[HN Gopher] Raspberry Pi 5
___________________________________________________________________
Raspberry Pi 5
Author : chabes
Score : 1282 points
Date : 2023-09-28 05:29 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.raspberrypi.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.raspberrypi.com)
| doomemax wrote:
| Here's an overview of a lot of the specs and how it compares to
| Raspberry Pi 4: https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/a-first-look-
| at-raspberry...
| rgovostes wrote:
| At the moment the product page is just a list of specs, but the
| blog post goes into much more detail, including describing the
| new RP1 I/O controller:
|
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
|
| On pre-ordering:
|
| > We're also giving every print subscriber to The MagPi and
| HackSpace magazines a single-use code, giving them priority
| access to Raspberry Pi 5 hardware.
|
| A subscription is US$43 and up, and gets you a priority code to
| use at PiShop or The Pi Hut. You pay full price for the RPi 5,
| but it ships to you first.
| [deleted]
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| [flagged]
| blowski wrote:
| > Yes RPi foundation, please also spit in my mouth,
|
| Ridiculous take. Seems like a perfectly good balance,
| prioritising limited stock to supporters of the Raspberry Pi,
| beyond simply selling to the highest bidder every time.
| wasmitnetzen wrote:
| Maybe OP is a bit upset after they they prioritized
| commercial customers for years.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| It's not worth getting a subscription just t get earlier
| access to RPi 5, but dedicated hobbyists who read MagPi are
| probably delighted the stores won't immediately be emptied.
| tm-guimaraes wrote:
| RaspberryPis are a physical good, those have production
| limitations. They are also quite cheap, sell well, and have
| kept prices.
|
| It's quite different from a lootbox that has no production
| restriction (replication is instant and almost free)
|
| I don't believe that the low supply of RPIs is an attempt to
| extract huge profits, logistics are not easy. This magazine
| move seems more of an honest way to prioritizing people that
| have been showing interest. They are not demanding new
| subscriptions, they are prioritizing who has on.
|
| An entusiastic hobbyists, that has been accompanying the
| project and supporting via these, would be happy that we got
| his pi before some random guy clicking buy on impulse
| rewmie wrote:
| > RaspberryPis are a physical good, those have production
| limitations. They are also quite cheap, sell well, and have
| kept prices.
|
| I'm not sure they kept prices. $60 for a 4GB board sounds
| like a price increase compared to the $50 RPi4 4GB model.
| And didn't the RPi model A sold for around $25?
| Shawnj2 wrote:
| A $35 one with less RAM is gone now as well
| dwardu wrote:
| times are tough, right?
| snvzz wrote:
| There's always RISC-V.
| rollcat wrote:
| A CPU instruction set architecture means nothing without
| someone designing, building, and _shipping_ the rest of the
| computer around it. https://stat545.com/img/how-to-draw-an-
| own-imgur.jpg
| Fnoord wrote:
| Curious how Milk-V Mars CM [1] holds up to an eventual CM5
|
| [1] https://milkv.io/mars-cm
| brucehoult wrote:
| A bit slower than a CM4, of course.
|
| The Lichee Module 4A is a CM-style board, though not
| compatible with CM4, and is generally a bit faster than a
| Pi 4.
|
| That's the fastest RISC-V you can get right now (but you
| can get 64 of those > Pi4 cores in one chip!). Chip and
| boards in RK3588 class coming next year, so that's ~Pi5.
| [deleted]
| badtension wrote:
| I wonder if anyone here is using RPi as a main PC? Seems to be
| capable of most office work with a bit of multimedia on the side.
| My laptop is dying and I would love to get something stationary
| that is low-power by default yet good enough so that the internet
| wouldn't lag.
|
| Mounted at the back of an LCD screen could make a nice wireless
| setup with the other peripherals.
| throwaway2990 wrote:
| Na it's too slow.
|
| I got one and I don't touch it. I do also have an orange pi 5
| and khandas edge 2 pro. Both are miles ahead of the rpi4 and
| based on specs they are miles ahead of the rpi5.
| lonjil wrote:
| In actual real benchmarking OPi5 is about the same as RPi5.
| badtension wrote:
| Are your other microcomputers capable of normal office
| operation?
| throwaway2990 wrote:
| 100%.
|
| I use them for development. One has ubuntu installed and
| the other Fedora.
| alskdj21 wrote:
| Interesting. Can you give more details on your work? I've
| been on the edge lately over picking a desktop, an intel
| NUC or something like a Pi. Price to performance and
| power draw is something I'm considering.
| throwaway2990 wrote:
| Both I run JetBrains IDEs on both to do c++, rust, and
| .net work. One device is for work and one for personal.
|
| https://www.khadas.com/edge2
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Pi-Computer-Frequency-
| Android/...
| badtension wrote:
| Same here. A great advantage of such devices is they can
| later be easily repurposed to control home automation,
| audio system or make a simple DIY project with them. It
| is much harder with other types of hardware, like a
| laptop for example.
| epolanski wrote:
| I think for many devs that can use dev containers or codespaces
| is more than okay.
|
| Would not do heavy computing on it though, eslint alone for my
| use cases already kills my 8 core 7700x
| preisschild wrote:
| > I wonder if anyone here is using RPi as a main PC? Seems to
| be capable of most office work with a bit of multimedia on the
| side. My laptop is dying and I would love to get something
| stationary that is low-power by default yet good enough so that
| the internet wouldn't lag.
|
| Unfortunately, it is too slow to even smoothly power a desktop
| environment.
| badtension wrote:
| Thanks. This is a bit surprising to me since they advertise
| two 60 Hz 4K display drivers...
| daveoc64 wrote:
| The Raspberry Pi 4 could do a single monitor at 4K/60Hz.
|
| The overall performance still wasn't great.
| dtx1 wrote:
| You can have 4k60 and still have open office take seconds
| to respond to a keyboard input.
| badtension wrote:
| Sure but why include that if a text processor is too much
| for the board? To display static images or demoscene
| visualisations?
| dtx1 wrote:
| If it's hardware accelerated it could still display that
| fine. I'm sure there are older games that could indeed
| run in 4k60fps
| capableweb wrote:
| So with this PCIe 2.0 x1 port, would I be able to connect a GPU
| to this Raspberry? Would be very useful, even if the bandwidth
| would be horrible.
| jsight wrote:
| It has been attempted with the pi 4. I'm guessing it would be
| possible with the right drivers:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9dItRUjQ0k
| bpye wrote:
| I see that the PR against the Raspberry Pi linux repo is out [0].
| Interestingly they are introducing a BCM2712 defconfig with a 64k
| default page size.
|
| From the device tree [1] it looks like they've rolled their own
| IOMMU rather than using ARM's SMMU which is annoying.
|
| [0] - https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/pull/5618
|
| [1] -
| https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/9c75e5408c01cb7c65...
| fanf2 wrote:
| Interesting. Did the earlier Raspberry Pi Broadcom SOCs not
| have an IOMMU? If they did I would have expected the 5 to be
| compatible with older ones.
| bpye wrote:
| I'm fairly sure that none of the earlier SoCs had an IOMMU.
| It's of course possible that there was one hidden in the GPU
| or something, but nothing on the CPU side.
| renegat0x0 wrote:
| rpi4 was kind of slow for light desktop browsing in my
| experience, without overclocking.
|
| I kind of wonder how the new PI would work in that scenario.
|
| I used it with SSD drive, by USB.
| zxcvgm wrote:
| Interestingly the Pi 5 has moved most I/O like Ethernet, USB,
| MIPI and GPIO into a custom I/O controller chip called the RP1.
| It talks to the main CPU over 4-lane PCIe. They also have a
| custom PMIC (Dialog DA9091) with a built-in RTC and support for
| external backup battery. Everything else seems pretty standard.
| hedora wrote:
| I'm surprised they are only claiming 2-3x performance
| improvements for this vs. the four.
|
| The four was great until I realized that they hung all sorts of
| stuff off the same bottlenecked USB controller.
|
| I'd think moving them to PCIe would net much more than 2-3x
| real world improvement.
| schappim wrote:
| > Interestingly the Pi 5 has moved most I/O like Ethernet, USB,
| MIPI and GPIO into a custom I/O controller chip called the RP1.
|
| For cost-saving reasons, the I/O is located in the RP1
| Southbridge (which has a larger process size) instead of the
| SoC. I had the opportunity to preview the Pi5 and have provided
| a detailed breakdown of the RP1's components [1]. In summary,
| what I/O functionalities does the RP1 manage? Essentially, it
| handles almost all of them.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/q_QPM9xV_sw?si=dq-EEUp2u05-KrhM&t=252
| dboreham wrote:
| Just like a 1970s IBM mainframe ;)
| alana314 wrote:
| I wish it had onboard storage, SD cards have failed on me
| isoprophlex wrote:
| I'm happy that they're upgrading the pi, but it's not exactly
| lightweight computing in terms of power (they recommend a 27W
| PSU) or performance/watt (see: your cell phone)
|
| To me the charm of the raspi ecosystem was always in giving you a
| very low power, "always on, almost no power draw" linux
| environment. Oh well, I guess there's always the older versions
| or the zero for that.
| fbdab103 wrote:
| At 27W that is a strong pass vs a NUC. If I go with a low power
| x86 NUC, I can run all software on it, and probably insert a
| SSD + additional RAM, for probably ~15W.
| pja wrote:
| That'll be peak power draw though: you have to spec the
| standard power supply to cope with the CPU running @ 100% &
| simultaneously feeding the 1G ethernet and all the USB ports
| at max power.
|
| Jeff Geerling measured 11W peak board power running
| benchmarks. Idle power was measured at 1.8W.
|
| They claim it will draw less power than the Pi4 for the same
| workloads.
| [deleted]
| Narishma wrote:
| It's 12W, not 27.
| stevenhuang wrote:
| Max tdp rating is not idle power draw.
|
| Difference being if your workload now demands it, the
| increased power rating allows faster race to idle, and
| overall gain in power efficiency.
| zambal wrote:
| Peak power draw is 12W, not 27W for the Rpi5 though.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| I don't think the newer models are supposed to completely
| supersede the older models. They are still available, and they
| still make them. If you have low power needs, you can use
| those.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Yeah my intel atom NUCs run at 5W idle and 10W load and they're
| a ton faster than a pi 4. Probably a pi 5 too. It's not very
| impressive.
|
| And that's with a real SSD.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Yeah, the intel n100 is absolutely fantastic. but even at
| bargain basement price its at least 2-4x the price:
|
| https://www.amazon.co.uk/TRIGKEY-Mini-PC-Desktop-
| Computer/dp...
|
| I have the above, it's max powerdraw is <5 watts, even at 50%
| cpu its <3watts. That comes with ram, SSD, case and
| motherboard. so to get the pi5 to the same state would need
| an SD card (boo hiss poor speed.)
|
| From what I've seen the pi5 is 1/3rd faster than the intel
| j5005. (in pybench at least.)
|
| but comparing to a real intel NUC, of course its going to be
| faster, the NUC costs an entire order of magnitude more.
| doubled112 wrote:
| I don't know how the N95 and N100 compare, but I picked up
| a Beelink mini PC with an N95, 16GB RAM and 500 GB NVME for
| $195 on a sale the other day.
|
| The Pi 5 looks to be $112.
|
| By the time I buy a PSU, SD card, case, RTC battery, etc,
| I'm definitely not saving money buying a Pi.
|
| Disclaimer: Canadian dollars.
| biomcgary wrote:
| I picked up a Beelink because the Raspberry Pi 4 was
| unavailable. I use it as a Linux desktop (next to my M1
| Air) and a Jellyfin media server. It has replaced the
| Raspberry Pi for some purposes, but the Pi still has a
| place when hacking on hardware due to the GPIO.
| bmurphy1976 wrote:
| I bought an N100 for 160 USD including an SSD off of
| AliExpress. Thats 2x the cost of an rpi4. I benchmarked it
| and cpu perf is roughly 2x the rpi however i/o was easily
| 10x without any sdcard or USB shenanigans. Bonus because
| it's an Intel chip I can use the regular x86-64 os builds
| instead of some goofy fork. That's very compelling if you
| don't need a gpio or any of the raspberry pi accessories
| for your use case.
| keikobadthebad wrote:
| The SD is the worst for reliability, but if it's like rpi4,
| you can put UEFI on the SPI flash and come up on non-SD
| boot devices without SD now.
|
| But that's all kind of crazy when cheaper, faster SBCs
| commonly simply boot to reliable, on-board, eMMC.
| selimnairb wrote:
| Yeah, still happy I went with the Odroid M1 for a small
| home media server. It's not fast, but it does everything
| I need out of the box, has a very nice aluminum case, and
| doesn't use much power.
| dougmwne wrote:
| That's not suppressing since the Pi is usually several
| process node generations behind.
| peteforde wrote:
| NUCs cost hundreds of dollars, though. And they are probably
| 8x bigger, if you start stacking Pis.
| xienze wrote:
| I hadn't heard of these N100 systems before, but in a
| minute's worth of searching I found this:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-Intel-N100-Computer-
| Desktop-D...
|
| Faster processor, 16GB RAM, 500GB NVME SSD, with case.
| $165! That's damn impressive, considering the RPi5 with 8GB
| RAM is suggested to sell for $80 (good luck getting it for
| that little). And Amazon can get it to me in two days.
|
| Yeah it's definitely bigger, but I wasn't expecting these
| systems to be so cheap.
| martin_a wrote:
| Rasperry Pi board easily cost hundreds of dollars, too,
| once the scalpers have bought up the little stock that is
| there.
| nsteel wrote:
| I've only ever paid RRP and I strongly suggest you do to.
| Better yet, there are plenty of Pi 4 to purchase these
| days.
| martin_a wrote:
| yes, these days. let's have a look at the last three
| years and see how it was then...
| nsteel wrote:
| Why is that interesting? Are we expecting another global
| semiconductor supply chain problem?
| martin_a wrote:
| Because people who _needed_ to buy a Raspberry Pi simply
| weren't able to do so.
| nsteel wrote:
| Exactly the same as every other hardware supplier. For pi
| there was some kind of scheme for businesses who
| _actually_ needed the hardware in order to stay in
| business. No idea how that worked.
|
| Either way, this is all history. Raspberry Pi boards do
| not cost hundreds of dollars as claimed.
| peteforde wrote:
| psst https://rpilocator.com/
| martin_a wrote:
| not much of use for the last three years.
| justin66 wrote:
| That site is one reason why I was able to buy Pis at list
| price these last three years.
| progbits wrote:
| This was used exactly for the last three years so you
| could get an alert when it became available.
|
| Before that there was no need for a locator, just buy
| from whatever eshop, everyone had it in stock and at
| MSRP.
| d3w4s9 wrote:
| Only if you are looking for a latest-gen or last gen
| machine. You can find some old NUCs for cheap, and there
| are lots of mini PCs or thin clients for around ~100. Yes
| about twice as expensive but more than twice as powerful
| (in both processor speed and features). Of course only if
| you plan to use it as a Linux computer, not for GPIO stuff.
| moffkalast wrote:
| The NUC's GPIO header: _crickets_
| BackBlast wrote:
| If you want the GPIO, that's a good reason to go Pi.
| Nothing equal to the software support inside the raspberry
| pi eco system for it's embedded controls.
|
| If you want a small PC for media/homelab server/cheap
| desktop, they don't make any real sense anymore.
| nirav72 wrote:
| That's a easy problem to solve -
| https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264
|
| There are other cheaper boards for USB to GPIO out here as
| well.
| moffkalast wrote:
| It solves it, as much as adding a trailer to your sports
| car solves your problem of not having a pickup truck. It
| works, but it's very inconvenient.
|
| Eventually those boards run into limitations and then you
| have to just opt to go with serial to a microcontroller
| which misses the entire point of having a SBC.
| nirav72 wrote:
| I agree that its not the ideal solution. Still would be
| better to use a SBC like the Raspberry Pi or other
| boards. But was just pointing out that if GPIO needed to
| interface with slower hardware like relay boards or
| sensors , then there is an option.
| trevvr wrote:
| There was at least one NUC with a full GPIO header set. The
| DE3815TYKHE. I've done motor control, I2C and sensor IO
| with it and it was rock solid on that little NUC.
|
| There was also the UP Board which was an Atom SOC with PI
| compatible GPIO. I believe that's still in production?!
| moffkalast wrote:
| Oh wow that's the first I'm seeing that, looks like it's
| still available though a bit pricey for over 1 GB of
| memory.
|
| https://up-shop.org/up-board-series.html
|
| Then again that is severely dated, the Atom was a very
| capable processor... when it launched, almost a decade
| ago.
| robotnikman wrote:
| Wow, I never knew they had x86 boards like this. The fact
| that its x86 is a huge deal itself in itself, due to more
| software/distro compatibility.
| sunshine-o wrote:
| Yes, if I look at those new Intel N100 based mini PCs with a
| 15W TDP and their power / price / consumption ratio it would
| seems Intel took notice of the threat and reacted
| accordingly.
|
| Especially now that the RPI kind of need a fan and you need
| to buy the power supply, the storage and the case. Well the
| RPI has GPIO but for small home server use case nobody
| cares...
| nirav72 wrote:
| >Well the RPI has GPIO
|
| GPIO can be added via tons of USB to GPIO boards out there.
|
| But I agree - lot of people tend to buy the Raspberry Pis
| for home servers instead of just opting for used mini-PCs
| from secondary markets. Even a 7-8 year old Intel CPU in
| those mini PCs will vastly outperform a Raspberry pi. Even
| the Raspberry 5. Plus, better I/O options and storage with
| mini PC.
| monocasa wrote:
| > GPIO can be added via tons of USB to GPIO boards out
| there.
|
| Depends on the use case. USB adds a few orders of
| magnitude more latency and jitter versus what's probably
| just APB.
| agumonkey wrote:
| yeah, i miss the 5-10W early days
| fanf2 wrote:
| You can still buy older models of Raspberry Pi if you don't
| need the performance of the new ones.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| It's great for my farming robot though. We have plenty of power
| but want something small and reliable, and the Raspberry Pi
| Compute Module works wonders for this. More power will be
| welcome once they release a Compute Module version of the 5.
| qchris wrote:
| Is there a reason you're not interested in those NVIDIA
| Jetson modules? Even excluding the GPU compute, I had thought
| the Orin boards were significantly faster than a Pi 4.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| So for what we're using it for, which is handling Wi-Fi
| communications to a central server, handling CAN bus
| communications to four motor controllers, dealing with RTK
| GPS and calculating path following parameters for GPS
| paths, the raspberry pi is perfect. They are cheap, have
| excellent documentation, and until recently availability
| was no issue.
|
| Jetson boards are much more expensive. We do plan on making
| a computer vision add on for our robot which uses the Orin
| or similar to process images, but I find the raspberry pi
| perfect for sort of stitching the whole system together.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| At this point something like beelink mini pc fits my needs much
| better - I don't need tons of gpio ports, etc.
| dheera wrote:
| The worst part about it is they require a nonstandard, USB-C
| standard-violating proprietary power brick that does 5V5A.
|
| None of your 100W Anker or Apple power bricks will supply this.
| They'll do 12V3A, 12V5A, 20V5A, but not 5V5A.
|
| Yet another piece of nonstandard USB-C equipment.
| teamonkey wrote:
| It doesn't _need_ it, on the blog they say that if you use a
| standard 15W USB supply, it (by default) limits the board 's
| USB output current so it can't cause a power failure at 100%
| CPU.
| dheera wrote:
| Oh, I see, so 100% CPU with no USB devices can run fine on
| 5V3A? That's nice to know. I could just use a powered hub
| for USB devices then.
|
| I wish they had an auxilary DC power connector of some sort
| though that could just power the Pi on straight up + and -
| from a DC power supply. Ideally anywhere from 5-12V.
| Goz3rr wrote:
| I pulled up the actual USB power delivery standard[1]
| USB_PD_R3_1 V1.8 2023-04.pdf, and 5V 5A is perfectly
| compliant, albeit optional.
|
| On page 805 you find Table 10-2 SPR Normative Voltages and
| Minimum Currents, which specifies that a USB PD source with a
| rating of 15 < x <= 27 watts *shall* support 3A at 5V,
| however it *May* advertise up to RoundUp (PDP/Voltage) to the
| nearest 10mA. Requires a 5A cable if over 3A is advertised.
| 27W/5 rounded to the nearest 10mA comes to 5.4A
|
| [1]: https://www.usb.org/document-library/usb-power-delivery
| explodingwaffle wrote:
| It's worth noting that this is _allowed_ by the USB-PD spec,
| but you're right that 5V @ 5A is not common because it is not
| required. At least it's better than the Pi 4 was at launch?
| :D
| dheera wrote:
| It would have been better if it could accept 12V3A which
| many USB-PD adapters can do. Or better yet just a XT30
| connector and 5V5A.
| moffkalast wrote:
| > When using a standard 5V, 3A (15W) USB-C power adapter with
| Raspberry Pi 5, by default we must limit downstream USB
| current to 600mA to ensure that we have sufficient margin to
| support these workloads. This is lower than the 1.2A limit on
| Raspberry Pi 4, though generally still sufficient to drive
| mice, keyboards, and other low-power peripherals.
|
| This is also very uncool, since powering it through the GPIO
| header with a capable PSU won't trigger the PD signal and
| makes it impossible to draw any meaningful current through
| USB? I hope this blockade can be worked around in the boot
| config.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| How much power is safe to send through a GPIO pin? I'd
| imagine you'd want to make use of the Pi's 2 5V pins at
| that point.
| moffkalast wrote:
| I mean theoretically dupont connectors are rated for 2.5
| A so two of them could get it done, but the current will
| never be completely equal across both and one may get
| overloaded. Maybe the safest option would be to find some
| kind of barrel-jack-to-usb-c dongle.
|
| In practice I doubt it would be a real problem since
| you'd need to max out both the USB draw and CPU load at
| the exact same time to get the full draw.
| teamonkey wrote:
| The blog post says you can override it.
| fulafel wrote:
| Would be interesting to see benchmarks of different PI
| generations at the same power level, assuming the older ones
| have dynamic power mgmt features too.
| foggywin wrote:
| Did you read the blog post? :)
|
| "Raspberry Pi 5 consumes significantly less power, and runs
| significantly cooler, than Raspberry Pi 4 when running an
| identical workload. However, the much higher performance
| ceiling means that for the most intensive workloads, and in
| particular for pathological "power virus" workloads, peak power
| consumption increases to around 12W, versus 8W for Raspberry Pi
| 4."
| [deleted]
| ZuLuuuuuu wrote:
| Is there a way to limit the processor power so that it never
| exceeds a certain threshold? Because some people might be
| okay with slower processor if it means less power usage.
| publicmail wrote:
| I think at least with the Pi 4, you can limit the CPU clock
| by editing a config file, which has a power limiting
| effect.
| tetris11 wrote:
| If you set the scheduler to powersave, it downclocks all
| cores and saves power that way.
| ballenf wrote:
| Yes, there is a low power mode. And you're forced to use
| that if you startup with an "under"-powered supply.
|
| Jeff Geerling on YT has a great in-depth review of these
| options in his latest video.
