[HN Gopher] Booking.com makes a fortune - so why is it leaving i...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Booking.com makes a fortune - so why is it leaving its bills to
       hotels unpaid?
        
       Author : ksec
       Score  : 201 points
       Date   : 2023-10-05 16:56 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | jimt1234 wrote:
       | This reminds me of a job I once had that was about 50% travel;
       | the company required employees to charge travel expenses to their
       | personal credit cards, saying they would be reimbursed. The
       | company consistently dragged its feet on the reimbursement,
       | sometimes for several months. They scrutinized reported expenses
       | to an absurd level, or simply refused to pay. I once had a
       | layover on a flight (because the company required the least
       | expensive flight, which was generally not direct) that was
       | cancelled. I was stuck in Denver for 9 hours, waiting for an
       | available flight. I got something to eat and reported it as a
       | travel expense. Denied; I was told the expense didn't occur in
       | the city where I was working, so it was personal, not business-
       | related. A colleague had her credit card maxed with business
       | travel charges, and could only afford to make the minimum payment
       | for several months. She requested the company pay the interest on
       | the carried charges. Take a guess how that went? Denied. She
       | ended up quitting, and last I heard the company refused to
       | reimburse her because she was no longer an employee. I ended up
       | quitting, too. But yeah, this article reminded me of that
       | situation. When it's known that you're basically powerless to
       | collect on a debt, you can expect to get screwed.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | Why not name and shame?
        
         | justinclift wrote:
         | The "Denied" are probably only "Denied" because you didn't want
         | to push back hard.
         | 
         | You could always take them to court (even small claims court)
         | or just outright get debt collectors involved.
         | 
         | Probably better once you've quit though. ;)
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | why wait until after you quit? before you quit you get to use
           | your worktime to deal with the lawsuit (just because) and if
           | they harass you at work for suing them, you add that to the
           | lawsuit. if they fire you, add that too.
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | I suppose many of us are lucky to work in high-margin software
         | businesses. I spent 15 years often travelling for work
         | (typically very distributed companies) before the pandemic.
         | Four separate companies. Everything paid on my personal CC. I
         | preferred it that way so that I could optimize the flights/etc
         | to make it fit my personal life. Everything reimbursed swiftly
         | with zero questions since I never did anything _really_ stupid.
         | The only real bottleneck was myself; filing all of those damned
         | receipts for every trip.
         | 
         | Having some kind of centralized travel booking service that
         | "took care of everything" would likely have caused me to find
         | another job. For one company I did a monthly 6h travel + a few
         | days of hotel + 6h travel thing for a decade. Not being in
         | total control over that would simply not have been feasible.
         | 
         | I have no idea how people doing a large amount of travel for
         | stereotypical low-margin large companies manage to get by.
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | > high-margin software businesses.
           | 
           | I've heard similar stories to this from people working at
           | high-margin software businesses before too.
           | 
           | It could be something along the lines of "depends which team
           | you're in", as to who's being screwed over or not.
        
             | tpmx wrote:
             | That's a great sign your company actually sucks and you
             | should quit. Probably likely: It wasn't actually a high-
             | margin company.
        
           | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
           | > Having some kind of centralized travel booking service that
           | "took care of everything" would likely have caused me to find
           | another job
           | 
           | Having worked at both kinds of companies, I vastly preferred
           | having a travel agent that took care of everything.
           | 
           | For example: one time I had a later flight with a layover.
           | The initial flight was delayed on the tarmac before takeoff,
           | and immediately upon landing, a person called me telling me
           | there were no more flights that evening to my final
           | destination, but they'd already booked me a hotel near the
           | airport and the first flight out in the morning to my final
           | destination, and asked me if I'd like any modifications.
           | Perhaps someone else who wants more control would like to
           | handle that stuff themselves, but for me, it was a massive
           | luxury to have an experienced professional automatically
           | smooth over any problem I encountered during my travel. I
           | certainly didn't miss keeping all my crumpled receipts and
           | submitting expense reports either.
        
             | tpmx wrote:
             | Yeah, that kind of service would have been awesome.
        
         | akamia wrote:
         | This is the reason why I refuse to pay for any work travel
         | expenses with my credit card.
         | 
         | I once worked for a company that had a similar travel process.
         | When I was asked to travel, I insisted that my VP have his
         | assistant schedule and pay for everything. When I arrived at
         | the hotel on one trip, the hotel asked me for a credit card to
         | pay for the booking. I stepped out of line and called my VP to
         | have him fax his card info to the hotel.
         | 
         | I understand this wouldn't work for everyone but I think it's
         | ok to question the policy and see how much flexibility there
         | is. In my case, I was able to avoid taking on personal
         | liability for my employer's expenses by pushing back and
         | working with my VP to find a solution that I was comfortable
         | with.
        
         | gamblor956 wrote:
         | While it's legal for employers to require employees to use
         | personal credit cards for work-related expenses, it's a huge
         | labor code violation not to timely reimburse employees for such
         | expenses.
         | 
         | As in, huge mandatory fines on top of reimbursing employees for
         | 100% of their costs (including interest and other charges
         | incurred related to late reimbursement) type of violation.
         | 
         | If you're not willing to name and shame here, please report it
         | to the state's Dept of Labor if this was within the past 5
         | years so current employees can be protected.
        
         | jiqiren wrote:
         | if this is US, file a wage claim with local state government.
         | Reimbursement for expenses while traveling is valid.
         | 
         | Depending on the state you can file many years later after
         | you've left the job. So feel free to get a new job and file a
         | claim with a spreadsheet of what they missed.
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | It's a wonderful business model. They are effectively just a
       | proxy for scheduling and payments, where they take no risk and
       | trim a bit of revenue off as payments fly by. Their biggest
       | hassle is probably the moderation of reviews.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Maybe they make a fortune just because they leave the bills
       | unpaid.
        
         | em-bee wrote:
         | that was my first thought too ;-)
        
       | bluecalm wrote:
       | It's interesting to see prevailing negative sentiment about
       | booking here. My experience is completely different: usually a
       | very nice place, no surprises, two times the host has done
       | something wrong (cancelled my reservation or didn't respond)
       | booking support was very quick to help me.
       | 
       | On the other hand I consider Airbnb to be a scam enabling company
       | that does everything to screw the customer and appease the hosts.
       | Their reviews are worthless as they remove mentions of problems
       | regularly and you will never know what you're getting until you
       | arrive at the location. Forget about getting your money back if
       | the host screws you as well - they will string you along from one
       | support call to another and then pretend none of this happened.
       | 
       | It's no surprise shady hosts prefer Airbnb to booking as it's
       | easier to keep your trap offerings online for longer.
        
       | Nextgrid wrote:
       | As a general rule, the reason a company does something nefarious
       | is that it knows it can get away with it.
       | 
       | We need to fix the broken & corrupt legal systems so that
       | companies have not just equivalent penalties like individuals
       | would (the equivalent of jail would be that all profits go to the
       | state for the duration of the "jail" term), but be given even
       | less leniency/benefit of the doubt since massive companies have
       | way more resources to investigate & comply with laws than
       | individuals do.
        
