[HN Gopher] Improving deep sleep may prevent dementia, study finds
___________________________________________________________________
Improving deep sleep may prevent dementia, study finds
Author : clouddrover
Score : 383 points
Date : 2023-11-01 12:07 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.monash.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.monash.edu)
| thesuavefactor wrote:
| The million dollar question is though "How do we improve deep
| sleep?" I have a sleep tracker at home and my weak point is
| always not getting enough deep sleep. I'm not sure there's a way
| to force deep sleep somehow...
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| Lots of low hanging fruit in this arena for people who haven't
| made a serious effort yet. Cutting out caffeine and alcohol
| entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I
| made, then regular exercise, and finally a midday nap during my
| lunch break.
| twh270 wrote:
| That's a good list (though I personally find it impossible to
| nap during the day). I'd add one thing: reduce stress.
| wombat-man wrote:
| Yeah, I sleep way better if I go to bed totally sober.
| Generally caffeine seems to be ok if I stop after 3pm or so.
| nick222226 wrote:
| Yep, as I get into my 30s I notice alcohol consumption
| drastically affects my sleep quality and time to fall
| asleep.
|
| I've also cut out coffee and that has helped my
| sinuses/upper throat a lot in the morning which were being
| irritated. I drink some varieties of tea instead.
| manmal wrote:
| I'm intrigued by the midday nap, because I think I remember
| reading that daytime naps worsen night sleep. I do like naps
| though, and find them refreshing. Have you found research
| that supports this?
| beezlebroxxxxxx wrote:
| The primary benefit from mid-day naps is that they simply
| help you relax and get some rest. You don't want them to be
| long, just refreshing. This is well known in athletics
| where most major athletes take naps as a matter of recovery
| and to improve their sleep quality. Presumably, feeling
| relaxed and rested when you go to sleep helps you get some
| deeper sleep and improve sleep quality.
| 2devnull wrote:
| Naps are terrible sleep hygiene. Any deviation from a
| regular set sleep schedule is bad hygiene. Better to get
| less sleep than to nap and disturb the sleep schedule. Many
| people develop insomnia this way, especially shift workers.
| kaba0 wrote:
| It's almost like we are not some robots with scheduled
| downtimes - physiology is much more complicated than to
| have such a mathematical truths. The only true thing we
| can conclude is always: this factor might correspond to
| this effect (and sometimes may even say that it is not
| only correlation)
| dev_hugepages wrote:
| The siesta is natural and is different from the naps
| taken from shift workers that are likely either
| interrupting night time sleep or are shifting their
| circadian rythm so that their "biological night" is in
| the day. Same thing for the "biological day" (it will be
| put at night)
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1
| musha68k wrote:
| AFAIR was only the case if nap was longer than ~20 min? I
| don't remember if this was a consistent thing, I doubt it
| though as this stuff is inherently individual.
| Experimentation is the only way with sleep optimization..
| jlpom wrote:
| It does not worsen night sleep, this is a misconception. It
| is better than nothing but often not as good as regular
| sleep since you often does not goes through a full cycle.
| dev_hugepages wrote:
| I recommend to read
| https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Best_time_for_napping The key
| takeaways is that naps won't affect night time sleep much
| if it's timed well. I also don't recommend stopping them
| artificially (I've heard the "keep them short" advice a
| lot), naps are usually short if you aren't sleep deprived
| and time it well.
| leetrout wrote:
| Similar for me.
|
| I'll add that I take a small magnesium supplement mid to late
| afternoon as well which helps me relax and if dreams are any
| indication of deeper sleep I have many more memorable dreams
| when I'm taking magnesium.
| JoshTko wrote:
| What form of magnesium?
| DrThunder wrote:
| I use a powdered drink called 'Calm'. It's got a bit of a
| berry flavor to it. Start with a small amount though or
| you'll be shitting your pants. There are a lot of studies
| showing magnesium levels are far too low in people anyway
| so it's a good idea to supplement it.
| willseth wrote:
| Magnesium glycinate is typically recommended, but any
| form that doesn't upset your stomach is probably good.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Magnesium L-Threonate (a.k.a. magtein) supposedly crosses
| the blood-brain barrier better than any other form of
| magnesium.
| leetrout wrote:
| I currently use magnesium oxide in a tablet form (I use
| half a tablet, ~125mg). I have previously used magnesium
| glycinate but I don't remember what dose I used of that.
|
| I'll add, the mag oxide always prevents leg cramps when I
| take a full tablet (250mg) when I am working outside all
| day (and staying hydrated).
|
| ETA: In my experience magnesium citrate is the one mostly
| likely to cause diarrhea though they all can.
| willseth wrote:
| Dreams are an indication of REM sleep, but improvement in
| REM may be a general indication that you're getting overall
| better sleep, including deep sleep.
| magbay_stan wrote:
| I 100% shill for magnesium when I can, and sleep is a huge
| reason in my experience. I was recommended it by others for
| sleep, and I have got a lot of people started. Within a few
| days our sleep is just so much better, including deeper
| dreams. I do 100mg lysinate glycinate. My brand's bottle
| recommends two per serving, but one has worked great. I
| take it right before bed and have never looked back.
| Nemi wrote:
| I also take Magnesium and swear by it. I also suspect I
| have some underlying kidney issues retaining many
| electrolytes and started taking a potassium with the
| magnesium at bedtime and it has transformed my sleep into
| baby-land. I sleep so hard now and when I wake up, I have
| no problem getting right back to sleep. I feel so refreshed
| the next day it is honestly shocking to me. I have always
| said that before I started taking both that I felt like I
| was on a one-way track to dementia. That is just how I
| felt. Very anecdotal, but I believe it in my bones.
| rednerrus wrote:
| How much of each are you taking? Are you taking any blood
| pressure medications?
| astrange wrote:
| Magnesium makes it worse for me because you have to pee out
| a bunch of minerals.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Its not so straightforward. Caffeine consumption has been
| shown to reduce the chance of dementia.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/
| shlant wrote:
| 1. Can't be sure that the effect of caffeine is more worth
| it than the possible impact on sleep. Better sleep probably
| has a wider range of benefits compared to caffeine.
|
| 2. Might not have to be one or the other - just make sure
| caffeine consumption is very early in the day
| Almondsetat wrote:
| All these studies seem like cope.
|
| You drink coffee because it makes you do more things at
| work / you are a slob without it because of addiction. You
| are not drinking it because it might make you better in bed
| or have less dementia in 50 years.
|
| On the other hand we all need to sleep so doing it properly
| is a net positive
| brigadier132 wrote:
| Caffeine is really not unhealthy. It's one of the most
| studied supplements ever. If you drink one cup of coffee
| before noon you will be perfectly fine.
| Almondsetat wrote:
| >if you drink one cup
|
| If you only shoot heroin once a week you will be
| perfectly fine
|
| How many people resist the urge and only shoot heroin
| once a week?
|
| We are humans, not perfectly diligent robots.
|
| The first thing you say to a person with eating disorders
| is to throw all the junk food from their home. It's close
| to impossible to resist even the "simple" temptation of
| food.
|
| It's much easier for a person to never start drinking
| coffee in the morning to "wake up" than starting and then
| quitting
| brigadier132 wrote:
| Caffeine is not heroin. Caffeine has proven benefits.
|
| Given your entire comment is one massive strawman
| argument I will ignore the rest of it.
| Almondsetat wrote:
| > Caffeine is not heroin. Caffeine has proven benefits.
|
| Heroin has proven benefits, this is why they give it to
| you at the hospital.
|
| Given your entire comment is a massive lie I will ignore
| the rest of your replies
| brigadier132 wrote:
| Ah yes, heroin and caffeine are equivalent, that's why we
| see all those caffeine addicts lining the streets of San
| Francisco looking for their next fix.
|
| If you want to have an honest discussion, stop using
| these terrible analogies and bring actual scientific
| evidence.
|
| This mentality of finding these shallow similarities and
| drawing these insane conclusions indicates that someone
| has very low intelligence.
|
| This is your "deep" thought process
|
| 1. Caffeine is a drug
|
| 2. Heroin is also a drug
|
| 3. Caffeine can have negative effects on people when used
| in excess
|
| 4. Heroin can also have negative effects on people when
| used in excess!
|
| ergo, caffeine is as bad as heroin
| Almondsetat wrote:
| > ergo, caffeine is as bad as heroin
|
| Never said this.
|
| Perhaps if you didn't "ignore" the rest of my comment you
| would have understood the point :)
| r2_pilot wrote:
| There's a Starbucks in town whose unfortunate positioning
| has led to a great increase in wrecks (it's just past a
| hill, on a fairly busy road with speed limit of 40mph,
| and it doesn't have enough space for a large drive thru
| so cars are backed into the road).
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| Actually, I have to side with the original commenter on
| this. A great deal of today's public health issues in the
| first world stem directly or indirectly from people being
| unable to properly moderate use of a good thing. That's
| why I switched to decaf - I'd have to drink 10 times the
| amount of coffee I normally do to get an equivalent dose.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Decaf has its own issues. Read up on the residues left in
| coffee after it's been through the decaf process.
| caskstrength wrote:
| I just turn off coffee machine at noon and that is it.
| How hard can it be for you?
| Almondsetat wrote:
| >How hard can it be for you?
|
| maybe ask the 100 years of scientific publications about
| human behavior and addiction?
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| There are different intensities of addiction. Heroin
| addiction is not comparable to caffeine. And we each
| respond differently to addictive substances.
| caskstrength wrote:
| You are constructing very weird strawman here. Me and a
| lot of my friends have beer in the fridge or some
| stronger spirit on the shelf and yet they don't get drunk
| first thing in the morning before work. Similarly I don't
| observe them gulping liters of coffee at 10 pm. There are
| always people who have harder time moderating their
| addictions, but absolute majority seem to be able to
| control their caffeine consumption just fine.
| Almondsetat wrote:
| > absolute majority seem to be able to control their
| caffeine consumption just fine.
|
| According to whom? Data says otherwise
|
| https://www.statista.com/chart/19524/cups-of-coffee-
| drunk-by...
| caskstrength wrote:
| "One cup" of coffee doesn't mean anything by itself since
| the effects depend on both genetics and tolerance. Do you
| have data that confirms that majority of adults either
| consume so much coffee that it causes unwanted side
| effects (sleep problems) or that they want to reduce
| their consumption and struggling to do so due to the
| dependency?
|
| I usually consume two double espressos per day (both
| before noon) and don't have trouble falling asleep
| afterwards.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| It's like website blockers for productivity: eventually
| you realize you can just undo the work you did and go
| back to business as usual, especially if there's an
| excuse ("I need this youtube video on software
| architecture for my research, so I'll just unblock
| youtube and...")
| musha68k wrote:
| It's not necessarily 0 or 1 is it? E.g. a "short espresso"
| in the early morning hours at least from my sleep tracking
| / particular (heavy) physiology doesn't make a difference
| vs when I'm off of caffeine (on weekends usually). I'd
| start with dropping afternoon coffee and experiment
| backwards from there.
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| Your link literally says: " Epidemiologic studies have
| provided inconclusive evidence for a protective effect of
| caffeine consumption on risk of dementia and cognitive
| decline."
|
| That doesn't sound very convincing.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Context is key. You've just cited the concept under
| challenge. The summary and conclusion literally says it
| "may reduce the risk of dementia and cognitive decline,
| and may ameliorate cognitive decline in cognitively
| impaired individuals."
| krrrh wrote:
| Without reading this paper but having read a bunch of this
| research in the past, it's definitely inconclusive due to
| poor quality data. The people who don't consume caffeine
| category too often includes those with major health issues
| that prevent them from doing so.
| Ironlikebike wrote:
| I have always had insomnia and have to maintain very good
| sleep hygiene. Here's a few things I have found that help me
| get to sleep:
|
| - No exercise after 18:30/6:30pm
|
| - Absolutely avoid Vitamin D and Vitamin B supplements in the
| evening. These will suppress deep and REM sleep and I'll
| sleep lightly all night long if I take them.
|
| - Hot sauna, shower, or bath before bed.
|
| - Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as
| needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I feel
| like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake me up.
|
| Things that keep me from waking up at night:
|
| - Gas X as needed to avoid acid reflux
|
| - Anti Inflammatory helps keep me from having to use the
| bathroom when I know I'm inflamed (getting old sucks).
|
| - No alcohol in the evening
|
| - No videogames, interesting books, or French lessons right
| before bed, or I'll be sleeping lightly and find myself
| ruminating in light sleep over these mentally engaging
| topics.
| iamdbtoo wrote:
| Would you mind sharing what you take for the anti-
| inflammatory? Do you take it daily?
| appplication wrote:
| No alcohol or weed in the evening is critical for me.
| Either after about 5pm completely ruins my sleep.
| MrDrMcCoy wrote:
| I on the other hand can't get to sleep without weed, and
| that's my sole purpose for consuming it.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Sounds like a stress/relaxation issue.
| sys32768 wrote:
| Have you also tried no calories after 5 PM? That has
| given me the deepest sleep with vivid dreams.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Something that helps me is to do something physically
| exhausting during the day. Probably not right before
| bedtime though. For me it's weightlifting, that's the
| only exercise I've been able to stick with. If that's not
| your thing, try to find something else that elevates your
| heart rate/makes you sweat for 30 minutes or so, that
| might help you sleep better. Even some deep
| stretching/yoga can get your muscles firing and get your
| heart rate up.
|
| You might also try no screens/TV/computers after dark.
| Keep interior lights at low levels and a warm color
| temperature after dark. Be intentional about doing
| calming, quiet things before bedtime.
| orthecreedence wrote:
| When do you usually go to bed?
