[HN Gopher] Copying Angry Birds with nothing but AI
___________________________________________________________________
Copying Angry Birds with nothing but AI
Author : hackerbeat
Score : 210 points
Date : 2023-10-31 18:27 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| NKosmatos wrote:
| We're living in interesting times, especially from AI, ML and
| coding point of view. The possibilities seem endless and the
| reach of such tools is going to lead to an "explosion" of
| creativity.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| I would suggest that the past is likely a good guide in this
| case. Personal Computers, easier languages, HTML, World Wide
| Web did not really make non-creative people into creative
| people. I can really speak for myself. I can copy some things,
| but I rarely can glue and remix them together in a way that
| make them desirable. Personally, this is the same way I see the
| AI. There is potential here sure, but I do not think 2 million
| angry bird clones is an actual threat to a creative. Now, it
| will hurt low effort crap, but there is so much low effort crap
| out there already..
| hluska wrote:
| I agree with you with one small reservation. This tech is an
| excellent way to get quick prototypes out. Most people will
| never go beyond that so we will see a lot more crap. But for
| the people that do, being able to prototype something quickly
| could result in some noticeably new ideas.
| conductr wrote:
| It is interesting to watch. Especially as an arch in "my life
| with technology", this time around I'm a bystander watching
| what people can do with it and it is impressive. My tinkering
| as not been as fruitful. I feel like my grandparents that never
| caught on to Google-fu but, just like my grandparents, I'm ok
| with it.
| franze wrote:
| After seeing my son rage-tapping a loading spinner I / GPT coded
| this game on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
|
| https://spinner.franzai.com/
|
| Think it could be an interesting UX pattern. Having interactive
| loading (spinner) games that at least give is feedback that our
| actions (even in between things) have impact.
| mhitza wrote:
| It is an interesting approach to loading screens, and
| personally I would have expected way more games to use such a
| feature. Not AAAs, of course, but indie games.
|
| I clearly recalled having read the news about the patent of
| this having expired a while ago, and from a quick search, a
| while ago, has been 8 years ago
| https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/loading-screen-game-pa...
| dave84 wrote:
| I remember playing Galaga while Tekken loaded on the PS1.
| feirlane wrote:
| For what is worth, my partner and I just had a good laugh
| playing this with four hands and pushing it over 25. Really fun
| fidget, thanks for sharing!
| GalaxyNova wrote:
| I got it to level 7
| danielvaughn wrote:
| This is more interesting than the deluge of posts that say "I
| created an iOS app in 30 minutes using ChatGPT!" Which doesn't
| mean much because it could've done nothing more than create a
| simple hello world.
|
| This one at least shows the finished product, which is indeed
| pretty impressive.
|
| Some details I'd need to know are (a) how long did it take, (b)
| how many prompts, (c) how many course-corrections were required,
| and (d) how competent this individual was with the technologies
| in question.
|
| I've personally found ChatGPT extremely empowering in lots of
| scenarios, but code generation was not among them.
| cryptoz wrote:
| I've been playing with ChatGPT code generation to make entire
| sites with flask, python, html+js+css, backed with SQLite db
| and it's amazing. I've had it write like 5k lines that are all
| live in prod and working (not much traffic lol but still).
|
| A huge huge factor is knowing the limitations and getting
| better at prompting. And identifying likely hallucinations and
| asking for risks etc.
|
| I've found it best with tech I don't know well (I'm an android
| dev using it to make websites, something I haven't done myself
| in like 15 years).
|
| Most of the coolest stuff for me is help with sysadmin and
| running the server. The ability to debug gunicorn errors is
| great.
|
| I do have to modify the code it outputs as the project grows
| and it loses context, but honestly the context limits are the
| biggest hurdle for bigger projects and those will be lifted
| soon.
|
| Edit: Most recent site I made with like 95% code from ChatGPT
| is https://cosmictrip.space/ which generates prompts with GPT-4
| that are then used to generate space images with DALL-E.
|
| It's a simple site but there is a secret adventure game I'm
| working on (GPT+Dall-E) that is open-ended image+text AI-driven
| game. I'm hoping to launch before Nov 6 with DALL-E 3 API
| (hopefully...!). The adventure game is also written like 95%+
| by ChatGPT.