         | mouse_ wrote:
         | "We need to negotiate a better living arrangement with our evil
         | vampire overlords"
         | 
         | I'm not convinced
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | Oh, the EU shows that even the biggest corporations can be
           | brought to knee if they pull off too much bullshit. Apple had
           | to introduce USB-C and will have to open up their App Store
           | and NFC interface, Meta got slapped with a billion dollar
           | GDPR fine, Microsoft to this day has to sell European
           | versions of Windows that don't come with a media player or
           | that allow everyone to choose their default browser...
        
             | dantheman wrote:
             | The EU is just shaking down foreign companies because they
             | can't compete.
        
               | olddustytrail wrote:
               | Aww, is that what you tell yourself?
        
               | vertis wrote:
               | The EU is protecting it's citizens. You don't have to
               | spend very much time comparing the EU (and Europe in
               | general) to the US to find differences in philosophy.
               | 
               | US has a very individual centric attitude where everyone
               | is an temporarily inconvenienced millionare and Europe
               | has a much more collective attitude. I will take the
               | European attitude over the US one any day of the week
               | (and I'm from neither, I'm Antipodean).
               | 
               | Every billionare is a policy failure.
        
               | dotandgtfo wrote:
               | Not to mention that Booking.com is a European company
               | that has explicitly been targeted by the upcoming digital
               | markets act.
        
               | arp242 wrote:
               | Aside from the fact that booking.com is a Dutch company
               | (although Booking Holding is US, so who the hell knows
               | any more as I have no idea how that all fits
               | together...), no one is forcing anyone to do business in
               | Europe. If you don't like the rules then don't play;
               | that's fine, no hard feelings.
               | 
               | That's how it works everywhere, including in the US.
               | 
               | What you DON'T get to do is set the rules for OUR
               | countries. Several of these companies have been under the
               | misapprehension that's how things work, and they are
               | being (slowly) cured of that delusion (far too late, but
               | better late than never...)
        
               | _jal wrote:
               | You can phrase it in whatever way you prefer, but GP's
               | point remains - a fine measured as a percentage of global
               | revenue has been demonstrated to modify huge
               | corporations' behavior.
               | 
               | FWIW, I think the EU's recent legal behavior is only
               | about 1/3 foreign-company envy. There's a lot of
               | misguided do-gooderism and a large dash of control-
               | freakery, too, not to mention intelligence and LEO
               | wishlists.
        
               | isoprophlex wrote:
               | But look at what "to compete" means in the European point
               | of view, look at how they see the practices that you
               | describe as "being competitive": nefarious, unethical
               | practices to fuel growth for the hell of it. If they
               | can't compete on some short-term, enshittification-
               | causing metric, fine by me.
        
               | orwin wrote:
               | The EU has actually enforce anti-monopolistic laws, even
               | if it's quite slow. You should compare history of the
               | food industry in Europe and in North America, I think
               | this show well how much the US politicians changed over
               | the last 50 years.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | People don't go to jail for not paying their bills.
         | 
         | It's a case of "if I owe a hotel $200, that's my problem, if
         | Booking.com owes a hotel $200,000 that's the hotel's problem"
        
           | 83457 wrote:
           | Unless that bill is to the government.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | It has to be a lot more than 200k, but the principle still
             | applies.
             | 
             | If you owe some government 500 billion, you are probably
             | also a government.
        
             | maximinus_thrax wrote:
             | or to the ex spouse
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Unless fraud is involved, no. They might garnish your
             | wages, seize assets, etc. but you won't go to jail.
        
             | jimt1234 wrote:
             | I think it's even more true in this situation. If you or I
             | owe the IRS $2000, they're gonna come after us and get all
             | their money. But if EvilCorp owes the IRS $200-million, the
             | lawyers will argue about it for 3 years, and in the end,
             | EvilCorp will end up paying less than half of the original
             | amount.
        
           | gopher_space wrote:
           | If you can't make rent the police get involved at the end,
           | but society wouldn't really think of you as a person in that
           | scenario.
        
         | kbenson wrote:
         | > the equivalent of jail would be that all profits go to the
         | state for the duration of the "jail" term
         | 
         | For punishing corporations (for whatever legal reason) I would
         | rather see a percentage of c-suite compensation for a time
         | period (including end of year bonuses) confiscated, maybe along
         | with a fine based on profit (so stock values are hit as well,
         | so that both can't be used to avoid penalties and also to
         | signal to the market it's a bad idea).
         | 
         | The problem with fining a company is that often you hurt a lot
         | of the lower ranked employees that had no power and often no
         | knowledge of the problems, and usually weren't involved in any
         | way, sometimes to the point where they lose their jobs if the
         | company is hurting to a much larger degree than the people
         | running the company do, which is why punishing corporations is
         | sometimes hard.
         | 
         | We need to incentivize and punish the people that actually
         | decide the problematic policies and actions and not those that
         | just happen to be in proximity and/or are linked financially,
         | to the degree that we can (obviously it's hard and no perfect
         | solution exists).
        
           | yoyohello13 wrote:
           | I'll do you one better. I think the C-suite should just go to
           | jail, real jail. That will really incentivize the leadership
           | to play by the rules.
        
           | diogenes4 wrote:
           | I imagine they'd be a lot more responsive to prison time,
           | personally. A fine doesn't seem to capture the correct
           | incentives here.
        
             | plagiarist wrote:
             | Hear, hear. And more corporate lawyers should be getting
             | disbarred than the current status quo.
        
           | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
           | Why do you think it's any of the employees that are at fault,
           | even the c-levels?
           | 
           | Fine the investors. Everyone who owned a share when the
           | violation occurred takes a lick.
           | 
           | If you go after c-levels, what will happen is they'll devise
           | some sort of time deferred compensation avoids the penalties
           | you want to impose. The board needs a CEO after all, and CEOs
           | are reluctant to run a company if they know they'll just have
           | their paycheck confiscated.
        
             | MakeThemMoney wrote:
             | Why not both? Fine the company (i.e. investors), jail the
             | executives.
        
             | Analemma_ wrote:
             | I mean that's effectively already how it works: a fine to
             | the company _is_ a fine to the investors, because they own
             | the company (more precisely, a fine represents money which
             | is not getting paid back). And clearly that isn 't enough,
             | because this stuff keeps happening, that's why the GP and
             | others are brainstorming alternatives.
        
         | lefstathiou wrote:
         | Very simple solution: the US should implement prevailing
         | parties clause (prevailing party wins legal fees by default in
         | a lawsuit) as law of the land by default.
         | 
         | We had a guy in Australia trying to use our trademark, in the
         | US they would call my bluff and I would have to spend tens of
         | thousands to hundreds of thousands to sue. In Australia we sent
         | a polite letter, outlined our case that was pretty clear,
         | reminded him he would pay our legal if we escalated and made it
         | clear we would, and the result was immediate.
         | 
         | In short, companies shouldn't be incentivized to play game
         | theory on whether or not you will sue me if I trample your
         | rights.
        
           | MSFT_Edging wrote:
           | That sounds like an amazing way to empower corporate legal
           | bullying and copyright trolls, and ensure that no single
           | entity could ever take a company to court ever again.
        
             | V__ wrote:
             | How so?
        
               | msandford wrote:
               | Big company threatens to spend $100 million on the
               | lawsuit to make sure they win. By outspending you they
               | exhaust your funds and win by default. Then you go doubly
               | bankrupt when you have to pay their legal bills.
        