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Conventional wisdom says do not eat within 3 hours of
| sleep. If you go to bed at 10:00, nothing after 7:00.
| ScottEvtuch wrote:
| I thought vivid dreaming was an indicator of sleep
| interruption, not quality sleep. IIRC dreaming happens
| during our deepest sleep when you would not normally be
| easily woken up. Remembering your dreams mean you woke
| during that time.
| sys32768 wrote:
| I thought that too, but what seems to happen is that I
| wake up remembering a very _long_ dream rather than just
| a jumble of dream snippets from the night.
| DiffEq wrote:
| Just make sure your anti-histamine is not in this list of
| drugs to avoid.
|
| https://youtu.be/16n80OQCVSM?si=_Ve2HH4U2N-ATTnj
| resoluteteeth wrote:
| I think that's why they specified zyrtec which is a
| second generation (not anticholinergic) antihistamine
| robocat wrote:
| Most off-the-shelf antihistamines are now non-drowsy.
|
| I asked the pharmacist for a drowsy antihistamine the
| other day and they gave me something from behind the
| counter (no script required). No idea if it was
| anticholinergic: most drugs require compromises so if
| something works better for sleep for me I'll judge the
| risks for other side-effects.
|
| Normally I use a loratidine if I wake in the early hours
| and that usually gets me back to sleep, even though it is
| non-drowsy.
|
| I wanted to try a different antihistamine to see if it
| worked better: jury's out on that at the moment.
|
| Personally I think it is _very_ important to experiment
| on yourself, and test a variety of solutions. I will even
| test alternative medicine for important problems. I
| strongly avoid dangerous solutions. I am fairly
| conservative and I especially dislike taking pills, but I
| believe in the value of trying a bit of science on your
| problems.
| halfmatthalfcat wrote:
| Funny how you say avoid Vit D, yet another poster swears
| taking Vit D before bed solved their issue.
| jsharf wrote:
| Suggests there's other variables involved, like time of
| day taken, other supplements taken simultaneously,
| metabolic processes, diet, and maybe even the placebo
| effect.
| JamesBarney wrote:
| If you pubmed vitamin d and sleep you find that in
| general vitamin d makes sleep quality worse. (I'm sure
| there are exceptions)
| meindnoch wrote:
| >having to use the bathroom when I know I'm inflamed
|
| What does this sentence mean?
| mrbigbob wrote:
| If i had to take a guess i think this person might be
| referring to an enlarged/inflamed prostate.
| meindnoch wrote:
| Oh! Ok, I get it now.
|
| I thought he was feeling any kind of inflammation in his
| body.
| baby wrote:
| What really kills me is acid reflux. If I get it at night I
| just have to wake up and sit down or stand up until it
| passes... fortunately it happens rarely enough and I kind
| of know what will trigger it, but it still sucks.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Are you eating within 3 hours of sleep?
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| Alka-Seltzer always knocks reflux down for me pretty
| quick. Still get woken up by the reflux and have to haul
| myself out of bed to get the goods, but a few sips and I
| can get right back in bed.
| MetallicDragon wrote:
| Try OTC reflux medicine like Prilosec (Omeprazole). Works
| way better than Tums for reflux in my experience.
| roldie wrote:
| Curious how gas x helps with acid reflux. My understanding
| is that it's for bloating more than reflux. Do you find it
| works better than antacids?
| InSteady wrote:
| It helps reduce bloating. If you have bloating + weak
| esophageal sphincter (or just really bad bloating) you
| can get reflux as a result.
|
| Actually, more accurately, gas-x has an enzyme that helps
| break down oligosaccharides. The mechanism may be more
| complex than above if your acid reflux is somehow related
| to microbiome stuff (oligos are favorite food for all
| kinds of gut bacteria).
| roldie wrote:
| Thanks, never knew that!
| illegalsmile wrote:
| What anti-inflammatory do you recommend? Ibuprofen works
| great for me but it's not something I want to use
| regularly. Turmeric/curcumin?
| astrange wrote:
| > - Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as
| needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I
| feel like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake
| me up.
|
| Antihistamines are associated with increased dementia if
| you take the wrong ones, so it's not a good way to get more
| sleep. Melatonin, trazodone or a newer sleep drug is safer.
| bryceacc wrote:
| that seems to be associated with benadryl:
|
| https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-
| anticholinergic-d...
|
| which is sometimes used for it's drowsy effect.
| cetirizine/loratidine are non-drowsy and I don't see any
| association known with dementia
| eindiran wrote:
| Yeah, Benadryl is a weird drug. Look at its interactions
| with various receptor sites in humans: https://en.wikiped
| ia.org/wiki/Diphenhydramine#Pharmacology
| bogota wrote:
| Im jealous of anyone who can sleep well. I have been doing
| all of the above for years as well as testing out different
| temperatures and also not looking at screens for well over an
| hour before going to bed.
|
| I just can't get good consistent deep sleep. I will say one
| thing that did help was i use to live in the city and after i
| moved outside of it and it was much much quieter at night (no
| trucks driving through or random sounds or honking in the
| middle of the night) i did notice an improvement.
| Jedd wrote:
| Urban sounds are a big problem for me as well, but you may
| want to try a white noise generator (phone app or even a
| small low-power fan) to hide some of those noises.
|
| The fan for me doubles as a way of getting air circulation.
| I keep windows open in other rooms, but not the bedroom -
| due to street noises. Having a CO2 monitor may give you
| some insights into another key factor impacting your sleep
| quality.
| mirekrusin wrote:
| Start taking GlyNAC and see how you feel after a week or
| two. It's crazy nobody is recommending it but me here.
| spelunker wrote:
| The biggest improvement for me by far was a CPAP.
| alostpuppy wrote:
| Same! If you have poor sleep, it couldn't hurt to see a
| sleep doc.
| blinding-streak wrote:
| CPAP nade a profound difference for me. Cognitively and
| physically.
| musha68k wrote:
| Could you elaborate? Are you talking about this? https://en
| .wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pre...
| musha68k wrote:
| I agree, it's hard but worth it. I have the data to back it
| up through sleep tracking. I've always felt somewhat unfazed
| by coffee, yet caffeine flashbacks can be very subtle and do
| seem to have a measurable impact on this "user" at least.
|
| Also really darkening the bedroom and keeping the temperature
| as low as possible.
|
| Now if there only were a consistent solution for energetic
| "night owl" toddlers to go with that ever more optimized
| regimen :D
| alistairSH wrote:
| Just seconding many of the suggestions so far...
|
| - no alcohol after dinner (none at all is better) - eat
| dinner as early as possible (before 7pm, even earlier is
| better) - turn off screens after 9pm (Kindle doesn't seem to
| impact, but phone/tablet/TV do) - exercise regularly, but not
| too close to bedtime - regular bed time and wake time (we go
| to bedroom 9:30-10, lights out 10:30, alarm at 6am).
|
| Meditation and breathing exercise can help too, but I haven't
| had to try those much.
| VirusNewbie wrote:
| >Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were
| by far the biggest improvements I made
|
| Are you sure the latter improved _deep sleep_? Alcohol is
| known to interfere with REM sleep, but I 've actually found
| it lengthens the amount of time I spend in deep sleep if I
| have a single beer or something at dinner. I tracked this
| over months with a sleep tracker.
| rpmisms wrote:
| I sleep too deeply. 1oz of liquor immediately before sleep
| makes me able to comprehend alarms in the morning.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| Sleep, like digestion, wound healing, or respiration, seems to
| be one of those complex bodily processes that can suffer from
| dysfunction for a variety of reasons we're only now beginning
| to understand rigorously. A quality polysomnography is a good
| place to start.
| agos wrote:
| and to top it off, issues with digestion or respiration will
| impact your sleep negatively
| bnralt wrote:
| One thing I've found that really helps is actually not worrying
| too much about sleep. Try to follow good basic habits, but you
| can become neurotic trying to follow every suggestion that
| people make or thinking that a few nights of horrible sleep is
| going to damage you for life. If I get a few nights of poor
| sleep nowadays I try to just shrug it off.
| leokennis wrote:
| I have a feeling that the more "advanced" tips seen in this
| thread are more (personal) solutions/improvements for the
| situation of "I am stressed and so I cannot sleep well". I.e.
| to make a non-optimal situation a little better.
|
| Which is fine, but in general I'd think having the luxury of
| being in a calm, comfortable and unworried state of mind is
| the most beneficial.
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| I remember reading in _Why we Sleep_ [1] about devices that you
| could wear which would increase the intensity of deep sleep
| brain waves, thereby causing deeper sleep. Not sure how legit
| this is seen these days or how close such devices are to
| becoming available to regular consumers, but was interesting to
| read about.
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep
| heipei wrote:
| Personal anecdote, but I sleep with earplugs most of the nights
| as I have a very light sleep. I would wake from really small
| noises multiple times every night. In contrast, sleeping with
| earplugs feels like entering a dark and quiet chamber and then
| suddenly emerging after 7-8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. YMMV,
| but for me it's a godsend.
| globular-toast wrote:
| I have the same problem but I've yet to find earplugs that I
| can wear every night. The only only ones I've been able to
| sleep with at all are silicone ones that mould to the shape
| of the ear. I can only sleep which makes things significantly
| more difficult but with some practice I can get the silicone
| ones flat and not feeling like there's pressure inside my ear
| which will stop me sleeping.
|
| I don't travel without these now and they have been great,
| but after several successive nights of use I find my ear
| starts to get sore and sensitive to them.
|
| The best thing, of course, is to live somewhere actually
| quiet. Most noise is from cars. But failing that I have to
| sleep with some white noise source like a fan.
| prirun wrote:
| I use these earplugs every night and whenever I'm exposed
| to noise, like vacuuming. For me, it helps me sleep better
| and also seems to reduce tinnitus. Note: I'm not saying
| wearing earplugs directly reduces tinnitus, but IMO it
| reduces ear stimulation because my ears are processing less
| sound, so my ears don't get as tired, and that seems to
| make my tinnitus less noticeable.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051U7W32
|
| I re-use the same set, washing them when I take a shower. I
| bought the above set of 50 years ago and still have many
| left.
|
| A couple of tricks I use with these:
|
| - I cut about 1/4" off the small end. If I don't, the
| earplug starts to hurt my ear if I wear it a lot, I think
| because it goes too far into my ear.
|
| - before using a new earplug, I wash it several times with
| bar soap. There is something in a new ear plug that makes
| it stay mashed. Maybe it suppresses more noise with that,
| but it also makes it hard to fit for me. I keep washing it
| until it is springy. This is a one-time thing with a new
| ear plug.
| globular-toast wrote:
| The "stay mashed" property is by design for these types
| of earplugs because they are meant to go right into the
| ear canal. The idea is you mash them (well, carefully
| roll and compress) then insert them while still mashed,
| holding them in as they slowly re-expand.
|
| But this is, of course, to ensure protection in the case
| of dangerously high sound pressure levels. Cutting them
| would also compromise them in this regard. Perhaps
| different if you are using them to block out low noises
| for sleep.
| knicholes wrote:
| Whenever I use these, I have to wake up in the middle of
| the night because my ear canals are all wet inside. Does
| this not happen to you?
| globular-toast wrote:
| Yes, but I think to a lesser extent. I have not felt
| uncomfortable in the night due to this, but my ears
| definitely feel more moist in the morning which probably
| contributes to the soreness/sensitivity over time for me.
| walthamstow wrote:
| Similar for me, I use a blindfold and white noise to create a
| sleep cocoon with no distractions
| rashkov wrote:
| Same, highly recommend the manta sleep mask for any back
| sleepers
| canadiantim wrote:
| I just repeat mantras until all the sheep are counted,
| works like a charm
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| Hard for me to get good sleep with earplugs:
|
| 1. They're noticeably "there" in my ears, or even mildly
| uncomfortable
|
| 2. I'm nervous about missing important sounds (family
| telephone emergencies, emergency door knocks, etc)
| heipei wrote:
| Regarding some of the comments: Yes, I had trouble sleeping
| with earplugs initially myself. It's definitely something you
| have to get used to, but once you do you don't notice them at
| all. Then it feels like having acquired a new super-power. I
| use Bilsom 303 type of disposable plugs, the type you'd find
| on a worksite, although I only change them after a few weeks
| of use.
| krrrh wrote:
| The Bose sleepbuds were helpful for me in masking snoring
| sounds. I found conventional earbuds too uncomfortable the
| way they seal, while these make up for the lack of perfect
| seal with white noise. Looks like the product has been
| recently spun out to a new company.
