[HN Gopher] Thurston Moore Revisits His Sonic Youth
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Thurston Moore Revisits His Sonic Youth
Author : tintinnabula
Score : 79 points
Date : 2023-10-25 00:14 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| dml2135 wrote:
| Huge Sonic Youth fan, albeit a younger one. I caught the tail-end
| of their career in my HS/college days, c. 2003-2010. I can't
| think of an equivalent band today that has the kind of stature
| they had at the time in the indie scene.
|
| Part of what I loved so much about them is the number of free
| shows they put on. I can always pin the year that I saw them in
| Prospect Park at 2010, because the iPhone 4 had just been
| released, and my friend who I was with proceeded to watch the
| entire show through her new phone, being completely enamored with
| the "retina display" while tripping on acid.
|
| When I saw them in 2008 in Battery Park, I had the pleasure of
| sitting on the lawn next to 90s child star Danny Tamborelli, who
| many will remember as one of the stars of Pete & Pete (a show
| with its own sort of indie cred). My friend I was with turned to
| me and said "That's Danny Tamborelli, we need to say hi to him"
| and before I could get "No we absolutely do not" out of my mouth,
| he dragged me over and proceeded to introduce us saying "We're
| great fans of your work". So I shook his hand, way too high for
| this interaction, as Thurston took a drumstick to his guitar in
| the background.
|
| I miss Sonic Youth a lot.
| prpl wrote:
| Saw them first in 2004 with my brother. Wolf Eyes opened, my
| brother ended up leaving because he was sick.
|
| It was my first "real" concert. I'd been listening to music
| heavily by then, we'll into indie, but being poor and 17/18/19
| it was hard to see live music. I'd been to others concerts
| small and big (Closing Olympic Ceremonies) - but that one
| cemented my love for live music, and I got really into the
| local scene after seeing another smaller show (Q and not U)
| after that.
|
| I saw them again ~2008 and it was good, not as good, but Rather
| Ripped was a great album so got to see a bunch of stuff from
| them.
|
| Pavement was up there for me too, and I just saw them twice
| over the last 12 months.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| _but being poor and 17 /18/19 it was hard to see live music_
|
| I count my lucky stars I grew up in a city with a lot of
| cheap, all ages shows. Of the shows I've been to over the
| years, seeing Q and not U in a church basement in ~2003 still
| sticks out in my mind.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Damn, Wolf Eyes?? That's a name I haven't heard in a minute.
| Man, miss the days of the sounds of Black Dice, Sightings,
| Load Records, and the likes
| salynchnew wrote:
| The Load Records/Three One Gee/Troubleman era was
| incredible.
|
| Blogs and forums were ubiquitous, but the average person's
| attention had not yet been strip mined by * platform
| companies. Pitchfork was just getting started, too, and
| (cruicially) Spotify wasn't even an idea yet, so
| independent artists could reliably make money the old
| fashioned way (CD/album sales) but had access to a much
| larger community of potential listeners.
|
| Everything still had a very decentralized and DIY feel.
| salynchnew wrote:
| > Saw them first in 2004 with my brother. Wolf Eyes opened,
| my brother ended up leaving because he was sick.
|
| Sounds like hyperacusis to me. /s
|
| In all seriousness, that sounds like an amazing show.
| bobchadwick wrote:
| The SLC Olympics? I saw Modest Mouse play at what was
| apparently the Ice Village (had to Google it). If I remember
| correctly, it was a weird and not great show.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| https://www.skatevideosite.com/videos/nike-sb-nothing-but-th...
|
| This video came out in 2007
|
| > Paul Rodriguez: Sonic Youth - Teen Age Riot
|
| Opened my eyes...
| dfxm12 wrote:
| Similarly for me I saw a skate video a million years ago had
| the song Bloodstains by Agent Orange. Living in Darkness
| became one of my favorite albums & I still see Agent Orange
| whenever they come to town.
