[HN Gopher] Windows NT 3.1 on Dec Alpha AXP
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Windows NT 3.1 on Dec Alpha AXP
        
       Author : jandeboevrie
       Score  : 160 points
       Date   : 2023-10-03 04:47 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (virtuallyfun.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (virtuallyfun.com)
        
       | cbm-vic-20 wrote:
       | I worked at Digital on the Alpha/NT team at the time- the AXP 150
       | "Jensen" was my daily driver desktop- that machine, like most
       | other DEC hardware, was incredibly well built.
        
         | scruffyherder wrote:
         | Was the HAL really that compilcated?
         | 
         | It was listed as one of the reasons why Compaq had bailed on
         | NT.
         | 
         | Also were you involved at all with the 64bit versions of NT?
         | 
         | It's cool that checked build got out, and kind of funny how the
         | compiler was hiding in plain sight for decades, but glad I
         | spotted it.
        
       | OnlyMortal wrote:
       | We had one of those. Very quick though it ended up as a server
       | for mp3 files for the office.
        
       | mega_dingus wrote:
       | DEC's relationship with MS was fascinating
       | 
       | DEC sued MS due to Cutler's contribution to NT. DEC thought they
       | could sue themselves into MS's good graces. They had embroidered
       | polo shirts saying "Strategic Relationship", and saw several
       | employees wearing them, and the phrase was repeated often
       | 
       | DEC couldn't figure out why Office performed worse on Alpha than
       | x86. They sent an employee to MS, only to find MS had a single
       | build server stashed under some desk. MS was compiling Office
       | with -O0, obviously doing the absolute bare minimum to check a
       | box and move on with their lives.
       | 
       | Source: I'm a former DEC employee
        
         | panick21_ wrote:
         | Yeah that relationship is strange. Seems to me they should have
         | used that Cutler/MICA thing to make a huge amount of money and
         | help their PC division.
         | 
         | Not sure exactly what that 'Strategic Relationship' bought
         | them. Seems to me all the companies making partnerships with
         | Microsoft got shafted. Microsoft were always somehow able to
         | use getting sued into making profitable deals for them in the
         | long run. Because most companies didn't want to drive home the
         | dagger, but rather get a few concessions on some kind of
         | partnership.
        
         | eej71 wrote:
         | Former VMS user here. The whole "affinity" program that DEC
         | keep pushing just seemed confused and pointless. I think by the
         | time DEC management realized that they had "played themselves"
         | it was too late. And then the Itanium thing happened.
        
           | panick21_ wrote:
           | > And then the Itanium thing happened.
           | 
           | Its still funny to me how Itanium by its announcement
           | basically killed or significantly delayed most other
           | architectures only to turn out to be a dog.
        
             | hapless wrote:
             | Context is important.
             | 
             | All of those competing architectures were becoming
             | prohibitively expensive to enhance.
             | 
             | Alpha never paid for itself, ever, the market share was too
             | small. POWER and SPARC had multiple failed projects with
             | enormous capital costs. MIPS hit a performance dead-end
             | with such low market share SGI saw no way to rebuild. HPPA
             | was bleeding HP dry.
             | 
             | Itanium may have hastened their demise but all of these
             | archs had the same core problems with investment returns.
             | The writing was on the wall, and Intel was offering
             | something people desperately wanted. (Unfortunately for
             | everyone involved, it did not pan out.)
        