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/22/23837206/ozlo-
| sleepbuds-b...
| jacobsimon wrote:
| I think the other key question is causality - do people who get
| less deep sleep develop these diseases, or do people who are
| developing these diseases get less deep sleep, or both?
|
| I wonder if they could design an interventional study in which
| people who are predisposed to dementia are given more sleep or
| melatonin, and then demonstrate whether it protects against the
| disease.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| I mean one of the common correlations between dementia and
| 'something else' is stress, people who are stressed get
| dementia more often. I guess people who are not getting
| enough deep sleep are also stressed.
| kzz102 wrote:
| The study does not prove causality: it is right in the title
| of the paper: _Association_ Between Slow-Wave Sleep Loss and
| Incident Dementia.
|
| Sorry for the rant: we should not share university press
| release articles, they are always clickbait. Just share the
| research directly.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| dang I smiled when I read this comment
| bradley13 wrote:
| You're right about the journal paper, but the pop-sci title
| implies causation. So, for those who didn't click all the
| way through: There is zero proof of causation. It may well
| be that people getting dementia have increased problems
| sleeping. Or both may be caused by some third factor.
| Moldoteck wrote:
| no alcohol, no coffee after 12:00, try to eat less(caloric
| food) at dinner & try to eat no closer than 3h before your
| sleep, make sure the room you sleep in is fully dark, make sure
| you have comfortable temperature (if you are rich, you may as
| well get that ultrafancy mattress that regulates the
| temperature), make sure pillow is comfy, not too hard¬ too
| soft
| buzzdenver wrote:
| I do not have an answer for you, but I have a very low level of
| trust in the deep sleep numbers, as they are based on heart
| rate and not brain waves.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| FWIW, my Apple Watch's reports of deep sleep line up with my
| Zeo (EEG)'s numbers from awhile ago.
| petesergeant wrote:
| My deep sleep has massively improved recently and consistently
| for the last month. Two things I've done differently (and I'm
| not sure which is to thank) is taking magnesium before bed each
| night and inhaling fluticasone. No more snoring, no more waking
| up tired.
| thelastgallon wrote:
| Whats the sleep tracker you use? I've been looking at a few,
| not sure which ones are really accurate.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Try brown noise
| IndySun wrote:
| It's Brownian noise, to be precise.
| cschmidt wrote:
| This probably doesn't help you directly, but I suspect the
| older people mentioned in the article may often have some sleep
| apnea, preventing them from reaching deep sleep. I just started
| using a CPAP machine, which has greatly improved it for me.
| Making sure it is always treated could help society wide.
| samuell wrote:
| I've always had trouble falling asleep properly.
|
| I got helped by the usual suspects like avoiding caffeine after
| 14-15, earplugs, thick curtains and light cover over the eyes
| as well as cool temperatures in the sleeping room, but the big
| improvement came after I stopped eating after 20 in the night,
| and preferably earlier than that.
| perbu wrote:
| According to this researched I heard an interview with about
| 15-20% of the population has some level of intolerance for
| histamines. Having high histamine levels affect sleep.
|
| I find it interesting that it is never addressed in these
| common list of what to try to improve sleep. It's not rocket
| science managing it, just a matter of avoiding high histamine
| food after 5pm or so. Good sleep might be worth it.
| atmosx wrote:
| How does the sensor track "deep sleep" reliably?
| GuB-42 wrote:
| If your sleep tracker is one of these consumer devices that you
| put on your wrist, they are notoriously unreliable (here is a
| study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7603649/ ).
| Worse, they have been shown to cause unnecessary stress by
| causing people who are actually perfectly fine to chase
| numbers.
|
| As for how to improve sleep, there are plenty of advise, many
| of them commonsense (see in this thread). But I think that
| unless you are actually followed by a healthcare professional,
| in which case he would probably give better advise than random
| people on HN, how well you feel the next day is probably a
| better metric than some number on a smartwatch. And if the
| answer is "fine", I don't think there is a reason to worry
| much.
| evanjrowley wrote:
| Somewhat ironically, the sleep apnea screening device I was
| sent is also meant to be worn on the wrist. There were three
| additional sensors connected to it. One for monitor chest
| movements for breathing, one for monitoring breath itself,
| and another for blood oxygen level.
| daralthus wrote:
| q10 coenzyme before bed turns me into a log for the whole night
| 2devnull wrote:
| That's what I don't get and would love someone to post full
| text of the study. They claim this is a "modifiable" risk. I
| find that claim dubious and would love to see how they support
| that, and why this isn't simply descriptive/correlational.
| konfusinomicon wrote:
| try nasal dilators. they can be a little uncomfortable to start
| and some brands like to fall out mid sleep (or I subconsciously
| take it out and drop it in the bed), but I can attest that I
| sleep much deeper when I use one, or atleast the increase in
| quality and quantity of dreams make me think I do. also I wake
| up in the morning in the same position I fell asleep in and not
| feeling tired more often, where I usually am sleep flopping all
| over the place according to my other half
| QuercusMax wrote:
| I've had good luck with nasal strips (like Breathe Right)
| along with an anti-snoring mouth appliance. I got one from my
| dentist that worked OK but it cost $1K and broke after a
| year. I've had good luck with the non-prescription SnoreRx
| mouth appliance; not so great with ZQuiet which I found hurt
| my front teeth.
| proee wrote:
| Exercise HARD. Try doing some Zone 2 cardio for +1 hours, and
| see if this makes a difference. Or try some HIIT workout (Zone
| 5) and see how your body responds. A good overall workout
| machine is a rower. Try to set some kind of PR, like a 2k time
| trial. Push beyond what you think is possible and see how your
| body responds. My best sleeps are when I am physically
| exhausted - so weak that I could fall asleep on a couch (which
| is normally impossible for me).
| gjstein wrote:
| I have some mixed feelings about this. I used to do this ~10
| years ago when I was a distance runner, but now exercising so
| hard will throw my body off in other ways and I don't feel
| good having pushed so hard. Perhaps this is exactly the point
| you're making, but I don't target zone 5 for long these days.
| Deep sleep, sure, but at what cost to the rest of my body?
| brigadier132 wrote:
| All exercise causes fatigue and fatigue management is not
| really discussed but it's actually not that difficult. Most
| of your cardio should be done in zone 2 (look up the 80/20
| rule). You also may need to start with easier workouts and
| work your way back up to what you expect you can do. I was
| also a former endurance athlete and in college I stopped
| exercising. Numerous times I kept on trying to get back
| into it and I didn't succeed at getting back into it until
| I realized that I needed to start from square 1.
|
| I'm not fully back into it yet mind you, but I'm running 20
| miles a week and lifting weights 6 days a week. A lot of my
| workouts are zone 2. I sleep at least 8 hours and I get
| roughly 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight from my
| diet (i also make sure all my other macro and micro
| nutrient needs are met).
|
| The excessive fatigue goes away if you are meeting your
| nutrient and sleep requirements and not consuming drugs or
| alcohol. Look up the "repeated bout effect". I feel like a
| teenager again after getting my exercise, nutrition, and
| sleep routine locked in.
|
| edit: To clarify what I mean about "the excessive fatigue
| goes away", when I first started running there would be
| mornings where I would wake up and have significant mental
| and physical fatigue and the very thought of going to
| exercise was repulsive to me. That goes away with time,
| it's also a signal to maybe take it easy for the day and do
| zone 2 cardio instead.
| proee wrote:
| For sure, there is some kind of optimal balance to target.
| I've pushed myself so hard at times that I disrupted my
| sleep. For example, I bought a used Kickr and decided to do
| a FTP test at 9pm. This was not the smartest idea.
|
| Running has been the goto for me. Can push myself on a 5k
| run in the evening (6pm) and when 10pm hits, I'm 2x more
| tired than normal.
| krumpet wrote:
| And, depending on your situation, be careful. I was a
| collegiate athlete back in the day and recently tried to
| recapture some of that. The result? Torn labrum in my left
| hip that really can't be repaired (per doctor). I'm all for
| hard workouts, but respect your age (and prior injuries) if
| you're going to go down this path. Definitely ease your way
| into it.
| kaba0 wrote:
| To be a bit more careful in line with the other commenters'
| worries, do not ever raise your heart rate above `200-age`,
| that's a rough estimate.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| What's the consensus about exercising when sick? Are you
| supposed to get bed rest, or will the exercise help you?
| f38zf5vdt wrote:
| The study is about duration of deep sleep, not quality. And
| that's an easy one, you can increase the amount of deep sleep
| with cannabis.
|
| > Cannabis users demonstrated significantly longer sleep
| latency and less REM sleep overall; no other differences
| occurred in objective sleep measures between groups.
|
| https://bmjopenrespres.bmj.com/content/6/Suppl_1/A23.1
| joveian wrote:
| Your link does not support your statement, which may not be
| the case. Even your quoted bit suggests that cannabis just
| caused less REM sleep that was replaced by taking longer to
| get to sleep. I couldn't find a particularly good citataion
| but some say that THC doesn't affect deep sleep (N3) while
| CBD actually reduces it. All say that the situation is
| unclear and needs more research.
| sys32768 wrote:
| Try no calories after 5PM. This gives me the deepest sleep and
| very vivid dreams.
| buildsjets wrote:
| Try a Valerian root extract supplement about an hour before
| your bedtime. It's extraordinary effective for me.
|
| https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/valerian
| ac29 wrote:
| It should be noted that Valerian works on the brains GABA
| system in a very similar manner to alcohol or benzodiazapines
| (valium, xanax, etc). This is why it is effective, but also
| why it should only be used short term.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| I take Magnesium an hour or so before bed and boy does my Mi
| Band smartwatch show a difference in deep sleep those days.
|
| Is it "real" improved deep sleep? No idea.
|
| I do blood tests for Magnesium (and D3, B12, etc) every so
| often to make sure I'm not poisoning myself.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| What kills sleep for me is any feeling of unfinished business.
| If I feel like there's a thing I need to do, good luck sleeping
| unless I'm completely exhausted. So I think mental health is
| really important, learning to have your mind at peace. Or
| rather, learning, one by one, how to deal with the 1000 things
| disturb you individually until there's not many left to keep
| you up
| deegles wrote:
| There was a device called the Dreem headband that would use EEG
| and specially timed tones to increase the duration of deep
| sleep (look up "sleep spindles"). Unfortunately that specific
| feature was blocked in the US and they took it off the market.
| But I hope that something like that will be launched again.
| oooyay wrote:
| I went through a series of traumatic events before a deployment
| and I stopped sleeping. I started experiencing psychosomatic
| events where I'd see and feel bugs crawling on me. When I saw
| the Wizard(tm) he had me start doing breathing exercises right
| before bed, clearing my brain, and centering myself in a space
| with no distractions. For me that was a endless white room. It
| worked and I continue to do it today when I have stressful days
| and I generally sleep on a consistent schedule and wake up
| (nearly) on the hour of when I need to wake up. From my sleep
| tracker I get roughly 1.5-2 hours of REM each night and roughly
| 6-7 hours of "sleep".
