[HN Gopher] My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards
___________________________________________________________________
My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards
Author : jandeboevrie
Score : 100 points
Date : 2023-09-26 12:22 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (jackevansevo.github.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (jackevansevo.github.io)
| pelalmqvist wrote:
| I might be biased by spending too much time watching people dive
| into the hobby of mechanical keyboards, but I'm impressed he
| found the strenght to not go too far into it.
| sime2009 wrote:
| I'm just surprised that this low level of engagement with
| keyboards is considered on the "unhealthy" side of the fence. I
| mean, this is only about 5 keyboards and not even owned at the
| same time.
| stevev wrote:
| I almost feel that people might be surprised if they knew
| just how extensive and diverse the world of custom keyboards
| truly is.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| I own seven, at the moment. One is an IBM Model M buckling
| spring keyboard (1983, needs a PS2-to-USB adaptor). Two
| others I use daily, including the Das Keyboard (Cherry MX
| Blues) I'm typing this on.
|
| My latest is the Launch Heavy with Kaith Brown keys that
| arrived yesterday (with a new system). It's replacing a
| gaming keyboard I've had for more than a decade.
|
| I'm not even "in to keyboards," I've simply been using
| computer equipment at home for so long that I have them
| around.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| Right. My unhealthy relationship with keyboards is that I
| have 5 of them which I use on a regular basis, but I haven't
| bothered update to the same version of my custom firmware, so
| they differ in subtle and maddening ways--but none more
| maddening than going back to a standard layout.
|
| I'm happy for this person that they so utterly lack an
| awareness of what an unhealthy relationship actually looks
| like. Although a small evil part of me wants to send then a
| mountain of cocaine so they can find out.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| I'll send you my address
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| Apologies for the clickbait headline.
|
| My dad worked in IT and used the same keyboard for like 20+
| years. Part of me hopes that one day I can find a board that
| survives for an extended period of time, but I guess modern
| spending habits and build quality has changed. I have to buy
| a new phone every 2/3 years for the same reasons.
| acheron wrote:
| I bought my Unicomp Model M 15+ years ago and it's still
| perfectly great.
| pxc wrote:
| My current favorite keyboard is a Unicomp Mini M, and my
| collection includes a couple of IBM Model Ms, which I
| grew up typing on.
|
| It's basically a slightly nicer mechanical tenkeyless
| than the original IBM SSK: lighter, slimmer, native USB,
| and more simultaneous keypresses, but still hefty and
| solid, with the same buckling spring action and wonderful
| curved backplate.
|
| Unicomp's brand new Model M keyboards are also quite
| affordable by custom keyboard standards: $125 for a New
| Model M, $150 for a buckling spring Mac keyboard, and
| $150 for the excellent Mini M.
|
| I have some of the more common, modular custom keyboards
| with the Cherry-compatible switches and all that. By and
| large, they're more expensive and more work to get into
| an agreeable actuation force range if you're used to
| dealing with real buckling spring switches. At the same
| time, the actuation force curve is never quite right
| because the 'tactile bump' of such a switch always
| involves a brief _spike_ in actuation force instead of
| the regular increase and then collapsing action you get
| with a buckling spring.
|
| If you've never used a buckling spring keyboard, you may
| find that you prefer some of the newer switches,
| especially the ones that don't imitate the 'clickiness'
| or heaviness of IBM/Unicomp buckling spring switches. But
| IMHO a brand new buckling spring keyboard is not just
| cheaper but plain better to type on them any of the more
| expensive, more 'modern' options.
| spear wrote:
| I happily used my Unicomps for more than 15 years.
| They're still fine but I got a Model F reproduction a
| couple of years ago. It's much more expensive but the
| feel is even better!
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| To my mind, an unhealthy relationship with a keyboard comes down
| to an unhealthy keyboard design.
|
| My criteria for a healthy keyboard, ordered by importance DESC:
|
| * ergonomic with split ( e.g. Goldtouch , MSFT Natural series ,
| Adesso)
|
| * backlit
|
| * silent but with durable switches (there is enough noise in the
| world)
|
| * Bluetooth or unified receiver for both mouse and keyboard (
| e.g. Logitech )
|
| * if there is a trackball or touchpad, there must also be buttons
| to maintain full drag-drop and copy-paste functionality
|
| Rather than fuss about the switches, I recommend that coders
| assemble a reliable set of ergonomic components (portable LCD,
| keyboard) that connect to $somebox via a docking station.
|
| $someboxen will come and go, but aim to preserve comfort and
| safety.
| EtienneK wrote:
| I was expecting to see 10s of keyboards as you'd see from most in
| r/MechanicalKeyboards and was disappointed to only find 5.
|
| Not an unhealthy relationship at all!
| walteweiss wrote:
| Ditto! A couple of random (not even a custom built) mechanical
| keyboards, plus an Apple one, plus MX Masters (the most popular
| keyboard, I assume). Even me, I had tried like 10 times more
| keyboards. And I'm not even obsessed with them, just your
| average computer nerd with 20+ years of experience and friends,
| with whom I can swap keyboards, to play with.
| jseliger wrote:
| I eventually wound up with Kinesis ergo keyboards and stopped
| being much "into" keyboards; they are a means to an end:
| https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-
| the-k....
|
| Now I have an Advantage 3 with Box White switches, after
| admittedly talking to an Upgrade Keyboards key switch
| sommelier, which I admit somewhat undercuts my first sentence
| in this comment.
| philote wrote:
| I love my Kinesis Advantage 2 keyboard, it's saved my
| hands/wrists. How's the 3 in comparison?
| dietsche wrote:
| The 3 is basically the same except you have real F keys and
| can upload settings to it via USB. Both are great
| keyboards. I've used them for well over a decade.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I went from 1's and 2's w/ custom controllers to a
| 360pro. It's largely the same board in terms of geometry.
| There are a few more keys, which are welcome, it's ZMK
| programmable (pro only). The writ wrests, extra, are
| better and don't seem to deform/wear out like the old
| ones. It's much less 'hollow', feels much more solid. The
| tenting is pretty awesome, the split is welcome. I would
| buy the pbt keys for extra $, the keys they ship are
| shit. I also pulled the DSA homerow from one of my
| advantages and used it here, they moved away from those
| special home row caps for cost reasons.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I switched to advantages more than 20 years ago, but i still
| keep building new mechanicals, a couple for me (playing games
| on an advantage is ... hilarious), some for friends. But I
| hear this. I went to a 360pro with browns (because I ordered
| it direct before the upgrade keyboards stuff went live).
| Maybe I'll swap them out some day (one of the used advantage
| 2s I picked up a few years back was the RedLF model and I
| thought I'd hate it, but for 50$ who can refuse, but I found
| myself preferring it over the brown model).
| ako wrote:
| I recently purchased an Alice format ergonomic keyboard, the
| keychron k15 pro [1]. It has a split design, but otherwise
| it's totally flat. How much of an improvement do you think a
| more ergonomically shaped keyboard l8ke a kinesis makes?
|
| [1]: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k15-pro-
| alice-lay...
| out-of-ideas wrote:
| i really miss the 12 or 18 macro keys to the left side of
| the keyboard of the ol logitech G15 and G110.
|
| have you used this for gaming? specifically FPSs and
| MMORPGs where left hand needs easy access to the right side
| of the split-keyboard?
| ako wrote:
| No, don't know how this works for gaming, my gaming is
| limited to some formula 1 on an xbox.
| normaler wrote:
| I have been using the Freestyle Pro for the last 4 years now
| and it has ended me thinking about keyboards. I was really
| looking forward to the new super fancy one, but that felt too
| expensive when I already have one I am happy with it. ~600
| Euros in DE when I remember correctly.
| toyg wrote:
| Same here. I've been a Kinesis fan since 2012 and went
| through several Freestyles, and for the last 5 years or so
| I've rocked the Edge (basically a Pro with rgb lights and
| mech switches). I was really looking forward to the
| Advantage360 but the UK price is mental: PS590 for the
| cordless version. Yes, it's a great keyboard that will
| likely last a decade, but I'm not convinced the gains are
| big enough to justify the cost.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| > key switch sommelier
|
| I genuinely hope this is someone's official job title
| somewhere.
| speed_spread wrote:
| I'm imagining some fancy and twisted vilain's startup
| operation as in a 90's hacker movie.
|
| "How about some cherry mx blue and caviar while we take
| over the world?"
| rewmie wrote:
| > eventually wound up with Kinesis ergo keyboards and stopped
| being much "into" keyboards;
|
| Aren't those like $500 a pop? Handing out that kind of dough
| for a keyboard sounds like the opposite of stopping being
| much into keyboards.
| toyg wrote:
| When the alternative is sore wrists and a bad back,
| stopping you from working altogether, the price is
| justified.
|
| This said, they used to be cheaper.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I'd almost surely have lost my career in software if it
| weren't for _some solution_ (the solution of which for me
| was a Kinesis Advantage). I used the PS2 version for a
| decade, then bought a USB version, which I 've used for at
| least 20 years at this point. I bought both used, but if
| I'd paid 2x the new price, it would still have been well
| worth it.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| $500 is nothing for a tool that protects your hands and
| upper body. carpal tunnel, thoracic outlet syndrome, other
| kinds of RSI are no joke.
| atoav wrote:
| Depends? Do you go into eagle-search-mode after you
| exvacated the keyboard buried under piles of paper once a
| month? Then 500 dollars is excessive.
|
| Do you type things 8 hours a day? Then 500 USD for a
| keyboard that lasts you two decades is money well spent, if
| it makes you happy.
| filoleg wrote:
| Someone owning only one car, and it being a $100k+
| Mercedes, probably means they aren't into cars as a hobby.
| They found a great vehicle they like and can afford, they
| enjoy driving it regularly, and it meets all of their
| needs. There is nothing wrong with that, and, in fact, it
| sounds awesome.
|
| However, someone who has 5-6 sub-$10k cars in their garage
| is almost definitely very into cars. It is about tinkering
| with them, racing them, restoring, building project cars,
| doing car shows, collecting them, etc. Doesn't have to be
| all of those at all, just any single one (including those I
| haven't explicitly mentioned there) would be more than
| enough.
|
| The pricing doesn't have much to do with someone being into
| a hobby. My personal guess is that it is more about how
| much time you actively dedicate to it.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| They are, but up until the new split version came out I
| used the same keyboard since ~2001. I picked up a couple
| more for sub 100$ when i saw them on craigslist/offerup.
| One for home, one for the office, a spare, and one to lend
| out.
|
| Like others I credit my first kinesis with saving my
| career. I was starting to get RSI issues, doctor put me in
| braces and I showed him the kinesis site to see what he
| thought about their claims, if any of his other patients
| had tried. He thought it passed the smell test, I bought
| one the next day and drove out to the HQ (they are near
| seattle) and picked it up.
|
| It takes a bit to get used to it, especially if you aren't
| a strong touch typist. The columner layout is weird at
| first, the wells are weird at first, the thumb clusters are
| weird at first. Within a month I was back up to speed and
| was able to shed my bracers soon after.
| troll_v_bridge wrote:
| >Aren't those like $500 a pop? Handing out that kind of
| dough for a keyboard sounds like the opposite of stopping
| being much into keyboards.
|
| A keyboard can last 20+ years, while a computer around 5
| years before it becomes obsolete, more or less. People buy
| other keyboards because it's missing something. The kinesis
| while not perfect is the best keyboard you can buy without
| building your own from scratch. Nothing comes close, except
| datahand, but they don't make those anymore. I stopped
| buying keyboards after the kinesis.
| eichin wrote:
| yeah, I often have more keyboards than that on my _desk_ at one
| time. (But as someone who knows Marcin Wichary and Jesse
| Vincent - I don 't have a problem, I _am_ the problem :)
| Beijinger wrote:
| [flagged]
| taneq wrote:
| It's like those articles on gaming addiction where they're like
| "Anthony (27) spends up to 8 hours a week playing an online
| game, and his parents are worried about him!"
