[HN Gopher] A third of chocolate products are high in heavy metals
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A third of chocolate products are high in heavy metals
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 251 points
       Date   : 2023-10-27 13:57 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.consumerreports.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.consumerreports.org)
        
       | BaculumMeumEst wrote:
       | like the article says, the takeaway isn't to panic, but just to
       | consider dark chocolate a food you don't overindulge in.
       | obviously you want to avoid contaminants, but some degree of
       | exposure is part of life, and it's the dose that makes the
       | poison.
        
         | davzie wrote:
         | I know I'm spending too long on HN when I start panicking about
         | every day normal things to consume or do incase it poisons me,
         | causes cancer, gives me alzheimer's or something else that
         | makes top page posts. The health-nut side of HN is what lets it
         | down and makes it a depressing place to hang out in.
        
           | Pigalowda wrote:
           | Just eat a balanced diet and exercise. Don't smoke, drink, or
           | do drugs (if you do then do them sparingly). Everything else
           | won't move the needle and should be mostly ignored - someone
           | is selling you something or gaining a click.
           | 
           | Luckily for the American health care industry people ignore
           | that advice and do their very level best to oppose it at
           | every turn.
        
             | davzie wrote:
             | Well a big green tick for me on all those points. Thanks
             | for being a voice of reason!
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | > Just eat a balanced diet and exercise.
             | 
             | I've never seen a particularly good definition for
             | "balanced diet", and many communities that are super
             | healthy have diets that don't look balanced at all.
        
           | BaculumMeumEst wrote:
           | the problem is these submissions are incentivized to scare
           | the shit out of you, but not to be honest about "how worried
           | you should be about it". this heavily applies to MSM stories
           | as well.
           | 
           | once i understood that, i got more aggressive about hiding
           | this kind of content, or taking it with a huge grain of salt.
        
         | Blackthorn wrote:
         | There is no safe level of lead exposure, though.
        
           | jksflkjl3jk3 wrote:
           | How are you defining a "safe level"?
           | 
           | Everyone in the world has been exposed to some amount of lead
           | and most live out relatively long and healthy lives.
        
             | rgrieselhuber wrote:
             | Comments like these are always so annoying to be honest.
             | 
             | It takes the responsibility off the food manufacturers to
             | do really simple things like, let's not put toxic chemicals
             | in food, and instead writes the whole thing down with
             | flimsy statements like "well you're already poisoned to
             | some degree, should be fine though."
        
               | smegger001 wrote:
               | But its not entirely wrong there is some natural
               | background level of expected exposure for things like
               | lead, arsenic, mercury, etc as they are naturally
               | occurring part of our environment. wanting to know what
               | the floor is when talking about exposure to these toxins
               | helps you understand the scale of exposure.
        
               | rgrieselhuber wrote:
               | In what environment should we be expected to naturally
               | encounter lead, arsenic, and mercury?
        
               | jksflkjl3jk3 wrote:
               | Just about anywhere in the world that's not a sterilized
               | room.
        
               | rgrieselhuber wrote:
               | I still think it's a disingenuous argument because we're
               | talking about elevated levels in food production.
        
               | smegger001 wrote:
               | Not really for example there a naturally occuring high
               | levels of arsenic in the ground water and soil near near
               | cooks inlet Alaska, there's lead in Idaho, and cinnabar
               | (a naturally occuring mercury contain mineral) in
               | California, uranium in Arizona Colorado New Mexico and
               | Wyoming.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | It's not disingenuous when people are talking about
               | treating _any_ level like an elevated level.
        
               | Herodotus38 wrote:
               | Arsenic levels in soil can naturally vary depending on
               | minerals under the soil. So you can get more if say you
               | are eating a root vegetable that you need to wash the
               | dirt off vs less from an above ground vegetable.
               | 
               | Unfortunately I have learned a lot about this bc our
               | region has unnaturally elevated levels of lead and
               | arsenic die to pesticide use in the past. But can also
               | just be bad luck and natural.
               | 
               | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK231016/#:~:text=The
               | %20....
        
               | jandrewrogers wrote:
               | Arsenic is naturally found in most water to varying
               | degrees. It is an essential but poorly understood
               | micronutrient. Its toxicity is similar to selenium,
               | another essential micronutrient, so it isn't unique in
               | terms of the dose response. Some plants concentrate it
               | but that usually isn't bioavailable.
               | 
               | Background lead levels are sometimes high naturally but
               | those geographies are relatively rare. Lead is usually
               | industrial pollution.
               | 
               | Mercury chemistry in nature tends to have very poor
               | bioavailability. Dietary mercury is almost exclusively
               | industrial pollution where mercury is integrated into
               | molecules that are much more bioavailable.
        
               | jksflkjl3jk3 wrote:
               | My point is that your requirement can't be absolutely
               | zero lead. If you have sensitive enough equipment, you're
               | always going to detect some amount of common
               | contaminants.
               | 
               | > let's not put toxic chemicals in food
               | 
               | You make it sound like adding lead is an intentional act.
               | Surely if it required no effort, food manufacturers would
               | remove all of the lead. I don't know how much effort is
               | required, but reports like this and testing by regulators
               | is likely required to encourage them to put in more
               | effort to get the lead down to a reasonable level.
        
               | rgrieselhuber wrote:
               | Sounds like a regulatory problem.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | This absolutist stance made sense when our equipment wasn't
           | sensitive enough to detect low levels reliably. A lot of
           | reports would literally say "not detected" and it would be
           | interpreted as "not present"
           | 
           | Modern equipment and techniques can reliably detect very low
           | levels of lead. Nearly every chocolate product will contain
           | some tiny level of lead.
           | 
           | There are 469 entries on this database:
           | https://www.asyousow.org/environmental-health/toxic-
           | enforcem...
           | 
           | Only a handful of them were so low that it's listed as not
           | detected. I'm sure if they were motivated, they could have
           | used more sensitive equipment to quantify the actual level of
           | lead in those products too.
           | 
           | That's why it's no longer useful to insist that there is no
           | safe level of lead, because you're going to be consuming tiny
           | amounts of lead in anything you eat or drink. Past a small
           | enough threshold the effects really are negligible.
        
