[HN Gopher] Which Writers Will We Remember?
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       Which Writers Will We Remember?
        
       Author : benbreen
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2023-10-29 14:24 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (biblioracle.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (biblioracle.substack.com)
        
       | test77777 wrote:
       | I was just thinking about Micheal Lewis being for tech bros what
       | Joan Didon was for hippies. Most of the time people are
       | remembered for their era and not themselves.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | i think bellow may well be remembered - i've started reading
       | augie march, and it is great so far - somewhat dickensian. but
       | ayn rand and dorothy parker (who did make me laugh a bit)-
       | definitely heading for time's great dustbin.
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | You need to be sure to not confuse "I don't like it" with "No
         | one likes it". _Atlas Shrugged_ is still selling a hell of a
         | lot of copies,  > 65 years after it was published.
        
       | tiahura wrote:
       | L. Ron Hubbard definitely. Mission Earth is without question the
       | greatest dekology of all time.
        
         | light_hue_1 wrote:
         | He did manage to brainwash tens of thousands into an abusive
         | insane alien cult that takes away their families, money, and
         | sanity. So yeah. I guess they'll carry the torch of abuse
         | forward into time.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | > Despite all this evidence, I'm actually not sure that Saul
       | Bellow is a writer who is still going to be talked about 40, 50,
       | 100 years from now
       | 
       | I'm not sure what it means to ask which writers will be
       | remembered. There isn't a monoculture anymore, and the prominence
       | of the literary novel is a lot less than it was in 1973 anyway.
       | So what does it mean to be remembered? What counts as being
       | remembered?
       | 
       | Setting that aside, none of the authors in that article will be
       | remembered by _everyone_ , but everyone he lists will be
       | remembered by a small, passionate, connected community in 100
       | years, I can do everything short of guaranteeing that.
        
       | kriro wrote:
       | Probably just the classics: K&R, Abelson/Sussman, Knuth,
       | Sterling/Shapiro, Geoffrey James, Tanenbaum, Polya, Crockford,
       | Stroustrup, Bentley, Russel/Norvig, Fall/Stevens.
       | 
       | For fiction authors, I feel like I'm not an author kind of
       | person. Tolkien had a big influence on me, same for Poe and Neal
       | Stephenson. I don't really read a lot of the authors that are
       | considered classics/great writers. If someone asked me if I'd
       | rather never have read "The Great Gatsby" or "Silence of the
       | Lamb", I'd readily purge Gatsby from my brain. I suppose the
       | fiction author our generation will remember is xGPT.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | _The Friends of Eddie Coyle_ is a book I 've read twice. I think
       | the clean, tight simplicity of the story might make it live on,
       | like O'Henry stories. But who TF knows?
       | 
       | I have read some Nabokov, but I'd never even heard of
       | _Transparent Things_ , FWIW.
        
       | lazlee wrote:
       | I hate to say it ... Stephen King.
        
         | billfruit wrote:
         | Not that sure. Look at the best selling authors of the 1920s,
         | they aren't widely known anymore.
        
           | hotnfresh wrote:
           | It's possible the film version of The Shining will have
           | better recognition than the name Stephen King, in just a few
           | decades. That's been the fate of a lot of once-ultra-popular
           | early 20th century authors whose works were made into still-
           | well-known films. Might happen to him, too.
        
             | JackFr wrote:
             | Edna Ferber.
             | 
             | The movies Cimarron, Giant and Showboat definitely more
             | well known than her novels on which they were based.
        
           | kaesar14 wrote:
           | Well hasn't he been a best selling author for 4 decades now?
        
           | lazlee wrote:
           | You under estimate the lasting power of a good ghost story.
           | 
           | You need a good example? Edgar Allan Poe.
        
       | chilmers wrote:
       | Every so often I stumble across the Wikipedia page of an author
       | from the 19th or 20th century who was _hugely_ successful in
       | their time, writing many bestselling books, and yet is almost
       | totally forgotten now. They must have justifiably believed they
       | had attained some kind of artistic immortality, yet it turned out
       | not to be so (at least, probably not to the degree they expected
       | -- they do at least merit a Wikipedia entry, which is more than
       | most of us will ever get).
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | I remain astonished that Dickens has endured while Wilkie
         | Collins has faded. The two were contemporaries, but Collins was
         | much more famous and successful (and the inventor of the
         | detective novel!).
         | 
         | Yet hardly anyone reads even The Moonstone any more, while much
         | of Dickens' work is not only read but has become cultural
         | touchstones (Scrooge, Oliver Twist, etc).
        
           | zabzonk wrote:
           | i am not at all astonished, at a uk grammar school in the 60s
           | we were forced to read "the moonstone" for our eng.lit.
           | o-level, at the same time as "great expectations" - guess
           | which we liked more.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | I read very little fiction by living authors. There's an enormous
       | volume, but a good filter is if the author is dead yet their
       | books are still in print.
       | 
       | Sure, I'll miss some good books but it is impossible _not_ to in
       | the sheer torrent of volumes being published every day. But my
       | filter increases the likelihood I'll pick up something I'll be
       | glad to have read.
        
         | disintegore wrote:
         | That's probably the best heuristic for finding quality stories
         | nowadays. The publishers and their readership are stuck in a
         | taste-affirming feedback loop and it seems most of the big
         | literary awards are administered by people who have chosen
         | representation activism as their primary reason for existing.
        
           | retrac wrote:
           | I would suggest reading reviews and literary critiques,
           | written by authors you appreciate and respect. I rarely
           | regret pursuing a book recommendation from someone whose own
           | writing has engrossed me.
        
