[HN Gopher] AI can catalogue a forest's inhabitants simply by li...
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       AI can catalogue a forest's inhabitants simply by listening
        
       Author : helsinkiandrew
       Score  : 152 points
       Date   : 2023-10-29 08:56 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
        
       | helsinkiandrew wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/yBaZe
        
       | bloqs wrote:
       | It's headlines like this that really reinforce the idea that the
       | main hinderance with AI is our intellectual ability to utilise it
       | for things
        
         | bigDinosaur wrote:
         | I'm confused. How is this evidence for that? It seems evidence
         | that people are thinking of interesting ways to use it, not the
         | opposite.
        
           | omneity wrote:
           | My reading is: "This is a great use of AI. Others who
           | complained AI doesn't have good applications are lacking
           | imagination."
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | You've seen people complaining that AI in general doesn't
             | have applications?
             | 
             | Even more on pattern matching, where people have been using
             | AIs for applications almost exactly like this one for more
             | than a decade?
        
         | gardenhedge wrote:
         | What? Where is that idea mainstream?
        
         | RetroTechie wrote:
         | AI will do for human brainpower what steam engines &
         | electricity did for physical labour.
         | 
         | That's (probably) a big win for society, but not for everyone
         | or in every application.
         | 
         | So... Your AI Use May Vary (YAIUMV).
        
       | nyankosensei wrote:
       | Here's a link to the referenced article:
       | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41693-w
        
         | jadbox wrote:
         | Thank you kind sir. I feel like HN should be better at linking
         | directly to sources.
        
       | dalbasal wrote:
       | I really wish journalists could cut the crap. If science
       | reporting is this, that's grim
       | 
       | There is plenty of interest in covering ideas, papers and efforts
       | that are speculative, hopeful or early as what they are. Early,
       | occasionally pioneering efforts to achieve something which may
       | lead to success in the future, or enable new efforts to sprout at
       | a tangent.
       | 
       | Interview researchers. Ask them questions. Interview reviewers
       | and peers. They're accessible. Communicate science. As it is.
       | What science is, _is_ worth covering. Do your job.
        
         | Angostura wrote:
         | I'm not clear as to what your actual issue with the article is?
         | It's a very short article, that clearly sets out the potential
         | and alerts the reader to an interesting development. It
         | includes a quote from an author, so they have spoken to him.
        
           | defrost wrote:
           | Have they really spoken to him, or just summarised the paper
           | (perhaps poorly), or clipped quotes from a university press
           | pack?
           | 
           |  _The Economist_ :                   Then it was the
           | computer's turn. The researchers fed their recordings to
           | artificial-intelligence models that had been trained, using
           | sound samples from elsewhere in Ecuador, to identify 75 bird
           | species from their calls.              "We found that the AI
           | tools could identify the sounds as well as the experts," says
           | Dr Muller.
           | 
           | _The source paper_ :
           | 
           | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41693-w
           | In the next step, we applied an independent artificial
           | intelligence model for bird species identification, developed
           | and trained in the region of our study prior to our sampling.
           | Despite the model identifying only ~25% of species detected
           | by the experts in our data, the model-derived first community
           | axis was the single best predictor for expert-derived
           | community composition.
           | 
           | The thrust of his work is about bird population estimates via
           | vocalisation being used as a predictor for insect
           | biodiversity - number and breadth of insects.
           | 
           | There are several recent papers about this work, one that
           | focuses on the bird <-> insect connection, another that looks
           | at the AI utilisation to identify birds.
           | 
           | It appears that as of now the AI isn't as good as identifying
           | birds as experts, only being trained to recogise a quarter of
           | the vocalisations, _however_ that 's enough of a bird sample
           | to get a reasonable estimate on the insects.
           | 
           | I strongly _suspect_ (I lack the smoking gun) that _The
           | Economist_ has just sourced  "quotes" provided in the full
           | university presser (the Press Release pack they send out).
           | 
           | See, the lesser presser about the AI work: https://www.uni-
           | wuerzburg.de/en/news-and-events/news/detail/...
           | 
           | and a presser about some of the insect work: https://www.uni-
           | wuerzburg.de/en/news-and-events/news/detail/...
           | 
           | There are multiple studies and multiple papers stemming from
           | this project:
           | 
           | https://www.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/ecological-
           | statio...
           | 
           | and there'll likely be bigger press packs not directly public
           | web hosted for newspaper journalists to pick from.
        
