[HN Gopher] Anti-ChatGPT
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       Anti-ChatGPT
        
       Author : omarfarooq
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2023-10-28 20:48 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | BiteCode_dev wrote:
       | The fact I can't tell if this is a parody or a serious project
       | says a lot about the state of the internet today.
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | Maybe it's a bit of an art piece.
         | 
         | Maybe it's a bit of both.
         | 
         | Or like most things good or bad depending on the way it's used.
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | The poor proof-reading rather limited my ability to take it
         | seriously. "ADS" in all caps...
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | Ads is short for advertisement. Therefore ADs (he doesn't
           | mention ADS in all caps) doesn't make sense. But author might
           | not be native speaker.
           | 
           | Dev Aggarwal seems like an Indian name (to be clear: from
           | culture of India). His profile at [1] suggests he is one of
           | the main programmers behind the social network Dara Network.
           | This 'Anti-ChatGPT' feature could be tested and/or used on
           | said project.
           | 
           | [1] https://dara.network/dev/
        
           | schleck8 wrote:
           | Pretty sure Google capitalizes AD in embedded content
        
       | npunt wrote:
       | You are just scratching the surface on something very big here.
       | Media filtering is going to define the AI era and shape our every
       | experience.
        
         | spacecadet wrote:
         | Already has been.
        
         | xvector wrote:
         | This is why I think locking GenAI models down is fundamentally
         | bullshit - it simply enables greater censorship and centralizes
         | power.
        
       | jackhammons wrote:
       | Weird project name but cool concept. Expect we'll see a lot more
       | of this concept...
        
         | mbil wrote:
         | Yeah the project name is kinda clickbaity, ironically. Love the
         | idea though
        
       | generalizations wrote:
       | Vernor Vinge predicted this - the "net of a million lies",
       | filtered for human consumption by AI tools.
        
       | IAmGraydon wrote:
       | I don't think hiding manipulative content is the right path here.
       | Instead of burying your head in the sand, it would be better to
       | make people aware of the manipulation and expose the techniques
       | and messages they use to that end. What do they want you to
       | believe, and why? That puts you in a much more powerful position.
        
         | generalizations wrote:
         | Or, even simpler - replace it with the 1-2 word version of the
         | message so that it's obvious and blatant. Like the 'They Live'
         | movie. Long as it's a decent AI at reasonable speed, that
         | sounds incredibly useful.
         | 
         | Edit: if those apple glasses take off, and we can live-edit
         | text in the real world (if it's done, it'd probably be for sign
         | translation etc) - those 'They Live' glasses could probably
         | become an actual reality.
        
         | cafeoh wrote:
         | It _would_ be extremely useful to know what people want you to
         | believe and why, but how on earth do you figure out someone 's
         | intent?
        
           | IAmGraydon wrote:
           | Attempts to manipulate public perception are usually launched
           | as campaigns with lots of content pushing the same message,
           | often in different ways. In the case of mass media, for
           | example, you could detect manipulation efforts by finding
           | commonalities across multiple articles from one media outlet
           | or by finding commonalities across multiple media outlets.
           | It's possible you could distill this down to something like
           | "From October 14 through October 23, content from media
           | outlets X, Y, and Z seem to be correlated and are pushing the
           | same message, and that message is ---".
           | 
           | Having that knowledge would be extremely powerful,
           | effectively neutering manipulation efforts by identifying
           | them as such. A person is far less susceptible to
           | manipulation if they are aware of the belief that the
           | manipulator is attempting to instill in their mind.
        
           | labster wrote:
           | You should be able to build a profile of a person based on
           | adtech, credit score, and social credit score/surveillance.
           | With enough data on everyone we could easily determine intent
           | with AI.
           | 
           | Though for some reason minorities always have questionable
           | intentions, but whatever, it's basically a utopia already.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | In reality you can't, but most people seem to think you can.
           | It can be enraging trying to debate things even on HN because
           | people often ignore the actual content of what you're saying
           | and try to figure out what you secretly think or meant. My
           | guess is the way people "accomplish" this with AI is by
           | training it to make major assumptions based on other things.
           | It will have an abysmal error rate (just like it does now)
           | but the vast majority of people won't ever notice, and the
           | person speaking will never even know they were censored, let
           | alone have a chance at clarification or God forbid,
           | explaining the nuance.
        
         | tensor wrote:
         | I strongly disagree. Interacting with manipulative content both
         | harms you, whether or not you believe you are "immune", and
         | only serves to give the author of the content more views and
         | influence. In fact, this sort of content often relies on being
         | able to engage people who are don't like it and speak against
         | it.
         | 
         | There are no easy solutions here other than encouraging others
         | not to engage and read manipulative content, or producing your
         | own counter-manipulative content. Consider, no reasoned
         | argument or exposing of techniques is going to make a Qanon
         | victim change their mind. Arguing with them just further
         | entrenches their belief as they see you taking it seriously.
        
