been
| taking for 10 years, how is that "cowboy" prescribing?
| Also, these are trained professionals with years of
| education we're talking about, not some random dude off
| the street.
| Hard_Space wrote:
| > would actually fix the rebounds for a bit.
|
| I can't prove it, but even dumb teenage me felt instinctively
| that extreme sleep deprivation was likely to take a long and
| possibly permanent toll. I don't think anything that extreme
| can really be practiced in moderation, because it's more like
| taking heroin than eating too many cakes, etc., i.e., it's
| not a 'granular' indulgence.
|
| I would hesitate to call this a hot take on my part, since I
| am guessing that in that period of my life, I probably stayed
| up for two days on several hundred occasions, if not more.
|
| For anyone else suffering from severe depression, this is an
| easy answer, maybe; but there are better easy answers than
| this. Cannabis (I am not a partaker since I was an student)
| would be better than this.
|
| Really, do anything but this. It's not 'free'; nothing that
| works is free.
| Mortiffer wrote:
| That's terrible man.
|
| I hate being dependent on a doc. Try to reduce this horrible
| risk by going up and down on dose to get a little stock pile
| to feel a bit safer.
|
| But changes little I guess
| PreachSoup wrote:
| Seems that I'm in the opposite. If I don't get enough sleep I
| would have noticeable bad mood.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Weird, whenever I pull an all nighter my mood is usually
| noticeably depressed for the following two days.
|
| I also used to be a bit of an insomniac, and one sleepless night
| could easily throw off my circadian rhythm, creating all sorts of
| extra anxiety, which translates into demand avoidance, stress and
| furthering depression.
| baxtr wrote:
| Is your normal state depressed though? I don't think it works
| for "normal" people.
| Kbelicius wrote:
| The study was done on mice. Are there depressed mouse that
| are used in such experiments or is this just an opinion on
| why zdragnar might not feel these effects? This is a genuine
| question.
| baxtr wrote:
| Ah god to know. I missed the mice part... I feel the same
| as OP. Whenever I miss a night I'm in a terrible mood. It
| was just my opinion.
| WJW wrote:
| It is possible to artificially induce depression in mice,
| yes. Obviously, the whole field is insanely fraught with
| ethical dilemmas.
| kzrdude wrote:
| This is like me too. I'm normally not depressed, but every time
| sleep is affected, it throws me off and leads me down to
| viewing the world negatively.
| Hard_Space wrote:
| Yes, the 'sleep hangover': the after-effect that told me that
| what I was doing to myself by regularly staying up for 48 hours
| was similar to drinking a quart or two of scotch.
| jvm___ wrote:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/
|
| This sub-reddit is dedicated to people who've noticed this effect
| for ADHD and probably depression as well. Drinking alcohol
| somehow causes the same 'reversal' of symptoms, either motivation
| or other mood problems. Lots of discussion as to what causes it -
| and questions/theories on how to reproduce without alcohol.
|
| Alcohol causing sleeplessness, or sleep that's not the usual
| quality might be an explanation.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| Shame that I cannot view that without the app
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| https://old.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/
| disiplus wrote:
| I have ADHD, did never tried it with alcohol, but sleep
| deprivation works. I used it when working on important projects
| with deadlines. You kind of feel like in a parallel universe
| after a couple of a day if it's a interesting subject for you,
| ADHD gives you hyper focus, and sleep deprivation gives you
| this energy to push thru. It's like you don't even need the
| medication. If you combine it with ADHD medications it's like
| delirium. But anyway it comes all crashing after couple of days
| and you have to pick yourself up. I did it for import projects,
| but don't recommend it.
| lucia-goldsmith wrote:
| The article "One Sleepless Night Can Rapidly Reverse Depression
| for Several Days" is a fascinating and promising piece of
| research. The findings suggest that sleep loss could be a
| potential treatment for depression, which is a debilitating
| condition that affects millions of people worldwide.
|
| I am particularly interested in the implications of this research
| for many people. I believe that this research could lead to new
| and innovative treatments for depression, which would be a major
| breakthrough in the field of mental health.
|
| However, I am also aware of the potential risks associated with
| sleep loss. Sleep is essential for physical and mental health,
| and sleep deprivation can have a number of negative consequences,
| including cognitive impairment, increased risk of accidents, and
| worsening of existing mental health conditions.
|
| Therefore, I believe that it is important to carefully consider
| the potential benefits and risks of sleep loss before using it as
| a treatment for depression. More research is needed to determine
| whether sleep loss can be safely and effectively used in a
| clinical setting.
|
| I am optimistic that this research will lead to new and effective
| treatments for depression. I am also hopeful that this research
| will raise awareness of the importance of sleep for both physical
| and mental health.
| IntrepidPig wrote:
| Was this written by an LLM?
