[HN Gopher] 22-year-old builds chips in his parents' garage (2022)
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       22-year-old builds chips in his parents' garage (2022)
        
       Author : pabs3
       Score  : 254 points
       Date   : 2023-10-20 09:34 UTC (2 days ago)
        
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       | barelyauser wrote:
       | I have a feeling that making chips at home will require the
       | ditching of silicon based technology. Yes, this will be
       | accompanied by performance loss. Perhaps organic semiconductors
       | have less complicated processes. Or techniques like molecular
       | self assembly, nano imprinting, etc.
        
         | jstanley wrote:
         | Yes, perhaps making electronics out of self-assembling
         | molecules is a less complicated process than photolithography.
        
         | vitiral wrote:
         | Thin film lithography is the most promising IMO. Low
         | temperature and can be done on glass instead of purified
         | silicone.
        
       | t0e wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/iGei9
        
       | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
       | It really is wild what you can do in your garage these days.
       | Since the early 2010's there has been a true revolution in this
       | space that has only accelerated over the last few years. I have
       | an injection molding machine that I built in my garage for less
       | than $1500 USD that has a 3 cubic inch injection volume, able to
       | make a large variety of plastic components at small production
       | scale using a mold I printed from my $500 USD resin printer. A
       | guy I met at the maker space has a literal pick and place and
       | wave soldering machine in his garage and he is etching wafers on
       | his desktop CNC. Hardware has never been more accessible.
       | 
       | Hardware is still really hard. But it's definitely something
       | someone with a software salary can bootstrap in their garage
       | these days. Especially because I can go to JLCPCB and get some
       | reasonably complex fully assembled prototype boards shipped to me
       | in a week or two for $5-20 USD per unit. Ridiculously nice
        
         | brailsafe wrote:
         | I wonder where I could get the salary needed to have a garage,
         | seems like that's the important bit ;)
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | Live somewhere cheaper and you can make enough to have a
           | garage by painting houses or mowing lawns.
        
             | OccamsMirror wrote:
             | Not in Australia. Even rural is expensive.
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | Leave Australia :-)
        
               | 111111101101 wrote:
               | This is the answer. Young people especially need to
               | realise that this country doesn't want them.
        
               | dottjt wrote:
               | Interestingly, as a young Australian, I've thought about
               | this a lot and I genuinely struggle to find a better
               | country to live in.
               | 
               | We have our share of problems, but compared to the
               | problems of other countries, I can't help but feel
               | they're significantly less.
               | 
               | A large part of it being how isolated we are from the
               | rest of the world and all the benefits that provides. Not
               | to mention the low population density of the country as a
               | whole.
        
               | flask_manager wrote:
               | It really depends what specific circumstances you are
               | comparing. If you are looking at trades, low skill full
               | time, or casual work, I dont think there is a better
               | place to be. If you are comparing the lifestyle available
               | from a full time skilled job (tech especially) its
               | honestly not great.
               | 
               | Work anywhere in Asia, and while your wage may be lower,
               | what you get for it goes a whole lot further. Restaurants
               | are a focus, but things like a regular cleaner, doorman,
               | club memberships are a whole lot more accessible. Things
               | that are really only available in Australia to
               | generational wealth these days, are available to skilled
               | employees.
               | 
               | Work in western Europe, and the wages are slightly
               | higher, and the cost of living is slightly lower; however
               | the expectation for work-life balance is far better. 38hr
               | weeks are very strict, with an expectation of flex time
               | and time in lieu. with more weeks off, and better access
               | to things like parental leave and study accommodations.
               | 
               | People make poor comparisons to America, because its a
               | very hard thing to generalize. From my personal
               | experience as a skilled full time worker, there is not
               | one metric where Australia is a clear winner, and many
               | where its far behind. The top end of healthcare is better
               | in the USA, and if you factor in the lower taxes cheaper
               | too. Crime statistics are worse, but localized to places
               | I have no reason to go... I would say that USA as country
               | is worse, but if you only look at the experience of
               | someone who already has a skilled job, then you come out
               | far ahead in the states.
        
               | dottjt wrote:
               | I would have to disagree about the full time skilled job
               | comment.
               | 
               | I work remotely for a tech company and to say that you
               | can barely work in Australia whilst earning a very decent
               | salary, is an understatement. 2 - 3 hours a day, at most
               | (at least in tech). Some days you don't even have to do
               | anything. And this is most large companies (although it
               | depends on your rank).
               | 
               | This factor alone makes Australia an amazing place to
               | live, excluding all the other reasons to live here.
               | 
               | Compared to America and Asia, if I have to work 3-4 times
               | harder than I currently am, what am I actually gaining?
               | I'm just losing time to live the life I truly want. No
               | thank you.
        
               | sgt wrote:
               | Come here to South Africa. In fact a lot of South African
               | "expats" are moving back. Many, many places are extremely
               | decent and lifestyle can be excellent.
        
               | dottjt wrote:
               | It could just be the media, but I've heard nothing but
               | terrible things about South Africa.
               | 
               | Failing government. Constant crime. Water shortages.
               | Power blackouts. Is it perhaps different if you're living
               | in a gated community?
        
               | sgt wrote:
               | Depends where you live. I don't live in a gated community
               | and I am not affected directly by crime. Power blackouts
               | is called loadshedding and has to do with capacity. Get
               | solar and batteries and you will be immune to that. It's
               | being fixed too.
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | > We have our share of problems, but compared to the
               | problems of other countries, I can't help but feel
               | they're significantly less
               | 
               | Covid camps and police take down for people jogging
               | without masks did not convince you to move? I guess
               | nothing will
        
               | kiwih wrote:
               | How about the following list of 10 cities/towns in
               | Australia with property around 100-300k AUD?
               | 
               | https://www.mpamag.com/au/mortgage-industry/guides/what-
               | are-...
        
               | roganartu wrote:
               | The first town on the list is a place famous for building
               | houses underground due to the heat on the surface being
               | too extreme. It's also in the middle of nowhere.
               | 
               | The rest are country towns, not suburban ones. Where you
               | need to drive hours to get to anything approaching what
               | you might think of as "downtown", and even then there's
               | not gonna be a lot there.
               | 
               | The reality in Australia is that the vast majority of the
               | population lives within 100km of the east coast. It's not
               | like America where there are literally thousands of
               | decent-sized small towns (tens of thousands of people),
               | there just isn't enough population for that. Almost half
               | the population lives in two cities (Melbourne and Sydney)
               | and neither of these are affordable places no matter how
               | far out into the suburbs you go.
        