             | dalbasal wrote:
             | Thank you!
             | 
             | I guess I deserve the downvotes for coming in hot and
             | opinionated.
             | 
             | In my (admittedly lame) defense, mine literally is an off
             | the cuff comment in a place intended for such.
             | 
             | Your comment demonstrates well what I was (failing) to get
             | at.the project is what it as and where it is. Whether or
             | not that's really interesting is for a science journalist
             | to decision.
             | 
             | It can't be interesting enough to write an article about
             | and not interesting enough to investigate curiously.
             | 
             | It's not that hard to investigate. The people are not hard
             | to reach. The good questions are not that hard to
             | establish.
             | 
             | Why can't we have better? I'm genuinely perplexed.
        
           | dalbasal wrote:
           | It's puff, talking about what would be a breakthrough
           | discovery without taking an interest in any more than it
           | takes to generate buzz/content.
           | 
           | How are be supposed to know anything about the space, where
           | it is, how much promise it has, what that promise actually
           | is. There's no meat in this burger.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | The Economist are op-ed writers, not journalists. They don't do
         | interviews and haven't broken a story in their 150 year
         | history.
        
       | tomohelix wrote:
       | A thing stands out to me about the machine learning is their
       | ability to recognize patterns. We all know that human brain is
       | also well adapted to this task. So adapted in fact that it is
       | probably one of the most fundamental, ingrained thing that we
       | have in the lizard part of our brains.
       | 
       | For some reason, to me this kind of subconscious thing hold some
       | special meanings. It feels like the current LLMs are actually
       | going in the right direction to eventually emulate a conscious
       | mind and it shows this by imitating what a mind without
       | consciousness would look like.
       | 
       | Personally, if I have to compare the current LLMs to an organic
       | equivalent, I would say we are at the insect level. It can
       | respond to things, know a few surprisingly complex knowledge
       | (spider webs), but ultimately doesn't "understand" what it is
       | doing and just robotically do what it was programmed to do.
       | 
       | Good thing is an insect to even the dumbest vertebrate is pretty
       | far away in term of mental cognitive ability so AIs aren't going
       | to spontaneously gain awareness anytime soon.
        
         | throwanem wrote:
         | With so faulty an understanding of animal cognition - with not
         | even the knowledge that insects _are_ animals! - I would
         | hesitate in your shoes to attempt any sweeping conclusions
         | about mechanical cognition.
        
           | tomohelix wrote:
           | You are right, initially I was thinking of a chicken. Then I
           | forgot what branch a chicken is supposed to be in and wrote
           | animal instead. Changed to vertebrate now. Probably closer.
           | 
           | And yeah, this is just my personal view. I didn't say it is
           | what it should be or how it actually is. Nothing sweeping
           | about it. Simply how I feel based on my experience.
        
