[HN Gopher] Humane, a startup full of ex-iPhone talent, trying t...
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       Humane, a startup full of ex-iPhone talent, trying to make phones
       obsolete
        
       Author : bilsbie
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2023-10-01 20:04 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.inverse.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.inverse.com)
        
       | bko wrote:
       | > Humane is trying to realize the promise of "ambient computing"
       | -- an artificial intelligence-driven computing experience that's
       | personal and contextual -- by building a software platform and
       | hardware line that doesn't rely on screens.
       | 
       | Sorry, I think that's too many buzz words for me to comprehend
       | and I can't take it seriously. Phones provide us some utility. If
       | you can make some other interface that helps me ask for GPS
       | directions or check my emails, sure. But if you're lumping in all
       | this other crap, I know you're just selling vaporware.
       | 
       | > Based on Chaudhri's explanation, Humane's chosen path lies in
       | artificial intelligence. Building experiences around interactions
       | with AI that fit around someone's normal life instead of forcing
       | them to shape theirs around another screen. In Humane's words,
       | the company is helping to build the "Intelligence Age," a new
       | paradigm of computing based on journalist Walt Mossberg's idea of
       | the "disappearing computer."
       | 
       | What does this mean? I'm bored for the 40 seconds it takes me to
       | catch and take an elevator. So I look at social media. Or I'm
       | riding a bus or train. Or I just want to take a break from work,
       | or get GPS instructions. How does Humane solve my problem (is
       | there a problem)? By showing me a social media feed on my wrist
       | instead of a screen? Sounds like a privacy nightmare to try to
       | use AI and constant feed to estimate my fiber intake and predict
       | when I'm going to need to entertain myself for ten minutes for it
       | to preload my social media feed.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | "Press or say 1 if you want directions"
         | 
         | "Press or say 2 if you want to make a phone call"
         | 
         | "Press 9 to repeat the menu"
        
         | dcow wrote:
         | You know that feeling when something is trying just a little
         | too hard? That's hu.ma.ne. I mean look at the domain alone.
         | It's nonsense. Compare it to the place they left: apple.com.
         | Then there's the TED talk. What relevant _anything_ debuted via
         | TED? Most things that get the TED treatment end up being
         | vaporware.
         | 
         | I think there's potential in the technology they're developing
         | as a different type of watch-like device. But all this other
         | cult-like nonsense is way overkill and if I'd have to wager I'd
         | probably pass.
        
         | ToValueFunfetti wrote:
         | >Humane is trying to realize the promise of "ambient computing"
         | -- an artificial intelligence-driven computing experience
         | that's personal and contextual -- by building a software
         | platform and hardware line that doesn't rely on screens.
         | 
         | This reads to me as along the lines of, "I speak aloud to an AI
         | and it replies, rather than taking something out of my pocket",
         | but 'ambient', 'artifical intelligence', and 'doesn't rely on
         | screens' are carrying the weight there. The rest seem like
         | features of such a system.
        
           | bko wrote:
           | So airpods with a better assistant? Or Google Glass? Just be
           | up front and don't bs me
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _Sorry, I think that 's too many buzz words for me to
         | comprehend and I can't take it seriously._
         | 
         | This seems pretty straightforward to me.
         | 
         | "Ambient computing" and "no screens" imply a voice interface
         | (think: earbuds, watch, Trek-like communicator), potentially
         | leveraging augmented reality (think: glasses, windshield)
         | if/when available.
         | 
         | "Personal" and "contextual" suggest that interactions leverage
         | all available signals instead of requiring that you explicitly
         | share all necessary background info as a preamble, and also
         | suggest a level of proactiveness (vs. today's mostly reactive
         | user experiences).
         | 
         | Maybe in that 40 seconds the device could remind you that you
         | wanted to get pasta and suggest the most convenient place to
         | pick it up, update you on recent headlines, ask if it should
         | book your flu shot, or whatever. These seem like nice
         | alternatives to doomscrolling.
        
           | 15457345234 wrote:
           | > "Personal" and "contextual" suggest that interactions
           | leverage all available signals instead of requiring that you
           | explicitly share all necessary background info as a preamble,
           | and also suggest a level of proactiveness (vs. today's mostly
           | reactive user experiences).
           | 
           | Could you please elaborate
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _Could you please elaborate_
             | 
             | Sure, here's an example for "contextual": If I'm in my
             | office and say, "Alexa turn on the light", it has no idea
             | what I'm talking about. A contextually-aware device would
             | use some mix of signals -- what Bluetooth devices are
             | nearby, when my voice reached the mic compared to other
             | devices within earshot, the sound of typing, etc. -- to
             | determine where I am and do the right thing.
             | 
             | Similarly, an example for "proactive": My family has used
             | Alexa for years, and it hasn't noticed a single routine. I
             | haven't bothered to manually program routines because I've
             | decided I no longer want to invest time in anything that
             | locks me into the platform. But a proactive device would
             | eventually figure out that humans tend to need light in
             | dark rooms.
        
