[HN Gopher] Among the Cabin Fanatics of Mississippi's Giant Hous...
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Among the Cabin Fanatics of Mississippi's Giant Houseparty
Author : samclemens
Score : 99 points
Date : 2023-10-03 20:11 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
| pard68 wrote:
| [flagged]
| dang wrote:
| " _Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents._ "
|
| " _Please don 't pick the most provocative thing in an article
| or post to complain about in the thread. Find something
| interesting to respond to instead._"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| Bukhmanizer wrote:
| [flagged]
| addicted wrote:
| [flagged]
| [deleted]
| MaxHoppersGhost wrote:
| [flagged]
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| [flagged]
| nacl_er wrote:
| [flagged]
| MaxHoppersGhost wrote:
| [flagged]
| chrisco255 wrote:
| [flagged]
| chrisco255 wrote:
| [flagged]
| ceejayoz wrote:
| [flagged]
| chrisco255 wrote:
| You're linking to a partisan hit piece from a biased news
| source desperately trying to create a racial narrative out
| of standard faire politics, because that's what sells
| clicks to people that get worked up about such things even
| in the absence of real substance.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| I'm linking to news coverage of the Supreme Court
| (currently with substantial conservative lean) _twice_
| knocking down gerrymandered maps intended to reduce the
| likelihood of black congressional representation.
|
| Pick another source (or read the decision itself; https:/
| /www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-1086_1co6.pdf) if
| you like, but none of the facts here are in meaningful
| dispute.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| Gerrymandered districts are a joke and its hard to
| believe anyone actually supports the concept of
| arbitrarily scribbling awkward shapes on the map that
| have nothing to do with town, city, community or county
| boundaries, but here we are. They struck it down for
| legal reasons, not for racial reasons. These are standard
| back and forth trench warfare politics over territory,
| and of course one side used yellow journalism to attack
| the other, as the case has always been. I honestly hate
| that the whole gerrymandering system even exists. It's a
| terrible waste and it further divorces our
| representatives from actually fighting for specific
| communities at the national level. It also entrenches
| incumbents and its the biggest reason why Congress has
| turned into a giant nursing home for sociopaths well past
| their prime, but I digress.
|
| CNN has been a joke and has beat that drum for a long
| time:
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/entertainment/reactions-
| jussi...
| ceejayoz wrote:
| "They struck it down for legal reasons, not for racial
| reasons."
|
| That's a lie. From the linked opinion:
|
| > Finally, the District Court concluded that plaintiffs
| had carried their burden at the totality of circumstances
| stage given the racial polarization of elections in
| Alabama, where "Black Alabamians enjoy virtually zero
| success in statewide elections" and where "Alabama's
| extensive history of repugnant racial and vot- ing-
| related discrimination is undeniable and well
| documented." The Court sees no reason to disturb the
| District Court's careful factual findings, which are
| subject to clear error review and have gone unchal-
| lenged by Alabama in any event.
|
| The "legal reason" _is_ the "racial reason" here.
|
| (You don't have to trust CNN, though. "... the high court
| upheld a three-judge panel's ruling that the state
| illegally diluted the political power of Black voters by
| having only one majority Black congressional district..."
| - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/alabama-lawmakers-
| redraw-co...)
| Dig1t wrote:
| Here's a link to the actual site for the event:
| https://neshobacountyfair.org/digital-program/
|
| Flipping through the digital program is way more
| interesting/informative than this biased article.
| klyrs wrote:
| The majority of the article was positive, curious, and frankly
| enticing. At the end of the article, there was some criticism
| tinged with hope for the future. That's what balanced reporting
| traditionally looks like.
| joenot443 wrote:
| Wow - what a dull hit job. It starts off tame but it isn't long
| before the author makes her position clear: this gathering of
| families is a Bad Thing and represents a risk to American
| democracy and it's important to remember that the only reason
| people would ever celebrate southern legacy is racism.
|
| If you check out any of her other publications it's not hard to
| find a pattern.
|
| Who reads this stuff? Self assured coastal folks who are looking
| to justify their hatred of rural Americans? This piece wasn't
| written to educate or inform, just further stoke derision.
