[HN Gopher] An implantable device could enable injection-free co...
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An implantable device could enable injection-free control of
diabetes
Author : thebigspacefuck
Score : 143 points
Date : 2023-10-08 02:09 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.mit.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.mit.edu)
| dave8088 wrote:
| " Most patients with Type 1 diabetes have to monitor their blood
| glucose levels carefully and inject themselves with insulin at
| least once a day."
|
| Once a day lol. Tell me you don't know anything about Type 1
| diabetes without telling me you don't know anything about type 1
| diabetes.
| [deleted]
| epilys wrote:
| If you have type 1, you too can lead a normal life if you don't
| do any physically demanding activity, eat nothing, have no
| stress, do not get any common infection like the common cold,
| do not have any natural metabolic rate changes.. etc etc /s.
|
| There are so many things that affect blood sugar both in the
| short and long run. T1D treatment is constant correcting for
| the past hours, not just the moment and future.
|
| I wish it was easier to communicate this to people and
| journalists, because there are so many misconceptions like the
| one quoted here that makes T1D an even more invisible
| disability.
| t-writescode wrote:
| Heya! You seem knowledgeable about this. What is a normal
| amount?
|
| Thanks!
| terminalcommand wrote:
| One fast acting insulin per meal and one long term insulin a
| day, 4 at minimum if you eat 3 meals. Most of us use insulin
| pumps where we can get insulin any time we want.
| stranded22 wrote:
| Before being on an insulin pump, my wife would be injecting
| 1-2 times a day with long acting insulin (to manage
| background levels) and then at least 3 times a day with food
| - not just meals, snacks too (and if levels running high). So
| realistically, 8-10 times a day would not be uncommon.
|
| That's after 3-5 times a day finger pricks too.
|
| Now, she just has the pain of the libre once a fortnight and
| pump every few days (along with finger pricks when the libre
| is out).
|
| People do not realise how all consuming T1D is - she has to
| be on the ball all the time. If she isn't, then her numbers
| screw up and she can't drive (or live, tbh).
|
| This project could make a huge difference to her life - but
| there are always 5-10 years away
| kakoni wrote:
| At the moment open source artificial pancreas systems are
| way to go.
|
| Have you checked androidaps or loopkit?
| stranded22 wrote:
| I had a look over the years - the libre can pretty
| unreliable with levels, so I am concerned about someone
| else's life being in jeopardy if I made a mistake (would
| be different if it was my own - I'd have done it a long
| time ago)
|
| She's waiting for a closed loop system from her hospital
| - should be within the next few months (omnipod is due an
| upgrade). That said, I'll check out androidaps and loop
| kit, thank you!
| ninjin wrote:
| The Libre has been life changing for me, but in
| particular during sleep I do find that the levels can be
| _very_ unreliable if you end up sleeping on the same side
| as where you have attached the sensor.
| bdcravens wrote:
| I have a Dexcom, and it's frequently 10-20% off of manual
| finger sticks. When paired with my pump (Tandem T-Slim)
| it keeps me in a good range, but still not perfect.
| [deleted]
| nonplus wrote:
| I briefly used the libre 3, and found it very accurate
| (but was skeptical as the 2 and 1 could not even warn you
| about a low/we're passive) and durable. Currently on the
| Dexcom G7, waiting for support for either of these with
| my pump.
|
| The libre3 and G7 seem to be leaps and bounds better than
| anything else I've used (G4, G5, Guardian 3).
|
| I hope you two find something that works well!
| Scotrix wrote:
| I'm actually using the Libre + Omnipod Dash with a closed
| loop and it works pretty well (almost ,,flat" blood sugar
| with a few spikes here and there) beside that's, for me
| as tech nerd, cool to inject insuline with my phone :-).
|
| Those are the pieces I'm using on my iPhone:
|
| https://nightscout.github.io/ -> to store historical data
|
| https://github.com/Artificial-Pancreas/iAPS -> to connect
| the libre and pump and control the pump and make the
| close loop
| paulcole wrote:
| > At the moment open source artificial pancreas systems
| are way to go.