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Meanwhile, most respondents to this post use a keyboard daily
| for 8+ hours to do work that's valued extremely highly.
|
| Have you seen an auto mechanic's toolbox, or carpenter's tool
| crib?
|
| Using the wrong tool, or even one which is only a few percent
| less efficient than optimal, is a mistake.
| laylomo2 wrote:
| Betcha everyone is using qwerty too :)
| hnreport wrote:
| [flagged]
| coreyh14444 wrote:
| I was going to do the Crocodile Dundee "That's not a knife,
| this is a knife" routine on this one. Taeha Types, Glarses,
| Hipyo Tech, Switch and Click, et al, would like to have a word.
| coreyh14444 wrote:
| And I'm typing this on a fully custom, hand soldered, hand
| lubed, modded Maja V2 from KBDFans and MT3 keycaps from Drop.
| Easily costs more than all those boards in that post
| combined. And let's just say this is not my only keyboard.
| taneq wrote:
| You can't just say that and not post build pics of
| keyboard. :D
|
| (A couple of Das Keyboards here and only one is even
| modified, but let's say I'm mechanical-curious. :P )
| coreyh14444 wrote:
| https://photos.app.goo.gl/xesqNgwBmZcrss6P6 I should do
| some better glamour shots to do it justice :)
| wussboy wrote:
| I love this. I've spent countless hours and hundreds of
| dollars pursuing an "Ortholinear Ms Natural 4000 with
| Cherry MX Blues". Custom laser cut outs. Hand wire
| wrapped. Custom firmware.
|
| It was tons of fun. But at the end of the day, I keep
| coming back to my Ergodox. I'm just so used to it now
| after all these years I don't think I could give it up.
| hnreport wrote:
| [flagged]
| J_Shelby_J wrote:
| It's a neat hobby!
|
| Honestly, all you really need is to lube the switches.
| That's biggest benefit. A lubed mechanical switch, even the
| cheapest generic red, out performs anything off the shelf.
| coreyh14444 wrote:
| Totally agree. You can take a basic mechanical keyboard
| from Amazon with hot swap switches, lube them. Maybe do a
| basic tape mod (just put masking tape on the back of the
| PCB) and get like 85% of the benefit of a high end
| keyboard. This is what I've done for the rest of my
| family's keyboards.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| I presume you use the blue painters masking tape? Normal
| masking tape tends to turn into either horrible goo or
| powder.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| What does the tape mod do?
| nickstinemates wrote:
| Improves the sound, basically.
| w0m wrote:
| Gasket mount was the biggest difference to me outside of
| the initial mechanical switch.
|
| Now I have a number of mechanicals (i love, or did..)
| that I side-eye as they don't have that hearty damp at
| the end. :/
|
| (i consistently work at 3 desks, only have gasket on one)
| rewmie wrote:
| > It's a neat hobby!
|
| The same can be said about heroin.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| I tried all the profiles that existed up to 2021 or so, and
| MT3 is really the best keycap profile;
| chongli wrote:
| Yeah I don't think any of these folks have that much of an
| issue. Compare with the people spending thousands or even
| millions of dollars on little rectangles of printed paperboard
| and locking them away inside little display cases!
| m463 wrote:
| My keyboard journey led me to a committed ltr with a topre
| realforce rgb, with the dampeners added under the keys. My
| mouse is a left handed steelseries sensei 10.
| hinkley wrote:
| I'm counting 6 plus a plan to buy another before the end of the
| year.
| phero_cnstrcts wrote:
| I have bought at least twice as many keyboards as this dude -
| build 15 from scratch plus designed my own low profile hand
| wired dactyls - and I don't have a problem.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Perhaps that's normal in the enthusiast communities you
| frequent, and perhaps it should be normal for members in a
| society as dependent on typing as modern humans, but you're
| definitely quite a few standard deviations away from the
| mean.
|
| Heck, in my engineering office (a bubble if there ever was
| one) there are only two other people who own more than one
| keyboard at home or know what a "mechanical" keyboard is, and
| most of us only have a couple 'special' keyboards. Most of my
| family and non-work friends have either one or zero, if you
| don't count on-screen keyboards on phones and tablets or
| integrated keyboards on laptops (which I don't think should
| count).
| phero_cnstrcts wrote:
| Yeah, it was a bit tongue in cheek. The thing is that once
| you try something that isn't the 20 dollar Walmart keyboard
| but a good ergonomic keyboard, heck, even a half assed,
| ergo keyboard - you realize how much better things could
| be. And down the rabbit hole you go. I'm hoping it's a
| phase. But it's also a fun hobby. Albeit a costly one.
| walteweiss wrote:
| Would love to read your thoughts on that, if you'd ever be up
| to that.
| phero_cnstrcts wrote:
| I'm not much of a writer. I do it mostly to optimize
| comfort while coding. I did think about posting some pics
| from my journey and my custom Zmk/qmk setup and key layout.
| But alas, there are many things to work on besides
| keyboards.
|
| But if there's something specific you have in mind I can
| try to answer here.
| delecti wrote:
| I mean, define "problem", because it sounds like you've got
| an order of magnitude more keyboards than hands.
| phero_cnstrcts wrote:
| I mean, I feel fine! one day I will find the perfect
| keyboard.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| I've stood staring down that rabbit hole many times, but then I
| look at my wallet and turn back.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Every few months I go to https://keymacs.com/ and ponder
| whether my life would be better without all that cash, but
| with that beauty in my life.
| dotancohen wrote:
| ...two of which have near-identical layouts, and one of which
| I'm typing on now!
|
| I have literally dozens of keyboards: mechanical, split,
| ergonomic, mobile, the list should end but it doesn't... And
| yet I'm typing on this split, tented, rubber dome Microsoft
| Sculpt Ergonomic. It has tactile keys, and such an
| extraordinarily low profile that I can type with it on my lap
| with my wrists pointed down. It has function keys and I don't
| need a second layer or FN key to access
| home/end/pageup/pagedown. The spacebar is split so it doesn't
| bind like many single-body split keyboards. And it's wireless!
|
| This mass-produced, reasonably inexpensive keyboard is not
| perfect in any way, but it's 90% to perfect in almost every
| single way.
| Scarbutt wrote:
| Love the Sculpt except for the horrible FN keys and the FN
| switch.
| dotancohen wrote:
| I actually wired a pushbutton to my first Sculpt to get to
| the media keys. But now I just map the volume controls to a
| convenient shortcut in KDE.
| shermozle wrote:
| I've used the MS Natural keyboards for years. I'd love to move to
| a mechanical model but the sites selling keyboards are really
| confusing.
|
| What do I have to buy to get a functioning keyboard? A shell?
| Switches? Other stuff? I really don't know what I'm looking at.
|
| Anyone got a good entry point?
| gorbachev wrote:
| Get an off-the-shelf Arisu layout keyboard from a reputable
| manufacturer. You don't have to worry about the billion
| options. The Arisu layout keyboards are the closest mechanical
| keyboards you can get to a MS Natural keyboard layout, IMHO.
|
| Keychron has several models of different sizes that give you
| good options on size vs. function vs. price: V8/V10, Q8/Q10,
| K15 Pro, etc. They sell on Amazon, their own site and some mech
| kbd vendors as well. Their own site is the only one that
| carries the entire product line, however.
|
| Akkogear has a model (ACR Pro Alice Plus) that's quite
| affordable and good build quality.
|
| Feker Alice boards from Epomaker are another good choice.
| tom_ wrote:
| Unlike the MS Natural 4000, all of these seem to lack one or
| more of: symmetrical meta keys, F keys, standard navigation
| cluster, right hand Ctrl and/or Alt, cursor keys away from
| the main typing area (probably necessary for symmetrical meta
| keys anyway), PrtSc key.
|
| (A pause key would be nice too. I think I can survive without
| ScrLk.)
|
| I like having a numeric keypad, but that can always be bought
| separately.
|
| Volume controls and mute would be a nice. I like them
| separate, but Fn+something is acceptable.
|
| Even if I'd never buy any of them, I do like the fact that
| there are all these different layouts. But it's a constant
| mystery to me why none of them are remotely like the very
| standard MS split layout that's been around for over 25
| years.
| rgoulter wrote:
| I find it bizarre to say "Arisu layout" and "ergonomic" in
| the same sentence.
|
| The layout looks cool.
|
| The only two ergonomic things about it are that the letters
| are slightly split apart, and slightly at an angle. (The
| thumb gets to press more keys than on a standard keyboard,
| but not as many as on better keyboards).
|
| The layouts tend to have weird features, stuff like: the
| digit for 6 is placed on the left-hand side; or that it's got
| pinky-finger modifiers, but not 3 on each side. Many layouts
| also drop the function row (indicating users are expected to
| use layers), but retain a nav cluster. - The layout of the
| alphabetical keys is also weirdly asymmetric.
| tom_ wrote:
| 6 on the left is the same as the the split MS keyboards -
| for good or for ill. (But at least it's the same!)
| [deleted]
| sime2009 wrote:
| Start reading here:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/index/
|
| It is not too hard these days to buy a complete and immediately
| usable keyboard on line. But it does help to know what you are
| looking for because there are choices to be made around format,
| switches, keycaps, etc.
| eYrKEC2 wrote:
| MS Natural Keyboards have the opposite shape of natural in the
| Z-axis. Your pinky and index fingers have to travel _more_
| because the curve is a mirror of the curve of your hands.
|
| Kinesis Advantage2 are the negative shape of your hands and the
| split lines up with your shoulder width. Love my Kinesis
| Advantage2.
| stevev wrote:
| Your enthusiasm for collecting and buying keyboards isn't
| considered unhealthy; it's akin to periodically upgrading a car.
| At best, it's comparable to exclusively sticking with sedans or
| small compact cars.
|
| Mechanical keyboards or building custom ones, especially those
| with Cherry MX keys, are where the excitement lies.
|
| You might not have had the chance to explore them all yet;
| there's an abundance of various types available.
| h2odragon wrote:
| I got to start with Victor keyboards, which was a little bit of a
| "silver spoon". The only thing that was ever better than a model
| M.
|
| Sometime around '97 I got a _bunch_ of real Model M 's from a
| school; spent a while refurbishing up a bunch of them, and then
| used that stack for like 20 years. They lived an average of 3yr
| under my hands.
|
| Since then i use unicomp "new model M". This one has been going
| stong for 2+yr now, expect it to start losing function soon.
| Tried a couple different logitech "mechanical" and beat them to
| death in under a year.
|
| My stuff would last longer if i used one of those "keyboard
| condom" things but those are worse than using a $10 disposable
| "flexible" bodyless thing, anyway. the cure is worse than the
| disease.
| serf wrote:
| >Since then i use unicomp "new model M". This one has been
| going stong for 2+yr now, expect it to start losing function
| soon. Tried a couple different logitech "mechanical" and beat
| them to death in under a year.
|
| I had one of those for a bit but it had constant firmware
| issues. usb dropouts and resets that required a full power-off.
| had to return it.
|
| was an OK repro as far as the typing feel goes, though.
| shrubble wrote:
| Did you learn typing on a manual typewriter as I did? So far my
| Redragon K552 has held up pretty well for 3+ years.
| askiiart wrote:
| I used a K552 for a while. Definitely a decent keyboard for
| the price. Just be warned that, like going from membrane to
| mechanical, once you upgrade there's no going back. I
| upgraded to a TKL GMMK with Kailh BOX White switches, and now
| the K552 feels terrible because my standards have been raised
| so much higher.
| eimrine wrote:
| > They lived an average of 3yr under my hands.
|
| How can you destroy a Model M?
| wiredfool wrote:
| Beating someone to death?
|
| My m13 has lasted 20 years - though it needs a new cable
| because of flakey plastic.
| Filligree wrote:
| Some people use an astounding amount of force. I wince
| every time I need to hand my father my laptop.
| h2odragon wrote:
| I have woken my wife up with a burst of typing. She said
| it sounded like someone shaking a spray paint can.
| h2odragon wrote:
| psoriasis on my hands, associated clawlike fingernails. i
| bleed and shed a lot of skin.
| quesne wrote:
| Ashtray got full.
| racl101 wrote:
| Gotta pump those numbers up kid.
|
| Those are rookie numbers.
| Const-me wrote:
| The best keyboard I ever had was Velocifire VM02WS. It has
| mechanical brown switches, and it worked flawlessly for more than
| 5 years. Then the left control key broke down.
|
| The rest of the keyboards I have used, no matter mechanical or
| not, failed after 1-2 years of use. Typically, it was the left
| control key.
|
| Currently I'm using some gamer-targeted keyboard with ridiculous
| blue LEDs which had "more than 15 million cycles" label on the
| box. So far so good, but I liked the mechanical ones better.
| moondev wrote:
| I got excited thinking a keyboard named "choc mini" actually used
| "choc mini" switches. AKA "low" low profile switches.
|
| https://mkultra.click/choc-mini-low-low-profile-switches/
|
| Alas the search continues
| indymike wrote:
| My all time favorite was a Northgate Omnikey. It had incredible
| switches and function keys on the side and across the top. It
| lasted about 20 years and was killed by Mt. Dew.
|
| Second favorite is the Logitech K780. It feels a lot like the MX
| Keys but with round key caps.
| jasoneckert wrote:
| I've also had - and collect - an insane amount of keyboards, much
| like my musician friends collect instruments. I have 46 keyboards
| currently - mostly TKL mechanical (Cherry/Topre/Kailh/Gateron), a
| Moonlander, and some Apple, Microsoft and Logitech.
|
| But the only keyboard I actually use for my work is a Lenovo
| TrackPoint II Bluetooth keyboard (best keyboard ever made IMO).