             | Obscurity4340 wrote:
             | This issue I sense with respect to whether there are truly
             | any safe exposure amounts is that the moment you say
             | anything greater than zero, you give wiggle room for
             | companies (hell, even governments and regulatory bodies in
             | general) to fuck around and pretend their negligence in
             | allowing an-after-the-fact higher amount product was due to
             | some arbitrary reason that ignores the fact that there
             | really shouldn't be _any_ of the thing at all for practical
             | purposes and that, consequently, this thing really _can 't
             | exist_ or be allowed to continue being marketed. Folks
             | interested in the language that this evokes have zero issue
             | doing this with drugs, why so serious (in terms of
             | incompetency) with respect to this?
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | > This issue I sense with respect to whether there are
               | truly any safe exposure amounts is that the moment you
               | say anything greater than zero,
               | 
               | If you set all of the limits at zero, we wouldn't be
               | eating anything.
               | 
               | You wouldn't even be eating vegetables from your own
               | garden.
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | The point I'm trying to make is when you have any
               | tolerance at all for hard no things like lead, it only
               | extends the Overton window of regulation so far, to the
               | point where you're allowing for a defense when it needs
               | to be an absolute liabillity. Lead intoxication (both
               | acutely and chronic) is an absolutely castastrophic
               | public health problem. It has to be absolutley
               | unacceptable and legally made to essentially be
               | indefensible where it can be objectively proven a chain
               | of events flows from commercial activity of defendant
               | company to the inclusion (or failure to remove it from)
               | the product and seperately for any harm that results to
               | customers.
               | 
               | If no company can legit handle the liabillity aspect then
               | it needs to be like nuclear weapons and "handled by the
               | government" even though that opens its own range of
               | potential issues. That is the least-worst arbiter and
               | threat actor who handle's other such things.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Paying for damages sounds like that's also allowing
               | nonzero amounts.
               | 
               | And I don't know what you mean by the government handling
               | it. Surely you don't mean the government handles all food
               | production, but I can't figure out how else to interpret
               | that.
               | 
               | Lying about tolerances in service of an overton fight is
               | not something that sounds very good to me.
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | > lying about tolerances
               | 
               | Wat?
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | You're saying we can't tolerate nonzero amounts.
               | 
               | As pointed out, _actually_ doing that would mean no food.
               | 
               | Since you brought up the overton window, it sounds like
               | you want to _claim_ we don 't tolerate any at all, while
               | _actually_ tolerating it so people can eat. That would be
               | lying.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | Its kind of ironic that dark chocolate is more a rich person's
         | thing on a practical level and that the shittier the chocolate
         | (in the sense of real chocolate content which is heavily used
         | as a proxy for quality), the safer it might be
        
           | lo_zamoyski wrote:
           | Not the first time. White bread was originally a rich
           | person's food compared to whole grain. It cost more to
           | produce white flour. Now we promote whole grain and charge
           | more for it.
        
             | Obscurity4340 wrote:
             | Lol, I feel that way about anything "white" in terms of
             | breads and such except like if its with italian food
        
       | SllX wrote:
       | Unfortunately (or fortunately? But I'm guessing this affects them
       | to given the description of how this happens) I don't see any
       | brands I actually eat on this list, save for Lindt, but we're
       | talking one of those chocoballs two or three times a year.
        
       | e40 wrote:
       | Note there is a good site for checking your chocolate:
       | 
       | https://www.asyousow.org/environmental-health/toxic-enforcem...
       | 
       | It's nice that Consumer Reports made OP free for non-subscribers.
        
         | SllX wrote:
         | Thanks! The results were what I expected and depressing, but at
         | least now I know.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | What were you expecting?
           | 
           | I personally can't see any kind of pattern anywhere at all,
           | except dark chocolate is (logically) higher.
           | 
           | Also, one-time testing isn't going to reveal much. Since
           | different manufacturers are constantly getting different
           | batches of beans from different farms, wouldn't the heavy
           | metal content in any chocolate bar be essentially random?
           | E.g. Cadbury's might be low in April, high in May, and then
           | medium in June.
        
             | Obscurity4340 wrote:
             | Makes you wonder if there's any way to "synthesize"
             | whatever it is that makes cacao _make cacao_ or something
             | to the effect of the way various opioids and flavors are
             | already synthesized en masse, although obviously in the
             | opioid case we 're probably not gonna get around having to
             | _grow_ poppies forever.
        
               | kleton wrote:
               | Okra is vaguely related to cacao, and you can process the
               | seeds to some sort of ersatz substance with similar
               | flavor compounds, but it lacks the saturated fats with a
               | melting point similar to human body temperature that
               | makes chocolate interesting.
        
               | soperj wrote:
               | So just add bacon fat?
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | > Shhhhhhh!
               | 
               | -- Nestle/BigNesqwik
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | High quality chocolate has a ton of different flavours in
               | it. It's extremely complex. Just like coffee, tea, wine,
               | beer, vanilla, spirits, cheese, mushrooms (and so on;
               | basically any luxury food). We can't synthesize what
               | makes these things taste good because it isn't just one
               | compound, it's thousands.
               | 
               | Even something very basic you can make at home, such as
               | caramel, can't be synthesized. From a very simple
               | precursor (white sugar aka sucrose) you apply heat and
               | the result is thousands of complex molecules. This is why
               | caramel tastes good (like an actual food) but plain white
               | sugar tastes pretty bad (because it's just an
               | ingredient).
        
             | pbhjpbhj wrote:
             | Don't you fix these things by using the market, fine
             | Cadbury an extra 5% pa of gross revenue if any bars are
             | found with > N ug of any particular heavy metal. Tax all
             | companies an extra X% if their products are in the bottom
             | quintile for 2 consecutive years. Maybe don't fine them if
             | they can show a person who eats their products at the 99%
             | level, for a lifetime, would be below the level of toxicity
             | -- the CEO can eat that much of the metal to demonstrate
             | they're convinced that the toxicity figures are correct!
             | 
             | In theory the chocolate producers will get a lower price
             | unless they do what they can to reduce heavy metals.
             | 
             | Of course the farmers get screwed in places where others
             | have shipped their heavy-metal lawn waste ...
        
             | SllX wrote:
             | Some level of uniformity that the issue is about as
             | universal as it sounds across brands based off the
             | description in the article. It is, and that kind of sucks.
             | 
             | I mentioned this to a friend earlier and he said something
             | along the lines of "yeah I thought this was pretty well
             | known" so... I didn't get the memo anyway and I am a
             | somewhat frequent consumer of very dark chocolate.
        
         | civilitty wrote:
         | A bunch of organic chocolate products from Newmans Own, Trader
         | Joes, and Whole Foods' brand are the worst offenders.
         | 
         | Well shit, am I supposed to make brownies using just cannabis?
         | The alternatives are all crap Hersheys/Mars chocolates
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | Does cannabis concentrate heavy metals itself?
           | 
           | I can't endorsed this source, but there are plenty of others
           | https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-12-cannabis-heavy-
           | metals...
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | The hemp seeds, like most seeds, also concentrate lead and
             | cadmium.
             | 
             | The other parts of the plant have only low concentrations
             | of metals. Nevertheless, when any plant part is burnt, the
             | ashes concentrate all the metals from that plant part.
        
