[HN Gopher] Show HN: An app store just for installable web apps
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Show HN: An app store just for installable web apps
Author : presson
Score : 152 points
Date : 2023-10-05 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (store.app)
(TXT) w3m dump (store.app)
| jollyllama wrote:
| Where can I learn about making these, specifically for offline
| use?
| spacec0wb0y wrote:
| https://web.dev/progressive-web-apps/
| explain wrote:
| This UI is so hot.
| presson wrote:
| Thank you! :-)
| tacoship wrote:
| Sweet domain! Was it expensive?
|
| Feedback: The home page's horizontal carousels/reels lack
| trackpad scrolling functionality. Interaction is limited to the
| arrow buttons on the side. To enhance user experience, it would
| be beneficial to make them scrollable via trackpad, similar to
| the Apple Store website.[0]
|
| [0] https://www.apple.com/store
| bgoldste wrote:
| Asking the important questions.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I'm going through this very thing now. I'm focused on getting
| the backend features working, but getting pressure to make
| the tiny tweaks to the UI. Once you open the UI to actual
| users, priorities quickly get rearranged. The UI complaints
| are the punch in the "everyone has a game plan until they get
| punched in the face" phrase.
| presson wrote:
| Thank you! It was pricey, but not as bad as it could've been. I
| pre-ordered it a month before .app became available as a TLD,
| and bought it on the first day of availability (May 2018!).
| I've been planning on building this for some time :-P
|
| Re carousel feedback - thank you! We've talked about this but
| have been prioritizing some other features ahead of it. That
| said, your feedback helps us prioritize higher. Keep the
| feedback coming, the more the better! Also if you want to
| connect offline, lmk.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Just to 2nd it. I came to the comments first, but after
| visiting the site, it does feel unnatural. Also to pile on,
| having to multi-click the next button one at a time per app
| feels tedious.
|
| Seeing how you are at this stage though, color me very
| impressed. I've just never paid attention to PWAs, so seeing
| them available like this gave me a totally different
| (positive) consideration for them. I would love to see
| numbers of use just to see how widely used PWAs are. This
| isn't an idea for the UI for popularity per app, but just for
| PWA in general. Just in terms of if this is something I
| should be considering. Great job and good luck!
| presson wrote:
| Noted, and thank you!
| coder543 wrote:
| I like the concept a lot, but I also think it should filter to
| _only_ installable apps by default. If you detect a user is on a
| mobile device, it would probably also make sense to enable the
| mobile filter by default too.
|
| It would also be nice if there was an offline-capable filter as
| well, but maybe I missed it?
|
| I also notice the Developer tab is not part of the PWA, which
| kicks you out of the PWA experience on iOS, even though it seems
| like that marketing page could be contained within the tab? It
| might also be nice to link to resources for getting started on
| developing a high quality PWA, if any resources like that exist.
|
| Now that PWAs on iOS can finally show notifications (if the user
| wants), I hope more developers will take them seriously. I trust
| browser isolation more than I trust native app isolation, and a
| lot of the native apps that I use would work perfectly as a PWA.
| presson wrote:
| Thank you, this is great feedback. What to show and when has
| been an ongoing convo - we chose to evolve this based on supply
| side milestones. Keep an eye out for some cool updates :-). We
| don't yet have the ability to filter by offline-capable, but
| that's a great idea. Re the dev tab, this is a work in progress
| - right now a few things are split apart, but we'll be folding
| everything back together at some point.
|
| Re notifications, 100% agree - this was a major roadblock. The
| next few years are going to be very interesting :-P
| matsz wrote:
| > PWAs on iOS can finally show notifications
|
| This has been such a great addition, once it was officially
| added I've quickly built a small web app that can now
| distribute notifications to all my devices effortlessly, with a
| single codebase and with no need to pay the dreaded $99/yr
| subscription. Haven't released that publicly but I might at
| some point once I clean up the mess that inevitably resulted
| from me writing it in around 2 hours.
| kyleee wrote:
| Did you use a framework or anything? I've been working on a
| small vite/vue/nuxt PWA and I've been wondering about other
| options
| matsz wrote:
| Just React and fastify. I have my own authentication
| library that makes things easier but it's not production
| ready yet.
