[HN Gopher] UK airport confiscates passenger's Flipper Zero
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       UK airport confiscates passenger's Flipper Zero
        
       Author : anigbrowl
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2023-09-29 17:28 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dailydot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dailydot.com)
        
       | LASR wrote:
       | It almost sounds like he was bragging about the capabilities of
       | the device. That'll do it for sure.
       | 
       | But serious question: does it actually allow someone to copy
       | airport security badges?
        
         | dghlsakjg wrote:
         | As always, it depends.
         | 
         | Some badge technology is more prone to cloning than others. It
         | wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that airports aren't using
         | the most up to date access control.
        
         | MichaelMug wrote:
         | Assuming the badge using a frequency the Flipper supports. This
         | is why badge + PIN is important.
        
       | thefurdrake wrote:
       | > "[...]done at the discretion of airport security personnel and
       | not part of an aiport-wide mandate."
       | 
       | Turbo get fucked. Yeah, I'll even take the downvotes for
       | vulgarity on this one. This is a bald-faced statement: "We
       | encourage selective enforcement by individuals instead of
       | sticking to a defined policy."
       | 
       | Sure, if he hadn't mouthed off, this probably wouldn't have
       | happened; play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Whatever.
       | 
       | The fact that the law is designed in such a way to allow
       | someone's emotional state (Waaahh, he smart assed me about this
       | thing!) to determine if they enforce it is unacceptable. The fact
       | that they're confident enough to state that in public is
       | abhorrent.
        
         | dghlsakjg wrote:
         | He didn't just mouth off, he claimed that he could use the
         | device to circumvent their access badge control system through
         | cloning.
         | 
         | It seems like there is a pretty legitimate case to confiscating
         | a device from a person who says he could use said device to
         | compromise security. Even in the case that there isn't an
         | explicit policy against that specific device.
         | 
         | I sometimes travel with VHF/UHF ham radios. These, if used
         | improperly, could interfere with airport and operations, as
         | well as aircraft band radios. I occasionally get asked what the
         | radio is for, and I explain what it is. If I mouthed off and
         | said I can use it for all sorts of stuff, like jamming security
         | frequencies, I would expect to lose cus
         | 
         | If I casually mention to the cabin crew that my mealtime knife
         | could, technically, be used to stab them, should they also let
         | that slide since I'm just stating the capabilities of the
         | knife?
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | >he claimed that he could use the device to circumvent their
           | access badge control system through cloning
           | 
           | He probably couldn't have done that. Lost a Flipper (and some
           | time) on a nerd flex. I would've done the same, tho :D.
        
             | dizhn wrote:
             | It must be nice to live in a functioning Western democracy.
             | :)
        
           | thefurdrake wrote:
           | > He didn't just mouth off, he claimed that he could use the
           | device to circumvent their access badge control system
           | through cloning.
           | 
           | It doesn't matter.
           | 
           | What is allowed inside and what is not allowed inside of an
           | airport should not be a matter of personal discretion.
           | 
           | Either a thing is permitted or it is not permitted. There
           | should be no room for interpretation. If the airport has a
           | problem with these devices, they can damn well write a policy
           | that is observable for anyone prior to visiting the airport.
           | 
           | You can try mental gymnastics to justify this all you want,
           | but the fact remains the device not being permitted is not
           | policy, and the decision to confiscate it was made at a
           | personal level.
           | 
           | > If I casually mention to the cabin crew that my mealtime
           | knife could, technically, be used to stab them, should they
           | also let that slide since I'm just stating the capabilities
           | of the knife?
           | 
           | See, like this sort of mental gymnastics. You wouldn't have
           | the knife confiscated, you would have yourself detained and
           | possibly arrested for demonstrating signs of mental
           | instability. The knife would remain on the aircraft and
           | undergo its normal lifecycle. This really wasn't a difficult
           | situation to theorycraft out, so I'm not sure why you thought
           | it'd support your position.
           | 
           | > If I mouthed off and said I can use it for all sorts of
           | stuff, like jamming security frequencies, I would expect to
           | lose cus
           | 
           | See, that's what's so dim about this logic; you've been so
           | programmed to accept the dick that you think it's totally
           | normal that discussing the capabilities of legal objects is
           | valid grounds for intervention that you honestly think this
           | shouldn't be allowed.
           | 
           | You are part of the problem.
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | Please refrain from insults and crude sexist personal
             | attacks. It violates the site rules, and weakens the
             | effectiveness of your argument.
             | 
             | I didn't defend the airport security rules, I simply
             | pointed out that this is a pretty rational reaction to the
             | existing rules, and not at all an unpredictable outcome of
             | that persons actions.
             | 
             | I would love to see airport security reformed. I would love
             | to live in a world where we can acknowledge that
             | traditional hijacking is not really a risk anymore.
             | 
             | However, I don't see a possible and likely reform where you
             | can go to a secure area and talk about your ability to
             | bypass security with a device, and expect to keep that
             | device.
             | 
             | If you want a list of things that are and aren't allowed,
             | you end up with a list that defaults to anything not
             | explicitly allowed is banned.
        