             | throwanem wrote:
             | Your experience ill equips you here, then; along with being
             | overly general, your analysis is, I reiterate, very poorly
             | informed.
             | 
             | Spiders aren't insects, as I would have noted earlier had I
             | been closer to awake when I posted my prior comment.
             | They're arachnids. Arachnids and insects are both
             | arthropods, but are no more closely related than that. It's
             | not a rare confusion among laypeople, but it is also among
             | the first things anyone learns in the study of either
             | class. That you do not know it bodes ill for all that
             | follows.
             | 
             | You mention spiderwebs, which is especially remarkable
             | because they are certainly among the best studied examples
             | of unhuman engineering. Relevant research isn't hard to
             | find, and you will if you feel like it; rather than dig up
             | the same links you can, I'll tell an anecdote that bears
             | them out.
             | 
             | A couple of years back, an orb weaver began building her
             | web on my porch every night, for the moths and flies drawn
             | by the light from the front room. Because she opted to
             | build right across the steps down from the porch, one night
             | I faceplanted the web and broke a few strands extricating
             | myself from it.
             | 
             | The next night and every night after, she built in the same
             | place, but not in the same way; instead of the classic
             | round orb-web shape, she built wide and squat across the
             | top of the space, retaining about the same prey-capture
             | area and staying within the volume that was busy with
             | potential prey, but with the lower edge of the web now
             | about six feet above the porch floor.
             | 
             | That's an interesting figure, because it exceeds by a
             | couple of inches both my height and that of my partner at
             | the time. The spider had no opportunity to size her design
             | to us by eye, as neither he nor I was on the porch while
             | she built this way the first night, and orb weavers'
             | eyesight is far too poor for such a task in any case; by
             | the time we came along to sit on the porch that evening,
             | she had already finished her work.
             | 
             | To build as she did, then, she would of necessity have had
             | to understand and remember the spatial relationships
             | involved in my face getting stuck to her web, and then on
             | the next night implement a novel modification to her design
             | such that we could and did pass beneath without conflict -
             | not just with the web itself, but also with its guy lines,
             | none of which crossed the space below the web despite the
             | newel post finials offering a very obvious and easy pair of
             | anchors. And all this while working with useful visual
             | acuity in the span of perhaps one or two centimeters - to a
             | scale which, in our terms, would be that of about a ten-
             | story building.
             | 
             | This is not the behavior of a creature operating solely on
             | unconsidered instinct. I can't speculate on what goes on
             | inside a spider's head, but that there _is_ something going
             | on in there, I know better than to doubt; even had I been
             | inclined otherwise, the actions of one spider over the span
             | of a couple of evenings would have amply sufficed to
             | disabuse me of the error.
             | 
             | Lest it be said I am ungenerous in my critique, I'll note
             | that, overlooking the taxonomic confusion already
             | discussed, your understanding of insect behavior is roughly
             | on par with that of the naturalist Jean-Henri Fabre, whose
             | writings on spider wasps were much celebrated in their day
             | - which was roughly contemporaneous with the American Civil
             | War. Much has been learned since, most of which Fabre has
             | probably been unable to appreciate owing to his death in
             | 1915. You and I are more fortunate. So if nothing else, it
             | may be worth your while to take advantage of your luck, and
             | pursue your study at least to within shouting distance of
             | the present day before attempting to generalize.
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | I believe people who know about the current state of LLMs
         | and/or human/animal brains have very different opinions than
         | yours
         | 
         | Common sense and metaphors don't really hold up in this context
        
         | uoaei wrote:
         | Consciousness has nothing to do with cognition. Also, if you
         | look at _any_ complex natural system long enough, you will see
         | an expression of learning. In that way humans and AI both are
         | not particularly unique except in the cases of their input
         | formats and the capacity of their internal representations.
         | There is no step change from non-learning to learning system,
         | it 's all a matter of their "computing" power so to speak.
        
       | cushpush wrote:
       | "Hey Alexa, document civilization"
        
         | ukz wrote:
         | "Hey Alexa, survey North Sentinel Island"
        
           | ricardo81 wrote:
           | I think the local inhabitants have not read and agreed to the
           | terms and conditions of big tech :-)
        
       | ImaCake wrote:
       | People might be interested in BirdWeather
       | (https://app.birdweather.com/) which collates data from people's
       | bird listening stations (raspberry pi's with a mic and a modest
       | NN to classify what is heard). Basically, the technology for this
       | has already arrived as consumer tech.
       | 
       | As someone who is a fairly serious volunteer birdwatcher, we
       | could absolutely do with more of this. There are not enough bird
       | surveyors (paid or volunteer) and audio moths hooked up to AI
       | capable of filling in the gaps are badly needed to support
       | conservation and re-wilding efforts.
        
         | omneity wrote:
         | I thought about setting up such a device outside of my window
         | (there's a lot of birds nearby), and the obvious concern of
         | setting up a mic in your house and uploading recordings is
         | privacy.
         | 
         | I found two privacy policies related to Birdweather:
         | 
         | 1. https://www.birdweather.com/privacy
         | 
         | 2. https://birdnet.cornell.edu/privacy-policy/
         | 
         | The first one mentions the following:
         | 
         | > You may choose to keep your audio recordings private, so that
         | other Bird Weather users cannot access or listen to those
         | recordings. This is configured on the Settings page.
         | 
         | Except Birdweather explicitly mentions they're based on
         | Cornell's BirdNET, whose privacy policy (#2) says:
         | 
         | > BirdNET is an artificial neural network that identifies bird
         | species by sound. Our servers process small audio snippets
         | recorded with the BirdNET app to detect and recognize bird
         | sounds. We store all submitted recordings on our servers.
         | Therefore, we advise users not to submit any audio recordings
         | that they might consider private. The collection of audio data
         | helps us to improve BirdNET and we will use those recordings
         | for research purposes only.
         | 
         | Seems like Birdweather would benefit from clarifying how their
         | privacy policy plays together with BirdNET's.
        