|
| He said confidently lol.
|
| I won't give up multiple daily injections (Lantus morning
| and night, Humalog with meals and for corrections) unless
| I absolutely have to. Diagnosed in 2014 at around 30
| years old. Been 5.5-5.9 A1C for the past ~6 years. Maybe
| one scary low a year and able to keep up with my marathon
| running and live a semi-normal life.
|
| No clue why I'd want to mess with that to try some hacker
| project.
| terminalcommand wrote:
| Another T1 here, fast-acting insulin wasn't invented until
| recently. One large dose of mixed insulin and a fixed diet may
| have been prescribed back in the day.
| consp wrote:
| Before fast acting there was human analog, this is also
| somewhat short term. What was quite common for a while was
| the mixed insulins (the cloudy ones you would have to make
| sure mixed before injecting) which you took twice a day. The
| same could be achieved with individual doses of course. In
| general the very long acting insulins are highly variable and
| not much subscribed (as in they work between 12 and 48h, good
| luck if it varies a lot).
|
| Long story short, NPH insulins for medium length (about 18h
| to a day but still lots of variation) was available since the
| 50's and was usually combined with normal human analog in
| either a mixture taken twice a day or in separate doses. I
| was on the twice a day regime of mixtard for most of the
| 90's.
| terminalcommand wrote:
| Thank you for enlightening us, I was diagnosed around 2004.
| At that time, fast acting insulin was the norm. But I knew
| that some patients used mixed insulin.
|
| I still know T1Ds who continue to use mixed insulin,
| because it works for them.
| eep_social wrote:
| Lantus was approved in 2000. Diagnosed in early 2001, I
| spent maybe six months on NPH before they got me switched
| over. There's also regular which is a mix of nph and fast
| acting, I still hear of people using that now as it works
| okay and is very cheap.
| eep_social wrote:
| > Another T1 here
|
| There are dozens of us! Dozens!
| blackle wrote:
| > generates oxygen by splitting water vapor found in the body
|
| This will also generate hydrogen. Is there any mention in the
| paper about what happens to the waste hydrogen? I can't get past
| the paywall and I'm curious
| Expez wrote:
| The article says it will "diffuse away" which implies they just
| let it escape the device. It'll then move through the tissue /
| fluids, reach the blood and eventually be breathed out. I did a
| quick google search to see if we already had some level of
| hydrogen gas in our body.
|
| It seems that bacteria in the human gut already produce some
| hydrogen gas and that breath contains measurable levels of
| it[0]. This was news to me, but means that dumping a tiny
| amount of H2 into the body is probably fine.
|
| [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-013-7606-6
| jaggederest wrote:
| Hydrogen in the body is not normally a problem. It's such a
| light gas that it diffuses out the lungs readily, if it's in
| diatomic form, and your body has good mechanisms for dealing
| with ionized hydrogen already.
|
| Most people's gut already produces hydrogen (normal levels at
| or below 16ppm in breath)
| CommitSyn wrote:
| That's in the gut, but I wonder how that works when it's
| pumped out into the subcutaneous fat layer.
| kadoban wrote:
| It's an interesting question, but I suspect it's not a big
| deal. H2 is _very_ good at escaping, doesn't really do
| anything biologically, and our bodies already have ways to
| get rid of small amounts of gas from various places.
|
| I'm curious if it'd just do the same thing that CO2 does.
| That might all just be governed by physics and there
| probably isn't much chemistry involved in that being
| expelled after it's generated in cells?
|
| I looked up the solubility of H2 in water, and it is _much_
| worse than CO2's, so maybe that does suggest it'd at least
| not use the same mechanisms to escape, not sure.
| willcipriano wrote:
| Something like this happens:
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD-3vE_R7p8&pp=ygUoY2hhcmxpZSB...
| bookofjoe wrote:
| https://archive.ph/QFUXb
| idontknoworcare wrote:
| [flagged]
| cursuve wrote:
| I like how you think you just found the cure to Type 1
| Diabetes...
