[HN Gopher] Engineered material can reconnect severed nerves
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       Engineered material can reconnect severed nerves
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 349 points
       Date   : 2023-10-10 17:46 UTC (22 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.rice.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.rice.edu)
        
       | Julesman wrote:
       | Knowing someone with a spinal injury I can tell you that these
       | constant innovations that won't reach the market for 20 years are
       | kind of continuously devastating.
        
         | MetalGuru wrote:
         | 20 years is infinitely better than never. There are a lot of
         | life-altering diseases whose future outlook is much bleaker
         | (eg. little funding or research interest). But yea, having to
         | wait so long definitely sucks for those currently suffering.
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | Bring it to market faster then?
        
           | koheripbal wrote:
           | Usually they just don't work
        
         | theshackleford wrote:
         | I have a spinal cord injury (well rather, an incomplete spinal
         | cord injury) and knowing that every day will be like the last
         | until I die has taken a toll that has at times almost led me to
         | bring that event forward in time. Look after your nerves my
         | peeps.
        
         | DoreenMichele wrote:
         | There is too much focus on the "cool" factor and not enough on
         | quality of life and results for impacted patients. I don't know
         | how to fix it.
         | 
         | I've mostly given up on commenting on this on HN. I have an
         | incurable condition and it makes zero difference that these
         | practices directly negatively impact my life and scare the hell
         | out of me, such observations get down voted and attacked and
         | treated like crazy talk.
         | 
         | I'm sorry for what your social contact is going through.
        
       | Geee wrote:
       | If I understand correctly, this allows nerve-to-digital and
       | digital-to-nerve conversions. This means that we're soon able to
       | replace our bodies with robotic ones.
       | 
       | The remaining problem is to figure out how to keep a brain alive
       | in a vat, and making the life-support devices small enough to fit
       | inside the body. It's probably not too difficult; you need to
       | circulate blood, remove carbon dioxide, add oxygen, add glucose.
       | You could probably keep the brain alive indefinitely.
        
         | momento wrote:
         | > This means that we're soon able to replace our bodies with
         | robotic ones.
         | 
         | Talk about jumping to conclusions.
        
           | nehal3m wrote:
           | Jumping using high performance hydraulic actuators instead of
           | legs, of course. Flesh is a prison!
        
         | euroderf wrote:
         | A recurring theme in science fiction. See for example "They
         | Saved Hitler's Brain".
        
         | lordnacho wrote:
         | Why? Find a way to distil whatever process the brain does,
         | emulate it on a computer.
        
           | taway1a2b3c wrote:
           | Never wish for this. The amount of (emulated, but still real
           | to the emulatee) suffering has no practical limit.
           | Emulation/Uploading is every sadists wet dream. The only way
           | to stay free is to live your life in the real and embrace
           | (and hope for) the permanence of death.
        
           | spoiler wrote:
           | That's very "draw the rest of the owl"!
        
           | Geee wrote:
           | You can do this with atom level simulation and growing the
           | brain all the way from DNA, but it needs a lot of compute (>
           | 50 years).
           | 
           | However, and in the end you'd be bored, because you could get
           | rid of all of your human flaws, which is what makes life
           | interesting. It'd be really depressing and boring to be a
           | superintelligent computer.
        
             | kwhitefoot wrote:
             | > you could get rid of all of your human flaws,
             | 
             | I take it you have never written any large applications or
             | simulations.
        
             | lordnacho wrote:
             | Yeah exactly. You would never do an atom level simulation,
             | you would distill the model of whatever you think people
             | are.
             | 
             | And then that would live on in a new environment, becoming
             | something entirely different.
        
             | d-lisp wrote:
             | Being flawed is the new being sentient.
        
         | otikik wrote:
         | My hopes are smaller in scope. I hope this helps people with
         | severed nerve damage, or perhaps to implement better
         | prosthetics for people with missing limbs (perhaps with motion
         | and tactile sensors?)
         | 
         | One that I would personally be very interested in would be
         | improving human-computer interactions. Preferably with no
         | quirurgical procedures, or something extremely non-invasive and
         | quick.
        