           | FeepingCreature wrote:
           | Seems clear to me:
           | 
           | > Third-Party Research: We share the bird detections and
           | audio as well as labeled data with the Cornell University
           | Laboratory of Ornithology, so that they may use such data for
           | scientific research and to help improve the accuracy of the
           | bird sound detection.
           | 
           | You can set the audio recordings to be inaccessible for
           | _other Bird Weather users_. Ie. by default audio is shared on
           | the website, but you can turn that off. _Independently,_ they
           | also share the data with Cornell.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > BirdNET is an artificial neural network that identifies
           | bird species by sound.
           | 
           | A while ago there was an HN thread raving about how Seek by
           | iNaturalist was fun (true!) and did such a good job of
           | identifying whatever it was you were looking at (maybe!) and
           | not overstepping the bounds of what it could know for sure.
           | (See below!)
           | 
           | So I set up an account and I tried it out.
           | 
           | It's pretty clear that Seek places far more weight on giving
           | you a full species-level identification than it does on
           | whether it can be confident that that identification is
           | correct. I guess it's possible that the stand of groundcover
           | I found on the shore of an artificial lake in a public park
           | is a different species from the stand of groundcover with
           | identical coloration and shape about 12 inches away... but I
           | doubt it. Even if they _were_ different species, I 'm pretty
           | sure my low-resolution images of two stands of plants with no
           | flowers or seeds wouldn't be enough for an expert to tell
           | them apart.
           | 
           | In a parallel occurrence, I took a photo of a local beetle
           | that Seek identified as "Strawberry seed beetle", _harpalus
           | rufipes_. I uploaded that to iNaturalist proper (labeled
           | "beetles"; I already didn't trust the identification) and
           | checked out some nearby photos. A very similar-looking beetle
           | had been photographed in my area and identified as _harpalus
           | sinicus_. So I left a comment asking how the tagger could
           | tell that this was _sinicus_ and not some other kind of
           | _harpalus_. And I got a response, saying  "I'm not trained in
           | entomology and I couldn't explain what the difference is. But
           | me and my friend think this is _sinicus_. "
           | 
           | I harbor a sneeking suspicion that the "friend" was Seek.
           | 
           | They advertise that Seek is trained on labels from
           | iNaturalist. But those labels appear to be generated in large
           | part by Seek. Something needs to change.
        
             | whyenot wrote:
             | As a botanist, I have been pretty impressed with Seek's
             | plant IDs. If it is uncertain, it will almost always only
             | ID to genus or family. It doesn't always get IDs right, but
             | it's good.
        
         | itintheory wrote:
         | I've been using BirdNet-Pi for a while and it's great fun. I'm
         | a little confused about the commercial offering from
         | BirdWeather - the PUC looks like a neat product, but I
         | understood most of the BirdNet stuff to be Creative Commons
         | NonCommercial. Maybe there's some nuance about how they're
         | using it, or maybe some pieces have a more lenient open source
         | license?
        
           | sdenton4 wrote:
           | The PUC folks obtained a separate commercial license from the
           | Cornell Lab of O.
        
         | pjot wrote:
         | How does one become a volunteer birdwatcher? Who are you
         | volunteering with?
        
           | ImaCake wrote:
           | I volunteer with Birdlife Australia. If you are in the USA I
           | think it's called the Audubon Society. They will have a
           | number of surveying programs running at any given time.
        
         | whyenot wrote:
         | Thank you for posting this. I'm going to see about setting up
         | one of these for my mom, who is a VERY avid birder (I already
         | have the Pi and outdoor enclosure). It looks like one slightly
         | difficult issue is finding a good weatherproof microphone that
         | works with the Pi.
        
       | secfirstmd wrote:
       | I wonder if we can ever do this with babies to some degree of
       | even limited accuracy. I know there was some efforts on this
       | before.
        
         | totetsu wrote:
         | Ai to identify how many babies are crying in a forest? I think
         | it's possible.
        
         | echelon_musk wrote:
         | The plot of The Simpsons S03E24:
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother,_Can_You_Spare_Two_D...
        