               | alasdair_ wrote:
               | In places where "loser" pays (such as the UK), rates are
               | capped at fairly low hourly levels and hours are also
               | capped (or at least there is a known "reasonable" number
               | of hours for a particular type of case).
               | 
               | Note also that the "loser" factors in offers to settle.
               | So if I offer you $10,000 to settle and you refuse and
               | the court awards only $5,000 to you, you are the one that
               | has to pay my legal bill, even though I am the one that
               | "lost".
        
               | lefstathiou wrote:
               | That's not how the calculus works actually. Today a
               | corporate bully can safely count on you being a rational
               | actor (and not spend $1mm to win $400k) and push the
               | envelop of competition and appropriation of data and
               | trade secrets with limited recourse. Under a prevailing
               | party construct, the risk of doing so is enormous.
               | 
               | Thus, in instances where they are objectively wrong, they
               | lose big. In instances you are objectively wrong, you
               | lose big. In instances where it is not black and white,
               | where there is merit to both sides of the argument, you
               | settle. All this is achieved with little intervention by
               | the courts.
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | the equivalent of jail time should be actual jail time.
         | 
         | determine which members of the executive team decided it was OK
         | to literally steal from people and put them in jail.
        
         | CM30 wrote:
         | Not even just compared to individuals, but even to smaller
         | competitors. If a smaller company acted like Booking did here,
         | they'd be sued into oblivion or out of business in no time.
         | Same with a shop that sold counterfeit goods as casually as
         | Amazon or an app store seems to, or one that fired people as
         | suddenly as Twitter/X did those months back.
         | 
         | The problem is that laws are basically just 'suggestions' if
         | you're rich/your company is rich, and life altering
         | consequences if you/your company is not.
         | 
         | There should actually be jail time for corporate leaders that
         | break the law, and the potential of being forcefully removed
         | from office or the company itself forced to shut down if poor
         | behaviour continues.
        
       | croisillon wrote:
       | it's the other way around: booking.com is leaving its bills to
       | hotels unpaid, and makes a fortune that way
        
       | davelondon wrote:
       | Their support is pretty bad.. they refused to refund a PS20
       | booking when the hotel was 500km away from where it was shown on
       | the map. There were no other contact options, so I took them to
       | the UK Small Claims Court... They paid up before the case went to
       | court.
        
       | robbywashere_ wrote:
       | why was hertz practically issuing arrest warrants? Because they
       | can. Malicious artificial intelligence is here. The boring part
       | is its these faceless bureaucracies they behave (intelligence?)
       | without responsibility or repercussions whatsoever. That AI
       | bogeyman your think of, its just going to be these kinds of
       | companies blaming it on amok algorithms, in place of which is now
       | some sort of 'failed process'
        
       | dreamcompiler wrote:
       | I had a few horrible experiences with Booking.com and the others
       | where I'd arrive at the hotel and they'd never heard of me, or
       | I'd ask for an extra day in person but the hotel couldn't help me
       | because I didn't book directly with them, or they didn't serve
       | breakfast but Booking said they did and the hotel was in the
       | middle of nowhere etc.
       | 
       | I finally wised up. Hotels basically hate guests who book with a
       | service like Booking.com and they will not lift a finger to help
       | you if anything goes wrong.
       | 
       | Now I use Booking.com, Kayak, etc to find hotels in the general
       | area I need, then use google or DDG to find the website of the
       | hotel (a process much easier said than done because the booking
       | sites SEO the hell out of search engine results), then book
       | directly with the hotel or its parent chain.
        
       | rurban wrote:
       | Because it's a perl shop
        
       | codr7 wrote:
       | I'm not touching booking.com again, and I recommend anyone else
       | to stay the hell away.
       | 
       | Made a reservation a few months ago, searched for hotel rooms
       | that would allow bringing a dog, and got a confirmation via
       | booking.com that said everything was ok. But when I arrived at
       | the hotel, I was informed that they don't allow dogs at all. And
       | since the reservation was made through booking.com, there was
       | nothing they could do about it. So I ended up paying for a hotel
       | room that no one slept in and have been given the silent
       | treatment from booking.com since then despite several contact
       | attempts.
        
         | dybber wrote:
         | I didn't get my refund after a trip was COVID cancelled in
         | 2020. The money had already been paid to the hotel, and the
         | hotel owner (in Marrakech) only wanted to promise me I could
         | come back in 2021. So they are not acting as an escrow as I
         | thought.
        
           | aunty_helen wrote:
           | CC charge back. I had this during covid with an online travel
           | agent that decided aeromexico was the one I should get
           | refunded by while aeromexico didn't want to know me.
           | 
           | He who takes your money has the responsibility. The travel
           | agent cried foul but what are they going to do.
        
           | olddustytrail wrote:
           | Always pay by credit card for such things. You can do a
           | chargeback if the service you paid for is not delivered.
        
         | andersrs wrote:
         | I just hate all the dark patterns that create feeling of
         | scarcity.
        
         | IKantRead wrote:
         | I worked for a travel startup for a bit, it was by far the
         | _most_ toxic org I 've ever worked for with a smiling disdain
         | for their users (meaning they would chat about how much they
         | loved users while actively implementing features that hurt
         | them). I learned talking to other people that this is pretty
         | par for the course for travel companies in general.
         | 
         | The biggest lesson I learned there: never book through a 3rd
         | party for travel.
         | 
         | For airlines the price is already dictated to not be lower than
         | the airline offers, you're far better just working through your
         | favorite airline directly. It makes it much easier change
         | plans, and anyone who travels a lot will agree not all airlines
         | are equal. I've learned to have a favorite airline and not
         | worry as much about _lowest_ prices.
         | 
         | Hotels _can_ be cheaper through a third party, but imho, not
         | worth the hassle of having your trip depend on an untrustworthy
         | middle man.
         | 
         | At most, use 3rd party tools as search engines, and then just
         | book directly.
        
         | dangerboysteve wrote:
         | This is a job for a chargeback from your credit card company.
        
         | jslaby wrote:
         | Yes, and it's the same issue with accessibility. My wife is in
         | a wheelchair and we always call directly to the hotel to make a
         | reservation, rather than going through these services. It only
         | took one time to never make that mistake again.
        
         | aurelius83 wrote:
         | Isn't that fraud?
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | So you tried calling Booking support by phone and they didn't
         | pick up? I ask because I personally had to call their support
         | before a couple of times and they responded almost immediately.
         | You do need to provide booking ID for that to happen though.
         | 
         | Contrast to Airbnb, which was so bad I deleted my account in.
         | 
         | Contrast to Agoda, which after charging my debit card required
         | government ID scans within 2 hours-- or immediate cancellation
         | & no refund. Stay next morning in foreign country, what if I
         | was on the damn plane already? Never had an account with them
         | and probably never will.
        
         | edgyquant wrote:
         | This happened to me via Expedia, more than once. Both times I
         | had driven hundreds of miles and was forced to pay for a second
         | hotel due to this issue.
        
           | ratg13 wrote:
           | I've never had this happen because I always call the hotel
           | directly and ask them.
           | 
           | Trusting a 3rd party booking system to have accurate up-to-
           | date information is a fool's errand.
        
         | zdw wrote:
         | Funny, I always look for hotels that _do not_ allow dogs, as
         | most of the time the rooms tend to smell like a wet dog, or
         | sometimes feces.
         | 
         | I appreciate people who want to travel with their animals, but
         | saying "we allow dogs" then not having rooms designed to
         | ameliorate the issues with such a policy - hard surface floors
         | everywhere and thorough cleanings - is unfortunately very
         | common.
        
