[HN Gopher] MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homele...
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MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge
their phones
Author : gjvc
Score : 167 points
Date : 2023-10-01 12:24 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.dezeen.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.dezeen.com)
| EdSchouten wrote:
| What's the advantage of using those bicycles, as opposed to just
| having a crank on it? Pedaling a bicycle backwards isn't really
| ergonomic.
| helpfulContrib wrote:
| Bicycles are among the most efficient energy conversion systems
| human-kind has ever invented .. the difference between a single
| lever (which, after all, is still an option with the existing
| design) and a bicycle lever/gear system, means all the
| difference in the world when the calories are, already, a
| regular daily concern for the target user.
|
| Plus, it gives the bikes utility when they're not being rented,
| since the rental bays often take up space in areas accessible
| to the homeless, its also quite convenient for the target
| users.
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| This doesn't use the gear system though. (aside from the
| large front sprocket driving the smaller one on the device)
|
| I'm quite surprised it can be built for PS3, unless the
| battery is incredibly small.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| That cost would be at a volume no one would ever produce
| this at.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| Well, the volume could possibly exist if it weren't
| limited to one city, or one model of bike.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| No, it couldn't. This is all very dumb, it's a fantasy
| product with no effective use targeting a population that
| didn't ask or want it, done so that everyone can say it's
| great which makes them feel like they are good people.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| Yes the specific object is dumb, both because it's design
| has holes, and because there are better ways to get it's
| ultimate function.
|
| But the market for something like that is not limited to
| the exact specific population of homeless in London. A
| thing like that could be produced in the volume necessary
| to get economy of scale, simply by not being limited to
| one city and a single particular model of bike, or even
| limited to the homeless for that matter.
|
| If you don't understand that, then you are in a poor
| position from which to call anyone else dumb.
| helpfulContrib wrote:
| I believe there is also a social element to this, as it is
| rather an unfortunately overlooked detail that bike-rental
| bays are often installed by businesses throughout
| metropolitan regions _as a means_ of discouraging the
| homeless, who cannot afford to use these devices, which
| storage after all consumes public space .. giving the
| homeless a way to extract value from things is, in my
| opinion, an admirably placed bit of design altruism, and I,
| for one, hope to see many more examples of this kind of
| thinking.
|
| I have often wondered what sort of conversion it would take
| to use an AK47 and a box of ammo to drill a well/pump
| water, instead of suppress human beings.. transformative
| technology is highly interesting, don't you agree?
|
| >I'm quite surprised it can be built for PS3, unless the
| battery is incredibly small.
|
| Herein lies the rub - can the homeless build these things
| for PS1 a piece, somewhere in London?
|
| Because if the answer is more oil-based traffic across the
| worlds oceans to get these things made, I'm afraid the
| irony of the builder/user distinction is rather
| unfortunate...
| londons_explore wrote:
| Regular humans can put out ~100 watts on a dual foot crank
| (like a bicycle) for hours. Since a phone battery is ~12 Watt-
| hours, you can collect energy for a full phone charge in ~10
| mins (but you'll need a special buffer battery, since few
| lithium cells can charge that fast).
|
| Yet on a single hand crank, even 20 watts and you'll get tired
| pretty quick.
|
| Part of that is that leg muscles are bigger. Part of it is that
| you're used to walking or standing for long periods of time.
| Part of it is that with a dual crank you aren't putting useless
| effort into holding the device up and holding the weight of
| your own arms up.
|
| End result: Hand cranks are useless unless you only need tiny
| amounts of energy out of a human.
| bee_rider wrote:
| It looks like the device even includes a little battery; I
| wonder if it holds enough charge to charge a phone battery
| fully, or if it just needs to be active charged for a while.
|
| This is definitely more about the message, but actually, if a
| person could pedal pretty hard for like a half hour and get a
| couple charges out of it, that doesn't see too impractical
| (ignoring the obvious objections, like usually coffee shops
| will let you get a little charge).
|
| It could be a nice camping accessory. I bet a product already
| exists.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Such a product does already exist (with a hand crank).