| thereisnojesus wrote:
| I read a lot of Jeff's blog, but his vlogs put me to
| sleep. He isn't charismatic and makes the worst jokes.
| People forget that a visual medium is visual. He channel
| is an example of great information that is ruined by the
| visual medium.
| s3p wrote:
| Can you explain their decision to recommend a 27W power
| supply then?
| daveoc64 wrote:
| The new board supports more power hungry IO. If you want to
| use all of the IO available and push the new SoC then
| you're going to need a beefier power supply.
| Dah00n wrote:
| What happens if you use those beef options without a
| powerful PSU?
| moffkalast wrote:
| Alright so 27W with heavy peripheral draw then? But 12 W
| still means it'll be drawing 2.4 amps instead of 1.6 when a
| random process decides to 100% it. I guess we can always
| underclock it.
|
| The real unanswered question is, does it finally have a damn
| sleep mode so it can save power when idle.
| rollcat wrote:
| > The real unanswered question is, does it finally have a
| damn sleep mode so it can save power when idle.
|
| I dream of DIY'ing a laptop, and RPi looks like a great
| platform for prototyping that... until you realize there's
| just no sensible way to put it to sleep. Hibernate +
| aggressive boot time optimization?
| moffkalast wrote:
| You know it's funny, my current laptop has a weird
| firmware bug (certified Asus moment) where it refuses to
| go into sleep mode. If sleep is triggered by any OS it
| will straight up just shut down completely. I've lost
| some work the first few times I used it out of habit.
|
| Eventually though it didn't turn out to be much of an
| issue, SSDs boot real fast these days anyway and I can
| just do a full power cycle.
| pja wrote:
| Jeff Geerling measured 1.8W idle power draw.
|
| Based on my experience with previous Pis, I bet you'll be
| able to drop that even further by turning off unused board
| components at boot time.
| moffkalast wrote:
| True, I've gotten Pi 4s pretty low (< 1W), disabling the
| LEDs, Ethernet, HDMI, and USB controller, but it's never
| gonna equal a proper suspend.
| sapiogram wrote:
| 1W is honestly not that great, though. A smartphone will
| do 10x that out of the box, and still pling for Facebook
| notifications.
| nine_k wrote:
| A smartphone has two entirely separate computers in it,
| the one that runs Android or iOS, and the baseband
| controller. The latter is built to be very power-
| efficient while waiting for a radio signal. It will wake
| up the dormant application OS computer when a push
| notification comes in.
|
| The same likely can be built on top of an RPi, using,
| say, wake-on-LAN signaling, or some GPIO as an interrupt
| source. You'll have to suspend your OS while idle for a
| prolonged time though.
| Fnoord wrote:
| How did you disable the LED? I mean I can disable LEDs
| via /proc but not in config.txt correct?
| pja wrote:
| Add # Disable Power LED after boot
| dtparam=pwr_led_activelow=off # Disable SD card
| activity led dtparam=act_led_trigger=none
| dtparam=act_led_activelow=off # Disable the
| ethernet LEDs - these are Pi4 specific values. #
| Look in the docs for the values for other Pi boards.
| dtparam=eth_led0=4 dtparam=eth_led1=4
|
| to /boot/config.txt
| Fnoord wrote:
| Thank you!
|
| It appears to depend on firmware or kernel but for recent
| kernels (recent 6.1 or 6.2) activelow is no longer
| necessary [1]. It seems to work on CM4.
|
| PS: my bad I disabled the LEDs via /sys not /proc
| previously:
|
| > # for i in /sys/class/leds/*; do echo 0 >
| "$i/brightness"; done
|
| [1] https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/1742
| doubled112 wrote:
| I've had this drive me crazy.
|
| The required lines were different between the Pi 2 and Pi
| 4 I was using at the time, and the documentation was not
| updated (or I'd found old docs).
|
| An exercise in trial and error.
| pipo234 wrote:
| I read that the "PC style" power button allows both soft
| and hard shutdown, so I suppose suspend and hibernate come
| into the picture as well. It's mostly a matter of OS
| support, the firmware seems to be there.
| nfriedly wrote:
| > _soft and hard shutdown_
|
| My reading of that was:
|
| "soft" = trigger an orderly OS shutdown, the same as if
| you executed `shutdown now` on the command line.
|
| "hard" = cut power immediately, as if you just unplugged
| the power cable.
| nani8ot wrote:
| According to Jeff Geerling the Pi 5 doesn't support
| suspend in firmware, altough it might be possible with an
| update.
| JD557 wrote:
| From what I can tell, this is the first version without a
| composite video output, correct?
|
| It's a bit of a shame. What are the alternatives for someone who
| needs a computer connected to an old CRT TV? Are there other
| boards with composite video or does one need to get a
| HDMI->composite converter?
| ChickeNES wrote:
| no connector, but the signal is on the board with solder pads
| avhon1 wrote:
| > We've removed the four-pole composite video and analogue
| audio jack from the board. Composite video, now generated by
| RP1, is still available from a pair of 0.1"-spaced pads on the
| bottom edge of the board.
|
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
| nfriedly wrote:
| A number of vendors seem to only be showing 4GB and 8GB units for
| $60 and $80, but https://vilros.com/collections/raspberry-
| pi-5/products/raspb... has 1GB and 2GB variants for $40 and $50
| respectively.
|
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/ says
| "LPDDR4X-4267 SDRAM (4GB and 8GB SKUs available at launch)" so
| maybe the cheaper ones will be coming at a later date?
|
| Unrelated to that, the addition of a power button seems like a
| significant improvement over previous models.
| rasz wrote:
| Cant wait for first 2 to 8 GB ram swap hack. Power button is
| nice, but implementation in custom PMIC once again means its
| unrepairable https://hackaday.com/2023/03/24/dead-raspberry-pi-
| boards-pmi...
| dustfinger wrote:
| I don't seem to see any mention of video RAM. How much memory
| does the GPU have?
| thamer wrote:
| The VideoCore VII GPU does not have its own VRAM, it's only a
| compute chip. From the Hackster.io review[1]:
|
| > The chip also features a new Broadcom Videocore-VII graphics
| processor running at up to 800MHz, and is linked to the buyer's
| choice of 4GB or 8GB of LPDDR4x memory.
|
| https://www.hackster.io/news/raspberry-pi-5-review-hands-on-...
| tzs wrote:
| I'd like to see an RPi that includes an Arduino (or maybe an
| ESP32) on board, with some way to easily connect things to that
| Arduino's GPIO pins, and with the Arduino programmable and
| controllable from the RPi.
|
| This would let you run things that need real time GPIO access and
| real time interrupt handlings on the Arduino, and would also give
| you DAC and ADC.
| fanf2 wrote:
| The RP1 has two Cortex M3 cores and a PIO core, and is
| responsible for the GPIO pins. So I think it already has
| something close to what you want.
| lonjil wrote:
| I can't find anything about the RP1 online, do you have a
| source?
| fanf2 wrote:
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-
| pi-5/...
|
| There are a good few nuggets of gold from Raspberry Pi
| engineers in the comments on the announcement blog post
| aloer wrote:
| 5v/5A seems weird. Can normal power supplies even deliver this?
| One of the big benefits of rpi has always been to reuse power
| adapters and isn't that all PD standard today?
|
| Higher wattage PD chargers and powerbanks that I have here all
| work with voltages of 9/12/15 at 3A and 20V at up to 5A
| jandrese wrote:
| USB-C chargers do this all the time. People run notebook
| computers off of USB-C.
|
| A quick Google search suggests they aren't hard to find:
|
| https://www.walmart.com/ip/Type-C-Such-Phones-Charger-Charge...
| GeorgeHahn wrote:
| That doesn't fit the bill:
|
| > Output voltage (four charging modes): PDO DC5.0V-3.0A or
| 9.0V-2.77A PPS 3.3-5.9V-3A or 3.3-11.0V-2.24A
|
| 5V output at 5A is pretty unusual.
| stkdump wrote:
| No word on price. When Raspberry Pi first launched, this was the
| prime feature of the thing. Can we expect same price as the
| Raspberry Pi 4? (at the respective RAM level)
|
| Edit: found it here:
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
|
| So the 4 GB model is 60$, which is 5$ more than the 4 GB model of
| the Raspberry 4 when that was launched:
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/raspberry-pi-4-on-sale-now-... .
| I guess that is fair, especially with inflation nowadays. So they
| stay true to the idea of making this available for cheap.
| Archelaos wrote:
| > I guess that is fair, especially with inflation nowadays.
|
| The accumulated inflation in the US since June 2019 is c.
| 17%.[1] This means US$ 55 in June 2019 is "worth" c. US$ 64.35
| today. So it seems that you get a 4GB Raspi 5 for c. 7.25% less
| today.
|
| The "US Real Average Hourly Earnings" have increase by ca. 22%
| in the same period, from US$ 27.75 to US$ 33.82.[2] So an
| average person needs to work c. 12% less to buy a 4GB Raspi 5
| today.
|
| However, I think the issue is more complicated: There is
| inherent deflation in electronics, which is included in the
| inflation rate. you can observe it when looking at the current
| price of a 4GB Raspi 4 at Amazone, which is c. US$ 67. So if
| the introductory price for a Rapsi 5 is really going to be US$
| 60, you get something better for more than 10% less now.
|
| [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-
| infl...
|
| [2]
| https://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/realer_07112019.ht...
| and https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm
| wredue wrote:
| Please stop using "average" for wage comparisons. It's an
| utterly useless metric for showing if wages are moving or
| not.
|
| If you must use average, then you should remove the top 5%
| from the average.
| thereisnojesus wrote:
| no
| reissbaker wrote:
| "Real Average Hourly Earnings" is already an adjusted
| metric to make sure that it's not skewed to the top earners
| (hence why it's called "Real Average" and not just
| "Average"). In the linked post you'll note the following
| explanation of what "Real Hourly Average Earnings" means:
| "Data relate[d] to production employees in mining and
| logging and manufacturing, construction employees in
| construction, and nonsupervisory employees in the service-
| providing industries," which apparently covers roughly 80%
| of private sector jobs in the US.
| mediaman wrote:
| You are right that this metric excludes things like
| capital gains income, and covers just hourly earnings.
|
| "Real", however, refers to it being inflation adjusted,
| not an exclusion of high earners (who are excluded anyway
| because of the hourly earnings metric).
| sapiogram wrote:
| > If you must use average, then you should remove the top
| 5% from the average.
|
| 5% is too arbitrary, just use the median.
| permo-w wrote:
| median is a type of average. the parent commenter means
| the mean
| ryanisnan wrote:
| Is this correct? I know no definition where median can be
| interpreted as an average.
| llbeansandrice wrote:
| It's frequently used in when talking about incomes
| specifically. [0]
|
| > For example, the average personal income is often given
| as the median--the number below which are 50% of personal
| incomes and above which are 50% of personal incomes--
| because the mean would be higher by including personal
| incomes from a few billionaires. For this reason, it is
| recommended to avoid using the word "average" when
| discussing measures of central tendency and specifically
| specify which type of measure of average is being used.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
| adolph wrote:
| Given outliers in a skewed dataset, wouldn't median be a
| worse description than mean without outliers?
|
| https://openstax.org/books/statistics/pages/2-6-skewness-
| and...
| ghufran_syed wrote:
| I think the median works better in this situation because
| the huge population means that both the outliers and the
| skewness have much less effect than they do on the mean.
| The problem with using the mean "without outliers" is
| that you have to make arbitrary decisions about what data
| to exclude as an outlier, unlike with the median.
| sapiogram wrote:
| The answer is always "it depends", which is exactly why I
| prefer the median in most cases. Once you choose to use
| the median, there are no more choices/degrees of freedom
| - it's just the median. On the other hand, "mean without
| outliers" requires you to make a subsequent value
| judgement on what exactly is an "outlier".
| adolph wrote:
| > "mean without outliers" requires you to make a
| subsequent value judgement
|
| Do you think that comparison of outliers to interquartile
| range is not a relatively objective method of determining
| outliers?
|
| _The interquartile range is a number that indicates the
| spread of the middle half, or the middle 50 percent of
| the data. It is the difference between the third quartile
| (Q3) and the first quartile (Q1) . . . The IQR can help
| to determine potential outliers. A value is suspected to
| be a potential outlier if it is less than 1.5 x IQR below
| the first quartile or more than 1.5 x IQR above the third
| quartile. Potential outliers always require further
| investigation._
|
| https://openstax.org/books/statistics/pages/2-3-measures-
| of-...
| wredue wrote:
| 5% is not arbitrary. It is removing massively skewing
| outliers who also see a massive growth outlier compared
| to everyone else.
|
| Looking at wage movement as slices of where one falls
| gives a clearer picture.
|
| Additionally, the reason it doesn't make sense to remove
| low wage outliers while removing high wage outliers for
| average is because the median wage is closer to low wage
| outliers than it is to high wage outliers.
|
| For example, if you take the median and then +- for your
| dataset (if median is 48,000, then use 0 thru 96,000),
| you'll be removing more than just the top 5%, and yet,
| this also gives a far far far better picture of the dire
| economic position and what is happening with real wage
| movement.
| Dah00n wrote:
| Amazon is not a good place to get prices from for a
| comparison. All the enshittification has ruined the prices.
| As it forces prices up outside Amazon too even outside prices
| are not useful. To do a proper comparison that doesn't
| include changes forced by Amazon IMO you need to look at non-
| US non-Amazon non-Amazon-sellers prices and work with those.
| Quite annoying really.
| voytec wrote:
| > No word on price.
|
| They link to multiple regional reseller sites [0], where prices
| are available. I see EUR73.90 (EUR60.08 pre-tax) for the 4GB
| version and EUR97.50 (EUR79.27 pre-tax) for 8GB in Poland.
|
| [0] https://www.raspberrypi.com/resellers/
| martijnvds wrote:
| $60 for the model with 4GB of RAM and $80 for 8GB.
|
| It's mentioned in Eben Upton's blog post (linked from the
| announcement):
|
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| [flagged]
| vor0nwe wrote:
| You're aware that 'they, the fruit sellers' isn't very
| distinctive in this context?
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| Yes it is. Because the other possible reference isn't
| selling even a full device at $200 and they are not at
| all known as the fruit company.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Sure, if you want the raw board and nothing else. I spent
| $100 for a starter kit that had an enclosure and some heat
| sinks. It came with a controller for a retropi installation
| too which was a nice touch.
| stranded22 wrote:
| Engadget has the price at $60 for 4gb and $80 for 8gb.
|
| https://www.engadget.com/the-raspberry-pi-5-uses-the-company...
| schappim wrote:
| Raspberry Pi 5 4GB - US$60.00 (EAN 5056561803319)
|
| Raspberry Pi 5 8GB - US$80.00 (EAN 5056561803326)
| Citizen_Lame wrote:
| Cheaper to buy in the US than the UK.
| UncleSlacky wrote:
| As is tradition.
| SmallDeadGuy wrote:
| It's exactly the same before tax: PS59.30 GBP incl VAT ~=
| PS49.42 GBP excl VAT ~= $60.29 USD
| DrBazza wrote:
| We're not called Treasure Island for nothing.
| asdfbank wrote:
| True, it's called Treasure Island because of all the
| stolen treasure it holds.. but jokes aside (shouldn't be
| a joke) i'm going to have a friend pick up one for me in
| UK and send it over to ZA where pricing is so so much
| worse.
| thereisnojesus wrote:
| Why do people in text attempt to joke, then pull back on
| the joke, making it not a joke and simply wasting time
| with useless banter?
| Y_Y wrote:
| For people like me who enjoy only, and exactly, that.
| lonjil wrote:
| Presumably due to higher taxes on sold goods in the UK?
| alwayslikethis wrote:
| Also just that US sales prices are pre-tax. In states
| with sales tax you will be paying more.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| My gripe is that the original Pi cost $35 at launch and while
| they have made a better Pi...They have not made a Pi at that
| price ever again, even accounting for Inflation. Furthermore,
| increased power consumption and features have added big price
| jumps to the required Accessories. Now you need miniHDMI
| adapters rather than more common HDMI, you need cooling, you
| need more expensive power adapters. a fully set up Pi 1 was
| simple USB, SD, and HDMI All possible in a $50 budget or less
| if you had some stuff. Now you are $90 in to run it.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Do the modern Pi Zeros not compete with the original Pi at a
| stupid low price?
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Not really, the small size adds the need for all kinds of
| adapters to have the same functionality.
| bmurphy1976 wrote:
| The Pi Zero 1 performance is pretty bad and it doesn't
| support 64bit OSes (so no Ubuntu). The Pi Zero 2 looks
| pretty decent for the price, performance should be ok-ish
| and it'll run Ubuntu... if you could actually get one.
| fanf2 wrote:
| Raspberry Pi 4 1GB available to buy for $35
| https://chicagodist.com/collections/raspberry-
| pi/products/ra...
| regularfry wrote:
| I don't see how this is true. $35 in 2012 is roughly $47
| today. You can get a pi zero 2 kit today including the
| adapters, case, and PSU, for $49.95. Just the PSU, which the
| original didn't come with, is worth more than the $3
| difference.
|
| Besides, both the pi 3 and the pi 4 were $35 at launch, so
| they were actually _beating_ inflation when they were
| launched.
| nmz wrote:
| Not to mention it now requires a new PSU. Before you could use
| your standard $5 (android) phone charger at (5W), then you had
| to buy a 15W one and now a 27W.
|
| To whoever thinks pi's are cheap, you can get more
| functionality out of a used laptop for less money, but probably
| worse specs and probably x86.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| But, you really only need the 27W supply if you need to pump
| a lot of power through the USB ports. It'll run just fine
| (even using less power) on the 15W unit with more modest
| loads.
| dang wrote:
| Related ongoing thread:
|
| _Rasperry Pi 5 Specs and Images Leaked from Element14?_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37685073 - Sept 2023 (70
| comments)
| e28eta wrote:
| from the product brief: "Raspberry Pi 5 will remain in production
| until at least January 2035"
|
| I would have guessed that as they move up the performance + power
| curve, such a long production commitment is less interesting for
| most users, but maybe I'm wrong.
|
| I wanted to also include their "increased release cadence" - but
| apparently it's been 4+ years since the Pi 4 was released, it
| just doesn't feel like it to me due to the chip shortage and
| pandemic...
| dwlg00 wrote:
| Damn that's a long time
| pja wrote:
| It's really important for industrial users & RPi has put a lot
| of focus on their commercial customers for some time now.
| lakomen wrote:
| Quanta costa?
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Open source firmware?
| hoherd wrote:
| When the 4 came out, lots of people wished that power + video
| would be provided over the same port, just like we expect with
| almost every modern laptop. Does that exist on the Raspberry Pi
| 5? Hopefully I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like it, which would
| be a shame.
| solarkraft wrote:
| One thing that keeps these SBCs from being super useful and
| differentiates them from x86 computers is I/O. More PCIe lanes
| would've helped here.
|
| But I guess this PCIe connection is at least officially
| accessible rather than being used up by internal adapters?
| snvzz wrote:
| Sadly built on legacy ISA, still ARM instead of the open standard
| RISC-V. They wasted the opportunity to go RISC-V with Pi 5.
|
| I am surprised they still haven't figured out how to accept USB
| power with higher voltage than 5V. It'll thus continue to be a
| pain to power.
|
| Apparently it isn't all that efficient anymore as evident from
| their active cooler add-on.
|
| It looks like the performance will be similar to the incoming
| (was meant for release this summer but seems to be late) new
| SiFive RISC-V development board with P550 CPU.
| surajrmal wrote:
| There are a lot of good reasons to not jump the gun on riscv.
| You're not going to get the same performance for the same price
| point on riscv at the moment. A lot of the existing software
| ecosystem still hasn't been ported over to riscv either.
| robshep wrote:
| Anybody work out how to get audio from the 5?
| fifteen1506 wrote:
| Not going to buy for now but curious if a 16GB RAM version is
| going to exist.
| justusthane wrote:
| Not according to the video. 4 or 8GB.
| trvz wrote:
| From the product page:
|
| > LPDDR4X-4267 SDRAM (4GB and 8GB SKUs available at launch)
|
| This implies there will be either smaller or bigger SKUs at a
| later date. The 8 GB SKU of the Pi 4 wasn't available at
| launch, either.
| sccxy wrote:
| Printed memory options on board: 8G, 4G, 2G, 1G
|
| https://shop.pimoroni.com/cdn/shop/files/PI_5_TOP_1500x1500
| ....
| peteforde wrote:
| It's actually a pretty safe bet that you'll see a 16GB version
| in 2024.
| mikewarot wrote:
| It's sad that a 5 volt powered device can't natively talk to the
| entire world of 5 volt logic peripherals.
| [deleted]
| liminalsunset wrote:
| The fins on the active cooler are the wrong orientation (the fan
| is blowing at the flat sides instead of along it). I'm curious
| why it was designed this way when so much effort was put into
| using a proper 4 pin blower fan and header.
|
| It will probably work fine but it's something you notice just
| like how Dell put the heatsink on the IDRAC card in the R420 the
| wrong way, which would have significant impacts on airflow and
| cooling.
| gholling wrote:
| Because manufacturing... Otherwise you have to CNC the whole
| thing and it makes it really expensive.
| liminalsunset wrote:
| I suppose you have a point. It was probably extruded along
| the fins like this (coming straight in/out of screen):
|
| __|||||||___(fan)____
|
| Then they would have to CNC the edges off to create the
| mounting ears anyway and cut the slots in the fins. I suppose
| they could just make the gaps larger but this is probably
| getting into the details...
