[HN Gopher] Investigating a teen's death on an ebike and the Rad...
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Investigating a teen's death on an ebike and the Rad brand's safety
Author : doctorpangloss
Score : 18 points
Date : 2023-09-29 21:14 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bicycling.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bicycling.com)
| IronWolve wrote:
| Steep hill and bicycle brakes, motorized or not, not a great
| combo.
| fnfjfk wrote:
| Hydraulic discs are fine on steep hills, I have both GRX and
| Ultegra ones and they will stop you very fast. That's on a much
| lighter bike though, and I doubt they're putting Ultegra-tier
| bikes on cheap e-stuff.
| Alupis wrote:
| Brake fade is a real issue, even with high end brakes. On a
| long hill, someone who's not comfortable with the speed with
| ride the brakes, just like inexperienced folks in cars do.
| taeric wrote:
| For a different definition of "fine." The problem with the
| steep hill and brakes for anyone will be losing control from
| either panic or over application.
|
| Especially on a bicycle where you have a passenger onboard,
| high speeds are just best avoided.
| lostlogin wrote:
| Yes, but further into the article it seems to get more
| concerning - wheels falling off and brake failure, repeatedly.
|
| It seems like there may be more to this than 'just' angry,
| bereaved parents.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| It's pretty easy to get out of control on a descent in any type
| of motorized or non motorized vehicle on the hills in the area
| described when one has little experience. We don't prepare
| adults for this with cars or children with bicycles, a
| motorized bicycle however lets one dig a much deeper hole
| momentum-wise than one would otherwise be capable.
| stefan_ wrote:
| Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32562957
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| These stories are going to come out more and more.
|
| I'm all for getting kids out and letting them be independent. I
| would ride my bike to the store across all sorts of roads when I
| was 12-13 year olds to buy rated R movies and Parental Advisory
| CDs. ("Mom, I'm going for a bike ride!")
|
| When you add these 20-25mph+ ebikes (they can be easily fooled to
| go faster than legal) and no prefrontal cortex development the
| situation can get scary quick. Unfortunately we don't have the
| infrastructure or dedicated, separated bike lanes that make them
| safe. so stupid solutions like "banning them" are obvious and
| lazy but there's not much else to do immediately.
| rottencupcakes wrote:
| > _Unfortunately we don 't have the infrastructure or
| dedicated, separated bike lanes that make them safe._
|
| I don't think we had that when we were growing up either?
|
| We just didn't have the internet, so one kid dying on a bike
| somewhere one time wasn't national news.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| I do remember national and local news segments about kids
| dying or being disabled by cars while they were riding their
| bikes. Most of the time there had to be some kind of point to
| drive home so it was about lack of helmets or whatever. Not
| that they really help vs a car. But that's why I just lied
| about where I was going. I never would have been allowed to
| ride across the major roads where I was going. If I had died
| they would have victim blamed me too.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >When you add these 20-25mph+ ebikes
|
| I know you're talking in general, but this specific case, the
| Rad bike _DOES NOT_ exceed 20mph under motor power. I own a
| different model than the one in this case, but mine stops
| powering the motor at 19.8mph. It is not possible for the bike
| to go faster than that under power. If they 've modified the
| bike in any way to bypass that limit, that's not the
| manufacturer's fault. Clearly, this road has a pretty decently
| steep hill. That would easily make it possible to reach speeds
| greater than 20mph, but it would not be under power of the
| motor. At this point, it's not any different from a non-eBike.
| The fact that this particular bike was an eBike is just a red
| herring to me.
|
| So, stressing that a bike can go 20-25mph+ is misdirection. Any
| bike going down the incline described in TFA can reach those
| speeds. Parents not exercising parental controls and allowing
| their kids unsupervised activity in known dangerous conditions
| need to accept some responsibility.
| BobbyJo wrote:
| How much time do you think someone peddling under their own
| power could maintain 20mph? Unless they have a lot experience
| biking, not much, so their exposure to high risk speeds is
| far less than a bike they can hop on and hold that speed the
| whole time.