           | aksss wrote:
           | Yeah it seemed that going out of way to source from most
           | artisanal producer in exotic locations may correlate with
           | higher levels? Not strictly true but seemed like a
           | correlative trend in my quick pass through results.
           | 
           | Maybe the guy growing cacao in the roadside ditch in the
           | valley watershed needs some of that fair trade money, but
           | soil quality may not be highest concern.
        
           | waveBidder wrote:
           | Those ... are all corporate knock-offs of co-ops. what did
           | you expect?
        
             | civilitty wrote:
             | Better quality control?
        
             | sarchertech wrote:
             | Newmans Own isn't a corporate knock off of a co-op. It's
             | corporation started by Paul Newman that donates all of its
             | profits to charity.
        
         | flanbiscuit wrote:
         | I like to buy from local independent chocolatiers and now I'll
         | have to think twice about that. I can call them and ask them if
         | they test their chocolate sources for heavy metal but somehow I
         | doubt many are doing that.
        
           | chris_va wrote:
           | (from experience)
           | 
           | Most local chocolatiers (e.g. truffle makers, etc) use bulk
           | chocolate already produced from companies like Valrhona, so
           | it may have the same issues.
           | 
           | Most local chocolate makers use distributors to source their
           | cacao beans, and those distributors test the batches. The
           | regions with high Cd/Pb levels tend to be regions that those
           | distributors avoid.
           | 
           | You should always ask, though.
        
           | hgomersall wrote:
           | I wrote to our favoured UK brand (Willie's Cacao) and got a
           | strong statement about their testing regime and the reliably
           | good results. I guess I have to trust what they say but it's
           | good to have some reassurance.
        
         | thomastjeffery wrote:
         | Nearly all of these tests were done in 2014. I wonder how
         | different the results would be today. Probably not much,
         | unfortunately.
        
           | stefan_ wrote:
           | In fact I would expect them to be very different, to the
           | point of just being random. Tons of brands on that list that
           | will pick their supply by price, and it will probably even
           | differ by what batch they get.
        
       | okokwhatever wrote:
       | Goal 2030: be the healthiest in the cemetery
        
         | omginternets wrote:
         | There's a joke I like a lot (fair warning: it is a stupid one).
         | 
         | An elderly husband and wife die in their sleep on the same
         | night. They both appear before the pearly gates, where St. John
         | takes them on a tour of the heavens, ending with the banquet
         | hall. The table is overflowing with all sorts of delicious
         | foods--sweets, beautiful cuts of meat, cakes, cocktails, etc.
         | This puts the husband in a foul mood, which further degrades
         | into full-on sulking when he sees the liquor cabinet and the
         | humidor. Eventually, his wife says to him "okay, dear, out with
         | it. What did I do wrong _this_ time?"
         | 
         | The husband glares back at her and mutters under his breath,
         | "you and your damn bran-muffins... we could have been here
         | years ago."
        
       | AdamN wrote:
       | Meta point here but Consumer Reports is doing really solid work
       | for the consumer and is a nonprofit that needs donations - please
       | consider subscribing/supporting.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | I really hate that Facebook has turned this sentence into
         | something that used to have nothing to do with them that you
         | did not intend and that is absent from your sentence in spirit
         | but for the letter- like connotation they have legally
         | purchased forever now.
        
         | trgn wrote:
         | whoa! Consumer Reports is a non-profit. TIL.
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | > Kids and pregnant people should consume dark chocolate
       | sparingly
       | 
       | I've never met kids that like dark chocolate. Pregnant "people"
       | (IME they're usually women) famously have appetites for all kinds
       | of interesting foods.
        
         | BaculumMeumEst wrote:
         | you can just say pregnant women
        
           | jcutrell wrote:
           | I don't think HN is the place for arguing gender politics.
           | Pregnant people is as or more accurate than pregnant women.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | It may well not be the place, but the GP isn't the one who
             | opened that door.
        
             | GamerUncle wrote:
             | There is simply no place to discuss whether there is
             | anything beside pregnant women, giving the space to this
             | antiscientifical vocab in science is not a matter of
             | discussion don't let the loonies run the asylum simple as
        
         | jnwatson wrote:
         | I know lots of kids that like dark chocolate. In the States
         | where the standard is Hershey's milk chocolate, it is easy to
         | like anything else.
        
           | zwieback wrote:
           | I moved to the US from Germany 30 years ago and over the
           | years I've grown to love Hershey's milk chocolate, maybe a
           | bit too weird for coddled Europeans!
        
         | enqk wrote:
         | my 4yo mainly eat dark chocolate
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | I now consider myself better-informed!
        
       | prmoustache wrote:
       | That's what we get when we pretend recycling stuff while all we
       | do is sending the bad stuff to the very same countries that are
       | tasked to grow our food.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | Serious question: say burning garbage had no detrimental
         | impact, it would be the best solution right?
         | 
         | We know that's not the case (don't we?) so how do we move
         | through that particular "solution-tree" to get to the right
         | practical solution/implementation?
         | 
         | Not sure if what I'm saying is cogent but I feel like there's
         | an ideological game of hide and seek _not_ being played or
         | someone is  "it" and simply leaving the rest of the players to
         | hide but they lobbied against a rule that allowed for unoffical
         | games of hide and seek and insisted they are only ever "it" and
         | the rest of the players can't gather and create their own non-
         | sanctioned game that disincludes the current player and that
         | the current instance can never actually end to allow for a new
         | game.
        
           | kleton wrote:
           | Japan incinerates essentially all of their trash, and it's
           | not a polluted hellscape.
        
             | Obscurity4340 wrote:
             | So why aren't we doing that? Like what's the rub? And it
             | better not be BigRecycling or imma lose my mind right now
             | (you know what I mean) :/
        
               | kleton wrote:
               | Long ago, they tried burning trash in other countries and
               | it was just basically an open burn pit, so incineration
               | is a political no-go. Even though now it's possible to
               | attain essentially complete oxidation and no nox/sox/ash
               | in flue gas.
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | You're telling me that a/the solution is to do exactly
               | what all the "burn baby burn" people are sort of saying
               | in some sense?
        
               | orangepurple wrote:
               | The solution is to burn everything and aggressively scrub
               | the exhaust
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | Dingdingding! So how do we make it happen? Is there
               | anyone with "eco"-credibillity who is saying exactly
               | this?
        