         | baz00 wrote:
         | This is what Mr Chargeback is for. Had a similar experience
         | with them and my CC refunded it. I had flights booked with them
         | as well so they refunded those too! Basically got 3 nights in
         | Reykjavik for PS290
        
           | lrem wrote:
           | Chargeback in Europe can, at least with some major banks,
           | require first a fraud report with police.
        
             | baz00 wrote:
             | UK at least you just fill in a form and it happens.
             | Basically "I paid for something, I didn't get it, I
             | contacted the vendor and they did not deal with it, I want
             | my money back"
        
         | ugh123 wrote:
         | You can probably get refunded by your credit card company
        
         | ferminaut wrote:
         | I have to ask, why use 3rd party booking sites at all? From
         | what I can tell, the prices are usually the same as the
         | hotel... needlessly adding middlemen into the booking process.
        
           | thaumaturgy wrote:
           | If you're traveling to an unfamiliar area, and especially if
           | it's last-minute, and you aren't wedded to one particular
           | hotel brand (or they have no availability), then finding a
           | decent room is currently a big pain in the butt and there's
           | no good centralized way to do it.
           | 
           | booking.com frequently appears at the top of searches for
           | "hotels near..." and other third-party travel sites, like
           | tripadvisor, link to it.
           | 
           | They've done a good job of getting their site in front of
           | eyeballs. Like others, I've tried them, and like others,
           | found them to be awful and now actively avoid them.
        
           | distances wrote:
           | I have never ever found a hotel to have the same or cheaper
           | prices when booking directly on the hotel website. I travel
           | in Europe.
           | 
           | For my last booking the difference was almost 20% (340EUR at
           | Hotels.com, 420EUR direct booking). I don't know if they
           | enforce some most favourable pricing rules or what, but one
           | of the booking sites is _always_ the cheaper option.
           | 
           | I would prefer to book directly so that the accommodation
           | gets all the money, but I'm obviously not going to pay that
           | much more just out of generosity.
        
           | TuringNYC wrote:
           | > I have to ask, why use 3rd party booking sites at all? From
           | what I can tell, the prices are usually the same as the
           | hotel... needlessly adding middlemen into the booking
           | process.
           | 
           | It can be worse. I once called the hotel and didnt realize I
           | was calling Hotels.com (which used a tricky website to make
           | it seem like I was calling the hotel.)
           | 
           | Worse, the [Hotels.com] agent pretended to be a the hotel
           | reservation desk. I gave him several discount codes (my
           | consulting company code, my AAA code) and each time he said
           | it wasnt reducing the price. That got me suspicious...because
           | my consulting company Accenture always had discounts.
           | 
           | So I asked the person outright, "do you work for the hotel,
           | which company do you work for, etc" and learned he was a
           | Hotels.com employee.
           | 
           | Based on this, i'd note that Hotels.com might not be the same
           | price but might actually even be _more expensive_ that
           | booking direct with the hotel.
        
           | dybber wrote:
           | I want a middleman to hold my money, if the host fucks up, he
           | will not get the money. That's why you use escrows, but
           | Booking.com doesn't act like an escrow, so don't use it.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Credit cards perform that function.
        
               | gog wrote:
               | Not in the whole world, my guess is that it's usually
               | credit card companies in USA that protect you.
        
           | tiew9Vii wrote:
           | For me booking.com has always been cheaper than booking
           | directly with hotels.
           | 
           | I do a lot of motorcycle travelling without a plan. I often
           | do not know where I'll be at the end of the day, just a
           | general direction.
           | 
           | Late afternoon when I have a better idea where I'll end up
           | before it goes dark I'll look at booking.com, find some
           | hotels/motels that match my criteria and head to them without
           | booking.
           | 
           | Countless times I've turned up and said "I found you on
           | booking.com and it says you have vacancies, I want a room"
           | only to be given a price higher than booking.com. Some
           | reluctantly negotiate down to match it, some look confused
           | how booking com can offer the price they are while I book
           | through booking.com at the hotel desk as the hotel won't
           | match the price booking.com are charging.
        
             | Zanni wrote:
             | If you just walk in off the street, hotels will quote you
             | the "rack rate," which is going to be higher than anything
             | you can find online, even on the hotel's own website.
        
           | faster wrote:
           | One data point, but it was only 2 days ago. I needed a place
           | to quarantine while I was the only one in my family who
           | caught covid on a trip, so I went to the hotel a few blocks
           | away and asked about their rates. They told me that the
           | lowest they could go was $183. I asked why Google showed 6
           | third-party sites advertising their rooms at $135 and they
           | said those sites reserve rooms in bulk and they aren't
           | normally refundable. So I booked the room with credit card
           | rewards points for about $120/night and everyone was happy.
           | 
           | I always thought that booking direct got the best rates also,
           | but that seems to be incorrect, at least in this case.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Prices are very often not even remotely the same.
           | 
           | I've regularly scored things like 70% off regular price when
           | booking the day before.
           | 
           | They continue to advertise their regular full price on their
           | official site and other mainstream sites that business
           | travelers use.
           | 
           | But they advertise at a massive discount on certain discount
           | sites that attract budget travelers.
           | 
           | They want to fill the rooms, often in response to last-minute
           | cancellations, and they hope they get lucky with somebody at
           | full price first, but they advertise budget prices on budget
           | sites because a deeply discounted rate is better than no
           | money at all.
        
             | lrem wrote:
             | Can you list some of these discount sites?
        
               | travoc wrote:
               | Hotwire and Priceline.
        
             | scarface_74 wrote:
             | Hilton at least has a price match guarantee. I don't know
             | about the others.
        
           | isilofi wrote:
           | Availability: Often, booking sites like booking.com have
           | reserved bunches of rooms at hotels that you can only book
           | through their site. So the hotel's own website might show "no
           | rooms available", while on booking.com you can still book.
           | Many hotels even have given up on their own website and only
           | offer rooms through booking.com.
           | 
           | Price: The hotel website often is no cheaper than booking.com
           | (I guess thanks to very one-sided contracts), and sometimes
           | only gives you a better price if you join a "club" and give
           | them permission to spam you, sell your data, etc.
           | 
           | Payments: booking.com is shady, but less shady and far less
           | broken than a random hotel website where some credit cards
           | might not be working, your CC data turns up in some data dump
           | "found" somewhere, or payment is held by the CC company
           | because you are the first person in months to directly pay to
           | that hotel's website.
           | 
           | Language: booking.com offers an interface and descriptions at
           | least in English. Many hotel websites are only in the local
           | language plus maybe some awkward machine translation that
           | leaves lots of important points to guesswork, especially in
           | the payment flow.
           | 
           | Convenience: booking.com at least offers some kind of
           | searchable database of hotels so I can easily compare them.
           | The hotels themselves make this rather impossible.
           | 
           | I do make a point to try to book via a hotels website after
           | having found it on booking.com. However, in more than half of
           | the cases, for the aforementioned reasons, I end up going
           | through booking.com after all. So while lazy users might be a
           | large part of the reason for the existence of booking
           | middlemen, the hotels do have to bear their fair share of
           | blame here.
        
             | satvikpendem wrote:
             | I agree, this is why I book through Booking as well, it's
             | usually cheaper than calling rhe hotel directly. Plus, I
             | get discounts in the Booking app with repeat bookings, just
             | like a hotel chain club.
        