| atourgates wrote:
| If you're offended by a piece that suggests it's odd to have a
| week-long all white get-together in a state where 36% of the
| population is black, I'd suggest the piece and the author's
| supposed bias are not the issue.
| rbanffy wrote:
| I wouldn't think it's "odd" - some things grow out of
| traditions that are specific to a specific ethnic or cultural
| group. It's fair to point out their roots and it'd be
| interesting, perhaps, if the group worked to be more
| inclusive and teach this past as a way to educate kids not to
| make the same mistakes their grandparents made.
|
| Even if those mistakes had the positive side-effect of
| creating a nice family event.
| cycomanic wrote:
| So you are saying this grew out of a tradition that is
| specific to some ethnic group. Tell me what is the
| "tradition" in the south that excluded black people while
| white people are having a party?
|
| The answer might give you some clues.
| MaxHoppersGhost wrote:
| Would you be think it's odd if there are week long all black
| get togethers in Mississippi? Why the double standard?
| [deleted]
| Chris2048 wrote:
| Why, should every event have demographics that perfectly
| mirror state demographics?
| black6 wrote:
| This is the same state that hosts "Black Spring Break" and
| I haven't heard anyone complain about the lack of diversity
| or racial overtones of that event.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| I didn't say race doesn't matter, I responded to this
| comment:
|
| > If you're offended by a piece that suggests it's odd to
| have a week-long all white get-together in a state where
| 36% of the population is black
|
| Which wrt the history of the fair, is context-free.
| yardie wrote:
| Probably more White people attending "Black Spring Break"
| than Black people attending this event.
| greenie_beans wrote:
| here's a tldr why race matters in the context of the
| neshoba county fair:
|
| this is the same county where chaney, schwerner, and
| goodman were murdered. at the fair that year, the kkk
| dropped pamphlets from an airplane in response to their
| murder. clearly targeting the fair audience. this was
| during the freedom summer of 1964 if you know what that is?
|
| ronald reagan did a presidential campaign speech at the
| fair. a presidential candidate speaking there was unheard
| of at the time, but he was clearly following the "southern
| strategy". he proclaimed his belief in states rights, which
| has been a dog whistle since the civil war. the fair is a
| popular place for dog whistle political speeches.
|
| there are racial dynamics about who is allowed at the fair.
| none of the cabins are owned by black people. the owners of
| cabins are largely the ruling class in mississippi. during
| the day, spaces within the fair are segregated. most black
| people at the fair are workers or horse racers, etc.
|
| there are more reasons why race matters, but i have to
| work. you should read the article.
| atourgates wrote:
| They shoulnd't. But it's silly to pretend that context and
| history don't matter.
|
| This is a state where white people historically enslaved
| black people, where many of the white residents are
| descends of slave owners, and many of the black people are
| descendants of the enslaved. This is hours from where black
| 14-year old Emmett Till was tortured and murdered by a
| group of white people for the crime of (allegedly)
| whistling at a white woman.
|
| This is a state and county where the Klan was active and
| murdering civil rights workers in the 60s, and enforced Jim
| Crow Laws that made black people legally second class
| citizens until the voting rights act of 1965. This is a
| state where a Jim Crow Era voting restriction that
| disproportionately disenfranchised black voters was just
| struck down this year[1] by a very conservative supreme
| court.
|
| This is a state that celebrated the confederacy - an
| institution that existed for the purpose of enslaving black
| people - in its very state flag until 2020.
|
| I could of course go on, but you get the picture.
|
| Comments like yours ignore the reality and impact of this
| history and context.
|
| When a state where the white population has a history of
| around 200 years of first enslaving, and then attempting to
| subjugate the black population, it's worth pointing out (as
| the article does) that perhaps it's a little suspicious
| that they've now created a de facto whites only get-
| together.
|
| [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-
| news/2023/aug/04/mississippis...
| avgcorrection wrote:
| > This is a state where white people historically
| enslaved black people, where many of the white residents
| are descends of slave owners, and many of the black
| people are descendants of the enslaved.