       | backtoyoujim wrote:
       | I hope that the A.E. Stallings translation of Hesoid's "Work And
       | Days" lasts for centuries.
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36355637-works-and-days
       | 
       | It would show the future some portion of us as English speakers
       | knowledge of ancient Greek and Latin. And since it is in heroic
       | couplets it will offer a window into our pronunciation, syllabic
       | emphasis, and vocabulary.
        
       | magnio wrote:
       | One possibility are writers whose works are hard for GPT to
       | emulate. IMO examples include Jhumpa Lahiri, Christopher
       | Buehlman, and Walter M. Miller Jr.
        
       | 23B1 wrote:
       | I think the better question is: which writers is Amazon killing
       | by favoring popularity over discovery? A thousand rediscovered or
       | newly discovered writers are buried every year by optimization
       | for profit.
       | 
       | If you actually want to broaden your horizons, you'll have to
       | find an indie bookstore, tilt your head to the right, and let
       | chaos take over while you browse.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | It's not like publishing and receiving attention for books was
         | easy before Amazon--most writers would never see publication in
         | any format because the gatekeepers wouldn't let them through.
         | Amazon's filter is different in that it's created a world where
         | everyone can publish but few people get attention for it, but
         | it's not obvious to me that their mechanisms are smothering
         | creativity for profit any more than the large publishing houses
         | did in the 20th century.
        
           | 23B1 wrote:
           | I'm not talking about getting a book published, I'm talking
           | about the joy of discovery, which can lead to success for
           | authors who otherwise don't have the 'right' commercial
           | approach (or the right skin color or background or gender).
           | 
           | And what do I mean by success? Unique and special and
           | important creative people living a sufficiently middle-class
           | lifestyle to continue providing us with their gift(s).
           | 
           | Amazon's filter has created a world where that is nigh on
           | impossible.
           | 
           | I can scan the spines of thousands of books at Powell's or
           | Strand in an hour, with Mother Chaos guiding my hand, and
           | come away with twenty new discoveries.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | > And what do I mean by success? Unique and special and
             | important creative people living a sufficiently middle-
             | class lifestyle to continue providing us with their
             | gift(s).
             | 
             | > Amazon's filter has created a world where that is nigh on
             | impossible.
             | 
             | You haven't really addressed my main point, which is that
             | this kind of outcome was always a rarity--before Amazon the
             | filter was the publishing houses. If you couldn't persuade
             | them you were worth publishing, then you didn't get to
             | share. Period.
             | 
             | Amazon first created a world where literally everyone can
             | publish anything they want. They then had to create filters
             | to help people actually find what they're looking for in
             | that deluge of content. The result might be that it's
             | harder to find new content, but that's not because it's
             | harder to make a living publishing good books.
        
               | spondylosaurus wrote:
               | One counterpoint is that there still are/have been plenty
               | of indie publishing houses who take on books that the Big
               | Five-type publishers won't take, but even then those
               | indie books are printed at a much smaller scale and don't
               | generally make it into big retail bookstores. And so we
               | arrive back at the discoverablity problem :P
        
       | milliams wrote:
       | "No one is finally dead until the ripples they cause in the world
       | die away, until the clock wound up winds down, until the wine she
       | made has finished its ferment, until the crop they planted is
       | harvested. The span of someone's life is only the core of their
       | actual existence."
       | 
       | -- Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man
        
       | blockwriter wrote:
       | These estimates seem weighted toward the reality that books are
       | simply not read, and it is a meta-rationale, like the book's
       | relevance to some theme that is perpetually bandied about in our
       | political discourse, that is a more reliable vehicle for
       | relevance. If books do end up being read again, and if therefore
       | the individual merits predominate our perception, appreciation,
       | and institution of these works, then the list would not be
       | appropriately calibrated. As of now, it might be more right than
       | wrong. It's not sad. It's not not sad. It's just the way it is.
        
         | LanceH wrote:
         | > relevance to some theme that is perpetually bandied about in
         | our political discourse, that is a more reliable vehicle for
         | relevance.
         | 
         | This is why Sir Mix-a-Lot's opus magnum will be played forever.
        
       | jamestimmins wrote:
       | Surprised he doesn't mention that No Country For Old Men won the
       | Oscar for Best Picture, and is generally considered a
       | masterpiece. That alone seems like it would boost Cormac
       | McCarthy's legacy considerably.
        
         | ngetchell wrote:
         | As someone coming of age around the time of that movie, that
         | was my first exposure to his work.
        
       | intalentive wrote:
       | Another factor to consider is political climate and the character
       | of the ruling class. Political and cultural changes can make some
       | authors suddenly unfashionable.
        
       | progne wrote:
       | LLMs could be great tools for measuring the impact of an author
       | on the culture. They have the data to recognize when new concepts
       | and motifs are introduced by a piece of literature and disperse
       | forward in time through the culture. They can somewhat measure
       | the breadth of the influence. You could build an index of the
       | cultural impact of a source from zero to one, and rank them. It's
       | a more direct and general measure of influence than citation
       | count.
       | 
       | It would be interesting to list the sources with the most impact
       | but the least recognition. Does the dark matter of literature
       | have a large pull?
        
       | derbOac wrote:
       | I wrestle a bit with how relevant books will continue to be in
       | the future at all.
       | 
       | I way this not as someone who wants to see the demise of books,
       | but more the opposite. It's difficult to read articles about the
       | financial reality of book sales and distribution and not wonder
       | what the future holds in general.
       | 
       | Sometimes to me it seems as if modern celebrity in certain areas
       | is due to fickle fate and social dynamics, popular attribution
       | and cults of personality and so forth. I'm not saying there isnt
       | real talent in there, but why some attain recognition and others
       | not is often lost on me.
        
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       (page generated 2023-10-29 23:02 UTC)