               | catmanjan wrote:
               | Good luck painting houses and mowing lawns in Coober Pedy
               | haha
        
               | stephen_g wrote:
               | If you work remotely (but don't need a great internet
               | connection to do so), don't mind having absolutely
               | minimal amenities, cultural activities (apart from a few
               | tourist traps), international airports etc. within a day
               | or two's drive... then sure.
               | 
               | Usually these places are cheap because there is little
               | economy (so few jobs), so most of the even slightly
               | ambitious youth escape to the cities or larger towns in
               | the area, which leaves them with 'interesting'
               | demographics.
               | 
               | This is an interesting inversion actually, because things
               | like meth and then the associated crime are much more of
               | a problem in the country than the cities here, which is
               | kind of the opposite of what you hear about the cities
               | being dangerous in places like the US.
        
               | _kb wrote:
               | Here's a write up of number #4:
               | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-18/tara-isolated-
               | rural-b.... There's a reason for that pricing.
        
               | femto wrote:
               | #3 Port Pirie is (in)famous for its lead contamination
               | [1].
               | 
               | #5 Queenstown is also contaminated [2]. It's an
               | interesting place to visit, as the surrounds look like
               | the moon [3], since the contamination stop anything from
               | growing.
               | 
               | The rest could be nice?
               | 
               | [1] https://theconversation.com/lead-poisoning-of-port-
               | pirie-chi...
               | 
               | [2] https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/tasmanian-lakes-
               | metal-c...
               | 
               | [3] https://www.google.com/search?q=queenstown+moonscape&
               | tbm=isc...
        
               | _kb wrote:
               | # 9 Charleville - I've not lived there, but I've visited.
               | For a sense of the remoteness, when the International
               | Space Station passes overhead, it's twice as close as the
               | nearest major city.
        
               | femto wrote:
               | Sounds like astronomy heaven.
        
               | SturgeonsLaw wrote:
               | Tara, QLD, is where people who want to be forgotten go to
               | disappear. There are off grid shanty towns in the area,
               | one of which was the site of a fatal ambushing of police
               | officers last year.
               | 
               | https://inqld.com.au/insights/2022/12/14/police-shooting-
               | tra...
               | 
               | There's a reason these places are cheap.
        
               | ChainOfFools wrote:
               | Recently moved into a four-bedroom home in a moderately
               | desirable suburb of Los Angeles. I myself work in tech
               | field and my spouse is university faculty. Our subdiv is
               | a large tract of homes built 15-25 years ago, all in the
               | mid six figures to just a hair over seven.
               | 
               | At least three of the neighbors within sight of my own
               | house are some sort of residential construction or
               | property trade contractor. Two are public school
               | teachers. At least one paints houses for a living. It is
               | apparently totally possible to work a trade and live a
               | recently comfortable lifestyle. I'm not saying it's easy,
               | and I'm not saying that there is a straightforward path
               | to break in to that lifestyle but it is evidently more
               | than abundantly possible.
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | Most tradespeople I know can't afford "hair over seven"
               | figures for a home. Everyone in your neighborhood is
               | house poor. They are banking on equity. They had a
               | sizable upfront down payment.
               | 
               | Like I said, all the tradespeople I know are struggling
               | with lower 6, much less hair over 7.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | But do you work in the trades in places where the median
               | home is $800k? Trade wages are probably better in socal.
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | They do. Median home value here is $950k. All of my
               | trades friends are house poor and asking family for
               | assistance.
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | I suspect the key to that success is having bought in
               | before the house prices significantly increased.
        
               | dukeyukey wrote:
               | I know tradies with massive houses and smallholdings
               | within 50 miles of London. I've also lived with tradies
               | in a 4-person semi-legal HMO.
               | 
               | The error bars here are huge.
        
               | _fizz_buzz_ wrote:
               | I don't quite get why Australia is so expensive. It's
               | basically all empty land (bigger than the EU and the
               | population of the Netherlands). Shouldn't it be dirt
               | cheap?
        
               | literalAardvark wrote:
               | The bits that aren't a desert and people want to live in
               | are actually fairly populated.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | Honestly the big stark difference between Australia and
               | the US seems to be immigration. There might be a
               | fundamental lack of a labor pool that might have been
               | building out comparable infrastructure and housing supply
               | that we see in similarly geographic sized US.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Other options:
           | 
           | 1. Find a job where you have a workspace or a lab to tinker
           | in.
           | 
           | 2. Find a makerspace/hackerspace in your neighborhood.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | Simple, just inherit a house with a garage :P
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | Indeed. The hardest part these days is getting access to a
         | garage.
        
           | chocolatelab82 wrote:
           | I store a lot of crap in my garage.
        
           | ccorcos wrote:
           | I'm constantly surprised how tech folks seem to undervalue
           | the suburbs.
        
             | dleslie wrote:
             | Most American suburbs are awful if you enjoy any sort of
             | regular physical activity, and simply prefer to walk to the
             | market instead of drive.
             | 
             | They're amazing if you love sitting in traffic.
        
               | resonious wrote:
               | Sounds like they're also good if you want a garage to
               | tinker in!
        
               | trimethylpurine wrote:
               | I'm in a suburb. Not an expensive one. Downtown is a 20
               | minute drive in light traffic. Within a 10 minute walk
               | there are office buildings, grocery stores, shopping
               | mall, gyms, parks, hiking and biking trails, etc. There
               | are many cities to choose from; some are better planned
               | than others. Based on your comment I would guess that
               | you've opted to live in one of the "cool" cities in
               | America.
        
               | xvedejas wrote:
               | That you need to drive to downtown suggests you might not
               | have much garage space after all?
        
               | saulpw wrote:
               | No one parks in the garage in the suburbs :) They either
               | park in the driveway or on the street, both of which have
               | ample room to store vehicles.
        
               | checkyoursudo wrote:
               | I tried parking in my garage for a while, but the car
               | took up too much valuable space.
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | This is it. My garage is full of kid's stuff. I don't
               | have a backyard for a shed, plus my landlords installed
               | shelving on all three sides, some not above car roof
               | level.
               | 
               | If we want to park a car in there, it's about an hour of
               | moving stuff out of the way. I stand at the back as a
               | spotter while my wife drives at me. Once she hit me, she
               | turns the car off and climbs out through the back seat. I
               | then climb over the roof of the car.
               | 
               | I wish I was making this up. Glad it's 12 years old with
               | no sun roof. I don't have to feel bad about sliding over
               | it.
        
               | gautamcgoel wrote:
               | Which city are you in?
        
               | saurik wrote:
               | If we knew, we might all move there and ruin it ;P.
        
               | CodeNest wrote:
               | hahahaha :)
        
               | trimethylpurine wrote:
               | Exactly.
        
               | assimpleaspossi wrote:
               | Was going to say the same. I have never lived in a house
               | that did not have a garage.
        
               | tjrgergw wrote:
               | Would you please share which city is this, that has
               | everything within 10 minute walk in its suburbs?
               | 
               | I'm a European who's lived in an "American downtown"
               | because I was told the suburbs are horrible, but what
               | you're describing sounds great.
        