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| Interesting. Did you learn anything else that helped you?
| ulnarkressty wrote:
| I have improved my deep sleep by taking lavender oil extract
| capsules. They help relax and give me a 'knock-out' feeling
| that rapidly induces sleep. I also don't wake up in the middle
| of the night anymore when I take them. Unfortunately the
| quality of the extract varies wildly, I would get the same
| effect with 80mg as I would with 400mg from another supplier.
| Doubly unfortunate is that one rapidly builds tolerance to it.
| I use it every 3rd day, so I get a deep, restful sleep twice a
| week.
|
| Quite a few sleep supplements have started adding it to their
| formulas recently, using melatonin to initiate sleep and
| lavender oil to sustain it. It remains to be seen what side
| effects it has taken long term - there aren't any studies about
| this available as far as I could tell.
| krrrh wrote:
| Just a note that lavender oil is estrogenic and topical use
| has been associated with precocious puberty or gynocomastia
| in children. Small doses in adults may not be a huge issue,
| but I would not use it as a sleep aid for kids.
|
| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-
| tea-t...
| pedalpete wrote:
| We're doing neurostimulation to increase the effectiveness at
| deep sleep, and have spoken with the research team at Monash
| (where the study took place) which is looking to use our tech
| in some of their future studies.
|
| There is a large body of research supporting this, a selection
| of which you can find on our website at https://soundmind.co
|
| We don't alter the amount of time you sleep, we increase the
| synchronous firing of neurons, which is the hallmark of deep
| sleep.
| interstice wrote:
| I've been stuck on <30 minutes of deep sleep for as long as
| I've had an Apple watch and probably much longer. Some
| observations I recently made:
|
| - Japan has these drinks with 200mg of GABA, I don't know if it
| was the 20,000 steps we were doing every day or the drinks but
| on the days I had it deep sleep was often (not always) closer
| to an hour. Strangely enough GABA is illegal here in NZ so I'm
| trying L-Theanine with less obvious effects.
|
| - Exercise (even 2h+ moderate) doesn't have any effect,
| adjusting caffeine doesn't seem to either
|
| - A warm shower immediately before bed strangely did seem to
| have a considerable although not perfectly consistent effect
|
| - Just got put on Concerta for ADHD and although im getting
| less sleep i'm also getting 40+ minutes of deep sleep. After
| recently doing research into GABA + Dopamine + etc it seems to
| be a bit of a brain circuit thing for me.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| + orgasm before washing up
| CP3f6kMA wrote:
| Interested what the ramifications to polphasic sleep are now
| sireat wrote:
| All the anecdotal indications is that polyphasic sleep is
| simply acquiring significant deep sleep debt.
|
| That is: polyphasic sleep is not sustainable over a multi year
| period.
|
| Humans can still do it while sailing in an ocean, on space
| ships and similar extreme locations.
|
| However a significant relapse then follows in more "normal"
| places.
|
| I'd love to see if someone was able to be productive for 3+
| years on polyphasic sleep.
|
| Personally I relapsed after a few months - maybe I never truly
| transitioned.
| user_7832 wrote:
| > I'd love to see if someone was able to be productive for 3+
| years on polyphasic sleep.
|
| Buckminister Fuller apparently was close. > Fuller reportedly
| kept this Dymaxion sleep habit for two years, before quitting
| the routine because it conflicted with his business
| associates' sleep habits. (From his wikipedia page)
| meindnoch wrote:
| Yikes. For me, this is an argument _against_ polyphasic
| sleep. That guy was a total quack.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| How do you improve it? Benzos apparently improve it but do these
| improve it the real way?
| rex_lupi wrote:
| Benzos do NOT improve sleep quality, they just make you sleep.
| They in fact reduce deep sleep. Melatonin supplementation may
| help.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| I don't have much problems falling asleep but I feel I slept
| much better if I took a benzo so I occasionally (rarely,
| humble doses) do whenever I want to really recharge myself
| with what feels like a great night of good deep uninterrupted
| sleep. In contrast to zolpidem (I tried it wehen I actually
| used to have problems falling asleep): zolpidem helps to fall
| asleep but promotes vivid (and visually beautiful) vigourous
| dreams and harms resting so I feel satisfied but very tired
| in the morning (like if lived through the Avatar movie
| instead of sleeping). Such is my experience. What am I
| missing?
|
| Melatonin supplementation seems a questionable idea except
| for adjusting your circadian "inner clock" - according to
| this article:
|
| https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-.
| ..
| n4r9 wrote:
| Perhaps sleep quality doesn't always directly relate to how
| rested you feel afterwards? I've been having a very varied
| amount of sleep for the last few months due to a newborn
| baby. It can definitely happen that a good 5-6 hour stretch
| (the max I get these days) leads to me feeling _more_
| tired. Sometimes running on fumes actually feels easier and
| more wakeful.
| rex_lupi wrote:
| Not nearly as questionable as taking benzos, in any case.
| artursapek wrote:
| Nope, melatonin is best avoided. Read "Why We Sleep".
| floxy wrote:
| "Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" Is Riddled with Scientific
| and Factual Errors"
|
| https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| It seems like Sci Hub stopped working. All the papers I recently
| found on HN and tried to reat appear unavailable.
| pegasus wrote:
| Anna's Archive got them all and then some.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| Nice. Thank you.
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| Getting enough sleep is difficult enough, now we need to get
| enough deep sleep...
|
| The only way for me to get enough good sleep is to either quit my
| job (without worrying the $$) or getting rid of the kid. None is
| doable.
| anonzzzies wrote:
| I have been able to do lucid dreaming since I was 18 (over 30
| years ago) and according to different sleep trackers I'm almost
| always over 25% deep sleep, sometimes a lot more. I guess they
| are related, but don't know for sure.
| meindnoch wrote:
| And what do you do in your lucid dreams?
| anonzzzies wrote:
| Depends on what it is; from shooting zombies to negotiating
| with a mob boss (last night). I cannot really guide what it's
| about but I usually have control. I remember most and I
| usually want to get back in when it's time to get up.
| mebassett wrote:
| "We also examined whether genetic risk for Alzheimer's Disease or
| brain volumes suggestive of early neurodegeneration were
| associated with a reduction in slow-wave sleep. We found that a
| genetic risk factor for Alzheimer's disease, but not brain
| volume, was associated with accelerated declines in slow wave
| sleep"
|
| This sounds like the arrow of causation is pointing the other
| way.
| notlisted wrote:
| Cause and effect is also questioned in (much larger) studies:
| https://www.healthline.com/health-news/the-surprising-link-b...
|
| Interesting quotes:
|
| "
|
| The study found that [ _]longer[_ ] time spent in bed (TIB) was
| associated with significantly [ _]increased[_ ] dementia risk.
| Those in bed for more than 8 hours were far more likely to show
| a cognitive decline during a Mini Mental State Examination
| (MMSE)
|
| [...]
|
| The time individuals went to bed was also highlighted by
| researchers as a critical contributing factor [...] The
| research paper stated that "every 1 hour advance in bedtime
| [before 10 pm] was associated with a 25% increased risk of
| dementia."
|
| "
| soulofmischief wrote:
| I've had chronic insomnia my entire life, and when I do sleep, it
| is never deep sleep, to the point that I typically retain enough
| brain activity to lucid dream.
|
| Dementia isn't an if for me, it's a when. I also think that they
| have the causation backwards.
| loeg wrote:
| > I also think that they have the causation backwards.
|
| You think you already have dementia and it is causing poor
| sleep?
| soulofmischief wrote:
| The root causes that lead to my lifelong chronic insomnia are
| likely the same root causes that will lead to dementia.
| Genetics, environment. And that says nothing of my ADHD and
| physical disability which lead to not exercising enough and
| phases of poor dietary choices, it all swirls into a high
| risk factor for dementia.
| kylebenzle wrote:
| It does seem to be like 90% about being privileged enough
| to spend a lot of time outside in the sun, running around
| with people in a group. Maybe in the distant future we will
| revert to this kind of hunter gater life just because this
| one kinda sucks.
| soulofmischief wrote:
| Modern life is literally driving us crazy.
| loeg wrote:
| Ah, some third variable.
| lukas099 wrote:
| > Dementia isn't an if for me, it's a when.
|
| This seems like an unbeneficial belief to harbor in oneself.
| yawgmoth wrote:
| I currently am stuck at a six hour cycle. Any tips to turn that
| into eight?
| globular-toast wrote:
| From someone who sleeps 8 hours almost every night: just go to
| sleep earlier and /or wake up later.
|
| Impossible to give any better advice without any further
| information. Is the problem not enough hours in the day (e.g.
| time wasted on stuff like commuting etc.)? Or are you just
| unable to stay asleep longer than 6 hours?
| densh wrote:
| And there is a whole other problem of not being able to fall
| asleep. Reducing caffeine helps but not still it's very
| difficult for some.
| globular-toast wrote:
| Reading works for me. Recently I've improved that even more
| using an eReader.
|
| My room is completely dark when I go to sleep. I use
| blackout curtains and have removed any sources of light
| from my room. In the summer it gets light very early in the
| UK (~04:00) and I require ventilation so I also wear an eye
| mask. I use a fan to mask any background noise and, in
| summer, this is blowing directly on me to keep me cool. I
| use a wool duvet which I found the best for temperature
| regulation; I require a weighty covering even when it's
| warm.
|
| I use a Kobo which has an adjustable frontlight that can go
| both very low and very warm (redish). I set the Kobo's
| backlight to the lowest and warmest possible setting. I lie
| on my side with the Kobo on its side leaning on an adjacent
| pillow such that I don't have to hold it. Turning pages
| requires a light tap; there is no scrolling or swiping
| involved. At some point after a few pages of Iain M. Banks,
| or whatever I'm reading at the time (usually science
| fiction), I fall asleep. The Kobo automatically switches
| itself off after I stop turning pages and I wake in the
| morning with it next to me (or sometimes I've moved it but
| can't remember when/why).
|
| It's important not to use something like TV that you need
| to actively switch off at some point and, if you use an
| object like a book or eReader, make sure it won't fall and
| wake you up when you start to nod off. Definitely don't
| hold it up with your hands. Don't use a phone because
| scrolling etc. is far too active and backlit screens just
| don't seem conducive to sleep. An eReader is perfect
| because it means you can turn the lights off but the
| frontlit e-ink screen is more like a book than a phone.
|
| This method has been tried and tested with a partner in the
| same bed. You just need to make sure any objects don't fall
| on or get tangled up with said partner. I have a pillow
| system propped up by my bedside table for this purpose.
| deepsquirrelnet wrote:
| I used to easily sleep 8 hours, then I had a kid with colic,
| followed by 6 months of back to back to back illness from
| daycare. Now I can't sleep longer than 3-4 hours consecutively.
|
| For me, I think part of the problem is not having enough hours
| in the day to take care of myself. If you've gotten very busy
| with work or life, it's hard to do the things you need to do to
| get healthy sleep.
| user_7832 wrote:
| You could look at biphasic or polyphasic sleep. If it makes
| you feel any better, humans would apparently sleep in 2
| chunks for most of history (waking up for a few hours at
| midnight-3am and sleeping again). As long as the total sleep
| duration is adequate, some research shows that it's not
| necessary to get 8 consecutive hours.
| bityard wrote:
| > humans would apparently sleep in 2 chunks for most of
| history (waking up for a few hours at midnight-3am and
| sleeping again)
|
| I have read this claim for decades now, but I have trouble
| believing it. To me, a claim about pre-civilization human
| behavior doesn't have a whole lot of merit unless it can be
| explained as being evolutionarily advantageous to mammals
| in general or humans in particular. Humans are diurnal and
| I can't imagine a scenario in which "wasting" a few hour of
| potential sleep is worth it somehow in the middle of the
| night when it's dark and there's nothing to do anyway.
|
| The closest I can come is that _maybe_ some small
| percentage of early humans were polyphasic sleepers, which
| benefited the tribe by watching out for a pack of hungry
| wolves or enemy tribe attacking in the middle of the night
| or whatever.
| lawgimenez wrote:
| Same here, since having a kid I only averaged 4 hours of
| sleep for over 5 years now. In the morning I'm just gonna
| coffee drunk myself to last the whole day and night. I think
| I need a plan at some point in the near future.
