[HN Gopher] Capital Inefficiency
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       Capital Inefficiency
        
       Author : cdme
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2023-10-05 23:10 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cutlefish.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cutlefish.substack.com)
        
       | debarshri wrote:
       | It is interesting because right before the macro conditions went
       | haywire, when we were raising capital for our current startup, we
       | often got responses like, Oh, well, you guys are not from SF, or
       | you should build your team in SF; all the action is here.
       | 
       | It is true that action is still in SF. But suddenly, the VC
       | ecosystem has started appreciating capital efficiency as we are
       | building quite a large team in India. It has its own issues, but
       | overall, you can be really competitive with a Bay Area startup. A
       | 2 million-dollar venture may take two years for a Bay Area
       | startup, whereas if you have a team in India or elsewhere, it
       | goes way further. People talked about moat, hype etc. before the
       | downturn now everything is talking about capital efficiency
       | (which I think is good)
        
       | bugglebeetle wrote:
       | The current market conditions in the US seem more like a Capital
       | strike than "Capital inefficiency":
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_strike
       | 
       | The pandemic created both labor shortages (and thus higher wages)
       | and improved conditions for many workers. Capital owners are now
       | doing everything in their power to claw back those gains, though
       | not without newly-emboldened resistance from organized labor.
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | This seems like an overly simplistic "capital owners
         | greedy/labor-good-capital-bad" kind of take. I don't know if
         | you've applied for any tech jobs recently but at least outside
         | of super-senior and FAANG positions that I'm familiar with,
         | it's pretty brutal. When I applied for my current role I was
         | basically going against 3-4 other people and we all matched
         | about 80% of the qualifications for the role. My boss is hiring
         | right now and within a day received over 100 applications, and
         | as of last week he has at least dozen who fit 100% of the
         | qualifications for a comparable role to mine.
        
           | bugglebeetle wrote:
           | That's not really in conflict with anything I wrote? Firms
           | are colluding on layoffs to force these kinds of conditions
           | and drive down wages.
        
             | Plasmoid wrote:
             | What do you mean by collusion? Do you mean an explicit
             | agreement like the old FAANG no poaching agreement? Or
             | something more subtle?
        
               | bugglebeetle wrote:
               | Return to office is largely layoffs in disguise, all of
               | FAANG is doing it, and have more or less explicitly
               | stated that they have no rationale beyond "we can make
               | you do this, so we are." As you pointed out, they already
               | conspired in the past with their no poaching agreements,
               | so draw your own conclusions.
        
               | IX-103 wrote:
               | Yep. Not too mention the actual layoffs that are going
               | on. If you actually look at the hiring for the companies
               | with these layoffs then you find that they are actually
               | growing their workforce while still announcing layoffs.
               | That seems almost designed to depress wages...
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | You left off that the response to the pandemic in the US
         | revived a marker for capital that hadn't existed for 15 years,
         | and made all other risk taking much more expensive
        
           | bugglebeetle wrote:
           | High interest rates are certainly erasing some forms of
           | irrational allocation that can't be sustained under them
           | (e.g. all the crypto stuff), but the collusion between firms
           | on things like return to office, wage suppression, and price
           | gouging is largely independent of them.
        
             | yibg wrote:
             | You keep talking about collusion. Do you have any
             | supporting data to back this up?
        
               | soupfordummies wrote:
               | What if it's not a decision made in a smoky back room
               | behind closed doors but rather monkey-see-monkey-do/"hey
               | we can get away with it"?
               | 
               | Definitely is weird to say the least. Even small
               | companies often have HUGE investment firms behind them of
               | course.
        
               | thrway63245 wrote:
               | This is exactly what you would have said the last time
               | there was proven collusion. It takes a while for the
               | proof to come out, but as the sibling comment says: it's
               | awfully convenient that all the RTO policies and layoff
               | ratios are in alignment.
        
               | bugglebeetle wrote:
               | Every FAANG simultaneously decided they needed to layoff
               | roughly the same percentage of workers, and even more
               | through return to office, with no justification or
               | demonstrated impact on profits, productivity etc, they
               | share large investors, and oh, yes, they all got busted
               | for colluding in the past? It's all pretty much out there
               | in the open.
        
               | IX-103 wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
               | alexashka wrote:
               | Collusion is the default human condition. It is absence
               | of collusion that has to be proven.
               | 
               | Or are we assuming governments around the world are
               | effectively preventing collusion of multi-national
               | corporations? Now _that_ would require incredible proof.
        
             | nyssos wrote:
             | Those things don't constitute a capital strike. Businesses
             | don't suppress wages to strongarm the government, they
             | suppress wages because they want higher profits. Likewise
             | with prices.
             | 
             | Return to office might be more organizational pathology
             | than rational self-interest, but it's still not an attempt
             | to influence policy.
        
               | sharts wrote:
               | > Businesses don't suppress wages to strongarm the
               | government,
               | 
               | They do threaten to relocate operations overseas. And
               | when they do, the wages paid may indeed be "higher" than
               | average in the new regions.
        
             | anon1199022 wrote:
             | That crypto part is an assumption. If you want real
             | irrational allocation, check back to office and how and of
             | capital overlords are pushing it for no rational reason.
        
         | willcipriano wrote:
         | Margins are up across the board from 2021 onward:
         | https://fortune.com/2022/03/31/us-companies-record-profits-2...
         | 
         | There is room for workers wages to go up but right now the
         | higher prices are mostly benefiting investors and owners.
        
           | cperciva wrote:
           | Margins _need_ to be up in order to pay for the increased
           | cost of capital.
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | If they were paying lots for capital, they'd have lower
             | margins.
        
             | hotnfresh wrote:
             | You don't pay costs out of margin. That's what's left after
             | costs.
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | Own capital costs are exactly the thing that margins pay
               | for.
        
             | steveBK123 wrote:
             | Not quite right.
             | 
             | I'd argue the reason you want higher margins in a higher
             | interest rate environment is the "risk free rate" is now
             | higher.
             | 
             | If the risk free rate is basically 0%, you'll invest in a
             | risky business that makes 5% margin. If the risk free rate
             | is 5%, now you want the risky business investment to have
             | 10% margin to be worth the same investment.
        
             | roenxi wrote:
             | Adding in that the economy was partially parked up through
             | COVID and the risks of being shut down by the government
             | turn out to be much higher than people realised hitherto.
             | Margins need to go up in that sort of environment to push
             | everything back to how things were pre-pandemic, otherwise
             | nobody will bother. Not many are crazy enough to put lots
             | of money into low-margin businesses that are at high risk
             | of being shut down. Capitalists are greedy but not stupid.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | >Developers: "Am I a good developer? Are there 10x developers?
       | Were those high-profile things I worked on now on the cutting
       | room floor worth it? What does it mean to be an effective
       | developer these days?"
       | 
       | This hits hard. Along with the "please don't fire me" line at the
       | end.
       | 
       | After spending so many years watching so many people do such
       | great work together which amounted to nothing, I'm left wondering
       | where to go at this point.
        
       | RivieraKid wrote:
       | Regarding worsening conditions for tech workers - my theory is
       | that this is because tech is particularly sensitive to interest
       | rates. Software developers are often building products that will
       | start making money in the distant future. With interest rates
       | going up, the present value of these future cash flows goes down.
        
         | sharts wrote:
         | Hopefully this will result in a more conservative approach to
         | tech with a greater focus on immediate needs vs long-shots in
         | the distant future which tends to result in winner-take-all for
         | the victors.
        
         | yowlingcat wrote:
         | Very nice way to explain a concept that usually takes me
         | several paragraphs.
        
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