[HN Gopher] My Rude-Ass Car
___________________________________________________________________
My Rude-Ass Car
Author : isoprophlex
Score : 134 points
Date : 2023-11-01 17:52 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.neverbeclever.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.neverbeclever.org)
| changoplatanero wrote:
| on my car you can disable the audible alerts for many of these
| features and i think you can disable the safety features entirely
| if you so desire
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Sadly, in this case, the DINGs when starting the engine are
| hardcoded. The blind spot and lane departure system can be
| turned off, but forcefully turns back on when you restart the
| engine.
| vrosas wrote:
| Any reason you're hiding the make/model of the car?
| isoprophlex wrote:
| It seemed unimportant during the writing of that admittedly
| hyperbolic post because I think I'm having the perfect
| median 2023 new car experience; other than that no reason,
| it's a Kia Ceed. I'm probably getting a beat up 2003
| volkswagen next.
| shortcake27 wrote:
| I own a 2001 Corolla in a country I don't even live in
| any more. I put it into storage just to be able to use it
| when I visit, because it's more reliable, more practical,
| and infinitely less infuriating than literally anything
| sold in the past 15 years. Car cost me under $3k,
| 310,000kms on the original manual transmission and no
| issues. Meanwhile, 3 year old Subaru's are requiring
| $10,000 transmission replacements because manufacturers
| still can't build CVTs that last more than 80,000kms, and
| won't sell you a manual any more.
| LesZedCB wrote:
| lol, i have never understood the issue with toggles resetting
| on engine-off. like, what toggle EVER would you want that
| for?
| lozenge wrote:
| It's probably meant for when the sensors malfunction and
| you want to drive it to the nearest approved repair shop.
| continuational wrote:
| I think the reason is that you come to rely on the safety
| features, and if somebody else drives your car and turns it
| off, you're more likely to get in an accident now that it
| doesn't DING you.
| metabagel wrote:
| It must be for liability. It's not for you. It's to protect
| the automaker.
| lukas099 wrote:
| Is it a recent model year? If so, what make and model if you
| don't mind me asking?
| hellotheretoday wrote:
| Some manufacturers don't allow this. My partner got a 22 Subaru
| forester and the audible alerts cannot be turned off without
| disabling the system altogether. although to be fair they are
| relative unobtrusive most of the time unless they are critical
|
| This is a disturbing trend though. The car has in cabin cameras
| to identify the driver. So if I drive it I'm recognized and the
| seat is adjusted automatically. Handy, right? However, they
| also have "features" like gestures to adjust the climate
| control where you make a fist in the air to adjust the
| temperature up. This is remarkably easy to false trigger. There
| is no way to turn it off except via the dealer who assured us
| at delivery that it could be turned off (I was certain this
| feature would be stupid and annoying during test drive and was
| right). However, it's still on a year later because none of
| their stupid techs can figure out how to turn it off. We almost
| want to return the car over this. It's very frustrating to be
| driving down the highway and having a discussion and suddenly
| the heat is set to 80F because you talk with your hands.
| Absolutely moronic design
|
| I get a lack of ability to disable alerts and controls for the
| stuff related to autonomous driving/lane assist/acc/etc; I'm
| sure that's rife with legal liability and allowing the system
| to work without alerts has some lawyer on their team all
| freaked out. But hvac control schemes?? Seriously??
| RecycledEle wrote:
| If you buy a car then they later ask you to accept a new TOS you
| should be able to refuse and return the car for a full refund.
|
| You thought you had a contract with them, then they made you a
| counter offer. Under the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) I think
| you have the right to refuse and get your money back.
| saghm wrote:
| You should also be able to refuse and _not_ return the car but
| keep using it under the original terms that you actually signed
| with
| dylan604 wrote:
| They should be forced to have separate updates for
| fixes/updates and another for new features. fixes/updates
| should not require new ToS, and should be possible to auto-
| update for safety reasons. new features should be forced to
| wait for an intentional agree to update before installing.
| indentit wrote:
| The problem here is that new features often involve some
| refactoring work. Then, if you didn't opt for feature X,
| the company isn't going to go out of their way to make and
| ship and maintain a fix for the old non-refactored version,
| so if you want fixes, there is no way to get them without
| feature X... Unless they are using feature flags of course,
| but then no fixes/updates are exactly "safe" for the
| combination of features agreed to.
| maxerickson wrote:
| It's a perfectly manageable problem. We just have to tell
| them they have to manage it.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| This shit is so hilarious, it's a Kia... as Mozilla recently
| researched, they have updated their TOS to include storing
| "sexual orientation". What the hell do you need that info for?
| Why even expose yourself, as a company, to the potential public
| shaming once someone finds out that on page 542 of your new
| terms it says "we want to know what turns you on"?
| lsaferite wrote:
| Out of curiosity, what model?
|
| I have a 2020 Telluride and while it has a lot of the
| features you list, I can also configure almost all of them.
| lb1lf wrote:
| This being enforced sure would put an end to TOS being revised.
| (Which, overall, would be a good thing.)
|
| What I dream about is consumer protection laws mandating that
| the car owner can simply opt out of whatever 'services' the car
| offers and then not be nagged about it.
|
| Just a large, friendly dialog box with the two options 'Sure,
| collect all the data you can about me, my passengers, my
| driving habits, the environs I drive in, and whatever
| inferences you may derive from collating data, including, but
| not limited to the above. The data will be sold to whoever are
| willing to pay us for them.' and 'Just leave me the heck
| alone!'
| isoprophlex wrote:
| I wrote this mostly to test-drive the awesome mataroa blogging
| platform. Wanted to write a short two paragraphs but once I got
| into it, there was no end to my pent up annoyance at the sorry
| state of car software UX.
| EdwardDiego wrote:
| Yes, yes, let the hate flow through you.
| elzbardico wrote:
| "Demented Tamagotchi on Wheels"
|
| You made my day with this. As the other guy said, just let the
| hate flow.
| oneepic wrote:
| What is the make/model, so we can avoid/be wary of it?
| oneepic wrote:
| also I suck with car knowledge, but I believe the hot tire
| pressure is different from when they're cold. Perhaps the
| car's software doesn't take that into account?
| doubled112 wrote:
| I believe air pressure increases with temperature, which
| shouldn't set off a low pressure warning.