           | Geee wrote:
           | Helping disabled people is probably the most important near-
           | term application of this. I just like to ponder about long-
           | term "sci-fi" implications, in terms of how and when these
           | kinds of ideas will become actually plausible.
           | 
           | Some applications, like digital eyes, which connect directly
           | to the optic nerve, would be first used to cure blindness,
           | but soon people would start replacing their functioning eyes
           | too, if it allows feeding pixels directly into the brain.
           | Same with prosthetics, if they'd be better than biological
           | ones. Then if you have cyborg eyes, arms and legs, why have a
           | biological 'core' which is pretty much useless at this point.
           | 
           | Storing the brain in the body would actually be a bad idea.
           | Human brains could be stored in a warehouse and they'd
           | control robotic bodies remotely. You'd be able to jump into
           | different bodies all over the world, and choose from
           | different form-factors (ant, whale, dragon, etc.) This would
           | actually be easier to implement, because the life-support
           | system for the brain could be larger and consume more energy
           | and other resources. You'd also be able to choose whether you
           | want to live in a simulated world or a physical world through
           | robots.
           | 
           | I think this is where we're quite realistically heading in
           | less than 50 years.
        
             | mindstorms6 wrote:
             | I've interviewed with / been to the facility of this place:
             | https://science.xyz/products/vision/
             | 
             | They're exploring the "digital eye" concept you mentioned.
             | Really cool stuff. Probably less than 50 years for the
             | fixing some types of blindness.
        
               | Geee wrote:
               | Really cool. Glad to see someone is already working on
               | this.
        
       | rpmisms wrote:
       | I'm not a medical person, can anyone who knows more than me
       | explain exactly how cool this is? Fixing spinal cords, or just
       | repairing simple nerve severance?
        
         | achileas wrote:
         | Too early to tell. Might make less invasive neurostimulation
         | therapies, may or may not make them more effective (not all
         | neurons can grow back or grow back to where they are supposed
         | to be).
        
           | sparrowInHand wrote:
           | Supossed to? Which means, with neuro-plasticity, you retrain
           | the usage of a body part?
        
         | busterarm wrote:
         | Neuropathy affects a lot of people. Diabetics, for example.
         | This could improve a lot of lives.
        
           | 14 wrote:
           | I don't think it will ultimately help a diabetic. More
           | worrisome then loss of feeling is loss of circulation. With
           | High blood sugars you're essentially get sugar crystals that
           | build up on the capillary walls, which prevent blood
           | circulation. Even if you cure Neuropathy will still have the
           | issue of poor circulation.
        
             | maximegarcia wrote:
             | But with neuropathy, which causes loss of feeling, pain...
             | in the feet for example, you can ignore damage that
             | combined with a loss of blood circulation capabilities can
             | make things deteriorate very badly (necrosis, amputation).
        
         | trey-jones wrote:
         | I too am interested in the applications of this technology and
         | also what the timeline for that might look like.
        
         | Gibbon1 wrote:
         | Even small nerve injuries can be life changing. Friend my motor
         | cycle rat friends hit a bridge abutment. Severed the nerves in
         | his right shoulder. He has no feeling in and cannot move his
         | arm. So being able to fix that would be a big deal for people
         | affected.
        
           | rpmisms wrote:
           | Yeah, one reason I'm very very careful on my motorcycle. The
           | injuries are amazing, very interested in the continued
           | function of my body.
        
         | markisus wrote:
         | From the article, the device is more like a bridge rather than
         | something that helps the body heal.
        
           | rpmisms wrote:
           | Yeah, as far as I understand, it can act like a bridge
           | between two ends of a severed nerve.
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | Give me a pair of bridges and a conductor to make the nerve
             | signals travel at electric current speeds and I'll give you
             | almost instantaneous reflexes.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Give me one bridge and a mechanical arm...
               | 
               | ... or just make it a plane's control surface.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | That as well. Why be human when you can be an airplane?
        
               | calvinmorrison wrote:
               | Oh boy wait till this guy finds out about copper
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | I think bio-compatibility is nasty.
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | > I'll give you almost instantaneous reflexes.
               | 
               | This is almost probably not what you want. Your nerves
               | respond pretty quickly already and you can do things
               | faster than you can think about them (e.g. catching a
               | ball) so there's more to the computation than the "CPU".
               | 
               | I have read that the myelin sheath on your nerves is
               | thicker at birth then as an adult. The theory (not mine!)
               | is that as it thins the capacitance goes down and perhaps
               | this helps keep the transmission time more constant as yu
               | grow, so that what you have learned about walking,
               | catching a ball, drinking hot coffee from a cup continues
               | to work. Imperfectly -- kids are clumsy -- but enough
               | that you can quickly adapt and not have to keep learning
               | all over again.
        