|
| The buffer battery is needed because phones generally don't
| like having variable voltage/current to charge from. They
| normally choose what speed they wish to charge at
| (depending on charger type), and if they can't draw their
| desired current and the voltage drops then they stop
| charging entirely.
|
| Also, humans generally expect a crank to have constant
| torque. Whereas if you wanted constant charge _power_ ,
| then the faster you crank the easier it gets, and
| conversely the slower you go the stiffer it gets, which is
| very unintuitive.
|
| By using a buffer battery, you can solve both problems. And
| users can choose to crank faster to charge the buffer
| quicker, which is what humans expect.
| EdSchouten wrote:
| I don't doubt you can generate ~100 watts cycling forward for
| hours. But the approach this system uses is that you need to
| cycle backwards. As far as I know, that's pretty annoying way
| to move your legs.
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| This is an art/design project by an undergraduate student - not
| necessarily a serious product. But I wonder if cycling
| backwards is still easier than using a hand crank
| londons_explore wrote:
| I made a bidirectional pedalling exercise bike. Turns out
| there isn't much difference between forwards and backwards,
| but you do need to adjust the seat back by about 6 inches if
| you want maximal power output for backwards pedalling.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| Using a hand crank for 30 minutes? Nah... pedaling will
| definitely be easier.
| bluescrn wrote:
| This seems about the most ridiculous way possible for a homeless
| person to charge a phone.
|
| If phone charging is really something that's been overlooked by
| the many organisations trying to help the homeless already, it's
| just a matter of providing a space with mains power and a few
| chargers - maybe homeless shelters, churches, or community
| centres, and letting people know where+when this is available.
|
| But I'd imagine that this is already a thing, and there's not
| really a need for silly contraptions?
|
| (Then try to draw attention to the problem of phones with non-
| user-replaceable batteries, as the world has a vast supply of
| inexpensive older phones, but they're no use to anybody if the
| battery doesn't hold a charge...)
| version_five wrote:
| I have an emergency radio with crank for power outages. I know it
| probably takes a lot of cranking to charge a phone, but I think
| that would reduce complexity and make it more universal than
| having to occupy a specific kind of bike sharing bike
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| you'd be cranking for two days straight to charge up your
| phone.
| serpix wrote:
| A wall socket can be found just about anywhere, if you really
| need power quick there are fast charging powerbanks.
| vidarh wrote:
| From the article:
|
| "While most homeless people own a phone, Talbot conducted
| interviews with people sleeping rough across London and found
| that many struggle with finding a place where they can actually
| charge the device."
|
| So apparently at least part of the homeless disagree with you.
| helpfulContrib wrote:
| Homelessness is a serious subject, especially in a city like
| London. The assumption that the homeless masses all have access
| to a powerbank, or a wall socket in one of the cities most
| notorious for class boundaries, is rather coarse.. perhaps you
| might at least think of it as more of a survival device for
| those who are using their bicycles to get far, far away from
| the grid ..
| arp242 wrote:
| [flagged]
| dmw_ng wrote:
| Plenty of locations that used to be BT phone boxes were
| replaced with pillars featuring WiFi and USB charging. Is
| this not pretty widespread?
|
| This device seems a bit.. daft. Renting a Santander cycle
| costs 1.65 GBP. Add the high energy food required to
| supplement your diet after a 30 minute ride and this is
| looking closer to 3 or 4 quid for a phone charge, and that's
| before considering where the homeless person is going to
| securely stow their belongings while cycling. Luggage storage
| in Victoria is 5 GBP for 3 hours..
| jebarker wrote:
| You don't have to pay to rent the bike. The homeless person
| attaches the devices and then peddles on it stationary in
| the dock.
| SgtBaker wrote:
| Most places that are available to you and me aren't necessarily
| available to homeless people and some modern cities are getting
| more and more hostile architecture built to make life harder
| for homeless people.
|
| It might be a niche thing (it's a gradschool project after
| all), but it's pretty cool way to exploit things that are not
| supposed to be available for use.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| It is illegal to use a socket without permission and there
| aren't that many sockets accessible outdoor.