       | underseacables wrote:
       | Could it do this for a city?
        
         | helsinkiandrew wrote:
         | There's automatic shot detection systems:
         | 
         | https://www.soundthinking.com/
         | 
         | https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/four-problems-w...
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | Worth noting that ShotSpotter isn't AI, and also largely
           | relies on humans to listen to and classify sounds that are
           | picked up. Based on what we've seen with other AI systems
           | applied in these contexts we can only assume it would be even
           | worse at its job in maintaining fairness.
        
       | dartos wrote:
       | In a non verifiable way, sure.
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | I wish car engines had mics built in, as well as one close to
       | each suspension.
       | 
       | It would record for the first 5 minutes, then at certain
       | intervals or at certain conditions.
       | 
       | The car would give you FFT images which you could then look at
       | and see how it changes over the years. No need for online-stuff,
       | just an USB port where you stick in a big stick and software for
       | your computer/tablet to evaluate/visualize it.
       | 
       | If you'd then see some problems, you could ask for the audio to
       | be recorded with it, which you could send to a friend who knows
       | about cars or to your car workshop.
        
         | curiousObject wrote:
         | > _The car would give you FFT images which you could then look
         | at and see how it changes_
         | 
         | Good idea, though AI is much better at doing that in 90% of
         | situations. So filter it thru AI first
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | As darling of data science Andrew Ng said, "90% of machine
           | learning is feature engineering". So you should probably run
           | the STFT spectrograms through machine learning models rather
           | than the raw audio signal. And anyway raw audio is over 41k
           | samples per second so quite low information density compared
           | to some simple and quite common transformations like STFT
           | anyway.
        
         | spyder wrote:
         | There are companies working on that using AI:
         | 
         | Acoustic sensors in the car: https://v2minc.com/#solution
         | 
         | Skoda made s sound analyzer mobile app 3 years ago:
         | https://beebom.com/this-ai-app-detects-internal-issues-in-ca...
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Ah damn I need this! My Skoda has squeaky brakes, except they
           | only squeak when you _aren 't_ pressing the brake. Clearly
           | something is rubbing but I can't see what, and it's
           | intermittent and also impossible to Google.
           | 
           | I'm skeptical it would actually work well though.
        
         | dariosalvi78 wrote:
         | At Heading On we had exactly this idea, plus using Canbus, to
         | detect when cars would need maintenance. We ended up rethinking
         | the idea because most of the people we spoke with weren't
         | interested.
        
           | akozak wrote:
           | Yea, the bigger issue is that the maintenance itself is
           | expensive and disruptive.
        
             | snypher wrote:
             | The old adage "you can schedule for maintenance or your
             | equipment will schedule it for you" is true.
        
         | morninglight wrote:
         | The concept you outlined is technically very feasible but
         | economically prohibitive. There are high value situations that
         | incorporate these techniques as standard practice. For example,
         | the diagnosis of rolling mill fault conditions with FFT
         | vibration monitoring has been in practice for at least 50
         | years. Of course when a cold strip mill goes down, the damage
         | can be measured in megabucks.
         | 
         | ..
        
           | KeplerBoy wrote:
           | Nothing about this is economically prohibitive. This is
           | predictive maintenance 101.
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | For consumer level cars, it is not hard to predict or catch
             | something that is actively failing with simple visual
             | inspections, and scheduled maintenance.
             | 
             | You can spend millions designing a fancy acoustic system to
             | measure things indirectly, which will need to be installed
             | at a cost of hundreds per vehicle and the be maintained
             | itself. Or you just have the mechanic give it glance during
             | an oil change (which smart mechanics are already doing free
             | of charge), and pay attention to the dozens of existing
             | sensors that are already reporting the critical stuff.
             | Acoustic sensors won't catch everything so periodic
             | inspection is still needed.
             | 
             | Worth noting that all modern car engines already have
             | acoustic sensing in the form of a knock sensor, so the car
             | companies are well aware of sound/vibration sensing
             | technologies.
             | 
             | In other words I doubt that a fancier acoustic monitoring
             | system would prevent enough maintenance/damage to justify
             | its own cost.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | It'll only make sense if insurance companies can use it to
         | reduce your payout in an accident.
        
         | 7952 wrote:
         | I would love something that could use audio to diagnose
         | problems in bikes. Issues can be hard to replicate on a repair
         | stand when the bike is not under load.
        