               | lifeisstillgood wrote:
               | So if as a child I learn to send a signal to my hand to
               | move out to catch the ball, the signal takes X
               | microseconds to travel from brain down my arm to my and
               | and "clasp"
               | 
               | But as an adult / teen my arm is now a foot or more
               | longer. So the signal would take x+y microseconds to get
               | to my hand - but if the resistance of the nerves reduces
               | it's signal is faster and back to x microseconds
               | 
               | That's brilliant
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | > But as an adult / teen my arm is now a foot or more
               | longer.
               | 
               | It was a lifetime of tiny adjustments. We'd be lost in
               | our adult bodies if it were a sudden transition.
               | 
               | As a teen, I was observably clumsier than I was as a
               | small kid.
        
               | skykooler wrote:
               | I wonder if you could multiplex the signals from a bunch
               | of nerves and send them over an Ethernet link.
        
               | soco wrote:
               | Next level: link together a group of humans. I can't
               | really imagine the implications of that, but I think of
               | Vernor Vinge's "A fire upon the deep" and the group minds
               | of the wolves there...
        
               | skykooler wrote:
               | Hmm, you could have a skilled pianist play piano through
               | your hands.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | There's more than that to playing - a musician masters
               | their own body in order to play the instrument with the
               | required dexterity. There would need to be a translation
               | layer between the commands that work on their body and
               | the ones that'd work in yours (different finger lengths
               | and muscular strength is the first thing that came to my
               | mind).
        
               | BurningFrog wrote:
               | A radio link would simplify this enormously. You could
               | link nerves "wirelessly"from a leg to near the brain
               | without any surgery in between.
               | 
               | I don't see why it's fundamentally impossible?
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | After pressing the button on the microwave you'd be
               | frozen until the machine beeped.
               | 
               | Unless you had a tinfoil hat (well, suit).
        
               | PawgerZ wrote:
               | Typically, you close the microwave door before starting
               | it.
        
               | BurningFrog wrote:
               | Just remember to close it from the outside!
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | I'm not sure it'd be a brilliant idea from an infosec
               | point-of-view - the links themselves would need to be
               | hardened in such way interfering with them would be
               | impossible, or someone would be able to just blast the
               | proper messages to the receivers to take over someone's
               | body.
               | 
               | In fact, the conductor was half-joking. I'd probably go
               | for fiber, even if it adds latency at the endpoints.
        
               | westurner wrote:
               | "Walking naturally after spinal cord injury using a
               | brain-spine interface" (2023)
               | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06094-5 :
               | 
               | > _To establish this digital bridge, we integrated two
               | fully implanted systems that enable recording of cortical
               | activity and stimulation of the lumbosacral spinal cord
               | wirelessly and in real time (Fig. 1a)._
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | I'm very impressed with this advance of modern bio-science - a
       | strain of intelligent rice which can be trained in engineering.
        
       | gpderetta wrote:
       | Neural lace when?
        
         | ElFitz wrote:
         | Considering how hard it is to actually fix any accidental
         | damage to brain cells and nerves, and the far-reaching
         | consequences of such damage, I am always amazed to see how many
         | are eager to just plug something into it and let some arbitrary
         | code send electric shocks through their brain.
         | 
         | I get the unfathomable potential of the thing, and the appeal
         | of said potential. But that's a product I won't be an early-
         | adopter of.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | As of yet, most people with brain implants have them to try
           | to improve profound problems.
           | 
           | Cochlear implants are controversial in the deaf community,
           | but they also have a relatively clear purpose and effect (vs
           | being "arbitrary").
        
             | imp0cat wrote:
             | Controversial? Please do tell.
        
           | gpderetta wrote:
           | Oh, me neither! But growing up reading scifi and cyberpunk in
           | particular, one has to wonder.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | Yeah, every time something like that is mentioned, I just
           | think of small issues that could cause noise on the output.
           | Basically if you wear some device that helps you, either
           | passive like glasses or active like a hearing aid, you can
           | immediately disconnect then if needed. But imagine an implant
           | bugs out and you start receiving a maximum signal for
           | something without being able to stop. Like a blinding bright
           | light which doesn't go away when you close your eyes. As much
           | as the cyberpunk idea is fun, I'd have to really suffer
           | without some implant to risk it.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | I wonder if it's possible to make a much simpler passive-
             | only "mental stress detection" system, and use that as a
             | kind of emergency stop (let's _not_ call it a  "kill
             | switch" in this context) for any more-complicated
             | augmentation.
             | 
             | That creates the opposite risk that your enhancements stop
             | working when you _want_ them in some kind of real/external
             | emergency situation.
             | 
             | I suppose it also wouldn't work in the case that the main
             | augmentation caused, say, unending waves of paralyzing
             | calm, although there could be another detection-gate for
             | physiological signals to keep such people from
             | starving/dehydration.
        