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| "So how did you end up here in prison?"
|
| "I was charging my phone :("
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| The fact is that this is an offence [1]
|
| It does not help homeless people or anyone to suggest they
| should break the law.
|
| This device that uses bike chains is a bit cheeky but it is
| a smart idea and it should be legal, or at least not a
| crime (ianal). So nice, clever hack.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstracting_electricity
| op00to wrote:
| I for one live in fear of the storm trooper squads that come
| after you plug your charger into an unattended wall socket.
|
| In my major Northeast US city, there are wall sockets on the
| outside of most buildings (if you know where to look), on
| every car of the subway/bus, in public concourses, etc.
| snvzz wrote:
| Yet, Isn't using them w/o permission illegal?
| fullspectrumdev wrote:
| Not my experience in London tbh. It's hard to find a power
| outlet somewhere that you don't need to pay some sum of money
| to spend time in. Which makes it a problem for the homeless.
| dewey wrote:
| Feels like the better solution would be to add public charging
| outlets (Fast food restaurants, malls,...) to OSM or some app
| showing them. Would also be a lot faster than paddling around and
| sweating.
| op00to wrote:
| Or you can do what NYC did and (sell the right to) put USB
| charging ports on every other block or so. In that case, you just
| have to source USB condoms instead of a whole rigamarole
| involving pedaling and stuff.
| asadhaider wrote:
| They converted a lot of telephone booths to kiosks which have
| free chargers built in and usually also free wifi, calls, and
| defibs.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/bt-ad...
| (old article, they're in a lot of major cities now and have
| been for a long time)
| op00to wrote:
| I think they're pretty cool. Privacy issues are important,
| but access is also important! It feels like the future. Like
| drinking fountains for information.
| NovemberWhiskey wrote:
| For those who don't have context on this:
|
| https://www.link.nyc/home.html
|
| It's not just USB charging, it's also pretty fast wifi.
| dazc wrote:
| Most homeless people in the UK will be aware that they can charge
| phones in any public library.
|
| Also, most will have access to some kind of facility where they
| can also do stuff such as charge phones, have a shower and do
| laundry.
|
| If you present to the local authority as homeless you will
| usually be directed to a local charity that has these facilities.
| You will, likely, stay homeless but there is some basic help out
| there.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > Most homeless people in the UK will be aware that they can
| charge phones in any public library. ..have access to some kind
| of facility to charge phones, have a shower and do laundry.
|
| You describe a different universe from US homelessness. Here
| there might be a tiny bit of religious outreach but the public
| (therefor public services) tends to lean toward hostility.
| demandingturtle wrote:
| [dead]
| onthecanposting wrote:
| Homeless I've encountered are usually well fed and clothed
| and they always have cell phones. This includes the
| registered sex offenders with face tattoos.
| dazc wrote:
| Sorry to hear that.
| bunabhucan wrote:
| I volunteer with homeless youth. A solar power bank with a light
| is $20 and a person experiencing homelessness can have it
| delivered to an Amazon locker. What this idea misses is that
| people experiencing homelessness are frequently time starved just
| trying to hustle in their day - getting to a minimum wage job
| without a car and the like.
| tiahura wrote:
| [flagged]
| circuit10 wrote:
| These are people with a life and feelings and needs just as
| much as you. If you were in a rough situation and needed some
| help, how would it feel to have people dehumanise you with
| comments like this as if you're some sort of pest and just want
| you to go away somewhere else instead of helping?
| gruez wrote:
| All of this is easy to say when you're personally not
| affected by them.
| circuit10 wrote:
| But is that really a good enough reason to dehumanise
| people? Because them existing annoys you?
| dmbche wrote:
| How do "they" affect you, poor soul?
| mcpackieh wrote:
| Hours of blood-curdling screaming in the middle of the
| night, waking up people who are trying to get sleep
| before going to work. But I can tell from your tone that
| you've already decided you don't care about anything the
| homeless might do to other people.
| [deleted]
| NotYourLawyer wrote:
| They shit and piss on the sidewalk. They yell profanities
| at people walking by. The (occasionally at least) assault
| people.
|
| How do they _not_ affect you?
| helpfulContrib wrote:
| Maybe the strategy should be more to incentivize people to live
| more safely and comfortably in nature and less in their boxes
| of inordinate consumption.
|
| Homelessness could become a good thing, if we get our tech
| right.
|
| (Disclaimer: Tree-hugging hippy who believes we should be
| dropping Kelly Kettles, not bombs..)
| sp332 wrote:
| Average rent in London is over $2,000 per month. You don't have
| to be a bum to be homeless.
| jebarker wrote:
| and median income in London appears to be ~41K GBP, so that
| rent would be about 80% of the income. No wonder there's lots
| of homelessness.