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| What is (or would be) the "Tsundoku" equivalent for Raspberry Pi?
|
| I started with Pi-Hole a few years back but ended up with a
| commercial paid DNS resolver. The timeline usually goes like this
| -- will stumble on another interesting video of Jeff Geerling,
| then spend the weekend tinkering with the Pi, keeps running,
| forget about it, found it to be not needed, plugs off and is
| lying around.
|
| [Tsundoku](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsundoku) (Japanese: Ji
| nDu ) is the art of buying books and never reading them.
| bratwurst3000 wrote:
| Hehe I got at least three of every generation and the only one
| I use is a gen3 for music streaming and FIR processing.
| Fnoord wrote:
| Because every machine you use requires maintenance whereas
| NextDNS [1] costs 2 EUR/month. The time wasted on maintenance
| alone is worth more, add to that the electricity bill.
|
| Examples: I also use one with OpenWrt (though I'd prefer
| OPNsense on it), and I use one as PiKVM. I use one with a
| portable HackRF (3D printed case), batteries included. I use
| two with Pimoroni Enviro+, and I have a fun Turing Pi 2
| homelab/miniNAS with 3 CM4s (one Jetson Orin Nano). I got two
| RPi4's one at my mother in law, one at my mother, allowing a
| VPN connection for tech support and also running Jellyfin with
| old content for them.
|
| Personally, I still enjoy my Pi's (and no not all of them are
| on and used 24/7) however I also very much enjoy Proxmox and
| VMs. But the Proxmox machine is a Xeon... (HP MicroServer 10
| Gen 10) the fan is loud af and difficult to replace with say a
| Noctua due to HP ingeniousness.
|
| [1] https://nextdns.io/pricing
| betamist wrote:
| I think it's hard to generalize that into a phenomenon.
|
| I have always bought 2 new raspberry pies with every release.
| I've used some and forgotten, unplugged some, given away some,
| broke some, and now they're all used in some way.
|
| I bought them because I knew I'll use them. I didn't buy any
| other random toys or mini computing devices (even though they
| were alluring) because I knew I wouldn't use them.
|
| There should be a name for the art of making every thing that
| randomly happens to some people into a phenomenon.
| bartvk wrote:
| I dub it "phenomenonization".
|
| I do recognize GP, though. In college, I was obsessed with
| Linux. Nowadays I have a Macbook, and like you, have an Intel
| NUC (running Windows). I really don't need a Raspberry. But
| boy, do I need to resist the urge to get one.
| walteweiss wrote:
| I hadn't enough resources to delve into Linux too much back
| then, and switched to macOS instead. Fast forward 15 years
| and I'm back to Linux and don't enjoy my macOS time any
| longer. Windows, always despised.
| aastronaut wrote:
| I think it should be "The art of buying single-board computers
| and never running them once". I think the "once" is needed in
| the case of computers. They are as machines not directly
| comparable to books...
|
| A book, like any media, fulfilled its initial purpose after it
| has been "consumed" - anything else (looks nice, feels nice,
| smells nice) are physical, subjective qualities attached to it.
| You might even buy it solely for these physical qualities, but
| that's besides the point.
|
| A machine has its purpose in its usage, and that usage requires
| known resources that should not be carelessly wasted. I
| personally buy them to enable a utility for myself and have fun
| discovering it. It fulfilled its initial purpose even if it was
| powered on just once.
|
| Even those single-board computers that were put to "good use",
| as building blocks for new devices (eg. [0]), are still not in
| use the whole time.
|
| [0]: https://www.creativeapplications.net/objects/paragraphica-
| co...
| rewmie wrote:
| > I think it should be "The art of buying single-board
| computers and never running them once". I think the "once" is
| needed in the case of computers. They are as machines not
| directly comparable to books...
|
| I have a few orange pi boards in a drawer that would disagree
| with you.
| topherjaynes wrote:
| hardware equivalent of buying domains for side-projects you
| never do
| exitb wrote:
| "raspberry pile"
| NetOpWibby wrote:
| You're very loud
| msoucy wrote:
| I have no answer to your question, but I'm so glad this word
| exists so that it can call me out and hurt me.
| blowski wrote:
| I have about 10 unused Raspberry Pis, so I collected unused
| monitors as well, and now run a mini code club in my local
| school. The school's laptops are all locked down to the point
| that running Python on them that this was the easiest way to
| provide a Python dev environment.
| walteweiss wrote:
| Why does everyone choose Python for that? Maybe a weird
| question for HN, but I still have no idea.
| blowski wrote:
| In my case at least, it's because Python has a strong
| ecosystem. Everybody's heard of it - parents, kids, and
| teachers. There are lots of good kid-friendly education
| materials.
|
| Of course, that begs the question "how did that ecosystem
| develop in the first place?", but I can't answer that.
| qwertox wrote:
| It's so easy to get started and it goes a long way. From
| "input your name" over servers to machine learning.
|
| It's a very clean language.
| elforce002 wrote:
| They need to deal with manufacturing and availability too. I
| wanted to buy a couple of RPIs to help schools across LATAM and
| it had been a nightmare from pricing to shipping. I'm exploring
| other rpi alternatives since it feels like they don't care
| anymore.
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| This happened a lot sooner than I would have guessed! I thought
| the 4 was gonna get milked for many more years. It'll still be
| around no doubt but the speed bump is appreciated.
|
| Interesting to see the emergence of a southbridge chip in SBC
| land. RPI4 using a Via USB3 controller and a dedicated Broadcom
| ethernet chip is somewhat against the grain of most embedded
| chips, which tend to have all this io on package. Here Broadcom
| now has a single chip that bundles a bunch of the io needs
| together, and takes back the business from Via, which is a
| tailored step forward to combine functions. But it's still a
| secondary chip, which is fairly unusual.
|
| On the upside, it means less pins on the main core. And it
| physically helps fan out the io, can be placed closer to io
| connectors. I went looking for a chip identification for RPI4,
| but didn't find it; I'm curious whether old chips had discrete
| PHY or whether they were builtin, and what the situation is with
| the new southbridge.
| fanf2 wrote:
| Around the start of this year they were saying the Raspberry Pi
| 5 would be released next year, so it's about a quarter or two
| earlier than previously expected.
|
| Part of the reason for the separate IO chip is that it can use
| an older silicon process (40nm) than the main chip (16nm) which
| makes it easier to have robust GPIO pins.
| whizzter wrote:
| If the PCI-e bridge makes PI-powered home-NAS enclosures popular
| it'll probably squeeze the low-end networked NAS market quite a
| bit since they're usually powered by less powerful hardware
| (Arm/Celeron chips with 1-2 gb of mem).
|
| Been looking at some compact/silent replacement for my aging
| home-server and NAS boxes were at the top of the list but the
| CPUs were crap or prices high, and everyone was shipping their
| own weird linux-based distros. Knowing that it'll be likely that
| software will work on a Raspberry and these hardware specs then
| it looks like a contender now.
| pxeger1 wrote:
| Power button included - interesting.
| efitz wrote:
| I really wish they would have just built in PoE+ rather than
| requiring a hat; the hat dramatically reduces the choice of case
| hardware.
|
| Now I want to see what they do with the RPi Zero.
| tjoff wrote:
| RPi zero2 just came out (I know, but you haven't been able to
| buy it until the summer of 2023).
|
| Though it is a massive improvement over the Zero.
| oblio wrote:
| Would this be a good fit for a home media device? Think something
| that would be able to play Netflix 4k on a big screen TV (75").
| phkahler wrote:
| Will it run Wayland?
| foresto wrote:
| > PCIe 2.0 x1 interface for fast peripherals (requires separate
| M.2 HAT or other adapter)
|
| This could make it appealing for a low-power server, like a home
| NAS. In previous models, disk I/O had to be over USB, which
| imposes more CPU load than native SATA, along with various
| unpleasant quirks typical of USB-to-SATA bridges.
|
| Too bad it's only one lane (assuming that's what they mean by
| x1), but I think that's almost enough to saturate a SATA bus, so
| it should nevertheless be useful where NVMe speeds aren't needed.
| I hope it's implemented well.
| nlstitch wrote:
| Only quad core, no 16gb or 32gb ram option and pcie only
| available through a hat (and possibly slower than the usb3 port)?
| I was expecting a bit more to be honest.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| And only 16nm. Imagine what you could do with even a budget
| smartphone chip with modern 5nm tech
| eurekin wrote:
| Same. Went with Odroid HS3+ instead and couldn't be happier
| lynx23 wrote:
| Wow, time is moving fast. I am still happy with my rpi3 as a MPD
| server to feed Sonos with a custom, local audio stream.
| rado wrote:
| Smaller form factor, but same price as a second hand ThinkCentre
| Tiny, a complete, powerful, and extensible PC.
| msoad wrote:
| Why there is no WiFi? Without wireless internet connection it's
| almost useless for me
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| > Dual-band 802.11ac Wi-Fi
| michaeltimo wrote:
| For me the advantage of Raspberry pi was passive cooling without
| worrying about any moving objects and running 24/7. Being
| affordable was another clear advantage. These two does not apply
| here anymore.
|
| I might be wrong but buying a used mini pc like Nuc or SFF PCs
| seems to be more reasonable than buying a 80$ SBC + Case and
| adapter costs.
| fanf2 wrote:
| You can still buy older versions of the Raspberry Pi if you
| don't need the performance of the newer ones.
| rerdavies wrote:
| I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure these are significantly
| more performant than a used mini PC.
| wtcactus wrote:
| I've been trying for almost 1 year, to get a Pi 4 at MRSP and
| it's impossible due to production shortages, but they decided it
| was a good idea to thin even more the production lines with a
| different model.
|
| Sincerely, it seems a very bad idea from their part.
| mlyle wrote:
| > I've been trying for almost 1 year, to get a Pi 4 at MRSP and
| it's impossible due to production shortages
|
| Where are you? Chicago, PiShop, and Digikey have Pi4's at MSRP
| right now in the US, and have had them for most of the last 6
| weeks. Availability in Europe looks even better...
|
| Pi Zero 2W and CM4 are more problematic, but not in the
| category of "wait a year."
| gautamcgoel wrote:
| They say that the silicon was "designed in-house" for the best
| possible performance. What does that mean, exactly? Does it have
| semi-custom ARM cores? That seems unlikely to me.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| The copy feels like they hired ex Apple marketing guys to
| produce that launch page.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Its not the main SOC that was designed in house, it is an I/O
| processor. Which still sounds great. There is much more I/O
| throughput which has plenty of value for me (robotics).
| ralphc wrote:
| I'd like to know if the Pi 4 will still be manufactured. It's
| good enough for my projects and I'm not liking the extra cooling
| that sounds like will be needed.
| Narishma wrote:
| They're still manufacturing models 1, 2 and 3.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| will it be unobtanium?
| rcarmo wrote:
| Their supply chain constraints are mostly gone in Europe - I
| can buy 4s and Zero 2Ws with overnight delivery.
| revanx_ wrote:
| sounds like it's designed to be that way, yes.
| pinkfox wrote:
| I hope not.
|
| It only feels like recently that you can pick up a RPi 4 used
| for the price they should've been new. Otherwise, scalped
| listings on eBay or Amazon have took over. I still want my
| first RPi but I already have associated them with being hard to
| buy and way more expensive than makes sense.
| epx wrote:
| I want a dirt-cheap Zero (if possible one that does not need an
| SD card), not something that tries unsuccesfully displace a NUC
| :(
| revanx_ wrote:
| They announce the product but you can't even pre-order it, a
| typical pi experience.
| m_t wrote:
| I can pre order on the Pi Hut right now if that website is
| available to you.
| kotaKat wrote:
| ... They really love being in charge of the cabal that sells HDMI
| dongles, don't they? Mini/microHDMI are terrible for video and
| just not mechanically robust. :\
| goombacloud wrote:
| Does this finally have UEFI by default?
| birracerveza wrote:
| This seems promising, hopefully it's not literal hot garbage like
| the 4.
|
| I loved the 3, but the 4 overheated even after patching it and
| using a dissipator for basically every workload...
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| Only OpenGL ES is disappointing. ARM's Mali Panfrost drivers get
| full desktop OpenGL, so do Snapdragon GPUs. Hopefully they
| implement enough of Vulkan for Zink.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| I fundamentally have issues with Raspberry Pi brand. It markets
| itself as a "open source" company but it is anything but. Sure
| you can get pcb files, but the real stuff is the binary blobs for
| qualcomm processors. None of that stuff is open source. You can't
| get a datasheet for it.
|
| So you've got a company that is taking advantage of OSS
| ecosystem's reputation but returning nothing back.
|
| Treat it like any other company and I'm fine with it. Happy to
| buy their computers. Just like I'm fine with OpenAI admitting
| they're anything but "Open". Just be honest ffs.
| kanwisher wrote:
| All their software and documentation is open source. The only
| closed source bits are stuff they don't control from Broadcom.
| They are easily one of the best SBCs for documentation and
| continued linux support over time, you can use 5 year old
| boards with latest kernels
| nsteel wrote:
| I don't think it does market itself that way.
|
| People seem to think it does, and want it, but I don't see that
| claim (or even the words "open source") on either the trading
| company or the charity About Us pages. Plenty of companies use
| OSS, nothing wrong with that. The idea they've returned nothing
| back is misplaced.
| asddubs wrote:
| I would love to see a more side by side comparison of specs. 2-3x
| times the speed pretty good though. The raspi 4 was just on the
| cusp of being usable as a main computer, I wonder how good this
| will be.
| Narishma wrote:
| > The raspi 4 was just on the cusp of being usable as a main
| computer, I wonder how good this will be.
|
| Don't worry, software developers are on it. Soon the Pi 5 will
| also be on the cusp of being usable as a main computer.
| badtension wrote:
| What? Software getting slower faster than hardware getting
| faster? Impossible!
| phoyd wrote:
| Pi5 is already on Geekbench. Speed seemed to be on the ballpark
| of a mobile Intel i5 dual core 4xxx IIRC.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| > raspi 4 was just on the cusp of being usable as a main
| computer
|
| I use a Pi 400 (running Debian) as my primary dev box and
| access terminal to the Internet. ^_^
|
| It definitely works for me, but I fear that you will next tell
| us that you need to run software that isn't compiled for ARM
| (e.g. Adobe graphics suite) or to connect some specific
| hardware, such as a centrifuge that works only with Windows
| drivers.
|
| Cheers!
| schappim wrote:
| I've used one in person. I would say that it has crossed the
| threashold. I've only played w/ it using a microSD card. Whilst
| the microSD card slot now has support for high-speed SDR104
| mode (roughly twice as fast as the Pi4), I can only imagine
| that speeds will increase when connecting SSDs via PCIe.
|
| They like to use JS benchmarking to do this. I forgot which
| exact benchmark they usesed (sorry)! The RPI4 was benchmarking
| ~50, the PI5 was scoring about ~130. They were saying the RPI5
| was scoring equivalent to a 2015 MacBook Air.
| lukeholder wrote:
| Jeff Geerling rundown:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBtOEmUqASQ
| pluto_modadic wrote:
| unfortunate about his political stances. Such a nice technical
| mind with such backwards views about women. :/
| rgovostes wrote:
| There's also a writeup:
| https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/testing-pcie-on-raspb...
| geerlingguy wrote:
| And a bunch more test data:
| https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-reviews/issues/21
| (includes some notes on power consumption, etc.)
| MikusR wrote:
| I wish you could add Syncthing Hashrate. It's logged on
| startup.
|
| Single thread SHA256 performance is 64 MB/s using
| crypto/sha256 (64 MB/s using minio/sha256-simd). Hashing
| performance is 56.63 MB/s
|
| Thats on Raspberry Pi 400.
| 1-6 wrote:
| At this point, Alder Lakes like N100 processors and multiple sff
| computers have dominated the market while RPI struggled with the
| supply chain. now there are multiple clones as well. I'm not sure
| if The Pi5 will ever reach former glory days.
| [deleted]
| cptskippy wrote:
| Doh! I was just able to purchase my first Pi4 this month!
| doomemax wrote:
| Depending on the project, a Pi 4 might still be the better
| option! What are you planning on using it for?
| Havoc wrote:
| Nice to see a new generation but frankly a little underwhelmed.
| I'd rather spend more for an orange pi plus. Different price
| class but worth it here. Integrated M2, 16gb ram, newer processor
| node, and much higher scores on benchmarks
| johndmcmaster wrote:
| Now I need a BCM2712 to decap :)
| bastard_op wrote:
| I suspect the speculator and reseller markets are already abuzz
| with figuring out how to stockpile and control the distribution
| like they did during the pandemic and various video game
| releases. This ought to be fun to watch.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| Were there any issues with the first wave of Pi 4 that would make
| it a smart move to hold off on ordering one for a few months?
| [deleted]
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| I remember them leaving out some resistors for the USB C port
| that were needed for some chargers or cables. Wasn't too big a
| deal if you just used their official power supplies.
|
| https://www.scorpia.co.uk/2019/06/28/pi4-not-working-with-so...
| dingi wrote:
| I don't see any good reason to buy raspberry pi over something
| like this mini pc[1] anymore. For $100ish, you get 8g RAM/256g
| nvme/intel N95. Not mention the wonderful software support.
|
| 1. https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt4AHVM
| akmittal wrote:
| > 4Kp60 HEVC decoder
|
| This is game changer as TV box.
| Tepix wrote:
| There have been good cheap options for TV boxes for quite a
| while (the Amlogic S905 was released in 2014). They were game
| changers back then.
|
| That said, LibreElec has been beta testing the RPi5 and will
| support it. Dev images are ready:
| https://libreelec.tv/2023/09/28/rpi5-support/
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| The Pi4 can already play 4k24 HEVC. There isn't a lot of 4K
| video content with a higher frame rate.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Good point H265 support is badly needed these days
| thomasfl wrote:
| Watching the video, is like seeing a commercial for a PC many
| years ago. Only differences is the Raspberry's tiny size, small
| price and the few thousand times faster processor.
| datadeft wrote:
| Active cooling is not an option for me. I use RPI exactly for the
| reason it does not require active cooling.
| lonjil wrote:
| It's more energy efficient than the RPi4, so you should be fine
| if you're doing fine with any of their older products?
| TheChaplain wrote:
| But it says that active cooling is only necessary for heavy
| workload, if you're fine with that then no fan required.
| Redoubts wrote:
| sure, but why pay money for functionality you're just gonna
| turn off (components, higher clock speed)
| wpm wrote:
| Phoronix tested the Pi 5 with and without the official
| heatsink, and without it peaked at around 90C (same temp my
| Intel Mac Mini from 2018 likes to hover around) and never
| throttled during benchmarks. You don't need to downclock,
| undervolt, or turn anything off to run fanless.
| technocrat8080 wrote:
| There goes building somewhat featureful toy kernels for your RPi
| lproven wrote:
| ... Why?
| rajnathani wrote:
| There's no NPU in it? That's really surprising, I mean nowadays
| even Arm offers NPU IP via Ethos.
| chubs wrote:
| It's ARM with quad A76 cores. I was curious up until this
| announcement to see if they'd ever release a RISCV raspberry pi.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| I asked Eben about that in an interview earlier this year, and
| the answer is "probably not too soon" -- RISC-V has a lot of
| designs available, but most have been in the lower-end
| 'efficiency' class compared to cores like A76 (which the Pi 5
| uses) and Neoverse, which are a lot faster.
|
| But tech progresses on... never say never.
| brucehoult wrote:
| A76-class RISC-V cores have been available to license since
| June 2021, and boards with them will be arriving in H1 next
| year.
| bloopernova wrote:
| Is there a specification comparison between the pi 4 and 5? I
| didn't see one on the linked site.
| keyle wrote:
| That would be useful. The video has some claims in it but no
| clear table.
| MarcScott wrote:
| This has some benchmark graphs after the first page -
| https://www.phoronix.com/review/raspberry-pi-5-benchmarks
| zuhsetaqi wrote:
| So a Raspberry Pi 27W USB-C Power Supply and they also showing an
| active cooler. Seems like this thing is running even hotter than
| the previous version.
|
| Btw am I the only one who hates to buy their power supply because
| the USB-C cable is not removable?
| 0x073 wrote:
| All laptop power supply with USB c have non removable USB c
| cables.
|
| Probably that no one can blame them for burning or low power
| with third party cables.
| zweifuss wrote:
| My Huawei 65W adapter has a detachable USB-C cable. Came with
| a laptop.
| gempir wrote:
| Ironically Apple uses detachable USB C Cable on their power
| supplies for their Macbooks
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| .. and their iPads (which is a better size for something
| like a Pi 4/5)
|
| In fact, all of our USB-C power supplies around the house
| are Apple - Chromebooks, Thinkpads, etc. They don't break
| and the cables are detachable; whenever the junk that
| originally came with the device breaks, the Apple ones we
| have laying around are there to just work.
|
| The small ones don't even have an Apple logo that you can
| see when plugged in, so if the idea of using Apple products
| bother you then go ahead and paint it, plug it in, and
| forget about it for a decade.
| moreati wrote:
| Most or many, but not all. Apple Macbook supplies are a
| counterexample, e.g.
| https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MX0J2B/A/96w-usb-c-
| pow...
| black3r wrote:
| not all, for example apple's macbook power supplies have
| removable USB-C cables
| nfriedly wrote:
| Damn, even Raspberry Pi removed the headphones jack!
| spacechild1 wrote:
| To be fair, the analog output of the RPi delivers a crappy low-
| pass filtered 11-bit PWM signal. Even the cheapest USB audio
| adapter will give you a better signal. (Personally, I have been
| quite happy with https://www.pollin.at/p/logilink-
| usb-2-0-5-1-audiocontroller...)
| garaetjjte wrote:
| They implemented sigma-delta driver on VPU few years back:
| https://forums.raspberrypi.com//viewtopic.php?f=29&t=195178
| spacechild1 wrote:
| Thanks, I didn't know that!
| nfriedly wrote:
| Yeah, you're not wrong. I more disappointment with the
| general trend rather than this specific instance; phones and
| tablets are where I miss it the most.
|
| With Raspberry Pi's specifically, although I have used the
| headphones jack to connect speakers, I generally use either
| HDMI audio, or else I just don't have any audio connected.
| raytopia wrote:
| I've had this idea for a while now but what if someone built a
| game console based on the Pi hardware?
|
| I know lots of people use their pi's for retro gaming but I'd
| really like to see some new games made for the hardware.
|
| Does anyone know if there's a group working on this or would be
| interested in creating one?
| Narishma wrote:
| I feel like the GPU on the Pi is pretty weak. It was fine in
| the first model, but they haven't improved it much in
| subsequent versions compared to the CPU.
| bodge5000 wrote:
| It's a really nice idea, I've had similar thoughts myself, but
| sadly (and strangely) I actually think the Pi is too powerful.
| PICO-8 and similar works so well because the limitations are
| severe, 3D is a massive technical achievement on those systems,
| whereas the RPI can run Minecraft (to my knowledge) without too
| much issue. It puts it in this odd space where it can do too
| much to bring game development back to a simpler time, but not
| enough to make it an actual market.
|
| Aside from that, it'd suffer from all the same problems as PC
| gaming does; different monitors to account for, no standard
| input method, varying specs between models, etc...
|
| I could see it working, it's just got more issues to account
| for than other fantasy consoles
| ketralnis wrote:
| The Pi is an ARM chip on a board with I/O for HDMI etc. There
| are plenty of ARM game consoles including the Nintendo Switch
| mattherman wrote:
| You can run PICO-8 on a Raspberry Pi today. Still a "retro"
| feel, but they are all new games being written for the
| platform. https://www.lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=3085
| reedlaw wrote:
| It would likely be similar to gaming on Linux but with the
| limitations of ARM-only and OpenGL ES 3.1 or Vulkan 1.2. [1]
|
| What would be more interesting is an open source micro-kernel
| and gaming SDK targeting Raspberry Pi.
|
| 1. See
| https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Linux_ARM_games
| pjerem wrote:
| I hope they'll reiterate the computer in keyboard form factor (pi
| 400). My son is 6 and is learning to read and the pi 400 looks
| like a perfect first computer.
| maxmalkav wrote:
| I really like the form factor, if only there would be some off-
| the-shelf options for a mechanical keyboard version ..
|
| I know there are plenty DIY projects for this (and the
| cyberdeck scene is a rabbit hole that I do not dare to go
| down), but it would be nice something more easily available.
| fanf2 wrote:
| Yeah the 400 made it difficult to fit a replacement keyboard.
