[HN Gopher] Woman's experimental bionic hand passes major test
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       Woman's experimental bionic hand passes major test
        
       Author : jordigg
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2023-10-12 15:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gizmodo.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gizmodo.com)
        
       | tycho-newman wrote:
       | Does it come with attachments?
        
         | elil17 wrote:
         | Not sure why you're downvoted here - in the video they show at
         | least one non-hand attachment, a computer terminal which lets
         | her control a virtual hand for training purposes. Two wires run
         | from her implants to the terminal.
        
           | kwhitefoot wrote:
           | People probably thought that they had a particular kind of
           | attachment in mind. One that can't be mentioned in polite
           | society.
        
             | viraptor wrote:
             | What, a dildo? It can be mentioned in a polite society.
             | Just not in a prude one. (Now, whether it's a reasonable
             | question or just being immature is another thing...)
        
             | malfist wrote:
             | Or people thought asking if a prosthetic, which is an
             | attachment, came with an attachment to be a pointless
             | question
        
       | causi wrote:
       | _and provides sensory feedback_
       | 
       | This seems like a major achievement that's just casually tossed
       | in there with no ceremony or explanation.
        
         | distortionfield wrote:
         | I thought the same thing, feels like they buried the lede there
         | a bit. I have a ton of questions, including if this could at
         | all benefit from an approach like Toyota's robotics team
         | recently demonstrated.
        
       | GravityLab wrote:
       | This is amazing. Soon we'll be at the bionic arms featured in
       | iRobot.
        
         | chrsw wrote:
         | No, not soon.
        
       | autoexec wrote:
       | I've seen some amazing prosthetics on the internet, I've been
       | seeing them for decades, but none of them get wide use. They're
       | either all "experimental" or so insanely expensive that nobody
       | can get them. These kinds of articles can make us feel good about
       | science and hopeful about our future, but the reality is that the
       | people who need these things are basically never going to have
       | one or anything close to one.
        
         | Dig1t wrote:
         | You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
         | 
         | Look how much hatred there is for Neuralink. A company actually
         | trying to productize and bring to market a device that will
         | allow quadriplegic people to move and walk again, which could
         | restore life for so many people who need help and have no other
         | options.
         | 
         | So if you do try to bring it to market you're pilloried by the
         | press and everyone online and if you don't it's sad because it
         | seems like there's nobody trying to make the technology
         | accessible.
        
           | notaustinpowers wrote:
           | I think the main concern with Neuralink isn't so much the
           | technology/mission itself, it's Elon. We've seen with his
           | other companies how he runs testing. Blow up rocket after
           | rocket after rocket until it goes right. And even when it
           | does go right, cause catastrophic damage to the launch pad,
           | damage they were warned would happen. With earth Tesla
           | Autopilots it was very finicky and absolutely should have
           | gone through more in-house training rather than releasing it
           | to the public, calling it a "beta" and hoping for the best.
           | 
           | We've seen his track record and have a perceived idea of how
           | he prefers to advance technology. That's why a lot of people
           | are very nervous about him putting a chip into people's
           | brains.
        
             | Dig1t wrote:
             | If you've ever built anything you know that the only way
             | anything gets built is with iteration. There are very few
             | examples in history where something new got built and was a
             | perfect finished product v1. The way we build new things is
             | making something, testing it, measuring the outcome and
             | then using the information to build v2.
             | 
             | Look at literally every product ever built, that's how it
             | was made. Rockets especially need this treatment, you have
             | to blow up a lot of rockets to refine the process in any
             | reasonable time frame.
             | 
             | It's not just Elon's methodology that's all new things. How
             | many iPhone prototypes do you think they created before
             | they shipped the first one?
             | 
             | Neuralink is doing the same thing with lab animals, which
             | by the way is an established practice used in all of
             | science. The end result will be a cure for people who
             | desperately need it and it will be within our lifetime if
             | they are allowed to continue without regulatory roadblocks.
        
           | mikem170 wrote:
           | > Look how much hatred there is for Neuralink. A company
           | actually trying to productize and bring to market a device
           | that will allow quadriplegic people to move and walk again
           | 
           | People are wary of Neuralink because of how big tech
           | manipulates peoples and pollutes society for profit, not
           | because they are opposed to helping quadriplegics.
        