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| If they had huge stature in your scene, it's funny how
| different experiences can be. My interest in SY was piqued in
| 2000 because they had recorded an EP with song titles in
| Esperanto, something I dabbled in then. In spite of having a
| large circle of friends interested in indie music, and being
| active on some music forums, no one listened to SY or was even
| very aware of them. My conclusion at the time was that their
| star had waned and they must have been an '80s or earlier '90s
| thing.
| beepbooptheory wrote:
| They were definitely in the old guard by 2000 or so, just in
| that they had already had a career and half by then. They
| toured with Nirvana!
|
| But that doesn't mean their later albums aren't also great
| and squarely in the canon. Sonic Nurse, in particular, is one
| of their best imo.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Damn we were at the same show dude. That was a great one. Saw
| them two other times in the northeast a year or so before that
| one and man they (did :/ ) put on a hell of a show.
|
| Random side note, saw Kim Gordon at a book signing in Brooklyn
| like 10 years ago (iirc post-Sonic Youth), and man she was
| looking rough unfortunately and was really out of it. Guess the
| whole situation she and everyone was dealing with took a bad
| toll :/
| nativespecies wrote:
| Kim is fine, she is not "rough" by any means. Thriving
| actually, from my IRL interactions.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Just saying that's the impression that my friend and I had
| after leaving the book signing 10 or so years ago.
|
| Either way, that's good to hear she's well and thriving.
| mturmon wrote:
| Yeah, I've been to 2 recent shows of hers at Zebulon in LA.
| Definitely still bringing the noise and intensity.
| rocketbop wrote:
| I don't know why exactly Thurston Moore was interviewing an at
| that time almost unknown Beck, but it's such a funny, strange,
| but warm interview that I never fail to get a kick out of it.
|
| https://youtu.be/zdzY49xlvdY?si=fVimAnAJaQTZmqZt
| next_xibalba wrote:
| He wasn't unknown. Loser Baby was giant hit. Moore says so at
| the very start of the interview.
| art-not wrote:
| I remember this interview so well. It was a common reference
| for a friend and I in highschool. "Xanadu, I'm sure all the
| listeners will be able to relate to that"
| turmon wrote:
| Yeah, I had not appreciated the strange and sudden success of
| _Loser_ after a bunch of tough times for the young musician - I
| just reviewed his page on Wikipedia.
|
| What an amazing moment to capture. Thurston's deadpan style
| works perfectly. Thanks for the link.
| ilamont wrote:
| I've been listening to Sonic Youth since Evol. Their live sound
| got better as they aged, which doesn't happen for a lot of bands.
| This show from Austin City Limits in 2011, months before they
| broke up, captures it pretty well:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O8VLwh1Na0
|
| An underappreciated aspect of Sonic Youth is the drumming of
| Steve Shelley. He kept many of the discordant songs together and
| provided a driving beat (when needed) with some very creative
| fills and accents. I worked at a college radio station when Kool
| Thing came out and we got an alt mix or B side take on a 45 that
| was incredible thanks to his drumming.
|
| For further reading on the early history of the band, I recommend
| _Our Band Could Be Your Life: Scenes from the American Indie
| Underground, 1981-1991_.
| https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/michael-azerrad/our...
|
| Like Thurston said in the NYT interview, everyone is asking for
| Sonic Youth to reform for performances but I can't see Kim going
| along with it. OTOH Talking Heads got back together for the
| documentary release after David Byrne burned the proverbial
| bridges, so who knows?
| WOOKIE_pizza wrote:
| > This show from Austin City Limits... captures it pretty well
|
| Wow, that show is nothing less than epic!
|
| Thanks for sharing +1
| _jal wrote:
| Same, but I didn't get to see them live until Daydream Nation.
| Those shows were a lot of fun, but yeah, I was only catching
| the end of that, but earlier shows were... noisy. It took them
| a while to get art-rock inaccessibility-as-cred out of their
| system. Or maybe Moore is just really self-indulgent. Or both.
|
| You never know what will happen, but after reading _Girl in a
| Band_, I don't think Deal is interested.
| ilamont wrote:
| I have a Dutch import of a live Sonic Youth club show from
| Amsterdam in the mid 80s. It's practically unlistenable. I
| get that their crucible was art/punk/experimental/psychedelic
| but it would be some years before they put away the power
| drills and lava lamps and got down to being a solid live rock
| band.
|
| Their studio efforts from the early era were better IMHO.
| _jal wrote:
| > Their studio efforts from the early era were better IMHO.
|
| Oh, absolutely. I still listen to Evol and Sister fairly
| regularly. The noise shows were a lot of fun to be at when
| I was a kid, but I wouldn't want to listen to them again.
| ideamotor wrote:
| Really good to hear that since I only saw them once and it was
| near the end, despite driving a car with a sonic youth bumper
| sticker for fifteen years. Thanks for the link!
| cammikebrown wrote:
| Appearing together, and actually performing together are two
| very different things
| plz-remove-card wrote:
| The audio book version is narrated by him, nice.
| earthscienceman wrote:
| I was never big on Sonic Youth but I met Thurston Moore at a
| poetry reading when he was touring around for his book. I went
| because a friend suggested. I was in awe at his ease with fans
| and his general excitement for "the scene". I wish that was how
| most musicians treated their local following. Great music is
| fostered by local communities and he knew that and emphasized it.