       | unsupp0rted wrote:
       | I've always found it incongruous that we can move a person's body
       | around the globe at 900 kilometers per hour for 25 hours for
       | under $1500 but for 1000x that price and even with 1000x that
       | time we can't bridge the distance between a brain and a foot.
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | Given enough curiosity, anyone can understand how and why a jet
         | plane works in as much or as little detail as they want. Planes
         | were engineered by humans from first principles and we're good
         | at both documenting our inventions and understanding those
         | first principles.
         | 
         | Building something to interface with a biological system,
         | though, is another matter entirely. It could as well be alien
         | technology. It requires reverse engineering a lot of extremely
         | complex stuff that was not designed by our civilization. So
         | incomprehensibly complex that we only fairly recently made
         | enough progress in other fields to be able to build tools to
         | meaningfully poke at it.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | > that was not designed by our civilization
           | 
           | To the best of our knowledge, it wasn't _designed_ at all. It
           | 's more like giving a monkey a typewriter and millions of
           | years, with a very crude feedback function (evolution/natural
           | selection) that makes it very hard to backtrack out of a
           | local maximum.
           | 
           | It's quite hard to interface with it because it's not
           | designed to be interfaced with and the whole thing works
           | pretty much by accident, and where changing any variable
           | could throw it off.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | > it wasn't designed at all
             | 
             | Obviously. There is no functional separation between
             | components (some proteins do multiple unrelated jobs),
             | there's no distinct hierarchy (layers just kinda flow into
             | each other), and there's way too much global state that
             | works seemingly something like this:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5mwVv5NjhA
        
               | kwhitefoot wrote:
               | That was seriously cool! And so much work!
        
         | root_axis wrote:
         | I don't see what's incongruous about it, those two tasks are
         | completely different, making a comparison with respect to
         | distance isn't meaningful.
        
         | carabiner wrote:
         | These seem completely unrelated. One is about travel distance
         | the other is about forming tissue connections. We can easily
         | travel the distance between brain and a foot, it's around 5 ft.
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | Individual science disciplines advance at a very uneven speed
         | and with different start points in history.
         | 
         | We have always (OK, at least since Ancient Egypt) known more
         | about mathematics than about physics.
         | 
         | We have always (...) known more about physics than about
         | chemistry.
         | 
         | We have always (...) known more about chemistry than about our
         | bodies.
         | 
         | The available technology mirrors that.
        
           | grishka wrote:
           | And biology in particular is unique because it requires other
           | fields to progress pretty far for the tools necessary for
           | comprehensive biological research to become possible. As in,
           | a microscope is a prerequisite for the discovery of cells and
           | microorganisms.
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | So, I'll put this into terms that a sysadmin can understand:
         | imagine if all the Ethernet or fiber going to a datacenter rack
         | was bundled up, and I cut that bundle up. Now you have to
         | splice them back together so that every port is still connected
         | to the same port it was before I cut the cables. Oh, and also,
         | the cables are microscopic, incredibly fragile, and we don't
         | know how to actually repair them. We sort of just hope they can
         | grow back in place.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | For scale, a human spine has coming off it a few hundred
           | thousand nerve fibers inside 31 pairs of nerves.[1]
           | 
           | I was actually expecting more, since that is effectively IO
           | for the whole body, and each individual nerve fiber tends not
           | to fire more than tens of Hz.
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4612209/
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | Not the whole body. Eyes and ears have their own high
             | bandwidth direct attachment interfaces to the cortex.
        
           | avg_dev wrote:
           | Very clear mental image there. Thanks for phrasing it that
           | way.
        
           | p1esk wrote:
           | The fact that they grow back in place makes the whole thing
           | 1000x easier, no?
        
             | itishappy wrote:
             | Only if it grows back correctly!
             | 
             | Imagine attempting to wire up a datacenter that is actively
             | trying to rewire itself (and not necessarily to your
             | plans).
        