|
| I wonder which style of tire pressure monitoring they're
| using.
|
| One is to measure the output from the wheel speed sensors.
| A difference in speed is assumed to mean a difference in
| size. A smaller tire must be a low tire.
|
| The other is to have actual sensors in the tires that read
| pressures. They're usually paired to the car.
|
| I have a set of tires (with sensors) in the garage that my
| car will pick up from the driveway. The sensor reads and
| everything looks great. The alarm will go off to tell me
| the sensor isn't reading anymore a few KMs from home, and
| it is correct.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Raising the temp raises the tire pressure, so that
| definitely shouldn't cause a low pressure warning.
|
| But, broadly speaking, definitely sounds like they didn't
| take something into account w.r.t. hot tire pressure. Maybe
| the tire sensors are throwing a warning because the temp is
| too high, and the software is incorrectly displaying it as
| a _low_ pressure warning, or... or some other hellish
| combination of failure.
| ragingrobot wrote:
| > the software is incorrectly displaying it as a low
| pressure warning
|
| The post doesn't specify if the display actually says low
| pressure, or if the TPMS warning light comes on, which
| _we_ usually interpret as low pressure (most common
| case). If it is the TPMS light, I 'm sure that's more of
| an "out of range" warning than "low pressure."
| theandrewbailey wrote:
| Yeah, friction heats the tires (and air inside them) when
| being driven, more so with more speed and time, creating
| extra pressure in the tires. I've had my car complain to me
| about tire pressure a handful of times, only to check the
| pressure and noticed 3 more PSI than usual in one tire, all
| others OK.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| I edited the post to contain that info (a Kia Ceed) as I'd
| want to avoid that myself too. But sadly I think that means
| avoiding 90% of all new cars nowadays...
| ghostly_s wrote:
| seriously, why would you avoid naming whilst shamung?
| alexstore06 wrote:
| Very entertaining.
|
| Many features can be disabled, and most allow you to do things
| the old way (e.g., closing the trunk manually), but some features
| either block you from doing things any other way or making it
| extremely difficult to do the old way, for example minivans with
| power doors make make it very difficult to open a door manually
| and refuse to open when the vehicle is not in park.
|
| Old cars have their own drawbacks, but at least they're not
| bossy.
| svilen_dobrev wrote:
| > infotainment unit
|
| oh. mine has exactly 5,000 slots for mp3 filenames. Not seeing
| more. A 2022 top-model car. And that "supercomputer" boots in
| freaking 35+seconds.. Well, i have 35000 songs to listen to. so..
| Bundle them together.. LP-sides-like.
|
| Zuruck in zukunft?
| karmakurtisaani wrote:
| I bet it's shit on purpose. Now, if you pay 5000 euros more for
| the premium model, you'll get 10 times more songs and boot in
| 10 seconds (I.e., they'll flip the premium model flag bit in
| the car software)!
| svilen_dobrev wrote:
| it was a top-ever model. No further premiums. comeon, who can
| fit more than 5000 pieces on a 256Gb USB stick?
|
| but, i forgot these ones..
|
| > goddamn tires
|
| ah yes. ding.. it complains about tire pressure being
| different. Nah, it won't tell which tire. Or how much (1% or
| 10% or 70%).
|
| So if you see me suddenly stopping in empty mid highway, and
| walking 3 times around the car kicking each tire 2 times
| _exactly_ , that's a good omen.. when the sun heats on the
| left..
|
| > wiggling the wheel
|
| ah and this one. On a laser-straight highway. With perfectly
| aligned wheels and drive train. With 170km/h. You _must_
| wiggle the steering wheel.. or you 'll be ding-donged to
| insanity. Safety first?
| hotnfresh wrote:
| > ah yes. ding.. it complains about tire pressure being
| different. Nah, it won't tell which tire. Or how much (1%
| or 10% or 70%).
|
| I've given up on tire pressure sensors. Our tire pressure
| alert light is probably on 50% of the time.
|
| Check tires, half the time they all read fine. They all
| look fine. They're OK, then the temp drops 10 degrees F,
| now the light's on. Man, I just can't be bothered. Tell me
| which the fuck tire you're worried about (which you
| _fucking know_!) and I 'll start paying attention again.
| The guessing game is no fun.
| andrelaszlo wrote:
| Thank you, this makes me appreciate my rusty old Saab even more.
| It's in the shop a few weeks every year, but it seems like it's
| worth it!
| flashback2199 wrote:
| New cars with minimal electronics do exist on the US market, but
| they are on the low end. Still, saving a lot of money and having
| no annoying features might make them worth considering.
| stinos wrote:
| I'm driving a dumb car. It's getting old, showing its age, opens
| by putting a physical key into the door. It has like zero
| annoyances (except f'ng over the climate I guess). It has
| buttons. It has a radio with buttons I can control without having
| to take my eyes fo the road. The radio is probably the most
| sophisticated piece of electronics in it, gladly connecting with
| everything sensible because it has a line-in jack. tldr; the car
| plainly and simply _just works_ and is a tool with an awesome
| utility value for me (especially nice is that given the age we
| don 't care at all anymore about scratches, so I can literally
| throw my bike in and not care).
|
| Now, the sad thing is: this should be _normal_. And 20 years or
| so ago, this would have been just a normal car amongst most
| others. Today, compared with cars like the one in OP 's rant,
| it's as if my dumb cheap ugly car is a feature for behaving the
| way it does. The other sad thing being that a lot of people don't
| seem to realize this. Like, waiting for your trunk to close is
| somehow a good thing. I'll probably won't get a car anymore when
| this one breaks down (yes, I know I'm lucky I can get away with
| that, stil..). I don't want to feel getting annoyed and dumbed
| down by something which should be my tool, not the other way
| around.
| 303uru wrote:
| I'd love to be car free again, I spent 5-ish years exclusively
| riding my bike and I miss it like crazy.