               | thefurdrake wrote:
               | > Please refrain from insults and crude sexist personal
               | attacks. It violates the site rules, and weakens the
               | effectiveness of your argument.
               | 
               | Fair enough. (Edit: What I said isn't sexist and it won't
               | ever be, but this guy seems intent on driving that
               | narrative)
               | 
               | > I simply pointed out that this is a pretty rational
               | reaction to the existing rules
               | 
               | It's not, though. Not even remotely. I know how to commit
               | a crime with every object on my body, including the
               | actual parts of my body. I know that, you know that, the
               | airport security staff knows that, a child knows that. He
               | didn't say, "I'm going to punch people at this airport,"
               | he said, "I know kung fu," and this scared the
               | individual, so he was detained and the scary object
               | confiscated.
               | 
               | Further: I can use the wifi radio in my laptop to commit
               | a crime in the UK, according to an adjacent comment. Is
               | it sane that possessing that knowledge should mean I have
               | my laptop taken away? Is my laptop, which was just fine
               | moments prior to me saying, "I can listen to wifi with a
               | laptop", suddenly no longer alright? That's any wireless
               | NIC with promisc mode...
               | 
               | > If you want a list of things that are and aren't
               | allowed, you end up with a list that defaults to anything
               | not explicitly allowed is banned.
               | 
               | No. You end up with a set of predictable restrictions
               | that people can rely upon to know what they are and are
               | not permitted to bring into a facility-- this shouldn't
               | be /guesswork/. There are some /serious ramifications/ to
               | your entire life if someone decides something you have is
               | dangerous at an airport, so there should be some pretty
               | serious requirements for making clear what is and is not
               | permitted.
        
               | tanseydavid wrote:
               | Uh, sexist?!?!?! Where?
        
               | dghlsakjg wrote:
               | I was referring to "taking the dick"
               | 
               | The implication is that the person "dispensing dick" is
               | superior to the person receiving.
               | 
               | In the context of male-female sexual relations it implies
               | that women are somehow lesser in the relationship.
               | 
               | It also has overtones of homophobia in the context of
               | male-male relationships.
               | 
               | I suppose I should have said sexist and/or homophobic to
               | be strictly accurate.
        
               | thefurdrake wrote:
               | I'm bisexual and like dick, so spare me.
               | 
               | :)
               | 
               | Edit:
               | 
               | Actually, this is making me angrier than it really should
               | have.
               | 
               | Quite frankly, go jump into a river with your faux
               | allyship -- what I said isn't sexist. The parts of the
               | queer community I hang out in, dick's used just as much
               | by women as men to assert dominance. If anything, I was
               | disparaging the D/s relationship, because assertion of
               | dominance and acceptance of it was exactly what I was
               | talking about.
               | 
               | You know exactly why you chose to lead your response with
               | the implication that I'm a sexist/homophobic, and it
               | wasn't because you're interested in promoting happy,
               | good-faith discourse on this website.
        
               | thefurdrake wrote:
               | "Taking the dick" is arguably a sexist position.
               | 
               | I disagree, but it's a tiresome argument that isn't worth
               | having. Going on about it would distract, which is what
               | the point of the objection was; that's why he led with
               | it.
        
               | pfannkuchen wrote:
               | More like homophobic, no? I don't think he is implying
               | the other poster is a woman.
        
               | thefurdrake wrote:
               | Homophobic would be appropriate, yes, but that's not what
               | the was claimed, and there's nothing else related to
               | sex/gender in my response to him, so I guess that's the
               | angle he's going for.
        
             | nerpderp82 wrote:
             | The man was fool. Flipper Zero is most likely illegal in
             | the UK.
             | 
             | https://www.monitoringtimes.com/html/mtlaws_may04.html
             | 
             | He can pen test a wireless system, but he can't get his
             | tools through airport security. Maybe he should become a
             | little bit more well rounded.
        
               | thefurdrake wrote:
               | If the device is illegal in the UK, that definitely
               | changes things.
        
           | petre wrote:
           | He could just shut up about it, instead of acting _smart_ ,
           | because the device looks like a retro game. If he did that in
           | a Russian airport ten years ago he'd probably be thrown in
           | prison for at least six months.
        
             | thefurdrake wrote:
             | Shutting up is always the optimal path.
             | 
             | Edit: Not that Russia 10 years ago was a country known for
             | its respect for rule of law...
        
             | NullPrefix wrote:
             | Does UK have the right to remain silent?
        
         | ls612 wrote:
         | And people wonder why many westerners don't value the rule of
         | law as a concept anymore. It's almost like they're figuring out
         | it was a sham all along.
        
       | menthe wrote:
       | If the dude had a couple more brain cells, he'd still have it.
       | 
       | > Domingos said that he was initially asked by security if he
       | knew what the device did. The technologist replied by stating
       | that the Flipper Zero is capable of, among other things, scanning
       | and copying badge cards such as those used by the airport's
       | security personnel.
        
         | Kiuhrly1 wrote:
         | a more mature response might be something along the lines of
         | "I'm a cybersecurity researcher/hobbyist and the device is used
         | to communicate with other electronics for the purposes of
         | security research", although that argument doesn't exactly have
         | a good track record with law enforcement in many countries...
        
         | csteubs wrote:
         | This guy was undoubtedly the kid who reminded the teacher to
         | assign homework.
        
       | notnmeyer wrote:
       | this makes me want a flipper zero
        
       | notdang wrote:
       | Apparently the owner decided to make jokes in an airport:
       | 
       | > Domingos said that he was initially asked by security if he
       | knew what the device did. The technologist replied by stating
       | that the Flipper Zero is capable of, among other things, scanning
       | and copying badge cards such as those used by the airport's
       | security personnel.
       | 
       | > "If I can copy your badges, then you might want to fix that
       | before banning a legal device," Domingo reportedly said.
        
       | effnorwood wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | local_crmdgeon wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | rlpb wrote:
       | Security: what's this?
       | 
       | Person subject to security: it's a device I can use to compromise
       | your security
       | 
       | Of course they'll confiscate it then. This would probably apply
       | to any device they choose to describe to security this way.
       | 
       | Security: <pointing to pen> What's this?
       | 
       | Person subject to security: I can stab you with it. You really
       | should all wear bulletproof vests to stop that happening!
       | 
       | What do you think will happen? It seems reasonable under these
       | circumstances to take your pen if they're going to allow you on
       | board at all.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-29 23:02 UTC)