| It will be really nice if the 500 has an RP2040 for the
| keyboard controller instead of the fixed function Holtek
| thing in the 400. Then the keyboard FPC connector would be a
| second secret GPIO bank :-)
| 72deluxe wrote:
| The Pi400 would be a perfect first computer. It runs faster
| than the Pi4 and doesn't get hot due to the colossal copper
| heat spreader inside it.
|
| It really is a BBC B modern equivalent.
| fanf2 wrote:
| The Raspberry Pi 4 has been upgraded to run at the same speed
| as the 400, from 1.5GHz to 1.8GHz
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-
| pi-4-model-b/...
| birracerveza wrote:
| The Amiga 500, then 30 years later, the Raspberry 500.
|
| I'd buy one. Probably more.
| dougmwne wrote:
| I think it's notable that the chip powering the RP5 is built on a
| 16nm process. (The RP4 was on 26nm).
|
| This is a nearly 10 year old manufacturing process and it's silly
| to compare the performance per watt to any Intel or Arm chip on
| the market today. On such an old node, it's not surprising that
| the power draw is so high. Of course an M2 would smoke a RP5 at a
| much lower power. But the RP5 is 60 bucks!
| moffkalast wrote:
| Side note, lowering the process means smaller wires and more
| susceptibility to ESD. I've never vacuumed a Pi 4, but also
| haven't lost any to it in countless sketchy mounting points.
| That might change on the 5, GPUs built on 10 nm and lower just
| die if you touch them wrong.
| bmicraft wrote:
| GPIO is now connected to the RP1 I/O controller which is on a
| 40nm process, so that should actually be an improvement
| fulafel wrote:
| You'd be surprised how low-end the average chip with ARM
| core(s) is.
| TheMode wrote:
| Is there any high end 5/7nm SBC? Phone chips don't seem to
| escape the phone market.
| ac29 wrote:
| Alder Lake N (N95, N100, etc) is built on a 7nm class
| process. Many of those systems could be considered SBCs
| (SoC/RAM/Storage is often all on a single board). Those CPUs
| are low end for x86, but much higher end than a typical ARM
| based SBC.
| Matsta wrote:
| Rockchip's rk3588 is on 8nm: https://www.cnx-
| software.com/2021/12/16/rockchip-rk3588-data...
| spatular wrote:
| Orange Pi 5, "plus" version also has 2gen 1-lane pci-e (M.2
| wifi), and 3gen 4-lane pci-e (M.2 SSD) and 2x2.5Gbit
| ethernet.
|
| 8nm, pretty power efficient. I've measured it to run at
| 0.7A@5V idle and 1.2A@5V with all 8 cores loaded with md5sum
| /dev/zero; iirc it had 1 ethernet connected, no other
| periphery. Running on Armbian.
| doubled112 wrote:
| I have the non-plus and have been pretty happy with it.
|
| A lot more computing power than the Pi 4 and older home
| server it replaced. The M.2 slot was an absolute game
| changer. Real onboard storage is a must.
|
| It runs a few low resource VMs in the garage and I almost
| completely forget it exists.
| pbronez wrote:
| How is the software support? That's the main thing
| keeping me on rPi. I tried Pine64 and it was terrible.
| Never could get my PineBook Pro to boot reliably.
| doubled112 wrote:
| There are always little things. As far as I know, desktop
| works pretty well and there are people running PS2
| emulation on it, which has always been super heavy.
|
| arm64 has come a long way for that use case.
|
| It's been solid as the VM host so far. I wrote an Armbian
| SD card and it just worked. Once a VM is booted though,
| many things become irrelevant outside of arm64 support.
|
| I haven't tried again since February, so there's a decent
| chance my issues are fixed, but ZFS wouldn't build and
| VLAN support was disabled for the NIC. Not blockers, but
| it did make me rethink some ideas I had.
| johncole wrote:
| Their real problem has been supply chain. Custom silicon doesn't
| seem to be heading in the right direction.
| mkj wrote:
| The rp2040 was their first foray into custom silicon and has
| been completely unaffected by supply chain issues. In that case
| they ordered 10 million chip dies (dice?), I guess it might be
| similar here.
|
| https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-10-million-rp...
| Zuiii wrote:
| I'm tired of information being vague, under-specified, or only
| available under NDA (if you're lucky). I'm not stupid enough to
| hop on this ride again.
|
| Are there any fully open (in terms of schematics, firmware) RISCV
| rpi-"compatibles" out there? I'd be happy to pay triple the price
| of this thing for a power-efficient linux-capable sbc that is
| open.
| dragontamer wrote:
| Beaglebone (from Texas Instruments) is more open, but still not
| as open as you'd probably like. Still, its a better balance
| than what Rasp. Pi organization has (more documents are
| available on AM335x, open-hardware for Beaglebone Green and
| reference designs, full chip specifications and the like).
| Beaglebone isn't really "more expensive", as much as its just
| "lower specs at the same price" though.
|
| The "most open" are MPU chips and their associated "System on
| Module" boards. This isn't quite a SBC, but its easier to use
| than a BGA. These SoMs are very poor from price/performance
| perspectives, but instead serve as reference designs and/or
| prototypes to the $8 or $9 chips. The overall expectation is
| that you're "supposed" to be building your own PCBs eventually,
| so the SoM are kind of just a prototyping aid.
|
| Most SoM provide 100+ pins from the chip as well, meaning you
| absolutely have to build a PCB to use them. However, 2-layer
| boards solder very easily to a SoM with castilliated edges
| (even with a hand-soldering iron)... albeit with a bit of flux
| and technique and practice. Its just the easiest way to deliver
| the most-pins of customization in the smallest space. So a
| relative beginer should be able to boot an SoM. The most
| difficult routing and Power-Delivery-Network details are
| already solved on an SoM, you just gotta apply power and build
| out the final interfaces / connectors.
|
| Take the ATSAMA5D27-SOM1, 104-pins in a 40x40mm form factor.
| $50 from Mouser for 500Mhz and 128MB RAM (though fully open
| source and fully documented at linux4sam, and processor manual,
| U-boot process and everything). But the underlying SiP (MPU +
| DDR2 RAM) is like $15... while the MPU alone is like $8 and
| 128MB of DDR2 RAM is only like $3.50 in practice. Since in
| mass-production, you'd probably have a custom PCB anyway,
| that's the most expected use case.
| https://www.linux4sam.org/bin/view/Linux4SAM . I'd say that
| Microchip / Atmel's MPUs seem to be the best documented that
| I've found, but are unfortunately the lowest specs. Still, they
| also have some of the lowest power-consumption (like 200 mW or
| something), so really they're in a low-power class of their
| own. Still Linux though.
|
| ------------
|
| STM32MP1 is the MPU from ST Micro. Like the Microchip SAM-MPU
| series, the STM32MP1 is available in SOM, SiP, and "raw" MPU
| form. Except the SOMs are like $100+, the SiP is like $50+,
| while MPU is $10ish.
|
| -------------
|
| I know NXP has a huge line of MPUs. I haven't researched them
| yet though.
|
| ---------------
|
| I think all the hardware designers at this level just "assume"
| that their customers, if they care about "open source", are
| probably making their own PCBs.
|
| If someone "just" wants a SBC (like the Rasp. Pi), there's not
| much point in publishing a ton of documents. People can just
| boot the Rasp. Pi and start messing with Linux.
|
| -------
|
| I got no experience with this yet. I'm just curious and am
| thinking of a simple MPU layout project ever since I discovered
| that OSHPark has 6-layer boards and KiCAD supports BGAs in
| practice. Overall, these lower-power lower-end MPUs fill a
| different niche than a Rasp. Pi ever would. But I feel like
| there's enough overlap that these might scratch your "open
| source" and "fully documented" itches.
| m463 wrote:
| I always thought the beaglebone had a better hardware design.
| The thing I first noticed was the female header pins - why
| would the pi have pins that can be shorted out?
|
| the beaglebone pru is cool too.
|
| But all of that pales in comparison to the huge mindshare the
| pi has, which makes all the difference.
| dragontamer wrote:
| Maybe, maybe not.
|
| RP4 doesn't have LoRA like the Beaglebone Play. 3mile / 5km
| radios can do many things that RP can never do.
| RetroTechie wrote:
| Any board based on StarFive's JH7110 is currently best in this
| regard, I think. Datasheet & reference manual for this SoC is
| available.
|
| Especially their VisionFive 2 board. I've even downloaded a
| schematic for it (although older revision than actual board I
| have). And they're pretty good about upstreaming drivers.
|
| That said: what you probably care about is documentation for
| integrated peripherals (esp. GPU), and existence of open
| source, mature drivers for those.
|
| RPi is _very_ good in this regard. Afaik the only binary blobs
| there is some GPU /SoC firmware, and (maybe) some boot code.
|
| RPi's in general are very well supported & documented, and its
| software ecosystem is very mature compared to anything RISC-V
| based.
|
| Could you pinpoint what you think is lacking there?
|
| Other ARM based boards may offer more bang/$. Likely at the
| cost of documentation or driver support (Beagleboard being an
| exception).
| schappim wrote:
| I was lucky enough to get early access to the Pi5[1]. I'd be
| happy to answer any questions you may have.
|
| [1] Youtube Video on the RPi 5:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_QPM9xV_sw
| keyle wrote:
| Excellent work!
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| How's the USB-C port on it? Is it still limited to USB 2.0? I
| want USB 3.0 for OTG (usb client) uses.
| fanf2 wrote:
| The USB-C port is still USB2 like the Raspberry Pi 4. Both
| the 4 and the 5 support OTG over the USB-C port.
| trvz wrote:
| Could you please run the Geekbench 6 [1] benchmark and report
| the results?
|
| [1]: https://cdn.geekbench.com/Geekbench-6.2.0-LinuxARMPrevie
| w.ta...
| geerlingguy wrote:
| See: https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-reviews/issues/21
|
| 748 single / 1507 multi
| peteforde wrote:
| Genuinely curious: why does their announcement upset you so
| much?
|
| Most of the tech world announces products, executes a marketing
| strategy and then releases stock into the market.
|
| You make it sound like someone left you standing at the altar.
| You didn't know it existed an hour ago. If you were on a long
| vacation, it might have released before your return. Why get
| angry?
| johnchristopher wrote:
| Scalpers want to know if it's worth it to order en masse so
| they need more specs to feel the market ? _shrugs_
| Zuiii wrote:
| > why does their announcement upset you so much?
|
| Why do you assume this specific announcement is what upset
| me? Why do you assume this has anything to do with their
| product marketing strategy? Why do you assume I wouldn't have
| gotten angry even after they released the product?
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Perhaps something from pine64?
| foggywin wrote:
| What do you mean with vague information? There is an entire
| blog post describing the product:
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
| iamtedd wrote:
| This is pretty bad:
|
| "Does Raspberry Pi 5 need active cooling?
|
| "Raspberry Pi 5 is faster and more powerful than prior-
| generation Raspberry Pis, and like most general-purpose
| computers, it will perform best with active cooling. The
| Raspberry Pi Case for Raspberry Pi 5, with its integrated
| fan, is one way to provide this."
|
| They pose a question themselves, and don't even answer it. Of
| course something will perform best with active cooling. Does
| it _need_ it?
|
| I don't need this wishy-washy marketing language from
| Raspberry Pi.
| epolanski wrote:
| It literally tells you that you don't need cooling, but if
| you add it you'll get more performance.
|
| I don't find it hard to understand what this means: the soc
| limits it's core performance based on thermal conditions
| and will throttle when hitting limit temperature. That's
| standard behavior on every computer or smartphone or GPU
| out there.
|
| Make temperature lower and it will clock and run at higher
| speeds without throttling.
| joefarish wrote:
| I think they answer your question in the PSU section
| "Raspberry Pi 5 consumes significantly less power, and runs
| significantly cooler, than Raspberry Pi 4 when running an
| identical workload."
| dragontamer wrote:
| That's not documentation of any reasonable level though.
|
| An MPU designer expects to see something like "200mA draw
| from the 1.2V power-domain when running at 400 MHz" or
| "10mA draw from the 1.2V power-domain when in first level
| of sleep". (Maybe not this small since Rasp. Pi is a more
| powerful chip, but... you know... actual specifics).
| iamtedd wrote:
| Not on the linked page.
|
| "Will my Raspberry Pi 4 power supply work with Raspberry
| Pi 5?
|
| "Raspberry Pi 5 is a higher-performance computer than
| Raspberry Pi 4, and you may have problems using an under-
| powered supply. We recommend a high-quality 5W 5A USB-C
| power supply, such as the new Raspberry Pi 27W USB-C
| Power Supply."
|
| The question asks about power requirements, but the
| answer is about performance?
|
| The first time I read that I thought the 5 needs _more_
| power than the 4, not less.
| weebull wrote:
| > we recommend a 5w PSU like our new 27W PSU
|
| Ermmm, what?
| marcosdumay wrote:
| It's clearly a typo, and should be 5V.
|
| But then you get 5V 5A ... 27W that is clearly incorrect
| too. So my guess is nobody is proofreading the technical
| specifications, and everybody that cares was kept away
| from that page.
| pja wrote:
| It's a typo: They mean 5A I think.
| wiz21c wrote:
| I think the question is actually: "can I safely (like
| it's not going to melt or catch fire) use the RPI5 under
| any load without active cooling) ?".
| mlyle wrote:
| Sure, you can.
|
| If you frequently work it really hard, it'll have larger
| temperature swings and may fail earlier, but it'll still
| probably last quite awhile. The failure is not likely to
| be catching on fire.
| jrockway wrote:
| It depends on what "need" means. I'm pretty sure you can
| take a 400W TDP Threadripper and run it without active
| cooling. It will throttle down to run at whatever speed
| (well, TDP) that doesn't fry it. The Raspberry Pi does the
| same thing.
|
| If your goal is to get the highest score on every
| benchmark, then yeah, you need active cooling. That has
| been true on every Raspberry Pi, I think. (I don't remember
| if the 1 needed active cooling. I did not have any. I also
| remember it taking over a day to recompile Linux! Still
| faster than setting up a cross compiler at the time ;)
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Threadrippers use 50W+ at idle, so no, it won't just
| "throttle down"
| jrockway wrote:
| Mine uses about 80, but yeah, you can get rid of 80W
| passively. Consider a 100 watt incandescent light bulb;
| no fan!
| waterhouse wrote:
| And how hot does the bulb get? Googling yields "The
| surface temperature of incandescent light bulbs varies
| from 150 to more than 250 degrees"
| (https://www.pacificlamp.com/temperature-of-a-100-watt-
| bulb.a...). Which, googling says, is likely hot enough to
| damage a CPU.
| efitz wrote:
| I hate it when someone answers a yes/no question with
| something other than yes or no.
|
| Here's my proposed edit:
|
| Q: "Does Raspberry Pi 5 need active cooling?
|
| Original A: "Raspberry Pi 5 is faster and more powerful
| than prior-generation Raspberry Pis..."
|
| Better A: "For modest workloads, no. For heavier workloads,
| you will get better performance with active cooling.
| Raspberry Pi 5 is faster and more powerful than prior-
| generation Raspberry Pis..."
| justin66 wrote:
| Who hurt you?
| mlyle wrote:
| The answer is nuanced. It can run workloads somewhat faster
| and cooler than Pi 4 without active cooling. But it also
| can't reach close to its peak performance without active
| cooling.
| iamtedd wrote:
| Your answer is more direct and uses fewer words. Can you
| help them fix their product page?
| nsteel wrote:
| Should we get Intel and AMD to clarify their product
| pages at the same time?
| noizejoy wrote:
| Haha - and while we're at it, might as well start putting
| labels on Apple's performance graph slides :-)
| mlyle wrote:
| Probably not ;)
|
| The actual info I'd rely upon at this point:
|
| https://www.phoronix.com/benchmark/result/raspberry-
| pi-5-coo...
|
| pi5 with active cooler is about 1.2-1.5x faster than pi5
| without cooler for most workloads that care than without.
|
| Pi5 with active cooler is about 2-2.5x faster than Pi4.
| So Pi5 without cooler is probably about 1.5x faster than
| pi4, depending upon workload. (And more than this for
| quick bursts where thermal mass wins).
| darkclouds wrote:
| And if you dont have a heatsink and fan of sorts just use
| alternativing fingers on the cpu, they can still absorb
| about 10-15 DegC off the cpu temp and thats overclocking
| a 3b in the 1.35Ghz range. Surprisingly robust. Sadly
| cant get it to idle below .6Ghz yet, that needs more
| work.
|
| But it makes wonder how much more phone manufacturers
| could squeeze out of their phones, although Apple are
| definately overclocking the 15.
| hgomersall wrote:
| Does that mean for the same load the power requirements
| of the pi5 are lower than the pi4?
| mlyle wrote:
| Yes, that's what they directly claim. Phoronix's
| measurements seem to (indirectly) bear this out.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37686214
|
| "The combination of a newer core, a higher clock speed,
| and a smaller process geometry yields a much faster
| Raspberry Pi, and one that consumes much less power for a
| given workload."
| tpmx wrote:
| "peak power consumption increases to around 12W, versus 8W
| for Raspberry Pi 4"
|
| A beefy heatsink case should be able to handle that.
| m463 wrote:
| requiring cooling limits the use case. (remember, they've
| sold > 30 million of them)
|
| I'm pretty sure what it means is that kids who use the pi
| on their desk don't need to spend on a cooler. It will
| probably throttle and run slower.
|
| Meanwhile an adult using the pi could put on a cooler and
| wring lots of performance out of it.
| M4v3R wrote:
| Are we reading the same blog post? The post that parent
| posted literally reads:
|
| > "Raspberry Pi 5 has been designed to handle typical
| client workloads, uncased, with no active cooling".
| iamtedd wrote:
| No, I'm reading the posted product page. Where all the
| important, _technical_ (considering the product)
| information should be.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| 'uncased', which is the problem with many boards for the
| hobbyist market, from compute to sensors.
|
| IMHO, uncased means you're doing maintenance or it's a
| toy, but it's not a 'production' configuration.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| They can't tell you how the board will behave on any
| random case you decide to put it on.
|
| The uncased requirement is exactly what I'd expect to see
| there. Other than that, only if they decide to get really
| technical (they should) and tell you dissipating power /
| degC and temperature limits.
| rsaxvc wrote:
| Says h265 decode, but nothing about h264. Does VC7 do h264
| like VC6, or not at all?
| glimshe wrote:
| Rasbperry Pis are losing their competitive edge for non-embedded
| applications to sub $150 mini PCs, which support Linux/Windows
| and will come with enclosure, NVMe slot, power button etc. The
| mini PCs are also generally much faster.
| serf wrote:
| hardware consistency and gpio are pretty big factors.
|
| rpi as a compute/media node has always sort of been secondary
| compared to the software/hat ecosystem -- there have
| essentially always been better SBC choices for those
| workloads/media-center-ing.
|
| personally if I wanted a media-center/nas/small-server i'd go
| with one of the dozens of SBCs that have onboard sata and save
| myself the hassle of doing it all over an overloaded usb hub.
| zrail wrote:
| GPIO is doable on a mini PC. For example, there are Raspberry
| Pi Pico firmwares out there that present as a normal
| gpiochip. I recently set up a pico with 3D printer firmware
| (Klipper, specifically) so I could control power to my actual
| printer, which actually works surprisingly well.
| ranting-moth wrote:
| Interesting. Do you have any links for mini PCs like that?
| NegativeK wrote:
| Look for Servethehome's Tiny Mini Micro content.
| tracker1 wrote:
| Current Gen Intel are M100... N200 and N305 ... search for
| that plus mini PC. Older gens will have less expensive models
| around.
|
| I used several while rpi supplies slowed and scalping had
| prices where it was the better option. Around $200-250 USD or
| so. But comes with memory, storage, case and power supply.
| intrasight wrote:
| I see Minisforum mentioned frequently. A couple of examples
|
| https://store.minisforum.com/collections/amd-%C2%AE-
| ryzen-%C...
|
| https://store.minisforum.com/collections/amd-%C2%AE-
| ryzen-%C...
|
| I do think these make more sense for most people. But I'll
| for sure be getting a Pi 5. I sold all my Pi 3 and 4 during
| the pandemic since I wasn't using them.
| bufferoverflow wrote:
| These are $250 and $300+
| intrasight wrote:
| Yes. That's what is the cost for a complete mini PC.
| Barebones are cheaper. $189.00
| tetris11 wrote:
| 19V at 3x the cost, compared to the Pi5's 5V at $60
| sambazi wrote:
| imho pi's market segment is clearly nerding, tinkering and low-
| power gpio-adapter. using them as media-pc, router or even
| desktop is an exercise.
| 542458 wrote:
| I don't think that's the only reason to use one. They also
| have value as a well known and well supported hardware target
| even in cases where the GPIOs aren't needed. For example, the
| hobby 3D printer community uses them extensively for things
| like Octoprint where the GPIOs aren't needed - but the Pi
| continues to be much more popular than other options because
| it's very well supported. A user doesn't need to figure out
| any CLI magic to get things to work, they can just grab a
| pre-made SD card image and go to town. And if they do have a
| problem, it'll probably be the same problem that a few
| thousand other people have had, so solutions will be well
| documented.
| sambazi wrote:
| > They also have value as a well known and well supported
| hardware target even in cases where the GPIOs aren't needed
|
| true, there are cases, but "well known" and "well
| supported" is the point i tried to make in favor of
| enterprise thin-clients and the like as they are pc's and
| run most commodity operating systems and applications.
|
| > hobby 3D printer community uses them extensively
|
| i'm sure they are (literally)
| zihotki wrote:
| They'll probably come back soon after burning a few fingers due
| to lack of proper drivers and support.
| irusensei wrote:
| That's true as long as you don't mind using modified vendor
| supplied operating systems. Most of these advanced boards will
| lock you into some patched Ubuntu version.
|
| So far from the ones I've worked only the Pi and a patched
| Rockpro64 allows you to boot some generic USB installer from
| UEFI and have the system your way with mainline kernel support.
| IE6 wrote:
| I agree with you about dev boards but I think their post was
| focused on things like used NUCs or other small x86 machines
| that are only marginally larger than a Pi in an enclosure and
| include literally everything you'd want (enclosure, pwa fan,
| SATA SSD, NVMe, wifi, etc.) and the software support is there
| (linux / windows).
| nine_k wrote:
| How about power consumption, especially in when not under
| load? I remember that Intel chips were not as efficient at
| it as chips with ARM cores.
| belthesar wrote:
| Intel's finally getting competitive in this market with
| the 12th/13th gen chips, because of the heterogeneous
| efficiency/performance core layout. That said, I pine for
| an ARM SoC or SBC that has a larger core count, and
| doesn't have embedded RAM packages, or at least offers at
| least 32 GB of RAM.
| IE6 wrote:
| Good point, I am not sure they can compete with the
| smaller arm development boards in that regard!
| bradfa wrote:
| I didn't see any mention of UEFI in my first read through
| about the Pi 5. Did I just miss it?
|
| I would like to have a quiet and reasonably performant ARM
| aarch64 box at this price point, but only if it supports UEFI
| without needing to resort to silly EFI system partition
| tricks (which the Pi 4 required, last I knew).
