[HN Gopher] Amazon launches Project Kuiper satellite internet pr...
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Amazon launches Project Kuiper satellite internet prototypes
Author : rbanffy
Score : 41 points
Date : 2023-10-08 19:37 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cnbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cnbc.com)
| lazystar wrote:
| looking forward to the day I can turn off DSL - Godspeed.
| bovermyer wrote:
| So... this is a competitor to Starlink?
|
| I'm all for additional competition in that space. I am, however,
| concerned that Weyland-Yutani... I mean... Amazon is doing it.
| [deleted]
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| [flagged]
| Borg3 wrote:
| [flagged]
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _kids downvoting because they have basicaly zero clue about
| issue_
|
| Educate me on the space junk problem at 500km. Not visual.
| The "can't launch anything due to orbital debris" one.
| Borg3 wrote:
| You wrongly assume that everything will always go as
| planned. Disasters happens due to whatever reason. The
| problem is, more junk you will put into orbit, more stuff
| can go wrong. I think we can use those orbits for more
| importand stuff that Internet for the masses. We can build
| terrestrial infra to handle that. But yeah, that would mean
| distributed control, and we know what corpos wants :)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _wrongly assume that everything will always go as
| planned_
|
| No, I'm assuming the physics of orbital mechanics. If
| everything goes to shit, every object at 500km will decay
| into the atmosphere in ten years.
|
| > _we can use those orbits for more importand stuff that
| Internet_
|
| In the next ten years? You're conserving a fake resource
| based on a misunderstanding of physics to pillage our
| natural environment?
|
| > _that would mean distributed control, and we know what
| corpos wants_
|
| Comcast is controlled distributedly?
| Borg3 wrote:
| [flagged]
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _there are states where it is done correctly /better_
|
| Where is terrestrial internet controlled in a distributed
| manner at scale?
|
| > _I still see it as waste_
|
| You called out an issue based on impossible physics.
| Proposed a hypothetical alternative that does not exist
| and won't within the relevant time frame. And now retreat
| to essentially an aesthetic argument based on subjective
| preference.
|
| I'm genuinely curious what motivates not correcting one's
| assumptions, or at least moderating them?
|
| You said "we can use those orbits for more importand [
| _sic_ ] stuff." I agree! You want to know how we make
| that happen? Cheaper launch costs. How do we do that?
| More-frequent launch. Human spaceflight occurred in three
| eras: not, the V2 and Starlink. Private spaceflight and
| reusability is cool, but Starlink prompted an order-of-
| magnitude shift in how humans interact with space. Add to
| that the problem you cited literally not existing--we
| cannot block ourselves from LEO, it's physically
| impossible--and you can see how your assumptions actually
| counter your aims.
| wmf wrote:
| It is indeed mostly no longer a concern. The rules are much
| stricter now so less space junk is being created. Hopefully
| within a few years we'll reach "net zero" and then start
| reducing orbital debris after that.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _How many years until we can't launch anything due to orbital
| debris_
|
| An infinity.
|
| One, these are in LEO. At 500 km [1] their orbits will
| naturally decay in a decade [2]. Two, Kessler Syndrome doesn't
| actually result in cutting off access to space [3].
|
| [1] https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/innovation-at-
| amazon/amazon...
|
| [2] https://www.spaceacademy.net.au/watch/debris/orblife.htm
|
| [3]
| https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&d...
| seltzered_ wrote:
| It sparks the same questions people have about starlink - how
| long do the satellites last in orbit before they need to be
| replaced? How do they impact astronomers? How sustainable is
| satellite internet?
|
| Saying this in light of:
|
| - how many satellites are in orbit - this chart showing the
| change over recent years:
| https://astrodon.social/@Astromeg/111164811749991554
|
| - this thread a while back speculating about starlink:
| https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1563158073694310401.html
| perihelions wrote:
| It went up on an Atlas V rocket because of the Vulcan delays. It
| was originally meant to fly on the first demonstration flight of
| Vulcan. (I think that's why it's an oddly undersized payload--
| only two satellites).
|
| https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/08/amazons-first-internet...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_Systems#Test_satellites
|
| - _" The two satellites, likely weighing a few hundred kilograms,
| are the sole expected payload on the Atlas V rocket that is
| otherwise capable of deploying 8 metric tons into low-Earth orbit
| "_
| mcpackieh wrote:
| Amazon bought 9 launches on Atlas V back in 2021 (this is the
| first one fulfilled). ULA stopped selling Atlas V launches in
| 2021, so after the next 8 like this Amazon will be reliant on
| Vulcan, which they've purchased 38 launches with:
| https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/08/amazons-first-internet...
|
| They also bought launches on Ariane 6 and New Glenn, neither of
| which exist yet either..