               | garba_dlm wrote:
               | here's the kicker
               | 
               | it's all connected to an organic deep neural network
               | 
               | which means that the specific arrangement of the physical
               | wires doesn't matter. because there's a training period
               | in which the neural network literally learns to control
               | the body anyways
        
               | chairhairair wrote:
               | If we only ever wanted to reconnect nerves of fetuses
               | that might be relevant.
        
               | knome wrote:
               | There's no reason to be glib. If patients' brains can
               | reconfigure following trauma such as strokes [1] or
               | having our entire visual field flipped [2] there's no
               | reason to assume one couldn't reroute around having
               | nerves hooked up differently.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK326735/ [2] htt
               | ps://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/nov/12/improbable
               | ...
        
               | tsavo wrote:
               | Can speak from personal experience. Traumatic incident
               | which severed the nerves to my leg in multiple places.
               | Nerves eventually regrew and reconnected within the leg,
               | and then again where they were severed in the foot.
               | 
               | Motor and senory nerves reacted differently.
               | 
               | When motor nerves reconnected, I still couldn't contract
               | the muscles and went through a series of steps to relearn
               | how to use the limb. First I was trying to "move" the
               | leg, but effectively the "IP address" for the leg was
               | changed so my "move" signals were going to where my head
               | thought the leg was instead of to the new connection.
               | Instead, I would estim a specific muscle and "listen" in
               | my head for where "noise" was coming from. That "noise"
               | was the electric buzzing from the estim'd muscle
               | contraction. Eventually, I learned how to concentrate to
               | make a muscle contract, and many steps later (pun
               | intended), I learned to walk again.
               | 
               | Sensory nerves didn't need a push signal, they're like a
               | constant inbound feed when connected. When the sensory
               | nerves reconnected, it is something you definitely
               | notice. Going about your day, and suddenly you feel an
               | jolt, like being shocked, and over the next few hours to
               | days the area that is reconnecting is burning, stinging,
               | feels like it is being crushed by pressure, and cold all
               | at the same time. It was much more intense than when your
               | arm falls asleep. The sensation can be maddening but it
               | eventually passes as your body begins to sort and
               | acclimate the signals.
               | 
               | All of these steps on calibrating the sensory nerves and
               | learning how to contract and coordinate muscles is
               | something we take for granted as people usually sort it
               | out when they're infants.
        
               | oneshtein wrote:
               | Did you use any medication to help nerves regrow, like
               | Lion's Mane or something like that? We have plenty of
               | injured soldier here, in Ukraine. I'm looking for
               | something cheap and effective to help them recover from
               | injuries.
        
               | azalemeth wrote:
               | I've had exactly these experiences following a spinal
               | injury -- fracture of a vertebra but with minimal cord
               | damage and quite a lot of disruption to the dorsal root
               | ganglia.
               | 
               | You can't put into words how weird it is to fall over
               | because your brain thinks your foot is somewhere it
               | isn't. Or how suddenly you become incredibly aware of how
               | the front of your calf feels. Or how overjoyed you are to
               | be able to move your toes again for the first time in a
               | year. It's not like what you see on the movies.
               | 
               | Wallerian degeneration -- yes, degeneration -- is part of
               | the healing process of some grades of nerve injury.
               | Things literally get worse before they get better, as the
               | fragment left of the crushed axon degenerates to its root
               | and then regrows. It's incredibly slow -- around 1mm/day
               | at most -- and a matter of probabilities. What's also
               | worth mentioning is that there are plenty of internal
               | nerves too, where restoring function after a trauma would
               | be life-changing -- like the Vegas nerve, which buggers
               | up lots of things if damaged slightly, or, in my case,
               | some of the nerves in the fundus and neck of the bladder,
               | meaning that my toileting is really very different than
               | it was before.
               | 
               | I'm glad you're doing better, and hope you continue to do
               | so. I've no idea if the device the article is talking
               | about will ever help, but nerve injuries cause so much
               | disability worldwide I'm glad they're continuing to be
               | worked on.
        
               | avg_dev wrote:
               | Thanks to both of you for the amazing descriptions. And
               | continued good luck.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Amazed congratulations to you and parent. I can't imagine
               | going through that, but then I imagine you wouldn't have
               | chosen to either. Hope things continue improving.
               | 
               | Your description also made me reflect on infants, and
               | whether we effectively "feel more" in that stage, as our
               | nervous systems are self-calibrating and adjusting gain.
        