         | _flux wrote:
         | I've been thinking the same, but for PCs.
         | 
         | I guess nowadays SMART is pretty good, though, and you can hear
         | if your fans are dying :). Maybe for computers that don't have
         | RPM monitoring and aren't being listened to? It would at least
         | be interesting data to correlate with other metrics.
        
         | is_true wrote:
         | It's a though market to enter, someone I know suggested doing
         | this for a company that had a fleet of 1000+ vehicles and the
         | representative from Bosch told them they wouldn't provide them
         | with diagnostic tools anymore if they did.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | When we designed our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2003
         | I considered using a guitar pickup for that, to pick up
         | vibration and get a measure of how rough the road was.
        
         | michaelteter wrote:
         | Most people don't care about maintenance. They do it only when
         | they must. So I doubt they would pay a penny extra for accurate
         | forecasts of maintenance needs. Insurers and other types of
         | dealers might though!
         | 
         | But wouldn't constantly changing road types and weather
         | conditions create so much variable noise that trending would be
         | sloppy?
        
           | throw__away7391 wrote:
           | True, but people who buy expensive cars care, which is
           | exactly the target for such a system I imagine.
           | 
           | I am not a mechanic but can at least hazard a guess at what's
           | wrong with a car from the way it sounds with reasonable
           | confidence. I imagine a purpose build AI design by the car's
           | manufacturer with multiple microphones in the engine
           | compartment and around the car could gain quite a lot of
           | insight, perhaps even outside of identifying maintenance
           | problems simply to tune the performance of the engine,
           | especially when combined with other sensors.
           | 
           | Having said that, we seem to be near the end of the line for
           | ICE vehicles, so I wouldn't hold my breath for such a system
           | to be developed.
        
         | BoorishBears wrote:
         | I'm surprised after this many replies no one mentioned that
         | cars do have something pretty close to this across virtually
         | every modern ICE: knock sensors.
         | 
         | Knock sensors are just ruggedized piezoelectric microphones
         | that bolt onto your engine: when they detect a knock it's by
         | transmitting the sound a knocking cylinder makes as an
         | electrical signal to the ECU.
        
       | mnky9800n wrote:
       | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41693-w
       | 
       | The actual paper
        
       | kriro wrote:
       | Last time I was sitting in the garden, I was wondering how far we
       | are with actualy understanding the bird chirp and tweets. I felt
       | like there were certain patterns I could hear repeatedly in
       | certain situations (danger approach warning, feeding
       | communication, always the same sound before one bird flew out and
       | collected food kind of like "make us breakfast" :P).
       | Unfortunately some quick searches on Google scholar didn't help
       | much, I feel like I'm lacking the right search terms here. Most
       | ML in this area seems to be related to species classification. If
       | there's any bird experts reading, what is the state of the art of
       | "understadning" bird language? Any paper recommendations? I'm
       | curious about basic things like...is there a universal bird
       | language or does each species use their own language (can a crow
       | understand a sparrow), are there some sounds that are identified
       | with meaning etc. Edit: just checked my bookmarks and "Bird-DB: A
       | database for annotated bird song sequences" was the most
       | interesting find, along with some interesting datasets (NIPS,
       | Cornell Birdcall).
       | 
       | I was envisioning a ML powered device that could translate bird
       | chirps to human readable text but my guess is that we're still in
       | the fundamental research phase. One idea I had was recording
       | stuff in my garden and running it through some unsupervised
       | algorithms to identify some patterns than match it with video and
       | maybe tag context. Would be really neat to find a pattern and see
       | it correspond to the same situation (cat approaching). Seems like
       | a neat summer project but I'm not even sure how to tag and label
       | things :)
       | 
       | A first version that identifies the individual birds and their
       | species would already be cool and I suppose feasible. Bird A
       | (sparrow) speaking...bird B speaking etc. would already be
       | fun...might give them random names, too instead of A,B,C. That
       | would also help with the next stage for tagging etc.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | I believe ML could certainly perform cataloging (clustering).
         | That would be step one to assigning inherent meaning.
        