| leokennis wrote:
| Disclaimer: I am not getting 8 hours consistently, but working
| on it...
|
| For me the most beneficial is to reduce the fear of missing
| out. Especially if you have kids, the tendency is to want to
| spend the evening hours when they are already in bed to "live
| your old life": game, watch movies, do other hobbies or
| activities. And then you go to bed too late.
|
| I am trying to accept that I can watch maybe 1 movie per month,
| watch maybe 2 series per year, and read at most 1 book per week
| in the time between ~20:00 and 22:00 that my kids are asleep
| and I can spend freely without impacting my 8 hours of sleep.
|
| So, every year 50 interesting movies come out. I'll never see
| 38 of them. I'll never read that interesting longread. I will
| never read Liu Cixin's "The Three-Body Problem".
| gardenhedge wrote:
| Seems ideal if you're feeling okay. 8 is just a 'magic' number
| sys32768 wrote:
| My mother was the picture of health and happiness when she got
| early onset Alzheimer's.
|
| She was always a very light sleeper, to the point she couldn't
| even sleep in the same bed with dad for many years.
|
| As I have nothing lifestyle related to blame for her disease, I
| wonder whether her brain's glymphatic system was awry.
| artursapek wrote:
| I recommend the book "Why We Sleep" - it opened my eyes to the
| importance of a full 8 hours of sleep. So many people are
| sabotaging their health and professional performance by only
| sleeping like 5-7 hours.
| bethekind wrote:
| An interesting tidbit. Higher Testosterone levels are associated
| with lighter sleeping habits. Something to be aware of.
|
| So theoretically woman would have lower rates of dementia
| durpleDrank wrote:
| I have some unconventional sleep tips for those interested.
|
| DURPLEDRANK'S GUIDE TO BETTER SLEEP: Line your
| sleeping room with books. They are an inexpensive way to
| soundproof your room. If you have noisy neighbors upstairs,
| you'll "hear" them, but more importantly, you won't "feel" it.
| Use comfortable earplugs and a baggy winter hat as a sleep mask.
| Sleep masks can be uncomfortable, so this is a great alternative.
| Play a BROWNIAN NOISE loop on speakers in your room. You can
| easily generate this in Audacity with a few mouse clicks.
| Take antacids before bed. Many sleep problems are linked to acid
| reflux. Drinking carbonated water or water with baking soda can
| make you feel tired instantly. For any scientists out there,
| please credit me for this discovery. If you have acid reflux,
| your brain won't let you sleep. Stay warm. Being
| warm often makes you sleepy, although the reason isn't clear.
| Use red lights in your sleep room to avoid blue light. Replace
| your reading lamp with a red light to help your brain switch into
| sleep mode. Limit screen time. Dim the brightness
| and enable blue light blocking mode on your devices. Older
| devices may be less disruptive to sleep than modern ones.
| Keep a notepad for quick Google searches. Whenever you have a
| random thought, jot it down on a to-do list to avoid grabbing
| your device. This helps you stay off screens.
| Consider taking 1g of melatonin, but note that it may not be very
| effective if you have acid reflux. Elevate your
| sleeping position to combat acid reflux. Even if you don't feel
| it, you might have some built-up reflux if you burp or fart after
| drinking carbonated water. Invest in blackout
| curtains. Cover every blinking light or power LED in
| your room with electrical tape to create a pitch-black
| environment.
|
| TL;DR: In my journey to fix my sleep, the most critical factors
| are 1) managing acid reflux, 2) soundproofing and reducing light
| in the room, and 3) using red light.
| musha68k wrote:
| The book insulation tip is great and could be a good segue into
| replacing reading habits for actual books vs e-reader / other
| displays.
|
| Even with "nightshift red colours" I could stay up reading for
| hours vs even with something very interesting to me in actual
| book form + warm secondary light source = getting sleepy and
| quickly so.
|
| I'm guessing melatonin does get depressed significantly as soon
| as you start looking directly into a light source.
| hackernewds wrote:
| if you have an e-reader swap to the Kindle paper versions and
| dark mode
| roldie wrote:
| I assume you mean 1mg of melatonin?
|
| Also, I've learned that less melatonin is actually more
| effective, so 0.1 MG or 0.3mg is likely a better dosage
| ada1981 wrote:
| I put together this audio for falling to sleep fast, using the
| military method from "Relax and Win" by Bud Winters.
|
| - About 100 years ago the US military developed a technique for
| helping fighter pilots rapidly fall asleep. About 95% of people
| find this helpful. Use this guided sleep sequence to relax your
| entire body and have a deeper, faster, more restorative sleep.
| From your friends at http://EarthPilot.org
|
| https://open.spotify.com/episode/0uXWxpjLrIcMMWzoFMCRkq
| trwhite wrote:
| This is something I think about a lot.
|
| I sleepwalk and sometimes have night terrors (where I hallucinate
| an intruder or spiders on the walls/ceiling). Lately I've been
| having them almost every day, despite practicing good bedtime
| habits.
|
| Am I going to have early onset dementia? I wake up almost every
| morning with a headache from sleep deprivation
| johnchristopher wrote:
| Generic comment: have you checked for sleep apnea ?
| kylebenzle wrote:
| Good sleep seems to be a component of long life (1). Intense
| daily exercise seems to be the best "treatment" we have for
| sleep issues.
|
| Importantly, there are NO medications known to help with
| "sleep" all those pills they sell as "sleep-aids" are
| technically called sedatives, or "hypnotics" medically and
| don't give the same benefits of sleep.
|
| 1. https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-
| Dreams/dp/1501...
| marknutter wrote:
| > where I hallucinate an intruder or spiders on the
| walls/ceiling
|
| This sounds more like sleep paralysis than it does night
| terrors.
| jimmaswell wrote:
| Have you checked your carbon monoxide detectors?
| captainclam wrote:
| Wow, are you me? I also experience this specifically. The
| hallucinations tend to be "spiders" or intruders (spiders in
| quotes because they're more shadowy and ephemeral than your
| standard tarantula) and incidentally, it's been "ramping up"
| for me lately, to the extent that it's a pretty dependable,
| nightly occurrence. I too think about it a lot and worry about
| the early-onset dementia angle.
|
| Do you have any conditions in the broad spectrum of "anxiety"
| disorders? I've had a pretty rocky relationship with my
| sympathetic nervous system; variably severe anxiety, some panic
| attacks, occasional bouts of depersonalization/derealization.
| It seems pretty likely that these symptoms spring from the same
| root cause as the "night terrors." Fortunately I'm not
| personally aware of a link between these issues and dementia,
| though I wouldn't be surprised if someone replies with a link
| to some study that ruins my day.
| manicennui wrote:
| I feel like we basically know what we should be doing to avoid
| many illnesses. Get better sleep, be more active, eat better,
| etc. The problem is almost always finding the willpower to make
| the changes and maintain the good habits long term.
| bitcoin_anon wrote:
| This is being too hard on oneself. Getting better sleep, being
| more active, and eating better are problems of modernity. When
| it got dark outside, our ancestors got sleepy. There was no
| need to exert willpower. Chastising oneself for not having
| enough willpower to flourish in an environment we were not
| designed for is not productive.
|
| Instead, let us change our environments to better suit the
| primates we still are.
| armada651 wrote:
| This. We have created a society where healthy eating, quality
| sleep and sufficient exercise are all considered luxuries
| rather than the default.
|
| The cheapest food options are the unhealthiest. Hours of
| overtime and long commutes prevent sufficient sleep. And
| exercise is considered a leisure activity.
| mcbutterbunz wrote:
| Wouldn't it be nice to wake up when your body said it's got
| enough sleep?
| manicennui wrote:
| I agree, but I guess I don't have any hope that we will fix
| any of these problems. We continue to make all of this worse.
| Many of our jobs wouldn't exist if we weren't working on
| making these problems worse.
| nine_zeros wrote:
| Has anyone tried using lightweight wearables like whoop that
| claim to help improve sleep and recovery? Wondering how
| successful these wearables are.
| bennyz wrote:
| Check "The Quantified Scientist" on youtube, he does very good
| wearable reviews and compares them with sleep labs
| speak_plainly wrote:
| I have no issue with falling asleep but the quality of sleep and
| staying asleep has been an issue.
|
| Taking magnesium threonate has helped immensely (The brand I buy
| is MagEnhance).
|
| Using an Apple Watch as a tracker, my sleep patterns have
| improved greatly including deep sleep, but I wonder if it can get
| better.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Something like 50% of adults do not get enough magnesium.
|
| "Up to 50 percent of US population is magnesium deficient"
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h...
|
| There are numerous sources for this figure; google if you want
| others.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| The way I made things better (though it's always an ongoing
| battle) was getting more consistent about a few key things.
| Maybe you already do this, but the key strategy for me goes
| something like:
|
| - go to bed earlier than you think you need to (9-9:30pm for
| me)
|
| - get outside and moving as early as possible. Ideally in
| bright light, and without a time-sensitive objective. For
| example, leave early to walk to work so it can be leisurely. Or
| wake up early enough that you can just go for a 15-20m walk
| with no destination and wake up your body.
|
| - No screens past 6pm or so. I allow my watch, but I hide my
| phone. I will let it ruin my sleep over and over and over. I'm
| only a hairless ape, and I need to plan to prevent myself from
| doing ape things. The watch doesn't seem to harm my sleep, but
| it functions as my alarm/quick way to set reminders/way to see
| the time or weather/etc. But I need to keep the phone far away.
|
| Different things work for different people, and maybe you're
| already pretty close to something like this anyway. I only
| mention it because I started with magnesium threonate too, and
| it was a long path to better sleep. I wish I figured this out
| 15 years ago!
| ge96 wrote:
| Sleep is when I genuinely feel peace of mind, soon as I'm
| conscious something's wrong
|
| Goal in life is to sleep/wake whenever, bad thing is I can sleep
| a lot too eg. 14 hrs but I normally operate on 5 so I can
| tolerate my crap job
| Duhck wrote:
| I've been going down this rabbit hole for a while and don't have
| any conclusive answers.
|
| I have always slept 7.5 hours in my adult life. I wake up a
| couple times a night briefly (and usually recall 1-2 time a night
| that it happens) but fall back asleep quickly.
|
| My room is dark, and cold. Most of the times when I wake up it's
| because I am warm from my mattress (casper wave).
|
| I am now purchasing a chilling pad for my side of the mattress to
| address that so I sleep deeper and more consistently.
|
| I take magnesium because I am very active and have suffered for
| the last year or so from hypnic jerks, which are terrifying but
| have gone away since I started taking magnesium supplements
| before bed.
|
| I occasionally have a hard time falling asleep or wake up early
| and cant get back to bed, but I still average 7.5hrs over a year
| -- and over 3 years since ive been tracking my sleep nightly.
|
| I get sufficient REM, dont drink alcohol, gave up weed, and only
| have caffeine from 9am - 11am daily (1 coffee usually, sometimes
| a shot of espresso in addition).
|
| Yet my deep sleep averages are ~45 minutes a night.
|
| I am about to be 39, and I am unclear what to change beyond the
| mattress cooling pad which I will measure.
|
| I've also started cold showers when waking up (60 seconds of cold
| to end my shower, working towards 2 minutes).
|
| My family has zero history of Dementia so I am not as worried,
| but I am concerned with staying in tip top cognitive shape if
| possible.
|
| I am tempted to try a sleep study and see what I might learn.
|
| Edit: Lots of comments to address here.
|
| - I exercise 60-90 minutes daily.
|
| - I play a high level of hockey 4 days a week, snowboard or
| mountain bike 5 days a week.
|
| - I am slightly over weight by scale, but I am just an athletic
| build.
|
| - I eat healthy and cook nearly every meal I eat (I live in an
| expensive ski town with only high end eateries so I avoid them).
| Lots of brown rice, protein, fruit, and veggies.
|
| - I walk 30-60 minutes a day (active dog).
|
| - I get plenty of sunlight (within 30 minutes of waking)
| ben_jones wrote:
| You've been very thorough with physical/biological variables
| which would suggest maybe psychological factors could be
| impacting you.
|
| Do you have a high amount of ambient stress in your life?
| Existential fears? Past traumas? Unfulfilled responsibilities?
| Debt?
| avalys wrote:
| Do you have any complaints about your sleeping other than being
| unhappy about this metric some app is reporting?
