[HN Gopher] Linux Mint Working on Wayland Support
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Linux Mint Working on Wayland Support
Author : AdmiralAsshat
Score : 29 points
Date : 2023-10-26 20:34 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.linuxmint.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.linuxmint.com)
| xtracto wrote:
| Too bad. Hopefully they don't move to Wayland, as it is still
| immature. Just the other day a colleague had the black screen
| sharing issue https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/how-to-fix-black-
| screen-on...
|
| Also the issue of remote desktop
| https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/wrq4zh/why_remote_de...
|
| I'd rather wait another 5 to 10 years for wayland to catchup with
| X functionality.
| deepsun wrote:
| Discussed previously at:
|
| "I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit (drewdevault.com)"
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26001179
| hedora wrote:
| The top comment there from AnIdiotOnTheNet clearly explains
| why the complaints aren't "horseshit".
|
| As far as I can tell, no progress has been made in the last
| two years (since the problem is organizational, not
| technical, and the wayland architecture would have to
| drastically change to meet user expectations).
| jcastro wrote:
| The article you linked literally shows you that the problem is
| a setting in the browser that needs to be fixed.
| gizmo686 wrote:
| > We don't expect it to replace Xorg as default any time soon
| tristan957 wrote:
| Then you would have to wait forever because it is a goal of
| Wayland not to implement all of X.
| hedora wrote:
| I think you just made their point for them.
| josephcsible wrote:
| Between that and distros and DE's saying they're going to
| remove X support, it really feels like a giant middle finger
| to anyone relying on said features.
| fturst wrote:
| what, inform me please, which distros and DEs say that? I
| couldnt find it by search.
| pengaru wrote:
| prolly referring to
| https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-40-Eyes-
| No-X11-Session
| johnny22 wrote:
| the new cosmic DE doesnt support x11 at all. Fedora KDE
| SIG plans to not offer the x11 session in the session
| chooser.
| babypuncher wrote:
| Wayland will not and should not try to replicate all X
| functionality. Apps should be updated to work with the way
| Wayland does things.
|
| This is absolutely necessary to reap some of the benefits
| provided by Wayland. There is no way around it. A big one is
| Wayland's security model, of which X has none, and adding such
| access controls to X would end up breaking the same apps.
|
| The longer everyone sticks to X, the further it will fall
| behind Windows and macOS.
| II2II wrote:
| It may not be the 5 to 10 years you want, but they did mention
| support being available in the 2026 timeframe.
|
| As for catching up with X functionality, times change and
| software changes with it. Not everyone will appreciate that
| change and it is doubtful that anyone will be entirely
| satisfied (though some will see the benefits as outweighing
| what they lose).
|
| Not that that really matters. It looks like Wayland will be the
| future of graphics on Linux. It is simply a matter of when
| people choose to adopt it.
| erik_seaberg wrote:
| With nobody working on remote GPU-accelerated rendering apart
| from Javascript and Wasm, it looks like the browser will be
| the future of graphics.
| haunter wrote:
| >Hypnotix, the TV viewer application
|
| How is that app legal btw? Or more like how is it okay what Mint
| does? The majority of the streams are pirated. I know the app
| itself is open source and it's a frontend for Free TV but it's
| still sharing copyrighted content. https://github.com/Free-
| TV/IPTV/tree/master/playlists
|
| It would be a different story if it comes "empty" like
| Transmission but it isn't.
| esrauch wrote:
| FreeTV seems to claim to only have freely available legal
| content, is it actually just a false claim and it has pirated
| content?
| HissingMachine wrote:
| Well, at least all the channels from my country are either
| public or advertisement funded channels that you can see for
| free, can you give some examples of pirated content?
| anotherhue wrote:
| Generally the worst offenders for Wayland support are closed
| source / abandoned apps that you should consider replacing. Zoom
| crashes if I try and screenshare, but google meet (in a chrome-
| alike) works fine. I don't want zoom anyway.
| michaelmrose wrote:
| People you need to communicate with especially for work are
| unlikely to be impressed by your reason why everyone should use
| a different technology.
| linuxandrew wrote:
| Have you tried using Zoom in-browser? That worked last time I
| tried, and you avoid downloading a proprietary non-system
| package.
| petepete wrote:
| This is what I need to do to to be able to share my screen in
| Slack or Teams.