               | xw3098 wrote:
               | Price is relative. That could be Los Altos, California.
               | Which is very nice, walkable with garages, great parks
               | and outdoors, but not what most people would call
               | affordable. :)
        
               | trimethylpurine wrote:
               | I would argue that it's objectively cheaper to live in
               | the suburbs. And I can assert with confidence that
               | $100/mo in HOA fees provides walkable parks, trails,
               | pools, gyms, tennis courts, basketball courts, etc. I
               | vote on the financial management of all these things so I
               | can be sure they are provided by that amount of money,
               | objectively. Major builders do suburbs like this one
               | across the country. And they make a killing managing them
               | too.
               | 
               | Where are you? SF? SD? NY? Miami? You're paying a premium
               | for the right to brag about it. Not for the amenities.
        
               | acheron wrote:
               | > because I was told the suburbs are horrible
               | 
               | Probably shouldn't be taking advice from Reddit.
        
               | carom wrote:
               | Columbia, MD was one of the earlier planned suburbs. Each
               | neighborhood has a grocery store. Worth looking at.
        
               | trimethylpurine wrote:
               | I won't. But I'm basically describing the entire USA
               | except the coasts, and a few major cities in between. For
               | perspective, houses in SF sell for 10x the value per
               | square foot compared with my neighborhood. And I'm not
               | remotely in the cheapest place in the country. America is
               | big. Look around. There is a LOT of space in the middle.
        
               | jhatemyjob wrote:
               | Silicon Valley is great for running and biking. Just look
               | at Rancho San Antonio for example.
        
               | dottjt wrote:
               | I think the key is to have everything delivered to you.
               | Once you figure that out, suburbs are great.
               | 
               | Of course, it's not equivalent to being able to walk to
               | places, but I feel the pros outweigh the cons in terms of
               | what you do get from the suburbs.
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | >"I think the key is to have everything delivered to
               | you."
               | 
               | This is why we can't have nice things. We simply can't
               | rely on a class of workers to dote on us simply because
               | we fancy living in the burbs. The amount of waste just so
               | you can get your instacart. The reality is near 8%
               | mortgages have put suburbs with garages out of reach for
               | almost everyone without a trust fund or selling their
               | startup.
        
               | dbtc wrote:
               | What if robots did it?
        
               | jeffreygoesto wrote:
               | Worse. The main damage is done building things and robots
               | have a much higher total cost of being developed and
               | built.
        
               | mensetmanusman wrote:
               | True to first order, not to second. Economy of scale
               | making robots cheaper would dramatically improve
               | economies and the environment.
               | 
               | Simple example would be to reduce the scale up and
               | install cost of clean energy.
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | If we had pick and pack robots and delivery drones that
               | were powered by solar fields and alternative energy, I
               | would say that's about as close to carbon neutral
               | logistics as we can get. Trucking and freight are still
               | exorbitantly polluting but the heavy "last mile"
               | pollution problem would be traded with increased overhead
               | air traffic. The reality is: a self driving car with a
               | delivery robot is probably going to be our answer in
               | 2040.
        
               | vasco wrote:
               | > We simply can't rely on a class of workers to dote on
               | us simply because we fancy living in the burbs
               | 
               | You make zero sense. Going to the grocery store involves
               | the same workers helping you pay for gas and selling you
               | groceries, or cooking your meals. Are you a recluse that
               | interacts with zero workers? Who in their right mind
               | calls someone else out for using a regular service? You'd
               | prefer those people to not have jobs surely.
        
               | _visgean wrote:
               | Its about efficiency, a grocery store will require one
               | large supply truck. Supplying everyone to their home
               | requires way more people and energy.
        
               | mewpmewp2 wrote:
               | Wouldn't delivery be more efficient than people not
               | practiced at logistics delivering thinga to their homes
               | back and forth themselves?
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | Possibly if that last mile delivery was carried out by
               | people who were also practiced in logistics. This is
               | never the case. It's better for you to find a means of
               | transportation to get your staples of living than to pay
               | someone else to use any means of transportation to
               | provide you your bananas.
               | 
               | The planet can't take any more "conveniences" on our
               | behalf. We need to find a more efficient way of
               | delivering goods and getting our goods. Throwing your
               | hands up and saying "I'll just get everything delivered"
               | is about the worst option you can do from a logistics
               | perspective to reduce carbon.
        
               | vasco wrote:
               | There's no end to that game of efficiency. You end up
               | with either ascetic monk life people or asking for
               | population reduction measures.
               | 
               | If you're annoyed about low efficiency of ordering food,
               | what do you think of vacation traveling, hobbies, any
               | sort of vehicles etc. Most efficiency would be to have no
               | humans with our superfluous wants and needs. Otherwise
               | you're just shaming others for doing things you happen
               | not to like, while forgetting all the useless things you
               | do. Surely you have done consumist purchases that weren't
               | required for your immediate survival or health
               | preservation before.
        
               | refurb wrote:
               | What's the difference between delivery in the city versus
               | the suburbs? Does less distance make it ok?
        
               | spicymapotofu wrote:
               | Yes, last mile shipping takes up an inordinate amount of
               | energy.
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | When I get some goods delivered in the city, it's via
               | bike messenger. When I get goods delivered via suburbs,
               | it's via F-150s.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | There are plenty of suburbs where you can also walk to
               | places.
        
               | refurb wrote:
               | This is a very black and white view of the suburbs.
               | 
               | I would call the entire peninsula from SF to San Jose one
               | big suburb.
               | 
               | Hell, everything West of Gough St in SF is pretty suburb-
               | like: mostly residential, a few shopping streets and no
               | offices.
               | 
               | Despite that there are plenty of areas that are very
               | walkable, including public transportation and shopping
               | for daily needs.
               | 
               | Not every suburb looks like a cluster of single family
               | homes with nothing else within 10 miles.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | Plenty of suburbs are walkable. I live in one with three
               | grocery stores and a farmers market in walking distance.
        
             | Blackthorn wrote:
             | Prices in the suburbs aren't any better.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | _American_ tech folks. In my part of the world, you either
             | have good access to civilization, or your own land. Having
             | both at the same time (buying land close enough to a major
             | city) is prohibitively expensive.
        
             | hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
             | I like the "concrete suburbs" we have here in Finland. I
             | get why people born here don't have the highest opinion of
             | them, but something about seeing identical 8-story high
             | unadorned buildings for several blocks in a row, separated
             | by little patches of park and forest sets me at ease. It
             | feels like even if I were to lose my job I would still be
             | able to pay rent here. Maybe it comes from growing up in an
             | American city and seeing just how brutal the rent race can
             | get firsthand.
        
