[HN Gopher] Could a near-Earth asteroid be a piece of the moon?
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       Could a near-Earth asteroid be a piece of the moon?
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2023-10-26 16:04 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.spacechatter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.spacechatter.com)
        
       | SamBam wrote:
       | That video animation is bizarre, because it seems like the
       | asteroid changes the direction of its orbit around the sun.
       | 
       | But am I right in interpreting this from the perspective of the
       | Earth being stationary, and actually the asteroid keeps on moving
       | around the sun in the same direction but sometimes we were
       | catching up to the asteroid, and sometimes it was catching up to
       | us?
        
         | datameta wrote:
         | Yes, sometimes our velocity relative to the Sun is greater than
         | the asteroid's depending on where in the orbit we are, and vice
         | versa.
        
         | onetimeuse92304 wrote:
         | Yes, the orbit is visualised in relation to the Earth-Sun
         | system.
         | 
         | Yes, the asteroid and Earth are catching up to each other and
         | actually exchanging energy (although the effect on Earth is
         | probably not measurable).
        
         | piecerough wrote:
         | Thanks for writing this question up ;)
        
       | netcraft wrote:
       | > Throughout its history, the moon has endured countless asteroid
       | impacts, leaving visible impact craters on its surface. These
       | craters form when asteroids or meteorites collide with celestial
       | bodies. Although most of the ejected lunar material falls back
       | onto the moon, a fraction reaches Earth as meteorites. However,
       | an even smaller fraction can escape both lunar and Earth's
       | gravitational pull, entering solar orbits akin to those of near-
       | Earth asteroids.
       | 
       | So I interpret this to mean they think this came from an impact
       | after the moon formed that broke a chunk off, not a fragment from
       | the formation of the moon itself? If it was the latter I would
       | think that it would be a great subject to study about the
       | formation of the moon
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | That's my reading as well, that it's a knock-off rather than a
         | sibling.
         | 
         | If it was formed from the hypothesized Earth/Theia impact,
         | would it have been (more) molten, and would that have affected
         | its cooled shape?
        
       | aceazzameen wrote:
       | Wow. I had no idea a horseshoe orbit was possible.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | Same! The animation is wild.
         | 
         | Apparently it will oscillate between being in orbit around
         | earth to going back into a bouncy horseshoe orbit. Over and
         | over throughout the millennia.
         | 
         | There are even more animations here, though the one in the
         | article is great:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/469219_Kamo%CA%BBoalewa
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/469219_Kamo%CA%BBoalewa#/media...
        
           | herpdyderp wrote:
           | This is only animation from all of these I've seen that makes
           | any sense to my brain, I still can't figure out what's going
           | on in the others:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Asteroid2016HO3-SunEarthO.
           | ..
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Thank you. But I am having the hardest time understanding how
           | this entirely reasonable-looking orbit "around the sun":
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Animation_of_2016_HO3_orb.
           | ..
           | 
           | Somehow turns into this loop-de-loop "relative to the sun and
           | earth":
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Animation_of_2016_HO3_orb.
           | ..
           | 
           | Is this essentially the origin of epicycle model of the
           | planets? Do all planets look like that loop-de-loop graphic,
           | but for whatever reason we never plot them that way, but for
           | some reason this article _is_ plotting the asteroid this way?
           | (Just to confuse us?)
        
         | fluoridation wrote:
         | It must be noted that it's a horseshoe only relative to the
         | Sun-Earth system. Relative to the Sun it's just a normal
         | elliptical orbit that keeps changing shape.
        
         | aaaronic wrote:
         | 3+ body orbits can be wild!
         | 
         | It doesn't make any sense in a 2-body orbit (those are all
         | conic sections).
        
         | finite_depth wrote:
         | Horseshoe orbits come from the most counterintuitive behavior
         | of orbits: if you thrust _forward_ , you go _slower_. And if
         | you thrust _backward_ , you go _faster_. (The reason is that
         | thrusting forward puts you in a higher orbit.)
         | 
         | In a horseshoe orbit, when the small body approaches the medium
         | body "from behind" (that is, the small body is moving faster
         | than the medium body), the medium body tugs the small body
         | forward. That is an effective forward thrust for the small
         | body, which rises into a higher orbit and slows down as a
         | result. That means the small body starts to fall behind, losing
         | ground relative to the medium body.
         | 
         | After it loses enough ground, it approaches the medium body
         | from the _front_ (or, if you prefer, the medium body catches up
         | to it from behind). Then the medium body 's gravity tugs it
         | backward, dropping it into a lower and faster orbit, and the
         | cycle repeats.
         | 
         | The most exceptional example of this is two of Saturn's moons,
         | Janus and Epimetheus, which share an orbit and periodically
         | trade places in it as a result of these dynamics.
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | Another fun one is the long term orbits of expended Apollo
         | hardware. The below article shows the booster entering by way
         | of L1 into something like a Molniya orbit until leaving again.
         | 
         |  _Yeung's discovery, formally named J002E3, became the focus of
         | an intense analysis with a unique result. The object was not an
         | asteroid captured by Earth in a cosmic game of coincidence.
         | This was a relic of humanity's space race: an Apollo-era rocket
         | that had been placed in orbit around the Sun -- and then
         | returned to Earth._
         | 
         | https://www.astronomy.com/space-exploration/how-a-long-gone-...
        
       | te wrote:
       | In the transitions between quasi-satellite orbit and horseshoe
       | orbit, why does it not hit Earth?
        
         | araes wrote:
         | Per @herpyderp's comment below, the best animation that shows
         | this features a 3D rotation to orient so you can see how the
         | rock is actually moving. [1] The movement is actually closer to
         | a distorted torus with the Earth moving as a line in the
         | center. The rock just rotates over the surface of the torus
         | (longterm).
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/5/...
        
         | readyplayernull wrote:
         | Because both objects are too small.
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Why do a lot of science writers feel the need to turn hypotheses
       | into certainties? That really drives me nuts.
       | 
       | "We are now establishing that the moon is a more likely source of
       | Kamo'oalewa", says study senior author Renu Malhotra.
       | 
       | He did NOT say "This Near-Earth Asteroid Is Actually A Chunk Of
       | The Moon".
       | 
       | I mean would it really drive traffic down if the title said
       | "likely" or "probably" instead of "actually"?
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, we've replaced the title with the question the article
         | actually contains.
        
           | d--b wrote:
           | Oh, nice, thanks
        
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