[HN Gopher] The Basics of Photovoltaic Systems: How They Work
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       The Basics of Photovoltaic Systems: How They Work
        
       Author : cleantech
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2023-10-11 02:24 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mercurialtrends.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mercurialtrends.com)
        
       | bruce511 wrote:
       | As someone who has acquired rather too much information about
       | solar over the past few years (in preparation for a largish
       | system) I can say this is a good overall primary.
       | 
       | One irrelevant detail not mentioned, which I like repeating, is
       | that despite being made to literally sun-bathe all day long,
       | solar panels don't like being hot. (Effeciency drops with heat,
       | gains with cold.)
       | 
       | There's not a whole lot you can do about this, except allow for
       | passive air cooling. There are some water cooled panels
       | available, but costs make them uneconomic for now.
       | 
       | I was interested to learn though that on a cold summers day, the
       | panel output can exceed the nominal rating got the panel.
       | Something to consider if you are at high altitude.
        
         | stinos wrote:
         | _solar panels don 't like being hot_
         | 
         | Indeed, and this touches on the 'Regular cleaning of PV panels
         | is important for ensuring maximum energy production' statement
         | in a funny way. First of all, while the statement is accurate,
         | I'd say is not too important practically depending on where you
         | live. As our isntallation guys also told us. Our panels seem to
         | do just fine with occasional heavy rainfall to clean them and
         | the loss when they're covered in a thin layer of dust is not
         | worth spending time on. On the other hand, the PV cleaning
         | companies will say that it's super important to clean them. So
         | when my mum got her panels cleaned it went like this: sunny
         | day, panels get hot, efficiency drops. Panels were cleaned with
         | water, temperature drops, cleaners told her 'look how much
         | better it is now'. But after they were gone temperature rose
         | again and efficiency was essentially back to where it was
         | before.
        
         | boredemployee wrote:
         | >> solar panels don't like being hot
         | 
         | that's why in tropical countries people should aim for
         | photothermical systems instead, collecting sun energy with
         | parabolical mirrors heating up water, moving steam engine thus
         | generating energy
        
         | RetroTechie wrote:
         | > solar panels don't like being hot.
         | 
         | For boats there's flexible panels that in many cases you can
         | even walk on.
         | 
         | But the sun's power not turned into electricity, heats both
         | panel & roof of the boat (and in turn, its interior). Not
         | something you want on a hot sunny day.
         | 
         | A rack-mounted panel otoh, allows for airflow underneath, and
         | -if roof mounted- separates (potentially hot) panel from the
         | boat's roof.
         | 
         | So, cool(er) vs. aesthetics. Definitely a pitfall to be aware
         | of for boat owners installing PV.
        
         | tibbydudeza wrote:
         | Had to get a home PV system out of necessity due to our
         | national power company being up a shitcreek with an aging fleet
         | of badly maintained coal power plants.
         | 
         | 3.7 Kw solar panels and 2 x 5KW LifePO batteries and a 5Kw
         | SunSynk inverter tied to the grid - solar geyser and it does
         | not power our electric oven - the only issue is the management
         | system is dumb as bricks - there is no intelligence and
         | difference charge settings or profiles for our cold winters and
         | hot summers or using the weather forecast for the day.
         | 
         | It just averages out.
        
           | adql wrote:
           | If it can be controlled via RS485 you might be able to add
           | some smarts to it, like lowering charge level if weather is
           | supposed to be good next few days.
        
         | victor106 wrote:
         | Off-topic: The most practical alternative energy seems to
         | nuclear
        
         | hutzlibu wrote:
         | "There are some water cooled panels available, but costs make
         | them uneconomic for now."
         | 
         | Couldn't you just use that warm water and so make it economic?
         | Are there any combined systems that try this?
        
           | adql wrote:
           | There are but you just won't be able to use all that water if
           | you have more than a few panels.
           | 
           | Like if you need enough water for shower you might just need
           | heat of like... one or two solar panel sized heaters,
           | anything extra means water will be permanently hot and so any
           | benefits from cooling would be minimal unless you had some
           | heat dump to pump the excess heat out. So more cost
           | 
           | There is probably some use for heating house in the
           | spring/autumn, but system that can put the heat from panels
           | either to heat the water or heat the house is additional
           | extra complexity and cost.
        
           | edent wrote:
           | You can, but the problem is that warm water isn't that
           | useful.
           | 
           | Unless your system can regularly heat up to >60C to kill
           | legionella then it will need external heating.
           | 
           | Secondly, when the external temperatures are high there's
           | very little need for warm water. Perhaps a few dozen litres
           | for washing. No one is taking a hot bath on a summer's day!
           | 
           | If you have the space, you can store the hot water
           | underground and then pump it back up in winter for heating.
           | But that's expensive.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | I'm not sure where you could use it. At least in the UK:
           | 
           | - water for heating your home is in a closed loop, and you
           | wouldn't want to add this cooling to that closed loop as it
           | would heat up your solar panels on cold days
           | 
           | - water for drinking/washing comes from the same cold feed,
           | and you don't want to heat that up as you can't get cold
           | water then
           | 
           | - bisecting the water supply into hot taps and cold taps, and
           | running the hot one under the PV cells could work, but it
           | would only flow the water when something is pulling water,
           | e.g. running a tap, which might be a hindrance to cooling
        
             | Maakuth wrote:
             | There are solutions in the market for this. The heat
             | recovery system is filled with glycol solution, which means
             | it doesn't freeze over even if left unpowered during sub-
             | zero outside temperature. Then there's a temperature sensor
             | and a control unit that only runs the pump when the fluid
             | in the panels is warmer than the warm water accumulator of
             | the home heating system.
             | 
             | The heat collectors are vacuum insulated, so provided with
             | enough solar radiation, they will work even when it's very
             | cold outside. These systems work okay for example here in
             | Finland. Of course it's a limiting factor that you normally
             | need the heating most when the solar radiation is at the
             | minimum. If you've got a swimming pool or some other use
             | for the hot water during the summer, it's a good deal.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | > the warm water accumulator of the home heating system
               | 
               | I'm not sure how this would work in a modern UK heating
               | system - there is no warm water accumulator to my
               | knowledge.
        
               | Maakuth wrote:
               | I suppose a modern gas or oil burner doesn't need one.
               | But this sort of solar based heater as well as ground-
               | source heat pumps typically would need it. They are not
               | very expensive however, as they are just heat-insulated
               | tanks of water. Of course space requirements and such
               | might rule out adding one in many cases.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | I think it's more - how do you hook it up with the rest
               | of your water?
        
             | Angostura wrote:
             | There are lots of houses in the UK that have hot water
             | tanks. The water in these is heated by effectively a
             | radiator inside the water tank. We have one here and the my
             | tank has a 'secondary loop' designed to be driven by a
             | water-filled solar panel. Typical kind of tank:
             | https://www.screwfix.com/p/heatrae-sadia-megaflo-eco-
             | solar-p...
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | True, but those are often older. I know some new builds
               | also have them (I lived in one of said new builds a few
               | years ago) but my impression is they are often older
               | heating systems that don't have a combi boiler yet.
        
           | senectus1 wrote:
           | its not the running of them thats uneconomical, is the added
           | infrastructure and component cost.
        
         | darkwater wrote:
         | Yep, I live in Southern Europe and my panels have the biggest
         | output end of April/May, while one would expect it to be end of
         | June.
        
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       (page generated 2023-10-11 16:01 UTC)