             | yterdy wrote:
             | Suburbs aren't defined by having personal space. That can
             | be achieved in cities and small towns with in-fill
             | development of high square-footage apartments, n-plexes,
             | and townhouses, or collective workspaces. The suburbs that
             | people complain about are car-centric and are generally
             | underfunded in the long-term, putting significant burdens
             | on municipal and state finances for things like
             | infrastructure maintenance (roads, sewers, etc.). Every
             | suburban garage/city parking space pair is a half-dozen
             | kids without up-to-date science textbooks and equipment.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | Plenty of car centric suburbs do fine with the budget
               | too. You got suburbs in california where homes are $2m.
               | They aren't hurting for road budget. High school class
               | offerings in such a district might look downright
               | collegiate from the additional funding the parents raise
               | for the local school.
        
               | yterdy wrote:
               | There are several contentious aspects to this
               | characterization:
               | 
               | 1) California is a noted outlier. The tax base/road
               | budget ratio does not scale well to the rest of the
               | country.
               | 
               | 2) The wealth of affluent suburbs is driven by the cities
               | they surround. The cities generate enough wealth to
               | nominally support the market rate labor that keep them
               | running AND the professional/managerial class that cut
               | and run.
               | 
               | 3) The top quintile or two of earners are likelier to
               | live in newer developments, where the cost of maintenance
               | has not built up yet. As regions become older and less
               | desirable, the affluent leave and are replaced by the
               | less-so, just as replacement costs come due. This model
               | is a burden on the state and national levels because it's
               | so prevalent.
               | 
               | If, instead, the model were to have most people living
               | were their wealth was generated - and therefore have
               | amenities scale to means more closely - you would have
               | fewer extremely wealthy individuals and families but a
               | more sustainable and equitable society. I know this is
               | anathema to many, who value getting ahead over getting
               | together.
        
           | waveBidder wrote:
           | could we not make every post about housing please?
        
           | EliRivers wrote:
           | On that thread, his garage is larger than the entire space I
           | rented for living in when I was his age.
           | 
           | But the point I'm going on to make isn't just about how
           | stupid the cost of housing is; it's that the high cost of
           | housing comes with extra costs that we might not even see.
           | 
           | How many people would be doing all sorts of neat things, some
           | of which would genuinely bloom into real advances and ideas
           | and genuine new wealth (by which I don't just mean an income;
           | I mean the creation of wealth) if only they could afford some
           | goddamn space in which to do it, without having to move so
           | far from the existing life they have that pays the bills and
           | keeps them alive and sane (by which I mean to suggest that
           | not everyone has the luxury of moving to where there is
           | cheaper space, if their job and support networks won't move
           | too).
        
             | vasco wrote:
             | > How many people would be doing all sorts of neat things,
             | 
             | Not many, same distribution would apply to that population.
             | Most would scroll tiktok in a larger house.
        
               | thalassophobia wrote:
               | Yes, but more creative people would be making something
               | new, even if most would use it for nothing. No matter the
               | amount of additional innovators, the total would still be
               | bigger than it is now.
        
               | Aerbil313 wrote:
               | Do you imply creative people are a special breed who are
               | immune to attention engineering?
        
               | a_humean wrote:
               | They are just saying that if you assume this following:
               | 
               | * There is a rough fixed % of people that are capable of
               | doing interesting things and maybe useful things
               | 
               | * There are minimum levels of resources, time, and
               | comfort that enables you to do interesting things
               | 
               | * The current population that enjoys those resources
               | isn't actually that different from the population at
               | large in terms of that %
               | 
               | Assuming all of that, if you increased the welfare of the
               | entire population to that minimum level (would be nice to
               | do this anyway) then the absolute number of people doing
               | interesting and maybe useful things would increase. I
               | would say that most of human history and esp the past few
               | hundred years has probably proven that to be true.
               | 
               | It is pretty clear from the photos that this young man is
               | very fortunate to have well off and supportive parents.
               | Very few working age adults in full time employment could
               | afford the things shown in those photos let alone someone
               | still in education.
        
               | xw3098 wrote:
               | You should read this shorty story:
               | 
               | https://www.abelard.org/asimov.php
        
               | fuzzfactor wrote:
               | Excellent choice.
               | 
               | Asimov in the 1950's was quite a visionary. I always
               | liked this.
               | 
               | But I never heard him referred to as "shorty" before ;)
               | 
               | Don't want to be a spoiler but in his visions for an
               | increasingly advanced technological future once the 21st
               | century would arrive, here the dystopian elements that
               | had unfortunately accrued had to be fed to an
               | increasingly conformist society as a utopia instead. No
               | surprise considering the attitude during the Cold War.
               | While the outliers having the true creative potential
               | were subjected to an artificially dystopian environment
               | by comparison, from which only the most-ambitious few
               | would have to break out of on their own accord, against
               | all odds, motivated only by their own committment, to
               | take their rightful place as professionals.
               | 
               | Didn't have to wait until the 65th century to make
               | significant progress in this direction.
               | 
               | >It is pretty clear from the photos that this young man
               | is very fortunate to have well off and supportive
               | parents.
               | 
               | Good observation, and maybe that's about all that's going
               | to be having such an early start for some time to come
               | now. But we don't need photos to be well aware he is
               | vastly outnumbered by tons of more fortunate youngsters
               | who have accomplished absolutely nothing at that age, if
               | not perpetrated destructive efforts instead. Photos of
               | their "accomplishments" outnumber this type of posting a
               | million to one.
        
               | FooBarBizBazz wrote:
               | Excellent phrase, "attention engineering".
               | 
               | Related, somebody referred recently to the device that
               | plays YouTube as the "depression box", because that's
               | what it creates in short order: "I am incapable of
               | anything but scrolling". Yup: "Depression box."
        
               | RetroTechie wrote:
               | On a more practical note: people lifted out of poverty
               | that become innovators, are (more) likely to do so in a
               | frugal manner. Because make do with limited resources was
               | spoonfed from early age.
               | 
               | Read: they could make for some very cost-effective
               | innovation.
               | 
               | Lifting other people out of poverty that _don 't_ become
               | innovators, would be 'bycatch' from that p.o.v. But still
               | a worthwhile goal.
        
               | Gud wrote:
               | Most would be, but that 0.01% are the ones pushing
               | humanity forward. Let's figure out how to give them the
               | resources.
               | 
               | And how do you know most/many people aren't spending
               | their times scrolling tiktok because they don't have the
               | resources to do something more worthwhile?
        
               | vasco wrote:
               | > And how do you know most/many people aren't spending
               | their times scrolling tiktok because they don't have the
               | resources to do something more worthwhile?
               | 
               | Because if that was it, most rich people, rich kids would
               | be all doing crazy science experiments and advancing
               | knowledge. But turns out they don't.
        