             | alwa wrote:
             | As far as payments go, I have been surprised, when booking
             | through booking.com (especially in foreign countries) to
             | see my full credit card details printed in plain text on
             | the Booking.com reservation email that the proprietor
             | printed out and referred to when I checked in. This even
             | when I indicate in the reservation that I intend to pay in
             | cash or with contactless on-site.
             | 
             | While it makes sense to take a card to guarantee against a
             | no-show, it's always felt a little slimy to me that they
             | make it feel like they, rather than a random property
             | someplace far-flung, are the ones who would collect the fee
             | if I didn't make good on the reservation--and only if I
             | actually didn't show up.
             | 
             | It looks like they still pre-emptively give out your full
             | credit card details directly to every property in
             | plaintext, but that they might now make a notional effort
             | to record when the property accesses the CVC?
             | 
             | https://partner.booking.com/en-us/help/policies-
             | payments/gue...
        
               | orra wrote:
               | That sounds shockingly non-PCI compliant.
        
               | ztetranz wrote:
               | At least it says:
               | 
               | "Never take a screenshot of your guest's credit card
               | details, and never write them down."
               | 
               | That's a bit like instructions for an eBike.
               | 
               | "This bike is limited to 20 MPH. Do not go to the third
               | option on the settings menu and remove this limitation
               | with a long press of the plus button".
        
           | maverick2007 wrote:
           | I just got back from a trip to Japan where I stayed at a lot
           | of non-western brand hotels. But when I went to their sites
           | directly, they were obviously all in Japanese which I don't
           | speak. I could've relied on Google translate to book directly
           | but I'd rather book through a 3rd party site in native
           | English. Which I did.
        
             | kernelbugs wrote:
             | What service did you use, and anythings to stay away from /
             | definitely try?
        
           | Zetobal wrote:
           | Like with everything... convenience.
        
           | LiquidSky wrote:
           | Inertia. You used to be able to get some good deals on those
           | sites, now they're coasting on that reputation.
        
           | 8jef wrote:
           | The middlemen argument isn't valid anymore. Hotels have for
           | the most part forfeited their right to sell directly. Which
           | means whatever they do, they still pay full commission to
           | whomever they are under contract with, unless said booking
           | concerns 10 rooms or more.
        
             | scarface_74 wrote:
             | What hotels don't allow you to book directly?
        
           | danpalmer wrote:
           | Because there are hundreds of hotels with a hundred different
           | websites or no website at all in any given city, and hotel
           | rooms are largely fungible. I want to sleep somewhere and I
           | have a budget. Searching hotel by hotel is infeasible even if
           | you can find them, and you often can't.
           | 
           | A "middleman", or search engine, or discovery system, or
           | price comparison site, is worth a lot to me and to most
           | travellers.
           | 
           | Edit: it's worth a lot when you... don't speak the language
           | in the country the hotel is in... when you want the consumer
           | protections of the country you or the middleman is based
           | in... these sorts of concerns are much more of an issue in
           | some parts of the world, and this might be reflected in the
           | fact that Booking.com grew up in Europe.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | You can still search and then book directly. Enough of that
             | would perhaps make booking fix their issues.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I search and then call/email the hotel directly to see if
               | they want to give me a lower price for buying directly so
               | they avoid 15%+ commissions to the travel agent.
        
               | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
               | How successful are you? I assume that the person picking
               | up the phone does not care about the extra booking, nor
               | do they have the authority to offer spot deals.
               | 
               | Maybe I am wrong and this is a common tactic?
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I estimate 50% success. I find it more successful when
               | emailing the sales person, or the manager directly.
        
               | r_hoods_ghost wrote:
               | Not the op, but it's the opposite, at least in the UK. I
               | worked in hospitality as a yoof, was manager of a small
               | hotel and a receptionist in big (independent) 5 stars. I
               | absolutely did care about extra bookings because I got a
               | big commission on walk-ins and a smaller commission on
               | phone bookings. I also had leeway to discount rooms on a
               | sliding scale down to "barely covers the cleaning costs"
               | levels on the night. As a booker if I have the time I
               | still call places up and can usually get a decent
               | discount if they have availability, especially off season
               | or last minute.
        
               | bruceb wrote:
               | I have tried this but most of the time its the same
               | price, sometimes it is more. Even standing in person at
               | hotel the person at the desk cant even match the online
               | price. Not empowered to.
        
               | orra wrote:
               | > Even standing in person at hotel the person at the desk
               | cant even match the online price. Not empowered to.
               | 
               | True, but not uncommon! Captive market.
        
               | jksflkjl3jk3 wrote:
               | In many countries, the majority of hotels do not have a
               | way to book directly. The just use Booking/Agoda.
        
             | b8 wrote:
             | I've been using Booking.com, and then booking via the
             | Hotel's site after I find the one I want to stay at. I
             | suppose you could Google to find their number if they don't
             | a website.
        
             | Moru wrote:
             | Yes, but you don't have to book with the search engine. I
             | search with hotels.com and then book by calling the hotel.
             | Every other time I used hotels.com or booking.com the
             | booking didn't exist when I arrived at the hotel...
        
               | starik36 wrote:
               | Do you find you get a better deal by calling the hotel
               | directly?
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | I get worse deals calling the hotel, usually, as Booking
               | gives better discounts and they buy room inventory at
               | bulk prices to resell.
        
               | danpalmer wrote:
               | This varies, some inventory is bought "wholesale", other
               | inventory is on-demand reselling. Booking has a range of
               | terms and systems for different regions, types, volumes,
               | etc.
        
               | Moru wrote:
               | The hotels are required to have the same price on direct
               | contact as they post on hotels.com so no. But I can be
               | certain that there is actually a room waiting for me when
               | I arrive. I have been standing there enough times with a
               | booking confirmation in hand but the hotel not finding
               | any booking and out of rooms. So far they managed to get
               | me somewhere to sleep even though they have had to pay to
               | house me at another hotel a couple of times.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | They have to have the same price for "non members". You
               | can sign up for free to the hotels loyalty program and
               | book a lower price.
               | 
               | You also get points if it is a chain hotel that can be
               | used for future stays. The points can be worth from 7% to
               | 20% of the cost based on what combination of base points,
               | credit cards, and status you have.
        
               | dandy23 wrote:
               | If I'm not remembering wrong, since a while back, in EU
               | the hotels are free to set their prices lower even if
               | they are on Booking.com.
        
               | Moru wrote:
               | I'm very happy to hear that
        
               | afandian wrote:
               | I guess that's why grubhub faked restaurants' websites.
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20321260
        
               | FireBeyond wrote:
               | And heavily implied they were the restaurant with fake
               | phone numbers too.
               | 
               | You'd call a number, "I can take your order for XYZ
               | whenever you're ready!"
               | 
               | "Is this XYZ restaurant?"
               | 
               | No yes or no answer, just "What's your order for XYZ
               | restaurant?"
        
               | jll29 wrote:
               | Booking get 15% of the transaction so it makes sense to
               | ask for 10% off when calling the hotel directly (which
               | increases the profit of the hotel by and saves you some).
        