| I admire that as much as I admire his talent.
| art-not wrote:
| I've mostly fell out of listening to Sonic Youth, but it was the
| first band to ever open my eyes to the idea of 'weird' music. I
| think a lot of who I am today began with that first experience,
| when I first listened to Evol.
|
| While I don't listen to them much anymore, I still put on Washing
| Machine from time to time. I'd argue that is their best work.
| _rpxpx wrote:
| Agreed. I bought Washing Machine on the day it was released,
| during my secondary school lunch break. I remember the NME
| review claiming The Diamond Sea as the best thing SY had ever
| done. I agreed with that when I got it home, and still do. It
| was the pinnacle of their work really, which went rapidly
| downhill afterwards. Pitchfork's 0.0 rating of NYC Ghosts &
| Flowers was sadly wholly appropriate. But the records
| Evol-->Washing Machine altered my life completely, and turned
| me on to the idea of weird/experimental/avant-garde music, and
| art.
| danieldk wrote:
| > It was the pinnacle of their work really, which went
| rapidly downhill afterwards. Pitchfork's 0.0 rating of NYC
| Ghosts & Flowers was sadly wholly appropriate.
|
| I think that was pretty much the only dud (together with Jet
| Set), Murray Street and the albums after that are quite ok.
| danieldk wrote:
| Sonic Youth was a large part of my high school sound track. I
| had some class mates who were also into indie music, I lent my
| copy of Washing Machine to one of them, when she returned it to
| me she looked at me as if I was insane (or at least my taste in
| music).
|
| Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation were my favorites though.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| >> Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation were my favorites though
|
| Same here but I would add in Bad Moon Rising which is
| certainly appropriate for the time of year.
| appletrotter wrote:
| It's a shame he cheated on his wife :(
| nativespecies wrote:
| Not sure why you're getting downvoted. It almost certainly
| played a role in the band breaking up as well.
| cammikebrown wrote:
| It was the entire reason they broke up, in fact.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| Huh, well that's disappointing to hear. This sort of thing is
| why I basically never look into the personal lives of artists.
| adw wrote:
| The whole backstory here is, to say the least, complex,
| extends over about a decade, and is important subtext for the
| last few SY records.
|
| Starting around 2003, Jim O'Rourke (go listen to Bad Timing
| and Insignificance, which are both amazing records and very
| different to each other) was in a relationship with Eva Prinz
| while she was in a (maybe?) open marriage to her first
| husband. In some order, then:
|
| * Jim and Eva break up
|
| * (2005) Jim a) leaves Sonic Youth b) moves across the
| country c) moves to Japan
|
| * (2006) Eva and Thurston Moore start a publishing company,
| Ecstatic Peace Library
|
| * somewhere in here, Eva Prinz gets divorced
|
| * (2009) Eva Prinz marries Bernardo Guillermo, a furniture
| designer and the son of Princess Christina of the
| Netherlands; they have two kids, one before and one after the
| wedding
|
| * (2010) Kim Gordon finds out about Thurston's affair with
| Eva
|
| * (2011) Kim and Thurston separate; Sonic Youth split up
|
| * (2013) Kim and Thurston divorce
|
| * (by 2017) Thurston and Eva relocate to London
|
| * (2020) Thurston and Eva marry
|
| From the outside, assigning responsibility for anything here
| is kind of impossible and immoral, but the whole thing is
| remarkably cliched rock-and-roll nonsense for a band like
| Sonic Youth were...
| justinator wrote:
| Kim and Thurston were in an open marriage beforehand, so
| add a layer of complexity.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| >> the whole thing is remarkably cliched rock-and-roll
| nonsense
|
| They were married almost 30 years. It's a rock cliche to be
| dead by the age of 30, not to get a divorce after being
| married that long.
| bsder wrote:
| It is a shame, but stupid relationship drama seems to go hand
| in hand with high creativity.
|
| I don't know if this is just "creativity breeds madness", "fame
| allows people to be shitty", "most marriages fail", or simply
| "reporting bias" (happily married couples aren't juicy news).
| robear wrote:
| I was a big SY fan in high school (early 90s). I would watch
| parts of "1991: The Year Punk Broke" almost every day after
| school. I have never been good at music but I tried to get into
| guitar. Evidently, learning to play guitar by trying to play with
| SY guitar tunings doesn't make it any easier. SY was a huge
| influence on my formative years.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20231026153006/https://www.nytim...
| jkern wrote:
| I enjoy Sonic Youth a fair bit, but in the majority of cases find
| Thurston Moore completely uncompelling as a singer.
| slibhb wrote:
| Same, but I like Kim Gordon's voice
| jkern wrote:
| Totally agree. Kim's vocals are usually way more interesting
| danieldk wrote:
| Lee songs are sparse, but also great!