               | Gud wrote:
               | It's also plausible todays rich kids are descendants of
               | people who have optimized their lives for making money. I
               | doubt such parents make the best role models for aspiring
               | scientists.
               | 
               | It's possible that a society that has a more prosperous
               | general population will produce more successful
               | scientists.
        
               | dahart wrote:
               | You have a source for that claim? Patents are absolutely
               | dominated by people with PhDs, which is highly correlated
               | with family income.
               | 
               | https://www.hamiltonproject.org/publication/economic-
               | fact/el...
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | You've just put me in mind of an different quote about
             | impoverished geniuses:
             | 
             | """I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and
             | convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty
             | that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton
             | fields and sweatshops.""" - Stephen Jay Gould, The Panda's
             | Thumb: More Reflections in Natural History, 1980
             | 
             | World population has increased 60% since then, while
             | extreme poverty decreased 66% in absolute (not relative)
             | terms.
             | 
             | So, what I think would happen with more space, is that we
             | would find the next limit, while mistaking the growth that
             | improved conditions lead to as the natural state of
             | affairs.
        
             | hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
             | If you want to compromise on neither location nor space,
             | your only real option is to build upwards. Tall residential
             | skyscrapers are the only way.
             | 
             | Personally I'm fine with that, but I get why people might
             | have an aesthetic issue with it. They're of course allowed
             | to compromise on one of the other 2 points to get a better
             | looking neighborhood if they want.
        
               | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
               | I'd love to put a CNC mill there, but my apartment
               | building doesn't let me use my parking space for anything
               | except a car, unfortunately. I think that is quite
               | common. :(
        
             | saidinesh5 wrote:
             | > if only they could afford some goddamn space in which to
             | do it...
             | 
             | It doesn't even have to be own space... just places like
             | repair shops that let you hang around, maker/hacker spaces
             | would go a long way.
             | 
             | I learned / had so much fun just hanging out at
             | "Radio"(/TV/Tape recorder) Repair shops when I was a kid.
             | Of course most of things i built back there were silly
             | things like lights for my bicycle, longer earphone wires
             | etc... But it is a valuable experience for me.
        
               | supportengineer wrote:
               | That used to be in high schools and it was called "shop
               | class".
        
             | fuzzfactor wrote:
             | Back in the early 1970's at the university I used to hang
             | out in the rapidly developing IC fab shop with a fellow
             | student who was an EE major. It was a unique time when
             | individual innovation was at its highest point, and
             | crushing financial pressure nationwide was only beginning
             | to force the downward trend since then.
             | 
             | This was pretty interesting to me as a chemist, and there
             | were even more parallels once I went to work for a company
             | specializing in emerging chemicals, where unending
             | experimentation and innovation was essential to bring
             | yields up to tolerable levels from starting points which
             | were barely feasible. Similar to emerging semiconductor
             | processes.
             | 
             | With all the effort Zeloof has put in, apparently single-
             | handedly for the most part, in his garage he does have what
             | looks like a more advanced facility now than they had then.
             | With the ability to make repairs and do maintenance on the
             | comercially available equipment of the time, to a degree
             | and with determination that the leading professors did not
             | even usually possess.
             | 
             | This is the kind of person that needs to be protected from
             | potential disasters that could derail his continuous
             | progress, especially with such an early head-start.
             | 
             | Very much of an outlier, but there are uncountable others
             | who have always had to wait for the least bit of
             | opportunity which never arose in any realistic way.
        
             | SubiculumCode wrote:
             | Remote work for the win. The older I get, the less I care
             | about having a large variety of places to eat and places to
             | go (i.e. city living) and the more I wish for some basic
             | space to do the things I want to do. Be it a shop/shed/or
             | generous garage (without a car in it I'm fine with my car
             | suffering from California sunshine).
        
             | rolph wrote:
             | some people live a very industrial lifestyle, in a studio
             | garage, with a couch and kitchen in the corner.
        
             | dukeyukey wrote:
             | Going by the photos on that article, the garage is bigger
             | than the 500sqft ex-council flat I rent with my girlfriend,
             | for the equivalent of $2k/month, in London.
        
           | tjrgergw wrote:
           | Oh man such a funny joke. It's funny because it's true.
           | 
           | That said, as a European the meme of "they started in their
           | garage" always sounded so American. Maybe that's what Europe
           | is lacking in terms of entrepreneurship - garages.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Yes, but also no. The US has a basic fluidity of business.
             | You can build things at home (in your garage, if you have
             | one) and try to sell them and establish a formal business
             | later, if the business justifies the process. For a one
             | person business, there's not really a lot of requirements
             | to formalize a sole proprietor business either: often a
             | local business license (which is mostly guaranteed issue
             | and just a tax collection point), a 'doing business as'
             | filing if not using the person's name, and obtaining a tax
             | id if needed (the IRS will issue one online in minutes, as
             | I understand it), hiring people comes with more
             | requirements.
             | 
             | Being able to start small and informally allows many more
             | businesses to start.
        
               | dukeyukey wrote:
               | Worth pointing out the same is true in other countries -
               | in the UK, a sole trader business doesn't need to notify
               | the government they exist at all until tax return time.
        
           | devmor wrote:
           | Makerspaces are a godsend. I have 24/7 access to one for only
           | $75/mo.
           | 
           | Not only do I host my own machinery there, but I have access
           | to others' and communal appliances _and_ training on how to
           | use them (as long as schedules line up).
        
           | iancmceachern wrote:
           | In California you could totally build an advanced New piece
           | of technology like a new IC machine or process in way less
           | time than you could build a simple permitted barn.
        
         | hoc wrote:
         | The main issue I have with all that is that one could have
         | had/home-built most of that in the 80s already (except for the
         | resins).
         | 
         | So in a way this all is more about online orders as well as
         | global access and visibility than about the actual tech.
         | 
         | Wasted decades in a way. Guess we needed to build the interwebs
         | first.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | What would you have used in the 80s to make molds?
        
             | hoc wrote:
             | I still see that part as the most complicated and work-
             | intensive in a small/home setting. I've been looking at
             | ways, effort and prices for several years now and I'm still
             | split between resin plus injection or just resin prints.
             | And I am still end up with outsourcing as the result. But
             | I'd really like to own that process... frustrating.
             | 
             | If anyone has a really feasible/well working solution for
             | enclosures etc. please post them :)
             | 
             | That said, while I excluded the molding part explicitly,
             | since I thought about CNC milling, pick /place and other
             | computer-cobtrolled multi-axis applications, I think one
             | could have used CNC and/or some kind of "sand" baking
             | (negative) appoach. Not sure what kind of hard wood
             | solutions might also have worked as some kind of medium for
             | subtractive designing the negative for a small production
             | run.
             | 
             | Still not something I would see as easily implementable.
             | But I also have no lazy solution with nice results today.
             | E.g. for implementing display windows some kind of
             | professionally color-coated clear case seems the way to go
             | to get to something that ressembles current standards
             | (always the main problem, anyway). Hard to do that with
             | limited space and without a professional absorber solution.
        