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| If you can't buy boots, you can just buy the laces, so
| there's no excuse to avoid pulling yourself up by your
| bootstraps #sarcasm
| Sakos wrote:
| Yes, the solution must be to redirect homeless elsewhere so
| they're no longer your problem, instead of actually helping
| people.
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| Are there no libraries or homeless shelters where they could
| charge either a phone or a power bank?
|
| This seems more like an art project than a practical solution.
| fullspectrumdev wrote:
| Shelters in the UK have a pretty bad rap in some cities
| (including London) among the homeless.
|
| Also yes, it's an art project by an art student at CSM (an art
| college).
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| I understand why people don't want to stay there, but
| shelters could also provide "walk-in" services like swapping
| an empty power bank for a full one.
| fullspectrumdev wrote:
| They could and/or should, but many shelters basically are
| night shelter only - you get kicked out in the morning.
|
| There's nowhere near enough drop in daytime places to
| charge a phone or access internet or get help with
| paperwork, etc.
|
| there also a shortage of places that will let you open a
| mailbox/use the address to get postage.
|
| You would be amazed at how much difference it makes being
| able to receive a letter at an address - it's vital for a
| lot of services still.
| afavour wrote:
| It's definitely more of an attention grab than practical
| solution. Doesn't invalidate it though.
| angrygoat wrote:
| Yes, at least here in Australia there are a lot of libraries,
| churches and other public places where charging is available.
| Rather than expecting those without homes to pedal for basic
| access to services, access to basic infrastructure like
| charging should be expanded - and dare I say, be bold and
| actually make housing available to all people.
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| Having to stay there while charging would still be a hurdle.
| Do they typically offer e.g. code-locked charging cabinets
| where you can leave a phone or power bank, or power bank
| swaps where they would lend (or give) away standardized power
| banks that could then be exchanged for full ones when empty?
| groone wrote:
| I think they would rather leave some USB port available than let
| you wear down their chains
| uoaei wrote:
| Considering there's negligible tension on the chain when
| pedalling backwards it's not really going to have much of an
| effect. And the added gear ("jockey/pulley wheel") is plastic.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| More likely that they'll upgrade the bikes to lock the
| chain/pedals if this becomes a problem.
| khaki54 wrote:
| There is approx zero chance that you can get a homeless person to
| do labor for 20 minutes, let alone the 2-5 hours this would
| actually take. By and large homeless are in such despair that
| they won't invest in activities that will benefit them in the
| future.
|
| If by some miracle this actually took off and all the bikes were
| now in use by homeless, non-paying customers, bike rental
| companies would implement blocking measures so they could
| actually get revenue.
|
| If the author used his resources and energy deliberately to get
| even a single homeless person back on track through conventional
| means, it would have a better impact on the world than this which
| is probably a net negative, all things considered.
| kingTug wrote:
| In America, about half of the homeless population is employed.
| "Homeless won't do labor" is a common misnomer.
| dazc wrote:
| I think you have a limited of view of what being homeless is
| actually like? Walking around 30 miles a day (because there is
| nothing else to do and, sometimes, you may otherwise freeze to
| death) with your belongings in a backpack isn't exactly easy.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > There is approx zero chance that you can get a homeless
| person to do labor for 20 minutes, let alone the 2-5 hours this
| would actually take.
|
| And yet homeless people do labor. In fact routine living often
| requires much, much, much more labor when homeless, than when
| housed.
|
| They even have jobs. I worked when I was homeless (but was
| fired when they found out). That was long ago. Since then it's
| more difficult to find work; job portals erased most job
| opportunities. Of the few folks willing to give you work, you
| have a segment who take advantage and act in bad faith.