             | wahnfrieden wrote:
             | >Nevertheless, every incinerator produces excess GHG
             | emissions and therefore every state's GHG emissions
             | intensity is higher than it would be without incinerators.
             | These results are consistent with those of Tabata [83], who
             | analyzed 727 power-producing incinerators in Japan and
             | found that only five did not produce excess fossil CO2
             | emissions.
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | Ya but do they quantify the corresponding emissions
               | created in the aggregate by our alternative efforts to
               | deal with waste disposal and if that is the case, is it
               | still clear that "our" way is superior to "Japan"'s way
               | with respect to:
               | 
               | 1) GHG emissions 2) palpable and visible environmental
               | pollution/damage 3) cost 4) reliabillity
               | (labour/cost/lack of long-term potentiation of any
               | existing or novel variable that is reasonably foreseeable
               | based on existing knowledge as informed by current data
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | Like, by you saying what you're saying and if Japan
               | indeed operates in their way, than there's a contradition
               | to the effect that Japan's really being hurt more than
               | helped by it and its one of those "dolphin" areas for
               | them
        
               | rafaelmn wrote:
               | We're still burning coal and gas for power - burning
               | thrash is win/win in that regard. Problem with
               | incinerators is nobody wants one in their backyard,
               | despite safety claims.
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | Is that like legit the rub that I'm talking about? Imma
               | be so fucking pissed if this is ultimately all-rooted in
               | freakin NIMBYers and Boomer Entitlement in general
               | bullshit
        
           | aksss wrote:
           | Obviously burning is not the only alternative to shipping
           | trash to poorer countries with loose or non-existent enviro
           | and handling standards.
           | 
           | Burying our own trash in landfills (regardless of location)
           | has a lot of upsides if done well and maintained correctly.
           | We still wouldn't want to be growing our crops atop it - I
           | don't think..
        
             | Obscurity4340 wrote:
             | I want to get to the bottom of WHY we even need to even
             | ponder any of those or extend the line of inquiry any
             | further if Japan's approach "works"...
             | 
             | That Japan does this and it "works" is blowing my mind
             | right now. That is extremely compelling and provocative in
             | the context of this discussion so now I wanna know why
             | we're making this more complicated by insisting on
             | searching for a solution to a problem that already has one,
             | however inelegant or politically inconvenient it is.
             | 
             | I am not accusing you when I suggest we're making this more
             | complicated, just making a hopefully reasonable inference
             | that if burning works and this all comes down to a
             | political communication/advocacy ("PR issue"), then I will
             | happy join the "burn it all" crowd). But, you know,
             | respectfully.
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | There's got to be more to this story if its true as to
               | why we are even still discussing this issue
        
         | diffeomorphism wrote:
         | While that is an issue, I don't see why you think that is
         | connected?
         | 
         | The article only mentions contamination in phosphate-based
         | fertilizers.
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | One example, Ghana, second largest cocoa exporter in the
           | world is also the home of the largest e-waste dump site.
           | 
           | I don't know the current status, but Ivory Coast, 1st
           | producer used to have large dump sites it was struggling to
           | manage.
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDjDGrrDD7o
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDjDGrrDD7o
        
         | waveBidder wrote:
         | Lead and Cadmium are inherent in volcanic soil, and is thus
         | something they're going to have to process out.
        
       | Aurornis wrote:
       | It's interesting to see the charts with a binary threshold where
       | green is good and red is bad:
       | https://www.asyousow.org/environmental-health/toxic-enforcem...
       | 
       | The threshold is based on heavy metals per serving. I suppose it
       | makes sense that dark chocolate would be flagged more frequently
       | because it has a higher concentration of cacao per serving.
       | 
       | It also means that for some of these products, eating half as
       | much dark chocolate would give the same dose as someone eating
       | twice as much milk chocolate. Good reminder to consider the
       | absolute dose rather than binary thresholds.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Yeah, I don't like the binary threshold at all. 3.8 is green,
         | while 4.3 is red? That hardly makes a difference to your
         | health.
         | 
         | Meanwhile, both 0.2 and 3.8 are green, while 4.3 and 19.2 are
         | red? It doesn't distinguish _at all_ that one is 4x or 20x
         | worse or better than another.
         | 
         | A color interpolation would be far more informative for health.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | How much chocolate do you think the heaviest "chocoholics"
         | consume? Demographically (in terms of money and in reference to
         | the consumer), who do you think is most likely to be
         | "vulnerable" to this reality? What's the extent of the harm
         | possible or does it compound indefinitely like bioaccumulation
         | or whatever?
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | My wife consumes a lot of chocolate. She would subsist solely
           | on chocolate if that was possible. I have no idea how much
           | she actually consumes, but I'm never surprised to find empty
           | chocolate chip bags in the garbage.
        
             | Obscurity4340 wrote:
             | If you love your wife, show her this article. I have no
             | remaining commentary on the matter otherwise
        
               | irrational wrote:
               | Oh, I did. She just laughed. Chocolate is way too
               | important to her to care about lead poisoning.
        
         | scottlamb wrote:
         | I suppose it just gets across the message that many products
         | aren't compliant at an assumed one serving per day. But yeah,
         | for seeing which levels are meaningfully different thus which
         | products I should really be avoiding, it's not as useful as it
         | could be.
         | 
         | > It also means that for some of these products, eating half as
         | much dark chocolate would give the same dose as someone eating
         | twice as much milk chocolate.
         | 
         | Looks like they used the chocolatiers' serving sizes, which
         | might differ between dark and milk chocolate products already.
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | Serious question: what is the actual story or solution here?
       | 
       | Are food manufacturers breaking California law or not?
       | 
       | And given that it's the cacao beans themselves with lead and
       | cadmium (not factory contamination or something), is the solution
       | to test every batch from each farm individually, and then just
       | throw half the beans into the garbage? Or shut down half the
       | cacao farms worldwide because of tainted soil?
       | 
       | Or is this pretty much in line with food safety levels generally,
       | there's nothing to be worried about, and California guidelines
       | are overly strict?
       | 
       | I just find it unfortunate that the article presents all the
       | facts but basically zero analysis or context.
        
         | adrian_b wrote:
         | This problem is not specific to cocoa.
         | 
         | The seeds of many plants concentrate lead and cadmium whenever
         | they are found in their environment, so with most seeds and
         | nuts there is always a risk of high lead or cadmium content.
         | 
         | In most countries there are legal limits for the lead and
         | cadmium content of seeds and nuts, but the limits are much more
         | lenient than for other products, because there are few sources
         | of seeds and nuts that are not affected, so setting low limits
         | would eliminate most products from the market.
         | 
         | So the only recommendation is like for fish, which should not
         | constitute a too large part of the food due to the risk of high
         | mercury content, also most seeds and nuts should not be a too
         | large part of the food, due to the risk of high lead and
         | cadmium content.
         | 
         | The pollution caused by human stupidity has converted some of
         | the healthiest foods into health risks.
        