| Duhck wrote:
| Not really. I feel tired during the day sometimes but way
| less than when I used to work in an office every day. Usually
| a quick walk shakes it off if I have no cardio planned.
|
| I think I'm mostly trying to understand what I can and cannot
| control in my life as I age
| Isthatablackgsd wrote:
| > I am tempted to try a sleep study and see what I might learn.
|
| I strongly recommend to get sleep study, they will help to find
| the root of the symptoms.
|
| 10 years ago, I have issues with my sleeping pattern, waking up
| tired and still tired during the day. After my sleep study, I
| discovered I have sleep apnea which affects how I breathe
| during my sleeping cycle. After the diagnosis, I got a CPAP
| from my insurance and been using it ever since. It improved my
| sleep quality and I am able to dream more often than before.
|
| If you have the same diagnosis as mine in the future, it will
| take some time to get used to Bi/CPAP. It can take up to a year
| to get used to it, it took me two years get used to wearing a
| mask. I was horrified to learn from my Somnologist that 90% of
| his patients are not consistent with CPAP usage or don't bother
| to use them. I know a friend's husband, who is a Physician
| Assistant, have the same diagnosis and refused to use the CPAP.
| His wife been begging him to use it because she can hear how he
| sleep during the night. Still to this day, he refused to use it
| and still complaining about the sleep quality.
| 2devnull wrote:
| "90% of his patients are not consistent with CPAP usage"
|
| That's high. Surely someone can post scientific evidence that
| cpap helps with sleep despite the fact there's almost 100%
| non-compliance.
|
| /s
| y-c-o-m-b wrote:
| It's been well over a decade of CPAP usage every night for
| me, but I still haven't gotten used to the stupid mask. I
| fight with it literally every single night. I own about 4-5
| different masks and have tried probably double that number of
| variants in an attempt to reduce my frustration with it. I
| can't sleep without out it though, so there's no other
| option. I wake up gasping for air within ~3 minutes of sleep.
| That makes me a 100% compliant user over many years. My sleep
| neurologist was blown away by that statistic, citing the same
| issues you described: most people do not consistently use
| their CPAP machines.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Can you even be admitted to a sleep study with a complaint
| about the amount of deep sleep?
| whoodle wrote:
| I've had two sleep studies. I have once been diagnosed with
| type 2 narcolepsy and then later as my sleep hygiene improved
| that was changed to idiopathic hypersomnia. I don't have
| sleep apnea.
|
| At any time I call basically fall asleep within 5 minutes and
| I'm always tired. Has anyone else dealt with this?
|
| I tried modafinil but felt horrible for weeks as I hoped my
| body would adjust. I've also considered armodafinil, but I
| fear the same effects.
|
| The doctor wants me to try xyrem but it scares me, doesn't
| have a lot of studies on it, and it's basically a nonstarter
| because I have young jerks and need to be able to wake up if
| needed.
|
| So all of that to say, is dementia inevitable for me? My
| guess is that I just sleep terrible.
|
| Any advice is welcome.
| herniatedeel wrote:
| I'd at least try the xyrem. I've tried it - didn't work for
| me (my sleep issues are caused by something else), but it's
| not as incapacitating as it's made out to sound.
| whoodle wrote:
| *young kids lol
|
| Hell of a typo
| brigadier132 wrote:
| Some ideas for things to try
|
| 1. Eat at the same time every day. When you eat impacts your
| circadian rhythm.
|
| 2. Sleep and wake up at the same time every day.
|
| 3. Exercise, fatigue from exercise is known to improve sleep.
|
| 4. Expose yourself to sunlight first thing in the morning.
|
| 5. Lose weight.
| nightski wrote:
| I'm not an expert and you should probably listen to the other
| comments but for me it turned out to be stress. I have been
| using a Garmin tracker extensively and when I go on a longer
| vacation and stop thinking about work my stress drops
| tremendously and correspondingly my deep sleep goes up. The
| Garmin is not super accurate, but I find it does a good job
| pointing out trends. Something to consider and it's a lot
| harder fix than just reducing caffeine consumption or stopping
| alcohol consumption.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| I'm convinced that stress is the #1 killer of deep sleep.
|
| Everyone: "you should be less stressed for better health"
|
| Also everyone: "you should work more and take on more
| responsibilities at work"
|
| At 41, all I want to do is take care of myself and my family
| well. Everything else in my life can fight over the remaining
| bits of time.
| gopher2000 wrote:
| > Also everyone: "you should work more and take on more
| responsibilities at work"
|
| Eh this doesn't sound like something everyone says.
| Duhck wrote:
| Stress is hard measure so I don't have a way to say I am more
| or less stressed than normal.
|
| As another poster asked -- I have had tons of trauma but also
| put work in to overcome it. I have a great, healthy life.
|
| I always work hard to quiet my mind but sometimes its hard
| to. I am an entrepreneur but rarely find myself ruminating
| late at night about it (these days). When I am stressed I
| find it harder to fall asleep for sure, but that isn't as
| often as it was when I was younger
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| > I take magnesium because I am very active and have suffered
| for the last year or so from hypnic jerks, which are terrifying
| but have gone away since I started taking magnesium supplements
| before bed.
|
| I'm guessing you're taking magnesium L-threonate (Sometimes
| goes by Magtein). If not, it's worth a try.
|
| > I've also started cold showers when waking up (60 seconds of
| cold to end my shower, working towards 2 minutes).
|
| I do something similar. 3-min cold showers in the morning, yoga
| to regain the heat, then meditation, then breakfast. I feel
| it's relevant to my struggles with attention (doesn't throw me
| off like adderall does)
|
| Best I ever slept was when I was cycling 45 minutes to and from
| work every day. It looks like you're doing quite a lot (of the
| same things I do) but if you're interested in throwing more in
| there... there's soemthing magical about the kind of cardio
| that lets you explore your limits.
| rapsey wrote:
| I've had a long struggle with sleep. The most effective
| supplements are:
|
| * magnesium (threonate form before bed)
|
| * D3 BUT MUST BE TAKEN WITH magnesium. 5000IU + 500mg
| magnesium. These two are linked. Taking D3 without magnesium
| can make a magnesium deficiency worse. This made a monumental
| difference for me.
|
| * B complex also very important
|
| * Glycine improved my quality of sleep
| maayank wrote:
| Do you take the vitamin d daily at nighttime?
| rapsey wrote:
| I take it after breakfast.
| InSteady wrote:
| Vitamin D is fat soluble so it must be take with meals to
| be absorbed.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| The B-100 complex has helped me a lot. I have to use it twice
| a day to undo the damage done from drinking energy drinks
| that have high dosages of inactive B vitamins _which compete
| with the active forms_ and was leading to deficiency and
| nerve issues.
| lukas099 wrote:
| Maybe you should just not worry about it so much.
| mirekrusin wrote:
| I discovered by accident that glycine (~3000 mg) + NAC (they
| also sell it combined as GlyNAC) before bed made my sleep
| noticeably deeper. I'm not taking it to cure sleep but the
| effect is strong enough that I have noticed change, quite big
| actually.
|
| ps. NAC can have sulfury/rotten-egg like scent, don't throw it
| away thinking it's outdated or something, it's normal
| Mistletoe wrote:
| I don't see any mention of exercise in your post.
|
| >However, we do know that moderate aerobic exercise increases
| the amount of slow wave sleep you get. Slow wave sleep refers
| to deep sleep, where the brain and body have a chance to
| rejuvenate.
| Duhck wrote:
| Updated my post, I get 60-90 minutes of cardio a day and
| 30-60 of walking (zone 2)
| theptip wrote:
| Having gone down this route recently, I can +1 the cooling pad.
| I used Ooler, there are many options now.
|
| However also worth considering a better mattress, memory foam
| is really hot. I just upgraded to an innerspring base / latex &
| microcoil top, and my previous issues with overheating are
| gone. YMMV, there are arguments for cooling even if your
| passive situation isn't too hot.
| dota_fanatic wrote:
| As another poster linked, you may be a slow caffeine
| metabolizer. I am and avoiding caffeine entirely makes a big
| difference.
|
| Another thing that might be making a difference is what you do
| in the hour to two hours before sleep. If I do anything
| exciting, like sports, suspenseful media & games, or anything
| analytical, then that will delay how quickly my body relaxes
| into later in the night, which messes up the beginning of the
| night when deep sleep mostly occurs.
|
| Lastly, if you're measuring your deep sleep based off of a
| device that isn't on your head, then take that data with a huge
| grain of salt. I compared sleep data from an Oura ring with the
| Dreem 2 headband and the ring was consistently so wrong as to
| be useless for driving better sleep behavior.
| Duhck wrote:
| This is a great recommendation -- I dont really need caffeine
| but its a ritual I adore. I can definitely give it up so I
| think its where I can start. Thank you!
| krrrh wrote:
| See my comment above about using chocolate as a bridge to
| deal with caffeine withdrawal. For me the brain fog and
| headaches always made it hard to transition to getting off
| caffeine, but chocolate is a good methadone for a week.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38103097
| herf wrote:
| I avoid all "cooling foam" or "gel foam" as it has a relatively
| fixed capacity to absorb heat. In other words, it seems cold in
| the store and also for the first few hours of the night. But
| after it does its phase-change magic, it gets _dramatically_
| hotter and can wake you up around the time cortisol starts
| increasing like 3-4AM.
| bityard wrote:
| Can confirm... I have a foam mattress that claims to have the
| fancy cooling stuff built in. It's actually all-around fine
| in the summer when the temps are 75F inside and I can sleep
| with few/no blankets, but I live in the Midwest and the house
| thermostat is set to heat up to 65F for 2/3 of the year. For
| the first 15 minutes, it's like crawling into a very soft
| refrigerator. And a few hours later, I'll wake up dehydrated
| and soaked in sweat.
|
| I've managed to mostly tame it by putting a quilt or two
| under the bottom sheet.
| mrDmrTmrJ wrote:
| Nothing has helped my sleep more than using 3M medical tape to
| tape my mouth shut during sleep. So I'm forced to breath
| through my noise when I sleep. (Or I wake up and remove the
| tape if I'm stuffed up.)
|
| I had sleep issues all my life. My dentist said it looked like
| I had sleep issues (one side of my teether pushed on more than
| the others) and a surgeon recommended increasing the size of my
| nasal cavity. But I didn't want surgery. When the book "Breath:
| The New Science of a Lost Art" by James Nestor I saw several
| unrelated people report success with this. It's completely
| changed my life and I wish I had started this long ago.
|
| (Obviously not medical advice, I'm not a doctor at all, do your
| own research etc.)
| hattmall wrote:
| Have you ever tried a different sleep schedule? Or have you
| ever noticed a difference in a different timezone?
|
| For me I get deep sleep best between around 8-10Pm and about
| 9Am-1pm. My sleep at night is fairly restless even if I try and
| do all the proper steps, but I can get great sleep pretty much
| no matter what during those hours.
| drzaiusapelord wrote:
| For a lot of people, zero caffeine is the only way to get
| proper sleep.
| aantix wrote:
| If you're a slow metabolizer of caffeine like I am, stay away
| from caffeine.
|
| CYP1A2
|
| https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-cyp1a2/
|
| The difference in sleep quality is dramatic.
|
| If I have caffeine, even a small 20mg at 7am, I'm up 4-6 times
| the next night, going to the bathroom, superficial sleep.
|
| Without caffeine, I'm in a deep sleep. So much so that I don't
| change positions at all, and my body slightly aches from being in
| the same position so long. My bladder nearly feels like it's
| going to burst, because I've slept so long.
|
| There was a study I saw while back that said eating cruciferous
| vegetables speeds up caffeine metabolism. I've tried that, but
| that didn't seem to help. The caffeine still seemed to disturb my
| sleep. I tried BrocoMax, a broccoli supplement, that didn't seem
| to help either.
|
| Exercise helps a little bit. But it's still not the quality of
| sleep I receive with zero caffeine.
|
| I think much faster when I drink caffeine. Recently I revisited
| this issue and tried micro-dosing 5-Hour Energy (2mL). At first
| it seemed promising. But then it seems to slowly build up in my
| system. Sleep quality deteriorates slower. But the deterioration
| is there. I prematurely posted this status.
|
| https://twitter.com/aantix/status/1706020516060971399
|
| Sadly, it doesn't appear that I can drink caffeine and have
| quality sleep.
|
| I hate that I have to choose.