| collaborative wrote:
| I really hope your store takes off. I will say a prayer or two to
| this end. May your good character flourish and may you avoid all
| temptations that come with gatekeeping
|
| Apple and Google's app stores are death. They motivated me to re-
| code my c and java-based iOS and Android apps in js+wasm
| (SPA/PWA) from scratch. For a long time, I announced it with its
| proper name ("PWA"). I became very frustrated every time I
| interacted with users who asked "what does that mean?". So now
| it's simply "Web Version"
| presson wrote:
| Thank you! We have a very strong ethos around democratizing
| distribution and we plan to be careful not to go down a path to
| becoming what we hate. We're here to serve developers and
| users, and we'll look for guidance from our user base
| constantly. Re "PWA" I can empathize - I've found that for the
| majority of people, "installable web app" seems to register
| more effectively, but hoping that "PWA" becomes more broadly
| understood. Thanks again for the comment, and we look forward
| to serving you :-)
| matsemann wrote:
| I'm surprised by how much easier and faster this is than
| installing an app from Google Play. No ads above what I really
| searched for. Installation is basically instantaneous.
| raybb wrote:
| I love it! Please consider adding openlibrary.org which has a PWA
| already.
| presson wrote:
| Thank you! Added to our backlog - will be added soon!
| presson wrote:
| Listing is now live! :-)
| ledbettj wrote:
| Pretty cool! I tried to list my app but the screenshot upload
| doesn't seem to work -- it won't accept any files I've tried via
| drag/drop in Chrome or Firefox. I've been able to upload files to
| other sites without any issue (running Linux).
| presson wrote:
| Thank you for the feedback, we're looking into this. In the
| meantime, you should be able to upload from your files if the
| images have the correct aspect ratio. If you continue to have
| issues, ping me at support@store.app and we'll make sure
| everything gets sorted out.
| ledbettj wrote:
| Actually, it's my own fault -- I assumed the area in the
| preview that said I hadn't uploaded any images yet was the
| drop target, but it's not, that's over in the sidebar.
| Cheers!
| presson wrote:
| Ohhh gotcha - that's still good feedback, though - we will
| try to make that more intuitive!
| tomaszs wrote:
| Congrats. That is a project of the future!
| presson wrote:
| Thank you! :-)
| simonbarker87 wrote:
| Very nice, one issue is that (on Safari iOS 16) when I navigate
| back to the list my scroll position is forgotten, I could
| understand when using my browser back button but I used the one
| in the UI so I'd expect it to remember the scroll position.
|
| Beyond that nitpick though this is excellent, well done.
| presson wrote:
| Noted! Thank you for the feedback and the kind words! :-)
| tamimio wrote:
| I love it, maybe finally developers will no longer be under the
| mercy of apple/google store! Probably the only thing PWA fails to
| do now that anything needs access to the hardware say
| wifi/Bluetooth scanner and such, and big games too, the rest of
| the apps, I don't see why it needs to be installed from app/play
| store.
| presson wrote:
| Thank you! That's our hope. The open web is making some major
| strides, so the next few years will certainly be interesting
| :-)
| JanSt wrote:
| Chrome offers bluetooth support, doesn't it?
| hunter2_ wrote:
| It's in this list [0], indeed.
|
| [0] https://permission.site
| matsz wrote:
| Really good idea, what I'd suggest would be a separate Open
| Source category/tag. And a dark theme (based on prefers-color-
| scheme).
|
| Also, submitted a developer application; have released a few PWAs
| myself - hope to post them there too!
| presson wrote:
| Awesome, thanks for the feedback! That's a great idea - I've
| posted it in our internal channel. Also, you should have been
| approved for a dev account - we're excited to have you onboard!
| Please feel free to let us know how we can help - our mission
| is to help web devs grow their business.
| matsz wrote:
| Thanks, works well - just one small bit of feedback there:
| wish there were some hints on aspect ratios for the
| screenshots (or they should be displayed at the image's
| aspect ratio). Currently the sides get cut off:
| https://store.app/drop-lol
|
| Also, would be nice to have a "more by this developer"
| section. (Or any other "similar to" recommendation section.)
| jshchnz wrote:
| this is real cool, and nice domain
| presson wrote:
| Thank you! :-)
| xnx wrote:
| Darn. Was really hoping this was something like a more universal
| version of the "Deploy to Heroku" buttons
| (https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku-button)
| soperj wrote:
| Nice! I attempted adding my webapp. Do you have a template that I
| could add to my site (ie: add our app)?
| presson wrote:
| Awesome! Were you able to add it successfully? We have a widget
| that you'll find under your claimed app to showcase your
| listing states, and we have a few more things that you can use
| on your app coming in about a week. If you're interested in
| early access, shoot me a message at support@store.app and we
| can show you what's coming.