| Eumenes wrote:
| homeless have iphones?
| fullspectrumdev wrote:
| Yes.
|
| Just because you become homeless, doesn't mean you lose every
| single item you own.
|
| A phone is one of the more useful/valuable possessions for a
| homeless person - you need some kind of internet/telephone
| device to engage with the services that can help you, for
| navigation, etc etc
| tgdnt wrote:
| This has to be a joke.
| spaintech wrote:
| While I applaud the intent to bring the issue of homelessness to
| the forefront of the media, I feel like this project is more
| about gaining self attention for the project rather than solving
| the issue all together. The ~20GBP for the 18650 or 27500
| batteries, the probably ~5GBP of the PCB needed, ~15GBP for the
| chain hardware and magnets, you are looking for a >40GBP to put
| this together, you can today get a <10GBP USB hand crank, and you
| don't have to use the words "hack" and name "Santander" on your
| blog. I'f there was intent, then a volume buy, with a go-fund-me
| campaign, you can get them hand cranks for <2GBP in volume, and
| it would have had a real impact... I hate it when serious matters
| are used just to draw attention to one self, IMHO.
| tomstuart wrote:
| It's a student project, so the primary intent is to do the work
| necessary to graduate.
| fullspectrumdev wrote:
| It's from CSM, a fairly well regarded art college, so you are
| right on the money.
|
| You see a lot of interesting projects like this come from art
| colleges - technically quite neat, with a "social message" or
| theme, but usually not going to translate well to the real
| world.
|
| That being said. I could see myself actually using something
| like this in a pinch.
| watwut wrote:
| Which I think is 100% ok for art or tech school or project.
| They are not supposed to be experts in social help,
| sociology or whatever. They kinda lack training for that.
| The are supposed to show practical skills and come up with
| an idea of a project that would demonstrate them.
| tmpX7dMeXU wrote:
| Computer people have the biggest case of "everything looks like
| a nail".
| dom96 wrote:
| I don't see it as self promotion. Also regarding hand cranking:
| pedalling is almost surely far less strenuous and more
| efficient
| forgotusername6 wrote:
| In the article it says he hopes to manufacture it for PS3. Not
| sure whether that price is realistic.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| You may be right. Others in this thread mention he's a
| student. Learning about manufacturing costs should be well
| worth the time spent.
| Kye wrote:
| This is the same mistake the OLPC people made. When you're
| broke and struggling to feed yourself, you aren't going to
| waste precious calories cranking to charge a battery. You're
| going to bum enough off someone to have a calorie-rich drink
| while you charge in a coffee shop or find a public outlet you
| can sneak some juice off of.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| I met a number of people involved in OLPC and every single
| one of them was an insufferably smug tool with a massive
| white-savior complex. Kids in Africa didn't need a hand-
| crankable laptop. They needed clean water to survive infancy,
| light to be able to study by, and to not be captured and
| turned into soldiers.
| mcpackieh wrote:
| > _USB hand crank_
|
| Are any of those actually effective for charging a phone? I
| used to have a hand cranked radio, but radios built for this
| only need a minuscule amount of power. Does anybody have real
| experience using one of these to charge a phone? How long does
| it take?
| nimos wrote:
| iPhones charge at 20watts. Doing that sustained by hand is
| probably fairly tiring but would be trivial wattage for say
| biking. From my experience the hand crank radio's would be
| pretty futile for charging a phone. There are some charging
| specific devices out there that can generate decent power.
|
| https://www.amazon.ca/Powerhouse-Watt-Hand-Crank-
| Generator-Q...
| rzzzt wrote:
| There was a video a few years ago in which a professional
| cyclist is connected to a generator (bike included) and
| their continuous power output was around 100 W which they
| could maintain for a few hours. But it would be
| unreasonable to expect this amount of exertion from an
| untrained person.
|
| Edit: weeeelll. I'm either thinking of a different one or
| completely messed up the numbers and duration:
| https://youtu.be/S4O5voOCqAQ
| snovv_crash wrote:
| Yeah, pro cyclists can put out 400W for an hour. The 20W
| it takes to charge a phone is less effort than walking,
| it's honestly the bare minimum a grandma puts into a bike
| to get it to roll down the road.