|
| I've had such great success with it coding that I'm using the
| GPT-4 API with an agent I'm making (everyone is huh). I have
| function calling hooked up to generate structured subtasks that
| the agent can then write the code for, and support for files to
| include context, chat with your code, etc. It's not ready to
| show but the GPT-4 code generation abilities are really
| incredible - but you have to be experienced at prompting. Your
| first prompts aren't likely to be great, which is why I'm
| hoping my agent can have success. The idea of the agent I'm
| writing is a Jira/kanban style board where you have AI coders
| assigned to tasks that you can approve and modify etc. The
| tickets should automatically move across the columns as the AI
| checks the work etc.
| maxwelljoslyn wrote:
| +1 for its suitability in helping with systems
| administration.
|
| One responsibility at my current job is administering a
| Windows server and trying to get it to do things that are
| easy on a Unix -- that should be easy anywhere -- but, on
| Windows, seem to inevitably degrade into nightmares. ChadGPT
| has given me huge amounts of blessed ammo to shoot at the
| nightmares, and there's no way I could do that portion of the
| job in a feasible time frame without it.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| I feel that trapping your AI agents in a kanban board isn't
| going to do your survival chances a lot of good when the
| robot apocalypse inevitably comes for us meatbags.
| meiraleal wrote:
| Parents know what's better for they kids, they will
| understand
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| Is it at all possible for you (or someone reading who has
| done something similar) to share their chat?
|
| Reading good prompting is probably one of the better ways of
| learning how to do it.
| cryptoz wrote:
| That is a great point and I will definitely share my
| prompting experience and some real prompts in a blog post
| this week. I'll come back here and link to it when ready.
| croes wrote:
| How much of these 95% is boilerplate code?
| cryptoz wrote:
| Some for sure but all the algorithms (simple ones) and such
| is also done successfully by ChatGPT.
| strombofulous wrote:
| https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363669685916095 is
| relevant
|
| > Although the game is just 600 lines of which I haven't
| written ANY, [coding the game] was the most challenging part
|
| Not quite hello world, but not too much more difficult than a
| shopping list. The really impressive thing to me is you can
| make angry birds with just 600 loc (and a couple libraries)
| samspenc wrote:
| My guess is that the main parts of the game are physics
| (collisions etc) and the scoring system, so that part wasn't
| too surprising to me.
|
| I was pleasantly surprised at the visual quality, I knew
| Midjourney could produce quality graphics assets, but I guess
| I didn't realize how easy it was to pull into a game.
| croes wrote:
| There are lots of open source Angry bird clones, so it's not
| quite as impressive as it seems.
|
| Programming a new game without dozens of existing templates
| would be a better litmus test.
| fauria wrote:
| Sumplete would be a good example: https://sumplete.com/
| bigfishrunning wrote:
| So AI made a cheap copy of something people made...Can it do
| anything else?
| solardev wrote:
| It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like
| to downplay its every achievement
| WoodenChair wrote:
| > It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who
| like to downplay its every achievement
|
| It's not really "its" achievement. There are many open source
| repositories of Flappy Bird that it was trained on and there
| are many brilliant engineers at Google and OpenAI who have
| worked on LLM technology. It is their achievement if
| anything. It is a product. A product of others' achievement.
| You don't say Excel had an achievement when it calculates a
| good formula for you? Do you say a neural network that
| produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say
| the people who developed it did.
| og_kalu wrote:
| >Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to
| text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed
| it did.
|
| Sure Why not? The engineers at google and open ai or
| wherever else trained the models but they didn't teach it
| how to do anything it does because they don't know how to
| teach it to do anything it does. So yeah the achievement is
| on the neural network.
|
| Many people gave the likes of alpha go achievement on super
| human Go play.
| throw555chip wrote:
| > So yeah the achievement is on the neural network.
|
| It is? OK, tell them to completely clear the model of any
| angry bird original and clone code, data and assets that
| it scarfed from the Internet.
|
| It can retain scarfed definitions of angry and bird as
| well as scarfed information on making a 2D video game.
|
| Then tell the model to create the game and see what if
| anything it comes up with.
| simonw wrote:
| In terms of the code, I don't think it would be hard to
| create an Angry Bird clone of this quality using a GPT-4
| scale model that had somehow had all knowledge of Angry
| Birds excluded from it.