               | panick21_ wrote:
               | I that understand that context. But even so.
               | 
               | POWER and SPARC were continue to be developed. And its
               | hard to argue that either of them should have given up on
               | their architecture. POWER is still developed. It probably
               | made sense for Sun to stop working on SPARC eventually
               | but not when Itanium was announced. Sun problem was just
               | that they spend quite a bit of money, they were just
               | never actually very good at designing processors.
               | 
               | SGI was the most aggressive on telling everybody that
               | Itanium would be the future. And they paid for that. They
               | massively delayed MIPS upgrades (only to then start it
               | again once they realized it would take a while for
               | Itanium to come to the market). For a while after this
               | they still made their money on MIPS and all their
               | attempts to push Itanium pretty much fell flat. So
               | arguable it was smart for them to plan to eventually dump
               | MIPS but now how and when they tried to do it (Also I
               | don't disagree that MIPS was a deadend).
               | 
               | The deal HP got would have been fantastic if Intel had
               | adopted PA-RISC 64-bit instead of Itanium. Given what
               | happened HP wasn't really competitive with Sun 64-bit SMP
               | servers and Sun made a killing on those things before the
               | bubble. Once they bought Compaq and for a while were
               | selling SMP servers based on Alpha.
               | 
               | HP really should have continued to push Alpha after the
               | bought Compaq. The already had VMS ported to Alpha and a
               | large captured base willing to pay a little extra. They
               | aggressively ported VMS to Itanium and thanks to the
               | insane deal they made Intel had to manufacture them
               | processors for a decade+.
               | 
               | They are a large enough company and Alpha next few
               | version had the chance to be really great, with things
               | advanced vector extension and they had basically had the
               | best processor team in the world.
               | 
               | So yes, it was correct that all these companies wanted to
               | drop their development cost, but doing so before you know
               | really about Itanium and how good it was, that's
               | questionable and messed up all the strategies. There was
               | just an assumption that Itanium was gone be amazing.
               | Granted, VLIW processors were all the hype. Sun also
               | waste a bunch of money on VLIW processor technology in
               | the 90s and unlike HP, they didn't it on Intel.
               | 
               | Gordan Bell tried to hook up Alpha with Intel and make
               | Alpha the 64-bit architecture that Intel went with. That
               | would have been quite a different history. But for
               | various reasons this didn't happen, and instead Intel
               | went with HP and their next generation VLIW idea.
               | 
               | P.S: It would have been pretty smart of Sun went in on
               | Alpha in 1992, then they could have saved on development
               | threw out the 90s. DEC had built up a huge fabs to handle
               | Alpha but almost nobody bought it. They were really
               | looking for a high value costumer and couldn't find one.
               | 
               | Edit: > (Unfortunately for everyone involved, it did not
               | pan out.)
               | 
               | Well it wasn't unfortunate for everybody. Sun made quite
               | a bit of money for a few more years with SPARC. And so
               | did IBM with Power. I think those two companies were
               | happy with the Itanium failure.
        
               | lizknope wrote:
               | I remember when Rick Belluzzo became CEO at SGI. He
               | immediately started pushing Windows NT and Itanium
               | abandoning IRIX and MIPS. A lot of people wondered why
               | and it seemed like he was on the Microsoft payroll. Then
               | he left after about 1.5 years in 1999 to join Microsoft.
               | The whole thing still seems fishy to me.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Belluzzo
        
               | panick21_ wrote:
               | He pushed the same thing at HP as well. And the left
               | Microsoft soon after as well.
               | 
               | I think its more like that he was brought in by the board
               | because those were his opinions.
               | 
               | The board was sick of paying for development of MIPS and
               | IRIX. The believed their future was massive multicore
               | Itanium Windows IT systems. And because they wouldn't do
               | any of the development but would make the same kind of
               | profits, they would just print money.
               | 
               | This of course backfired in a whole bunch of different
               | ways.
        
         | fredsmith219 wrote:
         | I was running OpenVMS on VAX machines in that era. I couldn't
         | figure out why DEC wanted NT, a single user operating system,
         | for their mini computers. It made no sense to me. As an aside I
         | had an OpenVMS gig as recently as 2020. It was fun to dust off
         | my old DCL skills.
        
           | tssva wrote:
           | > I couldn't figure out why DEC wanted NT, a single user
           | operating system, for their mini computers.
           | 
           | When did you figure out that NT wasn't a single user
           | operating system?
        
             | postmodest wrote:
             | NT's support for multiplexed interactive user sessions is
             | piss-poor and has always come with a CAL restriction that
             | was _absurd_. To this day there's no real "multiuser on
             | consoles". (Yes yes, Citrix, rdp, Powershell Remoting,
             | OpenSSH: compare those with X and, I guess, also SSH, and
             | they suck.)
        