|
| 20mph is fast as hell when you fall off or hit something.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| Yup. A bike can go 60+ down a hill.
| seneca wrote:
| > Unfortunately we don't have the infrastructure or dedicated,
| separated bike lanes that make them safe.
|
| How much risk does an ebike going 25mph+ pose to a cyclists on
| a regular bike, or a pedestrian? I know all of the bike paths
| near where I live ban any vehicle with a motor.
| blondie9x wrote:
| It's sad because if better transit options existed I doubt these
| e-bikes would have ever proliferated.
|
| Sad also how slow and ineffective government is, from the
| perspective of housing and transit, and more over from failure to
| regulate danger to the public well.
| xmprt wrote:
| E-bikes are the most energy efficient forms of transportation.
| The problem isn't e-bikes. If anything making e-bikes more
| ubiquitous would be a good thing since it would lead to better
| dedicated infrastructure for cycles as well as more cycling
| training in everyday life.
| karaterobot wrote:
| One of my least popular opinions, on the internet and in real
| life, is that you should have to be licensed to drive vehicles on
| the road. Including bikes. Not saying it's the same requirements
| to drive a car as it is to ride a bike, but just pretending you
| don't need to learn anything to ride a vehicle in traffic--
| especially a motorized one like an ebike--doesn't make sense to
| me. FWIW, I'm an avid bike rider, I just think it's hypocritical
| at best and dangerous at worst to say (as my jurisdiction does)
| that bikes are vehicles with all the rights and responsibilities
| of a car... but hey, you don't actually have to _know_ what those
| rights and responsibilities are to drive one... or even prove you
| know how to operate the vehicle... just hop on and get goin '!
| notnmeyer wrote:
| i mean, aren't 11 and 12 year olds a little young to be cut loose
| on motorized bikes?
|
| it seems slightly weird to me to be blaming the bike here. bikes
| experience failures, that's true of any bike. a more complicated
| bike has more failure points.
|
| 2 youngish kids on an e-bike on a hill with a 14% grade? e-bike
| or not, that's a dangerous situation.
| fnfjfk wrote:
| I've been riding in NYC for over 10 years and the ebike situation
| is getting ridiculous. People buy a bike that lets them ride fast
| with no training, and then ride like they are in a Terry
| Barentsen "Hotline" video (Google it).
|
| Except unlike the people in those videos, they have no skill at
| all. "Unearned speed" is the term in cycling communities.
|
| I'm genuinely surprised there aren't more deaths. Blowing red
| lights without even looking, salmoning, texting while riding,
| it's insane.
| cobbzilla wrote:
| I suppose "Rich kid accidentally kills self using expensive
| toy" wouldn't quite hit the front page.
|
| And I'm simple shocked, shocked to find out the rich lawyer
| power couple is seeking to absolve themselves of their
| culpability through a lawsuit.
| andsoitis wrote:
| > WHO IS RESPONSIBLE WHEN A CHILD DIES?
|
| Parents carry blame for buying a 13 year old a motorized vehicle
| that they the ride very fast.
|
| Also for endangering pedestrians who are now at the mercy of kids
| barreling down the road.
| bink wrote:
| The article did say the parents of the girl who owned the bike
| settled for $1.5 million.
| thesh4d0w wrote:
| I started reading this and thinking the parents were solely to
| blame, but the reports later about failing breaks is pretty f'ing
| concerning.
|
| If there was any evidence of that happening here though, it would
| be in the law suit.
| drivers99 wrote:
| [delayed]
| _dain_ wrote:
| It's not that I'm against an in-depth accident investigation like
| this. Go for it, by all means.
|
| But this kind of thing is practically never done for the
| thousands of children and teenagers that die each year from being
| hit by cars. It's just expected, normal, the price of doing
| business.
|
| A notable exception is Strong Towns' Crash Analysis Studio, they
| do great work: https://www.strongtowns.org/crash-studio
|
| Singling out ebikes seems like status-quo bias -- they get
| disproportionate scrutiny simply because they are new, not
| because of the level of risk they present.
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(page generated 2023-09-29 23:00 UTC)