| nimos wrote:
| Assuming my exercise bike wattage is accurate I think
| most decently fit people could average 100 watts for an
| hour with a bit of sweating but not like, full on
| panting. 20 watts is low enough that it's awkward to
| generate that little power in terms of speed/resistance.
| keep_reading wrote:
| I have an emergency radio / USB-C battery combo thing with
| like 5000mah and the math on the hand crank says I'd have to
| crank it continuously for like 48 hours to charge it. It's
| completely useless. I'd die from exertion just trying to
| charge it if I was stranded.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| 5000mAh battery at 3.7V nominal has roughly 18-20Wh of
| juice. Your crank would only be putting out 400mW of power
| if it truly took 48 hours to charge.
|
| Internet seems to think most hand cranks can output
| somewhere between 5-15W, which would mean you'd only take
| 1.3-4 hours to fully charge said pack. Plenty of juice in
| an emergency situation, and certainly plenty for a phone
| call or something. Maybe that's a big giant crank thing
| though, and the tiny plastic crap ones only put out the
| wattage you're talking about though.
| kmeisthax wrote:
| You don't need to crank the whole 5000mAh, you just need to
| crank _enough_ for your phone to get a phone call or two
| out, and that 's assuming the battery wasn't already
| charged prior.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| I mean, sure, the person you replied to wouldn't but if
| this was your primary method of charging your device, as
| the original comment suggested, then you _would_ need to
| crank the whole 5000mAh. Multiple times, since I assume
| you'll want your phone charged more than twice.
| thefurdrake wrote:
| I see a lot of people who are down on this. I read the comments
| before the article, which was perhaps a mistake, because I went
| into the article thinking this was a lot less clever than it
| actually is.
|
| This is neat. This may not be The Most Practical Solution, but
| the idea of having a thing that you can carry around and turn
| local bikes into power generation seems like a perfectly-
| reasonable invention for me.
|
| We're talking about helping the homeless. They don't need the
| minmaxxed optimal solution. Not every homeless person may have
| access to a power outlet-- I don't know who wouldn't be able to
| move enough to pedal a bike but not enough to get to a public
| library, but that's really /not the point/. There are a lot of
| reasons that people end up homeless, and they can cause some
| really spotty/unreliable behavior.
|
| There's nothing wrong with adding ideas/solutions to the mix.
| There's no need for a concept like this to replace other
| solutions. We can use all the viable solutions at the same time.
| jimrandomh wrote:
| This is interesting as a gimmick, but it seems wildly impractical
| compared to charging a power bank from an A/C outlet in a public
| place. I expect most homeless people would rather have a power
| bank that's larger or cheaper than one that can charge from bike
| pedal power.
| netsharc wrote:
| Man, when I saw "hack" I thought the Santander bikes are e-bikes,
| and the hack would be a device that leeches power off their
| batteries...
| op00to wrote:
| Same! Like, the bikes are charging via some inductive method,
| and the battery sucks off that. That'd be cool as hell!
| doublesocket wrote:
| They have some sort of battery that powers the lights. I
| wonder if the dock also charges those?
| chedabob wrote:
| They're powered by a dynamo, so probably only have the
| tiniest of batteries or capacitors necessary to keep the
| low-power lights on when not moving.
| kioleanu wrote:
| Nope just a fancier dynamo
| Frankmartin321 wrote:
| [dead]
| londons_explore wrote:
| Nice prototype, but it doesn't actually work does it?
|
| Turns out that to transfer any significant torque (and therefore
| energy), you need either a larger gear, or a larger subtended
| angle, or a higher chain tension - and ideally all three.
|
| Since this device has none of those, I can be pretty confident
| that even after hours of pedalling, you won't have a charged
| phone. In fact, the video even shows the chain jumping showing
| that the generator gear isn't turning.
| ecshafer wrote:
| That seems like par for the course in this day and age. A nice
| sentiment and idea, but it doesnt actually work. But that
| doesn't stop it from going on the cv and a small marketing push
| about it.