               | kwhitefoot wrote:
               | This and the parent comment really should be at the top
               | of this page. They are the best descriptions of how this
               | sort of thing works in practice I have encountered. And
               | while they tell how difficult and slow it all is I feel
               | that they could give hope to others that some sort of
               | recovery can be possible even without new advances in
               | treatment.
        
               | dotnet00 wrote:
               | Except the arrangement starts to matter more and more
               | with age.
        
               | garba_dlm wrote:
               | depends on the person
               | 
               | most old people actually matter less and less with age
        
             | 2devnull wrote:
             | No.
        
             | inglor_cz wrote:
             | Unless they get weird and turn cancerous, or some kind of
             | strange Ethernet-eating bug attacks and eats them etc.
             | 
             | Regenerative medicine of living tissues is extra hard.
        
             | waste_monk wrote:
             | Imagine that the bundle of cables were all completely
             | identical and unlabelled in any way. Even if you could
             | surgically reconnect the nerves perfectly, you don't know
             | which nerves should be connected to what on the other side.
             | 
             | As another commenter posted, there are 31 "bundles" of
             | nerves carrying a total of a few hundred thousand
             | individual fibres. The odds of re-connecting a human spine
             | correctly are simply incredibly small.
        
         | xwdv wrote:
         | The class of problems that falls under the category of movement
         | of matter is fairly trivial.
         | 
         | Repairing severed nerves is more like an entropy-reversal class
         | problem. I don't think we could even put a sufficiently broken
         | tea cup back together exactly as it was.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | finite_depth wrote:
         | It might help to remember that a human body has more cells than
         | there are people on Earth by around three orders of magnitude,
         | and that you're engineering things on the scale of nano- or
         | micrometers.
         | 
         | A typical human cell is on the order of 10 micrometers. If you
         | need to bridge even 1 cm of that, you're bridging ~a thousand
         | cell-widths. If you think of a cell as the somatic equivalent
         | of a house in a city, that's the equivalent of an
         | infrastructure project spanning (based on a quick count of the
         | number of houses on each block in Oakland) the equivalent of
         | around six miles, or roughly from downtown Oakland to El
         | Cerrito on a map of the Bay (~4 BART stations). And you have to
         | do that on a scale where precision manufacturing is incredibly
         | hard, where you're dealing with extremely difficult problems of
         | chemical synthesis, in a living body, without provoking the
         | body's defense or repair mechanisms to stop you. And that's
         | assuming you even know what you're trying to do, which requires
         | an understanding of the machinery of those cells that we often
         | don't have.
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | Some neurons can be extremely long though (up to 1m).
           | 
           | https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/human-
           | biology/ne...
        
         | duckmastery wrote:
         | Well if you think about it. The microscopic scale inverted in
         | the other direction is more like getting to mars and the
         | complexity is the same as creating a self sustaining colony
         | there.
        
         | havnagiggle wrote:
         | Some things turn out to be hard to do.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | Yes, and a lot of those things are done.
           | 
           | It's just interesting the way we've progressed.
        
         | HL33tibCe7 wrote:
         | You're not thinking hard enough
        
         | tibbydudeza wrote:
         | Ever tried splicing fiber optic cable by hand compared to say
         | telephone wire ???.
         | 
         | How does the bus protocol work - it is not like it is 5V/-5V ,
         | it is insanely complex ???.
        
         | throw1234651234 wrote:
         | People think medicine is way more advanced that it actually is.
         | We can't add back some crystals on a tooth. We can't re-attach
         | a nail to a nail bed. We can't fix cartilage. We can't
         | physically repair arteries (short of donor material) or
         | varicose veins. List goes on and on.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | Is that interesting? It seems natural. Precision has always
         | been quite hard. Most people can kick a ball 10 m more easily
         | than they can kick a ball 1 m but to center the hit at a 1 mm
         | spot. I can carry a pile of sand 100 m easier than I can move 1
         | grain of sand precisely 1 cm without disturbing the others
         | around it.
        
       | tired_and_awake wrote:
       | University hosted announcements (e.g. rice.edu announces a major
       | breakthrough) have incentives that are so out of wack it's
       | basically clickbait at this point.
       | 
       | Researchers oversell their results for publishing and funding
       | purposes. Then the university oversells those results to draw in
       | students/investors.
       | 
       | Curious if others feel the same way or if I'm just too cynical at
       | this point...
        