| fanf2 wrote:
| One of the differences in the Raspberry Pi 5 is the
| bootloader is in EEPROM. It has 2MiBytes which they doubt
| would be enough to fit a UEFI implementation. So it sounds
| to me like there isn't much chance of UEFI this time.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| No official UEFI support at this time.
| aseipp wrote:
| The RPi4 has had a functional port of TianoCore for a while
| now, which is likely what they were referring to. You can
| use e.g. generic aarch64 UEFI Fedora images out of the box
| with it.
|
| https://github.com/pftf/RPi4
| BackBlast wrote:
| He's talking about off the shelf PCs, not Arm based SBCs with
| a wonky software stack.
| chalsprhebaodu wrote:
| Where can I find these mini PCs? I am trying to find hardware
| for an upcoming project and I'm considering the Pi but would
| love to see some alternatives.
| alskdj21 wrote:
| You can check some Beelinks or some other Chinese brands over
| Amazon. Note that I haven't used any of them tho I'm
| considering getting one.
| dboreham wrote:
| I have a few of these that we use to test "low hardware
| resource" deployment scenarios, running Ubuntu. So far so
| good.
| doubled112 wrote:
| I've been fairly impressed by a couple of Beelinks Mini S12
| I purchased a couple of weeks back. Intel N95 CPU, 16 GB
| RAM, 500GB NVMe. More than enough for checking email.
|
| One was immediately wiped and I installed Debian 12. The
| other was wiped and I installed Windows 10 Pro. Both seemed
| to just work.
|
| Hard to beat for less than $200 CAD.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| Main home server/NAS is a Ryzen 7 Beelink with 64GB. Works
| a treat. Fan is audible when you're hammering the CPU
| (doing a large backup, unpacking downloaded media, running
| a Minecraft server with multiple users) but other than that
| it's not audible from ~5ft away.
| nyadesu wrote:
| This, I've been pretty happy with it as well, it's so
| much easier to set up as a kubernetes node than a RPi.
| tommerjones wrote:
| I've purchased a few HP Elitedesk 800 G3 Minis (refurbished)
| for about $125 on Amazon. They even come with Windows 10 if
| you're looking for that. They're a deal considering the Pi's
| extra expenses like power, case, storage, etc.
| wdfx wrote:
| Some Dell Optiplex models are also much like this. I have a
| refurbed one I got for <PS200 running services here at home
| (core i5, 16GB).
| darkwater wrote:
| I did something similar too, just beware of refurbishers
| putting cheap/trash SSD disks in those machine, they can
| stop working all of a sudden sooner than later (I
| experienced that on my skin)
| gmac wrote:
| Similarly, I got a ThinkCentre M73 (8GB/128GB, Win10) on
| eBay for PS125 3 years ago. It's great.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I love the principle of the mini elitedesks, but some have
| a terribly annoying fan. It's not firmly attached to the
| chassis, so it rattles while spinning (and it spins all the
| time). The heatsink uses a proprietary 3 point attachment,
| so you can't use a big aftermarket cooler instead (even
| though it wouldn't fit in the case, I would have accepted
| the compromise).
|
| Not sure about the <=G3 and >=G7, but the G4 and G5 have
| the issue. The G6 seems to have the fan attached more
| firmly, but I've never tested one in a quiet room.
| Damogran6 wrote:
| There is also a general improvement in code support by
| sticking with x86. I bought a similar 10 year old i5 based
| workstation dell and so many little things just work
| _better_. I didn't realize just how much of my battles were
| based on hardware architecture issues.
| pleoxy wrote:
| Agreed, burns so much time messing around with arm and
| the limited IO suite.
| rdschouw wrote:
| Power consumption is a consideration though depending on
| your use case and setup. A Pi 4 draws about 3W on light
| load and these G3 Minis take 10-12W.
|
| Of course if you deck out a Pi 4 with a SSD and a fan,
| it'll come much closer to the G3 Mini in terms of power
| consumption.
| pleoxy wrote:
| The Dell wyse 5070 idles close to 3-5 watts. A bit more
| than the pi, but pretty close. It's older now, can be
| picked up cheaper than a pi off eBay. DDR 4, sata m.2, on
| board emmc flash. M.2 a-key for WiFi. Max 16GB ram.
|
| When you throw in m.2, lots of ram, all that IO eats
| power. So the minimum idle power creeps up. Arm boards
| too.
| hypercube33 wrote:
| Hp Elitedesk and prodesk are the two 1L available models
| they have you want to hunt for.
|
| Lenovo has M700, M75q (AMD) and a bunch others ranging from
| thin client to workstation performance.
|
| Generally new ones are awesome at about $700 but older ones
| are absolutely capable for upgrading ram, disk, wifi
| whatever. there are modules for up to 10g and other things
| too. Servethehome on YouTube has a bunch of guides.
| ja27 wrote:
| I just stalk eBay's Buy It Now. Got an i7-7700T w/32GB RAM
| and a 256GB NVMe for $163 shipped+tax. Previously got an
| i7-6700T with 1 stick of 16GB RAM so it was cheaper to match
| that for 32GB total.
|
| If you can get friendly with local electronics recyclers or
| auction buyers you might do way better.
| LTL_FTC wrote:
| Agreed. Or if one lives near large research universities,
| they often sell off the equipment they no longer need for a
| solid deal. Sometimes they do sell computers, servers,
| monitors and such by the pallet, however, and I'm not sure
| anyone really needs a cluster that large at home haha
| royjacobs wrote:
| TopTon is a fairly popular brand on AliExpress for these PCs,
| they come in nice fanless enclosures, support 2.5gbit
| ethernet, etc.
| chx wrote:
| Just an example https://www.newegg.com/p/2SW-003Z-00008 but
| countless examples on amazon,newegg,aliexpress
| hu3 wrote:
| It seems to even support two 4k monitors (probably in
| 60hz)!
|
| And they advertise up to 3 monitors support.
| chx wrote:
| This is running a 5257U which is an ancient 5th gen
| mobile chip and even with the Iris graphics it got (much
| better than the usual Intel HD) only HDMI 1.4 is
| supported.
| fullstop wrote:
| I use a Qotom q750g5 for my router / firewall with OpenWRT.
| It is absolutely fantastic, and replaced an aging Ubiquiti
| Edgerouter Lite 3.
| focusedone wrote:
| Lenovo Thinkcentre Tiny on eBay. The M600 model is about the
| slowest / cheapest available and you're looking at $60ish,
| often with an SSD.
|
| Unless you need the GPIO or have a pi-specific purpose, used
| thin clients or tiny PCs make more sense for a home server
| now IMO.
| stavros wrote:
| I got a 2018 Intel NUC for 100 EUR and love it. It's so damn
| fast and small, I immediately bought another one in a fit of
| impulse.
| suprjami wrote:
| eBay. I've picked up thin clients for $50 which take 16G RAM
| and M.2 SSD.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I'm always on the lookout for the beefier chromeboxes,
| they're pretty small physically and pack a lot of punch for
| such a little box. Asus chromebox 3/i7 is my favorite so
| far.
| jcuenod wrote:
| Yes! I picked up a 4GB Acer chromebox with a celeron for
| $20. This is much better value to me than an RPi because
| I don't have to worry about ARM. Obviously RPi serves a
| different use case of tinkering with embedded dev, but
| tons of people are trying to put docker on these
| things...
| api wrote:
| AES acceleration, finally. Lack of that made the Pi 4 not great
| for some applications like fileservers if TLS is in use or some
| VPN/mesh protocols.
| ensocode wrote:
| Awesome, but will I ever get my hands on this device?
| impalallama wrote:
| Surprised by the amount of negativity here. So many comments that
| are saying the raspberry pi isn't competitive in their market
| anymore and then post more locked down less open systems at 2x
| the price.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| I mean, keep in mind that the Pi5 is a $60 device with ~$60+ of
| support hardware (Power supply, cable, miniHDMI to HDMI,
| Cooling, Case, Storage) You can get considerably more powerful
| mini PCs for less than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that
| is upgradable, has further software support, and includes all
| of what you need to get with a Pi. Also, you are reducing
| eWaste.
| jancsika wrote:
| > You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less
| than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable,
| has further software support, and includes all of what you
| need to get with a Pi.
|
| Name three, please, with emphasis on the "considerably more
| powerful" part.
| dingi wrote:
| How about a mini pc with Alder lake N95 with 8g RAM/256g
| nvme for $120
|
| https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt4AHVM
| [deleted]
| mattigames wrote:
| So double the price for slighly better CPU (3.9GHz turbo
| speed vs 2.4GHz -or 2.9GHz with OC-, both with 2MB L2
| cache), for energy it needs 36W (vs 10W), 2 usb ports (vs
| 4), no microSD support, and it weights 4 times as much
| (without including HDD); it does have 256 GB of storage
| included but for $20 you can get a microSD of the same
| capacity for the Rpi5 (or 128GB for $10 when that's
| enough). Yeah, it doesn't look as that much of an
| improvement.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Sure...but it might take me a while...how about this, I'll
| name...as of current, 385 under $100 all with free
| shipping: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mi
| ni%20pc&_sa...
|
| The Pi5 is slower than a Core i3 6100, does not support
| upgradable ram, does not support Pci Gen 3 let alone Gen 3
| x16, no actual Sata 6, no upgradable sockets, etc. There
| are a TON of uses cases for a Pi 5...but only really if
| power consumption and size is critical for the application.
| Almost anyone doing a Pihole, Home assistant, or the like
| is better served by a used miniPc.
| jmspring wrote:
| Power and consumption and size are probably significantly
| more important than the three you list. How often do you
| "upgrade the ram" in an application where something like
| a Pi may be used as a component in a larger system?
| MikusR wrote:
| That shows 2 results
| justin66 wrote:
| Someone buying used electronics on eBay has already
| decided that their time is worthless and the hardware
| doesn't need to be dependable out of the box. Which is
| fine, those are decisions a person could make, but it's
| just disingenuous to compare the value of one thing to
| another without taking the _you are using someone 's
| untested trash_ factor into account.
| Eduard wrote:
| Raspberry Pi 4s fresh out of the factory often have
| hardware issues themselves (HDMI connector failures,
| unreliable USB port power supply on reboot etc.), as one
| can see from the numerous (and unacknowleged) reports on
| Raspberry Pi forums -- so I find the comparison with used
| hardware fair.
| wds wrote:
| I highly doubt that brand-new Raspberry Pis and used PCs
| on eBay have anywhere close to comparable failure rates.
| amluto wrote:
| Anecdote: my one attempt to use a Raspberry Pi PoE hat
| ended in almost immediate failure due to a mechanical
| failure of a header on the hat. (Also the built in fan is
| crap.)
|
| The RPi itself is still going strong.
| justin66 wrote:
| Why lie? Pis have fragile connectors and they certainly
| break more often during use than a brand name laptop's
| connectors, but they do not have a high defect rate out
| of the box.
| aksss wrote:
| There are reasons to prefer a Pi over a used mini PC, but
| it is not reliability. The fact is that with Pis or PCs,
| _if_ you're still running after a week, you're highly,
| highly, likely to survive past the point of usefulness.
|
| Reasons to prefer a pi over a mini PC - easy access to
| GPIO pins; small(er) form factor; power efficiency; lower
| weight; still cost if you can work with zeros.
|
| Reasons to prefer a mini PC over a Pi - price to
| performance ratio is often far, far better; size is "good
| enough" for people just after a small computer (rather
| than an electronics project, POC, etc); you are, in fact,
| reducing ewaste.
|
| In short, if you just need something to run Home
| Assistant or Plex on ProxMox or similar, you would find
| more reward in a mini PC than a Pi, particularly in
| performance.
|
| The bias at play is that people see "old" and equate it
| with "bad performance". That heuristic only works when
| comparing like for like - yesterday's mini-PC to today's
| mini-PC.
| fanf2 wrote:
| The starter kits which include all that stuff have been about
| 150% of the price of the bare board for older models.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| So at $90, that is 270 results on ebay, many have more ram,
| I'm filtering on free shipping only. https://www.ebay.com/s
| ch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sa...
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| > You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less
| than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable
|
| What suggestions do you have for this?
|
| I'm sure some people can find these, but every time I see
| comments like these (or ones that actually give specifics),
| it's always used ones on eBay that aren't actually better and
| are in unknown condition.
|
| I'm not doubting that some people come out ahead, but for me,
| being able to get* the same hardware each time, new, has
| value. Also, a huge draw for RPIs for me are the GPIO pins.
|
| * Yes, the past few years were hard, but not impossible.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| The used on ebay is the actual upside. The issue is that
| most people do not need the size of a Pi and using used
| hardware is reducing eWaste. That said, my personal grab
| was an Acer refurbished Acer XC-830 J4125 for $89.
| dewbrite wrote:
| When RPi 4 was going for $200, I got some Orange Pi 5s for
| about $140 each. My configuration included 8GB RAM, the
| power supply, and a 250GB NVMe drive.
|
| It seems like it's about on par with the RPi 5 in terms of
| power. The OS support is lacking, but the M.2 and +4
| "Little" cores make it pretty compelling regardless.
|
| Edit: just saw the pi 5 has PCIe :0
| Narishma wrote:
| That's par for the course. Raspberry Pi always receives a lot
| of backlash here for some reason, regardless of the news.
| justin66 wrote:
| Seriously dude, why would you even _want_ a new aarch64 SBC
| when you could buy a used NUC off ebay or just use a laptop you
| pulled out of a dumpster?
| belthesar wrote:
| Honest answer: I want systems in my house that have a better
| power to work ratio than I can get from a used laptop or NUC,
| but can still burst to high power when needed for workloads
| that either have bursty compute demands, or on the rare
| occasion I run a consistent high-demand workload. That said,
| the RPi5 doesn't fit the bill for me.
|
| Since replacing an old workstation for secondary/media
| computer in my office, and my laptop with Apple Silicon
| systems, I've been incredibly pleased with the efficiency one
| can get from heterogeneous core layouts in traditional
| compute devices. Not to mention the drop in thermals in my
| office. The summer I swapped out that secondary/media machine
| for the Mac Mini, the temperature in my office dropped 5
| degrees Fahrenheit, while being just as capable for the
| things I used that machine for.
|
| I'd like to do the same for my compute nodes in the house,
| which power my homelab for various workloads. Apple
| hardware's value retention doesn't make sense to pick up,
| even used, especially when I would have to trust an Asahi-
| flavored distro to make that work, so the platform stability
| isn't there. I don't need GPIO, so most SBC offerings just
| don't make sense. The only thing that comes close is the
| LattePanda Sigma, which would get me an Intel platform with
| efficiency cores. A SBC or even a NUC-like platform with a
| higher core count, at the $3-500 price point, would honestly
| be great! It just doesn't seem to be a market yet, and I
| don't imagine it will be until we see more penetration with
| ARM as a desktop compute platform.
| justin66 wrote:
| I'm pretty sure I could do all that with an array of stolen
| business PCs, after I machined the serial numbers off. It
| would be cheaper for sure.
|
| Apologies if it wasn't clear, my original comment was a
| joke. It's becoming a pet peeve that comments about used
| computers, presumably from users in the third- or even the
| fourth-world (?) where money is _really tight,_ dumb down
| just about every thread related to Raspberry Pi.
| teamonkey wrote:
| Same as the people on Reddit claiming that Raspberry Pi has
| killed itself as a business because it's constantly in such
| high demand that it's always sold out.
| stiltzkin wrote:
| Redditors learning resources are clickbait headlines and bot
| echo chambers.
| wpm wrote:
| New York City? Eh, nobody goes there, too much traffic.
| tedivm wrote:
| They're claiming that they've killed themselves as a business
| hobbyists, which isn't exactly wrong. During their supply
| chain issues they made it clear they were prioritizing their
| commercial customers over the hobbyist market.
|
| At this point the hobbyist community has moved on to other
| things (shout out to odroids). I don't think raspberry pi is
| going anywhere, but they do have a very different market and
| customer base than they did five years ago.
|
| Also as a company their social media people really are
| assholes, which doesn't help at all.
| teamonkey wrote:
| > During their supply chain issues they made it clear they
| were prioritizing their commercial customers over the
| hobbyist market.
|
| Which is 100% the correct thing to do. They said they were
| especially prioritising smaller companies that relied on
| Raspberry Pis, where otherwise those companies would
| collapse or need to lay people off, and also kept some
| aside for educational establishments.
|
| Sorry to say this, but your home assistant plant waterer
| robot dog feeder is less important, especially since
| hobbyists can just go to another product much easier than a
| small business can.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Are there any odroid-based PiKVM-like devices? The PiKVM
| device is really well built and the software is good.
| Easiest thing for me to LetsEncrypt too.
| justin66 wrote:
| > At this point the hobbyist community has moved on to
| other things (shout out to odroids).
|
| Some small fraction of one percent of "the hobbyist
| community" has done as you've suggested. You're in some
| kind of odroid bubble.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Yeahnah, I'm not moving to odroid, its a lot of faff and
| terrible support.
|
| I have a N100, and some rp2040s for GPIO.
|
| I have a project coming up that needs to drive a small
| screen, the raspberry pi is totally the platform I'm
| going for. There is no comparison for hardware and
| software options.
| Dah00n wrote:
| So what did all those people that couldn't get a RPI do?
| Stop doing stuff or did they move on? I'm pretty sure the
| other brands saw a big uptick in sales but if you know
| otherwise please do share as I have no numbers to back
| anything up.
| justin66 wrote:
| It's true that the last few years have been rough for new
| users, but if they were already "doing stuff" with a Pi,
| why would they need to stop?
|
| > I'm pretty sure the other brands saw a big uptick in
| sales
|
| They probably had massive upticks in sales, which for
| them might have been quite significant but relative to
| the total Pi user base, not at all.
| nfriedly wrote:
| FWIW, the odroid forums have some assholes that will come
| out of the woodwork if you even mention a competing
| product. I reported one, and the mods told me that the
| forum was only for odroid products, so they weren't going
| to take any action.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| > At this point the hobbyist community has moved on to
| other things (shout out to odroids). I don't think
| raspberry pi is going anywhere, but they do have a very
| different market and customer base than they did five years
| ago.
|
| FWIW the communities I participate in are still RPI focused
| and I don't think I've seen anyone using an odroid.
|
| > Also as a company their social media people really are
| assholes, which doesn't help at all.
|
| This is something I'm somehow unaware of (I avoid general
| social media); what do you mean?
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| Five generations in and it finally gets radical features such as:
|
| - a power button
|
| - a real time clock
|
| Crazy it took this long but finally, seriously.
|
| Downsides here are that it might need more active cooling whereas
| previous generations worked without it.
|
| Also, ugh:
|
| > Gigabit Ethernet, with PoE+ support (requires separate PoE+
| HAT)
| [deleted]
| znpy wrote:
| > Downsides here are that it might need more active cooling
| whereas previous generations worked without it.
|
| peak power usage also raised to 25W, as now a 5W/5A psu is
| required.
|
| But in the end... features require power, we can't really
| complain much.
| globular-toast wrote:
| I liked that the Pi lacked features that were taken for
| granted. Made you think about things in a different way. Now
| it's just the same as everything else and much less about
| learning and education.
| m463 wrote:
| > Gigabit Ethernet, with PoE+ support (requires separate PoE+
| HAT)
|
| isn't this just like the 4?
| dheera wrote:
| I tried 2 different HATs and they fried two Pi 4s. I gave up
| on it.
|
| I won't do PoE without reliable official hardware.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| I've been powering a Pi 4 for several years now with the
| official PoE hat (edit: not PoE+), without any problems
| (other than that the fan is starting to get noisy).
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| Just a shame they didn't add actual POE without extra
| hardware.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| PoE requires a few beefy components that would blow the
| board size (and BOM) up quite a bit, for a feature probably
| only 10-20% of users require.
|
| I'm happy with a separate accessory, but wish they could've
| kept compatibility with the previous versions.
| markonen wrote:
| The idea that even 10-20% of users would power their Pis
| with PoE seems wild to me. Seems like a much smaller
| niche to me (even though I'm one of those people).
|
| Anyway, I have been wondering whether a headless-oriented
| SKU wouldn't make sense. Pay for the PoE BOM by
| jettisoning the video output.
| rewmie wrote:
| > The idea that even 10-20% of users would power their
| Pis with PoE seems wild to me. Seems like a much smaller
| niche to me (even though I'm one of those people).
|
| I'd be surprised if the majority of RPi's userbase didn't
| used PoE. Having to cart around a power supply isn't a
| very attractive option when all you have to do to power
| the device is simply plugging in a yank-proof RJ45 cable.
| It's also cheaper as you don't have to buy a charger.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I've contemplated trying PoE for powering RPis, but just
| the HAT alone is more than the official power supply, so
| it's hardly cheaper and that's not even figuring in the
| extra cost of PoE network equipment.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| I think that's what the Compute Module is for. Put it on
| a breakout board with just the I/O you need, and away you
| go.
| skywal_l wrote:
| > The idea that even 10-20% of users would power their
| Pis with PoE seems wild to me
|
| I actually though it was the other way around. Having the
| PI powers other devices like IP cameras.
| mrweasel wrote:
| I'm really surprised that PoE isn't more prevalent that
| is currently the case, but I guess it's because most
| people prefer WiFi devices. I'd add network jacks to
| everything and remove the power plugs if the option was
| presented. Most "normal" people seem to be the other way
| around.
|
| "Wireless" speakers (they'd be networks speakers then) /
| home assistant devices / media players and whatever else
| should always be attached with a network cable, so just
| power them over PoE. I'm still annoying that the AppleTV
| isn't PoE enabled. That's not a device I'd use over WiFi
| anyway.
| stavros wrote:
| The option isn't presented for me. My flat has plenty of
| power outlets but no Ethernet ones, and that's ~100% of
| the houses I've seen.
| skywal_l wrote:
| > I'd add network jacks to everything and remove the
| power plugs if the option was presented.
|
| You could always use PLC to use your eletrical network as
| a data network. I use that for IP cameras. Unfortunately,
| I still haven't found a PCL adapter providing PoE power.
| m463 wrote:
| I think real POE is kind of heavyweight. It uses higher
| voltage like 37-57 volts and the pi poe hats I've seen
| usually have fans.
|
| I've used "informal" poe where you have a cheap
| injector/splitter that puts a nonstandard lower voltage
| over the ethernet.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NRHNPUA
|
| but real poe is getting more popular, poe switches are
| becoming available and maybe the hat is worth it.
|
| There are also middle-of-the-road solutions:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TJ3ZNJ4
|
| basically poe splitter that has a usb-c power out for the
| pi
| Narishma wrote:
| More like 1 or 2%.
| peteforde wrote:
| I've gone to unholy ends to syncronize large herds of Pis using
| a patched NTP server and several other dirty tricks.
|
| The RTC is a huge deal to the people who care about it.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Won't you still need an NTP or a GPS time module unless the
| RTC has a battery backup?
|
| How many applications would you have where timing is critical
| but you won't have an external time reference that would be
| still viable without a guaranteed power backup?
| peteforde wrote:
| Nobody said anything about not having NTP in the loop!