|
| It doesn't work like that. People on keto/carnivore still need
| insulin to digest the protein and proteins will still
| eventually elevate the blood sugar.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9416027/
| GordonS wrote:
| Doesn't that only work for T2 diabetes?
| jmercouris wrote:
| Why does the radio antenna need to be outside of the body for
| energy harvesting? Why not just use a pair of terminals in that
| case?
| scotty79 wrote:
| "A tuned magnetic coil located outside the body transmits power
| to a small, flexible antenna within the device, allowing for
| wireless power transfer."
|
| Energy reciever is completely inside the body and the energy
| transmitter completely outside. Piercing skin for prolonged
| times is generally a very bad idea because it's a channel for
| infection.
| jmercouris wrote:
| I see, thank you! I had totally misunderstood.
| alexcaps wrote:
| I would love to finally see some progress here. Worked on
| something similar 20+ years ago and got so burned out by the
| process and huge amount of capital needed.
|
| https://www.inknowvation.com/sbir/companies/solgene-therapeu...
|
| " Solgene Therapeutics' patented drug-delivery technology enables
| the encapsulation, in a porous ceramic material, of living cells
| that secrete therapeutic compounds. After implantation, the
| material shields the encapsulated cells from the host's immune
| system while allowing passage of nutrients and therapeutic cell-
| secreted compounds. Implanted cells continue to function, thus
| mimicking natural processes. Solgene believes it can create
| competitive advantages in under-served biotech markets. It seeks
| revenues through alliances to commercialize hard-to-deliver,
| cell-secreted, large-molecule therapies. Solgene proved its
| concept by overcoming diabetes in diabetic mice. Target
| applications include delivery of livestock therapies, growth
| factors for bone healing, and a cell-secreted HIV therapy."
| wolverine876 wrote:
| For the oxygen supply there's a techology, already widely used,
| that runs 24/7 with no marginal maintenance cost. It takes O2
| from the environment and outputs waste as a gas back into the
| environment, has a distribution system that can reach the entire
| body, and even its own pump that is self-repairing and typically
| lasts 70-100 years.
|
| Seriously, why not extract O2 from the bloodstream? Is it that
| difficult? I don't doubt they considered this option; I just
| wonder what the issues are.
| CommitSyn wrote:
| Speaking as a layman here.
|
| I do know which one is safer, as to gain access to blood you
| have to gain access to a vein, likely by inserting a small tube
| made of [something] inside the vein, expect it to never break
| down and enter the bloodstream, become compromised, or be hit
| with an impact and tear the vein open to create internal
| bleeding. Then you also have to have a system to get rid of the
| waste blood (everything but the small amount of oxygen you
| want) all entirely within a closed system implanted into the
| arm, thigh, etc.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| > vein
|
| Artery - not a lot of O2 in veins.
|
| But other than nitpicking defensively, I agree those good
| points. I'd still like to see what any actual bio-whatever
| engineers have to say.
| nonplus wrote:
| Also a layman (but t1d), I believe what you are saying is
| correct/Insulin is injected into fatty tissue, and I presume
| this implant would go in fatty tissue. Getting to a vein
| sounds like a much higher risk.
| XorNot wrote:
| This is the coolest bit of biotech I've seen lately because the
| approach feels very complete: custom cells so the device is self-
| regenerative, and an encapsulation system so it's protected from
| the immune system.
|
| It does make you wonder what else could be done: i.e. could we
| implant some cells which produce antivenom?
| chpatrick wrote:
| Or drugs like in Culture.
| inhumantsar wrote:
| Out of all the wild future tech in those books, a universally
| accessible easily controllable gland capable of pumping out
| whatever molecules the body could use, from hormones to party
| drugs, still stands out as the single most beneficial thing
| possible.
| CommitSyn wrote:
| As a kid I had an idea for a pill that would do that. I had
| no idea how it would work if course, but I thought one day
| in the future we could have a pill that you took that
| detected issues with the body and produced the needed drugs
| to fix it, so nobody needs to take a bunch of pills or the
| wrong pills. I'll have to read it.
| onetokeoverthe wrote:
| [dead]
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