| lpa22 wrote:
| It took me far too long to realize caffeine was the cause of my
| restless sleep issues. Even just 80mg at 10am. I thought it was
| stress. There's definitely millions of other people that don't
| realize caffeine is killing them slowly due to lack of good
| sleep, and just continue the cycle.
| dharma1 wrote:
| same here - I can still feel the effects of a cup of coffee at
| midnight that I drank at 10am
| 2devnull wrote:
| For some people, the effects of caffeine seem to be permanent.
| I am one.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Can you expand on this?
| 2devnull wrote:
| Not a lot.
| shrimp_emoji wrote:
| The alertness and anxiety just stacks with every cup and
| never wears off. The next day, it's even higher with that
| day's caffeine. The next day, moreso. Eventually, you
| reach, and then surpass, supernatural levels of mental
| overdrive, like cheesing INT in Morrowind, and you never
| come back down. With every sip, you know nothing will
| ever be the same.
| dmd wrote:
| > small 20mg
|
| And if you're someone like me - beware that 'decaf' really
| isn't. Even as little as *5 mg* of caffeine causes me
| everything from sleeplessness to migraines (verified with a
| double blind study administered by my wife!)
| olalonde wrote:
| Nitpick: assuming your wife knew which sample was decaf and
| which was regular coffee, it would be a single-blind
| experiment.
| dmd wrote:
| Correct, which is why I said it was double-blind.
| matsz wrote:
| Could you describe the steps you took to perform this
| experiment? I'm curious and would love to do that myself.
| dmd wrote:
| It's definitely easier with a 3rd party, but here's what
| we did. Note that before this experiment I hadn't had any
| caffeine at all for several years because I was pretty
| sure it affected me badly.
|
| (1) Experimenter dissolved measured weight caffeine
| powder in water, and divided it into various measured
| portions, and labeled them with unique numbers. Then made
| identical measured portions of pure water, also labeled.
| She sealed the number assignments in an envelope.
|
| (2) On experiment days, I chose a water portion,
| recording the day and number in secret - she could not
| see which portion I chose or what number it was. I then
| poured the water into whatever (zero caffeine!) drink (or
| whatever else I could mix it in with) I was having. I
| used drinks and food with strong enough flavors that I
| definitely could not taste the possible caffeine
| addition.
|
| So now neither of us knows whether I took one of the
| caffeine ones.
|
| (3) I recorded the day's results.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| How did you account for the placebo effect?
|
| Decaf coffee tastes about the same as regular coffee (some
| people claim to tell the difference, but I can't except that
| when I get decaf it's the cheap mass produced stuff and for
| regular coffee I like to support local roasters). Maybe the
| taste was triggering the same effects?
| dmd wrote:
| See my comment here.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38101401
| yangikan wrote:
| Is there a place where I can get a whole genome sequencing and
| where they don't sell my data?
| conradev wrote:
| I used Dante Labs and asked them to delete my data under the
| GDPR after downloading it
|
| They give you all the data - raw reads and a whole aligned
| genome for a fairly reasonable price
| aantix wrote:
| Nebula Genomics has a pretty good privacy policy.
|
| https://nebula.org/ownership-of-your-genetic-data/
| astrange wrote:
| Selling data is the credit card and ad tech industry, not
| genetics. Your 23AndMe data has approximately no value unless
| you take the research surveys, since there's nothing to
| associate it with.
| conradev wrote:
| I also hate that I have to choose. I purchased 10mg caffeine
| gummies and was optimistic, but, like you, even if I have _two_
| at 7am I feel the effects at 11pm when trying to sleep.
|
| I wish I could alter the amount or intake mechanism and be
| fine, but it's fundamentally what happens once it's in my
| bloodstream.
| pastor_bob wrote:
| >My bladder nearly feels like it's going to burst, because I've
| slept so long.
|
| I don't think having to pee has anything to do with the type of
| sleep you get. I've heard, if anything, it's a symptom of sleep
| apnea.
| Afforess wrote:
| I'm an A/C, neither AA nor CC. Not a lot out there on that,
| some say "slow" is dominant, but that leaves me confused
| because I have none of the problems you've described and I
| drink 200-400mg of caffeine a day (monster energy + 3x 12oz
| soda).
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| A/C is still considered a slow metabolizer. This is just one
| allele that affects caffeine metabolism... there is still
| probably a ton of variability from person to person within
| the same allele here. I am A/C and have all of the problems
| described here.
| kieranmaine wrote:
| Apologies for the lazy comment (I know I could do the research,
| but I'm busy atm).
|
| I 100% agree this is an affect of caffeine, but I'm also
| interested in what research on the following shows:
|
| 1. How does caffeine compare to other factors (stress,
| exercise, diet) in affecting sleep? 2. Does caffeine have a
| placebo affect on sleep quality?
|
| I ask these questions, as I've found that caffeine does affect
| my sleep quality, but at the same time stress levels are
| probably a better predictor of how well I sleep.
| amelius wrote:
| Any way to boost CYP1A2 or any other gene involved in coffee
| metabolism?
| aantix wrote:
| Nothing that I have found.
|
| Eating cruciferous vegetables, sleep, nothing has seemed to
| help much.
|
| I tried taking BroccoMax for its Sulforaphane content. As
| suggested in the article below. Even when taking BroccoMax,
| ingesting a cup of coffee, my sleep still suffered.
|
| Fast Caffeine Metabolism for Better Sleep with Sulforaphane
|
| https://burtonator.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/fast-caffeine-
| me...
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| The linked article mentions cruciferous vegetables
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I don't know how people put up with waking up to pee. Is it
| really worth it to eat/drink within a few hours of bedtime if
| it's going to wake you up at 3am?
| johnmaguire wrote:
| On the flip side, I typically drink 16-32 oz of water before
| sleeping and never wake up needing to pee.
| ryandetzel wrote:
| If I drink past 2pm I'm up...weird but only started after I
| was 40 really. I'm starting to think my sleep just sucks so
| my mind is more aware that I have to go and not that
| something has changed with my bladder
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| I believe that may be an indicator of an enlarged prostate,
| if you have one.
| RoyalHenOil wrote:
| It's a circadian rhythm thing. You get into a habit of peeing
| at specific times, and that can include in the middle of the
| night.
|
| You can fix the habit by waiting a half hour longer to pee
| each night until you can make it to the morning, but this
| does involve lying awake in bed for a while, which is much
| worse for your sleep than just getting up quickly to pee.
| rcconf wrote:
| I have the same issue, it's truly unfortunate. What's odd is I
| forget about what caffeine does to my sleep and after a few
| weeks/months of drinking it, I'm wondering why I'm so stressed,
| tired and can't get ANY sleep.
|
| I stop drinking coffee and BAM, I sleep like a baby. It doesn't
| MATTER when I drink it, I can drink it at 6AM and I will not
| have a good deep sleep. I am unsure if this is coincidence, but
| I also notice I remember way less dreams when I am on caffeine
| than not. I also find it's a compounding effect which is why
| it's slightly annoying.
|
| If I drink 1 cup, in 2 weeks, my sleep will be fine so I will
| think, okay, it's not the caffeine. Then I will continue
| drinking it for weeks and suddenly I haven't had a good nights
| rest in weeks and I'm wondering what is going on. Not having
| deep sleep for weeks really has a big impact on your stress
| levels, memory, emotional well being and general energy levels.
|
| The annoying part is coffee is so good for productivity so I go
| through cycles (also you start to think it's the stress not the
| caffeine that's causing the sleep issue!)
|
| Weeks of stressful work - drink more caffeine to get all the
| work done - bad sleep, bad mood, bad energy levels, aka all the
| negative affects from not having enough deep sleep.
|
| Weeks of less stressful work, no caffeine, great sleep, great
| mood/energy levels, etc.
|
| I've always convinced myself that not drinking caffeine for
| deep sleep is just placebo, but I've tested it so many times
| that it just can't be.
|
| Is there a way to test if you're a slower metabolizer? I know
| my partner can drink 3 cups and she is totally fine, lucky her!
| I'm 100% convinced I am, but it would be cool to test by some
| sort of blood/urine test?
| aantix wrote:
| You'll have to do a genetic test. Nebula, 23andme, etc.
|
| Then look at CYP1A2, see if you have the C/C genotype.
|
| Definitely read the Genetic Life Hacks article that I linked
| to above.
| grvdrm wrote:
| So if C/C then slow metabolizer?
| aantix wrote:
| Correct. C/C is the genotype.
|
| Marker rs762551, as another poster noted above.
|
| For 23andme customers:
| https://you.23andme.com/tools/data/?query=rs762551
| throwaway128128 wrote:
| Thank you for sharing your link.
|
| Groan, I'm A/C!!
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| CYP1A2 is the whole gene- you need to look at marker
| rs762551 within CYP1A2. Both the C/C and A/C genotype are
| slow caffeine metabolizers. The most common genotype is
| A/A, which is a fast metabolizer.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/snp/rs762551
| jamroom wrote:
| Do you have a link to one that shows A/C? I'm only seeing
| C/C (I'm A/C so curious). Thanks!
| dommer wrote:
| Stay away from 23andme if you have any privacy concerns.
| I've worked with providers of DNA insights and advice that
| don't build their revenue model on selling your data. For
| example DNAPal.me
| astrange wrote:
| They do not sell your data; Facebook and Google also
| don't sell your data.
|
| Your DNA is worthless[0] and impossible to hide. If
| someone did want your DNA there is nothing you could do
| to stop them. You leave it everywhere you go.
|
| [0] except to your children you don't know you have
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| Yeah, but why not support companies doing "the right
| thing" and nudge the trend towards companies that respect
| and preserve the privacy interests of their customers.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Fascinating. What are your deep sleep totals on and off
| caffeine?
| MetallicDragon wrote:
| This sounds like the same cycle I go through, especially the
| forgetting part. I've found that cycling caffeine through the
| week (taking a break on weekends) and just not having too
| much even during the week can help maintain the productivity,
| but it also means spending my weekends in a tired daze. I
| think I just need to commit to not having any caffeine, or if
| I do, only taking it temporarily before stopping again.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| So if I can fall asleep after moderate amounts (like, right
| away after intake), this prolly doesn't affect me, no?
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| Yours and all of the child comments are fascinating to me. I
| can drink a cup of coffee right before bed and it doesn't seem
| to affect my sleep noticeably (e.g. I feel just as refreshed
| the next day as when I don't).
|
| I have even tried to give it up multiple times and have lasted
| well over a month before deciding that I was still more tired
| (and irritable) than when summoning it.
| skottenborg wrote:
| It's very interesting how different reactions to caffeine are.
| I can take a 200 mg caffeine pill 5 hours before sleep and have
| no trouble sleeping. My Samsung smartwatch doesn't indicate any
| loss of deep sleep either (1-2 hours usually).
|
| I do have a high tolerance though, but I don't weight much
| either.
| baby wrote:
| It's interesting because this was me. I couldn't drink coffee,
| even in the morning, without getting pretty strong jitters AND
| not being able to sleep at night. I didn't know it could be
| because of slow metabolizing.
|
| But I've been forcing myself to drink coffee for some of its
| benefits (heart and focus) and now I can drink coffee at 3pm,
| no jitters, no effect to sleep. I'm actually wondering if I
| sleep better by drinking coffee because I'm more active during
| the day and much more tired when I hit the bed now.
| aantix wrote:
| For those with impacted sleep due to caffeine -
|
| Have you found any supplements or alternatives that increase
| focus but did not impact your sleep quality?
|
| Sadly, I have no alternative recommendations. Everything that
| claims to increase "focus", also appears to impact my sleep.
| manifoldgeo wrote:
| If you have ADD or ADHD, Ritalin might help. I have severe
| ADHD that I refused to treat for decades, but I recently gave
| in.
|
| I am _hugely_ sensitive to caffeine and feel a buzz even from
| decaf. It ruins my sleep in a similar way to what a couple
| people in this thread describe.
|
| I take 10mg of instant-release Ritalin at 7AM each day, and
| it allows me to focus and deliver. It wears off by around
| 2-3PM, and I sleep like a rock most nights.
|
| There are downsides as well: once it wears off, it leaves you
| mentally drained until you've slept. Also, there's a
| potential for building a tolerance, as well as potential for
| addiction. I've been lucky in both cases so far, but ymmv.
| crucialfelix wrote:
| Creatine, phenylpiracetam, tyrosine, 7 minute workout.