               | Moru wrote:
               | Eccept that is breach of contract with the booking
               | service and can cost them the contract[1]. Since everyone
               | is using booking.com or hotels.com, they will quickly
               | shut down due to no customers. Hostage situation.
               | 
               | [1] At least last time I looked into it. Haven't had a
               | change to travel since a few years.
        
               | garciasn wrote:
               | I just tell them that I saw a better deal on _gestures
               | broadly_ the Internet and they give me some discounted
               | rate.
               | 
               | This happens all the time with every single type of
               | service provider, why would some shitty service like
               | Booking.com get to mandate no one can offer any other
               | discounts?
               | 
               | What, just because there's some sort of aggregator
               | service out there that you've partnered with you are not
               | allowed to offer coupons, discounts, or your own booking
               | services yourself? I would find that VERY difficult to
               | believe.
               | 
               | Plus, based on what we're hearing everywhere, potentially
               | losing your contract w/Booking.com seems like a blessing.
        
               | danpalmer wrote:
               | I would generally rather book with a bigger company,
               | especially when travelling abroad where I may not be
               | knowledgeable of local language, customs, or consumer
               | protections. If I buy from Booking UK I get UK consumer
               | protections, even if that hotel does not provide those.
               | In some parts that's worth a fair bit. Calling the hotel
               | only works if you speak the language. I've also only ever
               | seen identical pricing when I've checked hotel websites.
               | 
               | Perhaps perspectives are based on whether you're booking
               | domestically or not. Domestically you get the same
               | protections, same language, not much benefit. In the US
               | most of the market is domestic.
        
               | IKantRead wrote:
               | > Perhaps perspectives are based on whether you're
               | booking domestically or not.
               | 
               | I've had the best success when traveling abroad booking
               | directly. Anyone in the hospitality industry is going to
               | have someone on staff with enough English to assist you,
               | and most of the nicest places are smaller hotels that
               | often don't work well with big booking companies.
               | 
               | > If I buy from Booking UK I get UK consumer protections
               | 
               | I worked in a travel startup (not Booking), there's _a
               | lot_ of fine print to all those  "protections" that will
               | leave you high and dry in most cases.
               | 
               | Only use 3rd party apps for search, never book directly
               | through them _especially_ , in my experience, for
               | International travel.
        
               | danpalmer wrote:
               | I'll take letter-of-the-law fine print consumer
               | protections over "eh, sorry" any day.
               | 
               | You're right that we're lucky as English speakers,
               | there's often someone to help, but that's not true of
               | most other languages. Small places can provide some of
               | the best experiences I agree, but finding them and
               | getting in contact can be difficult.
        
               | olddustytrail wrote:
               | I guess I've been using booking.com for a decade or so
               | and this has literally never happened to me.
        
             | scarface_74 wrote:
             | I stay loyal to two hotel brands - Hilton and Hyatt for the
             | most part.
             | 
             | The very reason I don't use third party portals is because
             | it's always a hassle when you need to make any changes.
             | 
             | Last year I booked a week at the Hilton San Francisco
             | Financial District for a hybrid work/personal trip.
             | 
             | We arrived late that night and we were not impressed. We
             | went downstairs the next morning, shortened our stay to
             | that one night. Paid it and moved over to another hotel -
             | the Hilton Parc 55. This would have been much more of a
             | headache if not impossible going through a third party
             | portal.
             | 
             | I've also increased my stay by a day before arriving and
             | the published price had changed. I called the hotel and
             | asked them to extend my stay by one day at the original
             | price - no problem.
             | 
             | I was a customer of the hotel, not the third party portal.
             | 
             | In my specific case, I am Diamond with Hilton and Globalist
             | with Hyatt. I would get no status benefits or points for
             | going through the portal.
             | 
             | That incident in S.F. I mentioned? When I changed hotels I
             | got an upgrade for free to the "fitness room" with a gym
             | inside the room.
        
             | flashback2199 wrote:
             | Google Maps shows hotels and prices now. That's what I've
             | been using lately. I book on the actual hotel website.
             | Always choosing the cancellable booking option in case
             | plans change. Often it's the only option, but not always.
        
             | at_a_remove wrote:
             | The problem is that hotel rooms only _appear_ fungible: a
             | space that is a rectangular solid, with a bed. Sounds easy.
             | 
             | However, in reality, people want more than a place to lay
             | immobile for roughly eight hours. These are not
             | commodities. Check-in time. Check-out time. Type of bed.
             | Bathroom? Bathroom with tub? Bathroom with waterjet tub?
             | Pets? Dogs? View. Floor. Proximity to whatever. Bedbugs.
             | Television, microwave, refrigerator, coffee pot, hair
             | dryer. Free wifi? Breakfast? "Continental" breakfast?
             | 
             | If "hotel room" were some kind of spec, it might take years
             | to hammer it out. And then hotels may or may not be honest
             | about their rooms, or even understand the spec. Then
             | there's the periodic keeping the listings up to date. "We
             | had to take the TV out last week, it was on the fritz."
             | "This room was upgraded." When was the last bedbug check?
             | Finally, who is the system of record for any given room?
             | And then the discount policies, wowza.
             | 
             | Looks fungible, really isn't. These aren't pork bellies.
        
               | prepend wrote:
               | I really don't care about any of the things you mention.
               | I literally only want a room with a bed and a bathroom.
               | And maybe I'll sort my three stars and up or something.
               | 
               | There's a lot of variability, but it's also pretty
               | impossible to know at a non-commodity level unless I've
               | stayed there before or do a ton of research.
               | 
               | I'm not going to trust anything online for the latest
               | bedbug check. Id like to know, but let me know how they
               | factors into your decision making process.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | That's the great thing about booking directly especially
               | with a chain hotel. If you don't like it, you can cancel
               | the rest of your reservation and only pay for the time
               | you are there. With travel portals it's much harder.
               | 
               | Even if you're not happy with the response from the hotel
               | - and I've never had a problem with a chain hotel making
               | things right, I can call corporate customer service.
        
               | danpalmer wrote:
               | These are all the reasons I said "largely" fungible.
               | 
               | You're right there's certainly no formal spec here and
               | everyone is going to have the things they care about that
               | others may not, but for any given person there are going
               | to be _many_ places that satisfy their needs, basically
               | interchangeably.
        
           | codr7 wrote:
           | Convenience mostly, and I've sometimes gotten better prices
           | that way.
           | 
           | They make it easy to see available options in a city and
           | compare prices. And making the reservation through them is
           | often easier than getting in contact with the hotel.
           | 
           | Assuming it works, that is.
           | 
           | Never again.
        
         | notreallyauser wrote:
         | booking.com allows guest bookings without verifying email
         | address by design, so I had a booking added to my account that
         | was nothing to do with me.
         | 
         | Couldn't cancel automatically. Support only seemed to be able
         | to do the same I could. I assume the booking was some kind of
         | fraud or credit card test -- anyway, the result is my account
         | is suspended and support won't respond to me.
        
         | NavinF wrote:
         | I presume you never filed a chargeback? If you didn't bother to
         | get your money back, they have no incentive to fix problems
         | like this
        
         | FartyMcFarter wrote:
         | If you booked with a credit card, you might be able to claim
         | the money back via the credit card provider.
         | 
         | It also sounds like the hotel screwed up if they listed
         | themselves as pet-friendly but actually aren't.
        