         | xyzzy123 wrote:
         | > he is etching wafers on his desktop CNC
         | 
         | Wait do you mean etching wafers, or milling PCBs? One of those
         | things you listed is not like the others.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | Given the linked article is about a 22 year old making a
           | 1,500 transistor IC, _etching wafers_ for a 40 year old with
           | a FAANG salary doesn 't seem that far fetched!
           | 
           | It'd have to be a really clean garage tho
        
             | georgeburdell wrote:
             | I think the CNC part is what's interesting. A wet etch, or
             | even a plasma etcher, is conceivable in a garage and are
             | the traditional tools of the trade.
        
           | stephen_g wrote:
           | I assumed that they must have meant milling PCBs, because the
           | only kind of "cnc-ish" way of manipulating things on wafers I
           | can think of would be atomic manipulation with a scanning
           | tunnelling microscope, which really doesn't seem likely!
        
         | AussieWog93 wrote:
         | May I ask how you do this, specifically? What machine do you
         | use for injection molding, and how do you make the moulds?
         | 
         | Very interested in doing this myself.
         | 
         | (Also interested in specific recommendations for a desktop pick
         | n place if anyone has some)
        
           | 15155 wrote:
           | https://www.smallsmt.biz/products/
           | 
           | or any similar Shenzhen special. Buy bigger over smaller.
           | 
           | Buy, don't build. There will be a handful of recommendations
           | for the Opulo Lumen/OpenPNP: avoid them. Avoid everything but
           | ballscrew designs: you will spend an annoying amount of time
           | trying to calibrate a belt-driven design and calibration will
           | never stick.
           | 
           | Please, do not make the mistake I did: get something with CL
           | feeders, make this investment. Drag feeders are not good -
           | they are slow and the stylus will violently shake parts out
           | of reels (or you'll spend time calibrating it to try and
           | avoid this issue - don't waste the time.) Get something that
           | can do 0201, even if you don't use it.
           | 
           | Ideally, get something that uses a separate, commodity host
           | machine.
        
             | simultsop wrote:
             | I thought the entire plan of independence is building
             | yourself and not buying at all.
        
               | 15155 wrote:
               | Independence is having the knowledge, skills, equipment
               | to do it yourself _if you had to_ - not doing something
               | _just because_.
               | 
               | I didn't build my vapor phase reflow oven, either.
               | 
               | I'm trying to solve my own problems, not craft a basic
               | piece of equipment for bragging rights; I just don't have
               | the kind of free time to have things not work perfectly.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | That works, maybe, if you're a giant of indusrtry...
               | Hyundai doesn't have to buy ram for its cars, it can
               | build it.
               | 
               | But if you're small, you can't build most of what you
               | need, and you should not build what you can buy that's
               | better than whaf you can build, and you may as well buy
               | things that you can build as good unless the cost to
               | build is much less.
               | 
               | Sometimes it's fun to build things instead of buying
               | them, and that'a ok. But if your goal is to do X, you're
               | better off spending time on X than spending time building
               | tools you could have bought. (Unless building the tools
               | builds requisite knowledge)
        
               | rfrey wrote:
               | There is no bright line on the DIY spectrum between that
               | injection molder and making your own charcoal to refine
               | iron.
               | 
               | I love building machines - enough so that I never build
               | anything _with_ them. Maybe someday I will, but by then
               | 15155 will have built hundreds of things.
        
           | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
           | I built a buster beagle. YouTube has a bunch of great guides
           | from him plus what to buy.
           | 
           | Mold making is a difficult science of itself. I can't point
           | you in a general direction beyond what worked for me. I
           | started with OpenSCAD then moved to FreeCAD then eventually
           | ended up with Fusion360. You need to have a vision for what
           | you want to make, or else you won't follow through till the
           | end with learning. There is some dude from Texas who wrote a
           | textbook on the subject that was invaluable for me in
           | learning how to design oxygenation and cooling techniques.
           | This is hardcore industrial engineering stuff, the kind of
           | thing that you don't casually do.if you're trying to learn
           | and do this yourself you need to not be afraid of doing some
           | applied physics.
           | 
           | There was a lot of crying and pain and trial and error for me
           | to teach myself. If you know what you want I would instead go
           | on fiverr or its equivalent of the day and hire yourself an
           | actual mold designer and save yourself 90% of the pain and
           | heartache that I went through. Mold designers are weirdly
           | cheap for the insane amount of expertise they offer
           | 
           | Printing the mold is another heartache of itself. I used
           | anycubic photon with a flex plate and Sriraya resin. That was
           | a journey all by itself - I originally started with insanely
           | expensive Formlabs stuff before getting to the Anycubic
           | solution. Again it took a lot of crying and trial and error
           | to get it right. But it costs a mere fraction of what it
           | costs to do it the normal way at least
        
         | georgeburdell wrote:
         | I would be interested to know more about that "etching wafers
         | on his desktop CNC"
        
         | dvh wrote:
         | How do you get fully assembled PCBs at JLCPCB for $5. I just
         | ordered one and it was $4.10 for bare PCB, assembly would cost
         | additional $8 so minimum for assembled pcb is $12.
        
           | _Microft wrote:
           | They are waiving the assembly setup fee at the moment.
           | 
           | https://jlcpcb.com/blog/4-Free-Assembly-for-Your-PCB
           | 
           | The GP commenter also wrote about a price "per unit":
           | 
           | > get some reasonably complex fully assembled prototype
           | boards shipped to me in a week or two for $5-20 USD _per
           | unit_.
        
       | rbongers wrote:
       | I am surprised semiconductor engineers called it impossible. A
       | cutting edge chip, sure, but a few thousand transistors?
        
         | ta8903 wrote:
         | Impossible for a teenager. This isn't like your everyday "kid
         | makes a software startup" stories. He had to source all the
         | machines, go through all the obscure documentation, understand
         | how to test his yield, etc. He built his own photolithography
         | machine ffs. I can't imagine the dedication required to go
         | through this and believe in yourself every step of the way.
        