|
| I had a 95 Camry that I loved to death until it died
| spectacularly on I70 outside of Vail. Then I had an Audi RS3
| that was fun to floor from time to time but otherwise annoyed
| the hell out me. The tech was absolute crap, everything was
| overly complicated, just annoying. I now has a Model 3 and
| despite having the most tech of them all, it does it
| astonishingly well. I have all the climate controls set to auto
| and I have not touched them in three years. The car
| preheats/cools at a set time every morning so when I get in
| with the kids it's comfy. I never think about gas or
| maintenance. I don't even need to remember to grab a key. You
| literally get in with your phone in your pocket, put it in
| drive and go, using only one pedal to drive. In the weirdest
| way it's the best dumb car I've driven (and I was a freelance
| automotive reviewer reviewing 2-3 cars a week for almost 10
| years).
| rickreynoldssf wrote:
| I just bought a Mazda MX5. I love the car but utterly loathe the
| "entertainment system". When it isn't hanging/crashing (which it
| does about once a week) it prevents using any of the screen
| controls while the car is moving. Instead you need to take your
| eyes off the road longer to use a physical dial to scroll to the
| control you want to press. Oh and this weekend I kept getting
| warnings about high-wind conditions 200 miles away from me that I
| could not close at all while the car was moving, meanwhile no
| music and no GPS.
|
| I just don't understand how whoever approves this thinks it's a
| good idea. It seems to be this way across almost all Mazda
| models. There used to be a way to turn that off but Mazda removed
| that. So there are indeed people actively making this moronic
| behavior a thing.
| narag wrote:
| My last car was a previous version. I was able to disable the
| change lane warning and other annoyances and didn't use any
| "infotainment" except connecting the phone or plugging a USB
| stick with MP3s. No GPS either.
|
| The change lane warning was terrible. In a busy city it was
| totally wrong: approaching the line in anticipation of changing
| lanes is unavoidable. It also triggered when another vehicle
| behind was approaching still very far away. I tried to come to
| terms with the system, but I had to disable it all eventually.
|
| I'm afraid of buying a new one. If all that crap is impossible
| to disable, I refuse to pay for it.
| lsaferite wrote:
| > disable the change lane warning
|
| Does Mazda not disable the lane change warning when you use a
| turn signal?
| 0x457 wrote:
| It does.
| vtbassmatt wrote:
| I have a 2021 MX-5. The dealer had to do a software update
| recently which fixed most of the hanging/crashing bugs in the
| infotainment system. It also fixed a very weird issue where
| Google Maps would be 5-20 seconds behind on CarPlay (meaning I
| frequently missed my turn!).
|
| The weather alert thing is super annoying, but it can be
| disabled. I had to re-disable it after the infotainment update,
| presumably because they disconnected the battery. I wish I
| remembered which random place I had to go in the UI to disable
| it... IIRC it was hidden in the settings for traffic or
| something?!?
|
| Edit: It's buried in Sirius settings. I don't subscribe to
| Sirius, so I wouldn't have thought to go there, except I had
| exhausted all other options.
| 0x457 wrote:
| Hard disagree. My MX5 is my favorite car I had in the last 10
| years.
|
| My only gripe with it: Car Play crashes sporadically, while
| Android Auto works just fine, also why Wi-Fi isn't working for
| AA?
|
| Not once have I used it as a touch screen or taken my eyes off
| the road to use a physical dial. You know where I did have to
| do it? In my Jeep that is only touch screen and buttons don't
| remember what I'm currently using unlike MX5 _. Also, those
| high wind warnings are far more annoying in Jeep than in Miata.
|
| _ : If I'm using car's radio and Car Play's Google Maps -
| pressing the nav button will bring Google Maps and pressing the
| media button will bring the car's radio. While in some cars, it
| will always bring the car's version of utility or always Car
| Play/AA version.
| tristor wrote:
| I just bought a brand new Mazda3 (2024 model year) and picked it
| up on Monday. I am able to disable all of the features you're
| mentioning on this car, and I can also choose whether alerts are
| only visual in the HUD or if they are visual + audible.
|
| The only thing I can't disable is the ding when you start the car
| without first having your driver's seatbelt buckled, which does
| annoy the shit out of me because it's a turbo car and I want to
| give it a few seconds of warm-up before driving to be nicer to
| it, which I do while getting settled. I always wear a seatbelt,
| but I buckle it last before I start driving, not first when I
| first get in the car.
|
| Otherwise it seems pretty great. It was very annoying off the
| lot, but 20 minutes with the owner's manual in my driveway and I
| made it tolerable while keeping all the advance technology.
|
| Maybe I'll find additional annoyances over time, this is my first
| car I've owned with all the new-fangled safety technology
| designed for normies who can't drive properly.
| csours wrote:
| Some of those dings are mandatory
| tristor wrote:
| I'm guessing the driver's seatbelt ding is one of the
| mandatory ones. Thanks to the 99% of terrible drivers in the
| US and our incompetent regulators, we get enforced mandatory
| enshittification.
| HnUser12 wrote:
| I think they can optimize the ding to be tolerable. I own
| Subaru in Canada and it only dings me for seatbelts after I
| starting moving faster than 20kmph.
|
| Even if the regulations require a ding for any speed, I
| assume it doesn't need to ding when in park.
| tristor wrote:
| That would have been a significant improvement. But
| compared to the OPs experience in the link, I am okay
| with my current level of frustration. This is a small
| item to be bothered by.
| rovolo wrote:
| You're correct about it being mandatory:
|
| > At the left front designated seating position (driver's
| position), a warning system that activates a continuous or
| intermittent audible signal for a period of not less than 4
| seconds and not more than 8 seconds and that activates a
| continuous or flashing warning light visible to the driver
| for not less than 60 seconds (beginning when the vehicle
| ignition switch is moved to the "on" or the "start"
| position) when condition (A) exists simultaneously with
| condition (B) ...
|
| > (A) The vehicle's ignition switch is moved to the "on"
| position or to the "start" position.
|
| > (B) The driver's automatic belt is not in use, as
| determined by the belt latch mechanism not being fastened,
| ...
|
| https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/part-571/section-571.
| 2...
| scohesc wrote:
| That is insanely frustrating.
|
| Does the car turn itself off if you're in park and undo your
| seatbelt?
| tristor wrote:
| No. But if you ever remove your seatbelt while it's on, it
| immediately starts dinging, even if you're in park with the
| parking brake set (which is an electronic parking brake). It
| typically takes me around 20-30 seconds to get settled before
| I drive after I get in the car, and for that entire time it
| dings every 5 seconds until I buckle the seatbelt.