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| Bezos is like the little brother that has to copy what his older
| brother does.
| Afforess wrote:
| Even if this was true, so what?
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Depends - what is better for the rest of us? A competitor to
| starlink, or Bezos using his absurd wealth to do something
| completely different and possibly world shaping.
| perihelions wrote:
| Well, from the fine article, for example:
|
| - _" It has booked 77 launches - deals that include options
| for more launches when needed - from that trio of companies
| to deploy the satellites fast enough to meet regulatory
| requirements. That massive purchase has come under scrutiny
| from an Amazon shareholder lawsuit, which alleges the company
| snubbed SpaceX for valuable satellite launch contracts
| because of Jeff Bezos' personal rivalry with Elon Musk."_
|
| Far from irrelevant celebrity gossip, that personal
| relationship between America's two top oligarchs is a
| powerful factor shaping America's space industry. Apparently
| some Amazon investors believe Kuiper would be, and should be,
| a SpaceX client, if not for Bezos' and Musk's personal
| rivalry. (I'd go a step further and suggest both Kuiper and
| Blue Origin wouldn't even exist without that factor. Mine's
| not a fringe view. Kuiper particularly looks like a long
| shot, because it's directly fighting against SpaceX's biggest
| strength: large-number launch economics. Of all the ways to
| try to get a foothold in the new space industry, the Kuiper
| approach is one of the least logical).
| GravityLab wrote:
| Indeed. Some friendly competition makes the products better
| for everyone.
| booleandilemma wrote:
| Parent is most likely an eldest sibling ;)
| tracer4201 wrote:
| [dead]
| coderjames wrote:
| Blue Origin was founded in 2000 and SpaceX wasn't founded until
| 2002 so I think you have that a little backwards. A more
| accurate comparison would be that Elon is like the little
| brother who one-ups the older brother at his own game.
|
| Also, Bezos isn't the CEO at Amazon anymore and hasn't been
| since mid 2021, so blaming any Amazon decisions in the last two
| years on him is just misinformed.
| mcpackieh wrote:
| > _Also, Bezos isn 't the CEO at Amazon anymore and hasn't
| been since mid 2021, so blaming any Amazon decisions in the
| last two years on him is just misinformed._
|
| More than 20 years of leadership leaves a mark that doesn't
| fade so fast as that. Most of Amazon's present management and
| leadership was hired and advanced during Bezos's tenure.
| giobox wrote:
| Right, and he still owns ~12 percent of Amazon's shares
| regardless of not being CEO anymore - of course he still
| has some degree of influence, and his strong dislike of
| Musk and SpaceX isn't exactly a secret.
|
| I suspect we will not be seeing Kuiper cargo on a SpaceX
| rocket ever, costs be damned, if it can be avoided...
| basementcat wrote:
| There is currently a shareholder lawsuit concerning
| Amazon choices of launch providers. There are arguments
| for and against Amazon paying SpaceX for launch services.
|
| For:
|
| * SpaceX is very price competitive
|
| * SpaceX may be able to launch sooner than other launch
| providers (Amazon may be able to "outbid" other customers
| for Falcon payload capacity)
|
| * Every Falcon (or Starship) carrying KuiperSats is _not_
| carrying Starlink satellites. SpaceX uses Starlink
| launched as a way to tune and optimize the Falcon launch
| platform. Launching KuiperSats potentially hurts the
| SpaceX launch vehicle and Starlink programs in subtle
| ways.
|
| Against:
|
| * Social media trolling
|
| * SpaceX does not have a good reputation for working well
| with other companies and has been suspected of destroying
| at least one customer's optical communications terminals
| https://spacenews.com/darpa-satellites-damaged-at-
| processing...
| [deleted]
| GravityLab wrote:
| Mr. Bezos is a little older than Mr. Musk. :)
| GravityLab wrote:
| That was a solid launch. Congratulations Project Kuiper! Godspeed
| on more launches ahead.
|
| I enjoyed the ULA coverage of the launch. Nice and relaxing.
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