           | moeadham wrote:
           | You can do a chargeback, but Booking.com bans you after -
           | even if it is completely their fault
        
             | poizan42 wrote:
             | Isn't retaliation for chargebacks a violation of most
             | merchant contracts with the credit card companies?
             | 
             | The one time I have had to request a chargeback I was
             | basically told to contact the financial institution[1] in
             | case the merchant tried anything funny.
             | 
             | [1] In this case Nets A/S who acted as a middle man between
             | my bank and VISA. But I assume my bank would have said the
             | same thing if they had the agreement directly with the CC
             | company.
        
               | d3w4s9 wrote:
               | Suppose it is true, I would like to know what you would
               | do after your account is banned. You are not a part of
               | that contract so you cannot sue the merchant. And credit
               | card company likely won't bother with a lawsuit because
               | there is one person affected by this.
        
         | belter wrote:
         | If that helps you...Hotels hate Booking.com as much. Just ask
         | them.
        
         | arp242 wrote:
         | So who is responsible for the listing on booking.com? I always
         | figured it was the hotel who managed the listing on the site,
         | similar to e.g. AirBnB, but if I understand you correctly it's
         | completely separate and booking.com is responsible?
         | 
         | Or: obviously booking.com should have gotten back to you, but
         | I'm also not entirely sure the hotel _also_ didn 't just fob
         | you off with a bullshit story for their own mistake.
        
           | MakeThemMoney wrote:
           | The hotels are responsible
        
         | foooorsyth wrote:
         | For reliable travel with a dog, I highly recommend BringFido.
         | I've done two cross-country trips with my dog and BringFido
         | delivered both ways. Half the reviews in their app are just
         | from dog owners talking about the hotel experience from that
         | perspective.
        
       | mempko wrote:
       | Reminds me of the quote from that Simpsons episode with Bill
       | Gates "buying out" Homer's internet business.
       | 
       | Bill Gates says: "I didn't get rich by writing checks".
        
       | dcdc123 wrote:
       | This sounds like a trigger for hotels to treat booking.com
       | customers poorly. I imagine people would be better off booking
       | somewhere else. I would suggest directly with hotels but that
       | pretty much always costs more money than booking through a third
       | party so maybe Expedia/Hotels.com or something.
        
       | unsupp0rted wrote:
       | I've 2 times out of 2 successfully done credit card chargebacks
       | against Booking.com for their customer support's tomfoolery when
       | their "third party hotels for whose actions we are not
       | responsible" messed with me.
       | 
       | You processed my credit card, so now you're gonna deal with my
       | refund too.
        
         | schultzie wrote:
         | Ditto.
         | 
         | I stayed at a hotel that had bed bugs, the hotel was
         | uninterested in refunding us or giving us a new room (I had
         | only been in the room shortly before discovering them). I went
         | back to Booking.com and they said I had to be refunded via the
         | hotel and they would only act as arbiters. After showing proof
         | the hotel wouldn't refund me, they continued to not refund.
         | 
         | To really add insult to injury I wrote a review of the hotel
         | explaining the situation and it was removed!
        
           | whstl wrote:
           | Amazing, I had the exact same thing happen to me.
           | 
           | They instantly flagged and deleted my review claiming I only
           | stayed one night (I did - in a sleeping bag no less) instead
           | of four. This claim from them actually helped in the
           | chargeback.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | unsupp0rted wrote:
           | I made the mistake of telling the apart-hotel owner in Turkey
           | I work in IT, so he would knock on my door at 2am and
           | Whatsapp me over and over to help him solve router problems.
           | 
           | "It's urgent"
           | 
           | "Can I talk to you?"
           | 
           | "Can you please come downstairs? Just 2 minutes." (it's 2am)
           | 
           | "There is a big problem" (with me not being willing to pay a
           | network tech to deal with my IT problems instead of badgering
           | my guests)
           | 
           | No thanks. I had booked a month and left after a week.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | op00to wrote:
         | Why would booking.com keep you as a customer if you're going to
         | chargeback? Many retailers seem to treat a chargeback as some
         | sort of horrible unforgivable curse.
        
           | unsupp0rted wrote:
           | I assume their processes are so broken that they have no idea
           | who is and isn't doing chargebacks, and also they couldn't
           | care less. The Casino keeps winning on average anyway.
        
       | MilnerRoute wrote:
       | From this article:
       | 
       |  _A Booking.com market manager in south-east Asia admitted at a
       | recent industry event that payment delays were caused by the
       | installation of a new payment system. Staff salaries were also
       | affected, she said, explaining it as a risk they had to take._
       | 
       | From an earlier article:
       | 
       |  _In the company's August results, CFO David Goulden said there
       | were "lower than expected" IT expenses in the second quarter of
       | this year, in part due to phasing IT spend into the third
       | quarter, but did not outline what this IT expense included._
       | 
       | https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/03/bookingcom-...
       | 
       | Is this all just a fancy way of saying, "They 'restructured' IT
       | and payment problems resulted?"
        
       | kbenson wrote:
       | I've taken to calling hotels directly and dealing with them, or
       | their chain's booking, as they offer the same or better rates
       | usually, are more accountable, are more willing to refund or
       | cancel without problems, and are much more interested in keeping
       | you happy and wanting to come back.
        
         | wordpad25 wrote:
         | Hotels always offer worse rates offline than online
        
           | kbenson wrote:
           | Not my experience, especially when you actually break down
           | the cancellation policies (which booking aggregators will
           | sometimes charge extra for) and whether they require payment
           | up front or at the time of arrival.
           | 
           | When I last did this, for a vacation, the cost at an
           | aggregator was less if there was no cancellation allowed, and
           | more if the option to cancel was added (but to a couple days
           | before I believe), and needed to be paid at time of booking.
           | When I called, I got a rate slightly less than the
           | online+cancellation, I was able to cancel up to 24 hours in
           | advance, and I only needed to pay on arrival, meaning I
           | didn't tie up a few thousand for a few months.
           | 
           | There's also always the option to state the rate you found
           | online and see if they are willing to match it. It's not like
           | there usually some magic involved, if they're willing to
           | offer it to an aggregator, why wouldn't they at least
           | consider offering it to you direct?
        
             | lepus wrote:
             | > It's not like there usually some magic involved, if
             | they're willing to offer it to an aggregator, why wouldn't
             | they at least consider offering it to you direct?
             | 
             | The magic is actually being given the direct authorization
             | to give you a matching rate or if not then having to get
             | management to authorize that rate for you. That depends
             | entirely on the hotel. Some employees might also recognize
             | a deal seeker as someone who's also more likely to be picky
             | and complain more and so would rather deny your price
             | negotiations and avoid working with you if they have the
             | choice depending on how filled they already are.
        
         | dcdc123 wrote:
         | I am a full time digital nomad and stay in a ton of hotels. I
         | have once gotten the same rate directly, usually it is 20-30%
         | higher. Hotels basically force you to third parties.
        
         | avgDev wrote:
         | Not always the case.
         | 
         | In Dominican Republic I was told to just use an online booking
         | site as it was much cheaper than doing it in person. Their own
         | site was also more expensive than expedia.
        
           | throwaway290 wrote:
           | Similar in Israel and Thailand, they upfront say it'd be more
           | expensive to book at reception. I wonder if it's only
           | different in US.
        