|
| For someone that is obsessive about safety and is a skilled
| driver, it feels like some type of indictment that my vehicle
| is insulting me and accusing me of wanting to drive without a
| seatbelt, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
| neogodless wrote:
| Same. Have a 2023 CX-5. Spouse disables the lane guidance. I
| can live with it.
|
| The seat belt chime is too damn loud and persistent. And it
| seems crazy that it chimes even with the car in park!
| izacus wrote:
| In EU, the 2024 Mazda3s now have to comply with new directive
| where they DING every time you go slightly over the speed
| limit. What they think is a speed limit (which is commonly
| inaccurate due to bad nav data or bad sign recognition data).
|
| DING.
| tristor wrote:
| In the US, you can turn the ding or visual indicator off. You
| can also adjust when the notification happens. I kept it to
| visual only and set it to alert when I went more than 5MPH
| over the speed limit, because I want to help keep myself
| honest.
|
| It's disappointing it's forced to ding in the EU. In the US,
| there are many roads where you /must/ drive over the speed
| limit or you become a road obstruction that is actually
| putting yourself and others at risk. As an example, several
| Interstate highways have sections that drop to 65MPH through
| major metros but outside of high-traffic periods, the
| established speed is 80MPH on these, just as it is on other
| sections of the same Interstate (where the speed limit is
| likely 75MPH).
| interstice wrote:
| So far my newest car is a 2006 BMW with just enough electronics
| to be helpful but not so much I get the constant noises I've had
| when renting anything newer. Amazingly nothing major has let go
| yet.
|
| Did enjoy renting a Tesla Model 3 but I can't stand the 'modern
| minimal apartment' driving experience, give me a Supra style wrap
| around cockpit or give me death.
|
| What I came to say though, is this is making me want to restomod
| my way through the rest of my car ownership career, I'm almost
| done with a 1981 Mini but after that putting tesla motors and pi
| driven dashboards in cars exclusively from pre 2010 has a growing
| appeal.
| s1gnp0st wrote:
| Settings you can't access from the UI of your car can often be
| changed by purchasing an OBD2 cable and using the config software
| for your car brand.
|
| One of the first things I do with a new Toyota is pop open
| Techstream. Just don't break your engine by fiddling with things
| other than cabin light delays, car alarms, etc.
| lacoolj wrote:
| For others wondering, the article refers to a Kia Ceed
| freitzkriesler2 wrote:
| Damn the author hit the experience on my head. I was (forced)
| into an electric car rental by Hertz and it was one of the most
| awful experiences I had. Brand escapes me now, but it did
| everything the author was ranting about. I'm glad it was only a
| rental.
|
| The nice thing I love about my bmw is the coding apps that exist
| for it. The first thing I did was code the car to not chime at me
| for a seat belt and more importantly, not throw up a warning
| message on the infotainment system.
|
| I've edited more things using that coding app too but having the
| ability to do that is important to me.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| This is a real cycle of suck.
|
| An auto is complex and it's very hard, if not impossible, to
| figure out how nice or annoying it's going to be until you've
| really spent some serious time with it.
|
| So automakers make these infuriating cars, and people buy them
| because it's hard to tell how infuriating they are, but by then
| it's too late for the customer, and so the automaker is never
| properly incentivized to make their things suck less.
| erulabs wrote:
| It's astonishing to me that car companies continue to push
| infotainment solutions like they do. It's clearly outsourced to
| the cheapest possible development groups. Say what you will about
| Tesla, at least the center dash feels contemporary. I'm getting
| sick of it changing constantly, but on the other hand is my 2021
| Hondas computer which feels like it would have been pretty cool
| in 1994.
|
| You'd think BMW or Porsche would be the company to seriously
| invest in a Car OS, but it keeps not happening. I guess no one
| cares?
| kaftoy wrote:
| Mercedes is trying with MBOS.
| shortcake27 wrote:
| I'm currently renting a newish Fiat 500. If I open the drivers
| door when the Start/Stop system is engaged, the engine won't
| restart. I can't even turn the key to start the car - the key
| needs to be completely removed from the ignition and inserted
| again. Causing the infotainment system to go into a 30 second
| restart.
|
| Luckily there's a button that disables the system, which I need
| to remember to press if I need to get out of the car to open a
| gate or check I'm centered in a parking spot.
|
| I am really trying to understand what problem the engineers at
| Fiat were solving when they implemented this functionality. What
| is the "problem" with the engine restarting when the key is in
| the ignition in the on position, when I'm sat in the seat, all
| doors closed, clutch depressed, while the car is still in
| neutral.
|
| "Oh no! The driver is going to be really confused if they leave
| the key in the ignition, open the door for three seconds, then
| get back into the car, and the engine starts when they press the
| clutch like it would if they didn't open the door. Better brick
| the entire car until the key is completely removed and reinserted
| into the ignition."
| mavamaarten wrote:
| Very recognizable!
|
| I've driven quite a lot of different cars over the years, and
| every one has had the same and different flaws like these.
|
| My current car (Audi) has a system that connects with other
| Audi's in the neighborhood and warns for "dangers" ahead. It
| cannot be disabled, not even temporarily. Those dangers are
| completely normal situations, unfortunately. It warns for
| "limited visibility" aka there is some light fog, but in practice
| this warning triggers every time there is some sun shining in the
| camera sensor. Another warning is slippery road, which is
| triggered when you plant your foot down and lose some traction
| (aka classic Audi driver behavior in my city).
|
| The result is that almost every drive, even with perfectly sunny
| weather, you get a loud beep (the same beep as an engine check
| light or a flat tire warning) and a warning about poor visibility
| or slippery roads, which completely distracts you. It's bonkers.
| Why can't I disable this? I've seriously thought about pulling
| the SIM card in my car to break all network-enabled features.
| driverdan wrote:
| A friend of mine has a 2023 Audi. Some of the front sensors are
| already damaged from normal driving. Apparently any scratches
| cause them to become unreliable.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Ha, even my Model 3 doesn't do any of this (or at least it can
| all be disabled so you don't see or hear it). I'd be irritated if
| there weren't ways to disable all that misbehavior.