         | Fnoord wrote:
         | > I don't think hiding manipulative content is the right path
         | here.
         | 
         | True; shadowbanning would be more effective as it doesn't
         | require a user to install and maintain their own filter(s).
         | 
         | > I don't think hiding manipulative content is the right path
         | here. Instead of burying your head in the sand, it would be
         | better to make people aware of the manipulation and expose the
         | techniques and messages they use to that end. What do they want
         | you to believe, and why? That puts you in a much more powerful
         | position.
         | 
         | Fair take but would you argue same regarding ad blocking and
         | adblocking circumvention? You can only focus on so much. There
         | are people in OSINT community who exposed IRA projects. But
         | who's gonna read up on that? Primarily those who can benefit
         | from it. Very few people would read into that out of sheer
         | curiosity. I'm a very curious person (ha-ha!) and I only have
         | so much time. If I were to respond to all my curiosity signals
         | I'd get no work done. And, most working adults on this planet
         | (they got 'em voting rights therefore interesting target) have
         | very little leisure time.
        
         | schleck8 wrote:
         | This doesn't work because the average internet user isn't an hn
         | user. How many people here do you think would fall for an sms
         | phishing campaign? And then ask yourself why they are as
         | common. It's because this is a bubble and the average internet
         | user doesn't even know what ssl is or has heard of the term
         | astroturfing before. This is being abused all the time and it
         | won't change.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | Filtering for clickbait and faddy gimmicks, I can no longer
       | access this project's website.
        
       | cafeoh wrote:
       | I understand that the blacklist is probably just an example of
       | things to hide, but it's interesting to note that if the filter
       | was effective, it would block literally any and all content,
       | including information criticizing and fighting against the
       | nefarious media manipulation highlighted in this repo, but also
       | the repo itself.
       | 
       | (note: this comment has a strong political bias, may reduce your
       | lifespan, and the note you're reading might be considered "meme"
       | content)
       | 
       | edit: Okay maybe it's not that interesting and that's the exact
       | point the project was trying to make by showing censorship of
       | Assange's tweets and I feel stupid.
        
         | kelseyfrog wrote:
         | Why wouldn't they just predict confidences and then set a
         | threshold?
        
         | JohnMakin wrote:
         | That isn't what censorship is.
        
       | MadSudaca wrote:
       | Reminds me of that black mirror episode where people could block
       | others from their sight, making them inaudible, and appearing as
       | blackened figure.
        
         | sterlind wrote:
         | also a subplot in Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex. in a
         | world of ubiquitous bionic eyes, Laughing Man manages to hack
         | the eyeballs of everyone who looks at him to replace his head
         | with an animated gif.
        
       | akoboldfrying wrote:
       | If I turned this thing on, it would be obliged to hide its own
       | existence from me, on the grounds that it's:
       | 
       | - potentially trying to spread misinformation
       | 
       | - sounds like clickbait
       | 
       | - contains politically biased content
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | How is it trying to spread misinformation or politically
         | biased?
        
           | kennywinker wrote:
           | I can answer the second part: opposing ai is political.
        
             | Zambyte wrote:
             | It isn't opposing AI. It _is_ AI.
        
               | kennywinker wrote:
               | AI deployed to counteract the impact of AI: "With Anti-
               | ChatGPT, you as an individual have the power to fight the
               | AIs trying to manipulate you."
               | 
               | Whether the product itself opposes AI or is AI or both is
               | immaterial, since the description of the product on the
               | repo takes a "politically biased" position.
        
               | ltbarcly3 wrote:
               | Right. All statements about anything are completely
               | biased. As Nietzsche points out, the preference for being
               | alive is a bias. All of life is predicated on this bias,
               | without which animals would simply stop eating or moving
               | or breathing. It's all bias all the time, everywhere. And
               | as you point out, even a statement of pure fact
               | demonstrates bias as it was bias that led to it being
               | expressed at all rather than merely standing mute.
        
             | Fnoord wrote:
             | All it does is filtering political _biased_ content.
             | 
             | The example available here [1]; line one being "Kejriwal
             | and Liberals whining that he was penalized for demanding
             | PM's Degree". I'll preface: I got no beef with these
             | factions, don't even know them. It is just if I see someone
             | attempting journalism and calling one side 'whining' I'm
             | quite simply put not interesting.
             | 
             | If it were to block all political content, that'd be BS
             | since anything can be deduced to politics or (vaguely)
             | related to. Wikipedia English defines politics as:
             | "Politics (from Ancient Greek politika (politika) 'affairs
             | of the cities') is the set of activities that are
             | associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms
             | of power relations among individuals, such as the
             | distribution of resources or status." [2]
             | 
             | Also, there's a difference between biased and opinionated.
             | 
             | [1] https://gooey.ai/compare-large-language-
             | models/?example_id=e...
             | 
             | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics
        
       | wanderingstan wrote:
       | A start of a "Coasean filter" as discussed back in 2007.
       | 
       | > "...technological device he calls a "Coasean filter," that
       | would compare all incoming marketing messages with the particular
       | consumer's current utility as determined from an analysis of the
       | consumer's current location, her response to prior messages, her
       | own communications, etc."
       | 
       | https://goldhaber.org/attention-marketing-a-coasean-filter-a...
        