|
| Here's the deal: RPi<5 runs at the speed of the voltage
| coming in. The OS creates a fake software clock that
| assumes it's a perfect 5v, but in reality not only does
| voltage fluctuate, it drops over the length of a cable run.
| If you have, I dunno, 70 Pis connected, the 5v on the first
| one is very different than the 5v on the last one, no
| matter how frequently you ask NTP to broadcast.
|
| The first thing we did was deliver 12V down the wire with a
| high quality power supply. Then we used UBEC buck converter
| modules (intended for RC quadcopters) to deliver power
| directly into the Pi via its pins.
|
| However, even now you're just chasing physics. There's no
| way to send a command to all of the Pis to do something
| _right now_. Instead, we tell all of them to do something
| at a very precise moment in about three seconds. In our
| case, this meant writing a very low-level C program to
| listen for raw UDP messages and trigger the camera module
| at the hardware register level.
|
| The only way to verify that it was working as well as we
| believed it did was to create a reference clock. We had a
| friend build a 20 LED timer that would count 10ms and 1ms
| increments.
|
| We achieved < 1ms syncronization across 70 Pis in this
| manner.
| uxp8u61q wrote:
| I may be completely off base here, but maybe the rpi
| wasn't the best tool for the project then? What was it,
| if I may ask?
| peteforde wrote:
| I mean, I'd be curious what you'd have suggested!
|
| We needed it to be small, low power, low heat, provide
| hardware level access to a camera module, be ethernet
| accessible. Oh, and under $100 including a fixed M-mount
| lens.
|
| At the time, it didn't seem like rolling our own hardware
| would have been faster.
|
| I would argue - given we succeeded at sub 1ms
| syncronization - that the Pi was close to the perfect
| tool.
|
| It just would have been even more perfect if it had an
| RTC.
| Fnoord wrote:
| You already solved your issue, but still I'll mention it:
|
| For my Pi's I buy a separate RTC (uses GPIO pins).
| There's various available, the DS3231 is the most
| expensive but also the best. If you buy it in bulk (70+)
| I suppose you could shave some money off. If you're OK
| with a cheaper one (less than half the price) which
| functions less well (but still does the job) then
| PCF8523. I got mine from a local Adafruit reseller.
| peteforde wrote:
| FWIW, the cheapest RTC module we could find that had
| kernel support was about $31 at the time. Things have
| gotten a lot better and cheaper since then. Adafruit
| didn't launch that DS3231 until four years after we did
| this.
|
| We couldn't justify adding ~$2500 to the bottom line, but
| you can be confident that we sure did argue about it.
| Goz3rr wrote:
| Missed this comment when asking why you didn't add a $2
| RTC, but given that you mention Adafruit I assume making
| your own hardware to stick onto a Pi wasn't an option?
| The DS3231 you mention is a chip with mainline support
| since 2009. Cheaper options like a DS1307 cost less than
| a $0.50 a piece when you buy 100 of them, and they've
| been supported in Linux since 2006.
| peteforde wrote:
| TL;DR we were programmers, not engineers.
|
| I'd say 50/50 that I didn't know what I2C was in 2014.
|
| Still, if we had gone and designed our own RTC
| daughterboard, it would have replaced the UBEC in our
| architecture diagram. We were buying those for $3-4 in
| 1000 unit quantities.
|
| So, had you been on hand a decade ago, you might have won
| the argument although if I put on my board member hat,
| fabbing our own PCB sounds a lot scarier than buying
| boxes of buck converters.
|
| It's hard to express how wild it is that they just pop
| right on and guarantee close to perfect voltage to each
| device.
|
| https://www.alibaba.com/product-
| detail/UBEC-5V-3A-5A-7A-15A_...
| Fnoord wrote:
| Fair enough! I'm not sure I caught that the project was
| from 2014.
|
| From your URL, the second part made me wonder if the
| statement is correct: "UBEC 5V 3A/5A/7A/15A BEC 2-12S
| Lipo Step-down Module External Power Supply Full
| Shielding Antijamming For FPV Airplane" would this
| actually work?
| peteforde wrote:
| YES!
|
| And now, you too can share in the late night cackling joy
| we experienced so many years ago.
|
| Those three pin headers on the UBEC just glide right into
| place on the +5/GND pins at the top of GPIO row.
|
| Note that the graphic animation also explains that this
| UBEC is certified unisex... so make of that what you
| will.
| pomatic wrote:
| An ESP32 seems a better fit to me, and would also be
| cheaper and more power efficient.
| peteforde wrote:
| The ESP32 didn't launch until we were already in market.
|
| Still, I would politely suggest that you're
| underestimating the part where we needed low level access
| to a camera module that came with the RPi.
|
| Even if the ESP32 had been out, we didn't have anyone
| handy to spend six months reverse engineering CMOS
| registers.
|
| Everything is super easy a) in hindsight and b) when
| you're commenting on Hacker News and not actually doing
| it.
| pomatic wrote:
| Given that you can't share the unique details of your use
| case, what could have been an interesting discussion
| regarding design tradeoffs is moot.
|
| (And _I_ would politely ask that you don 't make
| assumptions about what I might or might not have actually
| accomplished in similar spheres, you have zero idea.)
| peteforde wrote:
| If you read the whole thread, I've gone into significant
| detail.
|
| Happy to answer any further questions you might have to
| the degree that I'm able.
| numpad0 wrote:
| This is an armchair hindsight, but sounds like that
| needed a way to broadcast trigger GPIO interrupts, which
| are like JavaScript event handler for hardware.
|
| You can attach a function to a pin, and CPU force-jump
| into a preprogrammed address for a handler routine, which
| leads into your code, then return(return(return())) back
| to where it came from. The trigger can be delivered by,
| say, a Xenon flash pointed at the ceiling and a light
| sensor, or a dedicated pair of wires from a master
| Arduino, or a intentional glitch in power line, a drone
| receiver per each pi all on a same channel, etc.
|
| > fixed M-mount lens
|
| I assume this is meant to say metric threaded C/CS mount
| for surveillance cameras, as M-mount is boutique full-
| frame Leica mount.
| peteforde wrote:
| If I knew then what I know now, I would have spent more
| time on interrupts as a solution, it's true.
| uxp8u61q wrote:
| Well, if you absolutely needed to use that specific rpi
| camera module (if I understood your other comment
| correctly) and you didn't have time to reverse engineer
| it, then rpi was probably the best option, sure. It just
| feels weird to assume that, or that every single module
| needed to be connected by ethernet. Rpi and low power in
| the same sentence also feels weird. I'd have tried to
| build little devices out of STM32. But again, I barely
| know anything about your project.
| peteforde wrote:
| Ethernet was handy for moving the images off the Pis once
| they were captured.
|
| The RP2 was indeed low powered compared to the Intel/AMD
| powered systems we were otherwise familiar with.
|
| Outside of the bubble of people with EE skills, however
| big the bubble is, stopping to learn expert-level mcu
| programming from scratch is rarely the way things work in
| a software startup. Despite the obvious focus of this
| thread, the hardware we assembled and configured was all
| in support of our software.
| eurekin wrote:
| Oh my.. Please, can you share more about it? Some NDAs
| about the function of that pi fleet?
| zh3 wrote:
| We've synchronised multiple Pi's to fractions of a
| millisecond, with flash systems with accuracy in the
| microseconds for specialised motion capture. Happy to
| discuss if you're interested - I'm on <hn username> at
| 'tessierlabs . com' (without spaces).
| peteforde wrote:
| Unfortunately, I probably can't share much more than the
| above.
|
| However, if you have more specific technical questions,
| I'll try to do my best.
| xorcist wrote:
| What's with the patching? It sounds like pretty much spot
| on for what NTP was designed for.
|
| Each clock is monotonically increasing, with its
| individual drift. NTP will pretty soon find out exactly
| what the right polling interval is. Even if you run it in
| broadcast mode (why would you though, with only 70
| devices).
| peteforde wrote:
| It's been eight years, but if memory serves, the primary
| need was to force it to broadcast as frequently as
| possible.
|
| Everything you said is totally legit unless you're
| addressing devices with software clocks that are running
| at speeds dictated by subtly shifting voltage.
|
| Remember, according to the Pi itself, it's 100% in sync.
| No problem hereeeeeeee (robot voice as voltage dips to
| 4.9887 volts).
| Goz3rr wrote:
| If you were already going through all that effort, what
| was the reason behind not just adding a $2 RTC to the i2c
| header of each Pi?
| peteforde wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37686856
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| At some point, and considering how cheap they are these
| days, the simplest option is to add a GPS module if your
| use-case allows for satellites in decent view.
| peteforde wrote:
| Does this work inside?
|
| How cheap is cheap?
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| > _Does this work inside_
|
| It depends. Hence my previous comment.
|
| > _How cheap is cheap?_
|
| Google says unit retail price for module with PPS output
| can be under $5.
| peteforde wrote:
| Our deployment environments were occasionally in places
| where daylight wasn't a thing.
|
| However, if we could have used GPS at a marginal cost of
| $5 at the time, it's very likely we would have been
| excited to hear about this.
|
| Thanks for the lightbulb moment.
| stavros wrote:
| Would it have worked to add something like a single GPS
| module connected to an ESP8266 that sends a pulse every
| minute to all the Pis' GPIOs so they can sync?
| peteforde wrote:
| We tried something like this, up to a pulse a second, and
| it's hard to stress how crazy you can get trying to make
| physics behave differently.
| stavros wrote:
| What went wrong there? Surely the pulse propagated at
| close to the speed of light? What kind of synchronization
| accuracy did you need?
| peteforde wrote:
| <1ms
|
| The internal "clock" time would start to drift
| immediately after it was set.
| stavros wrote:
| Hm, yeah, you'd need a much more frequent method of
| synchronization to avoid that. I'm assuming the rate
| wasn't constant, huh? Because of voltage drops depending
| on draw?
| peteforde wrote:
| I want to be a better conversation partner on this, but I
| am extremely constrained in what I can share and again,
| it was 8-9 years ago that this was all top of mind.
|
| Can we mutually agree that in a year of not-dumb people
| trying everything we could manage to achieve the best
| outcome, we tried a lot of things and we often didn't
| know what we didn't know?
| stavros wrote:
| We cannot, because I'm not trying to find you a solution
| you didn't think of, I'm trying to learn from your
| failures so I can skip over them next time I need
| something similar to this.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| > Does this work inside?
|
| Mine does after I got an active antenna for it.
|
| > How cheap is cheap?
|
| I got a u-blox NEO-6m module for a few bucks, add another
| few bucks for the active antenna. The newer GPS modules
| are much better (more satellites, faster lock etc) but
| this is sufficient for me.
| Pwngu wrote:
| [dead]
| walteweiss wrote:
| Do you mind delving deeper into this RTC for those who don't
| care about it (yet?).
| fransje26 wrote:
| And let's go completely radical. Does it get proper video
| drivers?
| knallfrosch wrote:
| Everyone wants _their_ features in, but the Pi to be $40. That
| just doesn 't work.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| moore's law should apply so why wouldn't it work?
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Because moore's law is a proxy for RnD for an entire
| industry. if you want cutting edge features, you need to
| pay for them.
|
| raspberrypi is about value engineering. Making stuff fast
| and cheap enough so that you can do useful work, but not
| worry too much if you break it (on the one hand) Or give
| access to someone who's never had a programmable computer
| for a price that's cheaper than most mid range lego sets.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| All I want is UEFI so we can stop having per-device images. Is
| that so much to ask?
| dmitrygr wrote:
| rPI went from armv6 to armv7 to armv8. CortexA76 does not
| even support using 32 bit kernels. Rp1 requires an armv6 32
| bit kernel. There is NO kernel build on earth that would run
| on both an pi1 and a pi5 and no amount of efi would help. (I
| am ignoring the possibility of custom nasty hacks to make a
| polyglot kernel). We'll have per-device images until we
| standardize on a single architecture or at least a subset of
| one.
|
| And no, you really wouldn't want a lowest common denominator
| build anyways. That would leave a lot on the table.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Yeah, I can live with images per architecture; the problem
| is needing an image specifically for the pi. I want the
| same thing as we get on x86; sure, there are separate
| images for i686 and x86_64, but there's not one image for
| Dell and one for HP and one for Lenovo and...
| dmitrygr wrote:
| Well, now that the latest rPi is on the latest ARM arch,
| it might be possible for future rPis, unless ARM goes and
| changes the arch around in an incompatible way.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| That's beside the point; you can build a UEFI bootloader
| for at least as far back as the Pi 3, but you have to
| stick it on an SD card because there's no on-board memory
| to hold it. I mostly just want enough flash built in to
| hold it.
| dmitrygr wrote:
| rPI is quite cost optimized. That's one of the stated
| goals. An extra component to buy and place on the board
| costs read money. Plus, an implementation of UEFI will
| not be tiny. It would likely would need a few MBytes of
| flash. That's a dollar or two already. If everybody's
| requests, each of which would add a dollar or two to the
| board, were fulfilled, you'd be looking at a much more
| expensive board, and complaining about cost instead. :)
| lproven wrote:
| The master CPU of the Rasberry Pi 1-4 is the VideoCore GPU,
| _not_ the Arm.
|
| The "firmware" is the now-Microsoft-owned, proprietary,
| ThreadX RTOS:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThreadX
|
| The Arm doesn't start the computer and you can't run any
| firmware on the Arm that will change this.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| There's no reason the GPU can't chain boot a UEFI
| implementation on a few MB of onboard flash, though
| puzzlingcaptcha wrote:
| So they finally splurged for ARM crypto extensions huh.
| mz1082 wrote:
| exciting new model release, and wish to see RPI Zero 3W with
| bigger memory!!
| smartinson wrote:
| wow, i just bought a new pi4 just because i was told there won't
| be a pi5 in the near term... cool.
| filleokus wrote:
| Hmm. I'm disappointed honestly, I was looking forward to USB-C
| with display port and "normal" USB-C power.
|
| Is there any reasonable option with software support that comes
| even close to what RPI offers? I don't want an SBC where I have
| to use some strange back ported, super old, kernel with little to
| no chance of getting updates.
|
| Maybe I should just go for an X86 board? Lattepanda Delta, or
| Khadas Mind whenever that's released. Not even that more
| expensive.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| Pine64 makes SBCs with the same goal as their PinePhones to get
| mainline Linux on them. That effort expands to many boards that
| use the same SoC. So the rk3399 used in the PinePhone. Their
| newer board uses rk3588 which isn't completely mainlined yet.
| But I think these are the best bet for software support.
|
| https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/QuartzPro64_Development#Upstrea...
| 654wak654 wrote:
| You could also get a framework laptop mainboard with a case:
| https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case
| anaganisk wrote:
| Isn't the link you posted, only for the case?
| 654wak654 wrote:
| You can also buy mainboards[1] and expansion cards[2]
| (usb-c, hdmi etc.) from the same website. Depending on how
| beefy of a computer you want there are mainboards from 299
| USD to 700 USD. So for ~500 USD you can get a very powerful
| tiny-ish computer. It obviously won't have the IO
| capabilities of pi-like hobby boards but it'll function
| great as a thin client for running linux / home automation
| stuff.
|
| [1]: https://frame.work/marketplace/mainboards [2]:
| https://frame.work/marketplace/expansion-cards
| scottlamb wrote:
| > Is there any reasonable option with software support that
| comes even close to what RPI offers? I don't want an SBC where
| I have to use some strange back ported, super old, kernel with
| little to no chance of getting updates.
|
| aarch64-wise, not quite yet I think, but I have hope for the
| RK3588. https://gitlab.collabora.com/hardware-
| enablement/rockchip-35...
|
| > Maybe I should just go for an X86 board? Lattepanda Delta, or
| Khadas Mind whenever that's released. Not even that more
| expensive.
|
| Yeah, x86-64 would certainly be a safe choice if you have the
| budget for it. I'd add ODROID-H3/ODROID-H3+ to this list.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| > "normal" USB-C power
|
| I have no idea what kind of USB-C PSU one can call "normal",
| but allowing higher voltages would be really good.
| bmicraft wrote:
| "Normal" would be a voltage-current combination, that isn't
| likely to lead to 10% lost energy just in the cable and
| connectors alone.
|
| 12V @ 2.25A would have been much more sensible: With a 100mO
| cable you'd lose 1.8% instead of 10%
| hydroid7 wrote:
| I'm sad that there is no PR2040 PRU on board.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| The RP1 chip has some parts of the RP2040, though details are a
| little scarce. There are apparently some things you can do on
| RP1 when the main SoC is powered off, which leads me to believe
| outside of the main IO, you could do some interesting things
| with GPIO and/or CSI/DSI ports while the Pi is powered down (or
| in some sort of sleep-like state).
| JeremyBarbosa wrote:
| Phoronix already has some benchmarks on it for those looking for
| more specific performance numbers:
|
| https://www.phoronix.com/review/raspberry-pi-5-benchmarks
| geerlingguy wrote:
| I'm also posting some additional benchmarks to my GitHub sbc-
| reviews repo: https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-
| reviews/issues/21
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| Hey, I'm not really savvy with hardware. I wanted to use a pi4 to
| be my home TV controller to stream content to a TV or projector.
|
| A long time ago I saw this appear:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26495719
|
| And it seemed to sort of work but not quite enough. There were
| stutters in the content streamed and strange clicks in the audio.
| Will this new one be enough? Was that even the likely limiting
| factor?
| NortySpock wrote:
| In my experience my Raspberry Pi 3, running Kodi, was able to
| keep up with a 720p MPEG2 stream as long as I had no network
| hiccups.
|
| Not sure what file format your Raspberry Pi is trying to
| transcode from though.
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| I very much want to just run through a familiar browser
| interface with a mouse and keyboard and use netflix and sflix
| and what not.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Honestly? You can get a business mini PC with better
| performance and software support for less than a Pi4/5
| ycuser2 wrote:
| Yes, but consider the energy consumption.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| In context, it isn't awful. You can get a J4125 machine in
| that price range often times and that is not far at all
| from a Pi5.
| keyle wrote:
| This is exciting. I wish this would work without a fan, just with
| a good cooling system.
|
| I say this because I love the idea of a full linux computer
| without a fan. I'm loving the Apple silicon machines at the
| moment for this. Perfect silent computing.
|
| I wish it came as well in a larger board, with proper HDMI ports.
| There is a market for silent linux machines, I think!
|
| What would be your dream linux fan-less setup?
| fragmede wrote:
| The other day, I found myself in the interesting state of
| needing an x86 binary, but not having any x86 machines readily
| available. My (i)phone, laptop - apple silicon macbook, home
| server - raspberry pi, all run ARM! Previously, that would have
| been limited to just my phone, but, ah, time marches on
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| > What would be your dream linux fan-less setup?
|
| I am quite satisfied using the Pi 400, a portable LCD display,
| and a wireless backlit keyboard.
| ACV001 wrote:
| I am sure it will work without a fan
| alangibson wrote:
| I'd love it if SBC manufacturers would announce their software
| support along with new hardware specs. I'm using a Pi 4 in a CNC
| plasma cutter solely because they have the only working realtime
| Linux PREEMPT_RT build I could find. I would love to use the
| Odroid N2+ but their ancient realtime branch won't even boot.
| lynguist wrote:
| Question to the raspberry enthusiasts: Does anyone know if I can
| reliably extend a Raspberry Pi with an additional Gbit Ethernet
| port?
| eulgro wrote:
| With a USB 3.0 port and a USB-to-Ethernet adapter you should be
| able to. Not all adapters support 1 Gbps but with USB 3.0 it's
| definitely possible.
| rjsw wrote:
| I'm getting close to line speed with a USB 3.0 Ethernet
| adapter plugged into a laptop, so the adapter itself
| shouldn't be the bottleneck. I get 109KB/s ftp transfers to a
| NVMe drive.
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| Nice. Now, if I could just get an M.2 board for an Intel Edison
| (I have a few DOS games I want to emulate, but the Pi4 still
| isn't quite powerful enough for).
| [deleted]
| azinman2 wrote:
| I wonder how does this in CPU performance compare to the new
| Jetson Orin Nano?
|
| I'd love to find something low power that can be a nice little
| home server to host various projects. Mac Minis might be the best
| perf/watt but they're still coming in pretty expensive in
| comparison.
| jlarcombe wrote:
| I know this will sound like a whinge but it's really a shame they
| removed the audio jack, it was so useful for simple sound/music
| projects.
| alex-robbins wrote:
| Does the Pi 4 have hardware video decoding in mainline Linux yet?
| I gave up on Raspberry stuff after buying a 4 and finding out
| that the mainline support was so much worse than expected.
| schappim wrote:
| It seems the answer is 'yes', especially for formats like
| h.264. Notably, they discontinued HW support in the RPI5 and
| chose to process it through software instead. This approach
| saves money since they don't need to pay for the intellectual
| property rights in the System on Chip (SoC). Additionally, the
| BCM2712 handles the video processing w/out breaking a sweat.
| piotrke wrote:
| Are there any plans for Pi 5 16GB?
| Chatting wrote:
| I question whether it's wise to launch a new product before the
| supply chain issues which have plagued Raspberry Pi for years
| have been fully resolved.
|
| Granted, the situation has improved slightly over the past few
| months. But you will still find Pi 4s out of stock more often
| than not.
|
| The CEO said last year _not_ to expect a Pi 5 in 2023, because
| they wanted to take the time to recover. Why the u-turn?
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/21/23520400/raspberry-pi-5-...
| burnte wrote:
| Or it's a great way to counter the shortage by instead offering
| a new product that uses parts more easily available. We'll see.
| l1k wrote:
| The point here is likely to pull the rug out from under
| scalpers' feet.
|
| With the Raspberry Pi 5 out in two weeks, all the held-back
| inventory of older models will be dumped, prices will plummet,
| availability will become a non-issue.
|
| In that sense it's a wise move.
| AmIDev wrote:
| If scalpers are able to sell a product at higher price,
| doesn't that mean the company priced the product too low?
| sanity31415 wrote:
| Raspberry should raise the price until scalping isn't
| profitable. Keeping the price low is just handing money to
| scalpers that should be going towards future product
| development, until they can meet the demand.
