[HN Gopher] Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" ...
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Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]
Author : LinuxBender
Score : 16 points
Date : 2023-10-10 21:53 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| dexwiz wrote:
| Sure, its carbon free, but NOx (NO, NO2, N2O etc) are really
| terrible greeenhouse gases and one of the main causes of smog.
| Catalytic convertors are there just to address this and try to
| mitigate the problem since all fuel contains a small amount of
| nitrogen compounds. Let's hope they don't replace one GHG with
| another.
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| I think it's a closed system, fuel cell, no?
| isilofi wrote:
| Better really hope it is closed. Ammonia is no fun. Imagine
| the stink and effect of tear gas, plus eating your tissues,
| plus eating through metals and concrete when splashed. Oh,
| and if you think "well, i've got some ammonia cleaner
| somewhere, it isn't too bad". Well, that is the dilute watery
| kind, anhydrous ammonia is much much worse.
| KiwiJohnno wrote:
| I'm not buying this at all.
|
| People freak out about EV battery fires now (never mind that this
| is not actually the problem it is made out to be), can you
| imagine the hazmat situation from a couple of cars carrying who
| knows how many KG of Anhydrous Ammonia crashing into each other?
| I mean, you might make the fuel tanks extremely robust (and
| heavy) but fuel lines etc will still break. Ammonia in the air at
| 300 PPM will cause SEVERE injuries to anybody in the area not
| wearing a respirator.
|
| And how are you supposed to fuel these cars? Have you seen the
| PPE you have to wear when handling Anhydrous Ammonia?
| 369548684892826 wrote:
| > People freak out about EV battery fires now (never mind that
| this is not actually the problem it is made out to be)
|
| Looking like quite a problem over in Luton
|
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073...
| almost_usual wrote:
| Now imagine when a large earthquake hits a place like San
| Francisco.
|
| Most of the damage from the 1906 quake was caused by fire.
| sindriava wrote:
| So what was on fire in 1906? Presumably cars were not
| nearly as widespread. Has anything relevant changed since
| then?
| scrlk wrote:
| > Within three days, over 30 fires, caused by ruptured
| gas mains, destroyed approximately 25,000 buildings on
| 490 city blocks. The fires cost an estimated $350 million
| at the time (equivalent to $8.08 billion in 2021).
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_San_Francisco_earthqua
| ke#...
| almost_usual wrote:
| > So what was on fire in 1906?
|
| The entire city, if you're asking what started the fire
| ruptured gas lines caused quite a few.
|
| > Has anything relevant changed since then?
|
| The city is full of Lithium Ion batteries that can burn
| uncontrollably when crushed or punctured. These fires
| cannot be extinguished quickly unless special chemicals
| are used.
|
| SFFD has 43 engines and 19 ladder trucks for context
| https://sf-fire.org/about-sffd-operations.
| hondo77 wrote:
| Lots. Of. Wood.
| sindriava wrote:
| I fail to see anything related to EVs in that article.
| isilofi wrote:
| Plus the level of technical protection necessary for refueling.
| With gasoline, you spill-proof the floor, maybe suck off the
| fumes, that's it. With ammonia, all connections have to be air-
| tight. You'll have to vent the tank through a pressure-relief
| line and then condense the ammonia, because you must not
| release it into the atmosphere. Ammonia spillage will eat
| through concrete, many metals and tarmac, so either you get
| very expensive high-grade stainless steel floors or very
| expensive ammonia-proof plastic floors. And your ammonia-
| refueling-station will still stink to high heaven...
| Arrath wrote:
| Where did they even come up with the idea to use anhydrous
| ammonia as a fuel? Did some tired engineer suggest it as a jest
| at the tail end of an exhausting meeting and, to their horror,
| it was moved forward? This reminds me of rocket scientists
| trying out ever nastier and deadlier chemicals in the early
| days of space exploration.
| scrlk wrote:
| > This reminds me of rocket scientists trying out ever
| nastier and deadlier chemicals in the early days of space
| exploration.
|
| An engineer at Toyota must be a big fan of John Clark's
| "Ignition!", or Derek Lowe's "Things I Won't Work With"
| series.
| [deleted]
| butppl wrote:
| Reminds me of Sony trying to rent seek off license fees for
| popular storage formats like Memory Stick.
|
| Toyota is pulling a Canonical who wrote their own desktop. Toyota
| will flop... again, after hydrogen... trying to win it all.
| cyanydeez wrote:
| Toyota failed in capturing EV by betting on hydrogen fuel.
|
| They still can't admit they missed the boat.
| ClassyJacket wrote:
| Toyota will do anything except take electric cars seriously.
| Shame. They were the industry leaders with hybrids.
| johnea wrote:
| Toyota, along with all other Japanese auto makers, have
| developed the worlds most long running internal combustion
| engines.
|
| Now, electric is threatening to completely eliminate their
| market advantage of high longevity cars.
|
| So, they'll come up with any excuse not to switch away from
| complex mechanisms. Since this is their primary advantage in
| the market.
|
| Hybrid, which is still a gas powered vehicle, is even more
| complex mechanically. Having both an internal combustion AND an
| electric power train, with a complex mechanical transmission
| for allowing both to run at once.
|
| So while hybrid cars where even more in the Japanese expertise
| of long lasting mechanisms, electric vehicles are in the exact
| opposite direction. Etremmely simple mechanically.
|
| It is sad. Not only did they lead with hybrids, they also led
| when the US "big 3" were so entrenched and had allowed their
| products to become crap, because no one really had a choice.
| Then Datson, Honda and Toyota brought very small, inexpensive,
| high reliability vehicles to the US, and were massively
| successful.
|
| It's so ironic that now they want to sell bloated "luxury"
| vehicles, just likje the US big 3.
|
| They've become the pox they originally succeded by
| countering...
| [deleted]
| gumby wrote:
| I thought they solved their "gearhead" problem by ejecting the
| last CEO, a Toyoda. The new one seems to be wearing the same
| blinders.
|
| They are doomed if they keep whistling past the graveyard like
| this.
| holoduke wrote:
| I expect Toyota to come with a nuclear powered fuel cell car next
| year. Drive your car for 50 years without taking external
| charges. Easy to maintain and very safe.
| 000ooo000 wrote:
| "The design is very human"
| legohead wrote:
| Toyota is so weird about their EV stance.
|
| What I particularly like about EVs is their low maintenance. You
| remove many components that are required with ICE. Regenerative
| braking makes your brake pads last a crazy amount longer. And now
| with this ammonia engine we are adding even more components to
| the vehicle? No thanks. Not to even mention the fuel distribution
| problem.
| isilofi wrote:
| You like "low maintenance". Car companies don't. A significant
| part of their business is tied to replacement parts and their
| chains of brand dealerships and brand workshops. With EVs, that
| whole gravy train might end, or at least loose a lot.
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