|
| Fortunately there are still plenty of cars you can buy brand new
| today that don't have this level of suck. No need to suffer with
| a 20 year old unsafe heap of a car.
| omginternets wrote:
| The amount of distraction in a modern car is staggering. You can
| be driving down the freeway and receive urgent sounding dings
| with no apparent cause. I can't wait for the lawsuits.
| local_crmdgeon wrote:
| This is an advertisement for the GMT800 platform - the greatest
| vehicles ever made.
|
| Not only do they not do this, they have 0 capability to do this.
| You can buy a "new" bed for $400, same with doors. Bought 2
| headlight assemblies for $25 recently. That set of repairs on a
| Rivian is $14,000.
| Supermancho wrote:
| Hyundai Tucson has most of these features, except they aren't
| rude. There are rude features.
|
| When you park the car and hit the pushbutton start/stop, it locks
| the back doors. Who thought this was a good idea?
|
| You want to circulate air? (because you are driving by the dump
| or in traffic) Push a button. It turns back to outside air after
| a time. Maybe this is to deter people from gassing themselves.
| What's that say about Hyundai owners, yikes!
| lsaferite wrote:
| The auto-revert on air recirculation is a new one for me. I
| have a Kia and I'm pretty sure the systems are identical, so
| I'm going to see if mine does the same.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| _It turns back to outside air after a time_
|
| My mini cooper does the same -- the online consensus seems to
| be that it does that to prevent moisture buildup inside the car
| fogging up the windows.
|
| But it sure is annoying during wildfire season when I'm trying
| to avoid poor air quality outside, I wish they had an override
| like if you hold the switch down for 5 seconds, it stays in
| that mode.
| pornel wrote:
| Switching to outside air after a while makes sense -- CO2
| levels in a small closed space quickly go up, and high CO2
| impairs concentration.
| kickofline wrote:
| Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/37/
| MilStdJunkie wrote:
| They can pry my 2005 Scion xB from my cold dead hands for this
| exact reason. Insanely light, manual shifter, manual everything,
| timing CHAIN, 30+ mpg, more internal space than a SUV, looks
| ridiculous. Check, check, and check.
|
| Mid nineties to mid aughts are the absolute high point for me,
| where you get all the technology but none of the heinous "you
| rent all your things" features that smear newer vehicles. The
| downside is dodging the mid-aughts quality hangover Honda seemed
| to have suffered in the period - really just fit and finish, but
| still annoying - and more importantly the long train of suck that
| was Hyundai Theta/Gamma family engines and derivatives. Hyundai
| reached a _leeeetle_ too far in the late aughts, with some sci-fi
| internal combustion tricks, but oof, that was a hard pill after
| their fantastic Delta V6s.
| downut wrote:
| They can't pry my 2001 v8 4wd 14mpg[1] Tundra bought new for
| cash from _my_ cold dead hands because I am seriously thinking
| of when I die I get laid out in the bed and the whole shebang
| put in an enormous hole and buried somewhere. I 'd prefer if it
| was hauled out by helicopter over the Pacific somewhere and
| oops dropped.
|
| 125K miles, 3rd suspension, zero problems, manual windows, door
| locks, seats mirrors, everything. The odometer seems to be
| digital. It even passes GA emissions now.
|
| [1] It was so... _liberating_ when we started buying Priuses
| and I discovered I could drive them like race cars and get
| 44mpg more or less reliably. X-country + urban miles almost all
| go there. The current 2015 is so comfortably very dumb.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| I have a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's new enough to have well-
| sorted fuel injection, good AC and heat, old enough to have
| zero tattletales, nags, and subscriptions. It has the best
| sightlines, is comfy and roomy on the inside, and frankly
| relatively compact compared to many of the behemoths on the
| road today. If it ever dies I'm really going to miss it!
| drcongo wrote:
| I've been keeping an eye out for an imported Toyota bB (same
| car but Japanese domestic market) for my daughter, fantastic
| little cars.
| chmod775 wrote:
| This had me wheezing. I'd love to read more in this style, but
| sadly that's their only post.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Thanks :) I'm taking that as encouragement to rant more in the
| future.
|
| Anyway I'm glad you got a laugh out if this. I stream-of-
| consciousness vomited this into a text file to test drive the
| mataroa blogging platform (highly recommended) -- I tried
| static blog generators (hugo, jekyll) but they were too clunky
| and took the joy out of writing. I discovered this solution
| through that person who posts all the spicy rants about the
| tech industry who's been pretty trendy on HN lately.
|
| [] https://ludic.mataroa.blog/
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| I recently got a 2023 Toyota Corolla. I've got my say my
| experience has mostly been the opposite, but I don't have the
| blind-spot alert or an auto-closing trunk.
|
| The closest thing I've encountered is mentioned here - the tire
| pressure alert is way too sensitive. Drop 1-2PSI below the
| nominal (which happens the moment the temperature drops) and it
| complains on startup. But it's brief and easy to ignore.
|
| Otherwise, it's been great! It never whines at me and does what I
| want.
|
| The lane keep assist still requiring input on stop is bizarre.
| Glad mine doesn't do that!
|
| Also: Fwiw, I think most collision detection systems immediately
| turn off the lane-keep-assist if something like that is detected
| to be about to occur. Plus, it doesn't 'fight' you very hard, if
| you put in any force at all it overrides it - at least on mine.
| Gare wrote:
| Blind-spot alert is very handy, but mine doesn't beep at all.
| Just inobtrusive yellow lights on A-pillars. If you signal a
| turn and there is a vehicle beside you, it flashes.
|
| If it beeped I would've gone mad too.
|
| So overall, it seems some manufactures integrated the new tech
| well, some did it poorly.
| jwiz wrote:
| You can set your mirrors to effectively have no blind spots.
|
| https://www.aarp.org/auto/driver-safety/car-mirrors-blind-
| sp...
|
| If a car comes up on the left lane (while I am in right), I
| can see it in rearview, then sidemirror + rearview, then in
| peripheral vision, the whole time.
|
| It is possible a very small and fast unicycle could find a
| place to hide, but a normal size car can't.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Pointing out how the author wants "a means to transport kids and
| their associated heaps of stuff around in a safe and relaxed
| manner" and yet cries when devices designed to prevent more guts
| and blood from spilling sound in alarm.