| Groxx wrote:
| Probably also can't use magnets that can slide along the axis
| of power transfer... there's no way this works as designed.
|
| I do like the base idea of "why not just use the machines that
| are already idle everywhere" though.
| diydsp wrote:
| Your comments about the gear size, etc. are interesting, but I
| don't see how they're strictly necessary. Can you explain? For
| example, can't an arbitrarily small gear work as long as the
| force contributing to the torque is sufficient? And isn't the
| force a product of the driving force (human leg/crank) and the
| load on the generator? And we can't see the load on the
| generator, so there may well be step-up gearing and high-flux
| motor inside the housing?
|
| BTW, I respect your project at
| https://omattos.com/2022/06/19/gym-power.html
|
| I have also worked with human-powered generators
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huYJa2Du57g) and made a quick
| feasibility spreadsheet on the MyPowerbank at:
| https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X39ZgL86tmemdYv0r1Jg...
|
| From my spreadsheet, this project looks plausible, but please
| feel free to add comments to it as you see fit.
|
| My spreadsheet's calcs indicate an average power of about 25
| Watts to reach the 25 minute charging time claim. Note that
| average humans can easily sustain 100 Watts. I have assumed an
| iPhone 12 battery as that's the first that came up when I
| searched:
| https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ihpone+...
|
| As far as the shaking chain, note also that the device base is
| shaking so we can not directly infer the cog idler pulley-cum-
| prime-mover is not also moving.
|
| In my experience with human-powered generators, the real
| obstacle was getting people to relax and focus and do nothing
| for longer than 2 minutes.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Homeless people are known for having so much free time and energy
| that an hour of pedalling is a better solution than the two cents
| of wall power needed to charge things while they sit and
| correspond with potential employers, deal with paperwork, pay
| bills, figure out their kid's school plans, and working out how
| to keep their healthcare without a full address.
|
| I dunno... this "idea" feels so ignorant that it's basically
| offensive.
| gnsdrths wrote:
| I'm American so as ignorant as I'm sure this sounds... Are the
| people who become homeless in London doing so for significantly
| different reasons than over here? Because most of the homeless
| in my city (a fairly large California coastal) aren't
| significantly engaged in any of the things you're alluding to
| and frankly would probably be happier with a bike that charged
| their phones since the ones who aren't just living in tents
| outside the 'clinic' typically roam the tourist districts to
| pan handle. The main issue I imagine that might be inconvenient
| for them is the ease of theft.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I'm not sure of the demographics in your region but are you
| sure your perception of homelessness is correct? Or is it
| just a bias where you only see the ones who aren't busy
| trying to dig out?
| gnsdrths wrote:
| Most of the homeless in my city migrated here from outside
| of the city (and often State) to come here for our weather,
| services, and lax attitude towards drug use as far as
| demographics go. We're a navy town so there's also a tragic
| sub-group of veterans with mental health issues but the
| bulk of our homeless (we actually use the term "transient"
| as side context) don't fall into this category and mainly
| came here for the conveniences. I'm sure there are some who
| are trying to "dig out" as you say but it's certainly not
| most of them and for the ones who aren't trying to do so a
| bike with charging capabilities would be both a mobility
| boost (again assuming theft wasn't a concern) and a general
| utility boost (smartphones are largely ubiquitous amongst
| our homeless and are actually extremely valuable as tools
| since they're both navigation aids and access points for
| online services offered to them in my city). This is why I
| was asking what the demographics of the homeless in London
| are like since if they resemble our population then the
| bike wouldn't be such a terrible idea (but I'm also still
| unsure about the practicality since while some of our
| homeless ride bikes most get around via public transit and
| so just putting chargers on busses would probably be more
| pragmatic as a service to them).
| gilleain wrote:
| I don't know the demographic breakdown of London
| homelessness, but I do walk around the city (of
| Westminster) a lot and have read the Big Issue a fair
| bit. There are all sorts of reasons to be homeless in
| London, including (in no particular order):
|
| * Drug/alcohol problems * Domestic abuse * Prison *
| Mental problems * Financial disaster
|
| Obviously there is overlap between these, and some can
| cause the others. Also note that being 'homeless' does
| not just include literally sleeping on the streets (as
| many do) but also staying in temporary hostels, couch-
| surfing, and so on.