| matthewhartmans wrote:
| This is sick! Congratulations on the launch!
| presson wrote:
| Thank you!!! This means the world to us :-)
| donmcronald wrote:
| How do PWAs hold up when it comes to updates or getting a new
| phone? Will they get re-installed when I set up a new phone?
| hunter2_ wrote:
| I've had them go missing just by doing an OTA update of my
| phone, and I don't think it was even a major Android version.
| Or maybe it was a Play store update of the Chrome app, I forget
| exactly. But it was one of those things that's not expected to
| eliminate data, yet it did.
|
| I think it was this:
| https://support.google.com/android/thread/120942877/all-my-w...
| CranberryDefuse wrote:
| Really nice idea and superb website, thank you. I wish we could
| submit without register though.
| hbcondo714 wrote:
| > List your app in under 2 minutes
|
| How? I would like to list my finance PWA[1] but I had to create a
| regular account first and now wait for approval on a developer
| account to submit an app.
|
| [1] https://github.com/hbcondo/revenut-app
| presson wrote:
| Hi! You should've been approved for a developer account. I
| suppose the delay could go past two minutes. We'll be speeding
| up this process soon. Hopefully in aggregate it only took you
| less than two mins :-) If you have any issues, ping me at
| support@store.app!
| hbcondo714 wrote:
| Thanks! I got downvoted for my comment but your response was
| worth it. I got approved in 15 minutes, but I'm not counting!
| It wasn't mentioned DNS verification is required for app
| submissions but that is good you are doing that. Now I need
| to go through the Google Domains / Squarespace transition:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36346454
| pietervdvn wrote:
| Hey @presson,
|
| I signed up as dev to get my webapp listed. I stumbled upon your
| priced plans, and was wondering what a 'direct download link' is
| and why I would pay $10/month for it.
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| How are you sourcing the current listings?
|
| I see there's a "list your app" (which means I can't submit an
| app that isn't mine, right?), but there are some high quality
| installable PWAs that are missing. Hoppscotch is a good example.
|
| Not expecting you to index the entire internet and filter out all
| the spam. Just curious how the current list was built.
| presson wrote:
| That's correct, at the moment you can only add an app that you
| can claim ownership of (vis dns). The current list was manually
| added by us + by devs who have listed their apps on our site,
| but we'll be rolling out a more scalable solution soon, along
| with some better curation. I think that's a good idea to allow
| users to recommend listings - we'll look into adding that soon.
| Would love for you to create an account so we can keep you
| posted on this feature / other progress :-)
| dylan604 wrote:
| maybe a "suggestion box" method for people that know of good
| sites so that you might contact the dev directly about being
| listed?
| jsf01 wrote:
| This is such a great idea. Excellent design, too. I second the
| requests for dark mode or at least following the user's prefers-
| color-scheme setting.
|
| Do you have ambitions to monetize this, or go the open source
| route? Where do you go from here?
| thekingshorses wrote:
| PiHole blocks the email verification link/domain.
| presson wrote:
| Thank you for posting this! Have noted for our team to look
| into.
| willsmith72 wrote:
| This is awesome, as PWAs get better I really REALLY hope they'll
| challenge the big app stores. So far no one I know outside of
| tech knows or cares that this is even possible, but I hope sites
| like this will gradually change that and also change people's
| perceptions of what has to be a "native" app.
|
| I don't see any reason why in 10 years we should still be paying
| the 30% tax (+ the $100/year) just to get something with
| notifications and offline on the home screen. Sadly there's
| literally hundreds of billions on the table, so there's going to
| continue to be huge resistance.
| hunter2_ wrote:
| When I install something from those stores, I feel like there
| is some level of vetting against malware, or at least the
| ability for the store to pull it if it becomes known-malicious
| after I installed it. 30% might be too much of a fee, but some
| payment for that service makes sense, I think.
|
| Are PWAs somehow immune to this concern by virtue of running on
| the way stricter feature set that a browser offers? If they can
| prompt the user for access to all of these APIs [0], and the
| user allows it, and then it later becomes malicious while able
| to run a service worker in the background, that seems a bit
| more concerning than regular non-PWA browsing that can't
| continue to run after the tab is closed.
|
| [0] https://permission.site
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| > When I install something from those stores, I feel like
| there is some level of vetting against malware
|
| I don't.