|
| Most of the Angry Birds mechanics in this demo come from
| the underlying Matter 2D library. Relevant demo here:
| https://brm.io/matter-js/demo/#slingshot
|
| Honestly, that's most of the code part accounted for.
|
| The bigger question is the graphical assets. The
| developer shared their prompts for those here:
| https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363587351740711
|
| Some of them make no mention of Angry Birds - "Wooden
| box. Large skeleton bone. Item assets sprites. White
| background. In-game sprites" - but others do: "Item
| assets sprites. Wooden planks. White background. In-game
| sprites. Similar to Angry Birds style"
|
| My hunch is that a skilled image prompter could still get
| to results that were right for this particular demo even
| with a model that had not seen Angry Birds assets before.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| Come on... I'm fairly cynical when it comes to AI but someone
| building a pretty complete game from scratch entirely using AI
| to generate the code and assets is a little beyond it 'making a
| cheap copy of something else'.
| raytopia wrote:
| I mean while impressive all the art assets were very clearly
| knockoffs of Angry Bird's art.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Prob needed to a ton of glue code to have it at quality
| mhitza wrote:
| How do I read the Twitter thread if I don't have an account?
| papercrane wrote:
| You should be able to replace twitter.com with nitter.net
|
| https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401
| vuln wrote:
| The same way you deal with pay walled news articles. Sign up,
| check archives/cache, or move on.
| efitz wrote:
| This was amazing work. I consistently underestimate what
| generative AI can do.
|
| Also: I think you just scared the daylights out of a lot of
| mobile game developers and inspired many more.
| Dudester230602 wrote:
| Mobile games are a mix of half-arsed Steam game ports, polished
| ad-budget-driven exploitation machines and trash. I think the
| trash producers will be excited, not scared. The other two
| kinds won't care.
| xwdv wrote:
| Everyone will think this impressive, but they're not game
| developers.
|
| You could literally make all this in probably 24 hours and not
| spend any time mucking around with prompts.
|
| Like what are we even seeing here? Basically a tech demo of a
| physics engine, a little UI interaction for throwing a collidable
| entity into other entities, and some code for setting up a level?
|
| Show me the maintenance, adding new features, bug fixing, cross
| platform compatibility, shaders, networking code, sound, etc.
| Veuxdo wrote:
| And, most importantly, marketing.
| dan-g wrote:
| You could argue then that this reduces the barrier to entry for
| people to become game developers.
|
| Isn't everything you just listed (physics engine, UI, collide
| entities) how you make a simple game? It doesn't matter that it
| doesn't have networking code, shaders, or sound. Those things
| can be added later.
|
| I don't think it's productive to gatekeep who is and isn't a
| game developer. They developed a game, that makes them a game
| developer--it doesn't matter how they got there.
| raytopia wrote:
| I'm not sure how this reduces the barrier to game
| developement. There are already lots of free assets and game
| engines designed for making arcade games that are a lot
| easier then say Unity or Unreal. Like
| https://arcade.makecode.com/ or https://microstudio.dev/ or
| https://scratch.mit.edu/. And if you don't want to make
| arcade games there are other tools like RPG Maker, RenPy,
| GDevelop, and many more each of which are much easier to use
| then this AI pipeline (not to say it isn't impressive you can
| do this with AI though) and will lead to better outcomes of
| actually understanding game development.
| gowld wrote:
| All of those things require me to write code, in an
| annoying, slow, hard to debug click-drag format. I'd rather
| the AI write the code for me based on my natural language
| description of what I want.
| xwdv wrote:
| I think some gatekeeping is warranted. If I stitch a wound it
| doesn't suddenly mean I'm a doctor.
|
| Similarly, using AI to develop a game makes you as much of a
| game developer as someone who hires someone to make a game
| for them. And some development studios are basically that,
| people hiring developers to make games. But AI can't compete
| well with that.
|
| It's like coming up with a new fusion power plant, but it
| takes more energy to run than what it produces. Inspiring,
| but useless.
| gowld wrote:
| Angry Pumpkins did not exist. Now it does. In time for
| Halloween. You can't refute that.