       | justinclift wrote:
       | Bearing in mind that booking.com famously offshored most of their
       | customer support staff last year:
       | 
       | https://skift.com/2022/02/11/booking-com-to-eliminate-2700-c...
       | 
       | Seems like that's going as well as everyone except their
       | executive team predicted. ;)
        
       | skilled wrote:
       | Hmm, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever,
       | 
       | > A Booking.com market manager in south-east Asia admitted at a
       | recent industry event that payment delays were caused by the
       | installation of a new payment system. Staff salaries were also
       | affected, she said, explaining it as a risk they had to take.
       | 
       | What do you mean a new payment system? How do you not create a
       | fallback for this situation when you're dealing with hundreds of
       | millions of dollars in transactions?
       | 
       | I mean I am _willing_ to give Booking.com the benefit of the
       | doubt here in case that is actually the root cause, but it doesn
       | 't compute for me. You don't just throw thousands of people (who
       | drive business for you in the first place) under the bus by not
       | properly preparing for a software rollout.
       | 
       | You still have the old system or whatever it is that you were
       | using, how hard would it have been to detect an issue if they did
       | a A/B or a gradual rollout at first.
       | 
       | As a Booking.com user myself - I am _pissed_ that this is a
       | thing.
        
       | 8jef wrote:
       | I wish someone from the accommodation industry would tell us all
       | how the central booking system and most hotel chains are abusing
       | everyone, from inn and hotel owners to end customers. Their
       | contracts are pure gold, in the sense that they cloak all
       | possibility of independence under a thick cover nothing can
       | pierce through. Tourism, they are killing it, literally.
        
         | gvedem wrote:
         | What do you mean by "central booking system"? As far as I know
         | (working on a rental car contract for a couple years), there
         | are just various travel industry standards for bookings and
         | whatnot.
        
           | CharlieDigital wrote:
           | It's called the GDS:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_distribution_system
           | 
           | It started with airlines, but eventually included everything
           | from hotels to rental cars.
           | 
           | The space is more or less dominated by a few big players.
           | Sabre. Amadeus. Travelport.
           | 
           | GDS is the backbone of all of these booking platforms as far
           | as I'm aware.
        
           | ramses0 wrote:
           | GDS. A Global Distribution System is a worldwide reservation
           | system that acts as a conduit between travel bookers and
           | suppliers, such as hotels, other accommodation providers and
           | other travel related services.
        
           | 8jef wrote:
           | I mean there is only one pipeline, to which are contributing
           | many actors, like big agencies (booking, expedia), car
           | rental, airlines, etc. Together, they act as one.
        
         | jwhitlark wrote:
         | There are multiple GDSs, and AFAIK neither Expedia nor
         | Booking.com use them. The space is way more confused and
         | competitive then your comment implies. The best writeup I've
         | seen on the space is https://www.altexsoft.com/blog/hotel-api/,
         | if you really want to dive into the details.
         | 
         | Edit: been typing markdown all day, oops.
        
       | hoppla wrote:
       | <<A Booking.com market manager in south-east Asia admitted at a
       | recent industry event that payment delays were caused by the
       | installation of a new payment system. Staff salaries were also
       | affected, she said, explaining it as a risk they had to take.>>
       | 
       | It seems like there is a misunderstanding of who is on the taking
       | and receiving end of risks
        
         | ratg13 wrote:
         | Sad to see the top comments in the thread not even bothering to
         | discuss the technical reasons and legal implications behind
         | this .. and instead everyone wants to just discuss unrelated
         | anecdotes about their personal travels.
         | 
         | The story here is about how booking.com is screwing over hotels
         | and hostels, not guests. Someone should create a different
         | thread for that, because apparently people have a very strong
         | need to tell their tangentially related stories.
        
         | gnu8 wrote:
         | Real companies have competent adults build and test this type
         | of thing so they don't stiff their vendors or miss payroll.
         | It's not an area where you should let techbros move fast and
         | break things.
        
           | Aaargh20318 wrote:
           | It's booking.com, they are notorious for not being competent
           | adults. Just check out this article about their working
           | conditions [1] (you might want to google translate it you
           | happen to not speak Dutch).
           | 
           | 1 - https://www.computable.nl/artikel/nieuws/development/6777
           | 910... (
        
             | diggan wrote:
             | > the developers complain about Perl programming language,
             | which forms the basis of the online platform and to which,
             | according to them, is held far too rigidly. Criticism of
             | Perl may even result in dismissal, according to an
             | anonymous source.
             | 
             | If this machine translation is correct and the statement
             | true, then this is borderline hilarious. I know that some
             | companies keep their languages dearly, but that's taking it
             | to the next level.
        
               | laurent_du wrote:
               | After duckduckgo, this is the second time in a few days
               | where I hear about some relatively big company using Perl
               | for their backend.
        
               | colejohnson66 wrote:
               | Any hosting provider running cPanel is running on Perl
        
       | zeagle wrote:
       | There is other good discussion here about booking direct vs
       | resellers so I won't rehash it, but I just wish savings or other
       | benefit were passed on by booking direct more often, e.g. room
       | upgrade priority or breakfast. I've had that experience with
       | airlines before having status.
        
       | DrNosferatu wrote:
       | Call the booking.com property and negotiate a better price
       | directly with the host. They offer virtually no protection anyway
       | if a booking goes bad.
       | 
       | Guests and hosts both win if you cut the booking.com middleman.
        
       | DrNosferatu wrote:
       | It's a de facto monopoly - break them up!
       | 
       | They don't care about screwing up because they dominate the
       | market so much. They're enjoying the benefits of the existence of
       | little alternative to them.
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | I can't think of many industries with more competition than 3rd
         | party travel sites.
        
         | DrNosferatu wrote:
         | Proof: the reality is that just right now we're talking about
         | (yet another) report on how they can behave badly and get away
         | with it.
         | 
         | - Isn't that market distortion?
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | No, not a monopoly. AirBnB is clearly a competitor in this
         | space despite the various differences in targeted properties,
         | and Google Maps also fills in this space.
         | 
         | You could call them rent-seeking middlemen, but not a monopoly.
        
       | say_it_as_it_is wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Or perhaps just some group of hotel owners that's tired of not
         | being paid?
        
         | MakeThemMoney wrote:
         | A multi-billion dollar corporation is withholding payments from
         | smaller businesses. Is that not enough reason to publish such
         | an article?
        
         | ClumsyPilot wrote:
         | Are you saying that Media does not publish articles unless a
         | multibillion dollar corporation or its multibillion dollar
         | competitor needs one? That sounds newsworthy itself!
        
           | possiblelion wrote:
           | The prevalence of PR work means that such direct hit pieces
           | are usually at least nudged by a competitors actions, yes.
        
         | meepmorp wrote:
         | Cui bono is a fine question to ask, but why let booking.com off
         | the hook for stiffing smaller players?
        
         | lawlessone wrote:
         | Does everything have to be second guessed?
         | 
         | A big rich company not paying their due is stuff most
         | journalists would jump on.
        
         | terminous wrote:
         | The "competitors" who would benefit the most from this article
         | are the individual independent hotels who have to eat the cost
         | of stays booked through booking.com and aren't part of a big
         | chain network that has a big enough legal team to be taken
         | seriously.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | totallywrong wrote:
       | I used it a whole lot when I was doing the nomad thing but avoid
       | it now if I can help it at all. I can recommend the trip.com app
       | if you want actual support when you have any issues. With booking
       | you're on your own, it's terrible. Unfortunately they usually
       | have the most options though.
        
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