           | aksss wrote:
           | In second to last paragraph, you mean that for these reasons
           | of contamination, fish and chocolate should not constitute
           | too large a part of one's diet, correct? Just trying to
           | clarify.
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | Yes.
             | 
             | Consuming them from time to time should not be a problem,
             | but eating a chocolate (or fish) every day presents the
             | risk of excessive intake of contaminants.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, most of us cannot afford to make a chemical
             | analysis of every food we buy, to determine whether it is
             | safe or not for consumption, so it is better to be
             | cautious.
             | 
             | Even the legal limits for the lead and cadmium content of
             | cocoa and of most seeds and nuts are rather high also based
             | on the reasoning that on average they should be only a
             | minor part of the daily intake.
        
           | goda90 wrote:
           | Seeds like grains that make up most of people's diets and the
           | diets of most livestock? That doesn't sound great.
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | Actually products like white flour or white rice have
             | significantly less contaminants than whole grains.
             | 
             | I do not agree with the propaganda about whole grains being
             | healthy. Whole grains have more contaminants and more anti-
             | nutrients, e.g. phytic acid.
             | 
             | Whole grains would be healthier in comparison with white
             | flour or white rice only for someone who would eat nothing
             | else, and even then they would not be healthy enough.
             | 
             | A healthy diet should include processed grains like white
             | flour or white rice as a source of cheap proteins and of
             | energy and it should also include some sources of healthy
             | fat and many other sources for the nutrients that are
             | necessary only in small quantities, like vitamins, minerals
             | or proteins rich in lysine (which is insufficient in
             | cereals). Whole-grain products have inflated prices, while
             | a combination of e.g. white flour with various vegetables
             | is simultaneously cheaper and healthier.
             | 
             | Relying on whole grains to provide what is missing in white
             | flour or white rice is completely inefficient and it also
             | adds the risk of an excessive intake of contaminants.
        
               | crawfordcomeaux wrote:
               | How did you come to the idea that processed foods are
               | part of a healthy diet
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | not all processed foods are healthy, but also not all raw
               | foods are healthy either. most of the issues with
               | processed foods are with the ultra-processed foods, those
               | foods that are manufactured into a food product with
               | minimal or no cooking required. and there's the stuff
               | like iodine or niacin fortification and pasteurization,
               | which we know has had systemic positive effects on
               | nutrition.
               | 
               | there's also where exactly you draw the line for
               | processing. fermentation is like the oldest food
               | preservation method we have (kimchi, cheese): is that
               | processing? the raw diet people even believe cooking of
               | any time is processing.
        
               | avery17 wrote:
               | Nothing is healthy, everything is just varying levels of
               | bad for you. Its all about minimizing.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | Any kind of food must be processed by removing the parts
               | that are not edible or are contaminated or contain
               | various harmful substances.
               | 
               | This kind of processing is always good.
               | 
               | The kind of processing that is bad either adds to food
               | substances that are not food, e.g. conservants or
               | colorants, or it destroys useful components of the food,
               | like vitamins or unsaturated fatty acids, by heating or
               | other harsh treatments.
               | 
               | The useful part of the grains, which cannot be obtained
               | from other sources at a similar price, are the proteins
               | and the starch, which are needed by a human in large
               | quantities daily. Everything else that is contained in
               | the whole grains can be found in countless other
               | vegetables that are better sources than the whole grains.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | that being said, whole grains do cause less glycemic
               | spiking and are important for diabetics.
        
               | nikkwong wrote:
               | What you're missing here is that whole grains (or whole
               | foods in general) are biologically active with
               | phytochemicals such as phenolic acids, flavonoids,
               | lingans, etc, which their processed counterparts
               | generally have less of (or none at all). These compounds
               | get into our body and then work in many ways (many of
               | which that we don't fully understand) to improve
               | important markers of human health.
               | 
               | Plant food is biologically active in ways that animal
               | products are not, and I think people who eat exclusively
               | meat as a source of protein are missing out on a lot of
               | opportunity from the chemical activity of plants that has
               | been shown to be health promoting.
               | 
               | Whole foods do have more antinutrients but in studies
               | I've seen most authors conclude that the benefits greatly
               | outweigh the risks. I agree that I am concerned about the
               | metals in whole foods though; and careful sourcing is
               | important (and even then sometimes insufficient).
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | There are many other vegetables, from which other parts
               | than the seeds are eaten, and which provide large amounts
               | of biologically active phytochemicals.
               | 
               | Seeds, like those of cereals or of legumes, are a
               | necessary part of food because they are the only part of
               | the plants with high content of proteins.
               | 
               | Because of their disadvantage of also concentrating
               | pollutants, it is preferable to use them mainly as a
               | source of proteins and starch, which does not require the
               | use of whole grains, and to get any desirable
               | phytochemicals from other parts of plants.
               | 
               | In the case of oily seeds, the extracted oils (if they
               | are obtained by cold pressing or supercritical carbon
               | dioxide extraction) contain most of the phytochemicals
               | but much less of the heavy metals. For instance, cold-
               | pressed sunflower oil is a better source of
               | phytochemicals than raw sunflower seeds, because the
               | latter, like cocoa, have frequently high contents of lead
               | and cadmium.
               | 
               | So there are ways of processing that improve the quality
               | of the food ingredients. The kinds of processing that are
               | bad are typically those which add undesirable substances
               | to food, not those which remove undesirable substances
               | from food.
        
               | xhrpost wrote:
               | In addition to some of the other comments here mentioning
               | whole grain benefits, I remember doing some brief
               | research here and seeing that processed grains like white
               | rice or white bread tend to be inflammatory while brown
               | rice and whole grain bread are anti-inflammatory. Not
               | sure if that just makes this a "pick your poison"
               | situation or what.
        
