[HN Gopher] Unexpected benefits of sun exposure on skin
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Unexpected benefits of sun exposure on skin
Author : robaato
Score : 73 points
Date : 2023-10-01 17:56 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| [deleted]
| russellbeattie wrote:
| I've always been skeptical of dermatologist insistence that sun
| exposure is unequivocally bad. It never made sense. If human
| health and lifespan were so negatively affected by sunlight, we
| would all be covered in fur, or everyone would be as dark skinned
| as populations living near the equator.
|
| Like everything else in life, "moderation in all things" is the
| best rule to follow. If you spend your life getting deep dark
| tans or don't take sensible precautions against sunburns, expect
| melanoma. If you avoid sunlight like a cave dweller, expect
| deficiencies in everything from vitamins to mental health.
| avalys wrote:
| No kidding. It seems such an obvious example of industry taking
| a kernel of truth and blowing it out of proportion to promote a
| market for themselves. Yes, sunscreen is beneficial in certain
| situations, but I know some people who slather all their
| exposed skin with chemicals to "protect" from the sun over the
| 5 minutes they spend outside while carrying groceries into the
| house.
| 0134340 wrote:
| Any many of those sunscreens, if not purely mineral-based,
| contain endocrine disruptors that can get absorbed into the
| skin.
| kempfcreative wrote:
| Can you elaborate on this? I am always ridiculed because I
| don't want to put on sunscreen for health reasons but I
| don't remember what the evidence was.
| capableweb wrote:
| Someone else recommended "Neutrogena, Ultra Sheer Dry
| Touch Sunscreen" in this submission, and taking a quick
| look at the ingredients, it does have some I wouldn't put
| on my skin:
|
| - Octocrylene (endocrine disruptive + might cause sun
| allergies)
|
| - Butylated Hydroxytoluene (endocrine disruptive)
|
| - Homosalate (https://health.ec.europa.eu/system/files/20
| 22-08/sccs_o_244....)
| [deleted]
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Interesting. I've never been that worried, my skin doesn't burn
| easily even though I'm very fair-skinned and live in Spain and
| often hike outdoors.
|
| I just hate that SPF stuff on my skin. It makes it sticky and
| makes me feel dirty. Instead I just try to avoid burning. I do
| bring some for when it does start but it almost never does. What
| I do to avoid it works well enough.
|
| What I tend to do is just take the shady side of the road
| wherever possible and for the rest of the time just not worry too
| much unless I really feel I start getting burned. I check that by
| scratching my skin with my nail, once it starts burning it feels
| sharper. Then I'd put on the lotion. And by the time I get home
| my skin will be slightly red but not seriously burned. Which is
| pretty rare because I tend to tan naturally. By the time spring
| starts I already have a light brown shade and it protects me
| during summer. Most of the time I don't even burn at all.
|
| What I do think is bad is someone living in a dark nothern
| country going on holidays for 2 weeks and spending 2 weeks lying
| on the beach in the full mediterranean sun. Sunblock or not. My
| ex used to do that and she got totally burned on the first day
| even with the sunblock and then spent the rest of the weeks
| complaining :) I used to live in such a country and I was always
| more careful during holidays.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| I'll just wear light hoodies and sweat pants if I go fishing
| sometimes my face still gets burned a little because while I
| don't look at the sun much or get much sun directly to by face
| because of my hoodie, the sunlight is also reflected off the
| lake into my face and I often overlook that bit .... I've got a
| full beard so that blocks most burns now but I've had many
| really bad burns when I was young 10 to 16 years old . Now I'm
| 43 and I'm constantly D deficient even on 5000 units daily, if
| I don't supplement I really feel like crap and get sick more
| often.
| atombender wrote:
| There are many sunscreens out there, ranging from greasy and
| sticky, to completely unnoticeable. My go-to sunscreen of
| choice is Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch. It's sold in most
| pharmacies in the U.S. It's lightweight and doesn't feel like
| you have any sunscreen on at all. There's also a mineral
| version, but I've not tried it.
| therealdrag0 wrote:
| I'm also not a fan of the feeling of sunblock. I've learned as
| an adult that long sleeves and a hat go a looong ways.
| gniv wrote:
| Article mentions checking the UV index. FYI, on iphone it is
| shown in the weather app, just need to scroll down a bit.
| ilaksh wrote:
| Is it just full spectrum light or specific UV sections?
|
| I wonder if future building codes will require some type of
| intermittent full spectrum or UV light in certain areas. Maybe in
| a bathroom with a timer that shuts it off a few seconds after
| someone enters.
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| You want UVB and not UVA, but UVB is weaker than UVA so all
| sunblocking type products necessarily enrich your exposure to
| the bad kind.
|
| The time when the ratio of UVB to UVA is highest (best time)
| between 10 am to 2 pm, or when your shadow is not longer than
| your height.
|
| So 20 mins in the sun at noon without sunblock is best, and
| after that if you're pale then slather on the sunscreen.
| reducesuffering wrote:
| The article specifically mentions how nitric oxide is only
| released from UVA activation.