|
| What does "many" mean? I would think that the vast
| majority of black people in this state are descendant of
| slaves while a minority of whites are descendant of slave
| owners because the slave owners were the upper class.
|
| Or else: since you have 32 great-great-great
| grandparents[1] I guess it gets exponentially more likely
| to be "descended from" someone the further back you go,
| but that doesn't seem to tell us much.
|
| [1] I guess these might not be 32 distinct individuals
| though due to distant inbreeding
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Estimates of slave ownership at the _household_ level
| range from about 20 to 30% of white Southerners. (You 'll
| see much lower numbers that try to mislead by a) giving
| the percentage against the entire US, including free
| states and b) by only counting the head of a household as
| the official "owner", not their spouse/children).
|
| That qualifies as "many" in my book, and pushes slave
| ownership well into parts of the middle class.
|
| (Slave labor was sometimes rented out to non-owners, as
| well.)
| avgcorrection wrote:
| Fair point. Thanks for informing me.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| > it's a little suspicious that they've now created a de
| facto whites only get-together
|
| except for the fact racially biased events exist in all
| states and nations
|
| unless you can say something specific about the fair,
| recounting state history isn't paying heed to context,
| it's pure speculation. I didn't "ignore history and
| context", I had add little to say about it that was
| relevant.
|
| in fact, racial history could lead to events being white
| biased, purely because they are white biased (ie races
| choose not to mix) without any other requirement.
| RajT88 wrote:
| The article mostly was spent talking about how amazing an event
| this was.
|
| There's a few paragraphs in the middle talking about race,
| which I assume you're taking issue with, starting with
| "Whenever I asked fairgoers about race...".
|
| The article is a look at a Southern cultural event with a long
| history. The history of southern culture also includes racism,
| and so no examination of it would be complete without a look at
| racial dynamics in play.
|
| This is just simply not a hit piece; it's just a thorough
| writeup.
|
| If you come from the conservative school of thought of,
| "Talking about race is itself racist", I can see how you might
| take issue with this article. Most sane and reasonable people
| do not come from that school of thought.
| greenie_beans wrote:
| lol the writer is from mississippi. we're forced to reckon with
| race there, unlike most places, hence we write about it.
|
| there is a long racist history at the fair. it's important to
| know about that history.
| MaxHoppersGhost wrote:
| You think the New Yorker would have published this article
| without bringing race into a completely unracist thing?
| greenie_beans wrote:
| no, they wouldn't publish it without exploring the racial
| dynamics, because race is central to understanding the
| neshoba county fair. therefore, they wouldn't publish it
| because it wouldn't be interesting to read.
|
| > a completely unracist thing
|
| you clearly do not know what you're talking about.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| To the New Yorker's demographic, race is central to
| everything. They feed an audience who fetishizes finding
| racism in the most obscure nooks and crannies of society.
| The piece is written to be pure self-masturbatory
| confirmation of "good" values for people who live in
| wealthy enclaves of coastal urban centers.
| throw4847285 wrote:
| And is the New Yorker demographic in the room with us
| right now?
| [deleted]
| egypturnash wrote:
| Politics doesn't come into this story at all until about
| halfway through, when it discusses how Reagan brought politics
| to this fair and started talking about his platform designed to
| get white rural voters to the polls. The entire first half of
| the article is all about what a warm, wholesome community
| springs up for a week.
|
| I grew up in New Orleans and I think it's pretty damn important
| to discuss how fucked up and racist the South is. It's not
| gonna get any better if we keep on sweeping it under the rug
| and ignoring it like it seems you want to.
| zenbane wrote:
| [flagged]
| catchnear4321 wrote:
| you only had to read to the end.
|
| > When she inherits her share, Derrick will own it with her,
| becoming the first owner of color in the cabin's history.
|
| if it were such a bad thing, why celebrate integration?
|
| because it isn't a bad thing. it is a complex thing. good and
| bad. just like the individual from la was called out for
| calling women "bitches," and was corrected to call them
| "ladies."
|
| it is a piece in the new yorker. it is a hit piece in the same
| way that one is attacked when they bump their head on a low
| doorway. if one were expecting an objective piece, one ought to
| have known better.