|
| London is not the sort of climate that it is comfortable
| to sleep outside, even in a tent. It is difficult to
| imagine many people that would be 'transient' on the
| street given any alternative options. Of course it is
| possible, and there are long-term homeless people who
| might even plausibly enjoy some of the benefits of the
| 'freedom to live under a bridge', but I _suspect_ the
| majority are in a very bad place and want to get out of
| it.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Every aspect of your statement is false and you can't
| have gained this understanding from speaking to actual
| homeless people in California. California homeless are
| from their local area and they just ran out of money.
| This has been demonstrated over and over again. For
| example, of Alameda County's 10k homeless individuals,
| 82% were living in Alameda County before they became
| homeless and 96% were living in California at that time.
| They don't come to our county for the services, because
| there aren't any. The idea that homeless people migrate
| around to find good weather and free stuff is just
| propaganda. No significant subpopulation of homeless
| people does that.
| denton-scratch wrote:
| None of the homeless people in my town seem to be from
| here. They don't speak with the local accent; they speak
| with the generic London "druggie" accent. (The local
| accent is quite easy to recognize)
|
| This is a nicer town than London, generally; at least, it
| is in the centre, where the homeless people concentrate.
| The police seem very tolerant of homeless tent-dwellers.
| There was a small encampment around the corner from where
| I live, camped directly outside the courthouse and
| opposite the police station (!), for about two months. I
| found them rather intimidating - they were very shouty.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| The statistics I've seen (on California[1]) suggest that
| homeless folks are generally locals, not migrants? But I
| agree that just providing some usb ports on public
| transit (likely also in stations or at stops) would be a
| low-cost/high-benefit approach. For human-powered
| approaches, I will say that old OLPC hand crank was a
| good design, since it clamped to a table or railing,
| which allowed for clever 'hacks' like hoisting a bucket
| or water bottle and letting the weight coming down turn
| the shaft [2]. Still less practical than just plugging
| in, to be fair.
|
| 1:
| https://californiahealthline.org/news/article/california-
| hom...
|
| 2: http://www.olpcnews.com/hardware/power_supply/two_awes
| ome_ex...
| mulmen wrote:
| I would love to see a USB port that can withstand public
| transit use. Just as a design exercise that would be
| fascinating.
| tmpX7dMeXU wrote:
| I'm all but certain that this says a lot more about
| perception than the actual attributes of people sleeping
| rough in your area.
| exabrial wrote:
| I'm all but certain you're certain you're incorrect.
|
| I would invite you to do a ride along with your local
| police, local EMS / Fire Rescue if allowed, to develop a
| more informed opinion, as they spend a significant amount
| of time interacting with the homeless population.
| enragedcacti wrote:
| Have you considered that people who are called
| specifically to emergency situations might not have the
| most representative sampling?
| [deleted]
| vidarh wrote:
| Note that the person who made this actually interviewed
| homeless people about whether or not this was a problem
| beforehand. Whether that extended to running the idea past them
| to see if they thought it was helpful as well, I don't know,
| but that he even bothered to listen in the first place makes it
| stand out.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| As someone who is homeless, I agree. This is a solution looking
| for a problem.
|
| Most people do not know how easy it is to access a power source
| in most towns and cities.
| GaryNumanVevo wrote:
| not to mention, making someone who's probably food insecure
| spend calories pedaling to make 2 cents of power is pretty
| bleak
| op00to wrote:
| "Hey, person discarded from society! We don't think you're
| worth housing, or having reliable access to electricity.
| Instead, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and pedal your way
| to being a participant in the rat race!"
| karmakaze wrote:
| TL;DR theory of operation
|
| > Talbot's product takes advantage of the fact that, without
| having to pay to take out one of these bikes, their chain will
| still move when pedalling backwards. This can power up the tiny
| pedal-powered generator contained in the portable charger.
|
| The electricity generated in the process is then stored in
| MyPowerbank's internal batteries, with around 25 minutes of
| pedalling equating to one full phone charge.
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