           | usrusr wrote:
           | Anything smaller than a phone implies even more cloud bound.
           | It might be "ambient", it might be "contextual", but it sure
           | won't be "personal". As in my device, my data, my decisions.
           | "Personalized", sure, but that's merely a distraction from
           | the fact that you are operating a thin client with zero
           | control. A browser allows you to scroll through offerings, a
           | voice interface will send you right to the highest bidder.
        
         | PumpkinSpice wrote:
         | > If you can make some other interface that helps me ask for
         | GPS directions or check my emails, sure. But if you're lumping
         | in all this other crap, I know you're just selling vaporware.
         | 
         | Not that I want to defend this particular startup, but if I
         | described the functions of a modern-day smartphone to you back
         | in the 1980s, you'd probably have the same reaction, right? A
         | lot of random, unrelated crap lumped together!
         | 
         | Most of the time, it goes nowhere. But just because somebody is
         | trying to combine a bunch of hitherto-unrelated use cases
         | doesn't mean that the idea is dumb.
        
           | maronato wrote:
           | I don't think that's an apt comparison. The smartphones of
           | today allow us to do things unimaginable to people in the
           | 80s.
           | 
           | This startup doesn't seem to be creating any new use for the
           | technology in your phone, just changing the way you interact
           | with it from a glass screen to a projected screen on your
           | hand or countertop.
        
           | bko wrote:
           | Jobs did a great job showing off the first iPhone. iPod +
           | phone + Internet.
           | 
           | And of course iPod was 1000 songs in your pocket.
           | 
           | This is what made it successful. Not bs. We think about jobs
           | as very head in the clouds and saying things like computer is
           | really like a bicycle, but he was very practical and clear
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/x7qPAY9JqE4?si=2OZiIU95haYTyiHn
        
       | emadabdulrahim wrote:
       | Wouldn't bet a dollar on this company's vision. Smoke and mirror.
       | 
       | They claim to obsess over design with their overly designed
       | website, but the presmise and vision of the product seem so out
       | of touch with reality.
       | 
       | Also they've been around for a long while now and haven't shipped
       | a thing except their laughable merch products with their
       | obnoxious and trite slogans on them
        
         | 15457345234 wrote:
         | It's one of those cases where the more (of this article/press
         | release) you read, the less you understand about what it is
         | they actually do and what any of their products would actually
         | look like.
         | 
         | > haven't shipped a thing except their laughable merch
         | 
         | Yeah that's a big tell
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | I think pervasive ubiquitous & ambient computings are all in
       | early phases, but have a long-run massive impact. We're in a
       | lull, where the big players are realizing conversational chatbots
       | for example aren't going to be a major profit driver anytime
       | soon, but they also kind of know that there's existential risk to
       | having nothing on this part of the platform map. But we're also
       | seeing a world where multi-device control is expected, where we
       | have expanded our computing horizons well past the single system
       | single display model. And where new modalities like voice control
       | and watch control are growingly expected. It makes sense for
       | groups to pioneer here, for advanced players to try hard.
       | 
       | Rather than cloud my mind with negativity - and yes I have plenty
       | of doubts - some of the hints here have some promise. They seem
       | to have a lot more respect for personal data, and the tech scene
       | desperately needs some less shady players to redeem it's image &
       | help us compute & connect.
       | 
       | Their tech looking to use a laser projector for overlaying
       | information seems like an interesting idea. VR and AR (XR) have
       | been a major fixation for tech for a while, but wearing a display
       | keeps having downsides, and the promise here of combining digital
       | augmentations atop the real world, without so big a downside,
       | seems promising to me. It would be cool to lookup weather or
       | recipes or get other infographics quickly. I could totally see
       | kit-ing out a room with a couple moderately priced projects for
       | this purpose.
       | 
       | There's a long proud history of post-display ubicomp in general.
       | The Nomad wearable comes to mind as a prominent early device.
       | 
       | There's some low-effort negative swipes sayiny 'if I can't
       | teleconference on it it's no good to me' but we are surrounded by
       | screens. Most of them aren't ours don't do our will, but part of
       | the pervasive/ubicomp dream has always been to make these ambient
       | peripherals more broadly available. Even if you do have such a
       | hard fast need, I could imagine a world where it didn't
       | necessarily have to be my own device that I carry that I needed
       | to teleconference. I can imagine ubicomp winning, advancing
       | enough, such that I would be well setup everywhere. Further, it's
       | not hard for me to imagine a device which is mostly not screen
       | oriented, which is mainly about other modalities, but which
       | indeed does have a small screen to fallback on.
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | This thing? lol.
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/88Stash/status/1708284463271342113
        
       | likeclockwork wrote:
       | They're going to get so much VC money.
        