         | defrex wrote:
         | Aza Raskin's earth species project is working on this. He gave
         | a ted talk about it recently, in which he also recommends a
         | couple books.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/3tUXbbbMhvk?si=6ESL-zuPIHXFULbC
        
         | jonah wrote:
         | I recently saw Nathan Pieplow's talk The Language of Birds. It
         | was a pretty good intro to the kind of things we know about
         | bird communication (a fair amount) and what we don't know (a
         | lot).
         | 
         | https://earbirding.com/blog/talks
         | 
         | Maybe you can find a recording somewhere or further references.
         | 
         | The whole concept of birding by ear is pretty cool. We always
         | have the Merlin bird sound AI app at the ready whenever we're
         | hiking.
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | Thanks for the tip! It does look like there are several
           | recordings on YouTube. I'll have to give this a listen.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/IO04p2qM5Y0?si=WY6MzH2c9QGcOHsf
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | this guy sums it up pretty well:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By_rSYI0Ovs
        
         | jnellis wrote:
         | I use the Merlin app which is pretty accurate at identifying
         | birds by sound. Once it hits on a bird it will give you a list
         | of different calls that bird makes regarding what it might be
         | trying to do (aka mating, predator near) so you can match it
         | further but that part is not automated yet.
        
           | temp0826 wrote:
           | I've been living in southern Mexico in the jungle for the
           | last year or so and this app has been a blast. Whenever we
           | hear something new we all whip our our phones and learn
           | something.
        
       | tomrod wrote:
       | Incompletely. This faces a similar issue to much of the bottoms-
       | up air quality work I've been working on.
       | 
       | Listening means that:
       | 
       | (a) coverage is limited to receptor area, so proximity is
       | required (proximity bias)
       | 
       | (b) the inhabitants have sufficient volume to be heard (frequency
       | bias)
        
         | linsomniac wrote:
         | Not necessarily true for (b): quiet inhabitants may be ratted
         | out by other inhabitants. Birds will literally call out "snake"
         | (in their bird language) or "puma" to alert others.
         | 
         | Stuff You Should Know covered it on an episode "How We're
         | Learning to Talk to Animals":
         | https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-stuff-you-should-know-269...
        
       | hm-nah wrote:
       | It's terrible, but this technology is likely coming to a
       | bar/pub/cafe/store/park/trail near you... diarization, voice
       | recognition... I'm concerned that in the near future, humans can
       | no longer assume that their words are not being captured and
       | potentially used for who-knows-what purposes.
       | 
       | The commons, Alexafied.
        
         | erkt wrote:
         | Time to normalize personal white noise generators.
        
           | renjimen wrote:
           | I think that would just be an arms race that AI would
           | undoubtably win at the expense of our sanity.
        
         | YetAnotherNick wrote:
         | It's not like recording technology is new. It's only because
         | most countries have laws providing that tools like these are
         | not widely used by government. And I don't believe AI is going
         | to change the laws significantly. I don't believe most of the
         | 1984 stuff will happen at least in near future.
        
         | renjimen wrote:
         | Easily solved with more tech! Subaudible recording with mic on
         | throat --> encrypted transmission to peers --> peers' earbuds.
         | Conversation 2.0, or something. Sarcasm, but wouldn't be
         | surprising if it happens eventually
        
         | ThrowAway1922A wrote:
         | Freedom and privacy are rapidly going to become a thing of the
         | past. You won't be able to escape even if you attempt to. The
         | world is becoming a disgusting place and I want none of it
         | anymore.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Statement detected on web platform 'HackerNews':
           | Autocorrelation in progress... Identity found: Subject
           | #ThrowAway1922A
           | 
           | Warning: Potential dissident behavior. Monitoring level
           | upgraded to TIER-3. Recommendation: Dispatch surveillance
           | drones for real-time observation.
        
             | teitoklien wrote:
             | What's more scary is you dont even need the tech of the
             | future to do this.
             | 
             | Just combine together the tech of now with some clever
             | optimisations to keep resource usage low enough to do it at
             | scale.
             | 
             | When you think how they are slowly ripping apart schools
             | systems, corrupting the integrity of our institutions both
             | technical and philosophical.
             | 
             | It really makes you think, if its all in the works
        
               | mikrotikker wrote:
               | Time to make the peasants peasants again, they wanna go
               | back to feudal societies.
        