| abrouwers wrote:
| I haven't had luck with chrom(ium,e) using scaling, or vaapi,
| natively on Wayland. Firefox is a far better experience for me.
| johnny22 wrote:
| they'll get that settled properly at some point, since
| chromeos is switching to a wayland compositor.
| mariusmg wrote:
| Regarding Wayland support, the gap between KDE/Gnome and these
| smaller DEs (XFCE, Cinnamon, Mate , LXDE etc etc) is getting
| wider and wider...
| smoldesu wrote:
| Yep! Though to be fair, it's mostly because KDE and GNOME are
| starting to merge really great Wayland support patches.
|
| I'm personally not much of a fan of the way Wayland was rolled
| out or designed, but I _do_ daily-drive it without issue on
| Plasma. It 's far-and-away the better option for gesture-
| oriented workflows and gaming, and it feels more deeply
| integrated with the DE (for better and worse). It's the new
| hotness that all the gimmeck-obsessed Windows and Mac converts
| are going to want. You, me and the UNIX graybeard in the
| basement might get our feathers ruffled, but Bob and Alice get
| touchpad gestures.
| jraph wrote:
| > get touchpad gestures
|
| Which ones?
|
| Is there something beyond pinch zooming (which works on both)
| that works on Wayland and not on X?
| smoldesu wrote:
| All the Plasma desktop gestures are broken on x11, and if
| memory serves it's the same situation on GNOME. I spent a
| long time on x11 trying to get it to work (via Touchegg et.
| al) but eventually left for Wayland where it worked out-of-
| box.
|
| And to be fair, _some_ gestures do work on x11. 2-finger
| trackpad scrolling isn 't precise but it works, and
| Chromium/Firefox both seem to work with libinput-gestures.
| The situation is completely different for native
| applications and desktops though (unfortunately). On
| Wayland, gestures work like they do on MacOS and Windows.
| On x11 they work like they did in Compiz.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| Hot take (and sorry ahead of time): A bunch of open source
| developers drawing a line in the sand on which project they
| like to contribute to in a fragmented fashion instead of
| working together isn't great for the "end user".
|
| Not that people should be forced to spend their time doing
| anything they don't want to do when it comes to free, volunteer
| open-source contributions. Just an interesting callout.
|
| It's pretty clear _why_ the gap is getting wider: too few
| people working on too many ways to skin the same cat.
| mcpackieh wrote:
| The gap is getting wider for a very specific reason: Wayland.
| Unlike X.org, it doesn't have a single reference
| implementation that virtually everybody is using. Furthermore
| it is under-specified so DEs are forced to implement their
| own proprietary solutions to common problems until Wayland
| comes along with a third "official" way of doing it several
| years layer. These two factors result in deteriorating
| compatibility between the different desktop environments.
|
| It used to be that if you used Gnome but really liked some
| KDE applications or utilities, you could just use those KDE
| applications under Gnome and it was fine. People can and did
| mix and match whichever parts of the different desktop
| systems they liked the most. I remember when I first figured
| out that it worked this way as a teenager, it was absolutely
| magical. But now, thanks to those two properties of Wayland
| this interoperability is being ruined. Application developers
| are burdened to support one, the other, or write even more
| code to support both. In their pursuit of simplicity, Wayland
| designers burdened application designers with this
| complexity.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| Why do there have to be so many different:
|
| C libraries
|
| shells
|
| window managers / desktop environments
|
| package managers
|
| Think of the global man hours wasted achieving basically
| the same thing slightly different ways
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| I honestly don't understand your comment at all. I'm not super
| familiar with Wayland.
|
| Is it possible for a "smaller DE" or a lightweight WM to
| properly support Wayland or is Wayland support only possible
| with layers upon layers of bloat?
|
| I'm asking because I'm still on X but I see that either I'll
| have to quit using Linux or I'll have to eventually move to
| Wayland. And I like my WM/DE ultra lean and ultra small.
|
| If Wayland implies KDE or Gnome, I'm leaving Linux the day I
| cannot use X anymore...
| johnny22 wrote:
| there are many wayland compositors like sway, hyprland, labwc
| and others i'm not aware of. sway is just i3, but done as a
| wayland compositor. i would expect you'll see more popular
| ones in the future. XFCE is goign that way as well, but
| slowly as expected.
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