               | tssva wrote:
               | I'm not sure what the requirement for purchasing CALs has
               | to do with whether an OS is multi-user or not. I have
               | administered or been a user of interactive remote NT user
               | session systems going back to beta testing the initial
               | release of WinFrame in the mid 90's. Although worlds
               | better today, I would not have called it pisspoor even
               | then. Today RDS is much more capable than X on a unix
               | system.
        
               | tiahura wrote:
               | As someone else in that space in the mid 90s I would
               | agree that it was pretty remarkable nearly 30 years ago,
               | especially considering the competition.
        
               | Asooka wrote:
               | Windows supports much richer remote access than anything
               | built on X. I can log in using standard graphical login,
               | my keyboard layouts carry over, audio is transparently
               | handled, the screen size isn't tied to the existence of a
               | remote monitor and 3d acceleration just works. And all
               | that works out of the box with no setup necessary other
               | than enabling it.
               | 
               | On Linux, the only workflow I could get working was to
               | use x11vnc to control an existing local session. To log
               | in, I have to run x11vnc as root, pass it some magic
               | cookie (I have no idea what that is still, but some magic
               | incantation from SO did the trick), then once I log in,
               | the running x11vnc dies, and I have to restart it as a
               | regular user to control the session I just authenticated.
        
               | password4321 wrote:
               | A request for an official answer on CALs for Microsofts'
               | SSH port is about to turn 6 years old:
               | 
               | https://github.com/PowerShell/Win32-OpenSSH/issues/926
        
               | nullindividual wrote:
               | RDP is great. It works fluidly over 56k modems. X "sucks"
               | as it could never do that.
               | 
               | This argument works both ways.
        
           | icedchai wrote:
           | I have an Alpha here with OpenVMS! It's fun to play around
           | with. VMS was the first multi-user system I had access to,
           | way back when I was a teenager in the late 80's.
        
         | hypercube33 wrote:
         | Fascinating. Dave over at Dave's Garage on YouTube talks about
         | having a dec I believe -- if what you heard is true I wonder if
         | it was the sole machine you're talking about. Maybe he can shed
         | some light from the other side (Microsoft)
        
           | maaarghk wrote:
           | IIRC - he mentioned that someone _else_ had a DEC machine,
           | and actually used it as their dev box. The dev with the DEC
           | box person developed the kernel panic code, aka the blue
           | screen of death - and blue was chosen because that's the
           | default screen colour when the DEC box is turned on. The idea
           | was to reset the colour to the default before printing the
           | kernel panic message.
           | 
           | So while DEC NT is sort of a footnote, it did have this
           | pretty profound influence : )
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | Windows 3.x's fatal exception screens were also blue.
        
               | chungy wrote:
               | Indeed; I think Windows 2.0 even had it. The story might
               | sound plausible until the holes are poked in the
               | hypothesis.
        
             | jvert wrote:
             | This is a bit of a game of telephone - NT Alpha shipped
             | after NT 3.1 (i386 & Mips) and the port was done almost
             | entirely by DEC. The blue screen preceded the Alpha and was
             | really based on the color scheme from the firmware on the
             | Mips workstation which Microsoft built internally. And, of
             | course, the legendary SlickEdit, which was one of the
             | original editors available on Win32.
             | 
             | After NT 3.1, Microsoft assumed primary responsibility for
             | NT Alpha, although there were also some great people at
             | DECWest still involved.
             | 
             | source: me, I'm the 'someone _else_' who owned all the
             | Alpha stuff at Microsoft.
        
         | Damogran6 wrote:
         | The single best x86 computer I've ever used was a Dec Pentium
         | 90...updated eventually to a Pentium II-300. Dec hardware was
         | stupendous. Other systems were (obviously) faster and smaller
         | and probably cooler and more power efficient, but their
         | daughter card implimention of a CPU/RAM upgrade came from their
         | obvious expertise in the Server/Scientific Workstation market
         | with non x-86 architectures.
        