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| I think 46 takes the cake in this whole comment section
| daniiln wrote:
| I used the first version of Lenovo TrackPoint keyboard for
| years, before I switched to Tex Yoda 2, which is pretty much a
| Mechanical Thinkpad keyboard, and never looked back. This brand
| (Tex) pretty much the only brand that makes high quality
| keyboards with trackpoints.
| azemetre wrote:
| Nice to see the Noppoo Choc Mini! I had the same keyboard, got me
| through 5 years of starcraft 2 and another 5 years of brood war
| remastered. Had to retire it when I stopped playing starcraft and
| now use a kinesis advantage360 pro when working/programming.
|
| If you haven't used a split keyboard, I highly recommend it! It
| feels way more natural typing and less stressful on your wrists.
| I still use a kinesis freestyle 2 on my desktop pc, good enough
| for most games too. It feels alien at first but you quickly
| adapt. It's also not hard to go back and forth between the
| different types of keyboards.
| bogdan wrote:
| A white noppoo choc mini was my introduction to mechanical
| keyboards, I still have it and it works without any issues but
| it now sits in my cabinet next to my desk. Got it because
| Reckful (RIP) had one and was doing a lot of typeracer back
| then and I liked the click/clack sounds it made. Nowadays I'm
| using a Ducky DK2108 with a set of double-shot PBT keycaps, the
| keyboard is indestructible and looks brand new, can't justify
| replacing it.
| bbkane wrote:
| Took me a solid month do adapt, but really glad I put the time
| in!!
| swah wrote:
| I've been trying to buy a Kinesis for a few years now, but they
| always go for 200 USD used in Ebay.
| eYrKEC2 wrote:
| They're very expensive for a keyboard.
|
| However, for a device that I use 50 hours a week -- not so
| expensive.
|
| If you're a software engineer, you probably use your car a
| _lot_ less than your keyboard. You _probably_ spent north of
| $20k for your car and you use it for ~7 hours per week, max?
|
| $350 is nothing for a primary tool of your trade.
| namrog84 wrote:
| Hey keyboard and computer enthusiast! I need your help!
|
| Any other keyboard I've ever tried hurts my wrists, arm, and
| back, and causes me pain except the "Microsoft Natural Ergonomic
| Keyboard 4000". However they were discontinued years ago. :( I've
| been buying up used ones and learning how to disassemble and
| repair the ones I have the best I can, but my skills are limited.
|
| If anyone has any (unopened) ones or knows of good replacements
| or how to make a new replacement (with same layout). I'd be
| incredibly grateful.
|
| Most alternatives don't really have the wrist/angle support which
| is the #1. Then the arrow keys/home/pgup pgdn keys is next most
| important, and lastly the numpad and F1-F12 row keys. I don't
| care about special top row buttons or any of the 'special' keys
| on it.
|
| Also, before people mention it, the Arisu or Feker Alice layout
| keyboards is nothing at all like the same wrist/angle support,
| it's basically just a split keyboard. :/ Most suggestions have
| missed the whole point of wrist/angle support being the issue.
|
| I don't mind it being mechanical or anything so long as it's the
| basically the same layout/angle as the Microsoft ergo 4000. The
| replacement 'Microsoft ergonomic keyboard' non 4000 is 'okayish'
| but not as good as 4000. Other than those 2, I've never found one
| even remotely close to my needs. Thanks! <3
| tqwhite wrote:
| I use the Apple keyboard. It is very, very low profile. I have
| had wrist trouble but not in this context.
| w10-1 wrote:
| Try the Kinesis Advantage II or 360 (with low-force keys):
| https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-lfq/
|
| The curved key well means the wrist can avoid moving and hence
| avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. Moving the high-traffic enter and
| modifier keys to the thumb helps a lot, too.
|
| It has an embedded number pad, so you just toggle "keypad" and
| use the same keys.
| probablycarrots wrote:
| The 4000 is by far my favorite keyboard and I also have a small
| stockpile. Over the years I've tried dozens of alternatives and
| never found anything with the appropriate wrist/hand angle.
| Everything about it is perfect for me.
|
| If I were wealthy I'd try having one commissioned. I'm sort of
| terrified that one day I'll be forced to use something else.
|
| I tried many of the adjustable modern split keyboards that come
| in two halves (and are missing 10-key) but absolutely despise
| having half of my keyboard move around. The trend of keyboards
| cut in half doesn't make any sense to me. I never look at the
| thing and I expect every key to be exactly where I left it.
| namrog84 wrote:
| I've considered looking into getting like a custom order of
| 100 (or maybe 1000) units keyboards made similar-ish to the
| 4000. And trying to sell them.
|
| I think there is enough of us. I just have my fingers crossed
| that microsoft eventually makes a 'surface' brand version
| similiar enough to the 4000. or I find a way to properly
| replicate/replace the 4000s in some custom way.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| > Most alternatives don't really have the wrist/angle support
| which is the #1.
|
| Hear hear!
|
| Adesso makes an ergonomic keyboard similar to the discontinued
| MSFT series.
|
| I also have found that the Goldtouch V2 keyboard can be
| adjusted for a variety of human geometries using the split and
| the ball joint.
| https://shop.goldtouch.com/products/goldtouch-v2-adjustable-...
| namrog84 wrote:
| That adesso is easily the closest thing I've seen! Thanks for
| that! I hadn't come across that one before!
|
| Do you know if the 'front' can raise up like the 4000 can?
| Like this https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71FzIG1rqBL.jpg
| chrisco255 wrote:
| This is what I personally use: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/.
| The angle and pitch are totally customizable. Fantastic highly
| modifiable keyboard.
| flamwenco wrote:
| As someone who used to daily a Microsoft Sculpt and has tried
| the Moonlander... I would say it is much much more specific
| in who it is good for out of the box. If you want tenting but
| also don't have giant hands, it's not a good fit imo.
|
| I don't think my hands are tiny, but because the thumb
| cluster is used as the tenting leg, in order to achieve a
| comfortable tenting angle, I had to give up using most of the
| thumb cluster because I simply couldn't reach it without
| moving my hand, which defeats the point. There are solutions
| to work around this (namely the tripod pucks or printing
| additional tenting legs), but it feels like a fundamental
| design flaw with the moonlander that should not be there
| given the premium price.
|
| Also as an aside, I hate that they went with rattly as hell
| costar stabs for the red thumb keys, they're awful on a
| keyboard in this price bracket.
|
| I'd really recommend something like the lily58 (there is a
| variant called the lulu that has tenting legs available) or
| if you're feeling daring with going smaller, the corne over
| the moonlander.
| poszlem wrote:
| On the other hand, I've tried many keyboards, including the
| ErgoDox and Kinesis Advantage, with the latter being the most
| comfortable for me. While the Moonlander boasts impressive
| customizability, I found its untypical angle of the thumb
| cluster to be a drawback for my personal typing experience.
|
| Given its premium price point and the extended delivery time
| from Taiwan (mine took almost a month to come to the UK), I'd
| strongly recommend trying it out before making a purchase to
| ensure it meets your ergonomic needs and avoids potential
| disappointment.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| It arrived in less than one week for me, and I purchased
| relatively recently.
| namrog84 wrote:
| That's definitely an interesting one I hadn't seen before.
|
| I game a lot, so some of the features like the offset
| ASD(though this might be better?) and lack of bigger
| caps/tabs/shift/ctrl are definitely concerns for me here.
| I'll definitely keep it on my shirt list of keyboards to
| maybe try out one day.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| I game a lot too. You can remap everything on that keyboard
| from a simple UI tool, and even toggle between "layers" for
| things like custom profiles for each game you might play
| (and any macros you want to assign to specific keys). It
| did take me a couple of days to get used to the layout
| before I started to surpass my previous wpm, but it was
| worth the investment.
| nprateem wrote:
| I used this for 15 years and now within 5 minutes it gives me
| crippling RSI. Now, going from an ergo keyboard with 35g keys
| to this it's obvious just how much effort it takes to press the
| keys. Either way gutted I can't use this any more .
| bobsmith432 wrote:
| I use some USB Lenovo keyboard that's the most like a Model M in
| terms of layout but plan to get a New Model M from Unicomp for
| the superior switches
|
| https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/NEW_M
| mattlondon wrote:
| I personally prefer the low-profile chiclet keys over mechanical
| so it was refreshing to see someone "turn their back" on
| mechanical keyboards too. Something about the low-profile keys
| just cannot be beaten. I've tried many mechanical keyboards and
| switches over the years and frankly nothing comes close in terms
| of typing ergonomics of a low-profile chiclet keyboard.
| </unpopular-opinion>
|
| I've found that Cherry make a semi-decent low-profile Mac-style
| chiclet wired keyboard that costs approx PS30. It is Cherry of
| keyboard-switch-fame, but it is scissor switches and not
| mechanical. Build wise it is pretty solid and good replacement to
| my old mac chiclet keyboard:
| https://www.cherry.co.uk/kc-6000-slim I've been using it for
| several years now and I've very pleased with it.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I've been using a Das Keyboard with blank keycaps for almost a
| year.
|
| > I frequently had to manually type in passwords when SSH'ing
| onto remote boxes ... This happened frequently enough that I
| realised that blank keycaps weren't for me, at least not for the
| office/work environment.
|
| In my case, I use a laptop as my primary computer. When I need to
| type like that, I just stand up and use my laptop's keyboard.
|
| Honestly, though, I really wish the Das Keyboard had a braille
| option. :)
| Aeolun wrote:
| One of the 5 keyboards on your list you used all the way through
| university, and there's only 2 keyboards after. This feels far
| from an unhealthy obsession to me.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| Compared to a lot of programmers here, I totally agree (but my
| parents and girlfriend might disagree).
|
| But gotta generate that clickbait headline ;)
| bhdlr wrote:
| Dude hasn't even built his own keyboard, definitely not an
| obsession
| dhruvmittal wrote:
| More along the lines of what I was expecting to see here.
| hinkley wrote:
| I think obsession requires you lamenting what's wrong with a
| keyboard you already built and how you're going to fix it all
| 'next time'.
|
| Although if you can hold forth on how to find old keyboards
| on eBay, that may also qualify.
| kstrauser wrote:
| And those look like default keycaps. If someone hasn't
| developed strong opinions on materials and double-shot
| markings, they're still at the "only on weekends when I've
| been drinking" stage.
| alias_neo wrote:
| I have to admit, I was expecting something different when I saw
| the title.
|
| Just one of my hand-build, custom switch, aluminium-case,
| custom-firmware,"artisan" keycap, mechanical keyboards would
| buy all of those on OPs list, probably twice over.
|
| It's good that OP is keeping a lid on their keyboard buying
| habits (as with anything), but realistically, OP isn't even in
| the same _universe_ as the people with the _real_ unhealthy
| keyboard habits.
|
| There are/were people on the mechanical keyboard sub-reddit
| whose keyboard collections reach into the tens of thousands of
| dollars.
| nkantar wrote:
| My experimentation largely ended when I got an ErgoDox EZ a few
| years ago. Ergonomic + ortholinear has been life changing, and
| it's hard to go back, even for relatively short bursts on the
| built-in laptop keyboard itself.
|
| I recently got an OLKB Planck to see if I like it enough to
| travel with it, as the ErgoDox is a bit hefty for that use case.
| Gualdrapo wrote:
| I have a Logitech MX Keys too. Though when I got it I also had
| some concerns about how charging it would be a odd experience,
| after 1.5 years or so of usage I just have to charge it in like
| each 3 months - and still you get to use it while it's charging.
| I don't use the backlight feature so I guess for other people
| that time between charging can be shorter.
|
| I haven't had the need to disassemble it for cleaning so I use a
| small brush to remove crumbs and stuff. Sometimes I too feel that
| it is large, but still the numpad is convenient. The alternative
| would be a 'compact' design but I don't like how they cram the
| Enter key in a single row and make the up and down keys half of
| the height of a normal key.
|
| My complain against it is its privative nature - with Linux, you
| can't use the screen brightness keys unless you install something
| like Logiops or Solaar. Alas I've found Logips a bit buggy so
| when you're running it the mouse wheel becomes really glitchy so
| you have to restart it.
|
| I'd like it to have one of these wheels some keyboards have to
| control volume or something else, a second Meta key and that one
| could make it so when powering it up it started with no
| backlight.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| I think I've had it for a similar amount of time and I've
| definitely had to start charging it up a lot more frequently
| recently (compared to when I first started using it).
| criddell wrote:
| A long time ago at work, I was given a Logitech K750. It is
| powered by solar cells which charge an internal battery. It
| works so well, I don't understand why there aren't more solar
| powered keyboards.
|
| I ended up buying the same keyboard for home and I really enjoy
| typing on it. My only complaint is that it's difficult to
| remove the keycaps for cleaning and some dust somehow got
| inside and I can see it on the little solar panels.
|
| Typing preferences are very subjective, but I've grown to
| really enjoy working on this keyboard. I've used it so much
| that the texture has pretty much worn off of most of the keys
| and I'm starting to lose the printed letters on the key caps.
| I've thought about buying a few replacements and storing them
| because no product is sold forever...
| aimor wrote:
| I really liked my K750 too, but when I switched to LED lights
| it stopped charging. I got by for awhile setting it in front
| of a window a few times a week. Once at night, without a
| charge and in desperation, I stupidly I set it on top of a
| lamp with an incandescent bulb, promptly forgot about it, and
| melted one of the keys.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| I owned one of these, and decided to omit it from the list
| (it came before my first Cherry board).
|
| It was a really good board. But I remember it having quite a
| lot of flex in the plastic. My letters wore off pretty
| quickly and frustratingly the solar cells eventually died and
| the thing stopped charging all together.
| criddell wrote:
| At some point, I think they changed the number of rubber
| feet from 4 to 6 to help with the flexing. It's still too
| flexy though.
|
| > the solar cells eventually died
|
| Mine stopped charging too but in my case it was because the
| little rechargeable battery had wore out. There's a battery
| tray on the back that you slide out and replace it and it's
| been working ever since for me. If the solar panels
| themselves eventually die, then maybe that's why there
| aren't more of these on the market.
| GrumpyNl wrote:
| My favorite is the logitech k500. I like it so much, i have a few
| new spare ones in my closet.
| pcblues wrote:
| I loved my MX Keys until I realised it was built with the same
| idea as the iPhone. I was meant to treat it as
| disposable/replaceable at the first sign of trouble. No user-
| serviceable parts. As soon as one key got sticky, that was the
| end of the experience with no way out without paying more money.
|
| Next favourite is their K295. For some reason, it clicks with me
| (a joke because it is silent). All keys available and in the
| right position and a nice accurate mouse. Most importantly, the
| function keys are separate from the media keys, meaning less key
| presses.
|
| My third favourite wireless keyboard/mouse combo cost $7 at a
| supermarket. Sometimes you just hit the jackpot with cheap
| manufacturing. I have to remember to go back and buy ten more
| when this luck occurs.
|
| For reference, I've bought and used at least 20+ keyboards and/or
| mouses.
| nullptr_deref wrote:
| I was genuinely hoping to see something weird like how you
| designed your custom PCBs and made a simple ergonomic keyboard
| for yourself. How you transitioned the mortal plane into a weird
| keyboard realm.