| lucia-goldsmith wrote:
| No, it was not written by a language model (LLM). I know one
| of the authors, Mingzheng Wu, and have followed his work
| closely, including his papers on the rapid enhancement of
| glutamate-evoked dendritic spinogenesis in the medial
| prefrontal cortex through dopaminergic mechanisms, and the
| suppression of neuropathic pain through inhibition of YAP/TAZ
| activity in the spinal cord.
| warthog wrote:
| If you mean the comment, I think so. That's why it is
| probably flagged
| myth_drannon wrote:
| You get rid of depression but acquire dementia.
| maipen wrote:
| The article actualy says that if it's a routine thing then
| other problems will start to set in, obviously. They also
| mention that your probably better off going for a walk or going
| to the gym. This is just another possible tool that we could
| use strategicaly, but very rarely, to combat depression or
| feeling down.
| aatd86 wrote:
| I'm not depressed but just in case, time to go clubbin' like I'm
| nineteen again.
| tomcam wrote:
| Weirdly I am in my 60s and have no trouble pulling all-
| nighters. I went clubbing like twice in my 20s and found it
| dull af, but coding all night is still not a problem for me.
|
| I have always been an atrocious sleeper.
| permo-w wrote:
| the problem with this is that sleep loss has myriad other
| consequences; something I often discover when I take ADHD
| medication. it's all well and good being productive for a day,
| but when you wake up the next day at 2pm, things start to fall
| apart
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| And can promote mania/psychosis, which seem related (higher
| energy levels)
| chupapimunyenyo wrote:
| > Chronic sleep loss is well studied, and it's uniformly
| detrimental effects are widely documented," Kozorovitskiy said.
|
| I believe he didn't say "it's", he probably said "its".
| m463 wrote:
| sort of interesting how your/you're, its/it's,
| shrimps/softwares and others sort of unconsciously makes what
| you're reading less authoritative in a 4th wall way.
| chupapimunyenyo wrote:
| Not even unconsciously, I stop reading anything I've been
| reading once I meet one of these. It's disrespectful to the
| reader to not even check what's the correct spelling of a
| word you are using, and in my opinion indicates that the
| writer is not intelligent enough to recognize patterns in
| text, it really isn't that hard to see how a word is used in
| the wild. Kind of a hot take
| kzrdude wrote:
| You can't put all people on a scale like that, less
| intelligent vs more intelligent. Some people are great with
| letters and words and spot typos quickly, some just don't
| see it as easily. They can still be very intelligent in
| other aspects. People are different.
| chupapimunyenyo wrote:
| You know, you are right. I agree, but it still drives me
| nuts seeing this, maybe it's just ignorance? I expect a
| higher standard from a .edu website
| bussetta wrote:
| Whenever I feel down, I binge watch something usually late into
| nights and I feel better next day. I wonder if it's due to the
| lack of sleep.
| simonbarker87 wrote:
| Same for me. I don't feel stress in the typical way, in fact
| for years I don't think I got stressed. My wife eventually
| correlated me "checking out" for a few evenings in a row and
| smashing through a TV series or two as my stress relief valve.
| To me I just thought I wanted to watch TV, to her she noticed
| it always happened when events around me would be making other
| people "be stressed out".
| Terr_ wrote:
| Periodically skipping-a-sleep (in order to shift the next
| bedtime) is also one approach to treat Delayed Sleep Phase
| Syndrome (DSPS), which is also correlated to depression.
| warthog wrote:
| Well that's good news. Hate sleep
| k8svet wrote:
| It's just anecdata, and I am delighted to say that other
| lifestyle changes have eliminated most of my anxiety/depression,
| but this was definitely I hack I learned on my own and used at
| times.
| ltr_ wrote:
| nice to know, kind of suspected that. for me, a good non sleep
| night = bye cockroach mode and hello overenthusiastic maniac for
| a week. quite a ride. 100% recommended.
| darkerside wrote:
| If you've never tried a Ragnar race, you should consider it. It's
| a 36 hour-ish team relay race, with non runners driving in a van
| to meet runners at the next relay spot. You barely sleep, but the
| 1-2 hours you get are probably the deepest you'll ever feel. The
| next day you are exhausted and yet feel amazing at the same time.
| jackcosgrove wrote:
| The mice's symptoms when sleep deprived sound very similar to
| hypomanic symptoms. The same electrochemical circuits are likely
| involved, in one case a chemical imbalance inducing
| sleeplessness, and in another sleeplessness inducing a chemical
| imbalance.
| girafffe_i wrote:
| I used to love Mondays, I would work hard during the week
| studying and working, then Friday I would stay up until sunrise
| with friends drinking or gaming. I kept this up while working in
| the corporate world and thought "this is what people mean by
| feeling refreshed"
|
| It wasn't until I met someone who bent me to be on her schedule,
| early to bed early to rise on the weekends, where I started
| feeling depressed by the end of the week, getting Sunday scaries,
| and having late onset insomnia.
|
| Complete anecdata, but I'm going to start practicing this again
| on Fridays to see what happens.