|
| Using a computer to write a letter makes you as much of a
| writer as someone how hites someone to write a letter for
| you. And some writers are basically that, hiring scribes to
| write for them. Computer can't compete well with that.
|
| Except it does.
| gardenhedge wrote:
| Did I miss the link to download the app or something?
| Where does it exist?
| GaggiX wrote:
| https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html (it's
| in the second tweet)
| gardenhedge wrote:
| Oh, I don't have a twitter account so only see the linked
| tweet
| GaggiX wrote:
| I used the nitter link someone linked in the HN comment
| section.
| pphysch wrote:
| Yeah the killer feature here is being able to _generate_
| premium-looking game assets without any art team or funding.
| That 's always been the tough part of creating even simple
| games for solo programmers. The rest is whatever.
| l33t7332273 wrote:
| >ou could literally make all this in probably 24 hours and not
| spend any time mucking around with prompts.
|
| I couldn't make that art in 24 days.
|
| The big thing about the state of current AI isn't that it does
| a bunch of things, it's that it drastically increases the
| number of people who can do things.
|
| That is, I could not make this game in a day before AI. With
| it, maybe I could. I am far from unique.
| gowld wrote:
| And it drastically increases the number of things a person
| can do.
| rchaud wrote:
| > it's that it drastically increases the number of people who
| can do things.
|
| Giving the whole world blogspot.com 20 years ago didn't
| measurably improve the internet, it just added a few more
| winners and a gigantic increase in low-quality spam
| pollution.
| phkahler wrote:
| But have you seen most programmer art? This has really nice
| graphics too.
| xwdv wrote:
| Some people are really good at art, some aren't.
|
| Regardless, I can pull down some off the shelf assets from an
| asset store and make a game with them.
| gowld wrote:
| Where are the off-the-shelf Halloween-theme Angry Birds-
| style sprites?
|
| Where are the ones that look different from the ones 50
| other game makers used?
|
| I don't know, and now I don't need to care.
| GaggiX wrote:
| I doubt the asset store has a pumpkin in the style of Angry
| Birds that looks like Red, it doesn't seem a good
| alternative if he wanted to create this game.
| torginus wrote:
| Which imo summarizes what GPT4 is great at - bootstrapping devs
| who have a general idea of what they want, but are not familiar
| with the exact specifics of the technology, or need to freshen
| up their knowledge.
|
| I've learned Kubernetes and Powershell this exact way.
| gowld wrote:
| Does 24 hours include learning how to use a game engine that
| you've never used before? When you've never used ANY game
| enginer before?
|
| Maintenance and new features are more of the same already done.
| Networking code is a library. Sound is a library. Cross-
| platform is a library. Shaders are a library. AI fixed bugs.
| gardenhedge wrote:
| Agree. No menus or anything
| furyofantares wrote:
| > Everyone will think this impressive, but they're not game
| developers.
|
| I'm a game developer. It's impressive.
|
| I'm extremely aware of how short a game jam demo is compared to
| an actual product. There's an ocean between the two.
|
| That doesn't diminish how much easier and more approachable it
| suddenly is for someone with little experience to make a game
| jam demo, and with kinda-passing art.
| LastTrain wrote:
| This is interesting, but, the "nothing but AI" part is clearly
| not true and so I'm not exactly sure what was done here.
| Kiro wrote:
| What do you mean?
| carnitine wrote:
| You're saying that based on what? All the code and assets are
| AI.
| LastTrain wrote:
| The music?
| omarfarooq wrote:
| There's AI for that too, now.
| LastTrain wrote:
| But it wasn't used to generate the music in this "game"
| that isn't a game. This was my point - that it is unclear
| exactly what AI did and did not do in this case. Like,
| I'm 100% sure my mom could not have done this, so, not
| "all" AI like the title says.
| ziddoap wrote:
| > _" game" that isn't a game._
|
| Why is it not a game? I even played it a bit -- was I
| hallucinating?
| simonw wrote:
| The Angry Pumpkins game doesn't have sound effects or
| music - you can play it here:
| https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html
|
| The Twitter thread shows exactly what the AI made. It was
| used for the JavaScript code and the image assets.
|
| If you don't have a Twitter account you can see the full
| content on Nitter
| https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401
| or in my Gist copy: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52
| daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c...