|
| For context: https:/www.youtube.com/@BenVallack/
|
| The channel is about pure keyboard obsession. Please share it
| with your family to show them that you are no where obsessed with
| the keyboards!
| FridgeSeal wrote:
| The author should try a keychron- variety of switch/key profiles
| available-including low profile, supports Bluetooth and cable,
| and Mac and windows key layout, via subtle little side switches,
| cones with platform-specific spare keys for CMD/option etc. Comes
| in a variety of sizes and the newest ones are fully programmable,
| should you want to go down that particular rabbit hole. The build
| quality is also solid.
| theandrewbailey wrote:
| I've been using a Das Keyboard 4 Ultimate (the blank one) for
| almost 10 years. I liked it so much that I soon got another for
| work. While I have looked at other keyboards, I've never wanted
| to replace either one.
| phamilton4 wrote:
| This is amateur hour! Let me know when you own all the flavors of
| the MX Keys, Mechanical, Mini, "Regular". All of the microsoft
| designer keys, a few Vortex keyboards (Core 40%, Cyph3r), some
| Dvorak keyboards, apple ones, custom made ones..... lol
|
| It really is an addiction, it's a shame I too keep coming back to
| the MX Keys Line (Currently in love with the Mechanical w/ Cherry
| switches).
| Paianni wrote:
| I lost money on two Cherry switch boards until I got an HHKB
| Pro2. I feel no need to change.
| ContrabandNews wrote:
| How is using the arrows? I had a poker 2 that had arrows on the
| wasd but that seems a bit easier as the arrows were away from
| the hand that was hitting the function key.
| correlator wrote:
| You get used to the layer keys for arrows within a day or
| two.
| anotheraccount9 wrote:
| Currently using a Ducky One 2 Mini with katakana caps. I'm
| waiting for another job offer to look for another model, as I
| expect the next one will be expensive.
| Justsignedup wrote:
| I recently bought https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBWJ9SKX ($35 USD)
| which I was skeptical about since cheap mechanical keyboards tend
| to be shitty (I tried quite a few). But this one has been
| absolutely amazing, so much so, that I prefer it to many $100
| keyboards, and has been absolutely amazing for work (the nice
| brown feel, with a very muted sound). I wish for $10-15 more they
| had a full version, but this one is great as well.
|
| In any case, thought I'd share.
|
| Also when he said "after uni... covid lockdown" really made me
| feel old :P
|
| For those reading, cherry brown or equivalent switches are your
| friend. I used to use blues with the clicky sound (browns are
| like blues without the sound) and I can tell you the blues got my
| keyboard kicked out of work AND my fiance threatened to beat me
| with it. Those blue sounds are bad bad bad for others, all jokes
| aside.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| Author here, funnily enough that's one of the keyboards I had
| my eyes on! (I have that very linked pinned my browser right
| now). Was holding off until some more depth reviews came out,
| so far I'd only seen unboxing / first impression videos /
| reviews. So it's good to see you'd have a good experience with
| this board.
|
| Might have to wait a few months until I'm back in my home
| country, I'm in Brazil rn and the import tax is more than the
| price of the keyboard.
|
| Was worried that it wouldn't hold up to something more premium
| and I'd have to fork out some additional cash to get that
| experience. But from what you've mentioned it sounds like it's
| pretty good for the price.
|
| Sorry for making you feel old!
| Justsignedup wrote:
| Dude, I cannot recommend this enough. Typing this response on
| it. Love it. Just get it. Its $35, if you don't like it you
| only wasted $35, not like one of those 100-300 keyboards.
|
| Also nah, I'll feel old no matter what :P
| nprateem wrote:
| I'm looking for a programmable (ZMK/QMK) split ergo ortholinear
| keyboard that uses low travel macbook-style keys and can be
| custom tented. Any suggestions?
| rcarr wrote:
| Closest thing is probably the ZSA Voyager, but choc keys + case
| is still a fair bit higher than a Magic Keyboard
| nprateem wrote:
| If Apple made a split ergo programmable keyboard I'd probably
| buy one. It's kind of weird to me all the ergo mech crowd
| have latched onto the mech part, when I'm sure there are
| others like me who want split ergo and low profile :/
| rcarr wrote:
| I feel exactly the same way but it's highly unlikely. I do
| think that we will see some kind of gesture recognition
| tech built into the Apple watch which will allow us to type
| without any keyboard at all. There's already a product on
| the market that does this called the TapXR and I think with
| the push towards VR and AR and the need for a solution for
| typing in these programs when you're not at a desk, this is
| coming sooner or later. We've already seen the early stages
| of this with the new gesture for answering phone calls on
| the latest Apple watches.
|
| https://www.tapwithus.com/product/tap-xr/
| bbbobbb wrote:
| While I prefer wired keyboard as well (due to not having to deal
| with pairing / connection issues), this argument I don't
| understand:
|
| > Firstly the board is completely wireless, which means I have to
| charge it via USB-C. As I'm sat practically tethered to my desk
| all day a permanently wired option would actually be more
| convenient as it would save me to the hassle of charging.
|
| Then plug the USB-C cable in permanently? How is it different
| from it having a wired keyboard?
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| Plugging in the USB-C cable is for charging only, so it would
| still be a wireless connection. I'd still need to connect via
| bluetooth or the Logitech dongle. I won't get any of the
| benefits i.e. latency / lower power consumption of using a
| wired connection.
|
| I also have concerns about the charger degrading the battery if
| it's completely plugged in.
| bbbobbb wrote:
| Right, I only meant in regard of inconvenience of having to
| charge it.
| CorrectHorseBat wrote:
| Maybe it doesn't work when charging? That's the case with some
| devices
| INTPenis wrote:
| All my best keyboards have been given to me. All my worst
| keyboards have been purchased by me.
|
| My first job was very much a garage shop web hosting business so
| I just rummaged through the boxes and found an old IBM model M
| (not realizing its later cult status).
|
| At another later job I just grabbed a full length apple keyboard
| with numpad that was laying around. During boring times at that
| job I placed in top 20 at typeracer with that keyboard.
|
| Whenever I tried to be like other nerd friends and buy a cool
| nerdy clicketyclack keyboard I always ended up disappointed.
|
| Now the last 15 years or so I mostly used Thinkpad keyboards and
| they're just fine.
| darkteflon wrote:
| Having used many mechanical keyboards over the years - including
| a Model M inherited from my dad - my dirty little secret is that
| I keep coming back to the Apple Magic Keyboard.
|
| I'd never admit it in public, though.
| geniium wrote:
| Oh I love this article. And I can totally relate. I have so many
| keyboards that I feel ashamed to have spent so much money on all
| of theses devices.
|
| But the journey is amazing. Switching from flat to mechanical.
| From ergo to standard.
|
| Down the road, after so many years, I like the option to be able
| to switch easily. I lile my Moonlander split (but hate that it
| moves) so I fallback on a flat Microsoft Sculpt. And sometimes
| use the MX Key MINI. Yeah, the mini is the way to go. The big one
| with the numpad is too big for me too.
|
| My dream is a split, flat, keyboard with good build quality.
| Maybe something like the
| https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/naya-create/naya-create ?
| But that price and not built yet is stopping me from pulling the
| trigger...
|
| What's your favorite dope keyboard out there?
| geniium wrote:
| PS: I have no relation with the Naya team building this new
| baby
| ecshafer wrote:
| MX Keys is a great keyboard, if only for the quick switch between
| up to 3 saved devices. Work laptop, Desktop, Personal Laptop with
| the same keyboard and switching with a single key press is just a
| great feature.
| divbzero wrote:
| > _quick switch between up to 3 saved devices_
|
| Is there a touchpad or a mouse with a similar feature?
| ecshafer wrote:
| The corresponding mouse, MX Master Mouse (I think is the
| name) from Logitech has the same feature. Its a button which
| cycles through the three saved devices, so 2->1 is 2 key
| presses so not exactly 1. But its really a great feature.
| Literally a killer feature for me that I don't know why
| everything doesn't have it.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| FYI, there's a somewhat related topic at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37630804 concerning the
| difficulties of editing text on a mobile under the heading _Text
| editing on mobile: the invisible problem._
|
| As is my usual wont, I had a long rave about such matters but one
| of the points I raised that may interest those here was the lack
| of Bluetooth keyboards, especially the more portable types with
| good mechanical switches.
|
| After posting, I thought I'd better do a updated search to see if
| the market had improved and I've just discovered a complete range
| of keyboards of which I was unaware, namely NuPhy
| https://nuphy.com/ (perhaps I'm a member of the mushroom club and
| the last to know). Anyway, it seems the market has improved
| significantly in the last year or so since I last looked.
|
| There's good range of KBs with combo Bluetooth 5.0 + wireless +
| USB-C cable + hot-swappable keys/key types. Some reviews seem
| favorable but I'd be interested to hear experiences from others
| who've actually used them.
| someplaceguy wrote:
| Keychron also has many keyboards with Bluetooth + USB-C cable
| -- the ones with "Pro" in the name, I think. I am personally a
| fan of the "Q" or "Q Pro" series (because of the knob), but
| there are other lines.
|
| I think all of them have hot-swappable keys and many of them
| even have hot-swappable mechanical switches, I think. In most
| of their keyboards, all the keys (and key combinations) are
| fully configurable at the hardware level as well.
|
| I can vouch for the quality of the ones I have (Q3), but mine
| don't have Bluetooth so I don't know how well that works.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Ah, thanks for that. Just had a quick look at the site, seems
| I've much reading to do.
| someplaceguy wrote:
| Oh, based on your previous comment, I should also say that
| the one I have is really heavy, which is not great for
| carrying around everywhere. Apart from that I really like
| it.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Right, noted. But I've multiple uses. I'm sick of the
| junk KBs I have now so I need to replace them, so it's
| all useful info. And for my PCs I want heavy KBs (I used
| to own one of the heavy IBM XT/AT ones and loved it).
|
| The Bluetooth/Android aspect is only a subset matter that
| arose here as a result of the other HN story re horrible
| text entry on phones. Thanks again.
| HighNunChicken wrote:
| I bought into NuPhy with their original release, the NUTYPE F1,
| and had a terrible experience with them--both the product and
| customer service was defective.
|
| The keyboard I received had many quality issues, and others
| online reported the same. When contacting support, they
| required many back and forth emails, asking for more photos and
| videos each time. After weeks of this, I got this from support,
| "Sorry for the inconvenience. Follow the return process,
| customers need to return the products to us firstly and pay for
| the return freight. We'll give you refund when we got your
| return goods after checked,there's really with quality
| problem."
|
| This is after sending both photos/videos of the obvious defects
| and quality issues... and return shipping would be back to Hong
| Kong.
|
| In the end, I just took this as a learning experience to never
| back a "kickstarter" product again.
|
| Some additional insight:
|
| -preordered keyboard: 8/2020
|
| -received keyboard: 11/2020
|
| -20% discount offer on new purchases: 11/2020
|
| -keycap update and new product promoted: 12/2020
|
| In summary, I waited 3 months to get charged an extra 20% for
| an inferior product that got discontinued a month later. I
| cannot recommend NuPhy.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Thanks. Very useful knowledge. Seems a risky proposition at
| this stage (and I'd prefer to buy from a local retailer who
| had them in stock so there'd be no mucking about if I had to
| return it).
|
| _All that glitters is not gold! :-(_
| rgoulter wrote:
| Many recommendations that "split" is a good property to have on a
| keyboard.
|
| I'd add that it's a good idea to get a keyboard where your thumbs
| get to use two or three keys each. Most keyboards have a big
| spacebar, and so the thumbs can't do much from home row. (And
| then useful keys like backspace, enter, escape require
| reaching/stretching/using pinky fingers).
| tomduncalf wrote:
| Big fan of the MS Sculpt myself. I like the "MacBook-esque" low
| profile keys.
|
| The only downsides are:
|
| - I've had keycaps fall off after a couple of years and they're
| almost impossible to get back on (for me at least). The second
| time this happened I realised it had a 3 year warranty though, so
| got a replacement.
|
| - It requires a dongle rather than Bluetooth, and if you lose the
| dongle, you're screwed, as they're paired in the factory and
| can't be reconfigured.
|
| Are there any other similar keyboards worth considering? Must be
| wireless, low profile keys and split layout. The Logitech K860
| looks alright but I don't need or want the numpad really (I like
| having my Magic Trackpad closer).
| fallat wrote:
| I honestly hope to god MS continues to produce these keyboards.
| It's the only keyboard I've rebought because I love it so much.
| The ergonomic tilt both inward and upward, with the scissor
| switch keys, all for $100, is f'ing incredible.
|
| This is the defacto keyboard I recommend to everyone who types
| a ton a day.
| tomduncalf wrote:
| Agree, I almost want to stockpile them in case they ever do
| stop making them haha
| frameset wrote:
| I really don't understand the numpad-less trend of fashionable
| keyboards. Doing any kind of number entry beyond one or two
| digits is very annoying without one.
|
| They also don't take up that much space really.
|
| If your keyboard is a portable one you pack with you on trips, I
| get it. If it lives on a desk, why not splash out the small
| amount extra to make number entry much easier.
| jrockway wrote:
| The reason people ditch number pads is so that their mouse can
| be closer to them. Feel what your upper arm is doing as you
| rotate to get to a mouse that's next to a number pad, that is
| painful for a lot of people. (If you use your mouse with your
| left hand, then this doesn't matter.)
|
| Personally, I just have a layer that I activate with my right
| thumb to turn the m,.jkluio keys into 123456789, so it's like
| having a number pad, but one that doesn't take up any space.