| garciansmith wrote:
| I seriously don't understand how people can stand to drive new
| cars. Every time I'm in one (e.g., a rental) I need to spend a
| ton of time figuring out how to turn tons of settings off just so
| the steering wheel won't randomly jerk or the car won't brake
| when I don't want to, to say nothing of the constant beeps and
| lights. A friend had an old Saab with a feature called "Black
| Panel" that turned off every gauge at night save what was
| absolutely necessary. It was so nice.
|
| When I needed a car two years ago I purposefully looked for one
| that didn't even have a full screen, figured all those annoyances
| would be reduced that way (which probably annoy me even more than
| the OP). The radio/infotainment does have bluetooth and an aux
| port, but just a simple two-line digital display, perfect for my
| needs as someone who thinks showing album art to a driver should
| be illegal. The car ended up being a stick shift, which I had
| never driven before so I had to get a friend to pick it up for me
| and teach me how to drive it. So worth it though: made me a
| better driver and now I actually enjoy being engaged while
| driving.
| stronglikedan wrote:
| When you're not renting them, the time spent learning how to
| use them is trivial compared to the time spend using them. A
| lot of those features are nice to have.
| garciansmith wrote:
| True, less an issue if you're the owner, and most can be
| turned off. And some of my comment is just me being baffled
| at the things people are ok with. Some people feel safer when
| the car brakes when it's X distance from one in front on a
| freeway, but a car not doing what I want to at all times
| freaks the hell out of me, even when it's fairly predictable.
|
| But I still find there are still tons of issues. People also
| get used to some of the beeps and flashes and don't realize
| how it breaks their attention, or how long it takes to do
| simple stuff on a giant touch screen. And I don't want a
| giant center console screen on when I'm driving a night, but
| if that screen is the only way I can control, say, the
| temperature, well then I'll need to go through extra steps
| and extra distractions.
| olyjohn wrote:
| But here's the thing I don't get. People don't learn how to
| use them. They won't read the manuals or give a shit. You,
| reading the manual and learning the car, are the exception.
|
| I can't count how many times I've ridden with someone in a
| new car, and they're like "I dunno..." Or I tell them about
| some feature they didn't even know the car had. It boggles my
| mind that you'd spend so much on some fancy vehicle and not
| try to get your money's worth.
| dekhn wrote:
| I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but I read the
| manual for my car (it's next to my toilet) and have
| navigated through every configuration menu in the various
| consoles.
|
| Even then I still had to watch a few videos to figure out
| how to change my charging rate. It was hidden behind a
| number of hard-to-find settings and is disabled (silently)
| in many car modes (basically you can only change it when
| you're in "car on but motors not running and not charging")
| xyzelement wrote:
| These are almost all reasonable...
|
| // Unlocking the doors...
|
| The reason they auto-close again is (presumably) because with a
| remote control it's very easy to accidentally unlock either with
| the keys in your pocket or because kids are playing with them.
| You don't want the car parked unlocked all week w/o you knowing
| if that happens.
|
| // Closing the trunk
|
| I think this is a combination of "why is my rear hatch door
| automatic now" and "why does it move slowly." The answer to the
| former I think is so you can open your trunk remotely and then
| grab and carry the stuff, and also to enable the short/weaker
| folks to operate the taller hatch door (vs a lower-trunk, which
| isn't what you have...) And then the reason the automatic hatch
| closes slowly is to not injure you or your child if you happen to
| not get out of the way quickly enough.
|
| // Starting the engine
|
| I think that audio-ding exists to alert you if a child has
| touched the start button, which they can obviously do with key-
| less ignition.
|
| // Using your turn signals
|
| This is the one that sounds truly wrong - if your car alerts you
| of adjacent vehicles when it shouldn't, (a) you can probably turn
| off that assist and (b) you should tell the company because it
| literally sounds like a bug.
|
| // Coming to a full stop
|
| Ditto for hands on the wheel during stop - sounds like a bug.
|
| // The goddamn tires themselves
|
| Yes sounds like you have flawed pressure sensors, go take the car
| to the dealer.
| mastazi wrote:
| I stopped paying attention to the alert sounds because they can
| be triggered for so many reasons and finding out why the sound
| is playing every time, would mean that I would be constantly
| distracted while driving. So, ignoring the warnings is actually
| the safer option in my case (2023 Toyota)
| xyzelement wrote:
| Funny, I have a '21 and find it reasonable.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| And this one makes perfect sense:
|
| _But, only if you put it in neutral first, refrain from even
| thinking about touching the accelerator pedal, and fully
| depress the clutch (even though you just put it in fucking
| neutral)_
|
| I always put the car in neutral _and_ press the clutch, before
| trying to start it, so wouldn 't even notice if the car
| enforced that... my car only enforces that the clutch be pushed
| down, but taking it out of gear is a good best practice for
| extra redundancy, for instance to protect against the case
| where the clutch hydraulic cylinder had a leak so the clutch
| didn't fully disengage)
| terryf wrote:
| Uh, none of these are good reasons. At best they are extremely
| rare and weird edge cases and good UX is not making the weird
| edge cases dominate the experience.
|
| I mean, how likely is it that you are in the car, NOT sitting
| in the front seat and a kid is sitting in the front seat and
| fiddling with the starter knob? I mean, even if they press the
| start button, then the car won't start unless you've also
| pressed the brake pedal? And if you're not sitting in the car
| while the kid is playing in it, then ... the beep does nothing
| anyway?
|
| Really, the constant beeping and maniacally locking the doors
| all the time is ridiculous.
|
| Also, can anyone explain why in the US if I click unlock on the
| remote, it just unlocks the front door? This keeps happening on
| rental cars. You have to click twice on unlock to get all the
| doors to open. Of course if I want to put something in the back
| seat, that means first breaking my fingers while pulling on the
| handle, then cursing and clicking the open button the remote 10
| times to makes sure the idiotic system has unlocked the doors.
| Which I wanted it to do in the first place.
|
| Really, the author of the article is 100% correct. The UX on
| most new mid-range cars is ridiculously bad.
