[HN Gopher] Cloudflare incident on October 30, 2023
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       Cloudflare incident on October 30, 2023
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2023-11-01 16:43 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.cloudflare.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.cloudflare.com)
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | The Ask thread about it while it was occurring:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38074906
        
       | geocrasher wrote:
       | Heh. They needed Workers KV running to get Workers KV running.
        
         | ryanjshaw wrote:
         | They say they needed to use a manual/break glass process to get
         | things going again. Kinda scary to think Cloudflare could brick
         | itself.
        
           | swatcoder wrote:
           | > Kinda scary to think Cloudflare could brick itself.
           | 
           | Never forget that essentially all interesting systems _may_
           | brick themselves and _will_ at least catastrophically fail
           | every now and then. For all the sales pitches about  "the
           | cloud" providing resiliency, it's fundamentally centralizes
           | an ungodly share of the internet onto a handful of failure
           | points.
           | 
           | What had been a frothy background noise of independent
           | hosting and data center failures has become a global blackout
           | risk, where worldwide operations break down and failures
           | cascade through interdependent systems.
           | 
           | On a business level, it's hard to care about that, as you're
           | not going to be held to blame if everything else goes into
           | crisis at the same time as you, but on a societal level, it's
           | kinda f---'d.
           | 
           | It's like moving all the agriculture onto the flood plain.
           | You get maximum abundance most of the time, but when it fails
           | in those inevitable floods, you at least better have kept
           | some stockpiles stored uphill somewhere.
        
           | starttoaster wrote:
           | They don't say what the manual/break glass process was
           | exactly. But I likened it to something like a `helm rollback`
           | for a kubernetes helm release. Manual/break-glass doesn't
           | have to mean a team of engineers are logged into VM instances
           | `vi` editing config files back to a previous state and
           | `scp`-ing older binaries over, it just probably means there
           | wasn't an automated build/deploy tool process to perform it.
           | 
           | > Kinda scary to think Cloudflare could brick itself.
           | 
           | I mean.. They are providers of software that iterate on their
           | product suite in a SaaS environment. I think this sentiment
           | holds for pretty much any SaaS company. And I guess if
           | everything is scary then nothing is really all that scary. Do
           | you disagree?
        
             | ryanjshaw wrote:
             | I meant "brick" as distinct from "break", in the sense that
             | their apparent circular dependencies could result in an
             | unrecoverable failure scenario. Purely speculation of
             | course, it's probably not a real risk.
             | 
             | That being said, it's a scary thought because they are
             | different from other SaaS in that the run a significant
             | portion of the internet.
        
           | wbl wrote:
           | You know how cell sites have gas generators and the gas line
           | uses cell to communicate status? I've always wondered about
           | that one.
           | 
           | Plus would a diesel seller be able to take cash if a data
           | center needed it to start up again. There's plenty more where
           | that thoughts from
        
             | thedaly wrote:
             | I don't know about cell towers, but all AT&T central
             | offices have generators with massive fuel tanks that can
             | run even if the gas supply is cut off. I would be surprised
             | if the backup for cell towers didn't have similar systems.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | I worry a lot about those things. I am sending this to my
         | colleagues.
         | 
         | It's too easy to set up new sysop tools on the shiny new
         | cluster/filesystem/cloud that makes everything easy. However
         | how do you fix that shiny but complex thing if your tools are
         | down?
        
       | nickenumbers wrote:
       | Incident report was solid.
        
       | LoganDark wrote:
       | This is an incredibly detailed and honest incident report. Good
       | on CloudFlare for getting things running again so quickly, and
       | identifying so many problem areas to improve.
        
       | cowthulhu wrote:
       | I'd be interested to know more about the "break glass" mechanism.
       | Anyone know of any blog posts from CF on this topic?
        
         | xeromal wrote:
         | I assume when they said that they mean a hacky, manual, editing
         | config files means of redirecting traffic.
        
         | vrosas wrote:
         | > make build && ENV=prod make deploy
        
         | waythenewsgoes wrote:
         | Likely involves their most senior devs bypassing normal
         | deployment procedures / access controls. In this case, to be
         | able to edit their live production environment instance instead
         | relying on Workers KV / other impacted internal services (which
         | a lot of their infrastructure relies on) Which would then
         | enable a proper rollback. The aim being to restore service as
         | quickly as possible to minimize the customer impact.
        
       | CodeWriter23 wrote:
       | > Workers KV is our globally distributed key-value store.
       | 
       | IOW our single point of failure failed
        
       | JohnMakin wrote:
       | A continuing theme in these broad outages that keep happening is
       | that these company's are dogfooding their own services to provide
       | the same service to their customers.
       | 
       | I'm thinking of the AWS lambda outage taking out the control
       | plane as a recent example.
       | 
       | I'm not sure or saying they're _wrong_ for doing this, I just
       | keep noticing this same pattern of  "One of our products broke,
       | now all of our tooling is failing." This seems.. wrong somehow?
        
       | depr wrote:
       | I'm not as concerned about a large part of internet traffic going
       | through Cloudflare as many here are, but I think when a service
       | like CF becomes more and more popular, it has to grow, and there
       | is the irresistible impulse to do more complex things. Inevitably
       | this complexity leads to outages/issues.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-01 23:02 UTC)