           | mensetmanusman wrote:
           | Fish also have selenium which counters the mercury effect.
           | 
           | https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FS437
           | 
           | Eat a lot of fish like the Japanese, you might even become
           | less violent for some reason :)
        
         | chris_va wrote:
         | (disclaimer: I make bean-to-bar chocolate)
         | 
         | As background, food often concentrates whatever is in the soil,
         | and cacao perhaps more so. The shell around the cacao bean is a
         | big filter, and tends to accumulate stuff. This concentration
         | isn't specific to cacao, e.g. see rice and arsenic, etc etc.
         | 
         | Volcanic soil naturally has a lot of cadmium, for example, so
         | you end up with it in the final product for cacao from some
         | regions. The growing areas more popular with large
         | manufacturers (i.e. cheaper cacao) just so happens to be areas
         | with high cadmium levels, so there is a a bit of a correlation
         | between cadmium levels and the size of the operation.
         | 
         | I've been told that pretty much all larger chocolate
         | organizations _do_ test each batch for cadmium, lead, etc. The
         | smaller ones are usually sourcing cacao from higher quality
         | distributors, and those distributors also test everything (and
         | also do transparency reports on labor, handling, and such).
         | 
         | Fundamentally, the guidance on what is an acceptable level is
         | not clear, though I cannot speak for the decision making at the
         | companies listed in the article. CA's particular threshold
         | considered low, and you can get equal amounts of Cd/Pb from a
         | lot of other food sources (generally people don't eat multiple
         | chocolate bars per day, but they might have a cup of rice and
         | get a similar amount of cadmium). Maybe that's also a problem.
         | 
         |  _Lead_ though, really should not be in there. It 's not from
         | the soil, and it's mostly in the shell, which should be removed
         | in processing.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Thank you -- that's very helpful context!
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | Great post. I'm dying to know what company you have/work for?
           | Theo by any chance? AFAIK bean to bar is highly unusual, done
           | by only a dozen or so companies. You appear to be living the
           | dream!
        
             | chris_va wrote:
             | https://spinnakerchocolate.com/
        
             | schoen wrote:
             | I was told a few years ago that bean-to-bar was done by
             | very few companies. But I've since heard that it's had kind
             | of an explosion that somewhat parallels the popularity of
             | beer microbreweries, with a huge boom in sales of
             | chocolate-making equipment.
        
           | Panoramix wrote:
           | I put about a tablespoon of cacao nibs in my breakfast cereal
           | every morning. They are tasty and high in fiber. I guess I
           | have to do some calculations on cadmium exposure.
        
           | foobiekr wrote:
           | I thought the lead was from beans left outdoors to ferment
           | near machinery / vehicles / industrial sites with lead in the
           | emissions.
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | > (and also do transparency reports on labor, handling, and
           | such).
           | 
           | Where would one find these reports?
        
             | chris_va wrote:
             | An example: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ab9229a
             | a9e0287fbf927...
        
           | lippihom wrote:
           | I'm just always blown away by the niche expertise you find on
           | here! Thanks for the info.
        
         | klipt wrote:
         | You should see how much lead is in the average carrot.
         | 
         | Last I checked, baby carrots can have similar lead/lb as the
         | chocolates they're talking about here.
         | 
         | And people chow down on carrots thinking they're "healthy".
        
           | soperj wrote:
           | Can you provide some back up on that? I can't seem to find
           | anything.
        
             | klipt wrote:
             | See table 7 in
             | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-91554-z
             | 
             | Carrot is just one example. 0.027 mg lead / kg carrot.
             | 
             | Or 0.027 micrograms lead / g carrot.
             | 
             | According to the asyousow.org report linked above more than
             | 0.5 micrograms lead per day is bad, which is just 20g
             | (0.7oz) of fresh carrot.
             | 
             | Celery and beetroot are not far off either, around half the
             | lead of carrot by weight.
        
               | soperj wrote:
               | I don't know that a study conducted in Poland with polish
               | goods actually gives you the lead & cadmium levels in an
               | average carrot. Thank you for providing the study though!
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | Odd how the only one that had levels in the teens was Lindt,
         | from Europe. Seems like manufacturers could and should be doing
         | more in the USA.
        
       | thrdbndndn wrote:
       | So cocoa got heavy metals from soil, makes sense.
       | 
       | But why does it have significant more concentration than other
       | crops?
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | _The researchers conclude that while cocoa bean shells may be
         | one source of lead, most contamination occurs during shipping
         | or processing of the beans and in manufacturing. Further
         | research on those stages of the process will help to isolate
         | the source._
         | 
         | source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1281312/
        
         | waveBidder wrote:
         | it doesn't really:
         | 
         | >The FDA estimated dietary exposure of children to Cd and Pb
         | from 2014 to 2016 based on Cd and Pb concentration data from
         | the FDA Total Diet Study and food consumption data from the
         | National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey and determined
         | that dietary Cd and Pb from all sweets (i.e., candy, gelatin,
         | jelly, sugar, and syrup), including chocolate, comprises 1.2
         | and 3.5% of total dietary intake, respectively.
         | 
         | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32293881/ https://sci-
         | hub.se/10.1021/acs.jafc.9b08295
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | From the linked report:
         | 
         | - _" Excessive nib Cd levels occur due to several main factors:
         | 1)_ Theobroma cacao _is a natural Cd accumulating plant species
         | compared to others grown on the same soils; 2) topsoil Cd
         | increases from deposition of litter and harvest debris on the
         | soil surface; 3) Because cocoa roots remain in the topsoil,
         | tillage to incorporate soil amendments harms the trees; 4) Most
         | cocoa soils in South America and the Caribbean (LAC) are
         | strongly acidic with pH as low as 4.5, so low that soil Cd is
         | highly phytoavailable; 5) Some cocoa soils were historically Cd
         | contaminated by mining wastes (minor part of land in cocoa
         | production); and 6) some cocoa soils are naturally Cd enriched
         | from parent rocks (e.g., marine shale) which makes these have
         | high Cd:Zn ratios and thus have very high Cd phytoavailability.
         | In these soils, beans can reach 10 mg Cd /kg rather than the
         | 0.8 mg Cd/kg limit usually enforced on bean imports in the EU.
         | One location in Colombia has 27 mg Cd/kg topsoil, 100-fold
         | background levels. Other areas with high Cd:Zn problem soils
         | growing cocoa were identified in at least Ecuador, Honduras,
         | Peru and Trinidad & Tobago."_
         | 
         | - _" Cocoa plants absorb Cd into roots on a ZIP-family Zn
         | transporter, not on the NRAMP5 transporter used by rice. Zn2+
         | in soil solution strongly inhibits Cd2+ uptake; thus higher
         | Zn2+ in soil can reduce Cd in cocoa beans. The Cd:Zn ratio in
         | the soil solution strongly affects Cd accumulation in cocoa
         | trees and beans. Unfortunately, surface applied ZnSO4 does not
         | rapidly leach into the rooting zone soil, and foliar Zn sprays
         | are ineffective in reducing Cd in beans. Surface applied ZnEDTA
         | as a Zn fertilizer could leach Zn into the rooting depth soil.
         | But ZnEDTA costs much more than ZnSO4."_
        
       | tedchs wrote:
       | > Chocolate [...] Is a popular treat eaten by children and adults
       | and not an essential part of a someone's diet
       | 
       | Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
        
         | mikercampbell wrote:
         | That sounds like the voice of someone who is trying to ruin
         | chocolate for me by making me think heavy metals every time I
         | get a break of that KitKat bar
        
           | mecsred wrote:
           | The article focuses on cocoa content as the source of heavy
           | metals. KitKat is mostly milk chocolate and wafer, you should
           | be good on that front.
        