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| Yeah, just read that and I was going to edit my comment.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| Glass blocks most of UVB and a chunk of UVA, so there isn't
| currently a good solution for indoor full spectrum light
| exposure.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| _Normal_ glass blocks most of it. But pure SiO2 fused quartz
| does not. A bit more affordable is probably borosilicate
| glass and I would like to have my windows replaced with them,
| but it is not really sold as a common window. So you can
| probably get one, but it won 't be cheap.
| ilaksh wrote:
| I meant like a type of lighting fixture that gives off full
| spectrum light.
| nu11ptr wrote:
| This is not even remotely surprising to me. I've always been a
| bit skeptical of "the sun is evil" (and got even more skeptical
| when I was told I should wear sunblock inside!) and ensure I get
| 20 minutes full body exposure daily in the summer. Anecdotally, I
| can tell a general difference in my mood and sleep during periods
| where I get adequate sun vs. when I'm not (and I supplement
| vitamin D when I'm not).
|
| While I am a big fan of the scientific method, it is difficult to
| do studies that don't have lots of confounding variables in this
| area, so when in doubt, use common sense is my rule. We evolved
| with the sun, so the most likely probability is we have at least
| some defense to it, and more than likely we evolved so that at
| least some exposure has benefit.
| slashdev wrote:
| Yeah, that's my thinking as well. I also try to get some sun
| exposure. I get too little being an tech worker.
| personjerry wrote:
| I feel like it's known that sun is good for you? But always wear
| sunscreen!
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "But always wear sunscreen!"
|
| Sunscreen is full of pretty active chemicals, so I would not
| recommend using it, when you don't have to.
| graypegg wrote:
| Interesting, the linked paper [0] does show they controlled for
| physical activity here, since I would assume someone who gets
| more sun exposure, is outside more.
|
| If they really have controlled for that factor, shouldn't we see
| similar results from people with sedentary lives, but high UV
| exposure? (possibly by regular use of tanning beds or the like?)
| Being prescribed UV exposure is an interesting idea for the
| future.
|
| [0]
| https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.07.11.23292360v...
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| Related, there were some drugs developed to activate melanin
| production by hooking in to sunlight damage reaponse related
| pathways, and they do work for light-free tanning. But they
| were then found to significantly and meangingfully increase
| libido in men and women, so now there are follow up projects to
| develop these for erectile dysfunction / low libido. (You
| probably haven't heard of these because they're all peptides
| which generally have to be injected without a lot of
| development work and luck, but the shocking success
| ofsemaglutide and friends means maybe injection-only peptide
| lifestyle drugs have a market)
|
| As a general just-so-story rule of thumb to be discounted in
| the face of evidence to the contrary, stimulus or stress that's
| a consequence of doing stuff generally acts as a "growth
| factor" even if it causes slight damage, including exercise,
| heat and cold shock, and sunlight.
| amelius wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanotan_II
| wnoise wrote:
| It's certainly plausible, but there's a lot of confounds.
|
| Broad-spectrum vs tanning.
|
| And outside also gets lower CO2 and VOC.
| DennisP wrote:
| In sunlight you also get lots of red and infrared, and there's
| quite a bit of research on the benefits of that. To replicate
| sunlight you'd also need bulbs for those frequencies.
| InSteady wrote:
| IR light reduces certain types of inflammation, speeds wound
| healing, protects against macular degeneration.. I'm
| surprised there isn't more interest in its benefits given
| what we've found so far.
| qingcharles wrote:
| I feel like they should prescribe sunlight for prisoners. I was
| held for 10 years without seeing the sun, and many jails and
| prisons are built on budgets that don't allow for any sunlight.
| olalonde wrote:
| Do you mean that your cell didn't have sunlight or that you
| literally never went outside? I was watching a documentary on
| ADX Florence, which is known for its maximum-security
| isolation, and prisoners were allowed one hour outside per
| day.
| zolbrek wrote:
| That is rough. Perhaps a very stupid question but did you
| have access to Vitamin D supplementation during that time?
| pkoird wrote:
| N=1 but I've felt that I always sleep better when I've spent an
| hour in the sun that day. Considering how the sun has been a
| constant during much of human evolution, it just makes sense that
| our biological processes, both known and unknown, should revolve
| around it.
| api wrote:
| The obvious thing is that white people are white because they
| lost natural sunscreen living far from the equator. For that to
| have occurred the selection pressure must have been fairly
| strong.
|
| Of course we do know that very heavy sun exposure and
| especially sunburn can cause cancer. It's probably a case of
| moderation being good for you-- not too little and not too
| much.
| Groxx wrote:
| [delayed]
| bawolff wrote:
| I think the big question is does it matter outside of vitamin
| d deficiency.