| jpallen wrote:
| This is very cool! It's not as impressive, but here is a video of
| me writing Game of Life only by speaking out loud to VS Code:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NSplhZ0DlY
|
| I did that by building an open source VS Code extension to
| interact with GPT3.5/4 directly from your editor:
| https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Biggles.....
| It cuts out copy/pasting between ChatGPT and your editor, or
| writing any boiler plate code since you can just ask it to insert
| the code you want, or change the code you have highlighted. You
| can also talk to it directly using the Whisper API!
| invalidusernam3 wrote:
| I did a similar exercise recently when I needed to make a fairly
| basic rest API and CRUD frontend using 2 frameworks I wasn't
| particularly familiar with. I used GPT4 to generate ALL the code
| for it. I'll write a blog post about it soon, but a quick
| overview was:
|
| I suspect it was slower than just writing the code/referencing
| the docs, and would be much slower than someone could do if they
| were experienced with the two frameworks. I had to be very
| specific and write a few long and detailed prompts for the more
| complex parts of a the application. It took around 5 hours to
| make the application, with a lot of that time spent sitting
| waiting for the (sometimes painfully slow) ChatGPT output. In a
| framework I'm more familiar with I think I could have easily got
| it done in under 2 hours
|
| It was definitely useful for making sure I was doing it the
| correct way, kind of like have an expert on call for any
| questions. It was also very useful for generating perfectly
| formatted boilerplate code (some frameworks have CRUD generation
| built in, but this one did not).
|
| It was a fun experiment, and I found it useful as a
| learning/guiding/generation tool, but I won't be using it for
| general day to day development any more than I currently do. For
| most instances it's quicker to just learn the framework well and
| write the code yourself.
| jsight wrote:
| > It was definitely useful for making sure I was doing it the
| correct way, kind of like have an expert on call for any
| questions.
|
| I've found it to be shockingly good at this. I end up asking a
| lot of questions like, "what is the best directory structure
| for a project on {foo} platform?" or "What is the idiomatic way
| to do {x} in {language y}?" It has the advantage of having seen
| lots of projects in every language, and for some questions that
| automatically leads to a good answer.
| Spivak wrote:
| I use Sourcegraph a lot for this when GPT can't get a
| satisfying answer.
| dartos wrote:
| I always get the classic "It really depends on your use case
| and neither pattern is exactly better than the other" when
| asking gpt about programming patterns
| sprobertson wrote:
| Put something in your system prompt along the lines of
| "don't waffle"
| acedTrex wrote:
| this is how exactly how i use gpt4, i find it very useful
| two_in_one wrote:
| Be careful and don't trust all it says. Sometimes it invents
| API functions which are not there, or doesn't see existing.
| And always very confident till you point it.
| burkaman wrote:
| Here's the code: https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-
| pumpkins/sketch.js
| monkpit wrote:
| I realize this comment isn't directly related to the article, but
| it got me thinking... I wonder what effect AI will have on the
| next generation of gaming consoles.
|
| Will they get beefier GPU capabilities to leverage local models?
|
| Will they use cloud capacity to host models and games require
| always-online capability to play as intended?
|
| Some mixture of both?
|
| Also, I hope that AI won't turn into the next way to just ruin
| everything that was already good. A bunch of rehashed unoriginal
| ideas, like "it's Pac-Man, but with AI!" Please, no.
| kevinsync wrote:
| Despite the expected contrarianism in the comments, and I promise
| I'm being positive here, I'm pretty sure GPT-4 did really well on
| this task because a quick Google search shows a bunch of existing
| projects spanning blogs, GitHub and YouTube that it almost
| certainly trained on:
|
| https://www.google.com/search?q=matter.js+angry+birds+clone
|
| This is not a Bad Thing (tm) -- it's actually really sick because
| you can quickly get out of the weeds and get productive,
| especially if your skillset is not as deep as you'd have needed
| to accomplish even half of this a decade ago.
|
| Nobody ever said paint by numbers was capital-P "Painting", but
| sometimes it's a blast to do one. I remember being 12 and making
| custom WADs for Doom / Hexen; my 6th grade son builds endlessly-
| creative and complicated modded Minecraft worlds with detailed
| machinery and electrical circuits and all this crazy seemingly-
| adherent-to-real-world-physics shit. Angry Pumpkins is arguably
| an order of magnitude better than simply re-skinning a
| Cyberdemon, because lowering the "time-to-screen" with any
| project (and in this case, providing a blueprint) is fun,
| creative, and most importantly ENCOURAGING for the next
| generation.