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| Love his singing on Dinosaur Jr's "Little Fury Things"
| nativespecies wrote:
| Some of the worst lyrics in the biz for sure
| justinator wrote:
| Teenage Riot is a masterpiece.
|
| _Looking for a ride to your secret location_
|
| _Where the kids are setting up a free-speed nation for you_
|
| _Got a foghorn and a drum and a hammer that 's rockin'_
|
| _And a cord and a pedal and a lock, that 'll do me for now_
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| The older I get, and the more my knowledge of poetry has
| expanded, the more turned off I am by the doggerel that most
| popular-music lyrics are. My rock listening is increasingly
| limited to shoegaze, a genre where the vocals get so
| submerged in the mix, you can't even make out the words and
| nothing hinders you from enjoying the pure sound.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| I'm the exact opposite, I find Kim absolutely grating a nerve
| in almost all the songs where she's the primary singer.
| Thurston has a laid back sound that fits many of the tracks
| really well imo.
|
| That said, I find I tend to either absolutely love or (more
| likely hate) their stuff in general. Not a big fan of random
| noise, though I can somewhat appreciate how the experimentation
| influenced others.
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| "Completely uncompelling" can be a virtue. One of the factors
| that makes New Order such a peerless band is Bernard Sumner's
| unaffected, almost amateurish singing.
| salynchnew wrote:
| An amazing band that got more amazing over time.
|
| I got to talk to Jim O'Rourke after a show of their in Lexington
| and he was incredibly patient and kind. Definitely a lifetime
| "going to shows" highlight for me.
| shautvast wrote:
| >>For Thurston Moore, a driving force in the important art-noise
| band Sonic Youth, the epiphany was "Louie Louie," the
| indecipherable-at-any-speed single by the Kingsmen.
|
| Haha, I named my dog after that song, or was it Richard Berry's
| original, or all the other covers?
| beepbooptheory wrote:
| My earliest memory of what has become modern, streaming video
| apps was Google Video (I think that's what it was called). It was
| before they bought youtube.
|
| I very clearly remember searching for "Sonic Youth" on it and
| getting maybe less than a dozen results, but one of them was this
| indie documentary/tour-video called "1993: The year punk broke,"
| which is about Nirvana and SY touring together through europe.
|
| Its a really fun little movie, but mainly it felt absolutely huge
| to "discover" it like that. Its hard to imagine these days that
| you could search for _anything_ and not get, at least, thousands
| of results. Back then being a hipster about music really felt
| like a special club, like some special minority of people drawn
| together by taste, and the internet as it was reflected that
| nicely.
|
| Embarrassed now to remember moments where I tried to convince my
| friends of how good and important Sonic Youth, Neutral Milk
| Hotel, and the Pixies were, even if they hadn't heard of them;
| trying to quote Pitchfork and AllMusic reviews to make my point.
| crispyambulance wrote:
| I saw them live circa 1988-ish around the time of Daydream
| Nation.
|
| They've all been super creative. Thurston Moore and Kim Gordon
| and also Lee Ranaldo have had interesting side projects. I very
| much was interested in their noise stuff. Moore collaborated once
| with Borbetomagus. And Ranaldo did a lot of sound experiments.
|
| I did get the impression that they were aiming for a much wider
| audience in the late 80's and early 90's, much like the Pixies,
| and also like the Pixies it never seemed to pan out-- but it was
| close.
|
| Moore has done some television host stuff 20 years back, "Sonic
| Cinema". He definitely has a knack for that-- introducing films
| and interviewing artists, etc.
| gdubs wrote:
| Met Thurston when he came to Bard College back in the early 00s.
| He did a small poetry thing and had brought his electric guitar
| and an amp and at the end of his reading he shredded for us for a
| bit. Then he hung out afterwards for a while. Super chill dude.
|
| Sonic Youth is such an interesting group because they're _hugely_
| influential, like the Pixies, among musicians -- and yet for as
| famous as they became, Nirvana really took the genre mainstream.
| Not that Nirvana was necessarily super happy about that.
| thefaux wrote:
| My favorite Thurston Moore sample:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0FoVuUYh4w
| themark wrote:
| I had their Sonic Nurse facemask during covid. It was a kool
| thing.
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