           | rasz wrote:
           | and resulted in project failure. Grant Saviers was
           | responsible for PC division in early nineties.
           | 
           | Oral History of Grant Saviers, part 2 of 2
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od830KDrLUU
           | 
           | Oral History of Grant Saviers part 1: http://archive.computer
           | history.org/resources/access/text/201... Oral History of
           | Grant Saviers part 2: https://archive.computerhistory.org/res
           | ources/access/text/20...
           | 
           | >As DEC's Corporate Vice President of PC Systems and
           | Peripherals from 1990 to 1992 Grant successfully restarted
           | DEC's PC business from a dormant state and grew revenues to
           | $350M and break-even profitability in 18 months.
           | 
           | @18 minute timestamp - they copied DELL strategy and did
           | pretty good, business was growing and then DEC founder and
           | CEO Ken Olsen decided to kill it. Grant got recruited to lead
           | Adaptec.
        
             | Damogran6 wrote:
             | Awww. Boss had a Digital HiNote that seemed like a pretty
             | nifty laptop compared to the competition at the time. https
             | ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_HiNote#/media/File:DEC...
        
               | nxobject wrote:
               | What a pity... it seemed like "what should DEC doing in
               | the 90s, and how is it related to DEC's historical
               | identity?" was the question when looking back at their
               | 90's strategy - and it seemed like thoughtfully
               | engineered hardware, even if on a commodity architecture,
               | is one of them.
               | 
               | Even if it wasn't the full stack integration from
               | semiconductor fabrication, to OS and networking, that
               | they were used to.
        
             | panick21_ wrote:
             | Killed by Ken Olson? That doesn't really make sense? They
             | still had the PC division in like 1994 long after Ken was
             | gone? Or am I getting the timeline wrong? Maybe just slowed
             | it.
             | 
             | I haven't yet listened to those Oral histories, but thanks
             | for pointing out another that's focused on DEC.
             | 
             | Love those oral histories. I wish sometimes they were
             | longer and asked some more in detail question about certain
             | things. But I guess you can't keep people for 10h straight.
             | 
             | Edit: Where the hell is the video for Part 1? Doesn't
             | exist?
        
               | rasz wrote:
               | From what I understand Ken killed the idea of using cheap
               | commodity parts and moved PC division hardware design
               | inhouse thus turning profit making venture into huge
               | money sink.
               | 
               | Part 1 doesnt exist in video form :(
        
               | panick21_ wrote:
               | The document I linked in my top-level post suggest that
               | PC division was doing Ok by 1994 but that document is
               | written by an insider who was not directly working on the
               | PC stuff.
               | 
               | > Part 1 doesnt exist in video form :(
               | 
               | Guess I have to go old school and read it :)
        
         | scruffyherder wrote:
         | i'd probably blame the compiler. It's a weird mess of DEC
         | objects being glued together to run on NT (Like the MIPS/PPC
         | ones too). And if you wanted to make anything that for sure ran
         | on all CPU type's you'd build /Od. Doing /O2 or /Ox was a
         | recipe to run nowhere.
         | 
         | The real shame is that 64bit beta compiler does such a
         | substantially better job on the Alpha, but like everything else
         | once everything started to gel, it suddenly imploded.
        
           | mega_dingus wrote:
           | Compiler was definitely somewhat to blame. I was on the C/C++
           | team at the time, and C++ was definitely an afterthought on
           | the existing C frontend, of a big 3-stage compiler
           | 
           | I was on Digital UNIX so I didn't deal with VMS or Windows
           | much. But Digital UNIX couldn't get out of their way with
           | object file formats (COFF vs ELF and whatever else), on top
           | of the compiler inefficiencies
           | 
           | A recipe for disaster when the MS company employee doesn't
           | want to do it in the first place, and you give them an
           | artisan product that's hard to use properly
        
             | scruffyherder wrote:
             | damn so many potential questions, but I don't know if you
             | can answer any as I know most people that were in those
             | pivotal years are so cagey about it.
        