|
| Google Play has served me malware on my device (touchpal)
| that went undiscovered forever. And tons of high search
| ranking apps are straight up scams or data harvesting fronts
| even if they aren't legally "malware." I feel more secure
| about web apps because _at least_ I am protected by the
| browser 's sandboxing/fingerprinting protection (and in my
| case Cromite's extra blocking).
|
| IDK about iOS, but Google Play is a dumpster fire. I hope it
| burns to the ground.
| willsmith72 wrote:
| I totally agree, the security issue is the biggest thing app
| stores have going for them. I think 2 things.
|
| 1. if momentum goes PWA's way, smart people will work on
| these problems. I'm not saying I have the answers, but if I
| can root for either 2 megacorps or the open web, I'm going
| open web every time. (again, not saying we're there yet with
| PWAs)
|
| 2. If an app store's only function is vetting software, we
| can have an open market for marketplaces. Anyone can build
| their own app store and, with enough reputation, become
| trusted in the eyes of consumer's, just like we trust Apple
| The difference is in a free market, that 30% and $100 drop
| dramatically, I would wager to something more like 5% and $0.
|
| At those rates, having an app store where people feel the
| software is secure, can trust reviews/ratings etc seems
| reasonable to me. PWA doesn't have to mean otherwise
| coder543 wrote:
| Service workers aren't a magic "run forever in the
| background" technology.
|
| I'm fairly sure PWAs can't run in the background at all on
| iOS or Android, except for possibly a brief moment after the
| PWA receives a notification, and the service worker doesn't
| have access to much of anything during that interval. If
| anyone can link to something that demonstrates otherwise,
| okay, but I have checked on this in the past, and I don't
| think so.
|
| Native apps have been caught with their hand in the
| metaphorical cookie jar over and over again. The App Store
| review process is largely ineffective. Apple apparently
| didn't even realize that apps were doing sketchy things with
| the clipboard until it became a major headline[0], and this
| is only the tip of the iceberg of "things App Store review
| didn't catch".
|
| Native apps _continue_ to find ways to bypass sandboxing that
| the OS applies.
|
| Browsers naturally take a much more adversarial posture
| against the code they're running, so the sandboxing is far
| stronger.
|
| Apple has spent at least a decade marketing[1] to convince
| people the App Store is synonymous with safety, because they
| want their 30% cut. The marketing campaign seems to be
| working too well. In reality, the browser seems to be
| substantially safer, although nothing is perfect.
|
| [0]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/tiktok-
| and-53-other-...
|
| [1]:
|
| https://apple.com/app-store/
|
| "The apps you love. From a place you can trust. For over a
| decade, the App Store has proved to be a safe and trusted
| place to discover and download apps."
| yieldcrv wrote:
| nobody outside of tech cares
|
| they already use web apps with optional notifications
|
| anybody developing mobile apps knows that almost nobody
| downloads the company's app, and it's just there for vanity and
| clout
| willsmith72 wrote:
| > nobody outside of tech cares
|
| Yeah i know, hence "So far no one I know outside of tech
| knows or cares that this is even possible, but I hope sites
| like this will gradually change that and also change people's
| perceptions of what has to be a "native" app."
|
| > anybody developing mobile apps knows that almost nobody
| downloads the company's app, and it's just there for vanity
| and clout
|
| What do you mean here? Did you mean to say PWAs?
| yieldcrv wrote:
| not PWAs, I'm saying that ios/android apps dont have much
| traction for most companies
|
| many of the reasons are that discovery is bad , and many
| people have run out of space on their phones, and generally
| just aren't interested in another app
|
| but PWAs solve this by at least letting people experience
| your service
| hanniabu wrote:
| What are the security concerns with something like this? Can PWAs
| contain malicious code? If yes, what can they do?
| pietervdvn wrote:
| A PWA is nothing more then a glorified web site, which opens
| full screen.
|
| Security-wise, they cannot do anything worse then a website
| can. In other words, this is _less_ then a native app can do.
| rexreed wrote:
| Any advice for PWA developers who are trying to make use of
| possibly attached hardware? I'm looking to build a POS app that
| needs to connect to a receipt printer and scanner, but having
| trouble finding support for the printer bit. Trying to avoid any
| pop-up dialogue that requires user confirmation.
| presson wrote:
| Join our discord and there are likely some people who can help
| https://discord.gg/tFquNjuK
| willhackett wrote:
| You may need to look at some sort of hybrid configuration. A
| daemon to communicate with hardware, but the user experience
| built within the PWA.
| KRAKRISMOTT wrote:
| If you don't need iOS, WebUSB should do the trick.