| pr0zac wrote:
| Do you not know how to touch type without looking at the
| keyboard at all or have you just not learned where the numbers
| are? Shouldn't you take the time to learn to type correctly
| instead of relying on moving your entire hand just to type a
| number?
|
| I truly do not mean to be insulting or anything, but I read
| comments like this a lot and they really confuse me. I don't
| need a numpad because I know how to touch type and don't have
| trouble putting in numbers with the number row without looking,
| I never used the numpad even when I had a keyboard that had
| one.
|
| For why I got a board without it, ergonomics. My mouse is where
| the numpad would've been. Having a shorter keyboard reduces the
| distance between my hands at the points where I need to use a
| mouse to about shoulder width, keeping my arms aligned with my
| shoulders and greatly reduces shoulder impinging issues I was
| having.
| tempaccount1234 wrote:
| Situations where I have to type in numbers are usually those
| where I need one hand to touch paper or a device, so that's
| why typing them on a regular keyboard is hard.
|
| Also those keyboards without a number block seem to have bad
| positions for cursor and other special keys.
| trey-jones wrote:
| This seems like some weird flex about being able to type
| numbers as effectively on the number row as on a number pad
| (not sure I believe that). I would rather flex that I never
| have to move my hand to the mouse...
| philote wrote:
| I'm with you on this, but wasn't until a few years ago. I
| used to prefer number pad and, though I'm pretty good a
| typing, didn't really learn to use the number row
| effectively. Now I see no reason to use a number pad unless
| I'm just doing a ton of numerical entry because I prefer
| leaving my hands in one place. It's actually annoying me
| right now that I have to use my mouse to submit this comment
| :)
| Clamchop wrote:
| Effective tenkey entry _is_ a touch typing skill and it's
| much faster for number entry than the number row.
| kedean wrote:
| For me personally, the number row is far enough away from the
| home row that my fingers become inaccurate. It's not unlikely
| that when I reach for 7 I'll hit 6 instead. That's easy
| enough to correct in normal operation, less so for entering
| lots of numbers.
|
| Another issue is when doing data entry or 2fa codes, one hand
| tends to be busy holding something. The number row is
| basically unusable one-handed as far as I'm concerned.
|
| And for me, mouse distance from the keyboard has never been
| an issue, because I use them in different scenarios. It's not
| often that I'm dual wielding them to the point shoulder
| angles are a concern. If I'm spending hours coding, the
| amount of mouse usage is going to be minimal.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| Same here, I find that once I get about 4 keys away from
| where I index from, my accuracy drops like a rock
| MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
| One-handed number entry is nice. It makes entering codes and
| PIN numbers easier. And of course Excel.
| z500 wrote:
| Maybe it's because I learned to type in chat rooms and never
| bothered with the home row thing, but I guess I just don't
| type enough numbers to have muscle memory for the number row.
| But the numpad is stupid easy to develop muscle memory for.
| 010101010101 wrote:
| I have a full size Code keyboard at home and a tenkeyless one
| for work. I went with the TKL because it has a much smaller
| desk footprint and I end up with a bunch of other stuff taking
| up space on my desk at work. I can also fit the keyboard in my
| laptop bag if I need to (admittedly, this has mattered almost
| never). At home I end up doing enough number entry in personal
| finance spreadsheets and the like that I feel like I'd miss the
| numpad, but it's rarely been an issue for me at work.
| Legion wrote:
| I don't need a redundant set of numeric keys on the right side
| of the keyboard for the same reason I don't need a redundant
| set of vowels on the left side of the board.
|
| For an accountant or someone whose keyboard usage is
| exceedingly numbers-centric, then sure. But as a default
| option, it's a space eating waste.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I have wide shoulders and like to spread my arms out, so I
| personally prefer the number pad build into the keyboard. I
| even like reaching far out for my mouse.
|
| I can assume that people with narrow shoulders would prefer a
| narrow layout on their desk.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I only use a numpad while doing CAD work. I just bought a
| separate keypad. Otherwise it's just making the distance from
| 'home' to your mouse further than it needs to be.
| wccrawford wrote:
| I learned the 10-key before I learned touch-typing, so I tend
| to use it a _lot_. It 's just so convenient.
| thom wrote:
| The last time I used a numberpad was to play Civilisation in
| the 90s, so I don't really miss it. I hate moving my hands too
| far from the home row, and it's now a few inches less travel to
| my mouse when I need it so that's a positive. If I ever had to
| manually enter a bunch of numbers in a spreadsheet or something
| I'd either automate it or re-evaluate my life choices.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| >The last time I used a numberpad was to play Civilisation in
| the 90s
|
| Ay! another civ 2 fan! I agree it's painful to play that game
| without a numpad. I also used it with some tactical shooters
| to radio compass directions to my team. 'Enemy spotted south
| south east!' It came in handy.
| alias_neo wrote:
| It's an easy one for me; I'm a lefty, the majority of numpads
| are utterly useless to me because I am so much slower entering
| numbers on it with my right hand, than just using the number
| row, or a separate numpad, or a board with a left-numpad.
| rednerrus wrote:
| Swap to using your mouse with your left hand and see how much
| better it is. Moving the mouse closer to where you type helps
| tremendously.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| I cannot stand any keyboard less than a 100% layout. I have 30
| years of muscle memory built up, and I'm not about to relearn
| it.
|
| I don't really have any beef with those who want a smaller
| keyboard (though I don't really understand it - no way is your
| desk so small that saving a few inches actually makes a
| difference). But it is a real bummer that makers of high-end
| keyboards _only_ cater to that crowd, and don 't make nice
| keyboards that are full size. I would love to get a GMMK Pro,
| for example - if only it was in the form factor I want.
| NobodyNada wrote:
| I switched from a 100% layout to a 34-key keyboard last year.
| It's not about the desk space at all, it's about never having
| to move my hands while typing. E.g. instead of reaching for
| the arrow keys I use a vim navigation layer. Instead of
| reaching for the number keys -- or, even worse, a numpad way
| off to the side -- I use a numpad layer. And mod-taps are
| amazing.
|
| The small size is nice for portability -- my keyboard is
| split and wireless, so I can easily stick it in my backpack
| and set it in front of my laptop on a table anywhere. But
| again, the main benefit of a compact layout for me is
| ergonomics rather than size.
| tqwhite wrote:
| Incorrect! I have worked on a high quality, wooden card table
| for fifteen years as a professional programmer. I am right-
| handed and there is no way there is room for a mouse or (as I
| actually use) a trackpad with a number pad on the keyboard.
|
| I've tried a couple of numberless keyboards and those crowd
| my mouse area. I am firmly and permanently settled on the
| Apple keyboard. It is tiny, silent and perfectly reliable.
|
| (In a bizarre side note, I left one out in the rain the other
| day, a downpour. It still worked.)
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Fair enough, I phrased my statement too strongly. Let me
| restate: I have _never ever_ in my entire life seen a desk
| which was so small that shaving a few inches off a keyboard
| would actually be significant. And mind you, that includes
| shitty call center desks which are built to be just wide
| enough to cram a computer station in. While it is possible
| they exist, the fact that I 've never encountered even one
| causes me to doubt that most people who say "my desk is too
| small" actually have a desk which is too small for a 100%
| keyboard.
| NateEag wrote:
| For some of us, the sideways reach / horizontal flexion
| for the mouse (thumb trackball, in my case) can cause
| wrist or arm pain.
|
| It's not about desk space, it's about ergonomics.
| denkmoon wrote:
| Good thing I rarely enter more than a few digits :)
|
| Having a "tenkeyless" means my mouse position is aligned with
| my shoulder, with a full width keyboard my arm would be rotated
| constantly, leading to pain.
| 1-more wrote:
| My solution: on all of the keyboards I've programmed (which are
| all ortholinear or vertical staggered ortholinear), I have a
| numpad layer. When I hold down F my right hand home row is vim
| style arrows. D and it's a number pad. S and it's a symbol pad.
| Common programming delimiters like <>{}() are not on a layer,
| instead they're hold/tap with my modifier keys on my base layer
| (Inspired by the space cadet keyboard).
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| I've just habitually never learnt to do number entry with a
| numpad, I kinda envy those people that can.
|
| Also any time my hands leave the home row it feels kinda wrong.
| narag wrote:
| _I really don 't understand the numpad-less trend of
| fashionable keyboards._
|
| OK, I've read all the answers so far, in the hope that somebody
| had told you before, but no!
|
| I don't use the numpad, so it's useless to me. But does it
| harm? In the case of these keyboards, not so much, except for
| the reason others have already explained of more distance for
| the mouse. I can live with it, but my next keyboard will be
| numpad-less for sure.
|
| If we talk about laptops, that's a different story. Numpads for
| those are terrible, for me anyway.
|
| They shift the center of the hands, that is between G and H,
| from the center of the laptop and thus the center of the
| screen, so your hands are in an unnatural position.
|
| If you center an external wide keyboard, you get the same
| effect. I don't, but I try to use the GH line... "try" because
| the push from the mouse always tend to move it to the left.
|
| So now you know, for some of us it's not a question of fashion,
| but usability :)
| jethro_tell wrote:
| Some people don't do number entry of any scale that would make
| them want to take their hands off the home row. I'm one, I have
| small keyboards everywhere.
|
| My wife on the other hand has a custom keyboard with a num pad
| on each side so she can num pad with a mouse in her hand.
|
| People have different needs. And different workflows. Not sure
| why that's news to you.
| falsenapkin wrote:
| Quite the ratio here. Definitely agree with the masses that 1)
| almost no one does number entry 2) many touch typers are plenty
| fast enough on the number row 3) it does take up space really,
| especially in laptop or directly next to a mouse. I touch type
| 24 digit numbers at work from the num row, it's fine really.
| EtienneK wrote:
| I have a TKL for work and and also use it to game. Having more
| space for mouse movement is great when playing games. I never
| used a numpad anyway, so I don't miss it at all.
| themagician wrote:
| I prefer a separate numpad. Always have. I like it with the
| loud clicky switches because I can hear a double tap mistake.
| You can also then move the main keyboard over and use one hand
| on the arrows and really blaze through a spreadsheet.
|
| 10/10 would recommend a separate numpad. Also good for macros
| in games or Photoshop or whatever.
| jseliger wrote:
| I don't know about his keyboards, but many now have meta
| switches to turn the ~jkl; block area into a num pad. Then you
| don't have to move your right hand to input numbers. Left hand
| holds the meta key; right hand inputs numbers. On my Kinesis
| Advantage 3, I think the number 1 or 2 meta key on the left
| side of the board is set up this way.
| littlelady wrote:
| 1. I have narrow shoulders, switching to a smaller keyboard has
| dramatically decreased the amount of shoulder and elbow pain I
| had.
|
| 2. I almost never do number entry, but if I do I have a
| dedicated number pad.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| Many keyboards allow you to map additional layers, so if you
| want a numpad, it's pretty trivial to put one in the place your
| hand already is, instead of moving your hand over.
| [deleted]
| peepee1982 wrote:
| They _do_ take up a lot of space between the right hand and the
| mouse.
|
| I sometimes try to go back to full size keyboard but I just
| can't take it for more than a few hours. It's just too
| uncomfortable. I'd love to have a keyboard with the numpad on
| the left side.
|
| If I were a lefty with regards to mousing I'd use a full size
| keyboard and be happy.
| zigzag312 wrote:
| Classic keyboard is too wide. Holding a mouse next to it puts
| strain on your shoulder.
|
| I use separate keypad for number entry (not this one exactly,
| but you get the idea): https://www.amazon.com/MOTOSPEED-
| Mechanical-Portable-Backlig...
| huimang wrote:
| I don't enter numbers frequently enough that I need one, and I
| prefer the closer mouse distance of a smaller keyboard.
|
| If the board has QMK/remappable firmware, then they can add a
| virtual layer that does have a numpad. That's what I did for my
| Let's Split keyboard.
| VBprogrammer wrote:
| I particularly hate number pads on laptop keyboards because
| they put the touch pad right where my wrist occasionally
| touches as I type.
|
| I've used the old Mac 104 key aluminium wired keyboard for
| about 10 years now. I originally used it with Linux and now
| with MacOS at work and my home Windows PC. I've occasionally
| had minor difficulties with mapping but nothing insurmountable.
| elyobo wrote:
| Less ergonomic for people that don't do a lot of number entry -
| I'm a dev, not an accountant, I never used the number entry
| when I had it.
|
| The MS Sculpt (in the article) comes with a number pad as well,
| I've had it for years and left the number pad in the drawer.
| sime2009 wrote:
| * reduces the distance from keyboard home row to mouse
|
| * less desk real estate needed
|
| * many of us aren't doing much number entry at all
| gorjusborg wrote:
| Also, the number pad is pretty useless to me. I am not a
| cashier or accountant. The top row is fine fine for
| programming.
| bityard wrote:
| People who work at all with ipv4 networks (devops, sre,
| sysadmin, netadmin) find themselves entering IP addresses
| on most regular days.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I just bought a little mechanical keypad kit off
| alliexpress, nice alu case, bluetooth... I drag it down
| when I need it, which is mostly for when I'm doing CAD.
| Symbiote wrote:
| If the IP addresses usually have the same prefix (or two-
| three prefixes) you could program that prefix to a simple
| key combination on many mechanical keyboards.
|
| Even with weird combinations, like holding '1' and
| pressing '9' to autotype '192.168.0.'.
| jrockway wrote:
| The numberpad needs abcdef and : to be IPv6 ready.
| Symbiote wrote:
| Here you go: https://ipv6buddy.com/
| jrockway wrote:
| That is incredible!
| jethro_tell wrote:
| Or they don't, I've worked on fleets from 10-1,000,000
| hosts just use auto configured DNS like a normal person.