|
| Anyways, I like it!
| hnlmorg wrote:
| That's a really interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing.
| epiccoleman wrote:
| Thanks for writing this. This really mirrors my own
| perspective. Yeah, these tools aren't exactly "learning to
| fish," but if this gets someone _excited_ about "fishing',
| then that's a good thing. A lot of my early coding experiences
| were in a similar vein to what you described, altering
| gamemaker projects and things like that. And even now I have a
| lot of fun playing with this AI stuff. It can help me go from 0
| to 20% on something I previously knew nothing about, and
| sometimes that initial boost is all I need to get over the
| friction and actually do something cool. Or sometimes I realize
| that it's not worth the amount of effort it would take to go to
| the next 80%. That's OK too.
|
| I totally understand the cynicism around this stuff, but for me
| it's like... 99% exciting and cool.
| croes wrote:
| Ok, but many of these AI tools are promoted as Programming bots
| with a capital-P
| kevinsync wrote:
| That's just marketing. McDonalds will sell you what it calls
| a Hamburger with a capital-H, but we could argue endlessly
| about the veracity of that.
|
| In the end it doesn't matter -- some people like it, some
| people hate it, it's good, it's terrible, it's whatever you
| at this moment in your life decide it is for you, but
| regardless of opinions, it's still edible.
|
| I just love what this guy made mostly because he followed
| through and made something, anything, and put it out there
| (presumably for the pure joy of creation).. and it got us all
| talking about it lol
| godelski wrote:
| > That's just marketing. McDonalds will sell you what it
| calls a Hamburger with a capital-H, but we could argue
| endlessly about the veracity of that.
|
| Well they can't sell you a quarter pound of horse meat as
| third of a pound of beef. There are laws about this and I
| believe they do deserve criticism. But that criticism is
| completely orthogonal to how good the "hamburger" tastes
| and the nutritional value of it.
|
| But personally I could never do marketing. I feel like
| their skills lay in getting as close to a lie as possible
| without technically being one. But I also think this is why
| people are not happy with a lot of products, because they
| aren't getting what they were expected. But at the same
| time I think companies are in an arms race that has simply
| been a race to the bottom where we're at or near and no one
| can get an economic edge simply by telling the whole truth
| and nothing but the unquestionable truth. The (near) liars
| have the distinct advantage in a world where it is
| impossible to have objective validators. It's why we have
| reviewers but why reviewers also got metric hacked. Idk
| what the solution here is but I definitely understand why
| people are upset and I wouldn't call this a fruitful
| endeavour where we'll argue endlessly. That's more about
| people having difficulties in expressing why they feel
| frustrated.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| And some people think Synthesia is actually teaching them
| piano.
|
| It might get them into the door. It might give them all they
| are seeking and that's all awesome. They might find that they
| hit a wall and need to go learn how to read sheet music. Or
| they don't.
|
| The thing about "it's not real programming" is that I don't
| think it matters. They might just end up a bit surprised that
| they hit a wall and have to go back and learn more of the
| fundamentals.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| AI is good at that too
|
| I learned just enough about "chord progressions" in order
| to ask ChatGPT to make both the lyrics and chord
| progressions for me
|
| I just input them and humans like it
|
| I wouldn't have initially known the terms to use. Nowadays
| I can prompt for that too though "what concepts do I need
| to understand in this field" "tell me more about number 3"
| and I hope it didn't just make something up but it's good
| enough to converse with humans about - who also make things
| up
| nativeit wrote:
| At best, I expect it will maybe reach parity with (more
| likely fall short of) the kind of accessibility that other
| low-code application development tools and WYSIWYG website
| builders have reached. Specifically, I can see where this
| kind of utility will be too limited for professionals and
| skilled amateurs to bother with, beyond maybe doing some kind
| of "boilerplate+", and yet it will remain out of reach for
| the vast majority of laypeople who will quickly realize that
| programming requires more than just a grasp of syntax and an
| IDE. Square Space and Wix haven't meaningfully impacted the
| professional web design market as near as I can tell, and
| Airtable hasn't cost any SQL engineers their jobs.
