[HN Gopher] Vergil's secret message
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       Vergil's secret message
        
       Author : diodorus
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2023-09-30 19:16 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (aeon.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (aeon.co)
        
       | red_admiral wrote:
       | There was (and still is) a whole subfield of scholars trying to
       | find hidden messages in Shakespeare's works. Most of them are
       | cranks. At some point though, Claude Shannon, the father of
       | Information Theory, looked at these claims and suggested an
       | empirical test: does the claimed hidden message contain text well
       | beyond the point of uniqueness (I think it was originally called
       | the unicity point)?
       | 
       | For example, suppose you stumble across the symbols
       | NEZNIVEHZDHRPNABGEBVNRDHVCEVZHFNOBEVF. Someone tells you that it
       | in fact contains a secret message in ROT13, namely the opening
       | line of Vergil's Aeneid. Should you believe them or are they
       | overfitting?
       | 
       | In this case, it turns out that no system of roughly the same
       | complexity as ROT13 (and that includes any of the 26! examples of
       | 1:1 mappings of the letters) produces anything close to this good
       | a match, so the explanation "this is ROT13" accounts for much
       | more than you would expect by chance. For the same reason, in the
       | linked article the acrostic NIKANDROS in a poem by someone of
       | that name (at least when rendered in Greek) looks too good to be
       | a coincidence.
       | 
       | On the other hand, suppose you encounter the word SXLL and
       | someone tells you that it's the encoding of the word BLUE with a
       | Vigenere square (basically A=0, B=1 etc. modulo 26) and the key
       | RMRH. The math works out, but there are as many degrees of
       | freedom in the key as there are in the supposed codeword (this is
       | a one-time pad, for cryptographers) so you could equally well say
       | that SXLL is an encoding of STOP with the key AEXW. This claim
       | does not pass the point of uniqueness (which for the true one-
       | time pad diverges to infinity of course, that's the point!).
       | 
       | By this technique, most claims of secret messages in Shakespeare
       | fall because there's other, equally complex systems that turn up
       | equally plausible different messages.
       | 
       | In a work the size of Vergil's (or Shakespeare's), you are bound
       | to find some supposed acrostics by chance alone, especially if
       | you allow yourself some degrees of freedom (like skipping the
       | occasional line). My question for the claimed Isaiah one is
       | whether this one is really past the point of uniqueness,
       | something so unlikely under the null hypothesis of coincidence
       | that we can be sure it's an actual "easter egg" hidden here. Of
       | course, the fact that ISAIAH SAYS is on-topic for the plot here
       | is Bayesian evidence in favour of it being real.
        
         | drittich wrote:
         | That's really interesting. To me, an idea like that alone would
         | have been enough to make Claude Shannon memorable.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | He did cooler things than inventing information theory.
           | 
           | He also invented the first juggling robot.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggling_robot#Bounce_juggling
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | 50 wrote:
       | > classical texts are enmeshed in a dense web of relationships
       | that can surprise and invigorate us, even after thousands of
       | years
       | 
       | "[E]nmeshed in a web of relationships", i.e., intertextual[1].
       | 
       | Further reading: Hermann Broch's novel, _The Death of Virgil_ ,
       | and Simone Weil's lesser known compilation of writings,
       | _Intimations of Christianity Among the Ancient Greeks_.
       | 
       | 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertextuality
        
         | OfSanguineFire wrote:
         | The web of relationships extends to music as well. After
         | reading that Broch novel, one might enjoy the cycle of works by
         | Jean Barraque that took their inspiration from _The Death of
         | Virgil_.
        
       | rgrieselhuber wrote:
       | Side question: I always thought it was spelled Virgil, has it
       | been decided to spell his name differently?
        
         | rgrieselhuber wrote:
         | Huh, TIL: https://www.thoughtco.com/is-it-virgil-or-
         | vergil-116735
        
         | LegionMammal978 wrote:
         | Both spellings have been used in English for a long time [0];
         | "Virgil" is just the far more common of the two. Wikipedia
         | claims that the original spelling "Vergilius" was changed to
         | "Virgilius" some centuries after his death [1], and the latter
         | became the form that spread to other languages.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Virgil%2CVergi...
         | 
         | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil#Spelling_of_name
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Kennedy's discovery of the musical division of Plato's Republic
       | is my favorite example of secret messages in literature
        
       | yayitswei wrote:
       | In the age of chatgpt it's easier than ever to practice acrostics
       | in your own work.
        
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       (page generated 2023-10-01 23:02 UTC)