[HN Gopher] Removing Sybils from an Open Network
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       Removing Sybils from an Open Network
        
       Author : mattwilsonn888
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2023-09-30 12:49 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (wiki.saito.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (wiki.saito.io)
        
       | pluto_modadic wrote:
       | Solving Sybils for any blockchain is kinda something rational,
       | ethical cryptographers wouldn't want to do... but I'm sure you
       | can pay someone to claim they've solved it.
       | 
       | I'm kinda okay with blockchains always remaining vulnerable and
       | becoming relics of the past. It's all a scam. Not patching it.
        
         | klabb3 wrote:
         | You mean because of the hype and scams associated with
         | blockchain technology?
         | 
         | I would agree with the assessment, but avoiding it for research
         | would be equally dumb. The tech itself has very interesting
         | properties and potential applications outside of "finance".
         | It's just a decentralized and slow global db with an
         | (empirically battletested) consensus mechanism.
        
           | littlestymaar wrote:
           | > with an (empirically battletested) consensus mechanism.
           | 
           | In fact there almost as many consensus mechanisms as there
           | are blockchains. In the beginning it was PoW that defined
           | what was a blockchain, but with its obsolescence in favor of
           | Proof of stakes for many chains the situation got muddier.
           | Facebook's Libra/Diem for instance was based on a strongly
           | consistent algorithm (as opposed to the eventually consistent
           | nature of PoS) that's not that different from PBFT and
           | ByzPaxos.
        
       | katella wrote:
       | Why should routing nodes be rewarded at all.
        
       | pawelduda wrote:
       | Ok, I've read about this before but can someone with big brain
       | dispute this? Seems like a solution to quite a problem but as
       | it's crypto, not entire truth could be told here
        
         | f_devd wrote:
         | The core of their argument is:
         | 
         | > as any routing node which self-clones to gain a larger share
         | of routing-work for a given transaction also reduces by half
         | the ability for that transaction to contribute towards the
         | valid block production work threshold
         | 
         | Seems like the primary assumption is that Sybill only happens
         | vertically (one node being taken as multiple), but in reality
         | Sybil is usually a per-actor problem, i.e. a CDN could be by a
         | single actor created to ensure minimal hops thereby creating an
         | effective Sybill attack.
         | 
         | Disclaimer: this is my read of their system it might have
         | different counter-measures/assumptions.
        
       | MollyRealized wrote:
       | I asked GPT-4 if they could "summarize for idiots". I do not have
       | enough knowledge to say if they summarized it accurately, but for
       | anyone like me, who felt like a very big dummy while reading
       | this, here's the summary:
       | 
       | The essay discusses a method to prevent Sybil attacks, where a
       | single adversary controls multiple nodes on a network to subvert
       | the network's functionality, in blockchain networks by making it
       | unprofitable for malicious nodes to add unnecessary 'hops' in
       | transaction paths. Saito's mechanism rewards nodes for
       | efficiently routing transactions to block producers, thus making
       | Sybil attacks less lucrative. This is further illustrated with
       | mathematical proof and examples comparing honest and Sybil
       | behaviors, highlighting how the expected rewards change in both
       | scenarios .
        
       | 38 wrote:
       | https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack
        
         | xerox13ster wrote:
         | I hate to be that person, but as someones with Dissociative
         | Identity Disorder I really wish we would stop using this term
         | and go back to pseudospoofing. I cannot express just how much I
         | HAAATE that the "solution" for a "Sybil" attack is
         | Decentralized IDentification, or DIDs. It's a wholesale theft
         | of the language that defines my existence and will lead many
         | people to associate those with DID with the story of Sybil
         | which woefully outdated and from a time when we knew far less
         | about dissociaton than we do today.
         | 
         | This has led me to understand empathically why there were
         | people suggesting we change bus terminology from master/slave
         | to anything else.
        
           | ilyt wrote:
           | I don't think there is any context where those 2 shortcuts
           | would be mistaken for one another.
           | 
           | > This has led me to understand empathically why there were
           | people suggesting we change bus terminology from master/slave
           | to anything else.
           | 
           | I guess you haven't been one fixing the fallout that
           | pointless shit caused.
        
             | kazinator wrote:
             | I don't think there is any context in which a bus mastering
             | DMA controller would be mistaken for a plantation owner.
        
           | hifromwork wrote:
           | This comment is very surprising to me. I don't think it's
           | reasonable to expect any three-letter acronym will only mean
           | one thing. For example my usual nickname has three letters,
           | and has around 20 definitions on wikipedia, including sex-
           | related, drug-related and politically charged meanings (I
           | don't identify with).
           | 
           | In fact, DID already has a disambiguation page on Wikipedia:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DID_(disambiguation). I don't
           | think Dublin Institute of Design or Data Item Descriptions
           | constitute "a wholesale theft of a language".
        
             | lovemenot wrote:
             | It's not DID alone that's the problem. I believe the parent
             | is triggered by the confluence of Sybil and DID.
        
           | lovemenot wrote:
           | It's clearly an unfortunate clash of both _DID_ and _Sybil_
           | in two separate nomenclatures. Each of which, in its own
           | domain, has different referents.
           | 
           | However, like many of the peer comments here I feel the
           | overlap of these two domains is vanishingly small. Presumably
           | only yourself and a handful of others would even be aware of
           | the etymology.
           | 
           | As you feel so strongly, perhaps a well-written blog post
           | would rank highly for anyone curious enough to disambiguate.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-30 23:01 UTC)