           | anonymouskimmer wrote:
           | I think it more likely that it becomes something you pay for.
           | Ads only pay so much, and richer people (upper-middle-class
           | and above) can afford to pay more out of pocket than ads
           | targeted to them are worth. Or, at the very least, it's worth
           | enough for third-party non-ad companies such as LifeLock to
           | run interference on other companies privacy invasion tools.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | Fairly certain it's already happening in you cell phones.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | My phone has a hardware kill switch for the mic/camera.
        
         | silenced_trope wrote:
         | There is some future where AI, deepfakes, and what not become
         | so indistinguishable from real people, that those industries
         | (news media, social-media, etc) that make sport out of hearing
         | "wrong speak" and performing shaming rituals will become
         | obsolete.
         | 
         | Same with the security state, if all the data is suspect, does
         | it matter?
        
       | spandextwins wrote:
       | Can you imagine if they took the same money and time and just
       | planted trees? No more global climate change.
        
       | ProllyInfamous wrote:
       | There is an app which [greatly] assists in determining if
       | government-minted coins are in fact solid AUTHENTIC gold bullion
       | -struck. It listens to the resonance after you tap the coin
       | lightly with a lighter.
       | 
       | Something to do with harmonics [I have a fairly good ear for
       | this, myself, but only with well-known currency]. Similar to a
       | digital guitar tuner.
       | 
       | But this simple app really left me awe-struck. Many of the laser
       | testing machines can be fooled in certain gold-plated frauds.
       | Gold's "ting" is unmistakable. It's nice to have a virtual co-
       | agreement when dealing in high-stakes quick transactions.
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | Miniaturize it and make it into a small, waterproof, rugged
       | device that I can take backpacking with me and I'd pay a handsome
       | sum.
       | 
       | (I don't want a cell phone app, my cell phone remains off while
       | hiking)
        
         | lnsru wrote:
         | I made it! The device is small and waterproof, but its battery
         | weights 10 pounds. Continuous FFT processing and other
         | mathematics are power hungry. Is was vibration logger for
         | industrial applications. App would be definitely better for
         | you.
        
           | willcipriano wrote:
           | No cell service where I'm going. Online apps are useless on
           | most of the earths surface.
        
       | samf wrote:
       | I've often thought about how this sort of thing could be used for
       | site security, much like cameras are used. E.g. it could hear a
       | person's footsteps, and hear a person breathing, and it could
       | distinguish between a person and an animal. With multiple
       | microphones, it could determine a location.
       | 
       | I wonder if this is being done already.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | There's a system being used now to attempt to triangulate gun
         | shots, but it's not widely praised as being very successful
        
           | dghlsakjg wrote:
           | From what I understand about shotspotter it is really good at
           | triangulating the location of a sound.
           | 
           | The issues it runs into are all human. It uses humans to
           | determine whether a recorded sound is a gunshot or some other
           | sound. It is deployed selectively in cities, in areas chosen
           | by the police department (very frequently in minority
           | neighborhoods). Conclusions have been used as evidence in
           | court without exposing the underlying data and algorithms
           | used to reach the conclusion.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Log:                  Human footfall.        Branch break.
       | Human footfall.        Branch break.        Weapon cocking,
       | AR-15.        Weapon firing, AR-15. No hit.        Weapon firing,
       | AR-15. No hit.        Weapon firing, AR-15. No hit.        Weapon
       | firing, AR-15. No hit.        Weapon firing, AR-15. No hit.
       | Weapon firing, AR-15. No hit.        ...
        
         | mcpackieh wrote:
         | Makes sense. Is "monitor forest restoration" the new "search
         | and rescue" euphemism for military applications?
         | 
         |  _" We're going to use this robot to find people inside of
         | urban rubble... uhh.... after earthquakes of course.."_
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | I had the exact same idea, after I wondered why my dog seemed
       | unnaturally eager to go out in the yard, even after he'd just
       | been.
       | 
       | It turned out there was a possum in the yard. I know they're
       | quiet, in general, but they do make the occasional sound. I was
       | thinking he must have heard it, which led to... this idea.
       | Naturalists seemed like an obvious client.
        
       | mikrotikker wrote:
       | The dept of conservation in NZ is using a similar thing in remote
       | locations to detect the call of a bird that we haven't seen in a
       | while. It is thought to be extinct, but we thought the takahe was
       | extinct too. From memory it's the one shown at the end of "Hunt
       | for the Wilderpeople". Keep it skux.
        
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