           | 55555 wrote:
           | Probably funded by Big Vanilla
        
           | soco wrote:
           | Some of us even enjoy heavy metals \m/
        
         | 11235813213455 wrote:
         | Cacao can be part of the diet, it's healthy, like Carob (a good
         | substitute)
         | 
         | Chocolate is a processed product, enriched in sugar, not
         | beneficial in the long term
        
           | notfed wrote:
           | Okay, but, heavy metals are from the Cacao.
        
       | delfinom wrote:
       | mmmm flavor.
        
       | benatkin wrote:
       | They have a Feastables product! By MrBeast. Missed opportunity to
       | include the flavor that I had last night:
       | https://feastables.com/products/deez-nutz-chocolate (purchased at
       | 7-Eleven)
       | 
       | BTW there's a trademark lawsuit, in which I'm rooting for
       | MrBeast: https://www.businessinsider.com/dees-nuts-sues-mr-beast-
       | feas...
       | 
       | Extrapolating, but I don't think it's the worst, if lead is worse
       | than cadmium. Their milk chocolate one is lower in lead than the
       | one from Hershey's.
       | 
       | It reminds me of arsenic in rice.
       | 
       | The founder of Braintree is on a longevity quest and he has a
       | list of what makes healthy chocolate, and suggests a brand. I
       | might start ordering my chocolate.
       | https://protocol.bryanjohnson.co/Blueprint-At-A-Glance
        
         | Modified3019 wrote:
         | On the topic of rice and arsenic, a method of parboiling can
         | greatly reduce the amount, useful if one eats a lot of rice:
         | https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-say-this-rice-cookin...
        
       | queuebert wrote:
       | On the plus side, these tainted chocolate bars provide better
       | X-ray shielding.
        
       | gniv wrote:
       | And so do dried herbs and spices. I wonder how the levels
       | compare.
       | 
       | https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/your-herb...
        
         | MrOwen wrote:
         | Great point to bring up! I learned of this a while ago and
         | saught out sellers who said they tested their products for
         | contaminants like that and found only 2! Hopefully this is not
         | against guidelines to list but the sellers are Starwest
         | Botanicals and Mountain Rose Herbs. Starwest seems to be a
         | little more strict/upfront about testing than mountain rose but
         | products from either should be significantly safer than what
         | you find in the grocery store (which I now avoid like the
         | plague).
        
       | irrational wrote:
       | Just in time for Halloween when kids will be consuming massive
       | amounts of chocolate.
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | Fortunately, there's precious little _actual_ chocolate in most
         | modern Halloween candy.
         | 
         | Now if the heavy metals were in corn syrup and palm oil...
        
       | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
       | Hershey and Nestle are addressing the problem by slowly replacing
       | chocolate with brown-dyed wax so that no one realizes that there
       | is no longer any actual chocolate in the products. Cadmium intake
       | is down 15%, and profits are up 42%. That's win/win.
       | 
       | Correction: It's a brown "waxlike substance". Paraffin was too
       | costly.
        
         | beef234 wrote:
         | So... Tootsie rolls?
        
           | wes-k wrote:
           | They've been user testing this product for decades!
        
         | antimimetics wrote:
         | This is interesting
        
       | hbarka wrote:
       | The author of the article does not seem to be able to make a good
       | distinction between cacao and cocoa. For instance, they wrote
       | "cocoa plant" but there's no such. There's a cacao tree and it
       | grows pods (similar in size and shape to a small American
       | football) and these pods contain beans surrounded by pulp. These
       | pods are cut from the cacao tree, the mushy pulp is allowed to
       | ferment and dry over a period of many days, and then the beans
       | from desiccated pod are what ultimately get transformed into
       | powder and then we get what is referred to as the cocoa butter---
       | from cacao tree to cocoa butter. Finally, it's a complex process
       | of churning the cocoa butter with the addition of milk and
       | lecithin to get the tasty end product chocolate. In most cases it
       | is mostly milk chocolate and lecithin with a smaller percent of
       | cocoa butter.
       | 
       | The native origins of Cacao trees are in the Amazon region
       | (Brazil, Colombia, Peru) but have a rich history of being
       | transplanted to other regions around the world since colonial
       | times, largely for commercialization. In present day, the top
       | growers of cacao trees are in Africa. 70% of the world's cocoa
       | come from Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, and Ghana.
       | 
       | The CR article fails to make the connection as to where in the
       | lifecycle the heavy metals are introduced.
        
         | ses1984 wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure the heavy metals are introduced from the soils
         | in certain regions, maybe most regions, where cacao is grown.
         | 
         | I think you may have applied a little unnecessary pedantry. In
         | many languages there is only one word used to describe the tree
         | and the finished product, and that's most of the time enough to
         | figure out what people are talking about in context.
        
           | hbarka wrote:
           | Among nutritionists and cooks, there is a big distinction.
           | There's cacao powder and there's cocoa powder. There's also a
           | big difference between cocoa versus chocolate, which is
           | really milk chocolate.
           | 
           | The real question is which soils contain the pollutants. Is
           | there a statistical significance among cacao trees grown in
           | the Amazon region versus African region, for example, and
           | why.
        
             | ses1984 wrote:
             | Ok, but it's pretty obvious to anyone reading that cocoa
             | plant and cacao plant refer to the same thing. And if the
             | only difference between cocoa powder and cacao powder is
             | the heat used in processing, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't
             | change the heavy metal content, so it's irrelevant.
             | 
             | It's funny your make such a big deal out of this and then
             | say something like "chocolate is really milk chocolate."
        