       | panick21_ wrote:
       | The more I learn about history of computing, the more it seems
       | like DEC canceling of Project PRISM (and Project MICA) is at the
       | center of a lot of history.
       | 
       | Project MICA would have yield a very modern OS that could have
       | supported both Unix and VMS interfaces and it would be only
       | natural to add whatever Windows would come up with in addition to
       | that. That PRISM and MICA seem to be a real paths forward for
       | everything from workstation to multicore servers. We later saw
       | with Alpha what DEC was capable of and PRISM also did a lot of
       | compiler work that was also used for the Alpha compiler later.
       | But that was quite a bit later of course.
       | 
       | First of all, Cutler and lots of others went to Microsoft and
       | developed Windows NT. Without Cutler, this project would look
       | very different. Bill Gates was seriously arguing for having no
       | virtual memory on this OS! Absolutely crazy to think what would
       | have happened.
       | 
       | If DEC had expanded, rather then contracted its team there, it
       | would have been quite a difference, with two major companies
       | developing a next generation OS in the area. I think DEC was
       | generally more popular for technical people then Microsoft.
       | 
       | Then for DEC, their workstation strategy went to MIPS/Ultrix
       | witch was moderately successful but that whole thing was then
       | killed in favor of Alpha/OSF1. This created a lot of bad blood by
       | the people that were stuck on MIPS/Ultrix. DEC was one of the few
       | companies that really went all in on the whole OSF stuff. Just
       | like Sun, it might have been smarter to stick with BSD base
       | rather then System V SVR4 base (love to hear from somebody inside
       | about this topic).
       | 
       | Because PRISM didn't happen over the next couple years the VAX
       | line suffered from pretty bad price to performance. Management
       | also seem not committed to VMS as OSF and NT became big parts of
       | their strategy.
       | 
       | So this post about running Windows NT+Alpha is really kind of a
       | result of this canceling of PRISM/MICA.
       | 
       | I reading some books on DEC now but during some online browsing I
       | found this interesting document from somebody at DEC from late
       | 1994: https://www.dgregscott.com/wp-
       | content/uploads/2020/11/demise...
       | 
       | Gorden Bell's Post Script on 'DEC is Dead, Long Live DEC' was
       | also a great read.
        
         | lizknope wrote:
         | My school had at least a thousand DEC MIPS/Ultra/pmax
         | workstations in 1993. When they announced they were killing the
         | line we bought thousands of Suns and HP-UX machines. I remember
         | seeing 2 Alpha machines in a special computer lab and I could
         | log in but none of our engineering software ran on it. Maybe in
         | a few years but I graduated by then.
        
           | panick21_ wrote:
           | This is kind of the crux of the issue. Alpha came out with
           | great performance (but pretty expensive) in general but some
           | issues related to performance of Unix and strings.
           | 
           | They killed the MIPS/Ultrix line but gave people no path to
           | move to Alpha/Ultrix. Ultrix was never ported to Alpha. Only
           | Alpha/OSF1 so a fundamental hardware and software shift.
           | 
           | Its easier to go to SPARC/SunOS or SPARC/Solaris and they had
           | lots of machines from cheaper to more expensive. For schools
           | they often bought the slightly cheaper workstations.
           | 
           | Alpha 64bit wasn't really a hugely important feature that
           | point in time. This again where starting with 32-bit PRISM
           | would have been a better move.
           | 
           | At the same time, their VAX line was still not Alpha, they
           | bet on NVAX for quite a long time. So the VMS crowed didn't
           | need to switch to Alpha.
           | 
           | DEC wanted to make Alpha an industry standard but then they
           | had little interest in working with Apple to get volume. The
           | big workstation/server vendors had their own ISAs and since
           | DEC also wanted to compete in those market simply adopting a
           | new standard from DEC was just not gone happen. And as a new
           | standard for lower priced machines it just not gone happen,
           | 64-bit was totally wrong for markets like that and you would
           | need Windows/Intel to even have a shot at that. It was also
           | not good for embedded so DEC went with StrongARM.
           | 
           | DEC just made really bad strategy choices starting in late
           | 1988s. By 1986 they had started the VAX9000 project. That
           | might be fine but by 1988 you have to realize that project
           | was dead and simply kill it, and rush out VAX based on PRISM
           | with nice high quality VMS port.
        