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| I think scalping is more of a supply issue, raising the
| official price of the product would only require more cash
| when scalpers are doing their buying.
| michaeltimo wrote:
| Finding older models were also almost impossible in the past
| two years. It's unlikely that Raspberry Pi 5 will solve the
| issue. But even so, it's not a wise move because what is the
| point of bringing a new model when they can't make it
| available to normal people?
| meragrin_ wrote:
| > they can't make it available to normal people
|
| I guess you haven't been looking recently? I can go to a
| local store and pick one up. It looks easy to pick up one
| online too.
|
| https://rpilocator.com/
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| I think I've seen Pi Kits at my local target. The issue
| with those is, they're for niche things I might not care
| about and now I got tech waste on my hands, but also
| might not be the exact model I want.
|
| Note I'm not disagreeing, just saying in some cases, the
| ones in-store are kits.
| mlyle wrote:
| I wouldn't expect Target to carry bare Raspberry Pi-- how
| many people walk into a Target wanting a Pi with no
| accessories?
| eldaisfish wrote:
| I have and it is still a pain. Many websites still have
| limits on how many you can buy. The situation has
| improved but it is far from what your comment implies.
| mindcrime wrote:
| _Many websites still have limits on how many you can
| buy._
|
| For a hobbyist / individual, is that really a big deal? I
| mean, how many do you need at one time?
|
| Anyway, the claim all along has been that supplies would
| be "back to normal" by the end of this year, and so far
| things seem to be tracking that way. If you look at
| rpilocator.com now, the entire first two pages are full
| of green lines, which is a DRASTIC improvement compared
| to just 6 months ago. And some of the major distributors
| are getting in shipments of 5,000, 6,000 at a time of
| some models and having them in stock for weeks on end. So
| one can clearly see that the situation is improving
| rapidly.
|
| That said, I will make no claim one way or the other with
| regards to the question of whether or not shipping a Pi 5
| is a "good idea" or not.
| fanf2 wrote:
| The Raspberry Pi 5 will only be for sale to individuals
| until the end of this year (no industrial customers
| competing for inventory like the older models)
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| Plus, they're only launching the 4/8gb models to start.
| So there'll be another wave of cheaper ones a little
| later. Really hoping they still hit the $35 price point
| on the 1gb model.
| dixie_land wrote:
| On a similar note, I'm genuinely curious as to why Pi chose
| the "authorized reseller" model instead of selling them
| directly.
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| They do also sell them directly, though not in large
| quantities. They even have a retail store somewhere in the
| UK.
| djbusby wrote:
| B2C, small quantity sales are not fun. B2B selling pallets
| full.
| rewmie wrote:
| I'd be surprised if reselling through authorized sellers
| isn't much simpler and problem-free than selling them
| directly.
|
| I also expect that using resellers ensures better odds of
| protecting the brand/project goodwill. Resellers deal with
| problems like "I paid a ton of cash for a board and it
| arrived late and/or broken". Support alone is a nightmare,
| and I recall that raspberry Pi struggled with PR when they
| started out. I vaguely recall Liz Upton being behind some
| ill-advised episodes that didn't improved Raspberry Pi's
| image and would get anyone other PR person sacked.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Because world wide sales is really hard.
|
| Having trusted local resellers is a much more scalable way
| to sell to local markets.
| alangibson wrote:
| Mouser sold about 3000 Pi 4s in the last couple of weeks. I'm
| hoping a few scalpers are about to get seriously burned.
|
| Interestingly Digikey has over 2000 left. I wonder if they
| are limiting quantities.
| teamonkey wrote:
| Quite possibly they weren't expecting to be ready to launch in
| 2023 but the design/supply/capacity issues were resolved
| quicker than expected.
| rasz wrote:
| CEOs lie, thats in their job description.
|
| My little pi CEO anecdote: Eben Upton visited local hackerspace
| many years ago, someone asked about Pi2 (or maybe 3) potential
| release date and should he wait or buy now, Eben answered they
| arent even planning next version. A week later Pi2 was
| announced.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Meh, that's pretty standard practice due to the Osborn
| effect. [1] At the Pi1 phase, Rpi was a pretty small company.
| It wouldn't have been great for them if rumor got spread far
| and wide that Pi2 was on it's way in a week or two.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
| esrauch wrote:
| I think the criticism of saying "we're not even thinking of
| a replacement" is fair, the standard dodge "we don't have
| anything to announce at this time" which is enough to avoid
| the Osborne Effect.
| hajile wrote:
| I'm much more surprised that they decided to launch with a GPU
| that would have been considered awful if it had been released
| with previous pi four years ago.
| tomcam wrote:
| Would you consider it better than no GPU at all?
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| "Don't expect it" to "launching Q4 for individual buyers" isn't
| really a u-turn.
| numpad0 wrote:
| I think it's completely acceptable so long that a legacy
| compatible "Pi SE" options would be available, in Pi 3 and Pi 4
| form factors.
|
| Raspberry Pi are used installed as components into third party
| engineered products, and Raspberry Pi brand holds no value to
| potential industrial customers if new products did not
| technologically exchange with existing such products. That is
| to say the exact mounting details, electrical compatibility,
| software compatibility, DO provide the value the "Raspberry Pi"
| brand offers if its competitors offered it.
|
| What I'm saying is, if Espressif brought that new ESP-branded
| 32bit thing in the Pi 3 mounting dimensions and onboard eMMC
| and 1/5th performance at $35+9%, that kind of thing _could_
| outsell Pi 5 at this rate, and I wouldn 't mind watching that
| happening.
| adolph wrote:
| There's nothing stopping a person from putting an ESP on a
| RPi B board format (or a Zero one), other than certain IO
| limitation. The upcoming P4 might be a candidate [0]. If you
| are interested in sbc in Pi form factors (B, Zero, CM3, CM4),
| then something I follow is CNX [1]. It will typically have
| notifications of any new Orange Pi, Libre Computer, etc.
|
| 0. https://www.espressif.com/en/news/ESP32-P4
|
| 1. https://www.cnx-software.com/news/raspberry-pi/
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| It would be amusing if they used a pi2040 chip to drive the
| IO pins on such a board. I'm sure there's cheaper chips out
| there to do this.
| fanf2 wrote:
| Check out the "obsolescence statement" on the Raspberry Pi
| product pages. The 3B+ will remain in production until at
| least 2028 https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-
| pi-3-model-b-... and the 4 until at least 2031
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-
| pi-4-model-b/...
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| Remain in production could mean like the nano 2 W which is
| manufactured in such small numbers it's never in stock.
| ch_123 wrote:
| Or it may require a large order up front.
| fanf2 wrote:
| It's available to buy from several places
| https://rpilocator.com/
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| Not in the US it's not.
|
| https://rpilocator.com/?country=US&cat=PIZERO2
|
| (Btw I misspoke and said nano when I meant zero)
| lonjil wrote:
| It may be that whatever is currently bottlenecking RPi4
| production isn't relevant to RPi5.
| cameron_b wrote:
| The RP1 I/O custom silicon hints that this may be the case
| [deleted]
| a_paddy wrote:
| Through hole components resulted in previous Pi's being
| slightly slower to manufacture, the Pi5 only uses surface
| mount components which should increase Sony's build cadence.
| tpmx wrote:
| The bottleneck has been component availability ("supply
| chain"), not manufacturing.
| zeristor wrote:
| Any talk of CM5, or a PiZero 3W?
| osti wrote:
| Amazing benchmark results
| https://www.phoronix.com/review/raspberry-pi-5-benchmarks
| qhwudbebd wrote:
| I was going to post to ask how it was likely to compare with
| the current crop of RK3588 boards that are marching towards
| decent mainline support, but this link already answers this to
| some extent. It looks like it's faster on some benchmarks,
| slower on others, but basically in a similar ballpark?
| osti wrote:
| Yeah, and these results are achieved on 4 cores instead of 7.
| phamilton4 wrote:
| Damn, I was hoping the old PoE hats would continue to work with
| this one. Looks like the PoE pins have moved around. Another 20+
| USD on top of the board cost... Kinda disappointing, but the
| upgraded SD speeds will be nice. Was also hoping they'd boost the
| core count or memory for some models, I know it's kinda against
| their targeted group, but would have been nice to have the
| options
| osti wrote:
| They even officially want to sell you a cooling fan. So I'm
| assuming the A76 is going to overheat more than the A72 in the 4?
| PrivateButts wrote:
| TBH the thing I hate most about this category of SBC is the
| reliance on SD cards. They are both too unreliable to trust and
| so slow that they often bottleneck the SBC. Buying them is often
| a crap shoot too, I've purchased cards batches of cards from the
| supposed reputable manufacturers that were all over the board
| when benchmarked, and rarely did they hit the claimed speed spec.
| I would love if there was an alternative that was not as much as
| a jump as those SSD flash drives or NVME drive. Maybe OS grade
| eMMC M.2 drives the size of those wifi cards?
| foggywin wrote:
| Did you read the blog post? :)
|
| "One of the most exciting additions to the Raspberry Pi 5
| feature set is the single-lane PCI Express 2.0 interface.
| Intended to support fast peripherals, it is exposed on a
| 16-pin, 0.5mm pitch FPC connector on the left-hand side of the
| board.
|
| From early 2024, we will be offering a pair of mechanical
| adapter boards which convert between this connector and a
| subset of the M.2 standard, allowing users to attach NVMe SSDs
| and other M.2-format accessories."
| tlamponi wrote:
| > Did you read the blog post? :)
|
| As you keep spamming this here, did you read the HN
| Guidelines[0]? > Please don't comment on
| whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the
| article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article
| mentions that".
|
| [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| gherard5555 wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
| betamist wrote:
| [flagged]
| gherard5555 wrote:
| [dead]
| Koshkin wrote:
| >> _Did you read the blog post? :)_
|
| > _did you read the HN Guidelines[0]?_
|
| OK...
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| FWIW, I boot my Pis almost exclusively from USB. Not that
| that's... _great_ in terms of speed or reliability, but it 's
| something.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| I have a Pi 4 and Pi 400 and boot them from NVMe (via USB).
|
| Combined with a portable LCD, it's a low-power dev
| workstation on a battery. ^_^
| rebelpixel wrote:
| This. I've had an always-on Pi 3 since 2016 and after
| countless random corruption issues from various micro SD
| cards, I moved to booting them from old USB2 flash drives,
| first an 8gb then an 16gb one. Never had an issue with them
| and they've been solid. I only had to mess with the flash
| drives when I had to do an OS upgrade.
|
| Also, those micro SD cards were always fine after a
| format/partition and I can still use them in other devices
| just fine. I've read before that the Pi has a tendency to
| corrupt micro SD cards through its reader, and IIRC it's
| related to power issues.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| You can netboot a Pi. Every Pi in my house netboots. I have a
| whole bunch of them. Some play games, some play videos, some
| play music, and a few other minor things. Because they all
| netboot, you can change what each one does by renaming a file
| on the server and then rebooting it. It's great.
| undersuit wrote:
| Every new Pi model needs a bit of time for the Netboot
| firmware to be worked out. I would research the RPi5 before
| you bought it today.
| reedlaw wrote:
| Do you have a guide or any tips on how to do this?
| rullopat wrote:
| You made me curious: what do use them for exactly?
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| One is the "smart" part of my smart TV. One powers my hifi.
| One connects my non-networked printer to the network.
|
| One is an NTP server which gets the time from GPS, although
| that one will probably be retired soon, internet time works
| fine.
|
| I used to have one inside a MAME cabinet but I upgraded it
| to a "real" PC because the Pi isn't really powerful enough
| for modern versions of MAME.
| spatular wrote:
| You can take a look at orange pi 5 plus. It has M.2 for WiFi
| and M.2 for SSD, both PCI-E. It's in $100+ category though.
| imtringued wrote:
| NVMe SSDs are so cheap now that you are literally wasting your
| time by not using them.
| m463 wrote:
| I haven't had much trouble with the SD cards. The thing is,
| writing to them all the time means your chances of corrupting
| the filesystem is higher (like any filesystem). I would try to
| make the filesystem read-only as much as possible. There are
| settings for this.
| lrem wrote:
| I've recently stumbled upon a SBC with a M.2 slot... Then
| promptly closed the tab, to stop the temptation to get another
| shiny dust collector. But they exist.
| spiderfarmer wrote:
| I have not broken a "max endurance" SD card yet. But they're
| pretty expensive.
| stevenhuang wrote:
| Reducing logging, logging to ram and writing to the sdcard once
| a day helps longevity a lot, especially with quality sd cards.
|
| 99% of the time it's the verbose logging of application servers
| that is the culprit of sdcard failures.
|
| https://github.com/azlux/log2ram
| liminalsunset wrote:
| This device has a PCIe 2.0 x1 connector now, so NVMe drives
| should be usable now.
|
| The Compute Module 4 series have been able to support eMMC
| chips, so I don't see why they wouldn't continue with the 5
| if/when it shows up
| mlyle wrote:
| > This device has a PCIe 2.0 x1 connector now, so NVMe drives
| should be usable now.
|
| It's a fiddly FPC connector though, which isn't a great
| contributor to mechanical robustness.
| martin_a wrote:
| Oh yeah, I've lost quite a few camera projects to these
| connectors with cables breaking, slipping out of the
| connector and whatnot. Maybe just a bad choice of cables,
| not sure.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| FPC is used in billions of devices with perfectly fine
| robustness. As long as it isn't part of some flexible
| mechanism (e.g., a flex display, or something folding), it
| should be just fine. If you toss it into a box with the FPC
| flopping in the breeze then I'm sure it would be terrible,
| but... don't do that?
| mlyle wrote:
| FPC is used in billions of devices-- that are
| professionally assembled, usually assembled only once,
| well-enclosed, and careful attention has been given to
| strain relief. It's cheap and compact and allows very
| small assemblies.
|
| It's not so hobbyist/tinkerer friendly, where you're
| likely to put a lot of cycles on the connector, bend
| things back and forth, and end up with an enclosure that
| does not protect everything as well as one would like.
| Indeed, you have a sibling comment talking about breaking
| lots of FPC going to cameras.
|
| Mechanical/connector failure is a small but noticeable
| share of the SD robustness problems on SBCs. I would
| expect FPC to be worse.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Again, this sounds overblown. Obviously the cables are
| somewhat fragile and you can't just be a brute with
| them... but the alternative is making a PCB that is much
| larger to accept a M.2 slot. It just isn't possible in
| the current footprint from what I can tell.
|
| Also, other connectors for this type have surprisingly
| low durability. Most M.2 slots are rated for extremely
| low mating cycles. Amphenonol, who I would considered to
| be an high quality manufacturer, rates their M.2 slots
| for '25-60' mating cycles total. Less than 100. Most
| manufacturers do not even specify the number of mating
| cycles.
| mlyle wrote:
| > but the alternative is making a PCB that is much larger
| to accept a M.2 slot. It just isn't possible in the
| current footprint from what I can tell.
|
| I'm not saying they made a bad choice; they're facing a
| lot of constraints and have a lot of IO to get out while
| staying hobbyist friendly.
|
| > Also, other connectors for this type have surprisingly
| low durability. Most M.2 slots are rated for extremely
| low mating cycles.
|
| Sure, but I don't -need- as many mating cycles for M.2,
| as it'd be screwed to the board and done. Whereas if I'm
| dealing with a Pi stackup and coming in and out of the
| case, I'm likely to get through the couple dozen cycles
| I'm allowed with FPC. And if I'm putting it on a
| vibration-intensive environment like a quadcopter, I need
| to be pretty dang careful with mechanicals.
|
| > Again, this sounds overblown.
|
| Everything's a tradeoff. Flex is cheap and small and
| offers versatility. It's also delicate and annoying.
| vGPU wrote:
| Agreed. I recently had the rather unpleasant discovery that
| when samsung called their SD cards "high endurance", they
| actually meant 3-6 months, and that half of the video on my
| dashcam was missing.
| corn13read2 wrote:
| Why aren't you talking more about the GPU?
| qwertox wrote:
| A NVMe compatible M.2 M Key connector (like the Rock 5 Model B
| [0] has) would have been really nice. I'm starting to accumulate
| old but good, yet small in storage space terms NVMe's which I'm
| no longer needing, but which would be perfect for a Raspi. Even
| if the PCIe bus were an older generation and not as performant as
| the NVMe.
|
| The microSD card slot is really great to have, to get up-and-
| running, but once it's clear which function the board will serve,
| being able to move over to a directly connected old NVMe would
| really be a benefit, also in terms of reliability. These microSD
| cards scare me, yet I make full use of them.
|
| Finally having a battery backed RTC on it is really great news.
|
| [0] https://wiki.radxa.com/Rock5/hardware/5b
| gerdesj wrote:
| You can get some rather large USB sticks these days. Amazon is
| awash with 928Gb units for about PS10 which are probably not
| the best. A 256GB or 512GB from a known brand is around
| PS30-50. There are several USB ports on a Pi and you can always
| boot off a SD card.
|
| Finally, if a network is available then network boot and use
| NFS or whatever.
|
| The RTC is a cool addition and long overdue. At work I have
| three Pi 3s with GPS hats and aerials acting as stratum 1 ntp
| servers. The hats have a RTC included which is handy after a
| reboot. My use case is "reasonably accurate and stable time" so
| sub milli second is good enough, I'm not too fussed about nano
| seconds! I want logs to correlate and desktop clocks to be
| reliable.
| Fnoord wrote:
| Or use USBv3 to NVMe enclosure. Cheap and good ones can be
| found on Ali.
| GOONIMMUNE wrote:
| FYI I believe all of those ~1TB $10-20 USB drives on amazon
| are scams- basically set up to trick your computer into
| showing a terabyte of disk space available, but not actually
| having that much available if you try to write it all. I was
| in the market for "largest reasonably priced usb drive"
| earlier this year and ended up with a 1 TB usb drive for
| about $80.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| Flash storage like USB sticks is a crude comparison to an SSD
| or NVMe with cache and a controller capable of parallel
| operations.
|
| A USB flash drive is like a dumpster. Big bandwidth when the
| lid is open but it's got poor performance for fetching and
| storing lots of things all the time.
|
| An SSD or NVMe is more like a rolling auto tool chest. Same
| big metal box, but much more performant for complex and
| numerous read and write loads.
|
| Or to use a computer analogy: SSD is like a hard disk, USB
| flash is like a tape drive.
| Fnoord wrote:
| On a CM5, a lite or one with eMMC would suffice in combination
| with NVMe. I have CM4 with eMMC and use SATA w/them.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| I recommend booting Pi 4 and Pi 400 from external (USB) NVMe in
| an enclosure.
| antx wrote:
| Indeed, but it's somewhat of a hassle. Having everything
| integrated on the board, or in the same case, is nicer.
| proxysna wrote:
| Same with orange pi5 and 5b. Having an option for a faster and
| reliable storage is amazing. SD cards are great when you
| prototype or need just enough storage to netboot a device, but
| past that it is limiting.
| teamonkey wrote:
| The blog post says they're releasing a M.2 hat in "early 2024"
| mintplant wrote:
| I don't love that you'll have to choose between PoE, M.2, or
| active cooling / a case.
| danbee wrote:
| You won't have to. They can all be stacked.
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| Would active cooling work underneath another hat?
| mbreese wrote:
| It looks like the M2 socket will be connected with a
| flexible ribbon, so it is possible that it could be
| mounted below.
| willis936 wrote:
| I'd welcome an M.2 shoe rather than a hat.
| bpye wrote:
| Also looks like PCIe is exposed via an FPC connector. You
| could probably come up with a scheme to have an M2 device
| mounted behind the board - if you really wanted.
|
| Only having a single lane of PCIe 2.0 is a little
| unfortunate. I wonder if the inevitable compute module
| will get more or not. It seems that their IO chip is also
| attached via PCIe but it provides a lot of the interfaces
| that you'd expect to have - so my hunch is that it'll be
| included on any CM5.
| rasz wrote:
| it can be forces into "experimental" 3.0 mode so thats
| something.
| arwhatever wrote:
| Then surely there must be competition or a record for
| "tallest ever," hopefully requiring each layer to be
| functional.
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| I think you can have over a hundred _different_ i2c
| devices connected to the same bus, so it 'd get pretty
| tall if you can power them all. 10-bit i2c (not very
| common) can do almost a thousand.
|
| Although, you'd need specific rules if you wanted to
| prevent someone just layering up always-on LED boards.
| ajb wrote:
| Nearly all I2C devices only allow you to set 1 or 2 of
| the address bits though.
| pclmulqdq wrote:
| Yeah, if you choose I2C devices randomly, I think you can
| expect to only get about 50-ish on a bus before you run
| into a collision.
| dmitrygr wrote:
| > you can have over a hundred different i2c devices
| connected to the same bus
|
| In theory sure, in a world with zero-inductance zero-
| capacitance busses and infinite-sink-current drivers. In
| our reality, however, you'll start having issues and
| start requiring stronger pullups and lower speeds long
| before you get to a hundred.
| MenhirMike wrote:
| Someone needs to make a Sega 32X hat to complete the
| Tower of Piwer?