|
| Just my gut instinct, though, and I've certainly been wrong
| before.
| godelski wrote:
| Sure, and that deserves more critique than this. But the
| critique there is that you're being marketed a product under
| false pretenses. I'll give you an example to help clarify. In
| another thread[0] the OP is showing off their ML programming
| assistant. The project is unquestionably cool and has every
| right to be on the front page of HN. But there are still
| major questions I have. The implicit critique here comes form
| the fact that the author says "beats GPT 4 at coding" but
| then their basis for this claim is simply via HumanEval
| performance. In reality the evidence does not support the
| claim (it doesn't say the contrary either, it simply is
| indeterminate -- not to be confused with
| orthogonal/irrelevant). This is marketing. I'm not sure if it
| is dishonest marketing, but I would not call it honest
| marketing either. It's in the gray. The thread originally had
| an intro from OP who was specifically requesting comments too
| and so the context is appropriate, other than the nature of
| simply being on HN.
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38091869
| Aeolun wrote:
| Well, most programming is just doing what was done before
| again?
|
| Anecdotally a lot of my coworkers seem to say they did
| something 'with chatgpt'.
| LastTrain wrote:
| I like it too. I also wrote a negative comment, but it was
| about how the title was not completely honest, which is a
| different issue than whether or not this was an impressive feat
| of AI.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| I just like that I don't need to hire designers anymore
|
| I didn't mind designers or their cost, I minded the time and
| the gamble involved with output close to what you imagined, and
| revisions
|
| I also found negotiating rights to be full of hubris and pride
| that caused alot of more friction. Ironclad contracts being too
| heavy handed with that community
|
| I'll take the potential forfeit of copyright in exchange for
| instant output, i can put up a payment portal for royalty free
| works, i can still sell data
| godelski wrote:
| > This is not a Bad Thing (tm)
|
| I wholeheartedly agree. I am often one to critique ML systems,
| especially LLMs and GPT. But this is my training as a
| researcher. I think it is important that we recognize critiques
| and discussions of limitations are not equivalent to calling a
| tool useless or worthless. It does not even devalue the tool.
| Rather the discussions are beneficial for two contexts: we
| learn the limitations to build better tools (since no tool is
| perfect there will always be critiques available) and we learn
| how to use the tool effectively (you're still not going to use
| LLMs to do you differential equations homework despite this
| certainly being within the training set). There's also the
| important context that we are on a tech form in a community
| that is well known to be inhabited by the exact type of people
| that build, test, and deploy these types of systems (myself
| included). These are not the same discussions we'd be having in
| the context of sitting around with my parents who are
| absolutely tech illiterate.
|
| My thoughts as a highly critical person (check my history, or
| even a very recent highly relevant comment in another thread)
| are "this is pretty fucking cool" (same to that very same
| thread btw). I hope to see more stuff like this. It is what
| makes me passionate about ML and it is what keeps me coming to
| HN.
|
| Your work doesn't need to be novel to be useful. Nor does it
| need to be useful to be good. I'm just happy to be seeing
| people do shit and having fun.
| neilv wrote:
| This statistical plagiarism laundering is pretty neat.
|
| IMHO, stopping the laundering gold rush is a more urgent priority
| for law, than creating market moats for the current big pickaxe
| vendors and pretending it's about preventing HAL.
| matsemann wrote:
| I honestly don't think the coding is that impressive. What sells
| it is the assets. It used to be that all quick demos / gamejam
| like games like these (which it honestly is) looked like crap.
| Now it suddenly can look a bit polished. Not just boxes and
| lines, but actually somewhat nice graphics (which is probably too
| close to what it mimics and would end with a angry letter from a
| bird attorney if was used in an actual game, though).
| rideontime wrote:
| Are there any plagiarism detection tools for software? Because
| I'm very curious how closely this code matches one of the many JS
| Angry Bird clone tutorials out there.
| ThalesX wrote:
| This inspired me to try and get a sprite sheet with the top down
| animations for a paladin for a potential RPG game. See me fail
| here: https://imgur.com/a/2uJyUT3
|
| Actual order was top down variants first, and then the last one
| was the side view as I was curious what it'd show.