         | glhaynes wrote:
         | >Bill Gates was seriously arguing for having no virtual memory
         | on this OS!
         | 
         | That'd surprise me. This was a time when one of the major
         | limiting factors to NT adoption was it needing "a lot" of RAM.
         | And he'd had plenty of experience with virtual memory,
         | including his own company's Xenix and OS/2.
        
         | scruffyherder wrote:
         | Had DEC no cancelled, NT would have never been, and Gates
         | wouldn't have had the confidence to abandon OS/2.
         | 
         | So in the end we all won, just Dec had to die.
         | 
         | But DEC only saw Altavista as a toy, something for showing off
         | big systems, or doing personal desktop search. The missed such
         | incredible opportunity.
        
           | panick21_ wrote:
           | Not sure why you say windows not doing OS/2 is so great?
           | 
           | OS/2 was a reasonable good OS and a history based on OS/2
           | rather then Windows 95 and friends seems to be a pretty good
           | path forward.
           | 
           | And OS/2 being Microsoft and IBM would have made Microsoft
           | not quite as powerful and dominate.
           | 
           | > The missed such incredible opportunity.
           | 
           | DEC was sold for around 10 billion, just a few years later
           | Altavista alone was sold for around 2 billion.
           | 
           | And Altavista was valued basically 0 in the Compaq
           | acquisition. Compaq seem to really only value the Services
           | division, everything else they didn't care about.
        
       | ethanpil wrote:
       | I remember reading during this era that Bill Gates' daily driver
       | was a Dec Alpha workstation running NT... Don't remember the
       | source.
        
       | lizknope wrote:
       | Does anyone remember the FX!32 binary translator?
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX!32
       | 
       | I remember Linux had some version of this as well as the ability
       | to run OSF/1 binaries.
        
       | spandextwins wrote:
       | That's great! I've got an old copy of visual studio and windows
       | nt 3.1 in the closet, ran on mips, alpha, sparc and intel. Back
       | when Microsoft was cross platform.
        
         | Furball37 wrote:
         | I'm 100% sure you're misremembering it running on SPARC, NT
         | never ran on SPARC.
        
           | dagw wrote:
           | Correct. NT 3.1 ran on x86, Alpha and MIPS. NT 3.5 added
           | PowerPC support. As you say, SPARC was never supported.
           | 
           | Windows 2000 had both x86 and Alpha support up through the
           | release candidate, but Alpha was dropped before final
           | release. I actually had an Alpha workstation running Windows
           | 2000 (for fun) back in the mists of time.
        
             | omnibrain wrote:
             | Later there was Windows XP 64-Bit Edition for Itanic
             | Workstations and there was Windows Server up to 2008 R2 for
             | Itanic Servers.
        
               | scruffyherder wrote:
               | Itanium XP was weird, it's like that super early AMD64
               | version where more of the OS is 32bit than 64bit, with no
               | high theming.
               | 
               | It was still exciting at the time.
        
             | Furball37 wrote:
             | There's also the Beta Whistler AXP64 Build which was used
             | to port Windows over to 64-bit before there was any 64-bit
             | hardware available that could run NT. The people in the
             | virtuallyfun discord got that running (I am part of that! I
             | have an AlphaServer 800 5/500 next to me, with some hacks
             | to the setup and telling it what HAL DLL to load it
             | installed perfectly!)
        
           | slamonjam wrote:
           | There was an announcement that Intergraph would port Windows
           | NT to SPARC: http://ftp.lanet.lv/ftp/sun-
           | info/sunflash/1993/Jul/55.11-Sun...
           | 
           | Guess it never went anywhere.
        
             | kjs3 wrote:
             | It didn't. There are rumors it got out to a handful of
             | alpha/beta sites, but it was never a supported product.
        