|
| If you're using IPs there something wrong with your
| process.
| tornadofart wrote:
| ... or you're working in an environment where it's
| industry norm that production-crucial devices (embedded
| devices, PLCs etc) have fixed IPs. In steel plant
| automation for example. What is "normal" may vary
| dramatically across industries.
| doubled112 wrote:
| I am a sysadmin who thought I wanted a numpad, but it
| turns out I want the desk space and ability to toss the
| keyboard to the side more.
| FrankoDelMar wrote:
| As someone that prefers the number pad, I've never seen this
| mentioned: the enter key is extremely accessible from my
| (right) mouse hand, it's on the bottom right of the keyboard --
| I can't miss it. In a TKL, I would have to pass over the arrow
| keys on my way to the return carriage key.
| lloeki wrote:
| Distance to mouse means I either have to stretch my arm in
| long-term unhealthy positions leading to shoulder, neck, and
| upper back pain, or offset the keyboard and have the non-keypad
| not front and center.
|
| Typing numbers on a single row is not an issue for me, so
| numpad brings me little benefits and significant drawbacks.
| superhuzza wrote:
| I'm a designer and primarily use my mouse + keyboard shortcuts.
| Keyboards with numpads push my mouse position further out
| right, which is actually quite awkward on the shoulder (it has
| to be twisted outwards). With a tenkeyless board, my shoulders
| and forearms are straight.
|
| I would consider a separate numpad so it can be moved around if
| needed, but that need never really comes up for me.
| morjom wrote:
| Keyboards with numpads on the opposite side exist. Sometimes
| called a left handed keyboard or in the mechanical keyboard
| world, "southpaw".
| wiredfool wrote:
| Mice can go on the left.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| It's hard to work cross-handed though
| SpikyBlackHard wrote:
| It sounds bad but if you're using the mouse a lot you should
| try splitting the board and placing the mouse between the
| halves. For shoulders it's the best typing and mousing
| position I can imagine. Although to be honest /didn't/
| imagine it, someone whom I admire recommended it and even so
| it only took on the second attempt. And... it hasn't made me
| need a numpty yet.
| baz00 wrote:
| I don't have one and it's annoying and not annoying.
|
| Annoying because, yes entering numbers is a problem.
|
| Not annoying because the mouse is closer.
| bigbison19 wrote:
| The real pro move is using a keyboard with the numpad on the
| left side (southpaw). This decreases distance from normal
| typing hand position to the mouse while also keeping a numpad
| and giving you the ability to control the numpad w/ the left
| hand while mousing around w/ the righthand for data entry in
| apps like excel.
| mjrpes wrote:
| As a southpaw who uses the mouse on the left side I've never
| realized the advantage I've had all these years with this
| setup. I use numpad + mouse all the time and it does save a
| lot of time. Almost makes up for having to change the default
| WASD key bindings in every game I've played.
| default-kramer wrote:
| Early in my career, I just moved the mouse to my left hand
| and kept everything else the same. It was super easy to get
| used to and easy to replicate whenever I have to use some
| shared workstation.
| infecto wrote:
| Depends on what you are doing of course.
|
| Cannot speak to the fashion side of it but my original
| motivator to move to a keypad less was to reduce the distance
| of the mouse to my typing space. I do not do any type of data
| entry and rarely type numbers with enough frequency to require
| it.
| darkteflon wrote:
| Same for me. The shorter distance seems to put substantially
| less strain on my wrists and shoulder. Can't imagine sitting
| in front of a tenkey for hours at a time now.
| pcurve wrote:
| While I do miss the number pads it was leading me to bad
| posture and messing up my back. I like how some keyboards
| have detached numberpad but they are rare.
| asmor wrote:
| Southpaw keyboards (with lefthand numpads) also exist,
| but they're even more rare.
| darkteflon wrote:
| Yeah I put a wireless numpad to the left of the keyboard
| when I need it - mainly just for Blender and Excel.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| I found a Microsoft Sidewinder keyboard that let you
| modularly unhook the Num Pad and move it to the left as an
| option, and having a left side Num Pad has been a wonder for
| gaming, not just the closer distance between the home row and
| the mouse, but also a few games I have taken some small
| advantage from the closer distance for the left hand from
| "WASD position" to the Num Pad for commands/macros or even
| the naturalness in games that support it of using the "WASD
| hand" for Num Pad arrows. I'm now surprised left hand Num Pad
| isn't more common in keyboard form factors. Modular is
| particularly handy because there are still mouse-less data
| entry scenarios where it is nice to have it on right hand
| because left is busy with Tab and other accelerator keys.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| I've used a couple different "1800 compact"-ish keyboards for
| more than a decade now, where you use NumLock to toggle the
| right-hand side keys between a numpad and arrow keys +
| Del/Ins/Home/etc. It gives you most of the keypadless
| benefit.
|
| First one I had was a CoolerMaster Storm Quickfire TK, now
| I'm on a Keychron K4V2. I actually liked the TK better, but
| it's completely worn out and I couldn't seem to find a
| similar layout on a new keyboard.
| wiredfool wrote:
| I moved the mouse to the left.
|
| Went through a lot, trackballs, 2 mice, narrow keyboards, but
| the left hand mouse was the one that fixed the biomechanical
| issues, and they haven't returned in 20+ years.
| larperdoodle wrote:
| I type in a 2FA code a few times a day and that's enough to
| justify it for me. Really hate typing in numbers without one
| rtkwe wrote:
| Some of the fancier ones will have layers where you can
| turn part of they keyboard directly into a number pad if
| you're mostly typing just numbers. Best of both worlds.
| ses1984 wrote:
| is a separate numpad an option?
| koromak wrote:
| For the real luxury stuff, there aren't great options for a
| 95%+ layout. And they're typically more expensive without being
| as "high quality". The luxury keyboard world is very focused on
| small form factor.
|
| The only time I miss it is gaming. Flight/Space sims, Factorio,
| things like that really benefit from a numpad. Otherwise, I'm
| not typing numbers enough to care.
| MayeulC wrote:
| Ortholinear or orthocolumnar layouts are much easier to
| touchtype with IME, this is also the layout of a numpad
| (straight rows, not a "typewriter" layout with staggered rows).
| I'm not sure why those are not popular, even among "keyboard
| enthusiasts". Heck, even among gamers: I can play from my home
| row comfortably, and have plenty of keys on both sides of my
| hand.
|
| Anyway, I'm currently using an Ergodox EZ and it's very simple:
| I have a numpad "layer" activated with a key. The keyboard
| already has the right layout, so activating this layer with the
| left hand lets me quickly enter a number with my right hand
| (from the home row).
| wussboy wrote:
| As a committed number pad user for years, the solution you've
| used (and that I have used) has done away with my need for a
| discreet number pad altogether. I have one layer that turns
| the right side into a number pad, and another layer that
| turns it into a VIM cursor control pad. After all these years
| of typing on an Ergodox in this way and dreaming of a
| separate number pad, it turns out I had what I wanted all
| along and can't leave it now.
| monooso wrote:
| The Miryoku layout [1] has a dedicated number layer which turns
| the left half into a number pad. Practical (once you get used
| to it) _and_ portable.
|
| [1] https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku
| Zambyte wrote:
| Or the best of both worlds: put your numpad on another layer at
| the home row. Press a modifier key with one hand, and enter
| numbers with the other.
| srndsnd wrote:
| I do this on my Planck, and have aligned the numbers to have
| both a row of digits, and intersecting 789, have the layout
| of a conventional number pad on the rows below. I feel like I
| have more flexibility and control on a keyboard with fewer
| keys than I have ever used before this!
| BeFlatXIII wrote:
| I prefer a separate numpad for RSI reasons. Small keyboard with
| the mouse next to it and numpad either on the left or on the
| far side of the rodent.
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _If it lives on a desk, why not splash out the small amount
| extra to make number entry much easier._
|
| Because it's bad ergonomics, if you're right-handed. It puts
| the mouse too far to the right.
|
| And I've been using computers for decades but can't recall a
| single time I ever did numeric "data entry".
|
| That just feels like a relic of when office workers were
| entering amounts from stacks of printed invoices by hand.
| serial_dev wrote:
| Exactly.
|
| I try to use my keyboard whenever possible, but sometimes
| reaching to my mouse is just easier. Moving my hand 5 inches
| is already bad, but having to move it 10-15 inches every time
| I want to use the mouse is terrible.
|
| And all for what? For having to enter a phone number or
| credit card number once a month into some form? The tradeoff
| is not worth it for most people.
|
| As a programmer, I don't need a numpad very often, having
| long strings of numbers are not very common in my field.
| Sure, sometimes I need to write numbers, but they are one or
| two character long, and having them above the keys is better
| experience as I don't need to move my hand so far.
| Clamchop wrote:
| There are compact designs that I find reasonable, though I'm
| sure not everyone will agree, which is fine! I'm using a
| Leopold fc-980m right now. It and it's variants are my
| favorite layout that I've used so far.
|
| But I do use my tenkey pretty often and want it around.
| someplaceguy wrote:
| My unhealthy relationship with keyboards came to an end as soon
| as I bought my first Keychron keyboard with a knob (Q-series).
|
| After using this keyboard, I can't imagine ever buying another
| keyboard without a knob. It's really great to control your audio
| volume with an appropriate hardware control rather than pressing
| the same key 15 times in a row like an idiot or fiddling around
| with the mouse.
|
| You can configure the knob (or any key) to do different things
| with different key combinations, at the hardware level even (with
| the Via tool), so you don't have to configure multiple OSes one-
| by-one to do the same thing. I've configured Alt+Knob rotation to
| control my screen brightness, which I adjust multiple times per
| day. You can also configure it to control the zoom, or move the
| mouse, etc.
|
| The knob also functions as an additional key if you press it
| downwards. I think by default it is configured to mute (which
| makes sense, since by default a knob rotation without any other
| key combination controls the audio volume).
|
| When you go look for keyboards with a knob you won't find many,
| and the Keychron keyboards (Q-series and Q Pro-series, the latter
| being both wired and wireless), are really the best there is
| AFAIK (unless you create your own, perhaps).
| racl101 wrote:
| Might I ask ... What other practical uses are there for knobs
| besides sound volume?
| someplaceguy wrote:
| Their own product page mentions "zooming in/out, adjusting
| screen brightness, brush size, volume, selecting video clips
| or photos, or backlight hue". Someone here mentioned
| adjusting parameters in audio software. I can add that it can
| also serve as a replacement for the mouse wheel in some
| cases. Another cool use is controlling the knobs in the MCP
| panels (i.e. the autopilot controls) of aircraft in flight
| simulators, if you don't already have better hardware.
|
| But really, in general, anything that would require pressing
| the same key a variable number of times in a row might
| benefit from a knob control, especially if it makes sense to
| do the same thing in some "opposite" direction. And
| especially if you do that multiple times per day. So it kind
| of depends on how you use your computer.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| You could use it to scrub through videos, scroll pages, zoom
| in or out, scroll through undo/redo history, etc.
| peepee1982 wrote:
| Can you configure the knob to hold down the left mouse button
| when you turn it and move either up/right or down/left
| diagonally?
|
| If yes, it would be great for adjusting parameters in Audio
| Workstations. If not, well ... I guess I'm out, sadly.
| someplaceguy wrote:
| I believe so, but I'm not 100% sure as I haven't tried that
| specific configuration.
|
| See this URL and search for "Programmable Knob":
|
| https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q6-qmk-custom-
| mec...
|
| If you go down a bit, you'll see you can program a knob
| rotation (in one direction or the other) to perform a macro,
| including key combinations. I'm pretty sure there are also
| key designations for mouse movements.
|
| That said, you might not be able to adjust the granularity of
| the mouse movement very well (not sure, really).
| bjoli wrote:
| I have the same experience but with a razer huntsman v2
| dampened reds. I modded it (silicone in the bottom, some extra
| weight (coins in the silicone), extra foam, some rubber, fixed
| the stabs, lube and force break mod).
|
| I never thought I would abandon my Matias quiet click (which is
| still the only tactile tactile switch being produced) but here
| I am typing on a friggin gaming keyboard.
|
| Whenever I move to a house where I can have my computer far
| away from my family my old 122 key model f will come out
| though. I spent so much time restoring it that I don't think I
| could not not use it.
| gainda wrote:
| i use the gmmk pro myself and i really enjoy the knob. i ended
| up buying a second one just for work bc they weigh a ton and i
| wasn't going to constantly lug it around
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| I liked Glorious, and bought 2 of their keyboards. But I feel
| REALLY burned by the original GMMK.
|
| * The metal shell has very sharp edges, which has damaged
| every surface it's been on.
|
| * The quality of the cord is very low, and is terribly frayed
| now
|
| * The silver accents on the edges appear to be very thin, and
| have worn off and made the whole thing look dingy
|
| I don't think I'll buy another of their products. Maybe the
| GMMK Pro is better, but it's also a lot more expensive.
| gainda wrote:
| totally understandable and if that happened to me i would
| also be very averse to trying the pro (but this is my first
| product with them). thankfully the quality hasn't let me
| down so far. my only mistake was trying a pre-lubed option
| on one just for the heck of it and it was def over-lubed.
| someplaceguy wrote:
| You know what? I really didn't need to know that there are
| other high-quality mechanical keyboards with a knob... [just
| kidding obviously :)]
|
| Anyway, thanks for the info! Unfortunately the GMMK PRO
| doesn't seem to have the layouts I prefer, but I'll keep an
| eye on future products!