       | w-m wrote:
       | Earlier this year we built a live depth estimation system in our
       | research lab. It uses a small laser projector with visible light
       | and an event camera to estimate the depth of the projected
       | points. You get a point cloud of whatever surface or object
       | you're projecting on, while being free to project any content
       | [0]. Also it's fast enough to process 1280x720 points at 60 Hz
       | with a laptop CPU.
       | 
       | Explaining this work and use cases can sometimes be a bit of a
       | struggle. Maybe if "ambient computing" is established as a widely
       | known buzzword, imma have to steal it to make that part of the
       | job a little easier. Until now I was mostly going with mixed
       | reality.
       | 
       | [0]: https://fraunhoferhhi.github.io/X-maps/
        
         | raphman wrote:
         | Cool research that seems quite relevant for my own research.
         | Thank you for sharing!
        
       | camillomiller wrote:
       | Until they show us something more than a boxy little calculator
       | with clever product placement and an Aliexpress-sourced laser
       | beamer, I claim vaporware.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | What do you think the first iPhone prototypes looked like?
        
           | pazimzadeh wrote:
           | They didn't talk about them on any stage at that stage
        
       | alpaca128 wrote:
       | Countless smartphone users like to use Instagram, Tiktok,
       | YouTube, mobile games, and so on, all things only possible with a
       | screen. Meanwhile nothing could prevent Google and Apple from
       | implementing the same kind of AI controls on their phones. The
       | only thing that remains is the laser projector and it doesn't
       | seem like people are excited about it.
       | 
       | Many don't actually want a "world without displays", and goals
       | like a better "human experience" look _vastly_ different between
       | different people. I 'm guessing those startup founders like
       | interacting with people and want tech to be in the background,
       | meanwhile I'm the opposite. The smartphone in its current shape
       | happens to be the compromise most users find good enough, and it
       | doesn't involve a lot of voice-based commands even though they've
       | been supported to some degree for years. Maybe this device is
       | good, but it's not made for the mainstream user of 2023.
        
       | pazimzadeh wrote:
       | Sorry for being negative, but Humane as-is is going nowhere. It
       | can't do video calls, it sucks. You'd have to have an iPhone and
       | one of these. AirPods Pro 5 will do 99% of what this can do
       | through voice.
       | 
       | Sorry for saying something irrelevant, but I wish Apple would put
       | e-ink (or equivalent) displays on the back of iPhones and iPads.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | The iPhone 1 wasn't a very capable phone either.
        
           | p_l wrote:
           | the 3G upgrade that also introduced app store felt positively
           | clunky compared to some phones then in use. Arguably
           | explosion of the App Store quickly turned into major
           | differentiator
        
           | rvba wrote:
           | The technology that came after Iphone 1 made it look
           | uncapable, but at the time when it came out it was better
           | than everything else - and it made you feel like you "live in
           | the future".
           | 
           | In my opinion some sort of this technology would be very
           | useful. If not this, then something else. Being able to see
           | the map on the car window, or a map when you walk, or
           | information about products (something similar to Google lens
           | but no hands).
           | 
           | I can easily imagine warehouse workers using this to tell
           | them which box of little chips to pick-up. Of course everyone
           | talks about building completely automated warehouses, but
           | still there are lots of non automatic ones.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Compared to its competition? It absolutely was.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | People don't remember it didn't have any apps.
        
           | WoodenChair wrote:
           | > The iPhone 1 wasn't a very capable phone either.
           | 
           | The original iPhone was one of the first phones to have
           | visual voicemail. That alone made it a revolution compared to
           | the phone experience before it. Before iPhone you dialed some
           | voicemail box and had to listen through 4 messages before you
           | got to the one you cared about. Yeah if you weren't there
           | it's hard to understand how bad of an experience it was.
        
           | pazimzadeh wrote:
           | It wasn't too shabby
        
       | fidotron wrote:
       | This looks like an attempt to commercialise the ideas in
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrtANPtnhyg
       | 
       | Projectors have a killer problem which is they aren't very
       | bright, and those that are bright enough to be useful are
       | dangerous to everyone nearby.
        