         | nullindividual wrote:
         | After NT 3.1, I don't think Microsoft was ever a single
         | processor architecture company.
         | 
         | Beyond what NT supported, WinCE entered the picture in the very
         | late 90s with ARM support among other architectures.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | Even before then, their cash cow was first BASIC
           | implementations, on at least 6502 and 8080 relatively
           | initially.
           | 
           | Then Multiplan ran on most of the major microcomputers of the
           | time.
           | 
           | It's interesting that in their history, strict Wintel is more
           | the anomaly in their history.
        
         | markhahn wrote:
         | instead of sparc, I wonder if you were remembering the i860,
         | which certainly ran NT/OS2.
        
           | dboreham wrote:
           | There was a sparc port. I don't think it was ever public
           | though.
        
           | spandextwins wrote:
           | Whoops, it wasn't sparc but PowerPC. I've also got a copy of
           | CodeWarrior for sparc. Lots of oldies but goodies. A few big
           | boxes of them. Someday I'll have to do something with them.
           | Not sure if I'd get sued if I rip them and post them
           | someplace.
        
         | luma wrote:
         | They still are, ARM is widely supported. There just aren't many
         | other platforms in wide use today to target.
        
       | treve wrote:
       | Is it just me or has there been a resurgence of interest in the
       | Windows 3 era of computing lately? Both actual machines and
       | aesthetically I see things flash by a lot.
        
         | nullindividual wrote:
         | Nostalgia from elder millennials such as myself fuel this fire.
         | When computing was much more of an academic exercise than
         | commercial. When new, always incompatible hardware and software
         | was released. Higher variety of OSes and processor
         | architectures, which is interesting to those of us who were too
         | young to purchase equipment.
         | 
         | Etc...
        
           | snerbles wrote:
           | There were so many cool exotic systems that I read about in
           | books and magazines, but never had the resources or knew the
           | right people to actually play with. Parents and school admins
           | barely knew what that newfangled information superhighway
           | was, and later on _at best_ the stock response to  "I want to
           | learn C" was "we aren't paying $1,000 for Visual Studio" -
           | GNU was a completely unknown concept until I stumbled across
           | Slashdot some time in 2000. I imagine similar stories played
           | out for many a mid-90s rural computer nerd.
           | 
           | Second-hand nostalgia, if you will.
        
         | M95D wrote:
         | I think it's a backlash against touch-UIs forced on on destop
         | users: everything is flat, lots and lots of empty wasted screen
         | space, huge buttons, no borders, no scroll bars, etc.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | I had a stack of surplus purchase alphas i used for all sorts of
       | things. All but one of them we put SRM bios on when we got them;
       | but that one was for some reason unable to take it and so was
       | stuck with ARC and (as i recall) wouldn't boot linux.
       | 
       | So I gave that one to my teenage nephew, who ran NT on it and
       | became quite the Windows geek with a successful sysadmin career.
       | "I ran NT on Alpha as a teen" is a pretty good resume enhancer, I
       | guess.
        
         | garciasn wrote:
         | I had one of the UDBs back in the late 90s and used it as a MP3
         | server/foot heater running RH 5.2 (I believe; it's been 25+
         | years). My wife made me recycle it when we were cleaning out
         | our house before our first child.
         | 
         | I should have kept it as a combo doorstop and space heater.
        
       | webdoodle wrote:
       | After trying and failing to get MS Access to function on a DEC
       | Alpha server, I finally gave up and installed SQL Server. It was
       | a massive performance increase for many reasons, most of which
       | related to MS Access being trash, but the better memory
       | management in SQL server was part of it as well.
       | 
       | Sadly MS dropped support for Alpha, and changed the pricing
       | models on NT and SQL Server so much it became unaffordable for
       | small businesses. In 2 cuts, I watched the future of databases
       | crumble.
        
       | _ph_ wrote:
       | I saw once one :) For a very short time, the German computer
       | retail chain "Vobis" would sell Dec Alpha machines with Windows
       | NT 3.1. Too bad that didn't expand later on. It would have been
       | great for the computer market, if more competition to Intel had
       | existed longer.
        
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