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Fwiw I bought a sleeve for my M.2 SSD and it plugs into usb3
| with very little slowdown. It gets 500MiB read and 1.2GiB
| write. Haven't measured vs native M.2 to compare, but it's fast
| enough that I'd be surprised if the pi were blocked waiting for
| I/O vs native M.2. And native M.2 comes with increased
| manufacturing complexity.
| LtdJorge wrote:
| Are you sure it's 1.2GiB? The RPi comes with 5Gb/s USB ports,
| which is 596MiB/s
|
| Now that I think about it, Linux may be caching writes, but
| even then double the write speed compared to the read speed
| seems weird.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Oh, I didn't test on a pi, just a mac. And yeah the double
| write speed was super weird. Thanks for answering my
| internal question about why ~500MiB seemed to be the max.
| [deleted]
| schappim wrote:
| This would limit you to just connect SSDs. Their solution opens
| up more versatile access to other PCIe devices.
| mastax wrote:
| In addition to the ability to adapt M.2 slots into PCIe via
| an inexpensive adapter, there is a growing ecosystem of M.2
| cards for most of the things you'd use a PCIe card for. USB
| controllers, SATA controllers, Ethernet controllers, FPGAs,
| even display adapters.
| ltbarcly3 wrote:
| It would not limit you to just SSDs, the m.2 connector on the
| rk3588 devices generally exposes 4 pcie lanes and an adapter
| to make this a full pcie slot is already available. So really
| an m.2 nvme connector is the best of both, you can turn it
| into any other pcie connector you want via an adapter, but
| you can just put an nvme ssd directly on the board without a
| hat.
| 15155 wrote:
| The best part about M.2 E key is that it does not require
| +12V.
| synergy20 wrote:
| I somehow feel RPi5 is getting out of my "small fanless SBC"
| comfort zone, for embedded projects and products, RPi4 is more
| than enough for my needs, though I like its RTC and power button.
| gdevenyi wrote:
| Cool. Another raspberry pi I can't find in stock anywhere
| HALtheWise wrote:
| Given that they made custom silicon for the IO module, I'm
| disappointed that they didn't include a couple PIO cores in
| there. It would've been great to be able to use the GPIO pins to
| drive serial LEDs, as extra uart peripherals, or for any of the
| numerous other things people have developed for the RP2040 PIO.
| HALtheWise wrote:
| I stand corrected!
| fanf2 wrote:
| The RP1 has one PIO core (4 state machines)
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/...
| undersuit wrote:
| This RP1 chip has so many surprises.
| kristianpaul wrote:
| I was expecting both 16G and 24G models
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| Funny how the PCIe port has less bandwidth than the USB 3.0 ports
| (4Gbps vs. 5Gbps). But I'm sure there are latency or other
| benefits to PCIe.
| ivolimmen wrote:
| Using storage on USB 3 cost you processing power on the CPU but
| using PCI does not. As far as I know that is the only
| difference
| botanical wrote:
| I've said this before but I feel like the Raspberry Pi Foundation
| hasn't met its objective of making computers accessible and
| affordable to everyone (especially children in disadvantaged
| places). In South Africa, the average child from a disadvantaged
| background has no chance of buying a Pi.
|
| Arduino on the other hand, and them open sourcing the hardware
| means very cheap but less powerful SBCs from companies in China
| (and elsewhere). I hope to see something in a similar vein from
| them as they have the ecosystem and resources to mass produce
| very cheap boards, but the Pi itself is prohibitively expensive,
| and it looks like they cater to companies first and prioritise
| making a profit.
| schappim wrote:
| The Foundation is not the same as Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
| While the Foundation is hardware-agnostic, they have a
| particular fondness for the Raspberry Pi.
|
| > Arduino on the other hand, and them open sourcing the
| hardware means very cheap but less powerful SBCs from companies
| in China.
|
| You probably don't know that the Raspberry Pi Pico is now also
| produced in Africa (I only learned last week). It offers better
| value for money compared to the ATMEGA328P. Additionally,
| Raspberry Pi is actively supporting the development of hardware
| manufacturing skills in Africa.
| hnbad wrote:
| Raspberry Pi always felt more commercial than Arduino with a
| stronger focus on a branded range of products than providing a
| template for others to copy. We've even come to the point where
| it's no longer the cheapest option for what it provides at the
| same form factor. There are usually cheaper options with
| similar or even superior hardware even for things like the
| Raspberry Zero.
| drumhead wrote:
| I'm genuinely more excited about this than any other hardware
| release this year. Pricing is getting a bit high though.
| sampa wrote:
| I was hoping for usb-c outputs vs miniHDMI (yeah, I know, they
| probably want to be compatible ith rpi4 cases, but still...)
| [deleted]
| 000ooo000 wrote:
| Fyi
|
| >Will my Raspberry Pi 5 fit my Raspberry Pi 4 case?
|
| >Raspberry Pi 5 won't fit the Raspberry Pi 4 Case. We recommend
| the Raspberry Pi Case for Raspberry Pi 5, designed to help you
| get the most out of our newest computer.
| firemelt wrote:
| anyone could tell me how did you use raspberry pi?
| renegat0x0 wrote:
| My setup
|
| - nextcloud
|
| - django test environment
|
| - pihole
|
| - simple NAS
| rsaxvc wrote:
| Pi2 with RTLSDR to monitor local flights in the area.
|
| Pi4 for SSH server and general arm64 playground.
|
| Pair of Pi4 running Ardupilot and OpenHD, one on my quadcopter,
| one driving the base station monitor and antenna tracker.
| x0x0 wrote:
| I have a nice amp (Loxjie A30), but the bluetooth connection is
| both fidgety and subject to all the usual bluetooth
| incompetence (year 20 of the alpha test.)
|
| I have a raspberry pi running a spotify connect implementation
| outputting audio to the amp via usb. It sits there and silently
| (or, well, not so silently) works; it's great!
|
| There's some mucking with alsa to get it set up, but under 90
| minutes.
| askvictor wrote:
| Home server/media centre, serving :
|
| * Squeezebox music system
|
| * Plex video library
|
| * Homeassistant home automation
|
| * Retropie gaming
|
| * PiHole ad blocker (I have a second older pi running just this
| for redundancy)
|
| * Running a couple of minor web services and scripts on cron
| jobs.
| ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
| I use one to control my 3-D printer, with OctoPi. It also
| delivers a webcam feed, so I can monitor progress. Huge time-
| saver!
| avidiax wrote:
| * Fileserver (SMB)
|
| * Download agent (i.e. torrent, JDownloader, ARIA)
|
| * Tailscale exit node
|
| * Endlessh tarpit
|
| * Sadly more reliable than my Mac Mini when running server
| workloads (lots of open SMB files crash MacOS)
|
| And all of this at quite a low power dissipation, which is the
| primary expense in running a home server.
|
| I don't do these things, but could:
|
| * PiHole
|
| * Kodi or Plex STB
|
| * Add a hat and have an indoor air quality monitor or similar
| morjom wrote:
| I used my 3B+ as a Vaultwarden server and PiHole.
| bagels wrote:
| As a controller for my lawn sprinklers that adjusts watering
| time based on historical rainfall data. Better than adjusting
| it every few months manually.
|
| Custom cron job that uses:
|
| https://opensprinkler.com/product/opensprinkler-pi/
| euoia wrote:
| I use it as part of a till / ePOS system to run a small node /
| express http server that drives a receipt printer and cash
| drawer.
| codetrotter wrote:
| Yes! I've used RPi SBCs for various purposes over time:
|
| - One early RPi I bought when RPi was very new to the market. I
| played around with it for a while and then I put it in a
| drawer.
|
| - Months later I pulled it out of the drawer and started
| hosting my website on it for a while. I have since moved on
| from using RPi at home for hosting any of my sites. Might do
| again at some point in time.
|
| - I use an SBC as one of the pieces of electronics that I use
| for controlling over 9000 LED pixels on a sculpture for which I
| created the light setup and programming. The LED strips we
| bought are from China and were supposed to be IP65 but even so
| we now have a bunch of the pixels showing only red, which is
| bad. No fault of the SBC. Also the SBC in this installation is
| not an RPi. But relevant nonetheless.
|
| - I hooked up an image sensor with a lens to an RPi and put it
| in a surveillance camera housing, and added PoE to it.
| Currently not in use but would like to deploy somewhere in the
| future if given the chance to do so.
|
| - I have an RPi that I have connected a 5TB drive to in an
| enclosure I bought from AliExpress. This RPi I both ssh into
| from my phone to download things for the future, and I also run
| a squid proxy on it via which one of my laptops connect.
| a1o wrote:
| If you pair the raspberry pi with cache in cloudfare I think
| you can host on it - I haven't tried it myself, but have been
| thinking about it.
| codetrotter wrote:
| > If you pair the raspberry pi with cache in cloudfare I
| think you can host on it
|
| Yup. That's actually what I did :)
|
| And then the reason I stopped hosting my site on my RPi was
| because I felt like, well if I depend on Cloudflare
| anyways, I might as well just use a VPS, or GitHub pages,
| or Cloudflare Pages :p
|
| But there is something appealing in hosting things from
| home still. And doubly so when doing it without relying on
| Cloudflare etc
|
| What I will do however, is that next time I set up some
| internet reachable hosting of content at home I will
| maintain one version of it that is directly served from the
| machine at home itself, and then I will keep an up to date
| copy of it on one of my externally hosted servers.
| nixarn wrote:
| Mine's reading temperature, humidity and pressure from sensors
| and uploading it to a VPS. My second one that is, my first one
| hasn't done more than collect dust.
| lproven wrote:
| > my first one hasn't done more than collect dust.
|
| If you mean a Raspberry Pi 1, try RISC OS.
|
| Very un-Unix-like, predates Linux by nearly a decade. Single-
| core and goes very fast on a Pi 1.
|
| https://www.riscosdev.com/direct/
| cptskippy wrote:
| You can do that with the lowly ESP8266.
|
| https://imgur.com/a/UhL4OuD
| fulafel wrote:
| Cool stuff.
|
| Connectivity can tilt towards RPi, you can do vpn, ipv6,
| mobile data (if you use a usb stick), ethernet etc.
| benwilson-512 wrote:
| The processing unit in my espresso machine died and was back
| ordered for 4 months, so raspberry pi to the rescue!
|
| Is that much processing power necessary? Not even a little, but
| hey now it hosts its own web UI (local network only).
|
| Firmware (Elixir, nerves):
| https://github.com/benwilson512/coffee_time/blob/a49814e5d8a...
| Fnoord wrote:
| I use
|
| * 1 CM4 for a PiKVM on my desktop (my main home server uses a
| proprietary iLO).
|
| * 1 CM4 as router running OpenWrt, to replace my ER-Lite.
|
| * 3 CM4s in a Turing Pi 2, one Jetson Orin for ML. This is my
| homelab. The CM4 are running Dietpi.
|
| * 2 RPi4 as remote VPN (Wireguard) endpoints to do tech support
| for my mother-in-law and mother. Also serves as Jellyfin server
| containing old movies, and jumphost for NAS backup.
|
| * 2 RPi0 2 W with Enviro+. One indoor, one outdoor (with
| different, custom 3D printed casings). Runs Raspbian, will
| switch these to Dietpi.
|
| * 1 RPi3 for with my portable HackRF (with custom 3D printed
| case). Batteries included!
|
| * 1 RPi0 W for Pwnagotchi. Not really used anymore but too cute
| to break.
|
| * 1 RPi0 W for Pimoroni grow to track water management in
| plants (with 3D printed case). Need to get that project moving,
| it is for my mother.
|
| All my Docker containers run on my main server but I'm
| considering to switch to my Turing Pi 2. I got solar, so the
| Xeon is OK for now, but still...
|
| Then I got: 1 RPi3B+, 1 CM4, 1 RPi2B, 1 RPi0 W. I should sell
| as they're right now 'Raspberry Piles'. Won't use them. To be
| frank I'd like to upgrade the RPi3 with the portable HackRF at
| some point, and once I get a 3D printer I might need Octoprint
| so I suppose I could use one of these machines for that.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| I made one into a time-lapse camera and shot a five month time
| lapse video. Learned a good bit of computational photography in
| the process.
|
| https://youtu.be/cyh0QJT0rAQ?si=Tcf-CjcD8BFZgSDq
| dm270 wrote:
| Home Assistant for home automation. Homematic for HVAC
| integration. Syncthing for backing up my phone's data.
|
| And last but not least just a Linux machine to ssh into to play
| around with.
| fragmede wrote:
| Courtesy of https://xeiaso.net/blog/gokrazy
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37583234 ); a "go" link
| shortener, memegen, and pastebin.
|
| I also wired up my garage remote to it, so I can hit a web page
| to open up my garage.
| fulafel wrote:
| Lots of them are also going into commercial products, eg
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/production-and-supply-chain...
| from a time of tight supply said "We spend a lot of time on
| backlog management. We have to balance volume demand from
| commercial and industrial customers with the demand we see from
| individuals. Right now we feel the right thing to do is to
| prioritise commercial and industrial customers - the people who
| need Raspberry Pis to run their businesses - we're acutely
| aware that people's livelihoods are at stake."
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| The Raspberry Pi CM4 is the main system processor for our open
| source solar powered farming robot called Acorn. I designed a
| custom motherboard for it in Kicad. We also use the Raspberry
| Pi RP2040 processor on our custom dual brushless motor
| controllers (also designed in Kicad).
|
| https://community.twistedfields.com/t/january-2023-update-ne...
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| I've got one setup at work as a display for some networked
| security cameras. Displays 4 concurrent 720p streams on a TV
| for the office 24/7. Cheaper than Ubiquiti's solution [0] as we
| didn't need more than the 4 streams.
|
| At home I've got one for Home Assistant, one as a TV box
| because Netflix's sharing blocking check is only on smart TV
| apps. I've also got multiple as 3D printer controllers
| (klipper/octoprint).
|
| [0] https://store.ui.com/us/en/pro/category/all-cameras-
| nvrs/pro...
| 72deluxe wrote:
| My Pi4 (8GB ram) runs:
|
| 1. Mox mail server at home (PTR record set up with ISP) -
| https://github.com/mjl-/mox.
|
| 2. Web server (no external hosting hurray); TLS set up via
| LetsEncrypt.
|
| 3. Navidrome for streaming my music collection to my
| phone/computers. I ripped my thousands of CDs to MP3. I use
| subtracks on my phone for listening to it, and sonixd on my
| computers (Mac/PC). https://github.com/navidrome/navidrome
|
| 4. mpd for driving some speakers via a USB audio interface so I
| can use some speakers plugged into the Pi for listening to
| music in the same room as the Pi (practicing guitar). I control
| this via the Supersonic app on my phone.
|
| 5. Wireguard VPN so I can connect home.
|
| 6. PiHole for my network at home. Combined with Wireguard, it
| means my phone is permanently connected to my home network and
| gets ad-blocking and stops apps dialing home. I use DroidHole
| on my phone to see what's going on.
|
| 7. xrdp server running, so a usable desktop is always
| available.
|
| 8. miniDLNA running connected to a NAS box so that I can watch
| all my DVDs easily on my TV downstairs (I spent weeks ripping
| them).
|
| 9. Tuya IoT API for turning some smart plugs in the house
| on/off via cronjob; I do this instead of using the timer in
| their app because it means my phone can be off the
| network/abroad and these plugs/lights still turn on/off.
|
| 10. linx-server (https://github.com/andreimarcu/linx-server)
| for sharing files so that I don't have to use Google Drive and
| share with people that way.
|
| 11. Peer Calls (https://github.com/peer-calls/peer-calls) so I
| can video conference in decent quality without having to use
| Google Meet / Teams etc. I also host a STUN and TURN server on
| the Pi so that Peer Calls works behind NAT.
|
| 12. Runs CUPS so that my very cheap Samsung wireless laser
| printer actually shows up as an AirPrint printer for my wife's
| iPad/iPhone and shows up in Android printing. (The printer does
| not natively have AirPrint capability but CUPS means I can
| provide it to users on the network).
|
| It fetches time over NTP on a cron job. It also blocks various
| ASNs and IPs by country on a cron job to stop annoying remote
| pests and cloud providers. It also runs Monitorix so I can see
| system load, and goaccess on a cron job so that I can see who's
| hitting my website without having to resort to analytics
| nonsense.
|
| It boots from USB3 (it has a NVMe in an IcyBox caddy).
|
| Incredibly useful device.
| riddley wrote:
| Out of curiosity, why run NTP from cron vs ntpd or chrony?
| pmontra wrote:
| The only one I'm using now is a Pi 3 (B?) with a DVB TV hat.
| I'm using it to stream broadcast TV to my tablet or phone. I
| can watch TV anywhere in my house. I very rarely turn on my TV
| now.
|
| I have another PI in a drawer as backup. I replaced all of them
| with Odroid since it became nearly impossible to buy Pis. I
| wonder if they'll start to make them available again to normal
| people but I don't know if I'm trusting the company anyway.
| betamist wrote:
| Home assistant instance with zigbee usb dongle, Volumio
| receiver connected to my speakers, screen for calendar, plant
| monitor, and for a while as a Kodi station.
| zoomTo125 wrote:
| mostly as a jump host
| poulpy123 wrote:
| I used for some years a raspberry pi 2b as a media player with
| kodi. Then a bit as octoprint server to control a 3D printer.
|
| I will explore a way to use a RP4 or now RP5 for a local NAS
| that would be extensible and that could run more services and
| yool that my current QNAP TS-28A but I'm not very confident I
| will follow
| obscurette wrote:
| - Two LibreELEC (https://libreelec.tv/) mediaplayers in house
| (yes, one is not enough in my big family).
|
| - One for hosting low usage applications at home network (Unifi
| controller and some more).
|
| - Octoprint (https://octoprint.org) connected to the
| 3d-printer.
|
| - One on my desk for hardware hacking - mostly as just a PC
| with GPIO.
|
| - Some wireless Raspberry Pi Zeros as security cameras.
| Jaxan wrote:
| I run Nextcloud on it, to backup and sync documents at home. I
| just bought a 128GB sd card instead of using external storage
| via usb.
| ivolimmen wrote:
| The lifetime of an external USB drive is better than the SD
| card. My PINE64 after a few years stopped working due to the
| SD card giving up. It was a pain to recover my database from
| it but I did manage... that is why I am interested in this PI
| because of the PCI interface...
| Renaud wrote:
| An older one as a PiHole for my home.
|
| A Rpi3 as an octoprint server for my 3D oeubter, including
| canera feed.
|
| A friend uses his as a HomeAssistant server to monitor and
| manage his home lights, temperature and garden watering needs.
|
| And I have one as a nifty remote KVM (TinyPilot) that we also
| use for work. Connect it to the Internet and a PC and you can
| control that machine remotely.
|
| Also use it as a Windows RDP thinclient.
|
| And to tinker on electronic projects.
| justusthane wrote:
| RPi 4: - VPN server (Wireguard) - Network
| ad blocking (Pihole) - DNS resolver (unbound) -
| DynamicDNS client All running in Docker containers.
|
| RPi 3: - Home Assistant for home automation.
|
| I also have a Pi Zero that I intend to use to drive an e-ink
| screen for a wall-mounted display, but I haven't set that up
| yet.
|
| Previously I've also used the RPi 3 running AirPlay and hooked
| up to external speakers as a poor man's Sonos.
| kristopolous wrote:
| It's my Wi-Fi hotspots, gateway, and network servers. I've got
| more powerful machines but it can route packets, serve http
| requests, manage dhcp, simple things like that without problem.
|
| I use a USB 3.0 Ethernet cable for the second port. It can keep
| up just fine.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Two for PiHole (primary and backup DNS)
|
| One for Stratum 0 NTP server (using GSP module with PPS)
|
| One for Home Assistant
|
| One for monitoring the solar power at my cabin, using a 4G USB
| device to send data home.
|
| The Home Assistant runs on a 4B, the others are using 3B's and
| a clone (NanoPi Zero).
|
| Got some Pi 4's that I use for various Linux experimentation
| and such. Sometimes I find it easier to get a Pi 4 up and
| running than a VM, and other times I need the GPIOs.
| spacechild1 wrote:
| various multi-media art installations
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| It conttrols sensors in my desk drawers and notifies me when I
| have space to buy more Raspberry Pis.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| This _does_ describe a specific class of ANTESACH (Absurd
| Nerd Tinkerer Enjoys Sensors And Cheap Hardware).
|
| Thank you for the laugh.
| alexellisuk wrote:
| Hi, I've been testing the RPi5 for a few weeks and have written
| up my results and benchmarks on Twitter.
|
| https://x.com/alexellisuk/status/1707296079849365650?s=20
|
| This is so much quicker for clusters, servers and headless use,
| that I don't think I'd consider buying any more RPi4s myself.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Are those results available anywhere else?
| MilaM wrote:
| My thought as well. I can only see one tweet, no replies. I'm
| guessing it's a thread, and you need to have an account to
| read the replies?
| Fnoord wrote:
| Replace x.com or twitter.com with nitter.net ie.
|
| [1]
| https://nitter.net/alexellisuk/status/1707296079849365650
| geerlingguy wrote:
| I've posted separately some test data:
| https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-reviews/issues/21
| justinclift wrote:
| https://nitter.net/alexellisuk/status/1707296079849365650
| Fnoord wrote:
| Good, then the price of second hand RPi4 will go down as it has
| been ridiculously expensive (even though I'm settled, still
| makes me happy for other people).
|
| I'll wait for a CM module before I consider to replace my CM4
| fleet, but for now I am happy with my CM4 as it is. Although I
| admit the ability for native NVMe is attractive. Better I/O as
| well!
|
| Also, the RPi5 needs a better PSU so that is one thing to take
| into account.
|
| For people for whom a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 is good enough, they
| should opt for that instead. They're widely available and no
| longer ridiculous prices.
| 000ooo000 wrote:
| What would someone excited about the improved specs on the 5 be
| using a Pi for? I have 1-2 of each gen, but to me, they aren't
| devices I would use if I needed grunt. They're just solid little
| low power, low heat devices for running odds and ends. Curious
| what people who are pushing them hard are using them for.
| Pathogen-David wrote:
| I used a Pi 4 as a CI server for a previous project. While
| speed wasn't critical (it was fast enough for me to not care
| save for one rarer multi-hour job that was usually cached) I
| certainly would've welcomed the improvements the Pi 5 is
| bringing.
| teamonkey wrote:
| I don't know why people would select a RPi for something that
| needed raw CPU speed, but the new IO chip is a winner for me.
| The IO has sucked on all Raspberry Pis to date. I tried to use
| a Pi 4 connected to a USB3 HDD as a wireless NAS and it was
| abysmally slow, despite the CPU never breaking a sweat.
| spacechild1 wrote:
| I use my RPis for multi-media installations, with at least 2
| cores almost maxed out. So I am quite excited about this
| announcement :)
| akomtu wrote:
| Price? That's what makes raspi different, after all.
| codetrotter wrote:
| Price is actually secondary at this point. The primary
| advantage of the RPi over a lot of other SBCs is how widespread
| its use is, and all of the addons you can buy for it.
| MarcScott wrote:
| $60 and $80 according to
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
| Iulioh wrote:
| I don't mean the price but the _price_
|
| I'm kinda tired on not being able to buy a PI because the
| production is so limited...
| ytch wrote:
| Out of curiosity, does 5V/5A USB-C changer common?
|
| All of my USB-C Chargers has 5V/3A only.
| sankhao wrote:
| They're not, and it's a very annoying requirement. Even 5V/3A
| was hard to provide reliably. On the other hand, rock pi
| supports 12V/2A, which modern chargers will provide without any
| issue.
| lonjil wrote:
| Anything that can't supply 5V/3A is not a modern charger,
| that combination is mandated by USB-PD for anything that can
| provide 15W.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| 5V/5A means at least 25W. Plenty of chargers at that level and
| above on Amazon.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| 25W is easy, but most of them will not do it at 5V. I checked
| one of my 100W chargers, it'll only do 5A @ 20V. 3A at every
| other voltage. Looking at many other chargers on Amazon do
| the same.
| zweifuss wrote:
| I just did a quick review on Amazon of adapters ranging from
| 30 to 120W. Not a single one claimed to support 5V/5A DC.
| Only a couple claimed 5V/4.5A and they were expensive. 5V/3A
| is common in the $15+ category.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Most 65W chargers are 20V/3A. Standard USB cables are built
| to carry at most 2-3A, and e-marker cable authentication
| chips are required for 5A, I believe, because people running
| 100W on a random USB cable is scary.
|
| Chargers that would do 5V/5A probably do PD 20V/5A as well, =
| 100W. Or it'll be a non-conforming special Pi PSU of sorts.
| dheera wrote:
| Oof, this sucks. I wish they supported the wide variety of
| Anker/Apple/etc. USB-PD chargers out there that can deliver
| 100W so I can use my existing power bricks. None of them do
| 5V5A though, they just created yet another nonstandard piece of
| "USB-C" equipment and it's going to suck.
| liminalsunset wrote:
| It does not appear to be common, or at least, it's not in the
| spec. Per USB-C spec, chargers only have to supply 3A at
| various voltages, with 5A used only for the 100W 20V profile.
|
| If you buy a charger advertised to support "PPS" at 65W or so
| or more, you are more likely to get one that does this, though
| not all will actually do it.
| ytch wrote:
| Thanks for all reply, I guess it's my misunderstanding on the
| 5V/5A requirement:
|
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
|
| > When using a standard 5V, 3A (15W) USB-C power adapter with
| Raspberry Pi 5, by default we must limit downstream USB current
| to 600mA to ensure that we have sufficient margin to support
| these workloads.
|
| Therefore 5V/3A can still boot RPi5, but it cannot provide
| enough power to its USB-A port. Therefore it cannot use
| something like 12V/2A, since RPi5 doesn't have transformer
| circuit on its board.
| nottorp wrote:
| "Raspberry Pi Active Cooler"
|
| Id like a low power model too please. Also a m.2 slot, even sata
| would be much better than the sd cards.
| 0xcoffee wrote:
| Is there any way to get notified when the resellers make pre-
| ordering available?
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(page generated 2023-09-28 23:01 UTC)