           | was_a_dev wrote:
           | I can't imagine the funding required either
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | Helps to have some money too. I could just about afford to
           | get some PCBs made for some RF work but ain't no way I was
           | getting mum and dad to buy me my own electron microscope (or
           | move house to have space)
        
       | dooglius wrote:
       | More recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34907885
        
       | chasil wrote:
       | I hope he doesn't have to work these hours. That would be awful,
       | even if you loved it.
       | 
       | The risk of burnout would be very high, and not reasonable for
       | such a profoundly knowledgeable resource.
       | 
       | "We all take two years to develop one generation, how come you
       | guys can do it in one or one-and-a-half year?" And they asked if
       | some of your customer transfer technology to you or what not? And
       | I told him, "No," I told him that, "That's not true." I think he
       | probably implied we steal technology from customer, the way he
       | talk.
       | 
       | And I say, "I'll tell you why." I said that, "When we develop one
       | node, basically you have some learning cycles. First, you do some
       | simulation. And you have some idea, then you run wafers to prove
       | that. So, you run a group of wafers according to simulation and
       | you have some splits. The wafer runs through the fab, they come
       | out and you measure them, you analyze them, and you try to
       | improve and you run this again. This again, you run. So, this is
       | learning cycle." At that time, "It takes about six learning
       | cycle, roughly, to complete one generation." Of course, you had
       | some short loops and not just one. I said that, "My R&D wafer in
       | the fab run much faster than yours, because my R&D engineer works
       | three shifts and you only work one shift. So, your R&D wafer move
       | eight hours a day, my work/move 24-hours a day. So, my wafers go
       | three times faster, even if you are twice smarter than me, I
       | still beat you up." <laughter>
       | 
       | https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10279267...
        
         | Condition1952 wrote:
         | "Find something you love and you won't work any day in your
         | life".
        
       | hoc wrote:
       | But HE still could buy from ASML...
       | 
       | 40 years ago, one only had radios to disect and fat circuit
       | boards to etch. Access to docs was really bad. And people had to
       | be pros at 22 to overcome these home/garage limitations.
       | 
       | So. Progress.
        
       | ykl wrote:
       | If you are wondering what Sam Zeloof is up to these days: he
       | founded Atomic Semi [1] with Jim Keller (yes, _that_ Jim Keller).
       | 
       | [1] https://atomicsemi.com/
        
         | sadhorse wrote:
         | Quite hard to grasp what they are really trying to achieve
         | there. They are building what kind of tools, and for whom?
        
           | ip26 wrote:
           | Some past discussion suggested there was an opportunity for
           | very low volume production at much lower cost because the
           | method doesn't use masks.
        
             | xw3098 wrote:
             | There's no way it's lower cost. However what it could be is
             | guaranteed line capacity and delivery dates. And if you're
             | doing small orders from a large foundry you don't get that.
             | Those things have value too and someone might be willing to
             | pay a bit extra to get them.
             | 
             | My main issue is semiconductor lines are fragile beasts
             | that need constant tinkering. So if the system requires
             | full time staff to keep running, that's going to be really
             | expensive.
        
               | ip26 wrote:
               | If a mask set is 50 million and you only need ten chips,
               | these guys would only need to come in under 5 million per
               | chip to win on cost.
        
               | 15155 wrote:
               | If you only need 10 chips, you may just be able to use 50
               | or even 500 FPGAs.
               | 
               | 500 VU19P will cost less than 5 million.
        
               | vasco wrote:
               | Not if you want to put it somewhere small like a
               | satellite or bunch of other things.
        
               | xw3098 wrote:
               | https://roboticsandautomationnews.com/2020/06/09/xilinx-
               | laun...
               | 
               | Xilinx launches 'industry's first' 20 nanometer space-
               | grade FPGA chip
        
               | rwmj wrote:
               | There's a large number of applications which cannot be
               | done in an FPGA, for instance any complex GHz-clocked
               | digital circuit, or many analog circuits.
        
               | xw3098 wrote:
               | We don't know what node they're targeting so this is all
               | speculation but if it's anything below say 22nm then
               | that's finFET, and there's nothing low cost about finFET
               | at prototype volumes.
               | 
               | If it's not finFET then a non production mask set is much
               | less than $50 million in 2023.
               | 
               | Also, keep in mind maskless lithography has been used
               | commercially for roughly ten years now. And it's been in
               | Universities for significantly longer.
        
           | shrubble wrote:
           | My take was that a low and slow approach that did not involve
           | the traditional dangerous chemicals was being developed.
           | Currently TSMC etc processes require hydrofluoric acid and
           | other things that can kill you.
        
             | mikewarot wrote:
             | You can get Hydrofluoric acid at the grocery store... it's
             | used in "Wink" stain remover. It's strong enough to get the
             | job done, but dilute enough to be... well, in the grocery
             | store.
             | 
             | The stuff that you don't want to mess with is Silane, which
             | Sam describes as "a toxic and explosive gas".[1]
             | 
             | [1] http://sam.zeloof.xyz/second-ic/
        
           | dogma1138 wrote:
           | Semi is the next big thing in distributed manufacturing you
           | already have companies that offer what is essentially ride
           | sharing for semiconductors they manufacture single IC/SoC
           | with multiple blocks on them and you essentially pay for a %
           | of the floor plan which can operate independently from the
           | rest.
           | 
           | So whilst not quite garage ready we're probably 2-5 years of
           | you being able to order completely custom silicon form the
           | likes of PCBway and have it shipped in the matter of days
           | rather than months.
        
             | xw3098 wrote:
             | For very basic cmos nodes 24 turn is possible. But for most
             | advanced node the lead time is months because that's the
             | minimum manufacturing time.
             | 
             | https://www.seattletimes.com/business/technology/three-
             | month...
        
           | snitty wrote:
           | They're being very cagy, but it's quite likely they're
           | working on "fast" maskless technology. Basically going from
           | FPGA to chip in low enough volumes that maskless makes sense.
           | It'd be a small, but lucrative, niche if they can get a good
           | system at a decent node size.
        
           | csense wrote:
           | Think back to the 2021-2022 pandemic-triggered supply chain
           | chaos, when the media widely reported that car companies, for
           | example, were all having very painful experiences with
           | parking lots full of $50k trucks they couldn't sell due to a
           | lack of $5 chips.
           | 
           | At the time I saw some of Sam's videos (I think I originally
           | found them here on HN), and I had a big question: If a
           | hobbyist can build 1970's era chips for ~$10k in his garage,
           | and Intel can build 2020's era chips for ~$10B in state-of-
           | the-art factories, why doesn't someone start a startup
           | building 1990's era chips in a ~$10M facility?
           | 
           | I'd assume Atomic Semi is that startup :)
        
         | saturn8601 wrote:
         | Looking at their careers page the typical salary is $100,000 -
         | $170,000 for SF. Seems a little low for SF no? Is this an
         | indication that they are not well funded or going to have
         | issues finding top tier people?
        
           | xw3098 wrote:
           | Process development is closer to chemical engineering and
           | that's not bad when compared with their salary.
        