         | anoxor wrote:
         | 30 % of physics and chemistry can't be replicated. 70 % of soft
         | science can't be replicated. Most of what we know about
         | sociology may just be fake, and given that a huge foundation of
         | progressive thought around rase, sex, and gender is based on
         | this, this is a big problem.
         | 
         | at a minimum, this isn't far off
        
           | OnlineGladiator wrote:
           | > 30 % of physics and chemistry can't be replicated.
           | 
           | Is this true? I left academia a long time ago, but I'd be
           | surprised if it's that good. I'd actually suspect it's the
           | inverse and only 30% can be replicated.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | Who knows? Most science nobody attempts to replicate. The
             | major stuff yes, but small things are not worth the cost or
             | time.
        
         | beambot wrote:
         | I understand the cynicism. Academic reporting is a _hard_ &
         | thankless gig.
         | 
         | The non-cynical version: Half of a researcher's job is
         | disseminating results -- to other researchers & the populace at
         | large. I'd much rather have excited university announcements
         | (even over-reaching ones) than the rage-porn news that
         | dominates the airwaves & "mainstream news" homepages.
         | 
         | Besides: Any serious researcher will just revert to the actual
         | peer-reviewed source material. It was linked in the article.
         | Here it is: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41563-023-01680-4
         | 
         | And here's the PDF:
         | https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.24.477527v2....
         | 
         | As someone who has peripheral knowledge in this space
         | (piezeoelectric & magnetostrictive devices and neural
         | stimulation & recording): I've never seen a magnetostrictive
         | material capable of developing a DC bias. Further, driving the
         | device in a non-resonant mode for neural stimulation is even
         | more new to me -- that's quite fascinating, and I'd say that
         | article lives up to the hype from my 1000-ft vantage. I.e. This
         | was effective reporting.
        
           | imnotdang wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | That makes me think of this comic on the news cycle:
         | https://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | codeisawesome wrote:
       | Would it be possible in a sci-fi near-future to transplant a new,
       | lab-grown vertebral column, using something like this?
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | Imagine a lab-grown vertebral column where nerve signals travel
         | at electric current speeds.
        
           | jmprspret wrote:
           | Don't nerve signals already travel at electric current
           | speeds?
        
             | adrianN wrote:
             | No they are much slower, on the order of a few dozen meters
             | per second.
        
           | newZWhoDis wrote:
           | CS:GO and StarCraft would need new leagues
        
         | dghughes wrote:
         | I think the spine is far more complex than the average person
         | is aware of. From what I have read it has some basic
         | reaction/thinking capabilities which may be beyond what can be
         | made by humans.
        
           | jddj wrote:
           | Mine needs to learn to just be quiet and follow instructions
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | speaking of scifi
         | 
         | I wonder... especially after reading about people developing
         | limbs or fingers they don't have:
         | 
         | "Some of CTRL-Labs' goals are mind-bendingly exotic, like
         | training a model for controlling extra fingers.
         | 
         | https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/6/17433516/ctrl-labs-brain-c...
         | 
         | I wonder if we could augment/cross our nerves to control things
         | we normally can't control? what if we could release hormones on
         | demand, like maybe release adrenaline or calm down?
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | Bought by Facebook years ago.
        
           | jillesvangurp wrote:
           | Reminds me of a few hilarious plot points in a few Ian Banks
           | novels. One of them, the Hydrogen Sonata had this passage:
           | 
           | "Is it true your body was covered in over a hundred penises?"
           | "No. I think the most I ever had was about sixty, but that
           | was slightly too many. I settled on fifty-three as the
           | maximum. Even then it was very difficult maintaining an
           | erection in all of them at the same time, even with four
           | hearts."
           | 
           | Silly as this is, Ian Banks had a way of taking the mere hint
           | of the possibility of a thing to it's logical extremes. His
           | characters change sex, regrow limps, or morph themselves into
           | a different alien species basically in an orgy of hedonism
           | and utopianism. Definitely science fiction/fantasy when he
           | wrote it but eerily close to becoming science fact as time
           | progresses.
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | Banks' most apt futurism was that give the ability to do
             | anything, only a few people would use it to do something
             | interesting.
        
       | amitprayal wrote:
       | Great hope for paralyzed people, I hope it not so expensive that
       | its only for a few millionaires
        
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