|
| but you didn't even bump your head. you only noticed you were
| about to.
|
| ...so it was fear that prompted your outburst?
| marcinzm wrote:
| >Who reads this stuff? Self assured coastal folks who are
| looking to justify their hatred of rural Americans? This piece
| wasn't written to educate or inform, just further stoke
| derision.
|
| If you want to minimize stoking derision look inwards first
| before you look outwards. It seems clear from what I quoted
| you're fine with derision as long as it's against the groups
| you don't like but not the other way around. Which is the real
| problem in america and not some new yorker article.
| madengr wrote:
| [dead]
| blantonl wrote:
| I didn't get that at all. Many of the topics covered later in
| the article are aren't a hit job, they are a reality and cover
| an underlying tone of the gathering. It seems like an amazing
| tradition and frankly a pretty cool thing. But, make no
| mistake, this is rural Mississippi we're talking about there.
|
| There are some uncomfortable truths.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I'm not from Mississippi, but from blue-collar Kansas. I
| think there can be something to celebrating a tradition of
| "white-trashiness" (ha ha) that is devoid of any racist
| over(under?)tones (Kansas though was of course a "free-
| state", so that legacy would not be a contributing factor to
| any perceived racism).
|
| Now that my sister and I are older, have left our roots,
| become (I hope) cosmopolitan, we can laugh about growing up
| on "shit-on-shingles" and meat-loaf sandwiches (and
| butter/sugar sandwiches, mayonnaise sandwiches, Jiffy corn
| muffins...).
|
| There is a part of me that could celebrate that. (Although
| when I stop and reflect, when the wife and I raised our own
| kids we kind of dispensed with our own "traditions" in favor
| of newly created ones -- except for shit-on-shingles maybe
| once a year.)
| blantonl wrote:
| There definitely is something great about these traditions,
| family, food etc. The article does a great job covering it.
| I was raised in the south, mostly southern Louisiana, and
| make no mistake many of these events are not "white-
| trashiness" celebrations. Owners of these cabins and the
| traditions that surround them are decidedly run, managed,
| and participated mostly by the "ruling families" of the
| rural south. And like I said, there are a lot of
| uncomfortable truths that accompany those families. It
| definitely is easy for "coastal elites" to look at this as
| simply a gathering of racists, but that paints an
| enormously broad brush.
|
| I'm definitely not going to sit here and decry the
| tradition of the events, because they are a great time. But
| at the same time, I grew up around a lot of these families
| and I know what's up. The rural areas of the south are
| absolutely no different than the 1950s other than federal
| law.
| [deleted]
| rascul wrote:
| I'm in rural Mississippi and around this area we have
| people of all shapes, sizes, and colors. We get along
| quite well. I don't know where this racist part of the
| state is. It's not the 1950s anymore.
| yardie wrote:
| 2 of the 3 Black attendants interview in this piece don't
| interact with the white attendants beyond a professional
| level. One is there to race horses, once that's over he
| doesn't stick around. The other is a homecare nurse who
| only came to look after her patient but was worried about
| her own safety outside the cabin.
|
| You may not like it but the subtext was clearly there.
| georgeburdell wrote:
| [flagged]
| panzagl wrote:
| Does every article about an event have to bring up the sordid
| history of the place it happens? Is Burning Man about the
| Mexican American War, massacred natives and Chinese railroad
| workers?
| klyrs wrote:
| Fairgoers wear that "sordid history" on their sleeves, and
| keep it alive. Why not talk about that?
| panzagl wrote:
| How so? Nothing in there program seemed racial or
| political.
| acdanger wrote:
| They do mention confederate flags on display, which is
| hard to imagine not being seen as political if not racial
| even in the South in 2023.
| pard68 wrote:
| > this is rural Mississippi we're talking about
|
| Sounds like you might have as many biases as you presume that
| they have.
| rbanffy wrote:
| There is no way to ignore the history of a place. It should
| be remembered, because, when people forget history, they
| end up repeating it, which would be terrible in this
| specific case.