           | thebigman433 wrote:
           | Its low if theyre paying 100k for people with a couple years
           | of experience, but for entry level hardware jobs, 100k is
           | about right.
           | 
           | Ive been looking for almost 5 months for an entry level
           | hardware job (preferably in SF, but willing to relocate
           | anywhere), and 100k is about what Im looking for based on
           | what Ive seen.
           | 
           | Some go as low as 85, and some start at 120, but 100k is
           | pretty standard.
           | 
           | The salaries are not what they were in 2021
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | For anyone else interested in him, Sam has a Youtube channel,
         | but hasn't posted in awhile. He started this stuff as a
         | teenager with a garage that I think many of us would envy now,
         | let alone as a teenager. I've seen him on HN once or twice too.
         | There's a whole world of these home built processors channels
         | and they're pretty impressive. I know some others are posted in
         | other threads, but this isn't my niche so I'll leave it to
         | them.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/@SamZeloof
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _22-year-old builds chips in his parents' garage_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36690206 - July 2023 (3
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _22-year-old builds chips in his parents' garage_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30043719 - Jan 2022 (335
       | comments)
        
       | blobbers wrote:
       | I mean this is a great story, and I'm happy for this guy, but
       | isn't this a super dirty process? Is he going to have cancer in 8
       | years but will have built a chip from 1971? Seems like a bad
       | trade-off.
        
         | olyjohn wrote:
         | Isn't there PPE you can wear? How do they protect you in a real
         | factory? There are gloves, suits and respirators, and it's all
         | pretty cheap. Proper ventilation, that stuff isnt all that
         | expensive.
        
         | helsinkiandrew wrote:
         | Assuming you have decent ventilation and even basic PPE is this
         | any worse than an average auto or paint shop though?
         | 
         | Or even firefighting station!:
         | https://apnews.com/article/firefighters-cancer-pfas-turnout-...
        
       | kken wrote:
       | He wasn't the first one
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE
       | 
       | Also, very well documenated more recent attempt:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx1TenvQXTg
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | I've been following home-made semiconductors since Jeri Ellsworth
       | made her own NMOS FETs in 2010.[1] When Sam managed to make his
       | own ICs, I was happy for him, and for the hobby. Now he seems to
       | be on the verge of democratizing access to semiconductor
       | production in very low volumes. I've got my own project to try
       | out once I can get my hands on it.[2] Who knows, petaflop chips
       | made in the garage could be right around the corner, in less than
       | 2 decades!
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE
       | 
       | [2] https://bitgrid.blogspot.com/
        
         | RetroTechie wrote:
         | About [2], BitGrid:
         | 
         | If I read correctly, that concept _maps_ really well to LUTs as
         | used in FPGAs (but note it 's not the same!).
         | 
         | Its author/inventor Mike Warot has the simple but useful idea
         | of making the configuration space of such a device a simple
         | memory array (like RAM or EEPROM cells). Write some bits to a
         | memory location -> cell [x,y] in the device's grid is
         | configured.
         | 
         | This would make it trivial to control/interface such a 'compute
         | grid' to traditional cpus. To a cpu it would just look like
         | regular RAM.
         | 
         | Anyone know if there's work towards applying that idea to
         | FPGAs? It would basically evaporate the problem of [closed
         | source FPGA vendor toolchains].
         | 
         | Obviously, bitstreams produced by FPGA vendor tools will do a
         | _somewhat_ similar thing. But what /how exactly is opaque. Not
         | to mention encrypted bitstreams, read-protection & what have
         | you. Hence require re-engineering effort for open source tool
         | support.
         | 
         | Turning this into a dead simple 1:1 mapping would be a huge
         | step forward.
        
         | xw3098 wrote:
         | You can have this now https://efabless.com/
        
           | mikewarot wrote:
           | I can't... you might be able to afford $10k, but right now, I
           | had to think hard before spending $3 last night.
           | 
           | I hope to learn enough Verilog/VHDL/RTL to take advantage of
           | the Free Shuttle program they have[1] eventually.
           | 
           | Currently, I'm wondering how to go from expressions to code I
           | can load into a bitgrid. The thought of parsing code,
           | building an AST, converting that to an acyclic directed graph
           | of binary expressions, to actual bits to load the grid
           | with.... overwhelms me, and has me putting it off. 8(
           | 
           | I do have a working simulator, written in Pascal[2], that can
           | run fairly quickly for toy problems on my desktop PC. So,
           | there's been some progress.
           | 
           | I strongly suspect I _can_ get there, but need an
           | accountability buddy to push me along. I used to be a self
           | starter, but I stayed in an IT Admin job too long that
           | crushed it out of me.
           | 
           | [1] https://efabless.com/open_shuttle_program
           | 
           | [2] https://github.com/mikewarot/Bitgrid
        
             | xw3098 wrote:
             | You might try starting here then. It's a good community as
             | well
             | 
             | https://www.tinytapeout.com/
             | 
             | You're not required to buy the tile to take the lessons
        
               | mikewarot wrote:
               | That looks awesome... thanks!
        
       | tsss wrote:
       | If my parents had bought me a $30k laser cutter I would be too.
       | But I can't even afford the garage.
       | 
       | If you want to worship a DIY-god then look up Jerry Ellsworth.
       | She's the real deal, unlike this guy, and makes chips with her
       | own dumpster-dived repaired machinery, not with contacts to the
       | local University's million dollar research lab.
        
         | elteto wrote:
         | What a negative and off-putting comment. You are dunking on the
         | work of a teenager putting in time and effort to do something
         | incredible by any measure. You need to take a deep, hard look
         | inside of you, what's spilling out is not nice. Why do we have
         | to pick between one or the other? I celebrate the work of both
         | of them.
         | 
         | And with your attitude, no, most likely you wouldn't have built
         | anything with a $30k laser cutter.
        
           | 93po wrote:
           | He makes a point but it's better described as "it's awesome
           | that this young man has had the drive and curiosity to do so
           | well with the abilities and resources he's been gifted"
        
         | rfrey wrote:
         | I suspect that if you had access to a $30k laser cutter you'd
         | be saying you could be awesome too, if you only had a $250k
         | metal printer.
        
         | ALittleLight wrote:
         | The article mentions she was an inspiration for the 22 year old
         | and that she says of him he has taken her work to the next
         | level.
         | 
         | I'm curious, what work were you doing that was stymied by your
         | parents lack of funding?
        
       | vitiral wrote:
       | Sam was one of my main inspirations in starting
       | http://civboot.org. Awesome to see he's managed to make his own
       | chip now!
        
       | mendigou wrote:
       | As someone with 0 idea about semiconductors development: How does
       | making your own chip compare to using FPGAs when you need low
       | quantities? What things can you do with your own IC that you
       | cannot do with FPGAs?
        
         | cakeAndEatIt wrote:
         | It's more of a principle achievement, like, "hey Intel, come
         | cause a shooting spree at my local grocery store while I'm
         | there, because, anybody who did similar DIY things in the
         | automobile-hydrogen space met a similar fate from _that_
         | industry! " [1]
         | 
         | 1.
         | https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/02/facebook-p...
        
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