| hinkley wrote:
| My old speaker set had a knob so I didn't need one. Now my
| monitors have a knob but I'd have to fiddle a bunch of things
| to make those behave as a volume.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| I'm seriously considering a QMK kb from them for their ability
| to hotswap caps in and out. Ideally, I'd like a mechanical kb
| with silent switches that are nice and quiet.
| elyobo wrote:
| The MS Sculpt keyboard is great, the weird mouse that comes with
| it too.
| pashariger wrote:
| Pro tip: I use a mix of Mac and Windows with Apple's magic
| keyboard. The way I fixed the key layout issue was to swap the
| mapping of the CMD and CTRL keys on the Windows machine. (used a
| utility called SharpKeys, but Windows may now have a built in way
| to do this) It feels pretty much seamless. I'm also using the
| magic trackpad on Windows - the ability to pinch zoom, pan and
| scroll is just as functional and awesome as it is on the Mac.
| tqwhite wrote:
| PS, I have never been able to understand the Windows control
| key placement. You have to use it all the time but it's off to
| the far side. It has to be pressed with the tiniest, weakest
| finger.
|
| I'm mostly a Mac guy but have spent lots of time using Windows
| and I still have to pause to place my finger on the control
| key. For the same thing, I press the command key on my Mac with
| my thumb. I can't miss it, my fingers naturally spread out over
| the keyboard for the second keypress and my thumb is strong.
|
| After many years, it still seems goofy to me.
| bloopernova wrote:
| Remap caps lock to control. Should make your life a little
| bit easier.
| konfusinomicon wrote:
| once you go split your never gonna quit
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Best keyboard I ever had was the Logitech Ultra-X. There's
| nothing "cool" about it, it used scissor switches was full size,
| but holy crap was it ever a delight to type on.
|
| Felt a lot like you know, a ~2000s thinkpad keyboard, low profile
| concave caps, like how laptops felt before every laptop became a
| crappy macbook clone with flat keycaps. It went out of production
| like a decade or more ago and nothing has been close to the same
| ever since.
| koromak wrote:
| I splurged and bought a 400$ keyboard. Its so stupid and I love
| it so much. It feels like a piece of heavy machinery.
|
| I'd say the mechanicalkeyboard crowd is a little more unhealthy.
| People in that world drop thousands a year on keyboards they'll
| use twice.
| eYrKEC2 wrote:
| I've seen people drop $120k on a Ford Raptor truck and then
| never put a single load of lumber, bark, or dirt in the bed.
| japhyr wrote:
| Which one did you get?
| koromak wrote:
| Mode Envoy, all copper internals. Not 400$, but with extra
| switches and keycaps its around there. I love the look and
| feel. The sound is a little thin, and I find the "lattice
| block" mounting system to be basically irrelevant marketing
| material, at least with a heavy plate.
|
| Still highly recommend though.
| grumblingdev wrote:
| FYI: You can put a low-profile mechanical keyboard on top of your
| MacBook built-in keyboard and it works great.
|
| I use the Keychron K1 Pro with Brown Gateron switches. It's an
| 80% (ten-key-less / TKL). I needed this one because I use the
| right shift key a lot and it has a full-size one whereas the 75%
| is shortened.
|
| You get used to the slightly different layout very quickly. You
| might swap back and forth a bit but when you go to bed you will
| start dreaming about typing on it. You will even enjoy doing
| typing races just to press the keys.
|
| Another new one just released is the NuPhy Air75V2.
|
| It's a real addiction!
| ddanieltan wrote:
| I've been very happy with my Keychron K3 pro so far. I'm quite
| surprised there aren't more options for low profile mechanical
| keyboards (besides Keychron and Nuphy) as I always though the
| portability of a keyboard as 1 of the most important features
| for modern day usage and commuting.
| grumblingdev wrote:
| For me its being able to use the trackpad on my MacBook at
| the same time.
|
| I am on the hunt to find more low-profile models.
| fadedsignal wrote:
| Nuphy Air75v2 is the best. Looking forward to receive mine in
| few days!
| grumblingdev wrote:
| FYI: The shipping date was pushed back - check the website.
| walthamstow wrote:
| Love the Keychron. I wanted a mech keyboard without getting
| lost in the whole world. My one requirement was bluetooth and
| the Keychron was the cheapest, non-ugly option that had it.
| TKL, with F-keys but no numpad, is the ideal size for me.
| Looking at the NuPhy now...
| grumblingdev wrote:
| I ordered the NuPhy with Cowberry and Aloe linear switches so
| I have a more quiet keyboard I can use at night. I am lost :D
| beauHD wrote:
| > Firstly the board is completely wireless
|
| What are people's thoughts on wireless keyboards? For me they're
| potentially leaky and it's trivial to intercept the keystrokes
| via EMF capture. My threat model is such that any bad actor can
| do an EMF capture and glean master passphrases and other
| sensitive data. So I avoid them. No radios, wired only.
| huimang wrote:
| Nice article but this isn't an unhealthy relationship at all.
| They haven't gone down the rabbit hole of r/mechanicalkeyboards
| and/or r/ergomechkeyboards, or even built their own keyboard.
| daft_pink wrote:
| I literally have at least 20 different mechanical keyboards and
| about 4 on each desk at any different time.
|
| My wife used to ask why I need so many keyboards, because I only
| have two hands. But she backed off when I replied with why does
| she need so many shoes when she only has two feet.
| pca006132 wrote:
| Unhealthy relationship with keyboards? Comparing with the
| r/MechanicalKeyboards or r/ErgoMechKeyboards people this
| relationship is more like divorced...
|
| I added python binding and ended up being on of the devs for
| https://github.com/elalish/manifold because OpenSCAD is too slow
| for my modeling (I am quite impatient). Optimizing my keyboard
| for months with more than 5 complete rebuilds to optimize my
| design (looks like this: https://i.redd.it/xtf0f54mt7ya1.jpg),
| and is afraid of open sourcing it because my code looks too bad
| :(
| bschwindHN wrote:
| That's funny, I started a CadQuery alternative in Rust after I
| created a keyboard and wanted a case for it. Crazy what a
| simple input device will make you learn!
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| Hey how do you like the tented thumb cluster? Have you used the
| boards with untended one? not Ergodox but something with an
| actually decent thumb cluster?
|
| Also - open source it!! Ppl will be def very thankful and the
| code quality is secondary VS not open sourcing (if you were so
| inclined).
|
| I am def very interested in that cluster design - how you
| managed it on PCB level
| bdcravens wrote:
| I've played around with so many keyboards, but I'm at a point now
| where workflow is more important to me. Personally I find the MX
| Keys to be the best keyboard I've ever put my hands on, but I
| really like the fingerprint reader in the Apple keyboards. (One
| day I may take on the project of extracting the fingerprint
| reader: https://hackaday.com/2022/12/26/standalone-touch-id-for-
| your...)
| tqwhite wrote:
| Fingerprint reader on keyboard == AWESOME
| zigzag312 wrote:
| I love having a narrow keyboard (due to ergonomics), but I wish
| that at least some models would be a row deeper and keep the
| function keys.
| rewmie wrote:
| > (...) I wish that at least some models would be a row deeper
| and keep the function keys.
|
| I think you might be looking for a keyboard form factor called
| 75% keyboard, or even a tenkeyless.
| zigzag312 wrote:
| I had one 75% keyboard, but didn't like that extra column on
| the right. Now I have a custom build (6x14 keys) keyboard
| (much better IMHO).
| rewmie wrote:
| > Now I have a custom build (6x14 keys) keyboard (much
| better IMHO).
|
| That sounds cool. Can you share more details about that?
| baz00 wrote:
| That's hardly any. I think I get 9 months out of a keyboard.
|
| Currently using a Cherry Stream TKL. Probably the best keyboard
| I've had for years and it was dirt cheap.
| javier_e06 wrote:
| I never understood the Mac keyboards. For me a are a sensory
| deprivation chamber. I am wielding a ROG Falchion Green Cherry MX
| Gaming Keyboard. Is a backlit keyboard with good feedback and
| sound. But there is a hollow sound to the keys that is not ideal.
| My favorite keyboard I cannot use because is not backlit. The
| CoolerMaster Storm QuickFire Rapid - Tenkeyless. The keys are so
| smooth to the touch and there is a slight high pitch to the keys
| action sound. Very solid action. My precious. I love it. I cannot
| use it in the dark. It is a discontinued model. :(
| japhyr wrote:
| My favorite keyboards are not backlit, and I was frustrated to
| have to put them aside after sunset. I ended up getting a small
| battery powered light and attaching it to the bottom of my
| desk. It shines on my lap, and lets me use non-backlit
| keyboards without any other lights on.
|
| Is that an option for you?
| tqwhite wrote:
| I put it on the bottom edge of my monitor, on the back, just
| peeking out enough to illuminate my keyboard.
| have_faith wrote:
| > I never understood the Mac keyboards
|
| I actually prefer them to most keyboards. I wish I could make
| the full size one tenkeyless, not a fan of the cramped smaller
| one.
| bbkane wrote:
| I wish I could turn the smaller one into a split keyboard.
| me_me_me wrote:
| > My favorite keyboard I cannot use because is not backlit
|
| Out of curiosity, why not?
| javier_e06 wrote:
| Because they are all compact keyboards so some of keys have
| multiple functions and not in the usual places so at night I
| don't want to turn of the lights.
| rcarr wrote:
| I went down the split keyboard rabbit hole for a bit, starting
| with a ZSA moonlander followed by a corne and then a ferris sweep
| but ultimately came to the conclusion that it's just too much
| hassle. The former was way too bulky to take out and about and I
| couldn't find a layout on the latter two where I could navigate
| quickly - be that around my mac using stuff like "cmd+tab",
| "cmd+`" or around my editor using the cmd+arrow keys. The lack of
| keys meant you had to start using layers and everything was just
| slower. The latter two also moved about on the table a lot which
| was annoying.
|
| The only thing I'd consider trying in the future would be
| something like a Felix because you hardly have to sacrifice any
| keys. I'd only get one with low profile chocs or ideally Kaihl
| scissor switches, but these don't seem to have really made their
| way into the custom keyboard scene. Chocs plus the case still
| sits significantly higher than the Magic Keyboard which is bad
| for the wrists unless you've got some kind of wrist pad to make
| up the distance from the table.
|
| I've settled on using a Protoarc full-size folding keyboard which
| I'm seriously impressed with. Typing experience is almost
| identical to the full size Magic Keyboard but it costs a quarter
| of the price and is way more portable. I'm surprised that I
| always see the Arteck keyboard being used in videos and photos
| because I tried another folding keyboard with a similar layout
| and having to use the function button to hit escape and other
| keys was super annoying.
|
| Protoarc link for anyone interested: https://amzn.eu/d/iEGRsCC
| trey-jones wrote:
| I'm a simple man. At work I have a Cherry Stream. At home I have
| a Cherry Stream. I also have a backup on hand (Cherry Stream).
| Two are black and one is white. The keyboard I had before my
| first Cherry Stream was mechanical. It was fine, but way too
| noisy. I still don't get the fuss about mechanical keyboards.
| apocalyptic0n3 wrote:
| I really wish there were more options out there with the Apple
| keyboard layout on the bottom row, notably with the right edge of
| the Command and X keys aligned. The Magic Keyboard is so
| comfortable to use on a Mac but the typing experience could
| definitely be improved.
| netcruiser wrote:
| That's nothing. I have 8 spare keyboards I still haven't used.
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| Had a Logitech G-413 mechanical keyboard - it was lovely until
| the keycaps like ALT Left Shift and Left Control started fading
| after 2 years of heavy daily use - not very impressed and a
| warranty claim was not worth it also could not source keycaps for
| the weirdo Romer G switches they use.
|
| Gave up and thought about a Keychron K8 but was weary of the
| small form factor so I settled on a Logitech MX Keys as well.
| otikik wrote:
| This person might enjoy the Keychron K1. I have used mine for
| many years. It's a bit less "low profile" than a mac keyboard,
| but the difference is not enough to require different finger
| movement - I get used to the different height in minutes.
|
| https://www.keychron.com/collections/all-keyboards/products/...