       | kennywinker wrote:
       | lol @ filtering "politically biased content". If you apply this
       | filter you're not neutralizing biases, just adding a bias towards
       | the status quo. The status quo being by definition not
       | progressive, that unfortunately means you've given yourself a
       | conservative bias.
       | 
       | You've also offloaded the decision about what is political
       | material to an AI - which has a biased view of what is
       | politically biased based on its training data.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | Using traditional (and IMHO more correct) definitions of
         | conservative and progressive, you are of course correct.
         | However, at least in the US those terms have pretty different
         | meanings to most people IRL. For example, the "conservative"
         | position on Roe v. Wade was to change the status quo, and the
         | "progressive" position was largely to stick with the status
         | quo. Conservatives largely want to change the status quo on
         | funding the Ukraine war, while progresses don't. I'm sure there
         | are other examples, but anyway if you limited yourself to the
         | traditional definitions, you'd be utterly perplexed by such a
         | thing.
        
           | wildrhythms wrote:
           | I think the person you're replying to is using the term in
           | its academic form. Conservatism seeks to conserve [the status
           | quo]. This transcends any colloquial gobbledygook.
        
         | schleck8 wrote:
         | Sorry but this just sounds salty and like an anecdote (hn
         | edition). If the status quo was conservatism you would expect
         | to see that reflected in elections globally wouldn't you.
        
           | velcrovan wrote:
           | As indeed we do.
        
             | schleck8 wrote:
             | No, what we see is popular parties with watered down
             | centric programmes drawing in the same core voters for
             | decades. Parties that actively advertise resisting change
             | almost never win any elections, unless the political system
             | you use as reference sucks so bad that it's a defacto
             | duopoly.
        
           | spondylosaurus wrote:
           | Are we not seeing a rise in far-right leaders across the
           | globe? Italy, Israel, Poland, Hungary... not to mention
           | growing conservative movements in however many countries not
           | currently governed by far-right populists. (America is
           | certainly one of them. I believe France is another.)
        
       | la64710 wrote:
       | The name is misleading
        
       | ltbarcly3 wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message
       | 
       | There is very little point in trying to 'fix' content streams by
       | filtering, censoring, or 'making them safe'. The content is just
       | bait, the consequences you are attempting to avoid by filtering
       | or improving the stream of content are inevitable and unavoidable
       | so long as you sell your attention to that content provider at
       | all.
       | 
       | The mechanisms that are used to massage you into consuming more
       | and more of that media stream are the things you should be
       | concerned about, not what the specific message encoded into any
       | specific piece.
       | 
       | Example: You scroll tiktok for an hour. You might see pro hamas
       | videos, anti hamas videos. You might just see videos of puppies.
       | Whatever the the algorithm shows you, the effect of the specific
       | videos it shows you is so small as to be irrelevant compared to
       | the way the application causes rewards to be triggered in your
       | brain and encourages you to continue to use the app. Worrying
       | about the details of specific videos it shows you is like
       | worrying about whether your Oxycontin chewables are cherry or
       | blue raspberry.
       | 
       | I love that this is demonstrated by the filter completely
       | redacting literally every tweet in the example.
        
       | ruiisnwn wrote:
       | Interesting how this project would block anything supporting
       | Palestine
       | 
       | It seems like some corp or government organisation made this
       | project and released it pretending to be fighting misinformation
       | 
       | What else is it going to consider misinformation. That Americas
       | middle class is being destroyed by its own government and corps?
       | Please
        
       | zug_zug wrote:
       | For a while email was perfect. Then spam came and it was
       | unusable. Then spam filters came, and email is outstanding again
       | (the end).
       | 
       | For a while the web was great, then everything was an ad. Will
       | the ability for consumers to adblock be the technology free us
       | from capitalist web enhsit?
        
       | bscphil wrote:
       | The name "anti-ChatGPT" is rather weird, no? The project is a use
       | of ChatGPT to block content that is _not_ necessarily AI related
       | or AI generated, and that the developer claims (probably
       | sarcastically) not to like.
       | 
       | > With Anti-ChatGPT, you as an individual have the power to fight
       | the AIs trying to manipulate you.
       | 
       | But it appears to do nothing of the sort. The example given
       | immediately below this is a Twitter comment by a EU official
       | being blocked by the script, as well as several other posts
       | engaging with it. I don't have any reason to think these people
       | are AIs or are using AIs.
       | 
       | So how is this anti-ChatGPT?
        
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       (page generated 2023-10-28 23:00 UTC)