| bitzun wrote:
| This is why I can't imagine buying a newer car than, say, 2014. I
| have mid 2010s Toyota which is cheap enough to not have any
| consumer hostile or fragile features, and a mid 2000s Honda with
| much the same. Aside from sheer destruction, there's not much
| damage or failure that will be worth it to me to buy a
| replacement vehicle for either. Like most Americans, I used to
| think cars are cool, but if either dies I'm going to replace them
| with the oldest piece of shit I can.
| klik99 wrote:
| For anyone who wonders why people like Teslas, despite all the
| bad press and public failings - it's because a lot of this "small
| stuff", the subtle UX touches, is done very well in Teslas.
| emmender1 wrote:
| this rant is similar to the one on modern hotel showers published
| today.
|
| https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/travel/hotel-showers-nate-barg...
| (behind paywall)
|
| the designers of these things are not the actual users, hence
| feature creep and pointless gadgetry that impede the main
| function
| metabagel wrote:
| A summary would be nice. I subscribe to three national
| newspapers, but the WSJ is not one of them (and never will be).
| Avamander wrote:
| At some point it's going to cause alert fatigue, is it not?
| tristor wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that point was about 5 years ago. I was
| recently in an Uber with a driver that ardently ignored every
| ding or alert from the car. Although, that's nothing new, it is
| basically standard fare to ride in Ubers with maintenance
| lights and check-engine lights on, at least in the US.
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| Recently started using a bakfiets style cargo bike and it is a
| game changer in terms of being able to not use/depend on a car.
| It's so nice being able to optionally carry another human or a
| ton of groceries and other stuff on my bike without messing
| around with panniers and racks.
|
| I really love how it makes doing regular stuff more fun, sort of
| similar to my enjoyment of driving the small Smart cars, except I
| can park it pretty much wherever.
| metabagel wrote:
| We're in the "uncanny valley" where the car can detect possibly
| dangerous situations, but not with any degree of certainty.
| psadauskas wrote:
| I have a 2014 Toyota Tacoma. I get in, start it, and its usually
| connected to my phone and playing the last podcast before I've
| even backed out of the garage.
|
| My wife's car is a 2015 Nissan. I get in, start it, and I'm out
| of the driveway and on the road before the infotainment system
| has finished booting, and I get to the stop sign before it
| discovers my phone and plays the podcast. And there's a 20%
| chance it fails to connect to my phone, and I have to stop at the
| side of the road and put it in park before I'm allowed to press
| the buttons to "forget" my phone and re-add it again.
|
| OTOH, my Tacoma is just a two-seater, so if I have any groceries
| or a dog in the passenger seat, the seatbelt alarm bings at me
| for a solid minute of driving before giving up. I usually just
| leave it buckled, and empty, because I haven't bothered figuring
| out how to disconnect it in the 10 years I've owned it.
| morsch wrote:
| Must be all those gallons and gallons of fuel that are boosting
| the in-car entertainment.
| taylodl wrote:
| My 2015 Honda Civic LX was the same as your 2014 Toyota Tacoma.
| Turn it on, it'd connect to my iPhone in 2 seconds, and start
| playing. It was actually a nice car.
|
| I've rented lots of different cars. I've never had an issue
| getting my phone to connect to them, and whenever I start the
| car my phone has connected in a few seconds. Haven't noticed
| alarms and alerts beeping and popping up or any of that
| nonsense people are talking about here. Is it certain makes
| having these issues and I just haven't rented these makes?
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _and its ... playing the last podcast before_
|
| I never want this. I fill with rage when a car automatically
| starts playing things without asking. Yes, it's true, a week
| ago I listened to something. That was not an invitation for the
| car to start playing it now.
| psadauskas wrote:
| For me at least, that's the right thing. I do get a bit
| annoyed that it'll sometimes play some random youtube video I
| happened to be watching on my phone instead of the podcast,
| but that's Apple's fault, not Toyota's. I wish there was a
| way to configure "preferred audio app when connected to this
| bluetooth device" in the setting somewhere.
|
| But I think playing the last podcast automatically is the
| right thing. Just like if I have it switched to the radio
| when I turned it off, when I turn it back on it goes back to
| radio, turned to the same station. I'd be annoyed if I had to
| hit the infotainment power button every time, even though I
| just turned the car on.
| maxerickson wrote:
| It should just be easy to set (no autoplay or auto continue
| or whatever).
|
| My main use case is music on a short commute. Yes, I want it
| to start automatically playing as soon as it can. I don't
| want to mess with my phone.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Right there with you. And it's never instant, either. Some
| time (and it's random, not consistent!) between +5 and +30
| seconds after I start the car, I _will_ get some random song
| /podcast/voicemail playing, usually when I'm trying to focus
| on something else. I hate this behavior so much. Doubly-so in
| that I can't turn it off.
| g105b wrote:
| Every time I started my 1999 Punto, I'd be greeted with "Ze
| Blautoof dewiyise has connected-a-successfuwwy"
| karaterobot wrote:
| At some point, they stopped being able to sell new model years by
| innovating on things that matter, and they had to just cram in a
| bunch of electronics, touch screens, and dubious safety features
| so they could show forward progress. I would love if (more)
| manufacturers just said "nope, what you're buying when you buy
| our new car is unused parts, and a fresh coat of paint--not new
| features. This is the same car we've been refining for the last
| 10 years. We got it basically right the first time, and there
| hasn't been a need to mess with it."
|
| I suppose that the savings in manufacturing, part sourcing, and
| R&D costs would be non-trivial, but that you'd lose sales to
| people who actually do think that a slightly bigger touch screen
| or a yellow light that goes off when your passenger farts is
| important and will spend extra money on it. And that's one reason
| we're where we are today.
| brundolf wrote:
| I've heard that Teslas are some of the only cars where nonzero
| thought was put into the overall UX. That on its own is enough to
| put them on my radar
|
| Are there any other brands people have had good (or not-bad)
| experiences with?