| squarepizza wrote:
| Same. I'm completely anhedonic by Friday when I box myself into
| a schedule like this, which makes enjoying the weekend feel
| like a chore.
| robust-cactus wrote:
| So sleep well and avoid dementia but stop sleeping to avoid
| depression
| hihungryimdad wrote:
| I have experience with this and commented on a similar thread in
| 2018.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16557500#16558442
|
| Update if anyone cares: I feel like I'm damn near 100%.
| tomcam wrote:
| None of that worked for me but the important thing is...
| WONDERFUL that you're still on track! Thanks for sharing and
| congrats.
| ineedasername wrote:
| Not for me. I think this will vary by person, especially as
| causes of depression vary and the whole phenomena is not fully
| understood.
|
| But for me, depression can be bouts of fatigue and lethargy, but
| also are sometimes accompanied by crippling thoughts off.. well,
| things that keep me awake. And losing an entire nights sleep like
| that was not at all helpful. I felt just as bad or worse, only
| with some additional things related to sleep loss mixed in.
|
| That said, I also know (not from experience) that even in
| "normal" people, skipping too much sleep can produce minor bouts
| of mania (where mania can vary from highly unpleasant to highly
| energetic/productive/euphoric) so it does make sense to me that
| some depressed patients response positively to it.
| tomcam wrote:
| Not for me either. But my insomnia is incredibly bad.
| Daunk wrote:
| Huh, so maybe that's why I felt like my depression was better in
| my younger years, cause I slept less?
| arkades wrote:
| We have known about sleep deprivation causing a remission in
| suicidal ideation for a while - we have inferred a depression
| benefit as well, but it's nice to have it quantified.
|
| However, we also know resumption of sleep pretty quickly ends the
| effect. It's not a sustainable intervention, so much as it an
| interesting finding for hypothesis generation.
|
| We also see the reverse effect in mania; on balance, regular
| healthy sleep wins the day.
| philipov wrote:
| Isn't that just a hypomanic episode?
| jrflowers wrote:
| For those that enjoy sleep, smoke salvia instead!
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2721268/
| pedalpete wrote:
| The impact of sleep restriction on depression has been known for
| decades (though most of the research I'm seeing is from late
| 2010s on [1], this link says "from the beginning of the last
| century [2])
|
| However, sleep deprivation as a treatment needs to be balanced
| with the health impact of sleep deprivation itself.
|
| A single night of lost sleep can have significantly detrimental
| impact on long-term health. Insulin response tanks, cortisol
| levels increase, HRV decreases, and this becomes a viscious
| cycle. In addition to increased beta-amyloid deposits associated
| with Alzheimers [3].
|
| [1] https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-
| releases/2017/septemb... [2]
| https://www.minervamedica.it/en/journals/minerva-psychiatry/...
| [3] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-
| matters/sleep-d...
| Zetobal wrote:
| I am bipolar and when I am in an depressive episode I use the
| same technique the lift the burden a bit
| havblue wrote:
| Now that I'm thinking about this, you can pull in an all-nighter
| on Thursday then wfh on Friday and just catch up on sleep over
| the weekend. People at work won't mind and the wife and kids will
| be okay as long as you're caught up for Saturday. This was timely
| advice.
| arthurofbabylon wrote:
| In my life, I've observed occasional sleepless nights (one night
| per 1-3 month period) to coincide with positive moods, abundant
| activity, and a general sense of fulfillment. And when my mood
| and motivation drops, I reflect back and recall that it's been a
| while since I've enjoyed a sleep-free night.
|
| I've always conceived of this as a consequence of being highly
| dynamic - my system is being stretched/pushed/twisted/strained by
| skipping sleep [1] - and a correlation to generally being
| enthusiastic about what's going on (I stayed up all night in the
| first place because I was obsessed with a fun problem). Of
| course, it is difficult to parse cause/effect/correlation, so I'm
| aware of the limits of these observations [2]. However, from the
| beginning I've felt confident that these sleepless nights were
| part of a broader pattern of good health.
|
| [1] - As a general rule, I find "stress" to be healthy if it is
| acute (but survivable!) and unhealthy if it is chronic. This case
| (sleep) fits the rule... infrequent sleepless nights have a net
| positive effect, and prolonged sleep deprivation (even mild) is
| absolutely terrible for pretty much all aspects of health.
|
| [2] - In observing my sense of happiness, I consider "seasons,"
| or 3-6 months periods, so the previous analysis is actually quite
| feasible. Do I wake up motivated? Do I feel pleasure lying down
| to sleep? Am I being kind to the people in my life? Do I enjoy
| interacting with acquaintances? Do I feel capable? To me these
| questions offer clarity on some rough level of happiness, and
| makes possible an imperfect analysis of the effects of something
| like a sleepless night or other lifestyle change. It's not
| perfect - but it doesn't need to be perfect, as it is already a
| more effective analysis than the alternative (no analysis at
| all).
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