             | Dig1t wrote:
             | I agree there are things to be wary of, all new tech is a
             | double edged sword. But the pro's obviously outweigh the
             | cons in the same way the internet and smart phones have.
             | 
             | You'll find very few people who will say they would prefer
             | to live in a world where all humanity's collective
             | knowledge is not instantly accessible to everyone. You used
             | to have to drive to the library to look things up! Is that
             | old world better? Heck no.
             | 
             | It will be the same with neural implants. Overcoming
             | neurological illness and giving everyone's brain super
             | computer capabilities are worth the risk.
        
               | tspike wrote:
               | > in the same way the internet and smart phones have
               | 
               | I think the jury is very much still out on that one. I
               | just got on Facebook for the first time in almost 10
               | years, and the comments on 'suggested' content have made
               | me seriously question whether society was ready for these
               | technologies. The corrosive impact of the falsehoods that
               | are being thrown around has only begun to take effect.
        
         | xenadu02 wrote:
         | Very rarely does any technology start off cheap enough to be
         | mass-produced. If you don't build prototypes then expensive
         | bespoke initial models you'll often never get to the "half of
         | all who need it can afford it" let alone "90%+ can afford it".
         | 
         | If you don't like that then the government will need to step up
         | with public funds.
        
         | eichin wrote:
         | I thought the DEKA arm was shipping, but apparently
         | https://www.unionleader.com/news/scitech/dean-kamens-new-luk...
         | it's finally coming to market this quarter - "testing by nearly
         | 100 amputees for more than 10,000 hours of use" now that it
         | actually has FDA approval; earliest demo that turns up in a
         | quick search was _2007_ ... so it 's the kind of success that
         | makes your point :}
        
       | altruios wrote:
       | in a 'perfect' future: we would cut off our own limbs to get the
       | nimble-tron 5000 with magnetic finger extensions and predictive
       | AI that totally doesn't strangle anyone even a little.
       | 
       | I joke... but I unironically can't wait for replacement limb tech
       | to be that desirable. Imagine the upgrades people would get...
        
         | Aisen8010 wrote:
         | The vision and ideas from the game Deus Ex are waiting to
         | happen.
        
         | lo_zamoyski wrote:
         | This is not an "upgrade". A replacement is a concession, a
         | patch, a crutch, a mere instrument. It doesn't matter if the
         | crutch can crack open Brazil nuts or turn your TV on or allow
         | you to fetch the keys that fell behind the fridge.
         | Metaphysically, it is always an inferior, if sophisticated,
         | instrument. Ridding yourself of perfectly good limbs to replace
         | them with an instrument is not only a "downgrade", but gravely
         | and grotesquely immoral.
         | 
         | You can blame the incoherent travesty that is mechanistic
         | metaphysics for the strange notion it is otherwise.
        
           | altruios wrote:
           | whoa...
           | 
           | hold on there...
           | 
           | I replace my 2080ti with a 4080ti... is that's not an
           | upgrade: that's instead categorically always a 'patch' to
           | you?
           | 
           | metaphysically - a replacement says nothing to the quality of
           | replacement.
           | 
           | Silly to think any change on anything is always for the
           | worse...
           | 
           | A replacement can also be an upgrade. those are not mutually
           | exclusive labels.
        
         | the_doctah wrote:
         | The technological singularity actually occurs when the
         | prosthetic hand gives a hand jibber unrecognizable from a real
         | one.
        
       | roarcher wrote:
       | This is pretty amazing, but I wonder--how does the body adapt to
       | having a piece of hardware that extends through the skin? Does
       | the body not see this as an open wound? It seems like being
       | permanently impaled with a metal pole.
        
         | dexwiz wrote:
         | Not a doctor, but semipermanent ports are common. I imagine
         | with the right coatings and materials, we know how to manage
         | natural rejection.
        
         | Thebroser wrote:
         | Would probably assume some level of immunosuppressants might be
         | necessary.
        
         | failrate wrote:
         | Like an earring? The skin typically forms a fistula-like sheath
         | around the metal.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | A fistula from a piercing connects two surface exits to each
           | other, like a wormhole through your body. Once complete, the
           | piercing touches nothing internal to you, just skin.
           | 
           | But in this case, the prosthetic must penetrate through the
           | skin to connect to bone.
        
         | sigmar wrote:
         | There are some metals that are well known to be biocompatible,
         | as in no immune response. The video in the article has diagram
         | of the inner screws into her arm. I'd guess the screws are
         | Ti6Al4V, which is frequently used in knee replacements and
         | other orthopedic surgeries.
        
       | braymundo wrote:
       | Karin Silverhand.
        
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       (page generated 2023-10-12 21:01 UTC)