               | hbarka wrote:
               | > the only difference between cocoa powder and cacao
               | powder is the heat
               | 
               | and this is why it's important to know your cocoa from
               | cacao
               | 
               | Grape vine - grape fruit - wine
               | 
               | Cacao tree - cacao bean - cocoa
        
         | dwroberts wrote:
         | > For instance, they wrote "cocoa plant" but there's no such
         | 
         | They're both accepted names for the same plant
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | > _For instance, they wrote "cocoa plant" but there's no such.
         | There's a cacao tree..._
         | 
         | Cacao and cocoa are more interchangeable than you think:
         | 
         | > _Theobroma cacao (cacao tree or cocoa tree)_ [1]
         | 
         | The usage shifts according to country and industry. Where you
         | live/work I have no doubt it's called cacao, but in another
         | region it will be the opposite.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobroma_cacao
        
           | hbarka wrote:
           | Grape vine -> grape fruit -> fermentation+processing = wine
           | 
           | Cacao tree -> cacao bean -> fermentation+process = cocoa
           | butter -> +milk+sugar+lecithin = chocolate
           | 
           | [0] https://www.webmd.com/diet/difference-between-cocoa-and-
           | caca...
        
       | RobotToaster wrote:
       | At least it isn't death metal.
        
       | account-5 wrote:
       | Is this a world thing or a US thing?
        
       | autoexec wrote:
       | This ought to make Halloween a little creepier. Everything we've
       | got for the Candy Bowl this year has chocolate in it.
       | 
       | The FDA hasn't just dropped the ball here, they've set it down
       | and kicked it away from them. They seem dead set against
       | regulating the food industry to protect consumers (aka doing
       | their job). Food companies could produce chocolate safely, but
       | they don't want to because it would eat into their profits.
       | They're fine with poisoning us to make a little more money, but
       | if they weren't allowed to sell chocolate at all unless it
       | conformed to a federal limit they'd do it because selling
       | chocolate would still be massively profitable.
       | 
       | We really need to put pressure on the FDA to do their job and set
       | federal limits for the amount of heavy metals allowable in our
       | foods. Our food supply seems to be getting less and less safe all
       | the time. Why are we letting these FDA employees live off of our
       | tax dollars if they refuse to work for us?
        
         | anon373839 wrote:
         | It's a difficult problem to solve. There is a very sleazy
         | revolving door between regulators and regulated industries.
         | Industries will essentially send people to work as regulators
         | and represent the industries' interests while in their
         | government posts. These people then return to industry to
         | command much higher salaries. In this way, government service
         | is a stepping stone to a better private sector job.
         | 
         | But it would be hard to shut this down because regulatory
         | bodies need industry insiders working for them. You don't want
         | the agencies to be composed of people who couldn't hack it in
         | the private sector.
         | 
         | This is one of the reasons I am skeptical when people
         | reflexively suggest more government regulation as the solution
         | to all problems.
        
           | smolder wrote:
           | > But it would be hard to shut this down because regulatory
           | bodies need industry insiders working for them. You don't
           | want the agencies to be composed of people who couldn't hack
           | it in the private sector.
           | 
           | I think this problem (the need for industry players in
           | regulatory bodies) is overstated by many. In particular, you
           | don't need them in leadership roles, they can just consult.
           | We could also write a law to close the door on their return
           | to an industry after working as a regulator, but we don't. My
           | conclusion is that the corrupt practices continue mainly
           | because the corrupt people want them to.
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | I'll agree that there are some cases where it'd be useful to
           | have someone with familiarity with the industries they
           | regulate on staff.
           | 
           | This case in particular is one where in-depth insider
           | knowledge or decades of industry experience shouldn't be an
           | issue since setting "safe" levels of poison is entirely about
           | the negative health impacts of heavy metals on the consumer
           | and the specific means for reducing the levels of those
           | poisons in the products themselves can be left entirely to
           | the "experts" at the chocolate factory/cocoa farm. Regulators
           | can just set a level deemed "safe" and it falls on the
           | corporations to either offer a safe product or, if they are
           | unable or unwilling to meet the standard, find a new way to
           | make money that doesn't involve the mass poisoning of the
           | American public.
           | 
           | We could bring just about any random person in off the street
           | and have them consult with medical experts to develop the
           | standards. In fact, the farther away from the food industry
           | that person is the better.
           | 
           | I'd argue that the more a regulatory agency is focused on the
           | health and safety of the consumer, the less important it is
           | for the regulators to be intimately familiar with the
           | industry being regulated. At least, when we're already aware
           | of the health problems and know what to test for. Industry
           | insiders may be able to help identify products or chemicals
           | in cases where companies know they are selling dangerous
           | products and are hiding that information from the public, but
           | it seems that someone with close ties to the industry
           | wouldn't be very likely to act as a whistleblower in those
           | cases anyway.
        
       | 01100011 wrote:
       | As someone who regularly consumes large amounts of dark chocolate
       | and has for decades, is there anything I can do to reduce the
       | accumulated heavy metals, short of injecting chelating
       | agents(assuming that would even work)? And I'm not suggesting
       | chelation therapy, just mentioning it because I have heard it is
       | the usual treatment for _acute_ metal poisoning.
        
         | Solvency wrote:
         | Literally by donating blood. That's the most effective way to
         | gradually clear heavy metals.
         | 
         | But they're also stored in your fat tissue. When you burn fat
         | you temporarily leak those metals back into your bloodstream.
        
           | 01100011 wrote:
           | I can only find references to blood donation lowering PFAS
           | levels, not heavy metals, but it does make some sense.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6523211/
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | For convenience, here's the primary source at the end of the
       | chain of links (at depth=5):
       | 
       |  _" Expert Investigation Related to Cocoa and Chocolate Products:
       | Final Report"_
       | 
       | https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59a706d4f5e2319b70240...
       | (pdf, 381pp)
        
         | eh_why_not wrote:
         | The file is from March 2022, and the article October 2023.
         | Curious why it would take 1.5 years to go from investigation to
         | report.
        
       | goodmachine wrote:
       | Mmm... cadmium
        
       | demondemidi wrote:
       | Similar problems with protein powder:
       | 
       | https://www.consumerreports.org/dietary-supplements/heavy-me...
        
       | GalaxyNova wrote:
       | how fucked are we?
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related. Others?
       | 
       |  _Do I need to avoid dark chocolate now?_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35216973 - March 2023 (62
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Hershey sued over chocolate containing heavy metals_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34179115 - Dec 2022 (9
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Lead and Cadmium Could Be in Your Dark Chocolate_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34016384 - Dec 2022 (11
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Research reveals ways lead and cadmium in chocolate may be
       | reduced_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34014515 - Dec
       | 2022 (82 comments)
       | 
       |  _Consumer Group's Test Finds Lead, Cadmium in Some Chocolate
       | Treats_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11359270 - March
       | 2016 (1 comment)
        
       | Solvency wrote:
       | I love how Hu Chocolate is one of the worst offenders while Whole
       | Foods and Erewhorn peddle it as the healthiest chocolate.
        
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