|
| Severe vit d deficiency obviously is strongly negatively
| selective. So that by itself explains the evolution of white
| skin in northern climates. I dont think evolution can be used
| as evidence for other benefits, since vit d deficiency would
| cause that just by itself.
| tomohelix wrote:
| This is no surprise to me since the UV here is actually sunlight
| related. Lots of co-conditions that affect it too. The paper said
| they adjusted their numbers for socioeconomic factors but still
| probably that adjustment won't be perfect.
|
| Anyway, from all I have learned and done, the best health advice
| that I think applies to most people is moderation is the best.
| Trying too much and too hard on something will just backfire.
| Eating only meat and milk will cause cancer sure, but eating only
| vegetables and beans will also affect your health, namely
| nutritional deficiency. Etc. and etc.
|
| I will just live normally while adjust things within limits and
| enjoy life while it is still good.
| jms wrote:
| I've been living in Australia and New Zealand, and have been
| terrified of sun exposure - during peak times (summer mid-day)
| it's scary how quickly you can burn.
|
| However I also have low vitamin D.
|
| My current strategy is to check the UV levels (I've got a widget
| on my personal dashboard) and whenever the UV levels are moderate
| or below, I try to get as much sun exposure as possible - shorts
| and t-shirt, or topless.
|
| I then cover up when the UV levels are demonstrably high.
|
| My theory is that low levels of exposure are very good - you get
| your vitamin D, whatever else you need, and your body starts to
| build an appropriate amount of melanin.
|
| The worst thing to do is to avoid sun all the time, then suddenly
| get massive UV doses.
|
| I've noticed that my hands very rarely get burned compared to
| other areas - my theory is due to constant exposure that part of
| my body is more resistant compared to the pasty areas.
|
| My key point is that you can view the UV rating and protect
| yourself appropriately - e.g. high caution summer-midday, zero
| caution winter mid-day.
| bostonvaulter2 wrote:
| Where do you get the UV data from?
| torstenvl wrote:
| > _Vitamin D is manufactured in our bodies when the UVB rays in
| sunlight react with a chemical in the skin called
| 7-dehydrocholesterol. Bone and muscle cells use it to regulate
| levels of calcium and phosphorus, which are needed to keep them
| strong and healthy_
|
| If you are at all active over age 30 -- by which I mean you EVER
| run, jump, or otherwise put pressure on your spine -- you need to
| get lots of sunlight.
|
| Most people have insufficient if not downright deficient levels
| of vitamin D. Spondylolysis and eventual spondylolisthesis is not
| a prognosis you want for your back.
| olivermuty wrote:
| Most western diets gets more than enough d-vitamin through food
| additives. Just a couple of slices of cheese per day and some
| milk is all the d-vit you need here apparently.
|
| The old folk saying is to take d-vitamin supplements in all
| months that has an R in them. Probably sound advice
| throwaway87651 wrote:
| "Probably sound advice" ... unless you're in the southern
| hemisphere!
| smdyc1 wrote:
| Unless you're living in the southern hemisphere, sure
| [deleted]
| ramblenode wrote:
| > Most western diets gets more than enough d-vitamin through
| food additives.
|
| This is just wrong.
|
| Per capita vitamin D defficiency and insufficiency in the US
| are estimated at about 30% and 40%, respectively [0] compared
| to about 50% insufficiency worldwide [1].
|
| Lack of exposure to sunlight is a major predictor of vitamin
| D insufficiency, even in western countries [1]. Sunlight
| produces more bioavailable vitamin D than dietary sources,
| and the recommended daily vitamin D can easily be obtained
| from sunlight alone, while it is hard to obtain from diet
| alone.
|
| > Just a couple of slices of cheese per day and some milk is
| all the d-vit you need here apparently.
|
| Daily intake of cheese [2] and milk [3] fortified with
| vitamin D at the recommended daily value is insufficient to
| make up for a lack of sun exposure.
|
| [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29644951/
|
| [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3356951/
|
| [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15956292/
|
| [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20460232/
| amelius wrote:
| Don't forget to take vit K2 too, to get that calcium into
| your bones instead of your arteries.
| sega_sai wrote:
| I was about to believe the results as they caution that it's only
| showing the benefits for northern countries like UK and they
| control for exercise, but then I saw in the paper that they
| characterize 'sun-seeking behaviour' variable through 'how many
| times a year would you use a solarium or sunlamp?'. I think
| people who use solariums is a very special category of people,
| and I am not sure one can extrapolate from that group to people
| who enjoy the Sun.
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| I agree. Despite the "more active" category being anyone who
| answered that they would use a solarium even once per year,
| they're still only 6% of the study population if I did the math
| right (see Table 1 on page 10). It also seems noteworthy that
| the study cited for that correlation was primarily
| investigating the factors driving use of tanning beds, not sun
| exposure.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| They asked about solarium use, outdoor sun in winter, and
| summer and various other questions. All showed lower hazard
| ratio. See table 2 in the 2014Lindquist study.
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