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| Thanks for the recommendation, the keychron K1 is definitely
| something I've been looking at closely. I've heard some
| complaints about the bluetooth connectivity not being great.
|
| They recently announced a budget friendly version the C3 Pro
| that's wired (USB-C) only that looks like it might actually
| satisfy my requirements.
| otikik wrote:
| The K1 has a "cable mode" in addition to "bluetooth", I have
| been using it with a wire since the beginning
| test1235 wrote:
| I think that keychron is the one I woulda got if I hadn't gone
| for a filco convertible tkl
|
| https://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/filco-convertible-2-tenk...
| Brybry wrote:
| I went from a low profile scissor switch keyboard to a K5 Pro
| and, while it's not the same, I'm also happy with the outcome.
|
| There's still some relearning because key placement is
| _slightly_ different (sometimes I hit spacebar instead of left
| alt /command).
|
| Also, I think the MX Keys that he likes is flat (ortholinear?)
| and the K-series has a slight stagger to the keys (but I also
| didn't find it to be an issue).
| jodrellblank wrote:
| I have a slightly different keyboard relationship; I used to
| browse the Typing Injury FAQ of alternative keyboard designs[1]
| and fell for the idea of chording keyboards and mobile devices
| like the DataEgg[2] (I still wonder if chording could be useful
| on multitouch mobile devices), then for mechanical IBM Model M,
| then for split Microsoft Natural, then if you're going to split
| for each hand, don't half-arse it, whole-arse it with the
| DataHand[3] and its opto-magnetic switches. Then why not type
| faster like a court reporter, with Stenography and keyboards
| which support n-key rollover so they can be used with Plover[4].
|
| Actually, what I most like is a flat keyboard with full keys and
| arrows and separate F keys and numeric keypad. Because most of
| what I'm doing is not entering long-form English literature, it's
| text and key combinations and numbers and arrows and symbols and
| mouse clicks and holding a phone and anything which requires the
| concentration of a weird entry system, or needs both hands in
| just the right places, or cuts out lots of keys to look stylish
| or take up less desk space or squash keys together to fit on a
| laptop, or change the alignment of keys weirdly, or assume
| everyone has prehensile thumbs which can take 90% of the key load
| on their own, or disregard years of muscle memory for a little
| temporary fashion, are ... worse.
|
| [1] http://www.tifaq.org/keyboards.html - look at the links down
| the left side menu.
|
| [2] https://friedmanarchives.com/dataegg/index.html see also
| AgendA https://friedmanarchives.com/dataegg/History.html and
| Twiddler2 - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/HandyKey-
| Twiddler-2-Chor...
|
| [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand
|
| [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34298063
| nprateem wrote:
| Yeah and those keyboards give some of us RSI.
| jodrellblank wrote:
| Which keyboards?
| nurettin wrote:
| Found a Logitech keyboard with no missing keys next to a dumpster
| back in 2007. I took it home, cleaned it up, replaced the torn
| and tattered USB cable, been using it since then.
|
| Whenever someone complains about their keyboard Bluetooth not
| connecting, or their batteries dying, I gently raise it in the
| air and point at it.
| fossuser wrote:
| I love the HHKB - it's compact and looks/feels nice.
|
| I'm either using a variation of one of those or the macOS boards.
| nomel wrote:
| This is the only keyboard I've been interested in: DataHand
|
| Original: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand
|
| DIY: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
|
| Using a single direction for activation, requiring massive
| movements in 2d space, seems so silly. I haven't been able to
| find one, to purchase.
|
| Related, I'm still learning how to use this one, since it's the
| only non-DIY equivalent I could find (great founder btw):
| https://www.charachorder.com/products/charachorder-one
|
| It supports sequential and non-standard chords, mostly with x-y
| plane activation. Pushing down actually isn't used often.
| zapataband1 wrote:
| That's pretty cool, my Kinesis might finally have a worthy
| rival
| formvoltron wrote:
| I would go for the apple magic keyboard, except for that arrow
| key cluster. Had a macbook with those once and hated it.
|
| Good that the author pointed out the inability of removing keys
| to clean with the Logi MX. I'd have sprung for that but dislike
| anything that is potentially going to become garbage.
| tqwhite wrote:
| I used UV cure glue to put small dots on the little arrow keys.
| It totally solved the problem for me. Turns out my issue was
| that I couldn't be sure my fingers were on them and which one.
| The raised dots worked.
| morjom wrote:
| My journey so far has been (24yo):
|
| The keyboard on my dads HP laptop
|
| Generic keyboard that came with my familys first home computer
| (WinXP)
|
| A Logitech Ergo version who knows
|
| Logitech G110
|
| Logitech G15
|
| Razer Arctosa
|
| Razer Blackwidow 2013 (first mechanical)
|
| Misc. Tesoro brand keyboard
|
| Mistel Barocco MD600 (split)
|
| ROG Claymore (removable and sideswappable numpad)
|
| Keychron K3v2 <- now
|
| Next might be a printed -dactyl or moonlander.
| yonaguska wrote:
| I have a moonlander, and it's great, but now I want a dactyl.so
| make of that what you will. I got the moonlander thinking it
| would be more mobile, and it's not. it's great if you're
| looking for something finished that feels durable, but then at
| that price point- the glove80 is out and it's wireless. the zsa
| key config tool is amazing though.
| cjbprime wrote:
| > Noppoo Choc Mini
|
| Mine broke, but I have a strong emotional attachment to this
| keyboard, it's the one I was using when getting to Starcraft 2's
| Masters League for the first time :) I got the version with 30g
| Gateron Clears, which were quiet and activated by barely touching
| them. I think I got it after seeing a player I admire (Snute) was
| using it.
| choiway wrote:
| If you type a lot for a work, spending the time and money for
| better tooling is not only healthy but should be encouraged.
| Unhealthy, is when you try to track down an after market Key Cult
| for $2,000 and spend $500 on switches because you feel like you
| have to try them all.
| chrsw wrote:
| Even after all these years it's hard to beat the Microsoft
| Natural Keyboard Elite. I wish someone made a mechanical version.
| I'm typing this on a Keychron Q11 so maybe I'm in a similar boat
| as the author.
| coldpie wrote:
| Feker Alice 98! It just came out this year and it's the perfect
| replacement for the old MS Natural boards.
| tpmx wrote:
| Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro (1999) with inverted T cursor
| keys is the one to beat, IMO.
| cvccvroomvroom wrote:
| "Unhealthy" is a bit on the clickbait side. I barely have:
|
| - 2 Northgate Omnikey Ultras with ALPS switches
|
| - a Japanese RealForce with Topre 45g switches
|
| - a Patriot with Kailh Box Switches
|
| - an WASD V2 in need of a USB-C transceiver
| whatever1 wrote:
| I want a keyboard with a touchpad beneath the space bar, like the
| laptops.
|
| It is very nice to have everything in front of you and have space
| on your right / left for a paper notebook.
|
| There is nothing out there.
| Whatarethese wrote:
| Not sure if you use Mac OS but people have designed this
| https://www.printables.com/model/61596-magic-keyboard-and-tr...
| whatever1 wrote:
| Yep I have a similar one [1]. But the experience is honestly
| janky. The magic touchpad does not do palm rejection like the
| MacBooks do, and the whole thing is very thick and heavy.
|
| [1]https://www.etsy.com/listing/783328345/the-tre-o-apple-
| bluet...
| [deleted]
| ftxbro wrote:
| > I likely write a follow up post about my criteria and reserach
| and perhaps a follow up review if I end up pulling the trigger.
|
| I feel like people who use the phrase 'pulling the trigger' in
| this way have an unhealthy relationship with shopping. They are
| shopping for dopamine and they are like the ones who have a
| hundred of the same hat and when they need more dopamine they buy
| that hat again.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| You're thus far the only hacker news commenter to agree
| (somewhat) with the 'unhealthy' premise of the article.
| gainda wrote:
| until you start spending hundreds on a single board and obsess
| about switches, keycaps, materials, acoustics, etc. it is not
| unhealthy at all !
| oooyay wrote:
| > Because it's compatible with multiple OS's I use it for work on
| my company issued Macbook and personal usage on my own Linux
| machine.
|
| Underrated line in the article. I have such a problem selecting
| keyboards because I use MacOS and Linux. I have the same problem
| with KVMs as the two use two different ways of outputting a
| screen. I exclusively use Keychrons at this point for both gaming
| and work.
| pxc wrote:
| ?
|
| Just use any normal keyboard. Do nothing at all to configure
| the layout on Linux, and on Mac, configure the OS to swap the
| command and option keys for that keyboard.
| stusmall wrote:
| I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that jump out to them.
| I don't think I've ever had any OS specific functionality
| with a keyboard. Looking at the USB HID scan code list I
| can't even think what I'd want out of a keyboard that isn't
| already covered.
| pxc wrote:
| The built-in macOS functionality for remapping modifier
| keys so that 'PC' keyboards behave as expected in macOS is
| relatively new, so maybe longstanding macOS users are less
| aware of it. But third party apps did have the capability
| to retrofit that into macOS before Apple added that
| feature, as well.
| mmphosis wrote:
| I am a longstanding Mac OS X user that wishes Linux had
| _an easy way_ to remap modifier keys. For now, I 've
| settled on having keyd installed:
| /etc/keyd/default.conf [ids] *
| [main] leftalt = layer(control)
| leftcontrol = layer(alt)
|
| With AutoKey, I can swap Alt and Ctrl keys for Terminal
| apps and make my remapped [?]C and [?]V work as I expect.
| jamesgreenleaf wrote:
| It's not unhealthy until you buy a Topre.
| Lukeisun wrote:
| My coworker is really into keyboards and has gotten me somewhat
| hooked on topres. He let me borrow an HHKB at work and it is
| amazing
| cmiller1 wrote:
| I haven't bought a Topre but I did just disassemble and clean
| 108 individual ALPS switches to restore a keyboard, is that
| healthy?
| pxc wrote:
| I'm pretty happy with the keyboards I have, but I just ordered
| 8BitDo's new mechanical keyboard anyway. Some things
| distinguishing it from my other mechanical keyboards atm:
| - wireless (both Bluetooth and with a dongle) - hardware
| volume dial - two giant, programmable, external buttons
| (maybe I can use these as Emacs pedals?)
|
| It also has the kind of curvature I like on a keyboard, like the
| Model M, which none of my other keyboards with Cherry-compatible
| switches do.
|
| It's only $100 and it looks very cute. Could be a good entrypoint
| for many!
|
| https://shop.8bitdo.com/products/8bitdo-retro-mechanical-key...
| pxc wrote:
| Update! I'd actually pre-ordered the thing some time ago, and I
| was looking forward to its arrival today. I'm writing this
| message from it (incidentally, from my phone, which is where I
| usually use HN).
|
| It's quite nice! The switches felt a bit light for me at first,
| but they're really quite good. I do find myself bottoming out
| the keys as I type, but the keyboard feels decently heavy, so
| the sound of bottoming out is quite pleasant.
|
| The curvature of the keyboard is unfortunately achieved in the
| usual way for modular, Cherry-compatible keyboards, which means
| differently-shaped keycaps rather than a curved backplate as on
| a Model M. This basically achieves the effect, but it means the
| keycaps on the board are not interchangeable, and it makes
| finding alternative keycaps a bit trickier.
|
| The amber power light is gorgeous!
|
| Overall I am very happy with it and glad to have a wireless
| option among my mechanical keyboards. :)
| ubermonkey wrote:
| That seems like an entirely healthy progression!
|
| I used a Kinesis Advantage -- the goofy one, with the inverts
| wells for each hand -- for like 12 or 15 years. It's GREAT ...
| but it's big.
|
| A couple years ago I got a Keychron to use with my iPad, and
| because it was shiny, though, and it's comfy enough that I've
| been using it as my daily driver since soon after. I intended to
| change things up periodically, but it's so nice and compact, and
| the switches feel so nice, that I haven't gone back to the
| Kinesis.
|
| However, the Keychron is LOUD, so I also have a compact Apple
| keyboard I swap in for notetaking on conference calls. :)
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| > However I have a few personal gripes: Firstly the board is
| completely wireless, which means I have to charge it via USB-C.
| As I'm sat practically tethered to my desk all day a permanently
| wired option would actually be more convenient as it would save
| me to the hassle of charging.
|
| Does anyone else find this to be a pretty strange statement? If
| he doesn't mind the wire anyway, then just keep it plugged in via
| USB so it's always charged.
| dartos wrote:
| Maybe since it has the wireless feature he feels compelled to
| use it, but wouldn't if he didn't have that option.
|
| Maybe?
| dstudzinski wrote:
| I will share my experience with keyboards. Maybe someone of you
| will find it useful.
|
| I was thinking about ergodox when I wanted to 'open' my rib
| cage/chest but I was afraid of uncomfortable position of thumb
| section so I chosen Redox wireless. I was not able to think about
| using standard keyboard again (but I had to used to it for some
| time - it's like juggling at the beginning - you have to 'split'
| your hands). Not split keyboard started to be strange to use
| because of strange position of hands but Redox was still quite
| big to carry around with laptop (but QMK and layers are great).
|
| Then I found Ferris Sweep which I created by myself (I had to
| learn how to solder after 20 years of not touching soldering iron
| but I was able to create working keyboard in 4h doing it first
| time). It's another huge jump for me. Now when I switch to build
| in keyboard I feel how much I have to move my fingers.
|
| ZMK is also good. My ferris is connected with bluetooth so I can
| easily use it with multiple devices (and phones) in the same time
| (like two laptops because switching is very quick).
|
| When I travel I can put my split keyboard on the sides of the
| macbook and use touchpad in the middle. It's similar how I use it
| at home but I use magic trackpad in the middle. I use Kailh Low
| Profile Choc Pink Pro Switches instead of Cherry MX Brown which I
| had in Redox and I just bottom them on writing (instead of using
| tactile effect). Keyboard is really small.
|
| The next step some day will be probably something like that
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKfeJrRIcxw&t=1s where you can
| adjust keys to your palm. I can image that it can be helpful for
| people with some disabilities or rheumatoid arthritis.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| KBParadise V60 here. I got mine with Cherry MX Greens, but I
| don't think they offer them with those anymore. Nice and clacky.
| zvmaz wrote:
| I recently got a Keychron Q11 split keyboard. The quality of the
| keyboard is so good that I think the people involved in making
| these keyboards must be truly keyboard lovers.
| Jackevansevo wrote:
| If I ever went back down the split keyboard route, I think I'd
| have to go all the way and get something ergonomic like the
| ergodox boards.
| EtienneK wrote:
| Loving my Q3. Stock it's fine, but after I modding it quite
| extensively (new switches, keycaps, tape mod, foam, etc.) it's
| been amazing!
| Filligree wrote:
| Are the keys less squeaky now? I've got an older Keychron, and
| it's great ... so long as I'm wearing headphones.
| chrsw wrote:
| I have a Keychron Q11 as well. I don't notice any key
| squeaking. It's a great keyboard, no serious flaws from what
| I can tell so far. My biggest issue with this keyboard is it
| doesn't have a tenting kit from the manufacturer.
| moondowner wrote:
| The Q and Q Pro series are a dream come true.
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