|
| I grew up in a racist country, Brazil. We don't talk much
| about it, we don't have laws singling out races, and we
| are, on paper, very egalitarian, but make no mistake:
| existing while dark-skinned (Brazilians have and are aware
| of all shades of brown - I'm a very white Caucasian, my
| first wife was Moorish-Italian, our son is a mix) will get
| you searched by security and kicked out of places. I was
| caught doing things that would land anyone darker than me,
| my son included, in jail. I am aware of my privilege, even
| if I wasn't while growing up.
|
| It's everyone's responsibility not to repeat these errors
| and to do our best to break the cycles that perpetuate
| them.
| pard68 wrote:
| There is a world of difference between remembering the
| past and refusing to see people outside of a historic and
| antiquated context.
|
| OP is doing to these rural Mississippians what OP is
| accusing them of doing, and the article even mentions at
| the end that there was no problems. The only problems,
| ironically, are coming from others who are typecasting
| these southerners.
| Slava_Propanei wrote:
| [dead]
| irrational wrote:
| Me thinks thou dost protest too much.
| fitz-re wrote:
| https://archive.ph/ScoF2
| durkie wrote:
| i've been to this! my friend's family is obsessed with it. it is
| truly an institution there and a delightful car-free neighborhood
| springs up on the fairgrounds, nutritionally supported entirely
| by watermelon, loads of southern "salads" and deep fried garbage
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Yeah it's delightful! Must have something to do with all the
| rebel flags, and a complete lack of any non-white faces.
| Nicksil wrote:
| What's going on with your blatantly racist comments
| throughout this thread? Are you trying to be a jerk and/or
| get banned or is this your usual behavior? It doesn't seem to
| be which makes me curious to learn what has provoked this
| diatribe.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >What's going on with your blatantly racist comments
| throughout this thread?
|
| Pointing out racism is not racism. It _is_ received as such
| by racists though, (calling a white person racist is the
| closest they have to what hearing the N word feels like).
|
| Sorry for the lack of a "/s". But yes, this hit a nerve
| unfortunately.
| klyrs wrote:
| > The fair's inaugural picnic took place twenty-four years
| after the end of the Civil War. One of the founders was a
| Confederate veteran. In 1928, the second-place winner in
| one of the races was a horse named Ku Klux Klan. The
| pavilion has hosted a succession of segregationist
| governors and congressmen, and open support for the "Lost
| Cause" more or less continues to this day. On backstreets
| at this year's fair, at least six cabins flew the
| Confederate flag. The fair allows it.
|
| Why is it confusing that people talk about racism, when it
| flies free at the fair?
| Nicksil wrote:
| >Why is it confusing that people talk about racism, when
| it flies free at the fair?
|
| I don't understand your argument. I didn't mention
| anything concerning _talking about_ racism; it was _their
| racist comments_ I was referring to.
| Slava_Propanei wrote:
| [dead]
| rbanffy wrote:
| This sounds like a lot of fun.
|
| Reminds me we need more events to bring my neighborhood
| together.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| [flagged]
| KboPAacDA3 wrote:
| Has the author ever been to an Oktoberfest?
| compiler-guy wrote:
| Octoberfest is a giant party, but that's about all the two of
| these have in common.
| rbanffy wrote:
| Indeed. This looks like a Burning Man from the 1800's
| compiler-guy wrote:
| This fair is all about continuing a culture and heritage
| (both the good parts and the bad parts, unfortunately),
| whereas Burning Man is about creating a new society with
| radically different social mores and rules.
|
| All the classic Southern mores are in force there. The
| generous hospitality, terrific food, stories on the porch,
| and the unsavory parts as well. Most of it (but only most)
| is a beautiful thing. But it isn't trying to do anything
| progressive in any way.
|
| So although I see the similarities, these feel very
| different to me. I guess "big on community with everyone
| around you" is the biggest similarity, and perhaps a big
| difference between those two and Octoberfest--where people
| are friendly, but doesn't have community as front and
| center as the other two.
| rbanffy wrote:
| > So although I see the similarities, these feel very
| different to me.
|
| Still has more in common with Burning Man than with
| Oktoberfest.
| vuln wrote:
| [flagged]
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