         | usrusr wrote:
         | And even if you ignore the danger, battery draw would just
         | kills all non-stationary applications.
        
       | crooked-v wrote:
       | This really reminds of the buzz around the original Segway
       | release.
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | I wish they'd pair with an ear piece and the primary interface is
       | the Ai talking to you.
       | 
       | Then projection would be secondary.
       | 
       | Also It would be interesting for privacy if the Ai updates its
       | weights from everything it sees and hears but there's no way to
       | get that data out of the device.
       | 
       | You could still ask it to specifically take photos and recordings
       | but that would be no different than a smartphone today.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Ear pieces and AI computing devices (your cell phone) already
         | exist. Humane is entirely unnecessary to get to the experience
         | you are describing. The company's entire selling point is that
         | projection thing.
        
       | cookiengineer wrote:
       | https://hu.ma.ne/media/humanexcoperni
       | 
       | So vague, too much buzz for me to understand...
        
         | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
         | This seems like a scam to me.
        
       | Probiotic6081 wrote:
       | I'll sell my Cicret Bracelet for one of those when it comes out.
        
       | ellis0n wrote:
       | The film "In Time" showed this feature back in 2011.
        
       | maxk42 wrote:
       | > Humane will reveal its first pass at its ambient computing idea
       | in Spring 2023.
       | 
       | Okay, so an outdated article that already shows the company is
       | failing to keep its promises. These are a dime a dozen, I'm
       | afraid.
        
         | lgg wrote:
         | I find the whole idea unappealing, but they did keep their
         | promise and show off a prototype back in
         | spring://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsQO5u7-NQ
        
         | spicybright wrote:
         | There's been at least 2 attempts on kickstarter for this same
         | idea. One traditional projection which is bulky as hell, really
         | bad brightness drop off, and you can't see it in the light.
         | 
         | Another was some kind of laser based thing that had the same
         | issues.
         | 
         | Oh, and a very old one, probably 2009 from MIT or something.
         | It's a projector you wore on a long necklace that would project
         | stuff on your arms and hands. That one actually worked decently
         | in tech demos they showed. It could track your hands and arms
         | so you could gesture out stuff.
         | 
         | Still, I have very little hope this will pull through. Not sure
         | how the iPhone devs can help much with the main hurtle being
         | the hardware that doesn't exist or have a working proof of
         | concept.
         | 
         | Edit: I'm going to put my foot in my mouth on this one, I just
         | say the ted talk in the adjacent comment and it seems to
         | actually work. Smart they went with chest mounted vs bulky
         | wrist watch.
        
       | zie wrote:
       | I'd rather the Apple Watch replace the iPhone. Apple doesn't seem
       | totally against the idea, but they don't seem to be in any hurry
       | either.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | An Apple Watch with cellular capabilities is that? I presume
         | they want it connected to an iPhone at least to maintain iPhone
         | sales, but you can leave the iPhone at home.
        
       | vcg3rd wrote:
       | As powerful as the Internet is, there has been fewer
       | transformative technologies developed from 1950 to now than from
       | the steam engine to 1950.
       | 
       | Just a few: radio, radar, penicillin, automobiles, telephone,
       | refrigeration ( _huge_ ), air flight, train transport, x-rays,
       | and much much more.
       | 
       | Rewrite the headline to "make phone calls obsolete" and it'll
       | give you 1) an idea of how transformative voice transmissions
       | were (and still are for families) and 2) an idea of how people
       | forget what phones are actually good for.
       | 
       | If I had to give up everything on my smart phone except one
       | function I would keep the ability to speak to my mother,
       | children, and grandchildren.
       | 
       | Yes, I could use VoIP on my desktop if I wanted, but I don't want
       | and I can't take my desktop with me. I can buy a GPS, radio/mp3
       | player, camera,e-book reader and more to replace those functions.
       | I would retain voice calls and give up only what? Social media? I
       | don't use any. Email when not at home (yawn)? Surfing the Web?
        
         | wizofaus wrote:
         | Losing the camera function would be annoying, as would the
         | ability to use it as a credit/travel card etc. - I'd have to go
         | back to using dedicated devices for that. Whereas you're right
         | - the ability to talk (/communicate) with people virtually
         | wherever you (and they) are in the world is still what makes it
         | a truly transformative technology with no adequate replacement.
        
           | beebeepka wrote:
           | > if only I could buy a modern phone without cameras.
           | 
           | It's a travesty these things don't even have shutters. Taping
           | over them works but is very inconvenient. They also tend to
           | stick out of the chassis.
           | 
           | It's boggling my mind they keep adding more cameras. I really
           | have lost almost all touch with the world.
        
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