| krrrh wrote:
| Low dose nicotine gum does help, but it's pretty habit
| forming. I'm not convinced it's worse than taking daily ADHD
| medication or caffeine though.
|
| Aerobic exercise (preferably outdoors) is the one thing that
| works with mostly positive side effects.
| Rewrap3643 wrote:
| The metabolite of nicotine has a long half-life and
| probably degrades sleep quality.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9443078/
| asicsarecool wrote:
| L-theanine
|
| Seriously.
|
| I panic if I run out
| svachalek wrote:
| Kava. It's calming unlike caffeine, but also seems to help
| concentration. It seems to flush out of my system very
| quickly, so that I haven't noticed it affecting sleep either
| way.
| illegalsmile wrote:
| Interesting, I've been working on my sleep and read this from
| the article you posted: Curcumin is an inhibitor of CYP1A2.
|
| I sleep really well with a 200-400mg of Ibuprofen but it's not
| something I want to take often or at all for sleep.
| Curcumin/turmeric is also anti-inflammatory. I'm starting to
| think that cutting out all caffeine (cup of black tea in the
| morning) and taking some curcumin might be the way to better
| sleep.
| Reason077 wrote:
| Definitely be careful with Ibuprofen. Real risk of messing up
| your stomach if you take it too regularly.
| bilsbie wrote:
| How long have you been off of caffiene?
|
| I'd think in the first few months of quitting you'd be
| overtired from withdraw and might sleep better.
| grvdrm wrote:
| Did you ever experiment with tea? Your message is clear on
| caffeine overall but I am curious if you tried tea in the
| process of figuring this out.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Thanks for pointing this out! I'm a slow caffeine metabolizer
| also, and it took a long time to notice what is happening in my
| body, and not listen to other people that say things like "just
| stop drinking coffee before 5pm" or "limit to 4 cups a day"
| that totally don't work for me.
| aantix wrote:
| This was also a good lesson that if I continued to listen to
| the pop science, the general consensus was that coffee was a
| net positive.
|
| And that was my stance for a long time.
|
| I didn't realize that there could be such a distinction in
| one's reaction to caffeine intake.
|
| "The genetics of caffeine sensitivity also have implications
| for cardiovascular health.
|
| In a 2006 study of more than 4,000 people, researchers found
| that for slow metabolizers, consuming more cups of coffee per
| day was associated with an increased risk of a heart attack.
| Fast metabolizers had no such increased risks."
| eslaught wrote:
| How do you know what kind you are?
|
| I have zero response to caffeine up to a certain point, and
| then past that I get shaky and anxious. One cup of tea, no
| response. Two is too much. Coffee is often on the edge. But
| no effect on alertness no matter how much or little I take.
| aantix wrote:
| You'll have to do a genetic test like Nebula, 23andme, etc.
| Then look at CYP1A2, marker rs762551, to see if you have
| the C/C genotype.
|
| If you have a 23andme account:
|
| https://you.23andme.com/tools/data/?query=rs762551
| protomolecule wrote:
| Or not.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/technology/hackers-advertise-
| sale-23...
| endorphine wrote:
| Have you tried limiting it to 1 coffee per week? Wondering how
| that would play out
| krrrh wrote:
| For anyone reading this and wanting to get off caffeine, but
| finding it difficult because of withdrawal symptoms like
| headaches, here's a trick that makes it easier.
|
| If you're drinking a morning coffee you'll be getting 100-200mg
| of caffeine. But even a small amount of caffeine will take
| almost all the edge off withdrawal and prevent headaches. A 75g
| dark chocolate bar at 70% will give you 20-25mg of caffeine.
| Costco sells boxes of Lindt chocolate bars that meet this
| criteria. Eat one in the morning instead of coffee (the sugar
| and theobromine seems to help as well). Once you've done this
| for a week it's easy to just stop because most people won't get
| withdrawal symptoms from 20mg.
| w4ffl35 wrote:
| Cold turkey. I do it all the time. Not hard but yes I get a
| headache. I don't understand people who have to ease their
| way off a substance.
| cseleborg wrote:
| There was a joke like that, it went something like:
| "Quitting smoking is so easy, I've done it so many times
| already!"
| taude wrote:
| I typically weigh my coffee, either for making espresso (20g)
| or for pourovers (25g). Last time I quit, went like this: a)
| move from two espressos -> one espresso for a few days. Once
| steady on a single 20g espresso... b) move from 20g espresso
| to 20g pouroer. c) each day take a few grams off the pour
| over. The last time I made one I used 5 mg beans, and then
| quit pretty easily the next day.
|
| This taper method made it totally doable for me, no
| headaches. The hardest part was going from 2 espressos to 1,
| mostly because of the habit. I substituted in herbal tea for
| my second cup....
| DavideNL wrote:
| > _" 75g dark chocolate bar at 70%"_
|
| > _" Eat one in the morning"_
|
| That's like ~ 35gr. of fat in the morning of which ~ 20gr.
| saturated fat. Ouch...
| astrange wrote:
| That's a great time for fats. Definitely better than the
| usual breakfast approach of giving yourself an insulin
| spike.
| astrange wrote:
| You could try decaf plus tyrosine/phenylalanine supplements
| as well.
|
| Theobromine is another stimulant, so I'm not sure it helps.
| mirekrusin wrote:
| I found switching to green tea easy. Got infusion jug and
| still have morning routine to do it, it's actually much more
| convenient to have it at the desk to refill. You can also
| control how intense you want it - with water temperature and
| quantity - as even very light version is great to sip through
| the day.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Actually I envy you. I can drink one expresso or two one hour
| before sleep and will sleep the same. It is kind of annoying
| because sometimes I wanted to pull an all-nighter and coffee
| doesn't have the effect in me that I wanted and I end up
| sleeping anyway.
| SillyUsername wrote:
| I'm f'ed as are probably a lot of people who have anxiety or have
| ideas that wake them up. How the heck is a person meant to stop
| that? :(
| johndevor wrote:
| Meditation?
| mxmbrb wrote:
| A simple realization helped me to get out of the loop of night
| thoughts a lot quicker:
|
| At night your reasoning abilty is massively impaired by
| melatonin. Thats why your thoughts keep going in circles and
| one does not find the most obvious solutions for a problem.
| There is only one thing to do. Let it go. You are at your
| worst, you're not supposed to reason right now.
|
| This simple fact fixed crushing night thoughts for me and a
| friend of mine.
| monological wrote:
| Main reason is due to purging of b-amyloid by the glymphatic
| system, which seems to happen during deep sleep. High b-amyloid
| plaque build up is correlated with Alzheimer's disease.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7698404/
| Tarq0n wrote:
| The causal relationship between amyloid plaque and alzheimers
| is controversial nowadays.
| monological wrote:
| It's not "casual". Did you read the paper I linked?
| dbspin wrote:
| As someone who's had pretty profound sleep apnea related insomnia
| (resistant to sleep hygiene and CBT-I) for at least 20 years
| (since my mid twenties), this is super dispiriting.
| baby wrote:
| Same here + acid reflux that keep me awake at night sometimes.
| tradesmanhelix wrote:
| Anecdotally, Steve Gibson's "Healthy Sleep Formula" [1] has been
| a lifesaver for me.
|
| As I've gotten older, the biggest challenge has been falling back
| asleep in the middle of the night after a wake up (for whatever
| reason, i.e., bathroom, noises, etc.), but the Niacinamide esp.
| from the formula seems to fix this and I sleep great. Thank you
| Steve!!
|
| [1] https://www.grc.com/health/sleep/healthy_sleep_formula.htm
| artylerzysta wrote:
| My sleeping improved after moving wifi router and cell phone away
| from my bed.
| londons_explore wrote:
| I suspect it was the cell phone more than the wifi router...
|
| as well as the constant temptation to check it for messages
| there is the random 3am buzzing as some app sends a spam
| notification.
| throitallaway wrote:
| Yes, although I've seen some routers (and other electronic
| devices) that have coil whine (which would be very
| distracting for sleep.)
| sidcool wrote:
| How to increase deep sleep?
| eagle2com wrote:
| Research concerning sleep is very interesting, but also extremely
| counterproductive for me. Now I have yet another thing to worry
| about if I don't sleep enough/correctly, and thus I _will_ sleep
| worse for a while.
| kbrkbr wrote:
| How is this study different from a study suggesting that taking
| off one's shoes before sleeping can reduce headache in the
| morning? There may be a hidden cause that leads to sleep
| reduction and dementia, no?
| TMWNN wrote:
| How does Monash have an `.edu`? I thought the only non-US
| institutions with one are the Universities of Toronto and
| Montreal, for historical reasons.
| khazhoux wrote:
| The biggest bang-for-buck to improve your sleep:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NMTQM8M
|
| Stick these tubes up your nose (all the way in!) and enjoy free-
| flowing air passage all night.
|
| The first couple of days will be a bit uncomfortable and weird to
| have these things jammed in there, but you forget about them very
| quickly, and the huge increase in oxygen intake is amazing. I
| hate sleeping without them now.
| noname120 wrote:
| Does this work even for people who don't snore? No risk of
| hurting yourself in your sleep if you suddenly move around?
| MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
| It probably advertises to snorers because that's a big draw.
| In truth it simply makes it easier to breathe through your
| nose, similar to Breathe Right nose strips. (So yes it can
| benefit anyone who wants better nose breathing.) Snoring
| happens farther back in your throat.
| khazhoux wrote:
| Exactly. It's not about snoring. It just keeps your nostril
| flared open so it doesn't choke the amount of air that can
| flow. And, much more comfortable and effective than those
| sticky strips.
| CSSer wrote:
| Jokes on you. I've already got a huge schnoz. Seriously though,
| now I'm wondering if that's doing me any favors.
| khazhoux wrote:
| Well, try this simple experiment. Tilt your head 90deg and
| nose-breathe. Now grab your up-facing nostril and pull it
| wide open. You're probably taking in a lot more air now, with
| zero resistance. That's what these tubes do.
| riversflow wrote:
| So if anyone here is really desperate to get deep sleep and can't
| despite lots of effort, it might be worth looking into Delta
| sleep inducing peptide(DSIP). My father has fibromyalgia and
| struggles to get any restorative sleep most nights, I came across
| DSIP while trying to figure out how to help him. Unfortunately I
| can't speak to it's effectiveness as neither of us can afford
| DSIP, although it has come down significantly in price in the
| last several years.
| xupybd wrote:
| Having recently started treating my sleep apnea the difference is
| startling. Being able to remember and think like this is unreal.
| I have no idea how I remained employed for so long in my previous
| state.
|
| Sleep quality is so important.
| nmz wrote:
| Is this surprising anyone? If lack of sleep causes a myriad of
| symptoms like hallucinations, mood swings and etc. Then the
| opposite would probably true.
| shakil wrote:
| Here we go again confusing correlation with causation. The
| medical field is mired with these: eat less to lose weight,
| reduce cholesterol to prevent heart attacks, reduce stress to
| prevent stomach ulcers ...
|
| Have they considered people prone to dementia just aren't able to
| get quality sleep, and both of these are due to some other
| underlying cause where fixing one doesn't really fix the other?
| rzmmm wrote:
| This kind of prospective study is not perfect but it's what is
| possible for this type of risk factor and disease. Researchers
| can't create an RCT study with blinded deep sleep intervention
| group with placebo and then after 17 years see which got less
| dementia. The authors avoid the C-word on purpose but it's
| implied that this kind of study brings more evidence than just
| association.
| gopher2000 wrote:
| The article is literally titled "Association Between Slow-Wave
| Sleep Loss and Incident Dementia". Association is not
| causation.
| 3cats-in-a-coat wrote:
| Or maybe dementia prevents deep sleep, which is much more logical
| given many diseases in general disrupt proper sleep.
|
| I'm sick of low-quality studies which try to draw causative
| conclusions from correlative observations (and usually often
| quite weak ones).
|
| Stop writing garbage papers.
| haxiomic wrote:
| Does any one have experience with rapid breathing while sleeping?
|
| I've been trying to fix my long-term sleep issues for a while and
| I often don't get much deep sleep.
|
| When I record my sleep through an Apple Watch and breathing
| microphone, I find my breathing rate goes _up_ , often 25-30
| breaths per minute but while awake it's < 20. I can't seem to
| find anything online that's relevant. It's been this way for the
| year I've been monitoring, does this happen to anyone else?
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