| mouse_ wrote:
| What a tragedy that what used to be called "installing" is now
| mocked by the industry lobby as "sideloading", and what used to
| just be "visiting a web page" has taken its rightful place.
|
| I have not and probably will not ever "install" a "web app". This
| is literally just a list of web sites. It's no more useful than
| Yahoo circa 1998 but now the bookmarks are on your desktop or
| homescreen rather than in your browser, where you're going to be
| taken anyways if you open one of them.
|
| Call me a cynical boomer.
| bko wrote:
| I like the idea of "installing" a web app that basically
| creates a bookmark to a webpage, because the alternative is
| installing an actual app. It's nice to have things all
| basically browser based as it gives the developer more control
| of the product and creates a single reasonable platform. I hate
| going to linkedin or Reddit or similar websites on mobile and
| them forcing me to use their app. It also breaks the dominance
| of centralized app stores like android and apple
| JohnFen wrote:
| > It's nice to have things all basically browser based as it
| gives the developer more control of the product and creates a
| single reasonable platform.
|
| I get that. But as a user, I really hate browser-based
| applications and avoid them entirely unless I have no other
| option.
| bko wrote:
| What do you prefer? Native apps?
| JohnFen wrote:
| Yes. Although this depends a lot on the quality of the
| software, native apps tend to be much better in terms of
| UI and performance, and they tend to use less system
| resources -- sometimes a _lot_ less.
| holoduke wrote:
| Nowadays i would argue that the css rendering speed is
| faster than the Android UI renderer which suffers from
| extreme complexity. Ios might be still faster, but also
| much more limited. A good SPA is indistinguishable from a
| native app.
| coder543 wrote:
| > A good SPA is indistinguishable from a native app.
|
| Exactly. It's like CGI in movies. People always talk
| about how bad CGI is, without realizing just how much
| good CGI they never notice.
|
| https://youtu.be/bL6hp8BKB24
| majikandy wrote:
| Apps that are just a web app inside an app container are
| even worse though!
| presson wrote:
| You're a cynical boomer :-P
|
| But really, I think you'll change your mind at some point.
| There's some pretty cool stuff coming.
| thekingshorses wrote:
| I m that cynical boomer.
|
| I use mostly apps like Whatsapp, and garage door opener.
|
| Can't use banks apps as you can only login to one account.
|
| Everything I do is on the browser. https://hn.premii.com &
| https://reddit.premii.com - almost 10 years old, it still
| works. No need to update the framework or need someone's
| approval.
| mouse_ wrote:
| Anything I wouldn't be able to do by just going to the
| website? :/
| presson wrote:
| Off the top of my head for ios - push notifications,
| offline use, optimized storage options (local storage not
| cleared after 7 days of no use), app-like ux (no browser
| controls), home screen icon for easy access, background
| audio (sound while app is closed).
|
| The real advantage is for devs who can build an app that
| feels like a native app, but with one codebase for
| distribution across OSs/devices, not having to pay the
| apple/google tax, and not dealing with app review.
| _hzw wrote:
| I made my web app into a PWA and even went so far as to
| polish the home screen icon and splash screen to make it
| look nice once installed. However, in the end, I use the
| browser much more frequently, simply because I can access
| the URL of the page and share it elsewhere.
| presson wrote:
| The beauty of the browser is that you can choose your own
| adventure. Being able to use or test apps in a browser
| tab is awesome, and it's up to the dev to choose a ux
| that showcases / informs the user of additional
| capabilities unlocked after adding to home screen. We're
| at the very early days of exploring what this ux can
| unlock.
| aragonite wrote:
| Also, on a desktop, some websites are just more naturally
| run in their own separate window than as a browser tab
| because you frequently need to switch to/from them: e.g.
| ChatGPT, Gmail, Google Voice/Keep, MDN docs,
| dictionaries.
|
| And you can put the PWAs in full sceen mode, whereas
| full-screen mode in a regular browser is almost always
| pointless ever since they took away tab indicators.
| tamimio wrote:
| Your average person now think of anything as an "app" or it
| should have one, even if it was just a wrapper for a browser,
| they would still install the app (1), so I think OP is in the
| right direction, nothing will change from the user side but
| much better for the developer one.
|
| (1) Reminds me of this :) https://files.catbox.moe/36o4jr.jpeg
| presson wrote:
| This is our hope. If we can help smooth out the messaging /
| install process, once a PWA is installed most apps will feel
| identical to a native app for most users. We used to say "web
| apps are apps" but now we just say "apps are apps" :-P
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