| la64710 wrote:
| The real challenge is generating a large code base (think more
| than a JavaScript loaded page) - the front end backend and
| everything in between and then automating the testing and
| deployment ...
| simonw wrote:
| Twitter is a bad place to share original content these days,
| because anyone without a Twitter account not only won't be able
| to see anything more than the first tweet but (crucially) won't
| even see a visual indicator that there IS more content to see.
|
| Here's a screenshot to illustrate:
| https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c...
|
| For people without a Twitter account, I've pasted the content of
| the thread into a Gist here:
| https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c...
|
| The most important missing link is the live demo,
| https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html
| lazycouchpotato wrote:
| There's Nitter.net for now, thankfully.
|
| Nitter link:
| https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401
| worldsayshi wrote:
| And also, who knows where Twitter will be in a year. This could
| all disappear in a black whole judging by the somewhat chaotic
| developments.
| demondemidi wrote:
| Does it generate the same result for everyone who enters the
| prompts? (Not an AI guy here)
| simonw wrote:
| No, it won't. There's a big random element to this, especially
| when you are prompting GPT-4 directly through the ChatGPT
| interface.
|
| Image generation models can sometimes produce the exact same
| image if you fix the seed they are using - there are different
| procedures for doing that for different image models.
|
| LLMs like GPT-4 can have their "temperature" dialled down, but
| even at 0 they aren't guaranteed to return exactly the same
| response to a given prompt. I believe this is because they run
| floating point operations in parallel across multiple GPUs and
| floating point arithmetic isn't actually commutative - you can
| get back a slightly different result if the multiplications run
| in a different order.
| product-render wrote:
| Always instructional how eager a lot of people are to not pay
| artists.
|
| I'm guessing the mood will be less celebratory when we can stop
| paying most programmers.
| dools wrote:
| I find it interesting that over the past decade so much
| investment has gone into making no code tools, and now ChatGPT is
| so good at writing code that it's probably faster, more flexible
| and approaching the same level of usability for technically
| minded but non coding type folks.
|
| I recently had to create a demo app to consume and publish a REST
| service using Mendix and it took a couple of days to figure out
| all the details, but doing the same thing in any language (bash
| for example) using ChatGPT would have taken minutes.
|
| Deployment and version control can be solved without much
| technical prowess using PaaS/IaaS, especially if you're comparing
| your costs with enterprise no code platforms.
|
| It may be my personal bias talking (I've always disliked no code
| platforms because they feel more cumbersome when you have to do
| anything serious, I dislike ActiveRecord ORMs for similar
| reasons) but it kind of seems like No Code will be obsolete
| pretty soon.
|
| Who wants to drag and drop when you can just ask, copy and paste?
| elicksaur wrote:
| Would it have taken minutes? Can you try and give us real,
| rather than speculative, feedback? Shouldn't take much time!
| low_tech_punk wrote:
| The super power of GPT is allowing a generalist to become
| specialists in diverse disciplines just-in-time.
| dgs_sgd wrote:
| This is exciting, like we're about to enter a new golden age for
| indie apps and games.
| leshokunin wrote:
| Disclaimer: I was a PM on Angry Birds.
|
| This is such a great demo. The original used Box2D,LUA scripting,
| and of course you had to make enemies and levels.
|
| There's obviously no expectation that you'd make a hit game from
| the tech in its current state. You're bound to be limited by the
| tech, rather than your own skills.
|
| But for rapid ideas, for prototypes, for game jams, this is a
| game changer. I can also see it as a great alternative to Scratch
| for kids to play around with ideas. Hope to see more platforms
| try to turn this into an offering!
| tayo42 wrote:
| idk why it wasnt obvious to me before, i never bothered trying to
| make games because i wasnt good at digital art and didn't really
| have the interest to try to be. i should now... lol
| two_in_one wrote:
| Cool! The coolest here is not the game, it's the fact that AI is
| being used for software development. Actually ChatGPT is used for
| more serious and practical applications. But I started with games
| too. Having fun makes it easier to start. You can think of AI
| (today) as very knowledgeable and not very smart assistant.
| Complex project requires a lot of prompts. Human's task is to put
| it all together, test, ask for new parts and corrections. And
| this is just a beginning...
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