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| The luxury branch of the OEM will put the most thought into the
| UX. You do need to pay up for software polishing.
| brundolf wrote:
| From what I've heard this is not true. I.e. I've heard Lexus
| has some of the worst in-car software out there
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| I think you're refrenceing the borked remote update? That
| was bad, but it seems like it was a one-off, lesson learned
| event.
| brundolf wrote:
| No, I've specifically heard that the infotainment system
| is worse than average
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Lexus has CarPlay and Android Auto. The infotainment is a
| pipe of the OS from your phone to the vehicle screen.
| There are still buttons that take time to work into
| muscle memory and light customization, but that vaires
| for every user.
| speedgoose wrote:
| If you are allergic to Tesla, I think BMW can offer a descent
| user experience. If you ignore the silly feature such as the
| possibility to draw letters on the navigation pad like it's a
| palm pilot from the 90s. The system feels a bit dated but it's
| a good dated system.
|
| I also think Tesla is ahead, even after they removed the
| stalks. But they could do better. Maybe the UX engineers need a
| trip to Europe and expect having to use the blinkers in
| roundabouts.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Sounds like shit. I have a Subaru Forester 2018 and everything is
| configurable:
|
| 1. Auto-lock is a feature to configure. I've never used it.
|
| 2. You can use the trunk button to slow-close or you can just
| close it by hand.
|
| 3. Starting the car does chime. Same as his.
|
| 4. You can turn off the blind spot detection if it's over-
| sensitive.
|
| 5. The lane-keeper stays on in traffic, but the auto-cruise will
| turn off.
|
| 6. Tyre pressure works fine.
|
| 7. If I open the door with engine running, it will chime. I want
| this. It also won't lock with the keys inside and will chime for
| that too. I want that too.
| 0x457 wrote:
| > 7. If I open the door with engine running, it will chime. I
| want this. It also won't lock with the keys inside and will
| chime for that too. I want that too.
|
| I need this. I got used to my hybrid just turning off if I open
| the door while parked.
| jmull wrote:
| > Edit: for the record, this is about a Kia Ceed SW, but it's not
| that important because I'm sure 90% of all 2023 cars run on the
| CAN bus equivalent of a 10.000 line, 100 cell Jupyter Notebook
| that was last restarted in the fall of 2018.
|
| For what it's worth, my fairly recently new car (bought new two
| years ago) has none of these problems. Not that it's perfect, but
| all these user hostile features might be more of a Kia issue than
| a new car issue.
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| My kia ceed has most of the described features, they work fine
| 97 percent of the time. Those 3 percent can be a bit annoying
| but it is not so bad as described and you get used to it
| quickly. You quickly learn the first step is to close doors and
| fasten seatbelt to avoid some blings. The steering aid is
| subtle enough that you can easily turn against it and is very
| easy to turn on and off using a physical button on... the
| steering wheel. It also has a very good rear camera and NO
| distance beeps, just the way I like it.
| Jemm wrote:
| Rented a VW in Europe. It had the feature where it turned off the
| engine every time you stopped which I hate; so I read the owners
| manual and turned that feature off. At the end of the trip, I
| turned the car off and it would never start again. Rental company
| had to come with a flatbed and tow it away.
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| My new Honda is actually not that bad. Auto relock is more like
| 30 seconds and possibly can be disabled (haven't gone carefully
| through the menus) and most of the other nonsense in that article
| is absent.
|
| About the only major annoyance - and that's optional since the
| keyfob still has lock/unlock buttons - is that walk away autolock
| works about 9 times out of 10 - so you always always have to
| listen for the click of the locks - and that the touch sensors on
| the front door handles, which are supposed to toggle between
| locked and not, often decide that you want to lock your already
| locked car 3-4x in a row before finally unlocking. You could, of
| course, use the keyfob, but everything about the car trains you
| to just keep that in a zipped pocket.
| DamnInteresting wrote:
| On the subject of automobiles making strange assumptions, my
| Chevy Bolt EV has a "feature" that I have never been able to
| understand:
|
| The car has 2 drive modes: "D" and "L". The "D" mode mimics an
| automatic ICE car--it creeps forward when one lets off the brake,
| and coasts for a long time when one lets off the accelerator. I
| always drive the car in "L" mode, which is the aggressive
| regenerative braking mode. When I let off the gas it slows to a
| stop quickly (assuming the battery is not near full charge). And
| it does not creep when I release the brake.
|
| But there is one bizarre exception: If I power on the car and put
| it in "L" mode, but I haven't yet fastened my seat belt, the car
| will creep forward when I let off the brake, just like in D. This
| has caught me off guard a few times, but I've always caught it
| and hit the brakes before the car rolled into my garage door or a
| car parked in front of me.
|
| I once brought it up on /r/BoltEV, and someone claiming to be a
| Chevrolet engineer told me this behavior was by design, but had
| no good justification for it.
| terryf wrote:
| Fantastic post. Really, the UX in most new mid-range cars is
| terrible.
|
| Also, can anyone explain why in the US if I click unlock on the
| remote, it just unlocks the front door? This keeps happening on
| rental cars. You have to click twice on unlock to get all the
| doors to open. Of course if I want to put something in the back
| seat, that means first breaking my fingers while pulling on the
| handle, then cursing and clicking the open button on the remote
| 10 times to makes sure the idiotic system has unlocked ALL the
| doors. Which I wanted it to do in the first place.
| spdustin wrote:
| It's in case you're alone, and prevents someone else from being
| able to jump into the passenger seat and carjack you. Most new
| cars have a customization option to change that behavior.
| terryf wrote:
| Riiight. Or they could just carjack me when I'm getting in
| the driver's seat? Or putting my stuff in the trunk? Or while
| walking towards the car?
|
| It's just silly. But thank you for explaining.
| jwiz wrote:
| If you are sitting in your car and they yank open the
| passenger door and jump in, they can get a lot closer to
| you, faster, than they can if they approach you while you
| are outside your car.
| thedanbob wrote:
| I recently drove around the UK for a couple of weeks in late
| model VW Golf. It was by far the most infuriating car I've ever
| had the displeasure of dealing with. The highlights: adaptive
| cruise control that sometimes follows not only the car in front
| of you but the car(s) to either side (preventing you from
| passing); cruise control automatically changing when you enter a
| reduced speed area (really fun when you're doing 70 on the
| motorway and the car decides it's now a 30); crash detection that
| freaks out whenever you get too close to the guy in front of you
| who's turning; lane assist that turns itself back on every time
| you start the car; parking assist that loudly complains whenever
| it's not working (every other time or so); auto-speed windshield
| wipers that attempt to enter warp when the weather starts lightly
| misting.
|
| If this is what all modern cars are like I absolutely refuse to
| buy one ever.
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